HHS Budget Hearing

Senator Mike Crapo (00:00):

As costs for patients and taxpayers soared, outcomes and access continued to decline. I suggested these challenges presented an opportunity to chart a better way, a better way forward. Although much work remains, we have made significant progress. For too long, Medicaid's financing and pragmatic oversight was on autopilot. Coupled with pandemic-related increases in costly regulations under the previous administration, Medicaid spending, and hear this, doubled between 2019 and 2025. The Working Families tax cuts took significant steps to realign our healthcare system, strengthening access for those in need, putting patients back in charge of their care, and providing overdue reforms to curb waste, fraud, and abuse.

(00:54)
The law prohibits coverage of certain non-citizens under federal healthcare programs. It removes Medicaid beneficiaries who are deceased, enrolled in multiple states, or own a home worth over a million dollars. It also requires individuals who are able to work or volunteer or go to school to do so to be able to be eligible for Medicaid, a requirement that mirrors similarly intended safety net programs. These common sense reforms, along with policies to prevent financing gimmicks, will save taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars and ensure Medicaid's long-term sustainability. Ensuring the program's dollars reach those for whom it was intended.

(01:44)
Under the Working Families tax cuts, Americans will keep more of their hard-earned money and have greater control over their healthcare. The law expands access to health savings accounts so that patients, not insurance companies, can choose the healthcare that is right for them. Individuals with high deductible health plans can also rely on telehealth services without meeting minimum out-of-pocket payments. Republicans also made a historic $50 billion investment in rural healthcare through the Rural Health Transformation Program. Beginning this year, all 50 states are receiving funds from the program, which will be used to bolster workforces, invest in connective technology, and promote preventive health interventions. Working in partnership with Ranking Member Wyden, the finance committee delivered on our commitment to bring transparency and accountability to the prescription drug supply chain through pharmacy benefit manager reforms. The bipartisan law will end perverse incentives for PBMs to steer patients toward higher cost drugs and vertically integrate pharmacies. Our work to address anti-competitive consolidation is just beginning, and I look forward to continuing these efforts with Ranking Member Wyden and all members of this committee. On a bipartisan basis, we also extended Medicare coverage of telehealth and hospital at home services, ensured Medicare Advantage plans maintain accurate provider directories and removed Medicaid barriers to high quality specialized healthcare for children. These extraordinary accomplishments will expand choice and lower costs for all Americans.

(03:35)
Mr. Secretary, under your leadership, HHS has also taken sizable steps to fix the failures in our healthcare system that frustrate both patients and providers. Together with the private sector, the administration is breaking down the bureaucratic obstacles that for too long have been accepted as the norm. HHS is reducing health insurers' cumbersome overuse of prior authorization, which routinely delays care delivery.

(04:04)
Through Trump RX, patients can shop for lower priced versions of their drugs covered, especially by those that are not covered by many insurance plans. I appreciate your commitment to making America healthy again by empowering patients with the tools and information they need to create a healthier future. Under your leadership, the department has focused on addressing root causes and prevention of illnesses. Now Medicare is becoming a system that invests in the whole person, in lifestyle interventions, and our medical schools are equipping providers with the education to deploy these services. Thank you for that.

(04:48)
Mr. Secretary, I look forward to learning more about how we can work together to build on the progress we've made in the last year to put patients at the center of our healthcare system. And now I recognize Ranking Member Wyden for his opening remarks.

Senator Ron Wyden (05:02):

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Today we gather to discuss Donald Trump's healthcare blueprint for the coming year. Robert Kennedy came into the Office of Health Secretary with sweeping promises of restoring the public's trust in government and making Americans healthy again. Now, as the Trump campaign pollsters flail about trying to cover up Robert Kennedy's devastatingly unpopular anti-vaccine policies, I believe the witness will try to have it both ways. He'll serve up enough fakery this morning to help Senate Republicans ignore the real harm that's being caused, while twisting the truth enough so he can go back to pushing anti-vax policies that make kids sick when he's out of the hearing room.

(05:56)
The rank hypocrisy of the Trump administration on health can be summed up in a sentence. Goodies for those at the top while American families get sicker and poorer. While Donald Trump and the secretary are cozying up to insurance executives by handing over more than $20 billion and throwing consumer protections in the trash, Oregonians now play Russian roulette with their healthcare, actually trying to figure out how they can go without insurance until they qualify for Medicare because they can't afford higher ACA premiums.

(06:37)
When Donald Trump cuts the sweetheart deals with the big pharma executives, rural America continues to struggle, often because Republicans have made the largest cut to healthcare in American history. What these communities are seeing now, I believe, is only a beginning of how things are going to get worse when the cuts Republicans have hidden, and I've never seen this in all my time in public service, hiding the details until after the election. Time and again when Republicans are put in charge of American's healthcare, there's a never ending flood of benefits for special interests while American families get left further behind.

(07:20)
Nothing illustrates the Trump-Kennedy hypocrisy on health more than their approach to prescription drugs. Donald Trump spent the last year hosting executives from the big pharma companies in the Oval Office. He boasted of so called deals to bring down the price of medicine. The details, the important facts about these deals are totally secret. My staff spoke with each company involved in these deals. The only thing that's clear is the list of goodies that the companies got in exchange. Robert Kennedy is here this morning and he's going to ask Congress to codify these sweetheart deals sight unseen. Let me repeat that. People in Congress aren't going to see the details about these deals. So while the American people wait for their costs at the pharmacy to go down, the administration touts Trump RX, which actually offers higher prices for drugs than what most people can get through their insurance. There is no bigger fraud on the planet when it comes to drug costs than Donald Trump. Meanwhile, Robert Kennedy has presided over the biggest cut to American's healthcare and history. A choice that's already kicked Americans off their care, forced hospitals to close and caused healthcare workers to lose their jobs. Since Republicans passed that law, my staff has been thoroughly cataloging every hospital, every clinic, and every healthcare provider that has shut their doors, reduced services, or laid off staff, so we have the receipts. There have been over 170 closures and service reductions across 34 states. Nearly 7,500 healthcare workers have lost their jobs across 24 states. These healthcare providers cited the impossible financial challenges caused by the Republican Medicaid cuts. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to enter into the record our analysis.

Senator Mike Crapo (09:21):

Without objection.

Senator Ron Wyden (09:23):

I recently held a forum with healthcare workers at home in rural Oregon in a place where Donald Trump got better than 70% of the vote. What I heard there underscores the reports that are coming in from around the nation. Healthcare providers are walking an economic tightrope and these communities can't afford to lose the services they're providing. So Mr. Chairman, I'd like to enter into the record submissions from five states, including Oregon, as well as news articles from around the country that confirm the catastrophe that is playing out on the ground if states contend with the impossible task of implementing more than a trillion dollars in cuts.

Senator Mike Crapo (10:00):

Without objection.

Senator Ron Wyden (10:03):

Mr. Kennedy is the most senior and influential healthcare official in the country. When it comes to vaccines, Robert Kennedy has used this once in a lifetime platform to make parents doubt themselves and doubt their doctors. 90% of Americans infected with measles during this unprecedented outbreak, mostly kids, have not been vaccinated. It is no coincidence that it comes as the person in charge of our country's healthcare lays out propaganda about vaccines all on the taxpayer dime. The secretary has ducked, bobbed, and weaved without taking responsibility of saying what needs to be said. Vaccines save lives in America. They keep kids from getting sick, and yet the secretary won't say it in plain straightforward terms. He's repeatedly lied before the Congress. First, he lied to me about his trip to Samoa. As chairman, I'd like to enter into the record a report by the guardian and the associated press disclosing emails between state department officials that make it clear that the secretary was traveling to the island nation to promote his anti-vax views.

Senator Mike Crapo (11:15):

Without objection.

Senator Ron Wyden (11:16):

Second, he lied to Congresswoman Terri Sewell by denying that he said Black children should be reparented if they receive treatment for ADD and ADHD, and he's continued to lie about the Republican cuts to Medicaid, claiming that there have been no cuts. That is an absurd claim that would get him laughed out of any room in rural America where public officials and healthcare providers gather to make agonizing choices about payment cuts at this moment. These lies and misrepresentations underscore. Why? As you know, Mr. Chairman, I asked Robert Kennedy to testify under oath the last time he came before the committee. Regardless of whether or not he's taken the oath, he ought to remember that you can't lie to Congress. It's a crime.

(12:02)
Our witness is going to tell the committee this morning that Democrats are interested in protecting the status quo. Nothing could be further from the truth. The nation's healthcare system is broken. That's only going to get worse than with the Republican cuts that the secretary has been cheerleading for from the sidelines. Right now, Democrats on this side, to a person, are leading an effort to reimagine healthcare for American families so it is more affordable, more simple, and less beholden to the corporate interest that Republicans empower at every single opportunity. My own take is if the secretary was serious about making America healthy again, he'd be working with us and dealing with these issues rather than going to the side of big insurance and big pharma with sweetheart deals. It's an important hearing and I look forward to the questions.

Senator Mike Crapo (12:54):

Thank you. And with that, Mr. Secretary, we turn it over to you for your opening statement.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (13:01):

Chairman Grapo, thank you Ranking Member Wyden and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss President Trump's proposed 2027 budget for HHS. First, I'd like to take a moment to express my deepest condolences to your colleague, Senator Mark Warner, over the recent loss of his daughter, Madison. My thoughts and prayers with him and his family.

(13:27)
We stand at a generational turning point. Our children are the sickest generation in modern history and decades of failed policies, captured agencies and profit driven systems caused it. Parents across this country demanded change and we are delivering it. We're ending the era of federal policies that fueled the chronic disease epidemic and replacing them with policies that put the health of the American people first. President Trump and I are challenging the status quo and the institutions that defended as we work to make America healthy again. In just 15 months, HHS has delivered historic wins. We negotiated the most favored nation drug prices with 16 of the largest pharmaceutical companies so that Americans no longer pay more than other people in wealthy countries for the exact same medications. We're bringing real transparency to healthcare pricing so that patients know the cost of care before they receive it. I used the full convening power of the federal government to bring health insurance CEOs to the table to reform prior authorization, and I brought the 400 largest tech companies together to end information blocking so that for the first time Americans will be able to get their own health records, which they own on their cell phones.

(14:52)
We are cutting red tape, speeding decisions and abandoning transparency. We're also cracking down on waste, fraud, and abuse. This year, HHS and USDA issued new dietary guidelines that put real whole food at the center of the American plate. We flipped the food pyramid upside down and sent a clear message to the American people, "Eat real food." HHS has opened the door to partnerships with industry, trade associations, nonprofits, and advocacy groups. More than 50 medical schools have committed to expand nutrition education from an average of two hours to 40 hours. Food manufacturers are stepping up too. More than 40% of the food industry has committed to phase out petroleum based dyes by the end of the year, and many have already eliminated them. In conjunction with these efforts, FDA approved six natural food colorings derived from fruits and vegetables. Through President Trump's Great American Recovery Initiative, HHS is matching compassion with action to help Americans break the cycle of addiction.

(16:02)
At HHS, we are prioritizing patients with ultra-rare diseases and their families driving faster access to lifesaving treatments. We're restoring gold standard science and integrity across the agency. We're protecting children from sex rejecting procedures that expose them to irreversible harms. We're eliminating outdated and misleading warning labels on hormone therapies used by women during menopause. We're strengthening oversight of organ procurement. We are regulating television advertisements for pharmaceutical industries, something that Democrats have been asking for for generations. We're implementing Operation Stork Speed to ensure the safety and quality of infant formula. We're applying that same focus and urgency to rural America. The Rural Health Transformation Fund delivers the largest investment in rural health in our nation's history. $ 50 billion over five years. The strength in rural hospitals ensure Americans can access the care they need no matter where they live. The HHS has also last week announced more than $135 million investment this month to expand rural residency programs and nutrition services. The data is clear. When physicians train in rural communities, they're far more likely to stay and serve there.

(17:29)
The president's budget puts all these priorities in action. It invests in prevention because preventing disease costs less than treating it. As my uncle President John F. Kennedy said, "Progress is a nice word. Change is its motivator and change has its enemies." We see those forces clearly entrenched interest defenders of a failing status quo and institutions that put profits ahead of the American people. The resistance underscores the urgency of this moment. We can reverse chronic disease, improve public health, and lower costs. I stand ready to work with this committee and Congress to seize this opportunity to implement and codify lasting generational reform in American healthcare for our country, for our children, and for the health of the American people. Together we can make America healthy again. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator Mike Crapo (18:30):

Thank you, Mr. Secretary. And I believe that your effort and focus on making America healthy again and helping us to focus on nutrition and prevention and healthy lifestyles is one of the most significant things that you have done among the many that you described in your testimony. In that context, in your testimony, you identified nutrition as a bedrock of health and one of the primary levers for treating and preventing chronic disease. You also emphasize that it's imperative for our nation's healthcare providers to be equipped to incorporate nutrition into patient care. Securing commitments from more than 50 medical schools to provide at least 40 hours of nutrition education is an incredible start. I don't think it was very long ago that there was probably very little nutrition taught in medical school, and now we are encouraging that to be a focal point. How does HHS plan to build on this progress by securing additional commitments from medical schools and expanding nutrition education into other key areas such as residency training, medical licensing, and continuing medical education?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (19:45):

Thank you very much, Chairman. We're expanding the number of medical schools. There's already many, many others that have signed on since the original 54. We are working with the states, more than a half the states on a mild legislative plan. More than half the states have already required past legislation requiring nutrition education in continuing medical education. We've now issued notices to all the hospitals in America that they must start serving nutritious foods in the hospitals. Something that... The food before that has been appalling. They're giving diabetic patients jello and custard and a soda drink. And if they want to continue to get Medicaid, Medicare dollars, they need to change that now. And then we're driving good nutrition through the WIC program, through SNAP, through school lunches, through the Indian Tribal Services, and other federal subsidies programs as well.

Senator Mike Crapo (21:03):

Well, thank you very much. I will just tell you that I, for one, deeply appreciate that strong focus on helping us get focused on nutrition. It was a sad thing that our society had not focused on it as well as it should have until now. Republicans established the Rural Health Transformation Program in the Working Families Tax Cut Act to strengthen and modernize our nation's rural healthcare delivery system. We do have a problem in the rural healthcare system. And with this funding, we are hoping that states will be able to implement comprehensive strategies that not only expand preventive primary maternal and behavioral health services, but also create new access points that bring care closer to home and stabilize our challenged rural hospitals. All 50 states received their first year awards, ranging from 147 million to $281 million. What do you think are some of the most innovative ways that states are now going to be able to work to transform their rural healthcare networks?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (22:11):

The applications from the states were really extraordinary. We were astonished how resourceful and imagine if they are. Among, I think, the most common applications were to improve or to maximize the use of AI in diagnostics, in health delivery, and also just in billing and in management of the systems. A lot of the money is being spent on telehealth, which is going to deliver rural healthcare to many areas that are particularly remote in this country, places like Wyoming, Alaska, and many others where healthcare just simply is not accessible. A lot of the applications for residency programs and for worker recruitment and retention, and then just [inaudible 00:23:15] for badly needed infrastructure repairs. We've lost more than 120 hospitals in rural areas since 2010, and it's a crisis. When they lose that hospital, they're not just losing access to proximate healthcare. They're also losing the greatest economic driver in many of these communities.

(23:39)
These are, in many cases, the greatest employer. They have the highest pay for their workers, and when they close, businesses stop moving to the area. So it's absolutely critical that we keep those hospitals open, and that's why this plan raised by 50% the amount of the infusion of federal dollars that is flowing to rural areas in this country.

Senator Mike Crapo (24:07):

Thank you very much. My time's expired, and I want to try to stay at these five minutes when I'm trying to set a pattern here for the rest of the committee. And I had questions on telehealth and innovation and AI, as well as waste, fraud and abuse. You anticipated many of those in your answers. Thank you very much. Senator Wyden.

Senator Ron Wyden (24:24):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, it sure looks to me like the president is working very hard to muzzle you on the issue of the vaccine question. It is very clear you weren't mentioned at the State of the Union address. The pollsters that the president has have found that 80% of all voters support the childhood vaccine for measles and hepatitis B, but at the same time, your handpicked people at HHS voted to end the universal recommendation of a hepatitis B vaccine for every newborn. So my question to you is, we are seeing with measles, we're seeing with vaccines, a problem all over the country, and putting infants at risk like this is so dangerous that a court even blocked your new policy from taking effect. Why would you be doing something that is so awful for kids on this vaccine issue? I know it's been your life work, but you promised that you do differently when you came for your confirmation hearing.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (25:29):

Senator, we, under my leadership, handled the measles outbreak better than any country in the world. There's a global outbreak. Mexico has three times the amount of measles and they have one third of our population. Canada has twice the number of measles and has one eighth of our population. We had 1700 case this year, 2200 last year. Europe had 33,000 last year and 127, 000 the year before. There are populations that don't want to vaccinate. Mennonites do not want to vaccinate. They have not vaccinated since 1797. It has nothing to do with me. I have not visited Mexico or Europe. I had nothing to do with the measles outbreak here. We have limited our outbreak better than any country in the world because I've talked to Dr. Abbott or Governor Abbott regularly. I talked to Governor McMaster. We send the epidemic intelligence services into their regions when they need it immediately, and we give them the help we can to end the pandemic. There are going to be people who don't vaccinate. The vaccination red levels drop during COVID because people stop trusting the American government. I am here to restore that trust.

Senator Ron Wyden (26:53):

All I can tell you is that in America today when a baby is born, doctors give the baby a hepatitis B vaccination on day one. With hepatitis B, we're talking about a serious lifelong illness that leads to liver failure and liver transplants. There is no cure. And as of December, you're still appointing people who are trying to undermine that policy. That's not in the interest of families, and that's why the president's pollsters are telling them to isolate you and keep you from talking about it. But I'm telling you, we're going to make sure that the truth gets out. I'm going to move on now to this drug pricing-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (27:29):

That's a mischaracterization of the president.

Senator Ron Wyden (27:31):

I'm going to move on... I'm asking the questions, Mr. Secretary. I'm moving on now to the drug pricing question and the disclosure of these deals. These secret deals with pharmaceutical companies set up a never ending flood of goodies for big pharma. You take Pfizer, for example, the day after Pfizer's CEO stood in the Oval Office with Trump, the company's stock prices soared through the roof. Pfizer's going to get a blanket exemption from Trump's drug tariffs, and all of Pfizer's drugs are exempt from Trump's latest fake scheme to align Medicare prices with those in other countries. So it doesn't seem to me that the American people get a whole lot from this. And every Democratic member of our committee is demanding that you disclose the deals, the specifics. The public's got a right to know about something of this kind of consequence. And every single Democrat up here wants to see this as a transparency issue.

(28:28)
Now, yesterday you indicated to my colleagues, Senator Merkley, that you would give out some information about the deals, but not the real information that would indicate if the deals are so good, why is the Trump administration trying to hide them? So my question to you is, yes or no? This is a yes or no question reflecting the interest of our colleagues up here. Will you commit to releasing your written agreements with the pharmaceutical companies tomorrow?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (29:01):

No, I will not. And I can explain why. Those agreements contain proprietary information and trade secrets. When you passed the Inflation Reduction Act and ordered me to negotiate with the pharmaceutical companies, you put in a provision that required NDAs because nobody's going to come to the table with me if I start releasing proprietary information. You seem to be saying, "We were paying the highest prices for drugs in the world." You seem to be arguing... Now we're paying the lowest. We've dropped IVF by 83%. We've dropped GLPs by 89%, insulin, COPD drugs, asthma drugs for the American people. Now they're paying the lowest costs in the world rather than the highest. And you want to go back on that? You can do this better than us. We did it because you wouldn't act. You have a lot more power to negotiate than we do. Why don't you just go do it? Well, you've been promising to do it for 20 years and you've never done it.

Senator Ron Wyden (30:07):

We are going to do it, Mr. Secretary. We are going to do it. But when you try to hide the information on consequential issues as you're doing on these Trump RX things, it makes it harder for us to make marketplace forces. You're in bed with big pharma.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (30:20):

You're telling me you don't have secret agreements here and secret meetings here in Congress all the time, every day?

Senator Mike Crapo (30:29):

Senator Scott.

Senator Rick Scott (30:31):

Thank you. Good morning.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (30:32):

Morning.

Senator Rick Scott (30:33):

Secretary Kennedy, I want to start off by thanking you for everything that you, HHS, CDC did truly an incredible job helping South Carolina, my home state throughout our measles outbreak. South Carolina has experienced the largest outbreak in US history since measles was declared eliminated more than two decades ago. From the calls you made to our governor, to the countless weekly calls between CDC and South Carolina's Department of Public Health staff, to the CDC staff being deployed to the upstate, I know without a question, we would not be on the right side of this outbreak without your leadership and without your help. And South Carolina is indebted to your leadership, and we really appreciate that.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (31:24):

Thank you, Senator.

Senator Rick Scott (31:26):

I'm very hopeful that in just a few days, on April 26th, we can declare the outbreak long and gone as long as there are no new cases. That is a big deal for a state that has been suffering for months and months through this challenge. Thank you. It is thanks to your leadership and the leaderships of the folks that I mentioned from CDC to the HHS to our folks on the ground that this day has finally come. While it is hard to find positives, it's really hard to find a silver lining through this process. If we did, it is early detection matters a lot. The more time we spend on figuring out how to get ahead of it, the better off we will all be in the future. That is why last month, I, along with several of my Senate colleagues, introduced a PREDICT Act to strengthen and expand wastewater surveillance.

(32:27)
When someone is infected with a virus like measles or the flu, they shed viral material often before they even are aware that they are sick. CDC helped work through the sequencing of positive wastewater samples from 20 wastewater sites testing for measles in South Carolina. This critical work highlights the best kind of government, one that works in the background on prevention and saving lives using smart science. It is an idea that should reach

Senator Rick Scott (33:00):

Every single community across the country, not just a handful of communities who have the resources to deploy. By utilizing these tools and monitoring the spread of disease early, public health officials can see an outbreak coming days or weeks before hospital admissions begin to rise and take steps to intervene in moments when time is truly of the essence. Americans deserve a public health system that sees threats coming before they become emergencies and the PREDICT Act brings us one step closer to that reality. Secretary, as we look forward to lessons learned from this outbreak, can you please commit to working with me on wastewater surveillance such as the PREDICT Act?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (33:49):

Absolutely. Absolutely. Can you hear me?

Senator Rick Scott (33:54):

Yes, sir. I can hear you.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (33:55):

Absolutely, Senator. Thank you for your kind words about the management of the measles. And I just had a wonderful interchange series with Governor McMaster, and I want to thank all the health department in South Carolina for the hard work they did with CDC too and the outbreak. I absolutely will work with you on the PREDICT Act. It's something that's very personally important to me to have more wastewater surveillance. And we are also putting $325 million in this budget into a new biothreat radar system that will integrate with the microbial surveillance at wastewater treatment plant to detect pathogens as soon as they emerge in our country and elsewhere in the world.

Senator Rick Scott (34:51):

That's really important because with your new system, the biothreat radar system, it strengthens outbreak detection. And I think it would be a perfect fit for us to take this PREDICT Act and put it under that umbrella, so to speak.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (35:05):

I look forward to working with you, Senator.

Senator Rick Scott (35:07):

Thank you very much. For those unaware of South Carolina's ... The negative impact of measles, it was the largest outbreak. Hundreds of hundreds, thousand cases. And it was a response, all of government response where we saw HHS, CDC, the secretary working together. I know we have disagreements around this dais, but when you need help and they show up and it's effective, you should take the time to say thank you.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (35:35):

Thank you very much, Senator.

Chairman (35:38):

Thank you. Senator Bennet.

Senator Bennet (35:39):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Kennedy for being here again. For decades, parents in this country were able to send their kids to school without worrying about whether they could come home with a dangerous case of the flu or a dangerous case of the measles, as my colleague from South Carolina is saying. Last year, we saw the largest number of children die from the flu in modern history. Are you familiar with that, Mr. Secretary?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (36:08):

Yes, I am.

Senator Bennet (36:11):

And have you told President Trump about that, that last year was the largest childhood death of flu in modern American-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (36:20):

Well, that's one of the reasons that FDA just approved two new vaccines for influenza A and influenza B.

Senator Bennet (36:28):

Because you would agree that last year was the worst year on record in terms of flu deaths in modern history, not in the old day, not in those-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (36:36):

In the old days, we were having hundreds of thousands of people die.

Senator Bennet (36:41):

Right. Of course. And do you agree that 89% of the children who died from flu were unvaccinated?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (36:51):

I don't know the exact number.

Senator Bennet (36:53):

That is the exact number, Mr. Kennedy. And it was I think of interest to a lot of people in America that you took down the communications from HHS on the flu, the importance of getting a vaccine when you first became the secretary. And I just wondered whether you regret having done that. You're now saying that you're approving vaccines for the flu.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (37:22):

I approve lots of vaccines. I've spent a billion dollars, authorized a billion dollars developing new vaccines, including a universal flu vaccine.

Senator Bennet (37:33):

So you know [inaudible 00:37:34]-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (37:34):

I think the last year the flu vaccine had something like a 20% efficacy. So having these single antigen vaccines is not serving the public interest. The Cochrane Collaboration said this, they simply don't work.

Senator Bennet (37:52):

For the record, Mr. Secretary, then I assume you no longer believe that the flu vaccine is destroying children's brains, that there's zero evidence that the flu vaccine prevents any hospitalizations or any deaths, because today you're here agreeing that the vast majority of kids that died from the flu were people without vaccines. And you're saying that you're now approving vaccines for the flu.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (38:17):

We're making sure that we follow the science, Senator.

Senator Bennet (38:20):

Well, I hope you'll follow the science because that's what put us in the position 30 years ago of essentially having measles declared at an end in the United States of America.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (38:33):

Well, many nations have lost their elimination status.

Senator Bennet (38:41):

I'm sorry-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (38:41):

Including Canada, the UK, a lot of Europe this year because of the outbreak. And the outbreak has nothing to do.

Senator Bennet (38:48):

Yeah, I mean, I would hope that the ... I know you said the outbreak has nothing to do with you. That was your answer to Ron Wyden. You're the head of the agency. You're the head of HHS.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (38:56):

My agency has no jurisdiction over Canada, Mexico, the UK, Austria.

Senator Bennet (39:00):

I agree with that. I would agree with that. We are, I think everybody on this dais believes that the United States of America ought to be leading in these matters. That's why we're so discouraged by your cuts to NIH because that's going to make it harder for us to lead. That's why we are so discouraged by your cuts to Medicaid that are making impossible to invest in rural America. That's why we're discouraged-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (39:23):

There are no cuts to Medicaid, Senator, as you know. There's no cuts to Medicaid.

Senator Bennet (39:27):

No, I don't.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (39:28):

They just set that congressional budget.

Senator Bennet (39:30):

That is absolutely... Mr. Kennedy.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (39:32):

Look at the Congressional Budget Office this week. They say we are increasing Medicaid by 47% over 10 years.

Senator Bennet (39:40):

They have not.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (39:41):

That's not a cut except in Washington.

Senator Bennet (39:43):

Okay. It is a cut when it comes to the rural hospitals all over America that are having to close because of the Medicaid cuts. And those are real dollars. Mr. Kennedy, did you-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (39:55):

They were closing before I came in here, now they're not closing.

Senator Bennet (39:57):

Let me just ask you, do you realize that last year the United States had the highest number of measles cases in 30 years, that the last time we had more than that was before measle-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (40:10):

The whole world did. The whole world did.

Senator Bennet (40:12):

Yeah. We were the leader, Mr. Kennedy.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (40:14):

We still are. We have a 92% vaccination rate. We have one of the highest vaccination rates for measles on earth.

Senator Bennet (40:22):

So are you taking the position ... Let me ask you, are you taking the position as your CDC director has taken that the measles vaccine is vital to keeping American children healthy in this country? Are you taking that position today? That has not been your position.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (40:41):

That's my position. We promote the measles vaccine.

Senator Bennet (40:44):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I hope you will go out to America and promote this.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (40:49):

That's what we said.

Senator Bennet (40:50):

The idea that you have nothing to do with this is dead wrong.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (40:55):

The measles vaccine prevents measles in 97% of the people who take it. I've always said that. That's what the science says.

Senator Bennet (41:00):

I would ask you to please underscore it because there's a reason that we are having these outbreaks, Mr. Chairman, and that is the misinformation that's been propagated. If you would have a change of view, that's excellent. Let's get it out there to the Americans.

Chairman (41:13):

Senator Lankford.

Senator Lankford (41:16):

Mr. Chairman. Mr. Kennedy, good to see you again. Thanks for your work on this. You have been one that has spoken out often on vaccine issues and to be able to provide clarity in this area. And so I appreciate your engagement on this so much lately. I want to talk to you a little bit about pharmacy benefit managers. This has been an issue that we've talked about before, you and I, and that we talk about often around this dais. We have now passed a piece of legislation that de-links the compensation between the price for pharmacy benefit managers and the price of the drug, which I think is exceptionally helpful to be able to work towards the consumer, the any willing pharmacy, which PBMs have been fighting to destroy our independent pharmacies around my state and around the country.

(41:57)
We're losing more than one pharmacy a day now around the country, often because of what PBMs are actually doing to them in the compensation structure and the way they do the scoring on this. So I appreciate that. That law has now been passed. You all are in the process of implementing that. We want to continue to be able to work with your team on the implementation, any questions that your team may have, or any way that we can actually help in the process. We want to be able to stay engaged on this because this has been a passion area for us for quite a while. I know it's been a real interest for you as well.

(42:26)
Senator Maggie Hassan and I, we have a piece of legislation that takes another step on this dealing with the pharmacy benefit managers, and that is this issue of tiering that has been out there. Now, your team has put out a clear statement to say there's an expectation that when a drug is released in the biosimilar or the generic level, it's actually put on that tier to be sold. But you and I both know that's not happening. You have said it. We're trying to make it clear in law as well to be able to give you the reinforcements that you need on that to be able to say when a generic or biosimilar is put out there, it needs to be put on that lower tier cost and not put up on the more expensive brand cost because that will ultimately drive the generic out of business.

(43:07)
The brands know that. We want to be able to push back against that. So I would ask only for your help and your team's help on technical assistance to make sure that we get this language right, so that whenever we can get this passed on the tiering issue, we can actually get that enforced as quickly as possible.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (43:22):

Yeah. And thank you, Senator Lankford, for your leadership on this issue. It's been a long time coming. It's a bipartisan issue. Everybody knows it's a problem. I think the biggest fix, as you pointed out, was delinking the compensation to the PBMs from the list price of the pharmaceutical, which created the first incentive of having them choose. They're supposed to be looking out for our interest, but the highest cost pharmaceutical would net them the most profits, so they were giving us a higher cost rather than lower cost. There's a couple of the PBMs that have now ... Well, Cigna, David Cordani has, I think, taken the lead in expanding transparency. So the industry has a template for doing this, but we need to keep working on this to make sure that they're actually, to the extent they're working in the system, that they're doing what they were meant to do, which is to lower cost for consumers rather than raise it.

Senator Lankford (44:29):

Yeah. That's our target as well. I've told the PBM companies, "Hey, I'm not opposed to your company. I'm just opposed to you trying to shut down my independent pharmacies and raising the prices of consumers." That's the biggest issue that's out there on that. We want to get lower price and greater access on this, not less and less on it. I want to switch to the subject you and I have not spent a lot of time talking about, but it's continued to be able to rise, and that's the issue of assisted suicide.

(44:53)
We now have three states, California, Colorado, and Vermont that disability groups are filing charges against some of the assisted suicide laws because it seems to target those with disabilities and the Americans with Disability Act passed in 1990, that act has worked to be able to protect those with disabilities, not incentivize them to take their own life. And so this is an ongoing conversation on this. And I think my question for you today is HHS engaging ... Some of these lawsuits are out there among states right now. I know you're not engaging in the lawsuits. What is HHS doing to be able to protect those with disabilities that may be targeted by these assisted suicide laws?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (45:35):

I mean, to me, I think those laws are important and we see in Canada today, I think it's the number one cause of death is assisted suicide. And as you say, it targets people with disabilities and people who are struggling in their lives. And I don't think we can be a moral society, we can't be a moral authority around the globe if that becomes institutionalized throughout our society. So I'm happy to work with you in whatever way we can.

Senator Lankford (46:11):

Great. Love to have the help on that. We've now seen a rise of people with eating disorders that are given access to assisted suicide, and this is just wrong in a multitude of ways. One quick statement, we'll follow up on this in writing on it. Oklahoma is still pursuing the Title X dollars that the Biden administration took away from my state of Oklahoma because we would not promote abortion in the state, so they removed Title X funding from us. It's about $9 million on that. We'll follow up with your team on that one as well, but we're still trying to be able to get access to those dollars the Biden administration tried to punish my state.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (46:43):

We will work with you to try to fix that, Senator Lankford.

Senator Lankford (46:46):

Thank you.

Chairman (46:46):

Thank you. Senator Hassan.

Senator Hassan (46:48):

Thank you, Mr. Chair and Senator Wyden for holding this hearing. Thank you, Secretary Kennedy, for being here this morning. Look, I have noticed that while HHS has done relatively little promotion of the life-saving measles vaccine that we were all just discussing, you have been doing a lot of your own self-promotion using official government channels and resources. HHS produced a video of you and Kid Rock exercising and drinking milk in a hot tub I think at his pretend White House. Another official video features a dramatic sequence of you as a shirtless WWE fighter. You also posted a video on government accounts that depicts you as a video game hero. And you've even posted multiple photos of your younger self over time, your face, to say that you alone are the leader taking on big pharma in this administration. Does the president know about this self-promotion campaign that you're carrying out with official HHS resources?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (47:50):

I didn't know about a number of those videos. We have a-

Senator Hassan (47:56):

They've all come out in the last six weeks, a couple of months.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (47:59):

I just happen to not see them. I have no idea if the president-

Senator Hassan (48:03):

So you don't know how your own team is managing official U.S. resources and promoting you in the process. So the president hasn't authorized you to use HHS resources for these vanity projects?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (48:17):

I was asked the other day by one of the senators about the Kid Rock video, how much it cost the U.S. government. And I asked my team how much it cost and they said zero, so-

Senator Hassan (48:30):

Interesting. I mean, you were at Kid Rock's home. Did the president authorize you to use official HHS resources for these vanity projects? That's my question. Have you discussed them with the president? Did he authorize the use of them?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (48:42):

I've never discussed it with the president.

Senator Hassan (48:44):

All right. So as far as you know, he hasn't authorized it. Now let me move on to a couple of other decisions that you've made. Did the president approve your decision to fire all 17 members of the CDC's vaccine committee in June of 2025?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (49:01):

You mean did I talk to him directly? We talked to the White House DPC.

Senator Hassan (49:09):

So again, my question is about the decision process in this administration about firing 17 members of the CDC's vaccine committee that is established under law. Did the president approve that decision to fire the CDC's vaccine committee members in June of 2025?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (49:28):

Well, yes, he did.

Senator Hassan (49:31):

Yes, he did. Okay. So now you also made changes to the vaccine committee charter just two weeks ago. It appears to get around the federal court decision that said you had improperly disbanded the vaccine committee. So did President Trump authorize you to do that?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (49:46):

DPC did, which is the Domestic Policy Council, which is in the White House.

Senator Hassan (49:56):

So the Domestic Policy Council did.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (49:57):

The White House approved it.

Senator Hassan (49:57):

But you discussed with the president-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (50:00):

I don't know if it was elevated to the presidential level, but it was [inaudible 00:50:03].

Senator Hassan (50:04):

So you're making extraordinary changes to the vaccine charter so that you will be able to bring on quacks and conspiracy theorists to guide vaccine policy in this country, and you haven't discussed it with the president. Look, I am asking these questions because it appears to me that you are focused on promoting your-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (50:26):

We're required to upgrade the charter every two years.

Senator Hassan (50:28):

This is my time, sir. I'm asking these questions because it appears to me that you're focused on promoting yourself over everyone else, promoting your own theories over actual scientific inquiry, promoting your own unqualified lackeys over doctors and scientists, and promoting images where you think you look cool rather than messages that will help people live healthier lives. It is always about you and building a platform for yourself, which means it's never about the American people or health and safety.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (50:58):

Is that a question? Is it a question? Because I'd like to answer it.

Senator Hassan (51:01):

No. Let me go on to my next question.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (51:02):

That was a question if I'm not allowed to answer it.

Senator Hassan (51:04):

I agree with you that all Americans ... You answered questions.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (51:06):

Yeah, yeah.

Senator Hassan (51:07):

And I drew those conclusions from your answers, and that's why I have time on the dais and you do not.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (51:11):

Can I answer the question?

Senator Hassan (51:13):

Now, I agree with you that all Americans should have access to healthy food. However, President Trump has made it far harder for families to afford their groceries. As I am looking at my time, so I'm going to hold this question for the next hearing where I will see you this afternoon. Thank you.

Chairman (51:33):

Thank you. Senator Cortez Masto.

Senator Cortez Masto (51:37):

Thank you. Let me keep in the line of the conversations about whether the president understands what you're doing here. Just yesterday, there is a article in the Wall Street Journal, Oncologist versus the FDA and RFK, Jr. [inaudible 00:51:52].

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (51:51):

I can't hear you, Senator.

Senator Cortez Masto (51:54):

There are many concerns from oncologists in this country because under your administration, the lifesaving drug for metastatic melanoma has not been approved. And in fact, you've been asked about this in hearings, and according to the article in the review journal, so I want to give you an opportunity to correct some of this. You said every panel within an FDA, all the career panels, the career scientists who looked at the drug said it was not effective. According to the Wall Street Journal, that isn't true. The initial panel that reviewed Replimune's RP1 recommended approval. Secondly, when you sent a rejection letter, you parroted that Replimune not only was it a one arm trial and all the people who were testing-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (52:46):

I can't hear you.

Senator Cortez Masto (52:47):

... also received a chemotherapy drug, so we don't know what the effect was. And again, the fact check, no patients in the trial received chemotherapy. Let me also reiterate, oncologists in this country, oncologists who treat patients with cancer, life-saving drugs are asking and anticipated that this drug would be approved. There is no concern. And my question to you is based on the misinformation that you have said in previous hearings about this drug, are you prepared to change your position and actually move forward? And does the president understand that your decision that you're making is preventing oncologists in this country from treating cancer patients with a lifesaving drug?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (53:35):

Yeah. I mean, first of all, I had nothing to do with this decision. This decision comes out of FDA and we trust the process there. And I've been told by Marty Makary that every panel that looked at that drug unanimously voted against it and they voted against it because it does not appear to work because the trial was a one arm trial when the company was asked to do a two arm trial.

Senator Cortez Masto (54:00):

But clearly that's misinformation.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (54:01):

I would ask yourself.

Senator Cortez Masto (54:02):

Mr. Kennedy, no, I'm going to ask you-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (54:03):

Why would I ever reject the drug that works?

Senator Cortez Masto (54:06):

Why would you prevent the opportunity for lifesaving drugs to an individual?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (54:10):

Well, that's a great question.

Senator Cortez Masto (54:12):

Why wouldn't you take a second look at this?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (54:12):

Why would I?

Senator Cortez Masto (54:20):

Why wouldn't you take a second look? That's exactly right.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (54:20):

Why do you think ... I mean, what kind of-

Senator Cortez Masto (54:20):

I'm going to ask you to take a second look at it. My next question for you-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (54:20):

What kind of perverse motive are you ascribing to me?

Senator Cortez Masto (54:21):

My next question fo you, Mr. Kennedy, is this.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (54:22):

If the drug works, we're going to approve it.

Senator Cortez Masto (54:24):

Let me just say.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (54:26):

Why would you hold back drug that works?

Senator Cortez Masto (54:27):

I appreciate your comments earlier in this administration going after waste, fraud and abuse. I think the Health Care Fraud and Abuse Control program is important. I've been calling for more funding for it. I think it's essential that HCFAC has the dollars that it needs to go after in healthcare fraud. But let me ask you this. As we are fighting for funding for it to go after healthcare fraud, this president has actually pardoned at least two people convicted of healthcare fraud in just the first year of this administration.

(55:02)
Mr. President Trump commuted the sentence of Lawrence Duran who filed more than 205 million in false claims to Medicare by taking advantage of people seeking treatment for severe mental illness. Someone who defrauded Medicare for hundreds of millions of dollars, he no longer faces consequences and wiped out 87 million obligation in restitutions and fines. Have you talked to the president about the fact that he is actively undermining your agency's work to combat fraud?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (55:32):

The president doesn't consult me on his pardons. I don't know anything about that case. What I do know is that during the Biden administration, they purposely opened the door for hundreds of billions of dollars-

Senator Cortez Masto (55:45):

I'm not talking about the past, I'm talking about now, so that answers that.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (55:47):

Yeah, but you're talking about one case that I don't know anything about.

Senator Cortez Masto (55:48):

Let me move on to Medicaid cost.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (55:48):

Why would I know anything about that case?

Senator Cortez Masto (55:52):

Let me tell you the reality in my state, Mr. Secretary, with respect to the Medicaid cuts. Effective May 1st, Boulder City Hospital in my state will no longer be able to support inpatient stays longer than 24 hours and will transform into a rural emergency hospital rather than retain the current designation as a critical access hospital. According to the CEO, it is because of the financial constraints exacerbated by the upcoming Medicaid provider tax cuts due to HR1. 71 people will lose their jobs because of HR1 and those Medicaid cuts. This is one of my rural communities. This is going to be devastating for so many, and this is the first that we're seeing in my state. My question to you is, what are you going to do to make sure that our rural communities aren't left in a healthcare desert without a reasonable way to access those services?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (56:47):

We're putting largest investment in the history into rural hospitals. There's never been anything like it. Prior to the rural health transformation-

Senator Cortez Masto (56:55):

Apparently that's not true for my rural hospital in Boulder City and many other are concerned, so you don't have an answer for that either.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (57:00):

There's rural hospitals are closing-

Senator Cortez Masto (57:02):

I know my time is up. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate it.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (57:04):

... at an alarming rate around the country long before President Trump got in here.

Chairman (57:08):

Thank you. Senator Daines.

Senator Mike Crapo (57:10):

Chairman, thank you. Secretary Kennedy, welcome. It's good to see you here again.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (57:16):

Good to see you, Senator Daines.

Senator Mike Crapo (57:20):

Since you were first nominated in this role, it's been your goal and the president's to make HHS the gold standard of science. I appreciate your sincere commitment to that goal and the role you're playing in restoring America's leadership in scientific rigor, transparency, and public health. And before I get into a more specific public health question, I just want to follow up on the exchange you just had about the rural healthcare in our country. And Montana, I think when you think of Montana, you think rural. We love that about our state, but I want to build on what you just said, Mr. Secretary, because there was a transformative $50 billion investment that Senate Republicans made in working with the Trump administration to strengthen healthcare across rural America in our working family tax cut bill.

(58:14)
This has been $50 billion. Following a competitive application process, Montana is receiving a $233 million investment from the Trump administration, the fourth highest funding award of all 50 states to stabilize and modernize rural healthcare delivery throughout the state. Mr. Secretary, could you touch for a moment on the real change this investment will have on rural healthcare access, delivery and outcomes in places like Montana as well as across America?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (58:55):

Yeah. And I mean, and would refer in my answer to the Senator's criticism. The Senator's hypothesis that some future cut Medicaid is closing hospitals in her state. Right now, Medicaid pays about 7% in total to rural hospitals. It's about $20 billion a year to all the rural areas in our country. We have now increased the influx of federal dollars by an extra $10 billion a year. It's astronomical. It's a 50% rise in the money that rural hospitals are getting traditionally from Medicaid.

(59:39)
So first of all, we're not cutting Medicaid and they keep saying we are, but the Congressional Budget Office says we're raising it by 47%. And in addition to that, this fund is putting an unmatched flow of federal dollars into those hospitals and President Trump cares. And all these hospitals are closing. We got to keep rural America alive and you cannot do that without local healthcare.

Senator Mike Crapo (01:00:06):

Secretary, I met yesterday with our hospital administrators from across our state. They came in, CEOs came into my office, and we were talking about the enthusiasm, excitement they had about what's happening right now, as you just articulated. And the fact you're also going after the fraud that's occurring right now in these programs, the American want the right people help. They want the fraudsters removed. And I appreciate your leadership on that, and that's delivering real results and outcomes for the American people.

(01:00:37)
Back on the issue of safety, I want to go back to my earlier comment, and I want to continue the conversation we had around what HHS is doing to apply the principles of safety for the American people as it relates to the federal regulations on mifepristone. You've stated the FDA is conducting a comprehensive safety review, which they are, and I encourage you to see that review through completion guided by the best available data. Some of the evidence we already have today points to some serious real world consequence as it relates to safety for women. We know about the outcomes to the baby, I'm talking about the outcomes now to women.

(01:01:22)
In fact, there was analysis of over 865,000 mifepristone prescriptions compiled from insurance claims found that 11% of women experienced a serious adverse event. That typically means going to the ER, serious medical care required within 45 days of taking mifepristone. That's 22 times higher than the FDA's longstanding estimate of less than .5%. In the first half of 2025, over 27%, in fact, of all abortions in the U.S. were chemical abortions provided by online clinics, and that number continues to grow. Given the fact there's a lot of disturbing data that already exists, will you implement interim safeguards as well as look at reinstating the in person dispensing requirements until the full safety review is completed?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:02:25):

Regrettably, Senator Daines, I cannot comment on that because of the litigation. I've been advised by the Office of General Counsel not to talk about it.

Senator Mike Crapo (01:02:37):

Well, maybe I can use this platform.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:02:37):

But I have read that study.

Senator Mike Crapo (01:02:39):

Right. And the actual adverse effects are 22 times what the FDA had in there on the label. And so we want to see action taken because women are being harmed by mifepristone. Mr. Chairman, thank you.

Chairman (01:02:58):

Thank you. Senator Warren.

Senator Warren (01:02:58):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So after President Trump and the Republicans slashed healthcare for millions of families, the president pitched his TrumpRx website as the answer for Americans who are worried about healthcare costs. He claims that TrumpRx has reduced prices by as much as 600%. 600%, which I think means companies should be paying you to take their drugs. But let's do some real math here. Take one drug, Protonix, a 30 day supply of this heartburn medication costs $200 on TrumpRx, but there is an identical generic version of this pill called pantoprazole. Secretary Kennedy, do you know how much it costs for a 30 day supply of that drug at Costco?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:03:53):

Oh, but I would say this, Senator.

Senator Warren (01:03:56):

Do you know what it costs [inaudible 01:03:57]?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:03:58):

President Trump has a different way of calculating. There's two ways of calculating percentage. If you have a $600 drug and you reduce it to 10, that's a 600% reduction.

Senator Warren (01:04:08):

Mr. Kennedy, I understand but you know I only have five minutes. Do you know what the drug costs at Costco?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:04:15):

I do not.

Senator Warren (01:04:17):

The drug is $16 at Costco. TrumpRx charges $200 for Protonix and Costco charges $16. Let's do another one. Pitocin is a treatment for heart arrhythmia. It costs $336 on TrumpRx, or you can get the generic at Cost Plus Drugs for $12. So you tell me, Mr. Secretary, are patients better off paying $336 on TrumpRx or 12 bucks at Cost Plus Drugs?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:04:55):

You're comparing apples to oranges because you're comparing the brand drug to the generic drug.

Senator Warren (01:05:02):

Yeah, to the exact same drug.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:05:06):

Well, people should be buying the generic and we will be directing them to generic.

Senator Warren (01:05:09):

To the exact same drug.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:05:10):

We'll be directing them to the generic.

Senator Warren (01:05:12):

So tell me, tell me, Mr. Secretary, you think people ought to be paying $336 instead of 12 bucks?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:05:19):

Well, a lot of people, a lot of doctors prescribe the brand. So we're giving them 600% reductions on the brand. We will be directing them to the generic whenever it's available.

Senator Warren (01:05:32):

So here's the thing. We know about brand names versus generic. It's a big pharma talking point in order to fool people into buying a more expensive drug. The generic is chemically the same. And here's the thing. If you're buying a drug on TrumpRx, there is a more than one in four chance that Trump's discount is actually a price hike. And for an anti-big

Senator Warren (01:06:00):

... pharma guy, you sure don't seem worried about steering patients to more expensive drugs that are going to pad big pharma's profits. But there's more in this deal. In exchange for these scam discounts, President Trump has exempted these drug companies from his 100% tariffs. So think about that. Big pharma makes billions of dollars in tariff relief by listing their drugs on Trump RX and then they don't even lower the costs on many of these drugs. That is a great deal for big pharma.

(01:06:35)
So Secretary Kennedy, here's my question. Did you sign off on these sweetheart deals for big pharma? Or was this all President Trump's idea?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:06:46):

The tariff relief is only applicable if the company has agreed to produce the drug in America. They have one year to do so.

Senator Warren (01:06:56):

Well-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:06:58):

And they don't get the tariff relief and then it is going to bankrupt them.

Senator Warren (01:07:02):

So you're the one who negotiated these?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:07:05):

Did I negotiate the deal?

Senator Warren (01:07:06):

You negotiated these deals. Will you make those deals available to us so we can see them?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:07:11):

I didn't personally negotiate them.

Senator Warren (01:07:13):

All right. Did your team negotiate these deals?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:07:15):

Yes.

Senator Warren (01:07:16):

Will you make those deals available to us so we can see them? A little transparency?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:07:22):

I've already said this. I'm happy to make the deals available except for proprietary information and trade secrets, which when you pass the IRA-

Senator Warren (01:07:31):

Will hold you to that, Mr. Secretary, because if these deals with big pharma are so great for Americans, then we should be able to see what promises have been made. [inaudible 01:07:40]-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:07:40):

You have the power to make this deal yourself. Why don't you do that? We did this because you refused to do it.

Senator Warren (01:07:47):

I think what we've got is Trump [inaudible 01:07:48]-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:07:48):

You have a lot more power to negotiate than we do.

Senator Warren (01:07:52):

... steaks.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:07:52):

We got the lowest prices in history.

Senator Warren (01:07:54):

Americans are getting [inaudible 01:07:55] by healthcare costs, and you and Donald Trump are actually making the problem worse. The American public deserves better. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:08:03):

Millions of people who are using Trump RX disagree with you.

Senator Warren (01:08:05):

I'm sorry. What was it?

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:08:11):

I said the millions of people who are using Trump RX disagree with you.

Senator Warren (01:08:14):

They've got a better than one out of four chance of paying more at Trump RX than they would if they went to Costco. That's not much of a deal for the American people.

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:08:22):

Not on branded drugs.

Senator Warren (01:08:25):

Oh, so your answer is Americans should just not take prescription drugs and pass the financial-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:08:30):

We will be directing people to the generics to the cheapest available. But a lot of doctors prescribe the brands and we're giving them massive reductions on the brands.

Senator Warren (01:08:40):

So those mass, mass discounts-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:08:43):

Massive.

Senator Warren (01:08:43):

... are that people can pay-

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (01:08:44):