Senator Ted Cruz (00:00):
… risk, functionality, security, and compatibility with current and future technologies. An additional requirement ensures the FAA notifies Congress of unfunded priorities not in the budget request that are integral to the operation of the national airspace. It also directed the FAA and airports to adopt new runway technology to cut down on the high number of near misses on airport runways.
(00:28)
It's clear that there is a dire need to fix our troubled airspace. Last week, President Trump and Secretary Duffy proposed a major plan to replace vast segments of the National Airspace System: radars, towers, telecommunications, and more.
(00:47)
Secretary Duffy previously announced new policies to attract more air traffic controllers, improve their training, and incentivize good controllers to stay in the workforce longer. These upgrades are overdue and I hope there will be bipartisan support for them.
(01:03)
I am committed to helping Secretary Duffy get the resources he needs to address acute problems like replacing existing unreliable copper lines with faster fiber at facilities managing the Newark airspace and other areas as well.
(01:21)
But the FAA's multi-year failure to keep pace with technology and staffing needs underscores a larger problem when a bureaucracy has to fund and manage multi-year projects on behalf of private sector stakeholders like airlines and general aviation, all while acting simultaneously as a safety regulator.
(01:44)
The challenge of quickly and properly implementing new multi-billion-dollar mission-critical tech systems is about to become even more daunting with the arrival of air taxis and commercial drones. If you think the FAA as currently constructed is ready for the challenge, then you haven't been paying close attention over the last two decades.
(02:08)
Congress and the administration must think boldly about how we can set the FAA up for long-term success. Both our economy's productive capacity and the safety of the nation's airspace depend on it.
(02:23)
Regarding the arrival of air taxis and commercial drones, the 2024 law took meaningful steps to accelerate this safe integration of these new entrants into the nation's skies. Most notably, the FAA bill required a rulemaking to enable drones to operate beyond visual line of sight, a huge priority for the growth of the drone industry.
(02:47)
The Biden administration unfortunately missed the bill's deadline of September. The bill also directed the establishment of a new center for Advanced Aviation Technologies, a provision that I authored, which was recently announced to be in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex and will be headed up by the Texas A&M system. The center will play an extremely important role for the advancement of new technologies, and I'm thankful for the work Secretary Duffy and the FAA has played in moving it forward.
(03:20)
Ensuring that the 2024 law is implemented in line with the statutory timelines and consistent with congressional intent is a paramount importance to this committee, and I appreciate my colleague's commitment to maintaining robust oversight of the process.
(03:36)
Finally, I want to express my continued condolences to the families of American Airlines Flight 5342. Thank you for turning your tragedy into tireless advocacy. I remain dedicated to ensuring and doing everything possible to make sure that something like this never happens again. And it's precisely why members of the committee hear directly from the FAA about the steps it's taking to create a safer and more efficient airspace. I look forward to hearing about the progress the administration is making on these critical issues. And now turn to Ranking Member Duckworth.
Senator Tammy Duckworth (04:20):
Thank you Chairman Cruz and thank you to Ranking Member Cantwell who we will be hearing from later. Welcome to our witnesses. I'm disappointed that the acting administrator was unavailable, but I thank you each for being here.
(04:31)
I look forward to hearing about FAA's efforts to implement the FAA reauthorization law, but I must first address the recent critical safety lapses that we've seen. Close calls, a deadly crash, equipment outages; these are all terrible but unfortunately they're not a surprise.
(04:45)
Alarm bells have been ringing about near misses and aging equipment for years. We've held hearings. We passed the FAA bipartisan reauthorization bill, but there is so much more work to do. We need both a long and a short-term plan, and that's what I hope we'll hear from the FAA today. A large-scale overhaul of our air traffic control system will take years.
(05:03)
In the meantime, we need to know what FAA is doing now to prevent another tragedy. How is FAA ensuring that other airports don't experience the type of radar and communications failures impacting Newark? What is FAA's plan for inspection, maintenance, and testing to ensure redundancy and resiliency system-wide?
(05:20)
FAA needs to be proactively looking for risk and mitigating it. Yet FAA failed to spot a clear trend of helicopter-related near misses near DCA. After 67 people died, FAA permanently closed the risky helicopter route, but even that long overdue action failed to fully solve the problem.
(05:37)
Coordination failures between the FAA and the military has continued to put the flying public at risk. In March after the deadly January 29th crash, a departing flight came within 200 vertical feet of an Air Force jet conducting a flyover of Arlington Cemetery. More recently, another army helicopter from the same brigade involved in January's deadly crash came within 200 feet of a commercial flight near the Pentagon.
(06:01)
These are foreseeable risks and in the aftermath of the worst deadly aviation incident on US soil since a horrific Colgan air crash, the administration's lack of a more aggressive proactive mitigation approach is simply inexcusable.
(06:14)
FAA and DoD must coordinate better. We don't need to wait for the completion of a lengthy investigation to know that. Look, I know this is complicated. I've flown Black Hawk helicopters in Chicago's Class B airspace. It is always among the top three most busiest airspace in the nation, and it's not easy in the best of circumstances, but there are things that can be done to mitigate these risks.
(06:35)
Following the DCA crash, my colleagues and I asked FAA to proactively review he helicopter operations in other busy commercial airspace, and I appreciate FAA taking this urgently needed action. But let's be honest, that required a request from me, the ranking member, and the chairman of this committee to spur this kind of proactive risk analysis.
(06:56)
The fact that it took those requests to have that analysis done is hardly inspiring, so I hope we'll hear from FAA today about what it is doing proactively in the near term to prevent more newer type failures while Congress considers longer term reforms.
(07:10)
I also hope to get an explanation from FAA about its staff cuts. How do they think these are going to help FAA meet the safety critical moment? How do they think these cuts are going to help them implement FAA reauthorization law on time?
(07:21)
Earlier this a year, FAA fired hundreds of probationary workers. In addition, 700 FAA employees reportedly accepted FAA's first deferred resignation offer, and more than 2000 are now projected to accept it in a second round.
(07:36)
Acting Administrator Rocheleau has said FAA expects further reductions in force. We've been told the administration isn't terminating air traffic controllers or others who are critical for safety, but FAA's entire mission is literally safety and everybody who works there is there to support that mission.
(07:54)
Implementation of the FAA reauthorization law is also critical for safety. For example, the FAA law… the law requires FAA to establish realistic airplane evacuation standards that take into account the presence of carry-on bags, seniors, children, and people with disabilities, none of which were included in recent FAA in-person simulations.
(08:14)
The law also sets hiring targets for air traffic controllers advances airport surface surveillance and expands to aviation workforce development grant program to help recruit and train future pilots, mechanics, and aviation manufacturing technical workers. All of these were supported in a bipartisan way out of this committee. Importantly, the law also makes long overdue reforms to improve accessibility and safety for passengers with disabilities so they can travel with the dignity all Americans deserve.
(08:39)
For example, it requires FAA to establish minimum training standards for airline staff to assist passengers using wheelchairs with boarding and deplaning, and training for how to handle wheelchairs and scooters so they will be damaged less frequently. I look forward to our discussion today and I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Ted Cruz (08:57):
Thank you. I will now introduce each of the witnesses. We have Mr. Franklin McIntosh, who is the Deputy Chief Operating Officer for the Air Traffic Organization. We have Ms. Jodi Baker, the Deputy associated Administrator for Aviation Safety, and we have Mr. Wayne Hiebeck, who is the Deputy Associate Administrator for Airports. Mr. McIntosh, you are recognized for five minutes.
Ms. Jodi Baker (09:23):
I believe I'm actually going to do our opening five minutes, if that's okay.
Senator Ted Cruz (09:26):
Okay.
Ms. Jodi Baker (09:31):
Chairman Cruz, Ranking Member Cantwell, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to share some updates regarding the FAA's efforts to implement the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024.
(09:43)
The FAA has made significant progress implementing the Act's several hundred requirements over the past year, and together with my colleagues from the Air Traffic Organization and the Office of Airports, I'd like to highlight several of these accomplishments.
(09:57)
Regarding direction to improve the FAA's communication and timely decision-making on matters before the agency, so far, we have reduced the aircraft registration backlog and applications are now processed within an average of 10 business days or less.
(10:12)
We have also shortened the timeframe for determining acceptance or rejection of air carrier, air operator, and air agency certificate applications. We have improved guidance our Aviation safety Inspector workforce uses when planning for production approval holder inspections. We are also enhancing and processing the analysis of aviation safety data, specifically ASIAS or the Aviation Safety Information Analysis System has incorporated an advanced tool to process safety data more rapidly and produce actionable safety intelligence to identify trends and mitigate risks.
(10:51)
As we enhance the safety of the National Airspace system for current users, we are also focused on integrating new and emerging aviation technologies, including advanced air mobility. Last month, Secretary Duffy announced the Center for Advanced Aviation Technologies to be operated by the Texas A&M University System.
(11:10)
The center will play a pivotal role advancing aviation technologies, ensuring safe integration into the NAS and drive innovation in aviation. The FAA is ready for powered-lift, the first brand new category of civil aircraft in almost a century. Last year, the FAA issued the Special Federal Aviation Regulation on powered-lift instructor and pilot certification, pilot training, and operating rules.
(11:36)
President Trump and Secretary Duffy made clear their priority to deliver an all-new state-of-the-art air traffic control system that makes air traffic safer and more efficient for the American people.
(11:47)
Last week, Secretary Duffy announced a plan to replace core infrastructure including radar, software, hardware, telecommunication networks, and facilities. The FAA has already accelerated the modernization of the notice to Airmen system. We expect delivery by July 2025 and are targeting deployment by September of 2025.
(12:10)
The FAA must recruit, train, and retain the best and brightest. Consistent with congressional direction in the act, the FAA is laser focused on air traffic controllers and aviation safety inspectors. We are updating controller staffing targets across facilities to reflect FAA, NACA work group negotiated levels. Under Secretary Duffy's leadership, we accelerated the time to hire and streamlined the controller hiring process through targeted automation and process improvements. We are offering financial incentives to grow the new controller pipeline and retain our most experienced controllers, and we are using on-the-spot hiring authority for experienced military controllers to join the workforce.
(12:52)
The FAA is leveraging partnerships with colleges and universities to create another pipeline for controllers through the advanced, enhanced air traffic collegiate training initiative. We expect these investments to assist staffing at critical federal contract towers as we grow the controller workforce.
(13:10)
Aviation safety inspectors are the front line in safety oversight and are essential to execute our safety mission. The use of direct hire authority, for example, on-the-spot hiring authority has enabled the FAA to continue targeted recruitment for these mission-critical positions and accelerate the hiring process.
(13:27)
For our nation's airports, we have updated airport improvement plan guidance that will benefit airport operators and we are continuing to support the transition to fluorine-free firefighting foam and updating guidance for vertiports, which will support integration of AAM.
(13:42)
We have made substantial progress implementing the requirements aimed at eliminating dangerous runway incidents. Since November of 2024, the FAA has added surface awareness initiative at 18 sites. We have more than 30 additional sites planned to go operational by the end of calendar year 2025, and we are rolling out new enhanced safety technology at more than 70 airports.
(14:06)
The FAA is committed to implementing the FAA Reauthorization Act. We are confident we are making substantial and meaningful progress, and we intend to keep Congress in price of our progress, and we now look forward to answering questions.
Senator Ted Cruz (14:20):
Thank you, Ms. Baker. I appreciate that. All right. I'm going to start with questions for Mr. McIntosh.
(14:27)
On April 25th, for the first time since the January 28 midair collision, the Army resumed flying in the National Capital Region. Less than a week later, air traffic control had to command two commercial aircraft on final approach to abort their landing at DCA due to an army Black Hawk on an apparent training mission at the Pentagon, having wandered far too close to the commercial aircraft flight path. Shortly thereafter and just 10 days after having resumed limited flight in the National Capital Region, the Army Aviation Brigade suspended operations in the D.C. area.
(15:08)
Mr. McIntosh, I had been told that prior to the Army Aviation Brigade's decision to suspend operations on May 5th, the FAA was preparing to suspend the letter of agreement between the Army and the FAA that gives the Army the ability to operate the D.C. airspace without having to first ask for FAA clearance for each flight. Was the FAA prepared to suspend the letter of agreement, and if so, what was concerning enough to justify such a decision?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (15:38):
Thank you for the question, Senator Cruz. Like yourself, we were extremely troubled by the incident that occurred, especially in light of ECA and the events that led up to the accident.
(15:53)
To be quite honest with you, we were ready to deploy any option available that we could use or that we felt was necessary to bring safety measures and better behaviors from the DoD in this instance. To answer your question, we were ready to do any option available to include what you just spoke to, which was removing the ability to fly.
Senator Ted Cruz (16:14):
So just to be clear, does that mean the FAA did actually draft an order suspending the Army's ability to fly in the D.C. air?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (16:22):
I'm not a hundred percent aware if we drafted an order, sir, but we did have discussions if that was an option that we wanted to pursue. I do know that the DoD came back and suspended operations on their own based on that event. So we're still working with DoD to improve that process.
Senator Ted Cruz (16:41):
Well, I commend your vigilance in protecting the flying public, particularly in and around DCA, given the horrific accident that occurred earlier this year. Is it true that the hotline, the direct line between the Pentagon Air Traffic Control and the DCA tower has been inoperable since March of 2022?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (17:03):
Yes, sir. That is correct.
Senator Ted Cruz (17:06):
Who maintains that hotline?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (17:09):
I believe the DoD maintains that hotline, but I think the next question would be why were we not aware of it and insist upon it being fixed? And…
Senator Ted Cruz (17:19):
I didn't have that written down, but it's a good one.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (17:21):
Well… So we take safety responsibilities extremely seriously in the FAA, and those were the questions we were asking and we were not aware, but we became aware after that event. And now that we became aware of that event, we're insisting upon that line to be fixed before we resume any operations out of the Pentagon.
Senator Ted Cruz (17:43):
Do you have a timeline for when that line will be operational?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (17:46):
To be honest with you, Senator, I would expect the DoD expedite that timeline so they can begin their operations.
Senator Ted Cruz (17:52):
And while Army flights were ongoing, if the hotline was not operational, how did controllers communicate?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (18:03):
That's a great question, Senator. We still have landline abilities. We can make phone calls from the helipad to the operation where the supervisor or even the controller in charge can answer. So we're aware of the activity and if there was a departure clearance needed, we'd be able to relay it via that mechanism.
Senator Ted Cruz (18:22):
Is it also true that the air traffic control positions for local traffic and helicopters were combined early just as they were on the day of the mid-air collision?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (18:32):
Yes, sir. It was.
Senator Ted Cruz (18:35):
Let me say, the developments at DCA and its airspace are extremely concerning. And together with Senators, Cantwell, Duckworth, and Moran, this committee remains laser-focused on monitoring a safe return to operations at DCA and making sure all users in the airspace are operating responsibly.
(18:57)
Let's turn to Newark. Newark International Airport has been beset by delays after the radar system malfunctioned, leaving controllers unable to see or communicate with aircraft in their sector for approximately 90 seconds. What broke down and how did the system become this deteriorated in the first place?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (19:16):
Thank you, Senator. To answer your question, we were obviously very concerned about the disruptions that occurred in Newark airspace as well for the 90 seconds that it occurred. When we did our investigation, what we found out was our telecommunication provider that provides network lines into that area…
(19:39)
There's two lines, Senator, that provide data and transmission feeds. The primary line that came in failed. We have a secondary redundant line that provides the radar transmissions and our voice capabilities, and that redundant line is supposed to assume that that load and it's supposed to be instantaneous, where if we were to have a fiber cut of a line or a copper cut of a line, something along those regards, then that redundant line is supposed to kick in. When we lost that first line, the second line did not kick in like it was designed to do. That's what caused the disruption.
(20:16)
The disruption was for 90 seconds. The aircraft… I'm an air traffic controller by trade. So I'm just going to talk like an air traffic controller if that's okay. Air traffic controllers provide positive separation between aircraft. That is what we do, and what I mean by that is we never point aircraft head on at the same altitude.
(20:33)
We ensure we have appropriate levels of separation in the event that we have something like a NORDO aircraft that has a stuck mic that could jam up the frequencies or if we have something like that.
(20:44)
So we didn't have a loss of separation based on of our procedures that we have installed and the techniques that we use as controllers. I do want to highlight that, but 90 seconds is a long time for an air traffic controller. So although we have contingencies in place that we use to make sure that we keep aircraft safe, it is a long disruption for a radar screen to go blank or not to be able to talk to aircraft.
(21:08)
So that was something that we wanted to take a look at, and we have put in corrective measures since that happened to ensure that those redundancies are better for that airspace.
(21:18)
We have this system across the United States feeding radar data like this where we have a line and a redundant line, and we haven't had a failure like this to this degree in my memory. So we had to put together along with the local vendor that was responsible for the telecommunications to provide a more resistant or a better contingency to ensure that if it ever happened again, that we feel good about those processes.
(21:43)
We were able to implement a new contingency and we are working with a telco provider along with Secretary Duffy's leadership to actually bring in a third line of redundancy into that area to prevent this from happening again.
Senator Ted Cruz (21:54):
So when the system was down, what was the degree of danger the flying public faced?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (22:02):
The real danger of the flying public would be is if our techniques weren't good, if our controllers didn't put aircraft on positive vectors, if we couldn't quick-look or talk to an aircraft via another way… Because we have the ability to go via emergency frequencies, we can use PET-2000s that are at a disposal at some of our remote towers. If all those fail at the same time, then we would have to assure that the aircraft follow what they're supposed to do, which is lost comm procedures where they could go into holding or they could go back to the return frequencies.
(22:31)
But if all of those start failing all at one time, then all of a sudden the danger that the flying public is then all of a sudden you're going to have to rely on the pilots to do what they do, which is rely on their TCAS systems on board, which is their traffic collision systems.
Senator Ted Cruz (22:45):
So I guess what I'm trying to get at is during those 90 seconds, was there a significantly heightened danger to the flying public?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (22:51):
I don't believe there was a heightened significant danger to the flying public, but with that being said, from where I sit, we want to remove all risk to the flying public. And that is what's concerning to me, is how do we remove any bit of that risk and we need to make sure our contingencies are better placed.
Senator Ted Cruz (23:07):
Thank you. Senator Duckworth.
Senator Tammy Duckworth (23:10):
Thank you Mr. Chairman, I'm going to follow up on in your line of questioning. Basically, an unreliable backup means there is no backup as far as I'm concerned, and aviation safety critical systems need to be redundant and resilient.
(23:23)
I know that the FAA has since implemented a software update to fix Newark's backup, but it never should have had a chance to fail in the first place. And there's absolutely no question that we need to fix our antiquated air traffic control facilities and equipment. Each one of you have been vocal voices for fixing the system across multiple administrations. We held a hearing examining that very issue last year, but a technological overhaul would take years, and we need to know what FAA is doing now to fix this.
(23:52)
Mr. McIntosh, how often does FAA inspect air traffic control infrastructure at airports across the country to ensure that the backup systems will immediately kick in the event of a radar and/or communications failure? Basically, how often do you simulate the main system going down and to make sure… and test the redundant system to make sure that it actually does kick in?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (24:10):
There are required maintenance checks that our technicians do, and they are very vigilant in doing that. To answer your question, Senator Duckworth, I'm not aware if we have checks to make sure if we have two lines that go down at the same time, I'll have to do an IOU and follow up on that to make sure I answer your question appropriately.
Senator Tammy Duckworth (24:32):
If you could, that would be helpful.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (24:32):
Yes, ma'am.
Senator Tammy Duckworth (24:32):
And if not, I would highly encourage that-
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (24:33):
Yes, ma'am.
Senator Tammy Duckworth (24:33):
… those checks happened. We all know that now. Prior to the April radar on communications outages affecting Newark, when was the last time FAA inspected the air traffic control infrastructure in Philadelphia and Newark to ensure that the backup system will kick in the event of radar and/or communications failure? And you can add that too.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (24:53):
Yes, ma'am.
Senator Tammy Duckworth (24:54):
Yeah, thank you. After the deadly crash near Reagan National Airport, FAA closed the helicopter route involved, but a lack of coordination between FAA and the Department of Defense has continued to put the flying public at risk. And we had this conversation already.
(25:10)
If for some reason a military aircraft could not land at the Pentagon, I don't understand why it would circle around the building putting itself into the flight path of DCA without being directed to do so by ATC. There are many procedures that perhaps are not published procedures but are accepted at an airport.
(25:28)
I mean, I used to land to Midway Airport where the procedure was: circle around the tower land to taxiway Alpha, don't blow over all the small aircraft parked in there, but I would never… Even though that was established, something we did routinely, I would never, ever have executed that procedure without ATC directing me to do so.
(25:46)
I could offer it to ATC's like, "Hey, how about to avoid the aircraft? Can I just circle around the tower land to taxiway Alpha?" But then I would never do it unless I was given permission to do so. Mr. McIntosh, FAA is responsible for establishing those routes. Has FAA established a helicopter route that circles to Pentagon? Is that an established landing procedure?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (26:09):
Yes, ma'am.
Senator Tammy Duckworth (26:10):
Circle to land, is that a procedure around the Pentagon?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (26:12):
Yes, ma'am. To answer your question, and you're a pilot, and I'm a controller, so I'll be very frank with you. We have asked that question via a letter of agreement. And I think the larger question here, to be honest with you and to your point, what we need to make sure that we assure is that everybody knows their responsibilities, which is as a pilot or even the heliport tower, you had an aircraft that you did not give a landing clearance to or that aircraft aborted the landing, whatever occurred.
(26:43)
That aircraft went back and entered Class Bravo airspace. That aircraft is not supposed to enter Class Bravo airspace without permission of air traffic control. That did not occur. My question, and I think the larger question is, why did that not occur?
(26:58)
Without compliance to our procedures and our policies, this is where safety drift starts to happen, and that's where my line of question is starting, is absent… Even if absent A published go-around procedure, if we want to call it that, pilots and controllers have shared responsibilities. You do not enter Class Bravo airspace without authorization from air traffic control. And that is a question that we are asking.
Senator Tammy Duckworth (27:22):
Thank you. So as we've established today, there clearly continues to be a serious lack of coordination between FAA and DoD on airspace near DCA. Will FAA produce a copy of the memorandum of understanding to this committee? If portions of this memorandum need to remain non-public, the committee can make arrangements for that. Can FAA do that? Right [inaudible 00:27:44]-
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (27:43):
Senator Duckworth, I will make sure that we get the information that you're requesting.
Senator Tammy Duckworth (27:47):
Thank you. And how often are FAA air traffic controllers trained on the policies and procedures established in this MOU that governs the military flight operations near DCA?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (27:58):
I'm sorry, ma'am. How often?
Senator Tammy Duckworth (28:00):
Are they trained up on this particular memorandum? Are they aware of it as something that gets reviewed?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (28:06):
We train on our letters agreement and SOPs, our standard operating procedures through our training process, and then it's the application of letter of agreement that we do every day.
(28:15)
So I wouldn't say that this is something new, but absent in aircraft entering Class Bravo airspace and a pilot deviation, what the controllers would do is exactly what you saw them do that night, which is shared situational awareness of what's going. We have an aircraft or a pilot that's doing something that they're not supposed to be doing, and those controllers did exactly what they should have, which was give two aircraft to go around to ensure that we kept separation or safe separation between those two aircraft versus letting that continue.
(28:43)
So while we had in what's my opinion as a pilot deviation, I do want to commend the controllers at the time for their actions for ensuring they gave the time to go around to those two aircraft.
Senator Tammy Duckworth (28:53):
I want to join you in commending those air traffic controllers for their vigilance in that and it was timely and appropriate. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Ted Cruz (29:03):
Thank you. Senator Moran.
Senator Jerry Moran (29:04):
Mr. Chairman, thank you. Thank you and Senator Cantwell for having this hearing and what is clearly occurring at a critical time. I want to first indicate that your subcommittee on aviation and space intends to have a DoD, FAA, and NTSB discussion roundtable.
(29:24)
Once again, the date we've zeroed in on is June the 11th, in which we have another understanding from the investigator and the FAA and the Department of Defense what is transpiring since the incident and tragedy of January the 29th.
(29:42)
I also wanted to indicate that I've introduced legislation that may be of interest to others on the committee to join and that would require all aircraft in Class B high-volume airspace to utilize ADS-B in and out, something that was a significant item of discussion and concern on the night of January the 29th in regard to the Black Hawk.
(30:14)
Let me ask a question that… an issue that bothered me in the past, and I highlighted this in our last hearing. NTSB's… and I suppose this is for you. Well, let me leave it open to whoever wants to answer it.
(30:30)
NTSB's preliminary investigation highlighted 15,214 events October 21 to December 24 of commercial planes and helicopters that were separated by less than one nautical mile. That information that NTSB provided came from the computer records of the FAA and those numbers as well as other statistical facts that were told to us, demonstrated to me a continuing problem, a continuing circumstance in which there is close proximity between aircraft at DCA.
(31:12)
That's troubling in and of itself, but troubling to me is if it's in the FAA's computer records, is that something that the FAA monitors to know the trends so that actions can be taken to reduce the risks? I don't know whether that's… Mr. McIntosh, you seem to be on the seat today.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (31:34):
So Senator Moran, if it's okay, both myself and my colleague, Ms. Baker, will tag team this-
Senator Jerry Moran (31:40):
Please.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (31:40):
… question to make sure we give you an appropriate answer. Reference FAA databases, we are required… any loss of separation, we are required to enter what's called a mandatory occurrence report for further review. Anything that's considered to be a near midair collision must be investigated.
(31:59)
Any pilot reports of close proximity, we investigate and we do keep records of that. We also keep records of our voluntary safety reporting program or our ASAPs that come from our controllers and analyze that.
(32:13)
I will say that I am concerned and I acknowledge that we missed something at DCA. Our mitigations failed because we do have quality assurance and quality control processes where through the data analysis we are supposed to develop corrective action plans.
(32:32)
I know that Acting Administrator Rocheleau talked about what we'd like to do to ensure that we have better analysis of our data trends, and I'm going to follow up with exactly what he said, which is updating the aviation safety information analysis and sharing tool with artificial intelligence and machine learning to do a better analysis of the trends that involve mixed aircraft types: helicopters and fixed-wing.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (33:00):
When we look over 10 years of data, I think if you get a report once per month or something like twice per month over the year of 10 years, I think some trends may escape someone and I think some of these tools that we have available to us will help us spot these trends better so we can be more proactive in our mitigations versus reacting to an event because that's really what a safety organization is supposed to do. So I really want to make sure that we continue to quantify the data and make surgical improvements to our safety processes and those surgical having the biggest benefits on making sure that we have better processes and better procedures in place to ensure safety to the flying public.
Senator Moran (33:38):
Would you say that, I want to make sure I understand what you're saying, that that data is sufficiently alarming, that it should have raised more awareness and action than it did?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (33:49):
Yes, sir.
Senator Moran (33:49):
Thank you. Anything else Ms. Baker?
Ms. Baker (33:52):
I just wanted to add that holistically, we are looking at data across the FAA, both how do we, Mr. McIntosh described specific data sets within the air traffic organization, but what we want to do is bring together data sets across the FAA. That requires more computing power because more data sets just require more computing power to bring them all together. But we also need to apply artificial intelligence type tools and large language models to help us spot emerging trends that may not be visible to individuals on a one or two incident basis over a multitude of years. As well as we have a lot of reports that are text-based and right now those have to be reviewed by analysts. So the application of large language models helps us sort through those things and bring together related information faster.
Senator Moran (34:36):
Does the secretary's announcement have any, is there any consequence to the ability to do what you just described with the resources that are being talked about or is that going someplace else to the absence of this need?
Ms. Baker (34:48):
We are already committed to that and this announcement doesn't impact the resources there.
Senator Moran (34:53):
Let me just finally say that this is, if it's a problem at DCA and there are helicopters and fixed- wing aircraft at many airports across the country, I assume that the FAA is also doing the same kind of examination and soul-searching across the country, not just focused on DCA. Is that true?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (35:17):
That is 100% accurate, Senator. We're looking at right now 10 airports or 10 cities with airports that have chartered airport routes and we have done, I feel it's a very important body of work, to your point and what we're doing is we're assessing that data and we're already having actual items. Case in point, Las Vegas. Las Vegas has got some chartered helicopter routes that are close to the international airport. Based on our analysis and what we saw, we've already established lateral and vertical boundaries for those helicopter routes to keep them separated from aircraft landing and departing the airport, as well as working with our labor partners to work on making sure that traffic advisories are well-timed and well-placed so that the helicopter pilots and that the commercial pilots know exactly where the helicopter routes and have situational awareness.
(36:09)
But the biggest thing is the lateral confines of those helicopter routes to make sure that they're separated from our arriving and departing aircraft. That's big for us. And that is an example of what I expect from our data sets to lead to the appropriate corrective action plans that we want to see put in place to actually mitigate any potential issues on the front side. And that's where we need to be.
Senator Moran (36:30):
Thank you.
Chairman Cruz (36:33):
Thank you. Senator Klobuchar.
Senator Klobuchar (36:35):
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you Ms. Duckworth, Senator Duckworth for your leadership as well. So we have been rightfully focused on the tragedy, the loss of life with the American Airlines flight, but as been pointed out by my colleagues, so many problems at Newark and as I go into the summer season, it's hard to believe that they won't get worse. And then just across the country. There was one incident, a near miss recently. It was on March 28th between a Delta flight and a military aircraft shortly after the tragedy actually where the military flight was just 500 feet below the Delta flight and the Delta pilot said, is this, I'm paraphrasing, but it was picked up from air traffic control. "Is there actually a flight 500 feet below us?" That flight was headed to Minneapolis, contained a bunch of Minnesotans, families. One of my staff members was on that flight and I had asked, and I appreciated that the DOT got back to me close after it, but I still waiting for a final answer about what happened. Do you know, could any of you give me a timeline on that?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (37:53):
Yes, ma'am. I believe I can.
Senator Klobuchar (37:56):
Okay.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (37:56):
What occurred was the military flight was doing a national flyover over Arlington and it was opposite direction to departure traffic at DCA. Potomac TRACON, which is the radar approach control that feeds all the aircraft into DCA was working the military flight. And there was a communication exchange between the supervisor at Potomac and the supervisor at DCA. And what I mean is the Potomac supervisor coordinated with DCA to stop departures at a certain time and that stop time is you stop departures and let the flyover proceed. You sterilize the airspace essentially to keep traffic safe.
(38:40)
The controller or the CIC that was at DCA misunderstood the time or misunderstood the verbiage on what that stop time was. So they let one more aircraft go versus holding that aircraft on the ground. In reviewing that, we said we have to clean up the phraseology and how we give times to ensure that we know exactly which aircraft we're going to stop and keep that kind of incident from occurring. So what we did, we put both of those facilities together along with the management team to ensure that we had a better process in place to keep that from happening again. So that was unfortunately an event that happened, but we improved the procedures to keep something like that from happening again, ma'am.
Senator Klobuchar (39:19):
Okay. And then what about as you look at changing the processes and protocols, how about the number of people that are working there? Just in general, what are the FAA's hiring targets for the next three years when it comes to air traffic control for 2026, 2027, 2028?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (39:41):
Thank you for the question, ma'am. So this year is 2,000. Next year it's 2,200. The following year it's 2,300 and the year after that it's 2,400. Those are the FAA hiring goals and it's quite robust. But with Secretary Duffy's supercharged hiring, I believe that that's a target that quite honestly we will achieve.
Senator Klobuchar (40:05):
And so how many down will we be even with those targets?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (40:09):
So for the first time, are you asking me 100% staffing or do you think we're going to have further-
Senator Klobuchar (40:14):
Yeah, 100% staffing.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (40:16):
So right now I believe the number is that we're 3,000 short controllers, I believe is what the number was. And right now we have 3,100 trainees that are in the pipeline. We have to account for attrition, meaning we're going to see controllers retire, controllers separate. With the numbers that I'm speaking to, I think we'll finally start gaining traction this year where we outpace attrition and then we'll start seeing over the next 18 to 24 months where we actually see a positive gain in the controllers and we start feeling better about where our staffing targets are and how we're staffing the facility. Senator Klobuchar, I'm sure you can appreciate that it takes time to make a quality air traffic controller. It's a high-skilled position. The average time to certify across the country is approximately two years from when they graduate. So it's going to take some time to get this process done and make sure we have-
Senator Klobuchar (41:08):
It's one of the reasons as we look at the FAA reauthorization from a year ago, that we decided on a bipartisan basis to add funding. And it's just one of the things that bothers me outside of the air traffic control world is just when the administration engages on a tax on government employees just wholesale or says, hey, we want everyone to be fired that's only been there two years or whatever it is. It doesn't exactly make it an enticing place to work. And so I hope you bring that back to the administration in general because it just keeps happening and then people don't want to work there. They don't think they have job security. It doesn't seem like a great place to go and then we don't get people that work there and then you don't get medical devices approved or you don't get planes to leave on time or worse. And so that's just one of the things I want to pass on. I have one last question, Mr. chair. It's very short. Mr. Heibeck, I've been working to get federal funding for the third-oldest air traffic control tower in the country that's in Duluth, Minnesota. Representative Stauber, Republican from the House and I, and Senator Smith have joined forces on this. We've seen flooding and there's an air base up there. There is a National Guard air base. Cirrus is up there, that makes jets and then we of course have a airport. So just anything you can do. We just got a grant which was helpful and got one last year as well. But we've only about 20% in and we need more funding for that because it really is the third-oldest tower in the nation.
Mr. Heibeck (42:43):
Okay. I'm glad that we could provide grant funding to start that project and we'll continue to support it.
Senator Klobuchar (42:50):
Okay. Thank you.
Chairman Cruz (42:54):
Thank you. Senator Sullivan.
Senator Sullivan (42:56):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and I want to, appreciate the witnesses today. By the way, I'm a big fan of our military. I'm on the Armed Services Committee, but I will say the Army needs to really up its game on being more forthcoming on this latest incident. I have actually requested from my position on the Armed Services Committee a briefing. I certainly hope it's not some big shot general who thinks he needs a quick trip over to the Pentagon and will blow off the FAA safety requirements. That better not be what happened. But they need to start giving answers to this committee and other committees because what happened was just unacceptable. So we'll continue to press them on that, but they really haven't been that forthcoming.
(43:46)
I want to focus on the Alaska Safety Initiative that the FAA has worked with me and this committee on. This was the outgrowth of a 10-year study by the NTSB that showed we had crash rates that were almost two and a half times the rate of the rest of the country. Fatality rates were much higher than the rest of the country as well. So working with the FAA, we instituted the Alaska Aviation Safety Initiative, FAASI. In last year's FAA reauthorization, we were able to get a whole bunch of things in that bill that related to Alaska Aviation Safety. A goal of reducing the rate of fatal aircraft accidents by 90% through 2033 requires the FAA to improve maintenance of weather equipment and growing those weather equipment issues. As you know, many of our rural airports don't have any weather reporting, which in the lower 48, nobody would accept that, dozens and dozens. And I will say I want to compliment Secretary Duffy, he's delivering on these promises. So is the president. The FAA announced the $25 million investment in the FAASI Initiative at the beginning of April and a significant expansion of the FAA's use of satellites in Alaska to help support connectivity and weather monitoring. The president actually announced with Secretary Duffy just on May 8th in their press conference, a dramatic increase in a number of new weather observation stations in Alaska. So we really, really appreciated that. Of course, Senator Cruz mentioned all the other upgrades that they both announced at this very important press conference last week that I'm fully supportive of. So I want to thank Secretary Duffy, the FAA, the president on really focusing on delivering on a number of these issues.
(45:57)
Can I ask you on the weather observation systems in the maintenance, we don't have enough. President and Secretary Duffy acknowledged that with this dramatic announcement, but where are we on the maintenance issues for maintaining our weather systems? As you know, we'll have a weather reporting AWOS system that goes down in a small rural community that has an airport and it'll take a long time to get an FAA official out there to fix it. So do we have an update on that? I think that was required in the FAA bill for 60 days after an enactment.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (46:42):
Senator Sullivan, I'm going to have to take an IOU on that one. I'm sorry. I do not have an answer. I do know that we talk about this all the time. When we do have an outage, I often speak with my team and usually the hardest thing is the accessibility to get there, not via any of our transportation mechanisms, but sometimes it's the weather or some of the terrain. But I will-
Senator Sullivan (47:00):
Well, a lot of these communities, we have a over 230 communities in Alaska that are not connected by roads.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (47:05):
Yes, sir.
Senator Sullivan (47:05):
A lot of people don't know that. So the only way to get in is through an airplane or a boat if the community's on a river. So that's why this is so important. And if you don't have weather reporting then you have no idea what it's like to fly in there. And we have some pretty nasty weather in my state.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (47:22):
So as in, we do recognize aviation is the primary form of transportation for Alaska and that the need to provide support for resources, food, and medical supplies is paramount. We recognize that and we definitely want to make sure that we are doing everything we can so the people that are relying on us have the faith that we're doing what we need to do. We are pursuing the large body of work that you're speaking to and at the secretary's request, we are doing critical investments in the things that you're speaking to with deploying dozens of AWOSs, automated weather observing systems and also the VWOSs, the visual weather observation systems and numerous weather cameras to make sure that there's better accessibility to the items that you're talking about. But I will take an IOU if that's okay, sir, as far as what the repair times look like.
Mr. Heibeck (48:12):
Senator Sullivan, if I could add, I'm happy to report that we're in consultation for finalizing guidance to our Alaska office regarding the expansion of airport improvement program funding for the funding of AWOS for airports across Alaska, as well as another provision, I believe you championed, special justifications for runway projects in Alaska to support community needs.
Senator Sullivan (48:41):
Thank you and I appreciate that. And again, I want to thank Secretary Duffy and the president. He's the one who made the announcement on the weather observation systems in Alaska and the dramatic upgrade. Very quick, Mr. Chairman one final question. I've been working with some of the controllers on legislation to create a shot clock for updating the ATC system from copper wiring to fiber optic technology. Would that kind of push from us help you guys? I know you need the funding, but this issue of copper wires, the Chairman just mentioned it, the secretary has been mentioning it. It is something about speed for data that we need and unfortunately our systems are really slow. What do you think about something like that?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (49:29):
Senator Sullivan, I will say that we would appreciate bipartisan support for our infrastructure. It's sorely needed and fiber is a large piece of the infrastructure improvements that we're asking for to replace copper that's currently there.
Senator Sullivan (49:42):
Great. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cruz (49:45):
Thank you. Senator Kim.
Senator Kim (49:46):
Yeah, thank you, Chair. I'll just pick up where my colleague left off. I mean obviously in my home state of New Jersey a lot on the minds about safety, about infrastructure. I was at the Philly TRACON and Newark Airport this past weekend and what I hear from the tech folks on the ground there is they still haven't heard a real diagnosis of specifics of what the telecom problems are. They haven't heard from FTI in terms of that. So Mr. McIntosh, it sounded like you're saying that there has been an investigation. So do you feel like there is on the FAA side a clearer understanding of what the problem is?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (50:22):
From this outage Senator Kim-
Senator Kim (50:24):
Correct.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (50:24):
Yes sir, I do.
Senator Kim (50:24):
Okay.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (50:26):
And if that was relayed to you, then that's something that I need to address. And the reason why I'm saying that is I actually, we, the FAA have sent senior leadership from technical operations who help lay on between our vendor who provides telecommunication.
Senator Kim (50:43):
And who is that vendor again?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (50:45):
We have two vendors that provide telecommunication efforts for Philadelphia area C. That would be Verizon and Crown Castle.
Senator Kim (50:53):
Okay. So yeah, if you can close that loop with those that are there on the ground. And what is the timeline of the fixes that you were mentioning in terms of both the primary and the secondary and then adding a potential tertiary?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (51:06):
So right now in our conversations, the administrator and the secretary have asked us to assemble a task force to work with those vendors to improve those redundancies. And that task force started meeting yesterday and we're expecting those redundancies to be put in place this summer.
Senator Kim (51:27):
This summer?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (51:27):
Yes, sir.
Senator Kim (51:29):
What I was told when I was there at the TRACON was that the main fix to be able to prevent blackouts, I mean, if our goal was to prevent blackouts from happening, it's going to require a switch and a realignment of the STAR system from Newark to Philly TRACON rather than routed through N90. Is that correct?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (51:46):
There's going to be different levels that are going to help increase our infrastructure there and STARS is one of the items that we plan on putting to harden that area. And I know that Secretary Duffy actually announced that in his press conference as well. And we are right now having discussions on putting that in place.
Senator Kim (52:04):
Is there a timeline for that switch to STARS?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (52:08):
I was asked to do it as soon as possible and we're having that conversation now on how quickly we can get it done. It is right now a piece of adaptation. What I mean by adaptation is we got to build the software to make sure that Newark, the Philadelphia or a C TRACON can talk to the N90 TRACON. So that adaptation piece and software changes is really what we need to get done.
Senator Kim (52:29):
I wanted to make sure you're tracking it because I was told that theoretically you could do this in six to eight weeks, but without the software enhancements, which is so much needed. And that could potentially be a six-month to 12-month timeline in terms of the testing as well as the development of the software. Does that sound roughly right?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (52:46):
I think the 12-month timeline would be well, is very, very conservative. When we take a look at adaptations, we already have a team that's going down to the tech center to work on the adaptations next week.
Senator Kim (52:56):
So look, I like to stay in touch with you about this because we need to be able to tell the people in New Jersey, frankly around the country, just what we can expect when it comes to the goal of zero blackouts in terms of being able to make sure that they can have assurances there. Because I really do feel like this has become an issue that is undermining confidence, not just in the Newark Airport, but just in our system writ large. One other issue that is continuing to come up is about staffing. I know we're talking about it nationally, but at least at Philly TRACON, what I was told is when it was at N90, roughly 32 CPCs down to about 22 now, but that the TDY, the temporary duty that they're going to have ends July 28th, 2026. About 15, 16 of them could very well move out at that point.
(53:45)
The pipeline doesn't sound like it's keeping up. I was told that at least it's kind of in the single digits right now. Does that track with your understanding? Do you have greater confidence that this isn't going to be some cliff come July 28th, 2026 when it comes to area C of the Philly TRACON?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (54:03):
No, Senator, that does not track with my information.
Senator Kim (54:06):
Okay.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (54:06):
Actually, we moved the airspace to improve the pipeline. I currently have 10 individuals that are in the TRACON that are actively training. I've got another six that are in the simulation lab that are going to go to the floor in June of this year. And every training class that I have signed up through the middle of 2026 is filled with CPC IT's. So my pipeline is actually robust, which is the whole reason why we moved the airspace.
Senator Kim (54:34):
Yeah. Look, I mean that's what we want to make sure we're hearing.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (54:36):
Yes, sir.
Senator Kim (54:36):
And so if you don't mind, if I can follow up with you, just kind of de-conflict our numbers.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (54:40):
Yes, sir.
Senator Kim (54:41):
And because again, I just think that that's the kind of information that can hopefully put us at greater ease, that we're trying to deal with a short-term problem right now. Ensure those zero blackouts, but also make sure we're not falling over a cliff. So is that something you can work with me on?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (54:56):
Absolutely, sir.
Senator Kim (54:57):
Okay, great. Thank you. And with that I yield back Mr. Chair.
Chairman Cruz (55:01):
Thank you. Senator Budd.
Senator Budd (55:03):
Thank you, Chairman. First I want to thank President Trump, Secretary Duffy and you Chairman Cruz for your leadership on much-needed ATC modernization. It comes at a particularly important time in the history of American aviation with so many new technologies coming to our airspace. For example, today, Wing Aviation and DoorDash are launching a joint operation in Charlotte. This marks the first new market for Wing after a successful year in Dallas- Fort Worth. Sadly, the drone industry continues to be stifled by regulatory uncertainty from the FAA, which has failed to publish a proposed rule on BVLOS or beyond visual line of sight operations. Ms. Baker, why has it taken so long for the agency to act given clear deadlines and can you commit that the FAA will advance a proposed rule by this summer?
Ms. Baker (55:54):
We are very excited to get the BVLOS rule out as well. We're excited about this new industry segment and what it can do. We're working very hard to get that rule out. It's in review.
Senator Budd (56:04):
Thank you. While the Chinese Communist Party has been extremely forward-looking, unfortunately I'm concerned that our, as we're discussing today, this somewhat outdated ATC system might be yet another challenge to the full integration of these new technologies. Mr. McIntosh, I've appreciated the clarity that you brought this morning to many areas. As we work to modernize ATC is the FAA thinking about how to future- proof the system so that new technologies can be more smoothly integrated into the national airspace?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (56:38):
So thank you for the question. Absolutely, Senator. The ATO policy is get to yes, but get to yes safely. And when it comes to integration of these kind of things that you're speaking to, we'll work tirelessly to make that happen.
Senator Budd (56:51):
Thank you. Companies like Boom Supersonic are on the leading edge of civil supersonic revival. In January, Boom's XB-1 aircraft, it demonstrated that it can fly faster than the speed of sound, but without any audible sonic boom reaching the ground. Despite this innovation, current FAA regulation sets an arbitrary speed limit in the skies. Companies trying to bring back supersonic flight for the first time since the Concorde have to ask for special permission from the FAA to operate their aircraft above Mach one. And they can only fly them in specific flight testing areas, even if they do so quietly, like Boom. Today the US has the only flying civil supersonic aircraft, but China's already making clones of Western airliners and they announced its own supersonic passenger plane. So unless we invent and build the next generation of aircraft here in the US, our leadership will pass from America to Asia.
(57:57)
Today together with my colleague, Senator Sheehy, Senator Tillis and Senator Lee, I'm introducing the Supersonic Aviation Modernization Act. This bill directs the administrator to issue or revise regulations to allow companies like Boom, to operate their aircraft above Mach one within the United States as long as no sonic boom reaches the ground. The supersonic race has begun and it's critical that America wins. My bill will ensure that innovative companies like Boom have the regulatory certainty that they need to continue innovating. And I look forward to working with my colleagues on this committee to make sure the US maintains its leadership in civil supersonic light. Thank you, Chairman.
Chairman Cruz (58:42):
Thank you. Senator Markey.
Senator Markey (58:45):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to talk about the Trump administration's cuts to the Federal Aviation Administration's workforce. Over the last few months, the Department of Transportation has twice sent early retirement offers to its employees and then attempted to fire its probationary workers. In total, more than 1,000 FAA employees either accepted the buyout or were probationary employees that the administration tried to fire. I understand that the Department of Transportation exempted safety related positions from these personnel moves, but these reductions can still severely impact FAA operations. For each of the witnesses, how many employees in your respective offices either accepted the buyout offer or were fired probationary employees?
Ms. Baker (59:50):
So right now the process of accepting the deferred resignation program is still in process. So we don't have our final numbers at this point. As you mentioned correctly, our safety critical employees were accepted. So within aviation safety, that meant our inspectors, our engineers, doctors.
Senator Markey (01:00:08):
So how many have accepted so far?
Ms. Baker (01:00:10):
I don't have those numbers at this time.
Senator Markey (01:00:13):
Okay. Could you get me the numbers please?
Ms. Baker (01:00:14):
We'll find out what we can-
Senator Markey (01:00:15):
Okay. That's what I need. Yes. Mr. McIntosh.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:00:17):
I was going to echo Ms. Baker, same comments. We're still waiting for the DRPs to be exercised, but again, our safety critical position.
Senator Markey (01:00:24):
No, I appreciate that. What are the numbers for the employees? Do you have that?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:00:28):
We won't have that number until after everyone has time to either accept or decline the DRP process, which has, we have not hit that deadline yet, sir.
Senator Markey (01:00:35):
Okay. What's the deadline?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:00:37):
Is it May 15th? Is it…
Mr. Heibeck (01:00:40):
The deadline would depend on when each individual received their agreement to sign. Most employees have a 45 period.
Senator Markey (01:00:49):
A 45 day?
Mr. Heibeck (01:00:49):
45-day period after-
Senator Markey (01:00:51):
Oh, so we're coming up pretty close to the end of the deadline, huh? So would be good-
Mr. Heibeck (01:00:55):
As with any personnel-
Senator Markey (01:00:56):
Excuse me?
Mr. Heibeck (01:00:57):
Senator. As with any personnel matter, we'll need to take that back and to make a determination what data we can provide.
Senator Markey (01:01:05):
Yeah. Did your offices each conduct an internal analysis or risk assessments of how these workforce cuts will impact aviation safety oversight? Did you do an internal analysis?
Mr. Heibeck (01:01:20):
So I would say for the office of airports, we are watching that very closely as-
Senator Markey (01:01:24):
Did you do an internal analysis-
Mr. Heibeck (01:01:26):
Yes, we have done an internal analysis and we're working across regional or geographic boundaries when we see a need to make sure that we are providing the same level of service to our airport sponsors and to all of our-
Senator Markey (01:01:38):
Will you provide that analysis to the committee please? The analysis that you've done in terms of the impact.
Mr. Heibeck (01:01:42):
Again, I need-
Senator Markey (01:01:42):
Have you done that analysis? Do you have it?
Mr. Heibeck (01:01:46):
Yes, we have done that analysis. Again, with any personnel matter, I would-
Senator Markey (01:01:50):
Please provide that analysis in terms of what the impact is of any of those cuts on aviation status. So we'll have that. The same for you, Ms. Baker. Can you do that for us too?
Ms. Baker (01:01:59):
We've had conversations around how we will fill critical vacancies.
Senator Markey (01:02:03):
Do you have data though? Do you have data that you've developed-
Ms. Baker (01:02:06):
At this point, we don't have final data.
Senator Markey (01:02:08):
Okay. Please send that to the committee. Mr. McIntosh?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:02:11):
No, sir. We have not done an internal analysis. The Air Traffic Organization has been fortunate as the largest number of our individuals are safety exempt employees. And the ones that aren't are going to be, majority will be needed for continuity of operations.
Senator Markey (01:02:26):
All right. Well again, send us the analysis in terms of the support people in terms of what your conclusion is, in terms of their role in safety. And I do support cutting fraud and waste and ensuring that the department is operating efficiently. But the Trump administration is forcing agencies to blindly cut their work forces without regard to merit or experience. They aren't targeting probation employees because they are the least efficient or effective. They're targeting them because they're the easiest to fire. They actually might've had a good role, important role to play.
(01:03:01)
And given the tragic crash in Washington DC in January and the recent air traffic control outages in Newark, now is not the time to be taking chances with personnel levels. We can see the chaos, confusion growing and growing month by month since Trump has taken over. And finally, earlier this year, I asked Secretary Duffy a written question about whether he would convene stakeholders to discuss raising the wages and benefits of airport service workers. These workers are the unsung heroes of our aviation system, and I was pleased that the secretary agreed to bring together a group for such a discussion. Mr. Heibeck, are you able to provide any update on the Secretary's commitment to convene stakeholders on this issue?
Mr. Heibeck (01:03:48):
No. I'm not very familiar with that issue. And I'll need to circle back with you if that's okay.
Senator Markey (01:03:52):
Okay. I need you to do that if you could, as promptly as you could. Appreciate that. And in terms of my law last year, that included my legislation with Secretary Vance that banned family seating fees. Under our bill, the Department of Transportation is required to issue a rule prohibiting airlines from charging parents a fee to sit with their children. Can any of the witnesses provide an update on that rulemaking?
Ms. Baker (01:04:21):
I'm a mother. I have two kids. This one means a lot to me. This is something that is being managed by the Aviation Consumer Protection Division at the Department of Transportation, and we're happy to facilitate any kind of communication on that.
Senator Markey (01:04:33):
Yeah, I think it's very important for the agency to update the committee. That's a very important issue. And again, I did that issue with Vice President Vance and so would love to see those protections go into effect and helpful to hear from the Department of Commerce. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Cruz (01:04:52):
Thank you. Senator Schmitt.
Senator Schmitt (01:04:54):
Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. McIntosh, I'll start with you and maybe you've answered this question for numerous senators before, but I did want to get given the recent news and some of the concerns that are out there about how outdated some of our systems are. Can you give an update on where we're at with modernization and safety?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:05:19):
In regards to modernization, we continue to have several surface safety portfolios that are going to help us maintain some safety standards. I'm going to speak strictly for what we're doing for runway safety. Some of the things that we are deploying now is a surface awareness initiative that has ADS-B technology to give controller situational awareness of what's going on in the surface. Runway incursion devices is now being deployed at several of our facilities that alert controllers when a runway has been closed or we have an aircraft on a runway for a prescribed amount of time, that could be concerning and we want to make sure we clear that aircraft. And a third thing that we've actually deployed recently, something called approach runway verification that alerts
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:06:00):
… controllers when we may have a misalignment to a closed taxiway or a active taxiway or lining up for the wrong runway. All three of these tools, if you were to stack them on top of one another, actually gives us better awareness of what's going on.
(01:06:14)
I think the larger question though is how are we going to fix the current infrastructure and some of the older things that we have in place. We have facilities that are more than 60 years old and a lot of the technologies in those facilities are extremely antiquated. Our goal or our hope is that we get bipartisan support to move Secretary Duffy's request forward so we can start bringing controllers and managers, the newest equipment that we can bring in, from automation, from radar and from voice switching, where we're better at our jobs and providing safety services.
Senator Schmitt (01:06:47):
How long will that take to implement? Let's say we did that in the next two months, how long would that take to implement?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:06:53):
The agency would have a goal of deploying that within four years, sir, and what I mean by four years is putting those items in place and-
Senator Schmitt (01:07:04):
Does that mean it takes four years everywhere, or it's staged so LaGuardia is updated before LAX or something like that? How does that work?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:07:14):
We would prioritize the facilities based on needs. I do know one of the facilities that Secretary Duffy has prioritized already is Philadelphia Area C and the Newark airspace based on some of the outages that we've seen.
Senator Schmitt (01:07:26):
Okay. Ms. Baker, I want to turn to you with the time that I have, and I do want to ask Mr. Heibeck a question too, as relates to the DCA tragedy, and we had a hearing, the chairman thankfully convened a hearing on that, and some of the revelations were shocking about the number of near misses happened at DCA, across the country, but specifically at DCA. Where do we stand with the grounding of helicopter traffic? And I know this is an Army conversation too, but what is your understanding of where we're at with that right now?
Ms. Baker (01:08:06):
I think I'm going to actually defer that to Mr. McIntosh.
Senator Schmitt (01:08:09):
Okay, sure.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:08:11):
In regards to just with the Army helicopters in the Pentagon and-
Senator Schmitt (01:08:15):
DCA.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:08:16):
We are having communications with DoD right now to ensure compliance. Right now, they are not flying out of the Pentagon until we have further conversations and some of the equipment issues that we experienced the other day are fixed. As far as total grounding, that may be part of the conversation, but right now, we haven't had to go and pursue that, as right now, the DoD is working with the FAA to make sure that we have safety thresholds in place after the latest outage, sir.
Senator Schmitt (01:08:43):
Okay. I know that's something that a lot of committee members are very focused on and wanted to get a lay of the land. Mr. Heibeck, I wanted to ask you specifically about Kansas City, just had a new airport completed, I think it's been very well received. I fly in and out of there occasionally, but I live in the St. Louis area, so Lambert is top of mind always, so this is a little bit more closer to home, a little bit more parochial. The FAA approved a master plan in 2023. Could you just give me an update on the FAA's engagement in St. Louis? It's a pretty unique opportunity, St. Louis has a rich history. I grew up in the shadow of that airport. There's a lot of great opportunities for modernization and for the consolidation there. Can you just give me an idea of your engagement, where things stand?
Mr. Heibeck (01:09:30):
Yes, absolutely. A lot of exciting things happening in St. Louis, including the construction of the new fighter jet there by Boeing. Our central regional office has a great working relationship with the city. We are currently working with them closely to finalize their application under the airport terminal program for the $7 million that they've applied for, working with them to get bids, and I know that will facilitate the consolidation of their two terminals, as that's called for in the master plan. Lots of other programs that we're participating in as well, including the de-icing pad there, some taxiway reconstruction, and I also believe we're also participating in a snow removal equipment building. And then, on the horizon, they have a airfield maintenance facility, I know that's in their capital airport plan. So we are tracking very closely the many needs at St. Louis Lambert International Airport and have a great working relationship with them.
Senator Schmitt (01:10:30):
It's pretty unique. It's a pretty unique asset and it's right in the middle of the metro. They've got a billion-dollar runway that let's just say is underutilized, it was built right before TWA left the building, and so there's a lot of opportunities for growth there. I know my office will be working with you and working with the airport on that to make sure that that is a world-class facility, and so thanks for the update.
Mr. Heibeck (01:10:55):
We look forward to working with your office and the airport. Thank you.
Senator Schmitt (01:10:58):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Cruz (01:11:01):
Thank you. Senator Rosen.
Senator Rosen (01:11:03):
Thank you, Chair Cruz, for holding this hearing today. I want to thank the witnesses for testifying. I'm going to talk a little bit about airspace obstruction. In response to the unique airspace challenges over Harry Reid International Airport in Las Vegas, I authored a section, Section 744, of last year's FAA reauthorization to improve the agency's airspace obstruction analysis. The law now requires the FAA to undertake a robust analysis of potential airspace hazards near certain airports due to factors like building and hotel construction near the runways. However, nearly a year after the reauthorization bill was signed into law, there seems to be little progress in implementing this statutory requirement. So Mr. Heibeck, can you please provide the committee with an update about where the FAA is on enforcement of Section 44, and will you commit to ensuring that the FAA follows the law and implements this critical aspect of FAA reauthorization and continue to keep us informed?
Mr. Heibeck (01:12:10):
Yes, Senator. The Office of Airports is responsible for on-airport evaluations, and I'm going to defer to my colleague, Frank McIntosh-
Senator Rosen (01:12:18):
Thank you.
Mr. Heibeck (01:12:18):
… on this particular provision.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:12:20):
Thank you, Wayne. I do know that it's been slow, ma'am, but I have checked in with the team, I've looked at the obstruction clearances and sure this is done. And I will say that while it's slow-going, they are incorporating the two statutes that were in the authorization bill, and in regards to Las Vegas, that is moving forward.
Senator Rosen (01:12:40):
And so, can we reach out to your office for a status update on that, please?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:12:43):
We would love to.
Senator Rosen (01:12:44):
Thank you. I'm also going to talk a little bit about capacity at Harry Reid Airport, because Las Vegas has long been the world's leading entertainment destination, we're quickly becoming a global destination for sports as well, and the city's hosting nearly 40 significant sporting events, we hosted them just last year. These major events bring tourists and participants from all over the world who travel on the larger jet planes, as well as private jets, to our airports. Harry Reid International, we were proud to welcome over 58 million visitors in 2024, the most in our history.
(01:13:20)
While we still want more visitors to the Silver State, at this rate, experts expect Las Vegas airport to reach capacity within five years, at which point the airport will not be able to handle any additional flights. So Mr. Heibeck, I assume you're aware that officials from Clark County, Nevada, where Harry Reid International Airport is located, have been working with the FAA for years to build a new supplemental airport in Southern Nevada, which the local economy greatly needs. I know FAA has made great progress on the issue. I would really like your commitment to keeping officials at Harry Reid International Airport, my team, directly informed. Do I have your commitment to do this?
Mr. Heibeck (01:14:01):
Yes, we will continue to work with the airport sponsor. I've been engaging directly with this with our regional director, and we are preparing to issue a notice of intent to conduct the environmental impact statement on the Southern Nevada supplemental airport, and I will keep your office informed.
Senator Rosen (01:14:15):
That's fantastic. We need it sooner rather than later. And in my minute left, I'm going to talk about what's a lot of topic today, aging infrastructure, at all of our airports. So the average FAA air traffic control facility we all know is about 60 years old, more than half of terminal facilities over 40 years old. These facilities regularly operate with degraded technology systems. It results in lack of accurate wind speed, direction calculations, the failure of radio frequencies. We've seen this within congested airspace, the malfunctioning of runway lights, terrible at night. And many airports, they lack functioning radar systems to track airborne and taxiing planes, meaning that some controllers have no visual awareness of the aircraft they're directing, especially in poor weather conditions.
(01:15:08)
Last year's FAA reauthorization requires the FAA to deploy the latest airport surface situational awareness technologies that track runway and aircraft vehicle movements in order to prevent collisions. We've been seeing them in the news. We want to increased deployment of surface surveillance technology at all large and medium hub airports. So again, Mr. Heibeck or whoever else think they can answer this in a proper way, can you provide us with an update about how the deployment and implementation of this is going?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:15:42):
I believe you're referring to the service awareness initiative, ma'am?
Senator Rosen (01:15:45):
Yes.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:15:45):
Yes, it\s going very well. I know that we've already deployed it over 30 sites so far, and we are on target to, I believe it's another 70, is that right, Jody?
Jody (01:15:56):
Yes [inaudible 01:15:57].
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:15:57):
I'll get you the numbers.
Senator Rosen (01:15:58):
Thank you.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:15:58):
But I will tell you this, we're very excited about this new technology. It uses the newest technology available to us, which is ADS-B, so it allows us to deploy this new capability much more economically, but also much more efficiently, and it gets it in the hands of the controllers that really, really need it. So we're excited about this technology and we want to get it deployed as quickly as you do. But we are on target, yes, ma'am.
Senator Rosen (01:16:20):
Thank you. I appreciate it. I yield back.
Senator Cruz (01:16:24):
Thank you. Senator Peters.
Senator Peters (01:16:26):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I'll thank our witnesses for being here today. Before I get into my questions, there are two issues that are critical to Michigan I just want to highlight, despite the fact we don't have DoT leadership responsible for them present at today's hearing. The first is the implementation of key workforce provisions that I championed in the FAA reauthorization, like the Promoting Women in Aviation Act and the expansion of the FAA Workforce Development Grant program, both of which I believe must be implemented to address the aviation workforce shortages that we have.
(01:17:03)
The second is the Essential Air Service program, or EAS. Michigan has nine rural airports served by EAS, it's the most in the lower 48 states. Last year's FAA bill included strong bipartisan reauthorization of this program, which guarantees air service to rural communities. Despite this, President Trump's budget calls for a $308 million cut to EAS, this could rob hundreds of rural communities from access to air service. I don't think you should have to live in a big city in order to get on an airplane, and so I'm going to continue to fight for rural air service and against these harmful cuts to the program.
(01:17:46)
Mr. McIntosh, Gerald Ford International Airport in Grand Rapids in Michigan is the second-largest airport in my state, it sees well over 200 aircraft operations per day, and it serves as a growing part of our state, rapidly growing western area. However, even as Grand Rapids serves a record number of passengers, it's been stymied in its efforts to expand and modernize its 62-year-old FAA air traffic control tower that the agency has not acted to replace. As you well know, Grand Rapids is not alone, towers across the country are awaiting replacement. FAA's efforts to address this backlog have only been further restricted by budgetary constraints.
(01:18:34)
So my question for you, sir, is Secretary Duffy put out a plan to address a facilities backlog at FAA, but he failed to include how much that will cost, so my question is, do you have an estimate of what level of funding it would take to address the air traffic control tower modernization backlog specifically? And additionally, can you discuss how aging facilities are complicating the job of air traffic control?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:19:01):
I apologize, Senator Peters, but I do not have that information for you. If it's okay, can I circle back with your staff and get you the information exactly what you're looking for?
Senator Peters (01:19:09):
Yeah, happy to have that.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:19:10):
Thank you, sir.
Senator Peters (01:19:10):
Good, thank you. Mr. Heibeck, I have long advocated for the FAA to transition away from the use of toxic PFAS-containing firefighting foams. The FAA Reauthorization Act includes a provision that I champion to ensure a quick transition to new non- PFAS firefighting foam, alongside financial resources for the airports necessary to make that transition. Michigan airports continue to lead the way on this issue, but they need a strong partner at the FAA to support the transition away from the use of PFAS and protect our communities from further contamination. In order for the FAA to be that partner, it must have the appropriate funding, obviously, to implement that transition. So my question to you is, could you speak to the importance of providing the necessary resources for airports to make this transition? And additionally, what is the timeline for implementation of the PFAS replacement program for airports currently?
Mr. Heibeck (01:20:14):
Yes, Senator, and I appreciate your support on this important reauthorization provision. We have made great progress in implementing the requirements of reauthorization. We have met the requirement in the bill to develop and publish a transition plan to fluorine-free foams. That is up on our website, along with a lot of guidance to airport sponsors and forums and YouTubes and other pieces of guidance that could help them transition. We have established the framework for the transition grant program, the non-PFAS foam transition grant program, including consultation with the EPA. The only thing that we would need there to start awarding grants in that area would be the appropriation. Those are more operational costs, not capital costs, eligible under the airport improvement program, so we need a special appropriation to do things like clean equipment to dispose of PFAS foams and to acquire non-PFAS foams.
Senator Peters (01:21:22):
Great, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Cruz (01:21:27):
Thank you. Senator Hickenlooper.
Senator Hickenlooper (01:21:29):
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for calling this. I thank each of you for all your hard work. Let me start with Mr. McIntosh, and I know we've talked already, you've been asked questions about the two copper wires and the issues around Newark. I want to just take a moment and just lay out what I recognize. It seems to me, I fly a lot, too much, back and forth every week, it's not uncommon that we would get diverted and circle a couple of times. The last time I checked, we're still using TCAS, the Traffic Collision Avoidance Systems, that some of my constituents have been calling and saying, "Are we less safe?" And to me, in a funny way, what we're dealing with when we have what happened in Newark, is people, they circle. It's not like they almost landed on somebody, they lost connection, their TCAS is still working, so as they circle in space, they know exactly where everyone else is and the collision avoidance system is still working. Am I correct in communicating that confidence that everyone should continue flying, feel that they're absolutely safe when they're flying?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:22:40):
Senator Hickenlooper, absolutely, people are safe when they fly. I fly like you do every single… I fly every week, I go back and forth, and I have utmost confidence in our air traffic controllers and our managers and how the system works with the redundancies put in place.
Senator Hickenlooper (01:22:59):
I agree. I think it seems there are redundancies everywhere. Obviously, the point of this hearing is we've got a lot of infrastructure that needs to be upgraded and we've got a lot of work to do. You guys should maybe see psychoanalysts about whether you really want these jobs or not, given the restrictions on funding these days. There's a lot to be done, but I want to emphasize that the system is safe, that people should get on planes. It's such a crucial part of our economy, when people suddenly decide they're not going to fly, they feel uncertain about flying, the entire economy slows down.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:23:34):
Yes, sir, it does. And from an air traffic controller perspective, we love the job. What we really want is better equipment to go along with it, and that's really what it comes down to. A lot of our equipment, it is antiquated, and the FAA has been known as having the safest and most efficient airspace in the world, but we need to advance our systems to ensure we keep that standard.
Senator Hickenlooper (01:23:58):
I agree. Perfect. Now, I want to get specific with you. We've got some rural communities, like Northern Colorado Regional Airport and Fort Collins, are working to be able to do their traffic control without a controller. The State of Colorado, the Northern Colorado Regional Airport, have made investments in remote tower technology, and these investments are waiting to be realized because of ongoing testing at the FAA's technology center in New Jersey, so can we get an update on that and where are we and how quickly can we get that stuff approved?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:24:29):
Yes, sir. I'm very excited about the remote towers, I think the technology is incredible. We do have a vendor at Atlantic City at the tech center, they are doing the safety case and the business case now, and the FAA is ready to validate that safety case, credential that system, and as soon as that occurs, then the airports will be able to go and purchase that system. I got an update just yesterday and I believe they plan on doing an industry day sometime this summer for people to come and take a look at the new technology that's out there with how this works, and it really is an incredible.
Senator Hickenlooper (01:25:02):
Well, that's great, and that's promotional. I'm just trying to urge a sense of urgency.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:25:06):
Yes, sir.
Senator Hickenlooper (01:25:07):
I find a lot of my time is spent urging a sense of urgency around here. Mr. Heibeck, as you know, many regional airports are the single most important connectivity hub to the rest of their state or the rest of the country, and we worked closely with Senator Fischer to enact the Sustainable Regional Air Travel Act as part of FAA reauthorization in 2024. That was an obviously bipartisan bill that commissioned a federal study that'll be published next month to examine those factors that impact air service to regional airports, including pilot availability, air traffic control systems, as we've talked about, and other issues. Can you describe what you think are the most pressing issues that regional airports are facing today? Because they are such a huge part, of not just Colorado, but pretty much every western state and really almost every state.
Mr. Heibeck (01:25:58):
Yes, Senator. I think the Reauthorization Act seeks to provide or expand the types of funding under the airport improvement program, to fund critical safety infrastructure development projects at the small rural airports, and I think the funding challenges continue to persist there. But the Reauthorization Act does a really good job making some changes to the small airport fund and in other areas to focus on non-hub airports and non-primary airports. One particular example is the state apportionment is expanded there, and I think that'll help meet some of the funding challenges at the smaller airports in the system.
Senator Hickenlooper (01:26:41):
Great. Well, thank you again. Ms. Baker, I'm out of time, but I will submit, I've got a couple of questions for you too, I'll submit them in written form. Thank you. I yield back to the chair.
Senator Cruz (01:26:50):
Thank you. Ranking Member Cantwell.
Senator Cantwell (01:26:52):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to mention, I heard that you said that there's great bipartisan support on working on DCA and the problems around DCA, and that it's very true and we remain committed to understanding what's transpired and continuing to get answers, and I think Senator Moran might've mentioned that he thinks we are going to do a roundtable to get further information.
(01:27:20)
But Mr. McIntosh, on this point… Well, first of all, I wish Acting-Administrator Rocheleau was here, I'm not sure why he's not here. I think having somebody who's in charge of the operations and answering to that is very important. But the NTSB report, obviously, was quite damning with a lot of information about close calls beyond the accident that happened, and so it begs the question about the ATO process that's in place, the safety risk management system that is supposed to be there, and now, post the accident, we've had this nother incident. So why is your system not working, why is the FAA's oversight of this not working?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:28:09):
Thank you for the question, Senator Cantwell. The SMS process the ATO utilizes is quite robust. We have independent reviews from different levels of the organization to ensure that we don't have any human biases, and what I mean by that is we are required to review all events at all of our FAA facilities. So any significant event is required to be entered into a mandatory occurrence report and then a subsequent investigation.
Senator Cantwell (01:28:38):
Okay. So are you saying nobody's investigating this? Because I have to get through about five issues here. So all I'm saying is if you had all those alarms going off, if you had all of that oversight and you had a safety risk management system, but nobody read the data and nobody said anything, we've already asked this of the FAA, so now I want an answer from the acting administrator, I'm pretty sure you already promised me an answer, which I still don't have, which is, what is your process for then saying, "This is a problem and we're going to put a stop to it"? I think the answer right now is, oh, no, no, I'm going to call air traffic controllers. That is not the answer, the answer is this is too big of a risk and we're not going to continue to do this and we're going to set up better separations and more standards, and you haven't done that. So that's question number one.
(01:29:24)
Okay, Newark. There's been reports in the press that maybe there was only three people in the tower. Isn't there a requirement that there should be seven people in the tower? Isn't DCA here, similarly, isn't it about seven air traffic controllers to staff a tower like either of these towers, is that right?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:29:42):
Are you speaking to Newark Tower or to Philadelphia Area C TRACON?
Senator Cantwell (01:29:47):
Either.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:29:48):
We have basic watch schedule guidelines, this is a number that we try to get to.
Senator Cantwell (01:29:53):
Which is what?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:29:54):
Depends on by facility and how many positions we open. Now, I believe you're well aware that we do have some critical staffing shortfalls.
Senator Cantwell (01:30:03):
I can't tell you how hard I worked to get the 3,000 increase and I would've gotten more. But back to this question.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:30:07):
Yes, ma'am.
Senator Cantwell (01:30:08):
What I'm pinpointing is if the New York Post is wrong, I don't know whether they are, maybe there were three people there, but if your number is seven and you don't have seven, what is the FAA doing every day to monitor that situation and say, "This is a problem"? This is not, I'm going to call the head of the air traffic controllers union, this is what is the FAA going to do to fix the system? You're going to hear a rejoining theme through all of my questions, this is about this agency playing the aggressive role that we need you to play.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:30:39):
Yes, ma'am, and thank you for that question, I wish to address it.
Senator Cantwell (01:30:41):
Okay.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:30:42):
When we have a staffing shortage and we cannot open enough positions, we put in traffic management initiatives to slow the aircraft down. That's exactly what we did that night at Philadelphia Area C, we put in a ground delay program to keep traffic manageable. We do the same thing at DCA, when we have too much volume, we put in a ground delay program. We do this on a daily basis.
Senator Cantwell (01:31:02):
So did you think you only had three people in that tower controlling that air space?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:31:05):
In that TRACON, for one hour, we did go down to that number, and we put in the appropriate traffic management initiative to keep things safe.
Senator Cantwell (01:31:13):
Okay. Why did we go from seven, which is a requirement, down to three? I'm for the safety first, for sure, but then at the same time-
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:31:21):
Yes, ma'am.
Senator Cantwell (01:31:22):
… I'm trying to understand, why is it that we're now down from seven, which is basically what you think you need, down to three?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:31:28):
It comes down to a staffing shortage, ma'am. We did lose some controllers in that area due to either some sick leave that was unscheduled or some other leave that was not scheduled. When those things happen, ma'am, we have to essentially keep things safe and we'll put in the appropriate traffic management initiatives to keep the flying public safe and make sure that we put controllers in the position to be successful.
Senator Cantwell (01:31:50):
Well, I definitely think that… Yeah, I would not have been firing the safety oversight team that we had as part of our FAA safety bill that we implemented, these are people who help us at a very big picture level, and I certainly wouldn't have cut back on staffing in general at the FAA. I think it's a time when we need people to be doing their job.
(01:32:14)
I need to turn to the ODA. So I sent you a letter, I finally got a response last night. I don't really think it's satisfactory, but this process of the FAA and the manufacturer working together, what is it is the criteria that you are going to look for in an ODA agreement related to aviation manufacturing?
Ms. Baker (01:32:45):
Thank you for the question and thank you for your patience in the response. We are looking for criteria that the ODA is performing its functions, so how is it performing, is it meeting the requirements that we would hold? ODA unit members are performing work that the FAA would perform, so we want to make sure that they're performing to that same high standard, and we want to ensure that incidents of undue influence or undue pressure are minimized, and when they do occur, that they're properly researched and corrective actions are put in place. We're also looking for Boeing to continue their implementation of the safety management system.
Senator Cantwell (01:33:31):
A mandatory?
Ms. Baker (01:33:32):
Excuse me?
Senator Cantwell (01:33:33):
A mandatory?
Ms. Baker (01:33:34):
It is mandatory for them, but-
Senator Cantwell (01:33:36):
No, no, a mandatory safety management system, not a it's mandatory you get one and then you decide to make it voluntary.
Ms. Baker (01:33:44):
Correct.
Senator Cantwell (01:33:45):
There's a difference.
Ms. Baker (01:33:46):
They will meet the standards of-
Senator Cantwell (01:33:47):
I'm a little concerned your general counsel is confused by this, because he was confused before and let them off the hook. Now, I want to make sure we're not confused. It is a mandatory.
Ms. Baker (01:33:56):
A Part Five SMS.
Senator Cantwell (01:33:59):
Okay. So what is it on the employee input, what are you looking for? Because part of the issue here was intimidation by employees speaking up and the FAA not backing them up. And so, what are you recommending? What is it you want to see in the ODA that would say, "Yes, I understand now that the company is listening to the input from the employees"? And when we asked the Former Administrator Whitaker, if in fact the FAA should have some foresight into that, he said yes, so we want to see a employee feedback system that the FAA has some access to.
Ms. Baker (01:34:43):
Administrator Whitaker did invite the Boeing employees to leverage the FAA hotline, and so we did see an uptick in that, we did have employees directly communicating with the FAA. In addition, we have inspectors on the floor every day in the factories having direct interaction with the workforce and inviting the workforce to interact with them, as well as what I mentioned with the undue pressure and the ODAs. We have assigned direct advisors so the ODA members have someone within FAA that they can reach out to directly, and again, we monitor any reports of undue pressure in the associated investigations.
Senator Cantwell (01:35:23):
I would like it if you could address this in a written response. What is it that you think the FAA believes makes for the right ODA agreement related to the employee feedback? This committee receives lots of whistleblower testimony. This committee receives lots of inputs about how the employees were bringing up issues and the FAA wasn't supporting them, so we want a clear process with the FAA that the FAA is knowledgeable, not after the fact or not hoodwinked, basically when it comes to like the MCAS system. There were people raising the questions about MCAS all the way along, very senior people, and I think it would've been an interesting point if somehow that had surfaced to the FAA at that point in time, at least an alarm bell would've gone on at the FAA, oh, MCAS, better pay attention to this, this is a bigger C change than we think. Correct?
Ms. Baker (01:36:24):
Part of the bill itself talked about how we're going to improve communication during the certification process, not just during the production process, and some of those provisions that we're putting in place are going to facilitate that as well.
Senator Cantwell (01:36:35):
Please provide to me the written, what is it you're going to expect in a process for certifying a new ODA, what is it you're looking for to make sure that employee input, when they're identifying problems that they're concerned about, how the FAA knows about that and basically gets it on your radar screen that this is something the engineering staff believes you should pay attention to. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, sorry for going over.
Senator Cruz (01:37:02):
Thank you. Senator Lujan.
Senator Lujan (01:37:05):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Recently, we're seeing almost daily reports about issues at Newark Liberty International Airport, whether it's radar air traffic control issues due to outages or short staffing, or the most recent ground delay due to construction, these reports are deeply troubling and require immediate attention. As you know right now, there are shortages in staffing, not just at Newark, but across the country, forcing air traffic controllers to work intense schedules, longer and longer hours. That should raise a concern to everyone for what's happening in our skies.
(01:37:41)
When we do not take care of our air traffic controllers. It puts the efficiency and safety of aviation at risk. Fortunately, the most recent FAA reauthorization included important provisions to improve the health of our air traffic control systems. I was proud to be a part of such pieces too specifically in the final reauthorization package. The Air Traffic Controllers Hiring Act and Air Traffic Control Workforce Transparency Act now both seek to improve the safety and staffing standards to ensure adequate numbers of fully qualified controllers. While Secretary Duffy has said he's committed to fixing these issues, I'd like to hear from you all as well.
(01:38:24)
Mr. McIntosh, do you support efforts to ensure the FAA is hiring and training as many controllers as are needed each year to address existing shortages?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:38:34):
Senator Lujan, I appreciate that question. As a former controller that was in the military and in the FAA, and a manager who had to oversee having enough staffing to ensure that we're able to do our job, I 100% support Secretary Duffy's supercharged hiring to maximize not just our hiring of FAA controllers over the next four or five years, but also ensuring that they come through the academy
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:39:00):
… at a quick pace that they're incentivized to recruit, meaning there is a 30% pay bump for our academy graduates as well as some of the retention efforts that he's put forward there as well. I think he's put the plan forward. It is now the FAA and the air traffic organization's job to move that forward. But to answer your question, yes, I whole-heartedly support this initiative.
Senator Lujan (01:39:20):
Resounding yes, I appreciate that, sir. What's the status of the collaborative resources work group that seeks to determine the number of air traffic controllers needed at each tower and center?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:39:30):
It has been implemented according to the reauthorization bill.
Senator Lujan (01:39:34):
What else can the FAA do to improve the recruitment hiring retention of air traffic controllers?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:39:38):
I think Secretary Duffy's already laid forth that plan in his efforts of what he's done. Now it's up for the FAA to execute that plan.
Senator Lujan (01:39:46):
So with your expertise, I hope you'd be advising the secretary, you're the one that's done this. I served with the secretary, know him, but is there anything lacking or is that plan a hundred percent complete? That's all that's needed.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:40:00):
What we are committed to do or what I need from my vantage point, as long as we hire to those numbers, which he's committed to, and we continue to put through that throughput… He's already invested in our tower simulator systems. We've already ensured that that's going to be in place according to the reauthorization bill as well. We just need to ensure that we execute at the facility level to make sure that we have certifications so we have enough people to work. That is going to be the number one cure to what is our fatigue issues that we see, and also ensuring that we have enough people to work the sectors.
Senator Lujan (01:40:35):
Appreciate that, sir. Ms. Baker, another provision I championed in the FAA reauthorization required the FAA to initiate a call to action to address ramp worker safety and publish training educational materials. Can you tell me what progress the FAA has made to initiate this call to action?
Ms. Baker (01:40:52):
Yes, absolutely. Aviation Safety is working in partnership actually with the Office of Airports. We are having a ramp safety call to action safety summit tomorrow as a matter of fact, where we're going to bring together air carriers, employees of ramp workers along with FAA employees to identify best practices, areas of improvement and what we can make suggestions about what we can do to improve ramp worker safety.
Senator Lujan (01:41:16):
And when do you expect to complete your review and submit your findings and safety recommendations for ramp workers to Congress?
Ms. Baker (01:41:25):
Shortly thereafter.
Senator Lujan (01:41:27):
A week, two weeks, a month, a year?
Ms. Baker (01:41:29):
It'll probably take more than a couple of weeks. We want to make sure we give a due diligence, but we'll circle back with you when we get our plan.
Senator Lujan (01:41:35):
Before August?
Ms. Baker (01:41:37):
We will work on it over the summer.
Senator Lujan (01:41:39):
Before December?
Ms. Baker (01:41:40):
We'll work on it over the summer.
Senator Lujan (01:41:42):
Is it going to be a year then? Because you said shortly thereafter. So I'm just trying to understand what shortly thereafter means.
Ms. Baker (01:41:45):
How big shortly is?
Senator Lujan (01:41:46):
Is that a year? Is that by the end of Trump's term? What are we talking about?
Ms. Baker (01:41:50):
Without knowing what's going to be discussed tomorrow, it's hard to estimate how long it'll take to make a complete report. But we're happy to get back with you about the findings of tomorrow's ramp.
Senator Lujan (01:41:58):
I'm sorry to push you, Ms. Baker, but dates matter. Is it fair to say no more than two years?
Ms. Baker (01:42:03):
Yes, absolutely.
Senator Lujan (01:42:04):
I appreciate that. That's a timeline that we could work with. Under the FAA reauthorization, the FAA was directed to collaborate with the National Academies of Science, Engineering and Medicine on a 12-month-long study focused on unsafe cabin temperatures and conditions. On January 7th of this year, the FAA gave an update saying that they have met the NASEM and will finalize an agreement and funding for the project after defining the scope. Ms. Baker, what is the status of this research effort?
Ms. Baker (01:42:31):
We are working with with NASEM right now.
Senator Lujan (01:42:34):
Do you believe that more should be done to prevent unsafe temperatures and cabins?
Ms. Baker (01:42:38):
I believe that unsafe temperatures and cabins are definitely unpleasant. I think it's very challenging on the ground because aircraft are made basically to heat and cool in the air. I'm looking forward to the recommendations we get from NASEM so we can identify what the next steps are.
Senator Lujan (01:42:50):
Is it fair to say that they can be more than unpleasant and can actually cost someone a health problem or a health condition?
Ms. Baker (01:42:57):
I think what we get from NASEM will identify what those potential health challenges could be.
Senator Lujan (01:43:01):
I don't know if you've ever been on a flight when it gets uncomfortable like that, but I've seen people that react uncomfortably and sometimes they have to call physicians or ask for volunteers that may be on the fight that have medical expertise. I would say it's more than uncomfortable would be my response.
Ms. Baker (01:43:15):
I was a crew member for four years, so I understand.
Senator Lujan (01:43:17):
Would you agree with me then?
Ms. Baker (01:43:19):
It can be very uncomfortable.
Senator Lujan (01:43:20):
Okay, then we don't agree. I think it can be deadly, not more just that it's uncomfortable, I can put a jacket on. I can fan myself with one of the pamphlets. It can be outright dangerous and cost someone their life.
Ms. Baker (01:43:32):
We're looking forward to the report from the National Academies.
Senator Lujan (01:43:36):
Do we agree then Ms. Baker, that it could be more than just uncomfortable?
Ms. Baker (01:43:39):
Looking forward to the report from the National Academies.
Senator Lujan (01:43:42):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the time today.
Senator Ted Cruz (01:43:44):
Thank you. Senator Fetterman.
Speaker 1 (01:43:47):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hi, so hi. Hello everybody. And now I think it really needs to be said more, flying in America is incredibly safe. It's incredibly safe. I mean, I and I think most of my colleagues, many of them, I spend maybe 46, 47 weeks out of 52 flying in that. My plane was in that airspace about half an hour or so earlier before that tragedy in DCA. And that was really the first accident and I guess quite a while. So I really want to remind people that it's still incredibly safe and I refuse to play in the blame, it's his guy, that's problem. It's this, that other thing. So I just really want to make sure we can agree that's very bipartisan.
(01:44:41)
We want to have make flying safer, but not turning it into a finger pointing a thing. So for me now, we've constantly heard there's a lot of shortage of air traffic controllers and we know sometimes it might be difficult for the FAA to meet their staffing goals. Now we have what I would describe the Harvard of air traffic control schools in Beaver County in my state, which plays a huge role in training the next generation of the air traffic controllers. So Mr. McIntosh, can you speak to the importance of training schools like the ones that I addressed in the air traffic controller shortage?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:45:24):
I believe to your question, Senator, and thank you for the affirmation that it's still safe to fly. It is extremely safe to fly. Thank you for that. In regards to schools that offer programs to be an air traffic controller, a hundred percent agree that these schools are essential for our continued pipeline. So whether it's a collegiate training initiative that you're speaking to or the enhanced collegiate training initiative, if this offers additional people into our training pipeline, that's pivotal for us to increase our candidate pool as well as ensuring that we have enough controllers.
Speaker 1 (01:46:03):
So are you able to commit to… Again, you're going to support these kinds of programs, it's a lot of sense, right? Obviously.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:46:11):
We support the collegiate training initiative and the enhanced one as well. Yes, Senator.
Speaker 1 (01:46:15):
Okay. So Essential Air Service is a lifeline in Pennsylvania and it brings smaller communities that otherwise wouldn't have those kinds of things. Now, in my state, we have places like Altoona, Johnstown or Lancaster, and I am not sure why we would have any kind of budget cuts that might impact this kinds of program or maybe up to 50%. Mr. Heibeck, are we able to just make that point to the administration just how important that is to make these very smart investments, in my opinion, into these small airports? Because again, ironically, it's not about politics, but all of those three communities that I referenced, they're all in Red County. So that to me, flying should be safer and it's bipartisan. So it's honestly, I think these kinds of investments are just smart and that's economic development and that, so if you have an address, but that might be possible for those cuts.
Mr. Heibeck (01:47:16):
Yes, Senator Fetterman, as a fellow in Pennsylvania, I share your interest in the small rural airports in Pennsylvania. We in airports do invest or make significant investments in small airports through our small airport fund and other grant programs. The Essential Air Service program is administered by the Department of Transportation, and I'm happy to take your message back to our colleagues.
Speaker 1 (01:47:45):
Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I mean I had the pleasure of meeting with the head of the Lancaster airport and now it's like they really want to make these kinds of upgrades and I fully support that. I grew up in York, so I know how close that area. That's an incredible amenity. So for me, again, it's really just about serving all the Pennsylvanians and have access to air travel. But otherwise, no, thank you. And I see that back to the chair. Thank you all, both of you.
Senator Ted Cruz (01:48:14):
Thank you. Senator Blunt Rochester.
Speaker 2 (01:48:18):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you so much to the witnesses. I have to say most of my colleagues have noted that we are at a critical juncture for aviation safety, for the sake of our families, our constituents, the flying public, and we must ensure that the FAA is equipped with every tool necessary to meet the mission, to provide the safest, most efficient aerospace system in the world. We know that we have seen some recent catastrophic incidents and near misses, and they have only underscored the urgency of strengthening oversight, improving coordination and updating equipment including the FAA's IT systems. But we can't lose sight of the fact that there are other significant variables that drive this crisis, like the lack of a robust and well-supported aviation workforce. I just left another hearing where one of the nominees said that their son is now an air traffic controller, and that was some good news to hear. And as the former Secretary of Labor in the state of Delaware, I also was head of state personnel and I know that a well-prepared workforce is really the lifeblood of any organization. So I was pleased to see the inclusion of the aviation workforce development provisions in the reauthorization. And I wanted to just ask some questions about workforce planning. We know that we have an issue beyond air traffic controllers and aviation safety inspectors, and I was curious if you could talk a little bit about your workforce planning. I know in your testimony it says, "We are reviewing our hiring, training and placement processes as well as the FAA Academy withdrawals and failures to ensure our selection methods effectively identified candidates best suited for the controller profession." So could you talk to me about what you're seeing in terms of people who are retiring, resigning? Where are your shortfalls? Where are those areas where you really need the help?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:50:43):
Thank you for the question. If you're all right, can I take this one? Okay. So as far as recruitment for our best and our brightest, right now, our academy success rate is not where we would like it to be. We would like it to be much, much higher because quite honestly, if we're washing out 35% or 30%, we need to do better because we need more of those people in the field facilities to do that. So I believe what you're referring to is what we call an air traffic skills assessment, and that's basically judges somebody's cognitive skills and ability to multitask being an air traffic controller. And we want to review that asset test to make sure that it's identifying the right candidates that would have a high probability of success to be an air traffic controller. It does take some time to hire, select, and go through the medical process and the security process. Even though Secretary Duffy has done some things to speed that along, we still want to make sure that those selections have a higher rate of success.
(01:51:43)
If we were able to gain another two or 300 of those candidates and put them in the air traffic system, that would help with some of our staffing shortfalls. And speaking with a lot of my friends who are my age, we actually went through training together at field facilities and they still love the job. They love being an air traffic controller. Their big thing right now is we need more staffing because they're getting tired and I think we owe them a better quality of life. I do feel that the new CRWG numbers that with the help or our partnership with NACA that we've implemented is definitely going to help that. And we're also waiting for the Transportation Research Board to provide their recommendations for our staffing model. And when that's implemented, we'll be in a better place. But the good news is with the new CRWG numbers, that's going to bridge that shortfall and we're putting enough people in the pipeline to actually give those controllers and those managers that better quality of life than I'm speaking to.
Speaker 2 (01:52:41):
Thank you. Also, in your testimony, you talked about leveraging partnerships with approved colleges and universities. Delaware State University has an incredible aviation program. Can you talk to us a little bit about who you are leveraging these partnerships with?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:52:57):
Right now, we're willing to leverage and partner with any university that has interest in the collegiate training initiative. And if they want to take it one step further and do what we call the Enhanced Collegiate Training Initiative, that's where they have simulation training and enough of the training that would essentially equal to what they would get at our FAA Academy. If colleges are wishing to do that, we will go assess, and if they do pass those standards, we will actually accredit them. And students who go through this program will no longer have to go through the academy. If they go through the program and successfully complete it and pass an AT-SA test and of course receive the necessary medical clearance and the necessary security clearance, then they bypass the academy and they're placed at an FAA facility.
Speaker 2 (01:53:42):
So for the record, questions for the record will be, number one, would love to understand what are the partnerships, would love to see the list of the partnerships. Secondly, would love to follow up with the program that we have at Delaware State University. Again, it's an aviation program, which I think is really, really important. And lastly, understand a little bit more how are you getting them in the door. What are the things that are getting them? I know you've mentioned financial incentives, but also mentioned that there are more creative things that you're doing here. So would love to follow up with you on the workforce aspect of it as well. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your patience. And I yield back.
Senator Ted Cruz (01:54:26):
Thank you. One final question and we're going to wrap up. Airspace around Austin-Bergstrom International Airport has been impacted by a shortage of air traffic controllers assigned to that facility. The FAA bill included several provisions intended to improve air traffic controller staffing, and yet my staff recently received a report that Austin-Bergstrom Airport has only 33 air traffic controllers while the FAA recommends that it have a total of 60 controllers. I'm concerned about the impact that this will have on Texas airspace. Mr. McIntosh, how is the FAA air traffic organization working to fix air traffic control staffing issues across the country, including specifically at Austin-Bergstrom Airport?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:55:11):
Thank you for the question, Senator Cruz. And as you can probably tell, Austin is near and dear to my heart. I know that I spoke a lot about how we're fixing the broader issue of fixing the controller staffing that we have through supercharged hiring that Mr. Duffy has started. To answer your question, the FAA along with our NACA partners were proactive in increasing the numbers at Austin. The CPC numbers at Austin was 42, and to your point, we realized that the traffic was growing. So we proactively raised their numbers to 60, which is their new CRWG numbers, well ahead the implementation. So when you say 33 out of 42, that doesn't sound so bad. 33 out of 60 sounds terrible. And that is something where I want to gauge our growth in CPCs versus percentages because I think that is where we have to bridge that gap. But by proactively change or increasing that number, Senator, what that allowed us to do was drive more trainees into that facility, and that was the goal.
Senator Ted Cruz (01:56:25):
We've actually got a vote closing on the floor. So sir, I thank you for that answer, sir, but I want to ask you to make it a priority to make sure that the air traffic controllers are there in Austin.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (01:56:34):
It is a priority, sir,
Senator Ted Cruz (01:56:36):
I want to thank each of the witnesses for your testimony. Senators will have until the close of business on Wednesday, May 21st to submit questions for the record. And actually, I'm not going to close it out. I'm going to hand it over to Senator Sheehy to ask as many questions as he likes and then to close it out. But I'm going to run and go vote. So congratulations, Mr. Chairman.
Speaker 3 (01:56:57):
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We're both junior senators from our state, so when we're chairman, it's a special event. Thanks witnesses for being here today. Thank you for the work you're doing at the FAA. I'm a lifelong pilot aviation business owner, commercial pilot instructor, and I've long told folks that the FAA is one of the beacons of light in the federal government. Sometimes dealing with the federal government can be highly frustrating, but I've always felt the FAA was a very competent organization and also very customer-friendly for the most part. But we all know that frankly, largely through no fault of your own, largely through the fault of this great legislative body for decades on end, we haven't really addressed these sclerotic issues that we've been talking about for decades, as many of you alluded to in your statements. So unfortunately, events like the Colgan crash in 2009 and our DC disaster just a couple of months ago, that's what the public sees and that's what the public feels.
(01:57:57)
But most of us knows those events, although the final seconds are caused by something, a mechanical failure or human error, normally it's organizational failures that have built up over years and years that start that accident chain in the beginning. And no one knows that better than career FAA folks like yourself and of course our friends at the NTSB. But many of these stressors that we're all feeling every day, whether it's outdated air traffic control systems, whether it's not enough controllers, not enough pilots, not enough maintainers, not enough FAA designated pile examiners or air [inaudible 01:58:29] representatives, I mean you name it. There's basically a shortage in every key manpower category that we need to stay innovative in aviation. And one of my biggest concerns as the mother and father for aviation, as America's the birthplace for aviation aerospace, these challenges that we're facing across the board are driving aviation innovation to other parts of the world.
(01:58:53)
Part 23, for example, which I understand doesn't fall necessarily under your purview directly, but part 23 has been a challenge to certify a new clean sheet aircraft for so long that we're seeing places like Brazil and Asia and Europe actually become now the hotbeds for next generation aviation development. And that's a concern us all, because if we're not the leaders of aviation anymore, that means somebody else is. And that's bad for all of us. But specifically here, I don't have a whole lot of local questions, although I do have a couple of Montana-specific questions. But every time there's been the attempt to do the vast reorientation of the FAA, which of course does involve some private sector partnership, the term privatization is plastered over every billboard and in every hearing. And the effort is very quickly mobbed and killed by various different constituencies who do not want privatization to ever happen.
(01:59:46)
And of course there's a role for the government to always play in this, but how can we leverage private industry to hasten our ATC upgrades, which we've known have been coming for decades that should have happened years ago. How do we use private industry to make sure our local airports, be they regional or large commercial facilities, are being upgraded and managed properly? And how do we leverage private partners to fix our dire staffing shortages, like taking the controller population we have in the military and helping them more quickly transition to civilian controllers? So no particular individual, but I'd like to hear your idea specifically on how we can leverage private industry to help us hasten the solutions to those problems.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (02:00:29):
I'll speak to partnering with our military partners and having air traffic controllers. It is something that we a hundred percent agree with and it's something we've already signed up to do. Senator, I was a former military controller and I was actually a benefactor of being hired directly by the FAA. I did not have to go to the FAA Academy based on my credentials and I was able to go straight to an FAA facility. We are partnering with the military as well as looking at possibly using some of their simulations over at Keesler Air Force Base to kind of improve some of our throughput at the academy. That's one of the things that we're looking at to help increase some of those staffing shortages and get people through. I definitely feel partnering with some of our DoD partners is something that we can leverage.
Ms. Baker (02:01:11):
And likewise in aviation safety, we definitely have relationships with military and trying to facilitate paths to bring folks who have learned their skills in the military over to commercial aviation, whether it's through a restricted ATP with the military credit, whether it's through programs we're exploring right now about how do we transition military mechanics to get into the civilian system more easily. So there's definitely a role there, I think around private partnerships, the fact that there is so much innovation happening in aviation, the opportunity for us to partner with the aviation innovators on training, we do what we call aviation skills enhancement with our engineering. Where our engineers can go and go to these new manufacturers and new aircraft designers so that we can see and learn from them what they're doing and how they're doing it.
(02:02:02)
I think that's a great opportunity for us. And also as we're developing the new regulatory structure, new standards, new guidance, working with the industry via either formalized structure like aviation rulemaking committees or informal structure like Industry Days helps us learn more rapidly and helps us understand both where the system is going and how to manage the risks that are presenting themselves in the system. So I think there's a great role for partnership with the industry.
Speaker 3 (02:02:27):
Well, and safety always has to be paramount, but safety has to work hand in hand with the ability to operate effectively. You can safety anything to death. You can find a reason not to fly, if you want to be safe you just don't fly.
Ms. Baker (02:02:38):
Don't fly.
Speaker 3 (02:02:39):
Exactly. So ultimately, we're always told safety will always rule the day, but ultimately have to get to where we're going. We have to move the cargo, have to complete the mission. So if we want to be ultimately safe, then we don't fly and we have to fly. That's the point of our national airspace system, which I'll add is the most advanced, safest in the history of the world. We should be very, very proud of what we have. I don't want to pile on and speak ill of what we've built because it is an incredible system, but it is straining under itself. We have to make sure we're evolving it. And to that end, after the Colgan crash in 2009, this body, I wasn't a part of it then, of course, but passed a law for the 1500-hour pilot rule. And if you know what the pilot hours were for both the pilots in the cockpit that day of that terrible event, it was about 3000 and 2500.
Ms. Baker (02:03:24):
I don't remember. I knew it wasn't 1500.
Speaker 3 (02:03:26):
Yeah. So 1500 had nothing to do with that accident and nothing to do with those pilots and their experience. The fact that they had… It was one case over double the amount of hours that the new law instituted really had nothing to do with that accident. So I think it's very important for you all to make very clear, candid responses to us so we don't make new laws that actually don't help the problem, it makes it worse. And I think within the agency, for example, recently the ability to do experimental aircraft operations used to be delegated to DARs. And recently that was changed to where now a FSDO has to directly sign off on an experimental certificate being hung on an aircraft. On the surface that seems logical, we're adding another safety barrier. But the truth is that's just adding more bureaucracy to a process.
(02:04:15)
That's a perfect example of why folks want innovate elsewhere now is because we're making that application process to experiment with new aviation technologies harder to do here. And that's a small example, but I think it's a indicator of at times the bureaucracy getting in the way of some common sense, specifically for ATC systems. We hear a lot about radars and copper wire. How do we quickly evaluate and implement the more advanced and modern, in many cases, more accurate satellite based, ADSP capability, automated flight following where we can open our for flight apps and see aircraft moving in real time with pretty great precision and start injecting that technology in addition to real-time data sharing with the aircraft?
(02:05:03)
So we see that a lot in Europe now where instead of voice communications, which as we saw with DCA can be stepped on, they can be garbled, they can be misheard, they can be misread back when the data is actually sent to the aircraft with their flight path instructions. It's much harder to have an error based on that. How do we start adopting those things quickly in American airspace and is more private sector involvement the answer for that?
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (02:05:26):
In regards to issuing a command to an aircraft versus a pilot and accepting that that's, we call that datacom part of the next-gen technology. And that has been implemented in all of our 20 centers that are within the CONUS. And we are expecting full IOC, meaning full operations capability here within the year. And that's a very conservative estimate. I expect it to be much more aggressive than that. So the good news is that has been used and we are getting some very good feedback on how that is using. We also have our ability to upload clearances to aircraft at the gates without having to do a verbal transmission. We call that CPDLC, getting very positive feedback on that as well. So I do believe a lot of these technologies that you're seeing while it's taken a long time to actually get it implemented, it's actually coming to fruition now.
Speaker 3 (02:06:13):
Great. Any other comments on those points or questions? And then finally what I'd say is some of our rural airports, which you hear a lot about here, obviously Senator Sullivan from Alaska has a very unique position. But it's true also in places like Montana where I'm from, where we do have airports where the most critical service they provide to some of these rural and tribal communities is medevac where they could be in multiple hours drive from a hospital. Our ability to get aircraft in there and get them to a facility quickly is dependent on their access to air. And implementing some of our newer GPS approaches to some of these airfields that aren't going to be able to afford an ILS system, but that also depends on radar capability and ADC capability from some of our regional airports like Helena, which is only one of two regional airports in the country that does not have radar service.
(02:07:00)
So as part of this modernization effort, I agree we have to prioritize incredibly congested areas like DCA and of course Newark and others, but for many of our rural communities, this is key. So I'd ask for your commitment to look into that, and I'd also ask just for general open-mindedness. Sometimes open-mindedness and non-conventional thinking don't go hand in hand with safety in the traditional sense. But the truth is we have to start re-imagining how the FAA can operate in the 21st century. And that means looking at our FARs, thinking how they fit better around the more broader envelope of aviation we're seeing now from UAS to now new types of aerial vehicles that are going to start challenging our existing systems in different ways.
(02:07:46)
So thanks for your testimony today. I appreciate you taking the time to speak to us, and thanks for all the work you're doing.
Mr. Franklin McIntosh (02:07:52):
Thank you, Senator.
Speaker 3 (02:07:57):
All right, we'll close out the hearing. Thank of the witnesses for the testimony today. Senators will allow until close the business on Wednesday, May 21st to submit questions for the record. Witness will allow until close the business on Wednesday, June 4th to respond to those questions. This concludes today's hearing. The committee stands adjourned.
