May 30, 2020
Gov. Tim Walz Press Conference on 5th Night of Protests
Minnesota Governor Tim Walz held a news briefing on the fifth night of protests in Minneapolis & St. Paul. Walz urged Minnesotans to respect the 8 pm curfew. Read the full press conference transcript here.
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Governor Tim Walz: (00:00)
… Doing the things they need to do necessary and I’ll be deploying on their missions to make sure that they’re providing support to firefighters and all the things they need to do to provide safety and security and restore those basic things that make Minnesota a great state, that make life secure for people so that they can enjoy the things that they want to do.
Governor Tim Walz: (00:20)
Today I also signed an executive order, the Executive Order 2067. It authorizes commissioner of public safety to use adjoining states and adjoining state resources to us. We have worked on that on the national guard side, the work we did with the federal government to help us with that. Now this allows us to work with cities and counties.
Governor Tim Walz: (00:39)
This ever evolving situation, Minnesotans, I think you saw that today. I watched, and I think many of you did. I watched the peaceful protest in South Minneapolis today, a clear sense of community, a clear focus on the murder of George Floyd, a clear focus on justice, and the sense of justice must be served. I saw black, white, brown, and indigenous joining community and do it in a way that exercises the freedoms that we hold most dear, their First Amendment rights and their willingness to try and change their city and their state for the better.
Governor Tim Walz: (01:22)
Tonight is different. Tonight will be mixed in with folks that don’t care did not build our businesses and do not share our values. I’m asking each and every Minnesotan to be clear about this. These are not our neighbors. These are not the people that put in all of the work to build Lake Street, to build community. So Minnesotans, you must stay in place tonight. In approximately 20 minutes, the major freeway systems in Minnesota will be closed. Stay off the roads, stay at home tonight so that we can remove the folks, restore order to our streets. Don’t go out, don’t go walking, don’t drive. We don’t want innocent people who simply want to express their frustration and rage over a situation that has ignited this across the country. Parents call your children, give them that call. Friends, call other friends. Don’t go down looking to see if this would be something to see. It’s not the place to be.
Governor Tim Walz: (02:33)
So I would ask you all and the media will… Again, we want to make sure it’s out there getting good information. And I would tell folks the coordination that has been stood up, the ability to move these operations evolves hour by hour. We have capabilities of airborne surveillance and one of our top priorities tonight, again, in making sure that we can respond as quickly as possible, especially to what has become a tactic of the folks here using arson as a means of terror and destruction, and then move. So please, don’t go out of your homes. Don’t make this more difficult. Don’t take resources away by those things the folks who are just minding their own business. If you see criminal activity or need it, of course, 911. BCA’s number, 651-793-7000.
Governor Tim Walz: (03:36)
And also I want to say something I saw before night comes in that rally. The amazing thing was in that there’s a sense of solidarity. The sense of trying to channel grief, rage, and anger into something positive. Large numbers of the people there did bring things with them to that rally. They didn’t bring improvised explosive devices. They didn’t bring firearms. They didn’t bring Molotov cocktails. They brought brooms and they brought shovels and they brought wheelbarrows to clean up for people that they didn’t even know, but know that they’re their neighbors. I can tell you that you’ll see the best of Minnesotans rising. You’ll see opportunities for people to show the best of who we are. And we simply ask for cooperation to help us re-establish order on our streets to make it clear that the force that has been put on the ground is there for the long haul, that this is not a place where violence in its any way going to step on or dilute the message that we’ve got work to do around racial injustices. We’ve got work to do to bring justice for George.
Governor Tim Walz: (04:47)
And so please know that we will do everything we can to do that. I’m proud of the people that are out there delivering that. You’re going to hear from the mayors of Minneapolis and St. Paul, working closely and in the operation center, making sure things are done the way they need to be done for their citizens. And what I’d like to do tonight is to give you a little bit of the overview of this is once again, present a Major Jon Jensen, the Adjutant General, the Minnesota National Guard.
Major Jon Jensen: (05:21)
Good evening. I’m Major General Jon Jensen, the Adjutant General, Minnesota. I’m reminded tonight that one week ago today, Minnesota guardsmen stood in six communities across our state to include Minneapolis and St. Paul. Our mission was significantly different then. A week ago today, in support of the Department of Health, we offered free community COVID-19 testing. A week later, we still stand with the citizens of Minneapolis and St. Paul. While it may be in different role, we are there for the citizens and for our two mayors.
Major Jon Jensen: (06:05)
In accordance with the governor’s full mobilization of the Minnesota National Guard, we’ve been mobilizing Minnesota guardsmen throughout the day, specifically in their local unit of assignment with future movement into the Minneapolis, St. Paul area. That effort will be ongoing through today and through tonight, and will continue until fully completed. Once completed, those soldiers and airmen can be expected to be fully integrated into the police departments in Minneapolis and St. Paul, as well as county and state resources as well. But it’s beyond that. We’re also hand in hand with our fire departments and our emergency management systems as well, fully integrated to meet the guidance of the governor while we’re fully mobilized. Thank you. At this time I’ll be followed by Mayor Frey.
Governor Tim Walz: (06:59)
Thank you, general. Thank you, mayor.
Mayor Jacob Frey: (07:06)
We saw a showing of love in Minneapolis today. Thousands of volunteers, residents, community members taking action, helping each other pick up the pieces from last night. There was pure compassion and an outpouring show of support. That’s what was on display. Those are the groups that represent Minneapolis. That is who we are. The group’s planning on being out tonight, do not support us in any way, shape or form. These are forces that run antithetical to our values, forces that over the last 48 hours have overrun our streets. I cannot tell you how completely that has broken my heart, that we are being invaded by those who use the tragic murder of George Floyd to tear at the seams of what George himself held to be most true. To break our city, that is crushing.
Mayor Jacob Frey: (08:19)
We need to hold officer Chauvin and the other three responding officers accountable. We need justice. We need systemic change, but first we need to save our city. As the governor mentioned, we are now taking extraordinary steps. Over 120 Minneapolis firefighters will be available throughout the city, ready to respond to anything that comes their way as quickly as possible. And with the support of 35 jurisdictions, officers will be active throughout our city. We will prioritize situational awareness and we will be working as part of the unified command center to respond as the situation demands. We will-
Mayor Jacob Frey: (09:03)
… command center to respond as the situation demands, we will be ready. And we know the situation will demand the very best of our first responders. The situation will demand the very best of our residents. So please Minneapolis, please, support our first responders tonight by giving them the space to protect us and stay home. Mayor Carter.
Mayor Melvin Carter: (09:32)
From the beginning of this my goal has been to provide timely and accurate information to our residents, to our constituents, to our members of the media. This morning, I shared with you arrest data received in my morning police briefing, which I later learned to be inaccurate. I have taken further steps to safeguard our ability to provide relevant and accurate information and will ensure that those steps are taken in the first place and taken in the future. And I take full responsibility for that. Looking forward, we have work to do. Tonight, tomorrow, and a foreseeable way into the future. People have asked me this week, is the arrest of Officer Chauvin enough? People have asked me this week, is the public statements from our elected leaders enough? People have asked me this week, if all four of those officers get arrested and convicted, is that enough?
Mayor Melvin Carter: (10:47)
I think they’re asking me because they know that this is a movement that I’m rooted in. I think they’re asking me because I’ve shared my own experience, as maybe one of very relatively few elected leaders in the country, who knows what it feels like to be pulled over for driving while black. Maybe they’re asking me because they know that our administration has been rooted from the beginning in working with our police department and our police chief in ensuring that we are the model of relationships between police and community across the nation and across the world. When folks ask me if those measures are enough, my answer is all the same. There’s no such thing as enough when it comes to protecting human life. There’s no such thing as enough when it comes to preserving the relationship of trust and credibility that must flow between our police officers and our community members.
Mayor Melvin Carter: (11:44)
There’s no such thing as enough when it comes to ensuring our children, that when you see someone in a badge and a uniform, that that someone is here to help you in an emergency, in a crisis or in any other situation. There’s no such place as enough when it comes to pursuing justice for George Floyd and so many of the unarmed unaggressive African American men, who we have demanded justice for. When we say there’s no such place as enough though, what that means is the responsibility is ours to act in a constructive manner. To act in an effective manner that will be effective at building forward for the future that we know that our children deserve. It’s our responsibility to act in a way that will help to make a better world. Will help to assure better relationships. Will help to usher stronger bonds between our communities and the public servants that protect and serve us.
Mayor Melvin Carter: (13:01)
Over this week, I’ve had a chance to talk to leaders in our communities of color, faith leaders across our city and state, business owners, workers, employees, and no small amount of police officers. I can tell you that every single person I’ve talked to looks at that video of George Floyd, having the life squeezed out of him, and from every officer to every CEO, to every activist in my neighborhood, we all look at that and say, that’s unacceptable. We have to do something to make a better world. My hope today and tomorrow is that our focus remains on that. My hope today and tomorrow is that our focus remains on telling the world that Mr. Floyd should still be alive today. On telling the world that those responsible for taking his life must be held accountable, all of them, not just one, but all four of them. And for telling the world that we as a city, we as a state, we as a society are redoubling our effort to ensure that we stop seeing these things happen.
Mayor Melvin Carter: (14:21)
Unfortunately, events of this week have taken our focus away from those critical missions. Events of this week have distracted us, have sought to exploit the death of Mr. Floyd for the purposes of further destroying the communities that have been most traumatized by his death. We will not accept that as normal. We will not receive that as acceptable. As I said earlier, we live in a world, we live in a city where we neither accept the death of unarmed African American men, the wrongful killing of unarmed African American men, nor do we accept the willful destruction of our neighborhoods. Those are not opposing goals, they’re one in the same. This is a moment in which we get to rehearse our shared humanity. As I talk to our neighbors, to our residents, to our advocates and everyone else, I hear some people say, even in America, the accused get a right to fair process. That, don’t rush to judgment to those officers too quickly. I hear them say, make sure that he has a chance to have fair process. Don’t be judge, jury, and executioner, make sure he has a chance to hear his say.
Mayor Melvin Carter: (15:47)
Every time I hear that it reminds me that we’re all in the same humanity. Because the other thing that I hear very loudly is a cry, a wish, a prayer, a demand for George Floyd, for Eric Garner, for Antwan Arbery, to have that same privilege. We’re in this together. We have to know that we’re in this together. We are committed to those dual missions of protecting the rights of those who peacefully protest, to demonstrate their first amendment rights. We saw that in action in a powerful way today. We are committed, just as committed to ensuring the right to Life, Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness for every resident in every single neighborhood of our community. And I look forward to demonstrating all of those commitments tonight, tomorrow and into the future. We have work to do. And I know, I know Mayor Frey knows, and I know Governor Waltz knows, that in as much as we are doubling down today to address the how, the methods that people are using out in our communities this week, that we also must address the why.
Mayor Melvin Carter: (17:13)
That we recognize that there is a legitimate why, that there is an understandable anger, that there’s an understandable frustration. And that frustration and anger will continue until we meaningfully address the why. I am here with you in that fight. I know our Governor, I know Mayor Frey are here with you in that fight. We must engage in this work in a way that will help us to build our neighborhoods, in a way that will help us to build our economy, in ways that will help us build the jobs in the neighborhoods, right in the communities that have been hardest hit by our pandemic, by economic crisis, by the trauma of the video we saw this week. And yes, by the unrest that we’ve experienced across our state and across our country over the past days, those of you-
Mayor Melvin Carter: (18:03)
… Date and across our country over the past days, those of you who, like me, want to keep the focus on George Floyd, those of you who, like me, want to keep the focus on making a better world, on ensuring that those who are responsible for the wrongful taking of life are held responsible for those actions, we must stand together today by staying home so that we can separate ourselves from those who seek to destroy. Let’s work together to create a better future. Thank you.
Speaker 7: (18:28)
Thank you, mayor.
Governor Tim Walz: (18:30)
Thank you. Mayor [inaudible 00:18:31], Frey, General Johnson. We’ll take a few questions. Right before I came over here, I was on with African American leaders, many of the elders, reverends, bishops, doctors, and many of those old enough to remember when the construction of a freeway ripped across Rondo, and it wasn’t just physical. It ripped a culture, it ripped who we were. It was an indiscriminate act that said, “This community doesn’t matter. It’s invisible. This is a convenient place for us to put a highway so we can cross over this place and go from the city to go out to the suburbs.”
Governor Tim Walz: (19:05)
Those folks told me that left a trauma, especially on young African Americans in there. I think most of us recognize, we get a handle on this thing. We’re going to bring stability back to our streets. We’re going to need to be able to rebuild, but I think most of us already have a grasp of the historical nature of this. There is a pre-George Floyd, Minnesota, and there will be a post-George Floyd, Minnesota. We get to decide what it looks like. Tom.
Governor, last night, the curfew enforcement at best was passive, at worst it was non-existent. Can you assure Minnesotans tonight? It will be far more strict. And are you prepared to make mass arrests if that’s necessary?
Governor Tim Walz: (19:47)
Yeah. And as we said again, the curfews are for the folks to stay home, to stay off the streets. I’m telling you again, stay there. Tactical situations change, and when they changed last night, I’m not going to put my people at risk. What I’m telling you tonight is, the assumption is right now, if you are on the streets past 8:00 o’clock, you are part of what is going on. It’s not going to be tolerated and we will do everything we can to make that happen. So, that will be happening. Yes.
Speaker 2: (20:12)
Governor, earlier today you asked the media that 80% of these demonstrators causing havoc were from out of town. Is that still your belief? What’s the intelligence or data for that? Because as Mayor Carter referenced, the arrest data did not reflect that.
Governor Tim Walz: (20:26)
Some of the data points are, I think we’ll find out when this is over. We’ll have a much bigger data set after tonight and that we’ll be able to see what’s happening. I certainly on this would say, whether they’re from Minnesota or not, if you’re out there doing that at night, you’re not sharing these values. You’re not sharing who we are. And I would just say this to all Minnesotans interested out there, don’t be this thing that makes you famous. Don’t have your name be published out there tomorrow that says you burned down our cities. Don’t be the one to say you destroyed that business that’s has been there for 50 years. So we’ll continue to look at it. And-
Speaker 2: (21:00)
Governor, where does that statistic come from? Where did that estimate come from?
Governor Tim Walz: (21:06)
… I get a lot of reports from what we’re hearing on the streets. Some of this is of course human intel that comes to us, and that was what we were starting to see. So we’ll see tonight whether it’s right or wrong.
Speaker 2: (21:14)
Do you believe that was the case last night, or you’re not sure at this point?
Governor Tim Walz: (21:17)
[crosstalk 00:21:17] In a fluid situation like this, I assume that it is. It’ll change tonight. And we will make sure that we’re getting as much data out as possible. My concern right now is security on that street.
Speaker 4: (21:28)
Governor, when will the people in these key flashpoint neighborhoods like 38th in Chicago, like Late Street, like University Avenue in St. Paul, when will they see police forces, the National Guard in their neighborhoods?
Governor Tim Walz: (21:47)
I want to be very clear about this, we’re not going to telegraph too much what will go on. It’s very clear on this. This is a very simple order. There’s a curfew issued by the mayors and backed by the state that you shouldn’t be on the streets tonight. And I will leave it at that. When you decide to make the decision to go outside tonight, the assumption is you’re out there to join in the wanton destruction.
Speaker 4: (22:06)
But will the presence be seen earlier than it was last night in some of these important communities?
Governor Tim Walz: (22:10)
Speaker 3: (22:12)
Does the Fusion Center still believe that 70 to 75,000 agitators are coming in from out of state tonight?
Governor Tim Walz: (22:19)
I can’t speak to that. I think one of the first things is that I think originally on this, there was a peaceful protest scheduled with a lot of our national leaders. Many of them came in earlier, they were smaller. And I think there was a change made on that. So I won’t speak directly to it, but I think it was a change more. So I think what you saw this afternoon was the thought that there would be a large peaceful protest with national figures speaking to the group. I think that situation changed by Thursday once the violence increased. So I don’t believe so.
Speaker 5: (22:47)
Governor, just saw a huge increase in the law enforcement presence at the State Capitol, both National Guard and state troopers. We saw 50 to 100 of them that appear going into the building. Is there a credible threat against the state [crosstalk 00:23:02]
Governor Tim Walz: (23:01)
I’m not going to speak to what we get right now. One of the things is we know we have a national guard armory directly down the street and some of the staging, but at this time I’m not going to speak to the individual intel.
Speaker 5: (23:11)
But are you concerned that as a big symbol in Minnesota, you want to protect the whole [crosstalk 00:23:14].
Governor Tim Walz: (23:14)
Well, we certainly will protect it and we’ll protect the others. The one thing I want to be clear of is that we’re not leaving neighborhoods behind on other things, but folks have proven that they will go after anything. They took again, libraries, public infrastructure. And so we’re ready, prepared. Yes.
Speaker 6: (23:31)
For mayor Frey, I have quick question. I’m hearing reports of people collecting picnic tables and things from their backyard to barricade off their own streets. Have you failed Minneapolis to lead them to defend themselves from these tens of thousands of people that are descending on the city?
Mayor Jacob Frey: (23:53)
We have done everything possible for Minneapolis thus far, and what was very clear very early on is that the math simply didn’t work. This wasn’t a matter of a lack of planning or poor strategy, we simply did not have the numbers in our police department to be able to respond to groups of hundred plus people at a time in many different locations all throughout the city looting and burning. So, we made the aggressive move to ask for National Guard on Wednesday. We’re very appreciative for the support. And right now we do have a cohort, a team that is ready to go tonight.
Speaker 6: (24:35)
And how are you going to tell the difference between these people who are out trying to protect their own streets and people who are [crosstalk 00:24:44].
Mayor Jacob Frey: (24:43)
Well, first let’s be very clear. We made clear in the curfew order that people are to stay home. The way we are able to tell the difference is that the people who are out are largely those who are doing wrong for our city. And so we’re making it very clear, if you care about our city, if you believe in the values that we represent, we need you to stay home. And this is not just about staying home because otherwise you’ll get arrested, this is about staying home because it is the right thing to do for Minneapolis, that’s who we are.
Speaker 6: (25:17)
What do you say to the folks are like, “I can’t stay home. I have to be at my business or it’s going to be destroyed. No one’s protecting it. But me and a few of my friends.”
Mayor Jacob Frey: (25:27)
I totally understand the concern, it is our responsibility to do everything we can to protect businesses. We do have plans in place to prevent the looting, which we’ve seen over the last several days, as much as possible, but life has to come first. Life has to come first. And if that’s the value and that’s the goal, and the first thing that they need to be doing is staying home. We’re no longer at the point where we’re for peaceful protesting. We are not at that point right now tonight. We are asking you not to protest peacefully, we are asking those people to stay home.
Speaker 7: (26:04)
Governor [inaudible 00:00:26:04].
Speaker 9: (26:05)
If I can just ask you, you mentioned at a news conference earlier today that white supremacist groups, drug cartels could be involved. You’re getting that intelligence. We are also hearing from our sources that outside groups, anarchist groups on message boards are urging people to come into Minneapolis and other communities where there have been violence, including Los Angeles, Atlanta and other cities, and that they’re looking at targeting other communities that have not been hit by the violence. Can you comment on that entry people in other communities other than St. Paul and Minneapolis be concerned here tonight?
Governor Tim Walz: (26:43)
Yeah. I think the one thing is, and I think this is good when we have public infrastructure and again, public safety, whether it be police law enforcement, EMS, or firefighters are segmented to the community, it’s community responsibilities, we have not drawn down and left places uncovered. We’ve not pulled things out where things would happen. So the city of Lake View, the city of-
Governor Tim Walz: (27:03)
Not pulled things out where things would happen. So the city of Lakeview, the city of wherever it might be, they continue to have what they have, but I think certainly these folks do do that and it’s about trying to sow misinformation, it’s trying to sow fear. And like I told so many, we’ve got a lot of folks, General Jensen’s folks who’ve tried to defend us and defendants as a nation. One of our great freedoms is security and the sense of what these people have brought is they’ve questioned our sense of security. They bought fear into our cities and what I would say is that’s the thing that rallies us together.
Governor Tim Walz: (27:32)
So we’ve been in contact with those. I think some of these folks are taking their own moves on making sure that they have the necessary things in place. So I think it’s certainly a concern to be tonight to watch. I think this is a much more concerted effort and more thought out by some of these folks, but they’re not what we have in our professionals. They are domestic terrorist and that’s, in many cases, how they’re treated.
Speaker 11: (27:59)
Governor, any update on whether or not you will accept federal help in the form of troops from President Trump? I know you’ve talked to the Department of Defense and Joint Chiefs of Staff. Any update on that?
Governor Tim Walz: (28:10)
Yeah. Yeah, here’s what I want to be clear about is, this is not about taking them because we get more. I can get more from North Dakota in half the time. I can get more by activating units that we had. Certainly if it looks like we could do that, we’re looking at every one. It is a… At this point in time, it’s not about, “Oh, you didn’t take all the support. You’d had more troops on the ground.”
Governor Tim Walz: (28:28)
They won’t be here to Monday and Tuesday, even if you requested them. We’ll look as the situation evolves, but there’s a really big move in how we work as a republic in having federalized troops on the ground. The troops that are here tonight are teachers from Willmar and store owners from [inaudible 00:28:46] and college students from Minneapolis. I think in that, in how quickly we respond, in how quickly we work together, we’re using federal assets to help us when we can. They’ve been very collaborative, but this issue of saying you’re either going to take federal [inaudible 00:29:01] or you’re not taking everything you can is a bit of a misnomer at this time.
Speaker 12: (29:06)
Governor, tell me a little bit about how the rules of engagement are going to work here. At Oakland Avenue yesterday, white SUV comes up like it’s going to ram the back of a firetruck at 1:00 in the morning. Three guards members step up between them, their rifles pointed at the windshield, their fingers on the trigger. We were within milliseconds of opening fire-
Governor Tim Walz: (29:31)
I can let General Jensen talk about what we have, but I will be very clear on this. All of our police forces and [inaudible 00:29:40] always have the right to self defense. We’re not escalating this. There has not been, thank God, an incident here, a fatal incident. So we’re trying to do the best we can. The what ifs on everything out here… And again, folks who’ve covered me for a year and a half have watched me interact with the press quite a bit. I will have to say I was a bit twinged on the idea of asking the mayor if he failed when watching this happen across the country and the response to a chaotic situation that has never been witnessed across here and he’s in there trying to bring troops together to try and find that tonight to secure the streets in a way that makes sense.
Governor Tim Walz: (30:15)
The same thing about this, I’m not going… There will be these situations. These are professionals focused on their humanity. They’re public servants that brings security to that. We have a situation that has brought basically urban warfare of folks who want to see chaos spread. We will hand it in the best way possible. At the end of the day, I will take responsibility for the actions of the folks that we have put out there to restore order. It’s nothing different than we do every day.
Governor Tim Walz: (30:39)
Our intention is to do this as well as possible, but I think as a state that’s trying to come together on this, to try and point fingers in 72 hours of the most chaotic incident that locked down the White House, that blew up Sacramento, California, that has fire started in Chicago and burning in Los Angeles is more of a time for us to try and convey as much information as we can to the public, to ask us, and we’ll be as transparent as possible, in the fog of what’s going on we will get things wrong and we will correct those, but it is always going to be in the interest of securing our citizens, protecting property and making sure that life, as we want to see it, can return back to a semblance of normalcy.
Speaker 13: (31:19)
Governor, at this time of COVID, do we have the jail capacity to take in a mass amount of arrests? The Hennepin County sheriff just a few weeks ago was talking about the effort he had made in trying to lessen the jail population so it was down to one inmate per cell.
Governor Tim Walz: (31:37)
We do have it. Again, there’ll be a time for this and I need to be very clear about expressing my concerns on this. I am deeply concerned about a super spreader type of incident that we’ve seen after this. We are going to see a spike in COVID-19. It’s inevitable. We will do all we can to deal with it, but I think this was one of those situations where we triaged the most, the biggest threat. We will have that space. We have planned for that accordingly. Our hope, is again, that people listen. Again, I guess you could make the decision on this of what people have seen for days heard what we said. If you think these are reasonable folks and they’re just kind of surprised that people are… Why is everybody so upset? Why is there a guard presence on here? Alls we did was burned down 170 buildings, put people’s lives at risk and totally destroy civil society for the sake of we thought we could. So we’re anticipating that those people are probably pretty committed to coming back out again tonight. So we’re prepared for that.
Governor Tim Walz: (32:32)
I would say this for the rest of you, we will be standing up. Teddy will talk to you about this, a pretty extensive information flow tonight that will [inaudible 00:32:42] constantly for you. I think Paul [Snell 00:32:45] will be helping us, the director of corrections is over helping at the Fusion Center that’s working.
Speaker 14: (32:49)
Governor Tim Walz: (32:55)
Speaker 14: (32:56)
We’ll be back for more.
Governor Tim Walz: (32:56)
Thank you. I’m sorry you got that question. At the time like this, it’s a very lot of decision… [crosstalk 00:33:09]