Noem Testifies on DHS Budget

Chairman Paul (00:00):

… research right here on U.S. soil. Under your leadership, the department has begun producing subpoenaed records revealing deeply concerning experiments with biological threat agents. In one case, researchers proposed combining elements of two weakened anthrax strains to re-engineer a version capable of causing disease again. These are experiments that we cannot countenance.

(00:26)
You heard that right. DHS was using taxpayer dollars to try to recreate a fully virulent anthrax strain by engineering it from less dangerous components. That sure sounds like gain-of-function to me. At the National Biodefense Analysis and Countermeasures Center, also known as NBACC, scientists have conducted repeated experiments aerosolizing some of the world's deadliest pathogens, the plague, Ebola, and more, exploring how to increase their lethality and transmissibility. We have documents indicating these experiments have continued during the Biden administration.

(01:06)
NBACC, the lab, sits adjacent to NIH's Integrated Research Facility at Fort Detrick, the very same facility where just recently Secretary Kennedy and Director Bhattacharya halted research following a disturbing biosafety instance in which a researcher intentionally slashed another's biosafety suit while handling Ebola. Inexcusable. Afterwards, DHS personnel were reportedly seen padlocking freezers inside the NIH lab.

(01:38)
So naturally, I want to know what exactly is the relationship between DHS and NIH at Fort Detrick? What overlap exists between their work? It shouldn't take a personal altercation and a compromised biosafety suit to initiate oversight, but here we are. And why is the Department of Homeland Security, an agency meant to defend the homeland, conducting experiments with pathogens capable of killing millions, in the first place? These are questions, and the taxpayers deserve answers.

(02:12)
Some might say it's about preparedness, but when does preparedness cross the line into recklessness? At what point does an attempt to prevent catastrophe actually increase the likelihood of one? This is only the tip of the iceberg of the reckless research quietly being funded out of the Department of Homeland Security, some of it conducted on behalf of other federal agencies under the agency's Work for Others Program, obscuring the ability of Congress and the public to follow the money.

(02:45)
This isn't just a domestic safety concern. It's a diplomatic one. DHS conducts internal arms control compliance assessments to evaluate whether its projects could violate or appear to violate the Biological Weapons Convention. If DHS is engaging in high-risk virus research that could lead to a catastrophic leak or could be perceived as U.S. violating the Biological Weapons Convention, then the department isn't securing the homeland. It's endangering it.

(03:15)
That's why Congress must pass my Bipartisan Risky Research Review Act to establish independent oversight of federally funded gain-of-function research and other potentially dangerous studies. We don't even have a universally accepted definition of gain-of-function allowing researchers to pick and choose the standards that suit them. That's not real oversight.

(03:38)
Secretary Noem, I appreciate your demonstrated commitment to reversing the obstruction of your predecessor and pushing back on efforts by entrenched bureaucrats within the department to delay, redact, and resist oversight. You've inherited a difficult task, restoring accountability to a department that has strayed from its founding mission. This is a pivotal moment. I look forward to continue to work with you to bring about long-overdue transparency to the American people. Thank you. And I recognize the ranking member.

Senator Peters (04:09):

Thank you, Chairman Paul. Secretary Noem, thank you for joining us today. The Department of Homeland Security is responsible for a number of critical missions that safeguard our nation, from preventing terrorism, to cyber attacks, to securing our northern as well as southern borders, and of course, responding to natural disasters. In a disappointing departure from prior administrations, including President Trump's first administration, we are holding today's hearing to discuss the department's budget needs without having received a detailed budget request from the president or briefing from the department's components about their budget needs. However, we have seen in just a few short months under the Trump administration, how the department has undergone tremendous changes.

(04:59)
I have serious concerns that some of these changes are harming rather than helping the department in its mission to protect the safety and the security of all Americans. For example, as we head into hurricane season and the wildfire season, the administration has halted critical FEMA programs that support flood mitigation and slashed staff who focus on disaster relief. These are critical resources for states in the aftermath of a natural disaster, and the administration has provided little or no justification for these changes.

(05:36)
FEMA has even internally acknowledged that it is not ready for hurricane season, which starts in just 11 days, and despite that, the administration is still planning on shifting the burden for disaster response to state and local governments, which will put Americans at grave risk the next time disaster strikes, which is inevitable.

(05:57)
Similarly, at a time when we are facing increasing threats from cyber attacks, the administration plans to drastically cut our nation's primary cybersecurity agency, CISA. CISA is supposed to be finalizing a rule required by law that this committee passed to improve cyber incident reporting to better protect our critical infrastructure from attacks, yet reporting indicates that 700 CISA employees have taken deferred resignation under pressure from this administration. CISA's work on election security has stopped, and the agency's advisory committees have been shuttered. These actions make us less prepared to address cybersecurity attacks. The administration also proposes cutting $247 million from the Transportation Security Administration's budget to reduce the number of front-line TSA agents. At a time when air travel is at an all-time high and we are entering the busy summer travel season, these cuts only threaten to make our skies and the flying travelers less secure.

(07:05)
At the same time, the administration has also cut congressionally-mandated oversight offices that protect the civil rights and civil liberties of individuals who interact with DHS components. These offices were put in place to ensure that DHS personnel can conduct their important national security missions effectively while safeguarding the rights of the people in this country.

(07:28)
Shutting these offices down not only puts Americans at risk, it also is a violation of the Homeland Security Act itself. Despite several inquiries into your office for more information, I have yet to receive sufficient explanation for these actions.

(07:43)
I also have serious concerns about this administration's inappropriate use of the U.S. military for domestic immigration enforcement and the outrageous use of taxpayer dollars, which I will be asking questions about, for detention at Guantanamo Bay. Certainly, anyone concerned about prudent use of taxpayer money should be outraged by what's happening down there.

(08:04)
Our nation faces a multitude of homeland security challenges, and this committee has always been willing to work to address them on a bipartisan basis. Secretary Noem, when we first met prior to your confirmation, you gave me a commitment that you would work with me to address the many threats facing our nation, and I hope today's hearing will be an honest discussion about the resources the department needs to do just that, and I welcome having that kind of discussion.

(08:32)
I would hope that we would be able to have that discussion in a way that we have done in this committee, in a bipartisan way, for as long as I can remember, where our first round would be seven minutes and then a second round would be five minutes. Certainly, Chairman Paul, I would hope you would continue to do the precedent that I've always known. When Senator Johnson was chair of the committee, he always made sure that everybody had seven minutes.

(08:52)
Certainly, Homeland Security is a primary concern for you, Madam Secretary, and for all of us, and I'm not sure why the chair is insisting on five minutes. I know you're fully capable of answering for seven minutes, and you shouldn't be concerned about it, but apparently, the Chairman is concerned about that extra time.

(09:09)
So Mr. Chairman, I'd hope we'd get seven minutes on the first round, and then five as we always have as long as this committee has been in existence.

(09:17)
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and look forward to seven-minute rounds.

Chairman Paul (09:20):

It is the practice of the committee to swear in witnesses. Secretary Noem, please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear the testimony you will give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Kristi Noem (09:36):

I do.

Chairman Paul (09:50):

Secretary Noem, thank you for appearing today. As you know, I've been concerned for a long time about gain-of-function research. I commend the president and the administration for having an executive order to stop it. Some of the problems are in the definitions of it. Anthony Fauci said, "If it's an animal virus, it cannot be gain-of-function." And yet animal viruses can be trained to infect humans, and we think that's what happened ultimately with COVID-19.

(10:18)
We think some of the dangerous research is going on at the lab controlled by DHS. Have you begun to look into this? I know Secretary Kennedy said that you and he will be going out, and I've requested permission to attend that as you go out to look at these labs.

(10:32)
Have you looked at these labs yet to get a feeling for what gain-of-function?

Senator Peters (10:36):

Mr. Chairman, are we going to have opening comments from the secretary or are we skipping that as well?

Chairman Paul (10:40):

Oh, I've neglected that. I went right into questions without-

Kristi Noem (10:43):

That's all right.

Chairman Paul (10:43):

… doing that. So let's start again.

Kristi Noem (10:45):

It's your committee, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Paul (10:46):

Let's start again. Secretary Noem, you are recognized for your remarks.

Kristi Noem (10:49):

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Ranking Member Peters, for the honor of allowing me to be here today. Thank you to all the senators for your participation and oversight into the Department of Homeland Security. I'm looking forward to visiting with you about all of the accomplishments that we've been able to tackle these first several months of this Trump administration.

(11:09)
I'm also blessed to have my husband with me today, so I thank him for his support and my family's support as well as I fill this role for our country. Having previously served eight years as a member of Congress, it's my distinct honor to be on this side of the dais today as the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.

(11:26)
Today, I'm proud to discuss all of our accomplishments since President Trump took office, and he has set us a full agenda as a priority. High on the list is the mandate, and was the mandate on the very first day, to secure our southern border and to start deporting illegal criminal aliens. The border crisis is the biggest problem that was facing our country, and it was one that was imperative to fixing for our nation's future.

(11:50)
We're solving this crisis at a record pace, and we have delivered the most secure border in American history. We've obtained near complete operational control of the border with daily encounters down 93% since President Trump took office, and because we're fixing this biggest challenge so quickly, President Trump can focus on other priorities as well and problems that are facing the American people.

(12:12)
Let's just look at the last 10 days. Last week, he signed a historic prescription drug reduction in pricing executive order that will slash prices for the American people. After that, he went on a trip to completely rewrite America's relationship with the Middle East. During this trip, he secured trillions of dollars of new investments in the United States with several Middle Eastern countries.

(12:35)
He's also taking steps towards rebuilding our relationship with Syria. The last living American hostage held by Hamas, Edan Alexander, was finally released and returned home to his family. He announced major new trade deals with both China and the United Kingdom, and just yesterday, President Trump jump-started ceasefire talks between Russia and Ukraine. With only the kind of leadership that President Trump could provide, we prevented the breakout of an all-out war between India and Pakistan.

(13:03)
These historic accomplishments were possible because President Trump confronted right away the chaos at the southern border. President Trump can continue to not only make America safe, but he can also continue to work to make the entire world safer. Now at the Department of Homeland Security under President Trump, we've already delivered a drastic turnaround in homeland security, from the southern border, to our Coast Guard, to cyberspace, and we're just getting started.

(13:31)
The secure border has allowed our men and women of law enforcement at DHS to zero in on fighting cartels and their illicit activities. Under President Trump, we have designated six cartels and four dangerous criminal gangs as foreign terrorist organizations. This has allowed us to take a whole-of-government approach to going after these murderers and these drug traffickers.

(13:52)
In March, fentanyl traffic at the border fell 54% compared to the previous year, and once again, the United States is enforcing immigration laws to arrest, identify, detain, and remove criminals. We're prioritizing those that are a public safety threat to people, especially those who are affiliated with the terrorist organizations, MS-13 and Tren de Aragua.

(14:14)
Customs and Border Protection has worked to enforce President Trump's America First trade agenda, and the Biden administration's trade policies that hollowed out America's industrial base have been changed. We are no longer shipping our jobs overseas, instead we're using tariffs as an effective negotiating tool.

(14:32)
The Department of Homeland Security is reforming emergency management in this country. We have the FEMA Review Council, which will be doing the work to make recommendations and also work with this body to change the department into something that actually gives more local and state control, and that first council meeting is today.

(14:51)
We are also taking steps to defend the nation's transportation systems, which are vulnerable targets for attack. The Transportation Security Administration is responsible for ensuring all of the safety of individuals who travel. In a single day, there are 45,000 flights and nearly 2.9 million Americans and passengers in the United States.

(15:12)
We're also fulfilling our obligation and did do so to implement REAL ID which was enacted and put in law over 20 years ago. Validated IDs, secure travel safeguard our elections and help make sure that we never experience another tragedy like 9/11 again. And as technology advances, so do the threats to our nation. That's why cybersecurity is so crucial to our future.

(15:36)
Countries like Communist China have the capability and the intent to infiltrate and to potentially disrupt our critical infrastructure systems. Despite these threats, the Biden administration instead used CISA to promote politics and police speech. Under President Trump, we've been working to get CISA back on its intended cybersecurity mission.

(15:56)
The Coast Guard is the only branch of the U.S. Armed Forces that is under the umbrella of the Department of Homeland Security. It has many missions with specialized needs, and as we secure our southern border, the cartels have shifted their activities out into our maritime borders. The Coast Guard has already surpassed fiscal year 2024's drug interdiction numbers just since President Trump took office, and they have also excelled at search and rescue while interdiction of illicit substances as well.

(16:25)
Still, the Coast Guard is facing our greatest readiness crisis since World War II. We have a plan to reinvigorate this critical component to make sure they're ready for the future. With Force Design 2028, we will transform the Coast Guard into a more agile, capable, and responsive force. We're making sure that they have the resources and that they have the vision to lead and to be the point of the spear in the future.

(16:51)
Now, since I took office, one of the responsibilities that I have is in reforming the Secret Service. We've reassessed the Secret Service's needs. We've gotten recruitment away from DEI recruitment that the Biden administration was doing, and we're making sure that they're equipped and ready to take on the task of protecting our future leaders and the leaders of today.

(17:10)
So, Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you and thank this committee for your time today and allowing me to get the facts out into this important issues and topics that we'll be discussing today and to visit with this committee. I'm so grateful to the men and women of the Department of Homeland Security for all the good work they're doing to serve the American public, their examples of bravery and patriotism and dedication. It's our responsibility to continue to provide for them the resources that they need to continue doing the important work that they do.

(17:37)
And with that, Mr. Chairman, I look forward to answering your questions, and I yield back.

Chairman Paul (17:46):

Well, great. You've got a preview of my questions since I went out of order.

Kristi Noem (17:48):

I did. That's good. That's all right.

Chairman Paul (17:49):

But NBACC, the National Biodefense Analysis and Countermeasures Center out there by Fort Detrick, we're concerned they're still doing some dangerous research out there and it needs more oversight. Do you have any update for us on that?

Kristi Noem (18:02):

I do, and I want to thank the chairman for bringing a lot of history to my knowledge of this lab and the work that it was doing, and I appreciate Secretary Kennedy's input as well.

(18:14)
Yes. We do have a visit planned in the future here in the next 10 days to two weeks with Secretary Kennedy to look into the work that this lab is doing and if it is appropriate for the Department of Homeland Security to be engaged in that. I think your concerns have created some oversight that is very helpful and will be helpful in making sure that they're doing correct research that actually is beneficial and not research that's been abused in the past.

Chairman Paul (18:41):

So the president has banned gain-of-function, and as you and I have discussed, it's important that someone can simply come forward who disagrees and says, "Well, this doesn't meet the definition of gain-of-function." This is essentially what Anthony Fauci did when everybody said the research in Wuhan was gain-of-function. They were taking an animal virus. They were running it through an animal model with human lungs over and over again and adapting it to be infectious in humans. That is gain-of-function.

(19:06)
So the people and personnel make a difference, and so what I would ask is as you ask the career people out there who've been doing the experiments, you realize that their natural tendency is to want to keep doing what they've been doing. So I think it's going to take scrutiny, new people, new scientists, consultants to look at each one of these and say, "Don't just tell me you're not doing it. Give me a list of 20 or 30 experiments. What are you doing?"

(19:29)
As an example of that, we've been sending records requests for three years, and we got nothing until you came into office, and I hope that you will be looking at our records requests. They're all dated in time, some of them by five Republicans, some of them by Republicans and Democrats, and they were just routinely ignored.

(19:47)
Have you had a chance to look at the chain of questioning here to see if there's anybody that was actually purposely obstructing us?

Kristi Noem (19:55):

Yeah. So I thank you for asking those questions and talking about the follow-up to members of Congress, senators and representatives. My predecessor didn't respond to anybody. It didn't matter if you were a Republican or a Democrat. He didn't respond to your letters and your oversight, and I've tasked all of my people with changing that about our Department of Homeland Security, that we will be responsive to Congress.

(20:17)
We've given you about 50,000 pages, I think, so far of information, and we continue to get and gather more data and facts that we can return to you so you can conduct oversight. What I would say is between NIH and the Department of Homeland Security, there are no research projects ongoing right now today or that we've been able to find as far as projects they were doing together.

(20:38)
We did have a couple of employees that were contracted for their specialty backgrounds that have done work over at NIH before, but that kind of oversight needs to happen, and I think it's important that we have an independent outside source that also is reviewing the work that they do.

Chairman Paul (20:53):

As you're collecting the records, I would just ask that you ask the people why wasn't it given before, and see if you can find where the chain of command ended. Were their people purposely not giving us the records because they really shouldn't be employed by government?

(21:07)
Secretary Mayorkas told us repeatedly that there was no censorship going on, that CISA wasn't doing anything. They weren't involved with speech. We know from the Twitter Files, they were.

(21:17)
Have you uncovered any internal communications or activities that contradict their testimony with regard to the government being involved in censorship?

Kristi Noem (21:26):

Yes, sir. We have literally found thousands of documents that have proven that they were involved in censorship and policing speech, so we will be unveiling these to this committee and making sure we're exposing what CISA was doing with a vast majority of its time of certain employees.

(21:44)
Some of the discussion I think we'll have here today is about us getting CISA back on mission and some of the reductions in staff that have been over there, and that's reflective in the fact that many of them were doing work that they shouldn't have been doing.

Chairman Paul (21:56):

I hope you'll look at our bill, the Risky Research Review Act. Administrations do a lot of things and a lot of good things, and then they go away when the next administration comes in. The good thing about this legislation, it would be a presidential commission of scientists to define in a continual basis what is or isn't gain-of-function, to rule on that.

(22:14)
It's been voted upon in a bipartisan way. It was a unanimous vote out of this committee. It's one of the few things in Congress we actually, I think, have bipartisan support for. So we hope the administration will look at that and consider making a public endorsement of that, that way we can make permanent the things you're trying to do to constrain gain- of-function.

(22:30)
Thank you for your testimony. And with that, I recognize Senator Peter.

Kristi Noem (22:34):

Thank you.

Senator Peters (22:36):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary Noem, thank you for being here again before the committee today. I also appreciated the time we spent yesterday morning on the phone discussing a variety of issues, and I look forward to those kinds of discussions continuing in the future.

Kristi Noem (22:51):

Absolutely.

Senator Peters (22:54):

As you know, the protections for sharing information under the Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act of 2015, confusingly referred to as CISA 2015, but it deals with the information sharing, expires at the end of September.

(23:08)
This is a critical authority that applies to information sharing across the federal government, not only to CISA, the agency, but it also allows the agency the ability to have robust and timely cyber-threat information shared between public and private sectors, as well as among private sector companies so folks have an understanding of the threat landscape that's out there and have full awareness of what's coming at them by nefarious actors.

(23:34)
Does the administration support the extension of this incredibly important authority that I've been hearing about from a number of stakeholders that they're very concerned it's going to expire? Does the administration support the extension?

Kristi Noem (23:46):

Yes, we do. Thank you, Senator Peters. It's a very important piece of legislation, does endorse it for 10 more years, which I think is a long enough timeframe for us to really make sure that we have the stability we need in this area to create those kind of partnerships you were talking about with private industry.

(24:03)
We need their expertise and their knowledge and their interaction with those across the world that hate the United States of America to come in and cooperate with us to make sure we're prepared to secure our systems and our critical infrastructure.

Senator Peters (24:15):

Great. Well, I look forward to your support and the administration's support so we can pass the 10-year extension before it expires. You're absolutely right how critical it is.

(24:24)
Secretary Noem, I'm also concerned about the increasing number of security threats that we're seeing from drone incursions to public spaces, to airports, critical infrastructure sites all across our country, as we spoke about yesterday morning. Just last week, a man in Michigan was arrested after he allegedly tried to attack the U.S. Army's Tank Automotive and Armaments Command Facility at the Detroit Arsenal in Warren.

(24:49)
According to prosecutors, the man flew a drone over the facility to conduct operational reconnaissance, further highlighting the need to ensure that law enforcement is properly resourced to deal with this growing threat. While I understand that there are safety concerns with the technology that need to be addressed by the FAA, I would like for all of us to work together to reauthorize DHS and DOJ's counter-drone authorities that also expire at the end of September because this threat, as you know, is not going away.

(25:23)
Last Congress, Senator Johnson and I introduced the bill, S.1631, that I think is a good starting point. So my question for you, Secretary Noem, is can I get your commitment that we can work together to not only reauthorize these authorities on a long-term basis, but actually strengthen those authorities to make sure we deal with this persistent threat?

Kristi Noem (25:44):

Yes, Senator Peters. I'll take a look at your legislation specifically, but we do need to reauthorize the authorities that we do have in order to address not just our homeland security day-to-day activities, but we're hosting some very large events in this country that will, I think, challenge our ability to secure that many large events at one time.

(26:04)
So having those kinds of authorities and addressing what we can do to cooperate with states and local governments and cities in locations where big events happen would be very important to do that. So you're right. The expansion of those authorities needs to be looked at to make sure it's appropriate, but also gives us the tools we need to keep people safe.

(26:21)
We've got the Club Cup coming this summer, the World Cup next summer, which will be 10 million ticketed people, 22 million people that will be involved in the activities surrounding it, the Olympics coming. It's important we address this now so we can be proactive.

Senator Peters (26:38):

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I appreciate that. Senator Johnson and I would appreciate it. Our biggest supporter for our bill is actually the National Football League, who have real concerns about their games.

Kristi Noem (26:48):

Yep. That's right.

Senator Peters (26:48):

We've already had games interrupted, and it could be more serious at some point.

(26:53)
Secretary Noem, two weeks ago during a Senate appropriations hearing, you told me very clearly to the questions that I had that CISA was, "Back on mission." If this is accurate, my question is why is the administration proposing to cut $500 million from an agency's budget for an agency that's on mission right now when those activities you previously described as off mission, specifically election security work, cost about 20 million?

(27:23)
Those folks have been let go. They're no longer there. I can understand a cut of 20 million, but this is a cut of 500 million. So if you could tell this committee what specific activities or departments at CISA does the department plan to cut as a result of these very large proposed cuts, and if you could please give some specific examples of offices and programs?

(27:48)
As you know, the CISA statutory requirements are extensive. You have a lot on your plate. You have a lot to cover. You need to have resources to do that, but this is a pretty significant cut in funding, and we need to know exactly what protection will not be offered after these cuts go into effect.

Kristi Noem (28:05):

Yeah. We will continue to fulfill all the statutory requirements that the Department of Homeland Security has and has given to CISA in the work that it does. Putting it back on mission means that it fulfills the responsibility of why it was created, and that's to be the cybersecurity agency of the nation, to go out and secure our critical infrastructure, work with small and medium-sized businesses and states and localities to give them the insight and wisdom they need to make sure that they're not vulnerable to hackers or nefarious activity.

(28:36)
Getting rid of censorship, getting rid of the Ministry of Truth at CISA, the employees that were duplicative, that were fulfilling roles that wasn't related to cybersecurity was something that we addressed. I would say under the president's budget, cybersecurity is only strengthened, and we're doubling down on the need to build private and partner with those individual industries that have the expertise and knowledge that we've lacked for so long.

(29:03)
They're looking for some more abilities to do new things for this country as far as giving us insight into nefarious activities, but they do ask that we give them some level of protection from liabilities, and I think you're very familiar with some of their concerns. I want to work with you to see what we can do to address those needs so that we can have the information we need to really truly secure the country.

(29:26)
One of the biggest alarming things, and I think I've visited with you about this before, was that we still don't necessarily know how to stop the next Volt Typhoon, and private industry can help us with that with their knowledge. They see things that we don't, and that partnership could be strong and make sure that we're not just spending more dollars with no means to an end, that we actually have an end that relies and ends with a more secure United States of America.

Senator Peters (29:52):

I look forward to working with you on that. Thank you.

Kristi Noem (29:54):

You bet.

Chairman Paul (29:54):

Senator Johnson.

Senator Johnson (29:56):

Mr. Chairman, I'll point out the Ranking Member did get seven minutes.

Kristi Noem (29:59):

Sorry. Maybe-

Senator Johnson (30:00):

Madam Secretary-

Senator Peters (30:01):

No need to be sorry, Madam Secretary.

Senator Johnson (30:02):

Madam Secretary, welcome. Thank you for your service. I think you've probably seen this chart.

Kristi Noem (30:08):

Yes.

Senator Johnson (30:09):

Why don't you bring it a little bit closer here? For the first time, I've brought this chart, and it's showing good news. For the previous four years, it described a disaster, a catastrophe, a clear and present danger to this country. One of the reasons I want to put it up here is to point out how we were lied to during that entire four-year period by the administration, reinforced by our colleagues on the other side of the aisle saying we had to have Congress act. We needed legislation.

(30:37)
The fact of the matter is, no, we just needed a new president. We needed President Trump. Now, I would have been happy to pass a bill to reinforce President Biden's authority to secure the border, but he didn't want to. I think what's clear about this chart, as you can see, when President Biden was considering reelection, he realized the catastrophe at hand was becoming politically unpopular, and so he used the executive authority that President Trump had used to secure the border in his first term, and he started actually making progress on that.

(31:09)
So again, it's just important the American people understand that for four years, the Biden administration, reinforced by the folks on the other side of the aisle, lied bold-faced that President Biden didn't have the authority to secure the border. He wanted an open border. That's exactly what he got.

(31:26)
Now, the question I have for you off this chart is, in his first term, it took President Trump about 12 months to go from his peak of almost 5,000 encounters per day to a little over 500, Remain in Mexico, the agreements he had with the third countries, that type of thing. How could he do it so swiftly this time?

(31:46)
This is literally a matter of months. In February, it's 418 encounters per day on average. In March, it's 355. This is stunning success. I just want to get your reaction in terms of how he accomplished it and how you guys accomplished this.

Kristi Noem (32:02):

I would say, Senator, that the president used not only the laws that were already on the books and started enforcing them, he also made sure that he talked about it and messaged it. Throughout the campaign, he talked about the need for a secure border. What we need to remember constantly in this country is that the world listens to everything that we say and what our leaders say.

(32:23)
He told me specifically when he nominated me for this position, "I don't want you just to go and run the Department of Homeland Security, secure the border, and make sure that our agencies are back on mission. I want you to tell the world what we're doing because the only way they're going to stop coming to this country is if they know never to leave their home country. If they know that we're enforcing our laws, they will stop coming." And that's exactly what's happening

(32:46)
Because of our messaging, because of the fact that we have actively talked in Guatemala, in Honduras, in Mexico, about, "Don't come to the United States anymore illegally. There will be consequences," they have stayed

Kristi Noem (33:00):

… [inaudible 00:33:00] there. In fact, we're showing now in the Darién Gap that it's reverse migration, that people that got to Mexico never even made it to the border. Now they're turning around and going back home. When I was in Mexico visiting with the president there and with government leaders, she said specifically they think there could be 500 to 600,000 people that just stopped in Mexico that turned around that were never even encountered that reached our border.

(33:23)
I think that's why in March you saw less than 200 encounters a day, and it was a historic low for this country in encounters, and it was because not only did he enforce the laws and show there would be consequences if you broke our laws, which is what our country was built on. He also made sure that we talk to the American people about why we were doing it, that it was for our safety and for our future, and that also to these other countries, that it was no longer going to be the status quo of Joe Biden.

Senator Johnson (33:51):

And of course that's a sea change the Biden administration welcomed, I mean they encouraged and incentivized people to come here. So this is a budget hearing. I do want to ask, in the first Trump administration, I have best information, we built something like 458 miles of walls, cost about $6.6 billion, about $14 million per mile. Your budgetary request right now is for 46.5 billion, a lot more lot. That would at the same price build something more than 3,000 miles. So can you kind of square that circle or circle that square, whatever. Can you explain exactly what are you asking for in that 46.5 billion? Why is the request so high when we were able to build so many miles in the first term for a lot less?

Kristi Noem (34:41):

Well today the estimates are that building steel bollard wall will be over $12 million a mile, is what they're estimating. We have built about 70 miles of wall since the president has been in place, but that's been a mixture of permanent steel versus temporary versus a little bit of buoy barrier, where it's appropriate that are waterborne.

Senator Johnson (35:01):

So again, the 12 million is less than the 14 million I had calculated. That would be way more than 3,000 miles. Are you really planning on building 3,000 miles?

Kristi Noem (35:09):

The problem that we have at the border right now is that we have CBP cameras and towers that don't work. We have some authorities there with the FAA on infrastructure that helps us do surveillance of areas where there isn't a wall, that is not even operational. I would say one out of three actually are functioning today, which makes the individuals that are there work even harder. And we know that we talk about gotaways and what happens today. The truth is is that there's portions of this border that we still don't necessarily know what happens there 24/7, so we-

Senator Johnson (35:42):

We're $37 trillion in debt. I'm just going to ask that you and the department sharpen your pencil on that wall request. I think it's more than you need.

Kristi Noem (35:49):

Yes. Okay.

Senator Johnson (35:49):

Again, I'm happy to provide the support you need to secure the border, do the deportations, but we need to be very concerned about how much we're spending, and it needs to all be justified. Thank you.

Kristi Noem (36:00):

Thank you.

Chair Rand (36:00):

Senator Hassan.

Sen. Hassan (36:02):

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning, Madam Secretary. Secretary Noem, the White House Deputy Chief of Staff recently said that the Trump administration is actively looking at suspending habeas corpus. Last week you were asked about this, and I want to clarify your position because it's obviously really important to get this right. So Secretary Noem, what is habeas corpus?

Kristi Noem (36:26):

Well, habeas corpus is a constitutional right that the president has to be able to remove people from this country and suspend their right to, to suspend their right to-

Sen. Hassan (36:34):

Now let me stop you, ma'am. Habeas corpus, excuse me, that's incorrect.

Kristi Noem (36:38):

President Lincoln used it.

Sen. Hassan (36:40):

Excuse me. Habeas corpus is the legal principle that requires that the government provide a public reason for detaining and imprisoning people. If not for that protection, the government could simply arrest people, including American citizens and hold them indefinitely for no reason. Habeas corpus is the foundational right that separates free societies like America from police states like North Korea. As a senator from the live free or die state, this matters a lot to me and my constituents and to all Americans. So Secretary Noem, do you support the core protection that habeas corpus provides, that the government must provide a public reason in order to detain and imprison someone?

Kristi Noem (37:25):

I support habeas corpus. I also recognize that the President of the United States has the authority under the Constitution to decide if it should be suspended or not. Let us be clear though this president-

Sen. Hassan (37:36):

It has never been done without approval of Congress, even Abraham Lincoln got retroactive approval from Congress. So I have been asking executive branch nominees a simple question over the past few months - if the president orders them to break the law, I've been asking, will you follow the law or follow the order? I want to ask you a more specific question here. If the president tries to suspend habeas corpus and a federal court reverses the president's order, will you comply with the court order and uphold habeas corpus or will you follow the president's directive?

Kristi Noem (38:09):

We are following all federal court orders, and are complying with that as is the president and every decision that I make as well.

Sen. Hassan (38:15):

Well that is obviously not true for anybody who reads the news. There are federal court orders right now, including returning somebody who was deported mistakenly-

Kristi Noem (38:28):

Well, I wouldn't rely on the news for your facts.

Sen. Hassan (38:29):

But to be clear, this is about a fundamental legal right that ensures that we live in a free society instead of a police state that would have a sham legal system like Russia or North Korea. So I'm glad that you have now committed to following court orders. I'm glad you believe in the basic freedom for Americans if ordered to do so by a court. And again, I want just to make clear that it is critically important that even if the president tries to suspend the right of people to know why they've been detained or imprisoned, if a federal court reverses that order, that you will follow that order, and I hope all members of the administration will, because it's obviously critical that some of the people, for instance, who have been deported by mistake who didn't get due process, be returned in compliance with court orders.

(39:25)
So now, let's move on to another issue. International criminal organizations target Americans with sophisticated cyber crime, including elaborate scams that robbed Americans of billions of dollars with seniors in the United States losing 5 billion to scammers in 2024 alone. As artificial intelligence improves, so does the ability of criminals to deceive and defraud Americans. With this new technology, criminals can impersonate loved ones, develop advanced malware or make more convincing phishing messages. How is DHS working to identify trends in illegal activity and ensure that new AI systems have safeguards in place to prevent their use in criminal activity?

Kristi Noem (40:09):

Yes, we are working extensively through CISA, but in all of our agencies to make sure that we're going after these criminal nefarious actors. I would say partnering with private industry is critically important so that we have the insight that we need to really understand the tactics that they use and the advancements in software. The AI ability that they have to adjust and to supersede some of our systems is incredible. And so investing in those systems is important, but also having the knowledge and bringing everybody to the table and breaking down the silos between our agencies and our intelligence agencies is important, so we all have the information that we need to [inaudible 00:40:55]-

Sen. Hassan (40:55):

And that gets me to one final point and question here, because Senator Peters began to ask about it. There's been recent reporting that indicates that the Chinese government installed remote access to Chinese-made power inverters in the U.S., raising concerns that the Chinese government could try to disable parts of our power grid. And you made a comment following up on Senator Peters' question about the importance of not only working with private industry on this issue as you would also want to work on AI, but also on working with state and local governments on cybersecurity. And can you just talk to me a little bit about how DHS is partnering with state and local governments right now?

Kristi Noem (41:36):

Well that's one of the core critical missions of CISA is to help those state and local governments harden their systems. We're extremely vulnerable by our weakest link. And so when you have a small state that doesn't have the resources it needs to invest in these security operations, then they're vulnerable to attacks and hacking attempts and they can access our systems if they have a contract or a system that interfaces with the federal system, it makes us vulnerable as well. So we are responsible for 10 of the 16 critical infrastructures under the Department of Homeland Security and making sure that China can't come in and shut down our electrical grid, our water systems, things that people rely on every day for their day-to-day lives is very important. So that's why we need these kind of partnerships, is to make sure that we're secure all the way down to our smallest actor that participates.

Sen. Hassan (42:26):

Well, I appreciate that and I appreciate working more with you on that. Thank you.

Kristi Noem (42:29):

Thank you.

Chair Rand (42:30):

Senator Lankford.

Senator Peters (42:32):

Secretary General, good to see you again. Thanks for your leadership and the work that you've already done and there's a lot more still to do, but y'all have had a pretty remarkable start in the process.

Kristi Noem (42:41):

Thank you.

Senator Peters (42:42):

And I'm very grateful for four years, every single hearing we ever had with any DHS official was dominated by border - close it, close it, close it, close it, and excuses why they couldn't, couldn't, couldn't, couldn't. It's kind of fun for me actually to be able to sit here and hear a conversation about FEMA, about Coast Guard, about all the other aspects of DHS that's out there, Secret Service, when all we had time to talk about was about border the previous time. I had my team pull together just the March numbers for the last four years of border crossings and what happened. If we go back to March of 2022 - 222,000, 2023 - 193,000, 2024 - 189,000. And then this last March, 11,000. And to be able to see the dramatic difference that's happened in a very short period of time in the enforcement that's actually happened. It's given a deep breath to the nation. It's also given an opportunity for the folks at the border to catch up. I was in San Diego a couple of weeks ago meeting with the border patrol folks in CBP and Coast Guard there in San Diego and their enforcement around the Tijuana border and to be able to see what's happening, and the morale there is dramatically different, just dramatically different, from the times that I've been there in the past. You had mentioned Coast Guard as well and I want to be able to just highlight that and then I've got a whole bunch of other questions I want to go through, but I just want to say thank you to you and your team for the work that's been done.

(44:14)
The Coast Guard folks are getting an additional pressure point there. Folks are getting on jet skis and panga boats and coming around. Coast Guard is not only saving lives, as we've seen in the past couple of weeks even about some of these panga boats that are coming in that are capsizing out there. Coast Guard is rescuing and actually removing folks at the same time in the process. They've got to have additional cameras, they need different radar systems, they need additional people that are there. I saw some of the DoD personnel that's working alongside the Coast Guard folks to be able to assist them from other agencies of DoD. They need additional folks there. So one of the questions I want to ask you was about Coast Guard and the plan, you mentioned that about additional assets, but there are radars, cameras, other things including personnel that they're going to need help on.

Kristi Noem (45:03):

Yeah, I would say the Coast Guard, its mission set is pretty expansive, and most of the time they're not only just doing search and rescue, they're out there doing interdiction on the water. They're also participating with the Navy in securing projects and missions worldwide, and their cutters move faster and help work securing our warships and our aircraft carriers, and it's incredibly important the work that they do. So we're grateful for that, but we also recognize that they've been neglected for years.

(45:34)
They've got cutters that have been delayed by Russia and China every day in the Arctic region. In the Indo-Pacific region as well, we need more assets, but down on the border specifically, you talked about the fact that these cartels are using faster boats with faster engines and jet skis to outmaneuver the Coast Guard and that's how they're penetrating into the country and proliferating their drug use and human trafficking.

(45:58)
So we're going to continue to get them the assets they need. They need airframe. They've got several that have been grounded because they can't even be maintained anymore. They need cutters, but they also need counter UAS technology. Every cutter could use that. They see drones every day out there on the waters and in the work that they do that they can't find out why they're hovering over their mission set, what they're doing if they're weaponized, and then use that to protect our country.

(46:23)
They also need satellite technology. They need new software systems, and to be able to interact with law enforcement, their communications. I talked to one coastie when I was out spending time with them on the front line, and thank you for spending time with them by the way, because that doesn't just mean the world to them. I think you learn in a different way truly what their needs are. One was carrying around two radios that probably weighed five to seven pounds each. And I said, why are you carrying two radios?

(46:50)
And he said, "Well, this one's an old one, it doesn't really work, but this one is even older than that, that doesn't have some of the channels this one has, but I have to carry two of them to cover all my bases. And yeah, I wish we could get the newer one then I could put both of these down and it weighs half as much." So this guy is walking around with his belt filled with not only all of his other equipment but also these radios, and it's that we can't afford to buy him a new radio that was already released five to 10 years ago, but we haven't upgraded for these individuals. So some of that stuff could be addressed and is very important for us to do so.

Senator Peters (47:24):

Well, thank you. Thanks for paying attention to that as well. That's going to be vital for us in the days ahead. Just a quick comment on a couple of things on this. Our team has reached out to your team. There were a lot of things the previous administration would never turn over to us. We're doing some investigations to try to get data, for instance on the parole-plus programs that were done. We could never get any data on that. We're trying to figure out where are those people and what actually happened to all of them. And so we'd like to be able to get some of that information.

(47:51)
So we've got several pending requests with your team just to be able to get those things. And the other thing is on the FEMA grants, based on the tornadoes and the storms that have come through much of the Midwest, including states like Kentucky and Oklahoma of late, some of the building resilient infrastructure and communities, some of those grants, there's a hold on and we're just trying to be able to figure out the future of that, so just some additional information would help our communities to be able to prepare as well. Mr. Chairman, thank you.

Kristi Noem (48:17):

Absolutely.

Chair Rand (48:19):

Senator Blumenthal.

Sen. Blumenthal (48:21):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for being here, Madam Secretary. I'm sure you've seen the recent reports that your agency is going to sponsor a reality TV show in which immigrants would compete for U.S. citizenship. Is DHS seriously vetting a reality show for immigrants to obtain U.S. citizenship? Your spokesperson is quoted in the Wall Street Journal. I'm going to ask that article be in the record, Mr. Chairman, if there's no objection, saying that, " It's in the very beginning stages of that vetting process. Each proposal undergoes a thorough vetting process prior to denial or approval."

Kristi Noem (49:11):

Sir, we have no knowledge of a reality show. There may have been something submitted to the department, but I did not know anything about this reality show until the reporter reached out.

Sen. Blumenthal (49:20):

No, you can confirm that you're not or considering.

Kristi Noem (49:20):

We told him we have no knowledge of it, we don't know what he's talking about and they still printed wrong information-

Sen. Blumenthal (49:26):

Your spokesperson said-

Kristi Noem (49:26):

So that article, in fact, they had to change it later because they lied so bad, and they had us on the record saying I had no knowledge of a reality show. The department didn't. There may have been something submitted somewhere along the line because there are proposals pitched to the department, but me and my executive team have no knowledge of a reality show and it's not under consideration.

Sen. Blumenthal (49:45):

Well, I hope your response is to confirm that you will not do a reality show.

Kristi Noem (49:49):

There are no plans whatsoever to do a reality show on that.

Sen. Blumenthal (49:52):

And that your spokesperson was completely misquoted as saying that it was being vetted.

Kristi Noem (49:57):

That article was completely inaccurate, completely inaccurate and false, and the fact that they printed it when they knew it was false was a dereliction of their work.

Sen. Blumenthal (50:06):

Let me go to some of the expenditures that your department is making. 200 million for an ad campaign fawning over President Trump's supposed accomplishments. 21 million between January and April for transporting around 400 immigrants to Guantánamo Bay. About half of them were flown back to the United States. 6 million to El Salvador to imprison 300 individuals in a prison known for grave human rights violations, and many more, including a thousand dollars to immigrants wishing to self-deport. I understand one of the planes left within the last 24 hours. None of these expenditures are in your present budget. Aren't you going to run out of money before the end of this fiscal year? The continuing resolution doesn't cover any of them.

Kristi Noem (50:57):

No, all the dollars being spent are being utilized as authorized and appropriately for the situation. That flight that left yesterday-

Sen. Blumenthal (51:07):

Well, none of that have been authorized though, under the continuing resolution or any other way that we normally authorize money, you're just spending recklessly, and it would seem wastefully without authorization. That's against the law.

Kristi Noem (51:19):

Well, Senator, I completely disagree with you. I'm doing the job that the Secretary of Homeland Security is supposed to be doing, the one that the last secretary refused to do, that endangered the future of our country.

Sen. Blumenthal (51:29):

You may think you're doing the job-

Kristi Noem (51:30):

What I'm doing is making sure we're enforcing our laws-

Sen. Blumenthal (51:32):

But you operate under authorization that this committee provides.

Kristi Noem (51:34):

And that people who are here that are criminal illegal aliens are returned to home.

Sen. Blumenthal (51:37):

You are acting in a way you think you're doing your job, but you also have a responsibility to follow the law.

Kristi Noem (51:43):

The American people told us to do the job. The American people overwhelmingly in the last election said, "We want a secure border. We want to make sure that no longer are the scales of justice tipped in the favor of criminals."

Sen. Blumenthal (51:54):

They did not tell you to act outside your legal authority and spend money that is not in your budget authorized by this Congress, or any other congress.

Kristi Noem (51:59):

That money is being spent according to how it is authorized appropriately.

Sen. Blumenthal (52:01):

Let me ask you about the money that is being used to supposedly repatriate Afghan allies, refugees to this country from the Taliban, the Ukrainians who have fled here from Russian aggression. Can you confirm that money is being taken from the foreign aid allocation?

Kristi Noem (52:26):

Are you talking about the temporary protective status program?

Sen. Blumenthal (52:28):

Correct. The repatriation supposedly of those individuals here under the temporary protective status program.

Kristi Noem (52:38):

Yeah, so we do have thousands of individuals that are here that have been participating in the TPS program, that has been reevaluated to see if that program is still being utilized the way that it is supposed to be as intended by Congress when it was laid out. That is always intended to be-

Sen. Blumenthal (52:56):

But there are documents that have been publicly reported that say the administration is going to use money from the Foreign Aid Program, AID, to send those people back to countries where they will be persecuted, tortured, and perhaps killed.

Kristi Noem (53:11):

We're encouraging-

Sen. Blumenthal (53:12):

As the Afghan allies would be… Let me finish my question, ma'am.

Kristi Noem (53:15):

Sure.

Sen. Blumenthal (53:17):

Where they will be potentially killed, tortured, Afghan allies who served us during our wars there, saved lives of American soldiers and diplomats, are going to be sent back to the Taliban using foreign aid money. Can you confirm that's the plan that's been reported in the Washington Post this morning?

Kristi Noem (53:42):

No, I won't confirm that because that's not true. Those individuals have an opportunity to apply for asylum and other programs where they will be protected if their lives are in danger from the government that's in their country.

Sen. Blumenthal (53:54):

There is a plan to send back anyone who can't [inaudible 00:54:00]-

Chair Rand (54:00):

Your time has expired. Senator Moody.

Sen. Moody (54:02):

Thank you, Chairman Rand. And welcome. Thank you for being here.

Kristi Noem (54:05):

Thank you.

Sen. Moody (54:06):

I think I can speak for everyone in this room and everyone in this country that you are a welcome addition as the head of DHS. In fact, you heard time and time again from everybody that's been questioning you, they sought repeatedly documents from that agency. I litigated as Florida's attorney general against DHS and Secretary Mayorkas and sought documents and as part of that, and I hate that it took litigation to uncover what I believe was the most destructive cover-up in our nation's history. But I uncovered plans by DHS when the border was overrun to just step back and let everybody come in and facilitate that.

(54:51)
Plans to push quotas into the interior daily. Plans to build illegal programs, to bring more and more people directly here from out of our country here. Plans to illegally release people into the U.S. that had been brought here for prosecution, solely for prosecution, for drug crimes from outside our country, and when they finished their decades-long prison sentence as drug traffickers, instead of historically as they would've been deported, they put them back into the community in which they were prosecuted and released them.

(55:27)
The premeditated calculation that went into destroying our borders and pushing barely vetted, oftentimes dangerous people into this nation, I believe was something that we will look back on in a nation and say that was the moment as a country we stopped taking seriously protecting the sovereignty of our nation, our security, and making sure first and foremost we were keeping an eye on the plans of our enemies and the weaknesses that we had as a country. And I cannot thank you enough for stepping up and coming back to work, coming to D.C., having been home in your state, coming back to the swamp to try and reverse the damage that was done.

(56:17)
In fact, we've been talking a lot about cover-ups and things that were [inaudible 00:56:20] in the last administration. Your predecessor sat here and testified to Congress time and time again while I was busy litigating as an AG, uncovering the real plans, "The border is secure, the border is secure, the border is secure." Time and time again he lied. And in terms of someone that needs to be held accountable for perjuring themselves, it's not just about not providing information, it's about lying to the American people as he systematically made our country weaker and put their lives and their families in danger. I think that is abhorrent.

(56:56)
I cannot believe a person was allowed to be trusted with the responsibility he was given, and I am so glad that you're willing to be here and take questions and provide documents about that. The Coast Guard is one of the things I think you said to testimony, "It's been neglected for years. Our services outmanned and equipped by Russia, China, and the cartels. We need cutters." I can tell you in Florida under the last administration, we kept seeing people, many times, criminals coming to our shores. We are a maritime border, obviously, we had to surge resources. Thankfully President Trump came in on day one and asked that we do that, so we were able to surge resources there.

(57:35)
But I just wanted to give you some sort of example. In the last year we saw 13,500 illegal aliens stopped from entering Florida, about almost 700 vessels that we kept from coming on to shore. So important that we get the Coast Guard cutters, get those ships built, ramp up assets. Thank you for that commitment. I am concerned that we might, in trying to do that so quickly, much needed, that we give foreign nations or companies outside the United States contracts. Do I have your word you will look at how we can readily increase our Coast Guard assets, like our Coast Guard cutters, but using American businesses?

Kristi Noem (58:18):

Absolutely. That's one of the things that Force Design 2028 focuses on, is making sure that we're building those kind of partnerships to meet the needs that the Coast Guard has. And I'd say our greatest asset is our people. I'm so thrilled with the fact that Coast Guard recruitment is at 108% of its recruitment goal, just because of the excitement to serve in a fleet that gets to do its mission again, and recognizes that it's been neglected for too long, but there's a focus and a recognition of the important work that they do.

Sen. Moody (58:46):

And certainly Florida has participated a lot with partnering with not only in Texas, at our southern border, we've sent assets there, but we are ramping up our own assets to complement what was not provided to us in the last administration. Thank you for your dedication to making sure that provided to us so we can secure our own maritime board. Appreciate that.

Kristi Noem (59:04):

Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you.

Chair Rand (59:06):

Perfect five minutes. Thank you. Senator Kim.

Sen. Kim (59:09):

Thank you, Chairman. Madam Secretary. A press release came out from the Department of Homeland Security a couple of days ago. It said that members of Congress in New Jersey that went to the Delaney Hall ICE Detention facility, "Could have just scheduled a tour." I guess I'd just like to hear from you if you can confirm that you understand that members of Congress by law are allowed to show up unannounced to conduct oversight visits of ICE detention facilities?

Kristi Noem (59:37):

Yes, they can conduct oversight. But Senator, what I would ask is that they understand that that doesn't mean they could show up with a mob with the intention to break in and assault law enforcement officers. That's what happened at Delaney Hall last week, is those individuals and those members of Congress were surrounded by criminals creating criminal and perpetuating criminal acts.

Sen. Kim (59:58):

Do you understand that they were already within the facility?

Kristi Noem (59:59):

When they show up and ask for a tour, we facilitated every single tour that every member of Congress has wanted. We've always done that, and we have to when we have a tour, also make sure that we've addressed security concerns and have enough staff and all of that. And we were accommodating that when those individuals showed up and they decided instead to break in.

Sen. Kim (01:00:16):

Do you know that they were already on the ICE premises, already facilitating into having the tour when there was the arrest of the mayor. They were not breaking into-

Kristi Noem (01:00:25):

They had broken through the outer fence and they were on federal property when the crimes occurred.

Sen. Kim (01:00:29):

They were invited in by ICE as ICE was preparing to give them a tour.

Kristi Noem (01:00:34):

That doesn't give them an excuse to start punching law enforcement.

Sen. Kim (01:00:37):

But you understand that they were not storming the fence.

Kristi Noem (01:00:40):

Well, I don't understand. Are you making excuses for their behavior that day?

Sen. Kim (01:00:43):

I'm just trying to clarify what exactly happened.

Kristi Noem (01:00:46):

Oversight is an important part of what Congress does and what you provide to our department and we welcome it. We give tours when members of Congress ask for it. We just ask that they not be politicized, that they actually are there to provide the oversight that is needed to ensure that we're doing due diligence in our job.

Sen. Kim (01:01:05):

If I were to show up at ICE Detention facility unannounced, I would be let in?

Kristi Noem (01:01:10):

Yes, I would ask that you would be allowing us to secure the officers that we need to give you an appropriate tour, that we'd be able to cover the other bases and posts that they would have to leave to come and facilitate that. We may have to call other people in to help cover some of that because of the extra responsibilities, but we can do that.

Sen. Kim (01:01:26):

I've done this before, I just wanted to make sure I heard that from you. I wanted to just go back to something that was raised earlier about habeas corpus. Can you confirm to us that you understand that any suspension of habeas corpus requires an act of Congress?

Kristi Noem (01:01:39):

President Lincoln executed habeas corpus in the past with retroactive action by Congress. I believe that any president that was able to do that in the past, it should be afforded to our current-day president. This president has never said he's going to do this. He's never communicated to me or his administration that they're going to consider suspending habeas corpus, but I do think the Constitution allows them the right to consider it.

Sen. Kim (01:02:05):

When we saw what happened with… How many times has habeas corpus been suspended in our Constitution?

Kristi Noem (01:02:11):

Once that I know of.

Sen. Kim (01:02:12):

Four times.

Kristi Noem (01:02:13):

I'm not certain if those were-

Sen. Kim (01:02:15):

But the instance that you were referring to was one where the courts subsequently showed that Congress is the one that has the ability. Do you know what section of the Constitution, the suspension clause of habeas corpus is?

Kristi Noem (01:02:26):

I do not. No.

Sen. Kim (01:02:27):

Do you know which article it is in?

Kristi Noem (01:02:29):

No, I do not, sir.

Sen. Kim (01:02:30):

Okay. Well, it is in Article I. Do you know which branch of government Article I outlines the tasks and the responsibilities for?

Kristi Noem (01:02:38):

Yes.

Sen. Kim (01:02:39):

Which one?

Kristi Noem (01:02:39):

Congress.

Sen. Kim (01:02:40):

Yes. Stephen Miller has said that he is actively considering that there is active consideration of habeas corpus. Have you had a conversation with Stephen Miller about suspending habeas corpus?

Kristi Noem (01:02:51):

I have not.

Sen. Kim (01:02:53):

When it comes to FEMA, this is something I'm concerned about being from New Jersey, and we've challenges with Superstorm Sandy and others in the past. I was alarmed when I saw some reports that the acting head, Richardson, said last Thursday that he's about 80 to 85% done with the hurricane season plan, given that we are just days away from hurricane season beginning. I just wanted to ask you, is he done with his hurricane preparedness plan?

Kristi Noem (01:03:21):

He is working diligently with the employees at FEMA and are prepared for hurricane season. What you referenced-

Sen. Kim (01:03:28):

Have you seen this plan, has he presented it to you?

Kristi Noem (01:03:29):

Yes, I've been actively engaged in hurricane response and preparation.

Sen. Kim (01:03:33):

Have you seen the plan?

Kristi Noem (01:03:34):

We're pre-staging people, pre-staging equipment-

Sen. Kim (01:03:36):

Is that plan something-

Kristi Noem (01:03:36):

We're making sure that we have tabletop exercise we're running through with all of our regions on what their response will be. It's been very extensive how we've laid out this plan.

Sen. Kim (01:03:47):

And will you be able to share that plan with this committee?

Kristi Noem (01:03:50):

I will check and make sure that I can.

Sen. Kim (01:03:51):

Yeah, if you can check on that.

Kristi Noem (01:03:52):

I would think that we would be able to do that. I can't see any reason that that would be-

Sen. Kim (01:03:55):

Just one last thing. A couple of weeks ago you said that you were considering restarting in-person training at the National Fire Academy. I just wanted to ask you if you're prepared to tell this committee that you are moving forward with restarting in-person trainings?

Kristi Noem (01:04:08):

Yes, the plan is to do that again.

Sen. Kim (01:04:10):

That has been approved to restart?

Kristi Noem (01:04:11):

Yes, it has been.

Sen. Kim (01:04:14):

Okay, thank you. And with that I yield back.

Chair Rand (01:04:16):

Senator Scott.

Sen. Scott (01:04:17):

Sure. Thank you Chairman. First, thanks Secretary Noem for being here today. I want to take this opportunity to thank you and President Trump for returning the Department of Homeland Security to its core mission of securing the homeland and making communities safe again. We had an increase in threats under Biden and a complete open border. You have prioritized your border. Daily border encounters have plunged 95% since President Trump took office. Is that correct?

Kristi Noem (01:04:44):

That is correct.

Sen. Scott (01:04:45):

You are finishing the border wall, in a hundred days DHS already has 85 miles of new construction either planned or under construction.

Kristi Noem (01:04:52):

That is correct.

Sen. Scott (01:04:52):

Does that sounds right?

Kristi Noem (01:04:53):

Yes.

Sen. Scott (01:04:54):

The Trump administration has reunited nearly 5,000 unaccompanied children with a safe relative or guardian after the Biden administration completely lost track of over 300,000 of these vulnerable minors. That sound right?

Kristi Noem (01:05:06):

That is correct.

Sen. Scott (01:05:08):

The United States Custom and Border Protection and the U.S. Coast Guard have seized nearly 232,000 pounds of Fentanyl and other illicit drugs, stopping them from ever reaching American communities or Florida shores. That sound right?

Kristi Noem (01:05:20):

That is correct.

Sen. Scott (01:05:21):

And you are bringing accountability to the agency. It is incredible what we can do with a willing partner like you and President Trump, who actually want a secure border and enforce our laws.

(01:05:31)
Secretary Mayorkas testified repeatedly before this committee and lied to my face saying that our border was secure. Clearly it was not. Whereas the Biden administration dismantled every process and system we had in place to secure the border and allowed millions of illegal aliens, including hundreds of known terrorists to come into our country unchecked and unvetted, wrecking havoc and bringing drugs. They were welcomed into our country by Mayorkas and the Biden administration.

(01:05:58)
Secretary Noem, you've been working

Sen. Scott (01:06:00):

… for months to fix the mess your predecessor left behind. Is the border secure?

Kristi Noem (01:06:05):

Yes it is.

Sen. Scott (01:06:06):

Besides additional resources, which you clearly need, what legislative fixes do you need from Congress to maintain a secure border?

Kristi Noem (01:06:15):

Well, Senator, thank you for the question. This border is the most secure border that we've ever had in the history of the United States of America.

(01:06:22)
But what we need to do is address the areas that are still vulnerable and those areas require technology, wall infrastructure, more individuals at times, we need surveillance equipment, camera equipment to be fixed, only one out of three CBP cameras are really functional right now.

(01:06:40)
So the reconciliation package is incredibly important for us to have the resources we need at the border, but also, to make sure that CBP can continue to do their work that they do of our ports of entry, assessing tariffs and collecting duties, all of that.

(01:06:53)
But beyond that, reconciliation has needed assets for other areas of our national security portfolio. The fact of the matter is the Department of Homeland Security is one of the largest agencies with one of the smallest budgets.

(01:07:06)
And the task that we have taken on has gotten more and more complicated all the time. As things move online, cybersecurity, bad actors get more sophisticated. And now we've let these dangerous terrorists and cartel members into our country, in the interior of our country, that threaten the American public. They need to be removed and taken out. And we're fighting a court system at times as well.

(01:07:29)
So that reconciliation package make sure that we're able to do due diligence in the work that we do and really assure the American people that we're on watch for them.

(01:07:37)
Beyond that, Remain in Mexico policy to be codified would be incredibly important to make sure we have stability in that policy going forward. Some clarity and credible fear would be wonderful to have if this body would choose to tackle that. That would help us not have to deal consistently with court challenges and tie us up fighting that battle when we really should be addressing security concerns.

Sen. Scott (01:08:03):

Miami is one of the 11 U.S. cities hosting matches for the upcoming World Cup. Can you discuss how DHS is preparing for that and how DHS is working with the state and the locals to make sure they have everything they need for a successful and secure event?

Kristi Noem (01:08:15):

Yes, we are working diligently with FIFA and other entities to ensure that cities and states have the assets that they need. This will be an unprecedented world event. It'll take place in three different countries and many cities across our country, but also Mexico and Canada.

(01:08:34)
And it'll take place over a month. It's the equivalent to 10 different Super Bowls. And we will, at times, have 11 different matches going on in the country on the same day, and making sure we're supporting security operations in all of these cities is imperative.

(01:08:47)
So having the conversations now, there's meetings happening almost every single day between our department, the White House, the federal government and FIFA and these cities to ensure that we have the protocols in place, the guidelines in place, universal approach to how they're going to be applied, and then what we can do to secure, not just the ground and territory and access to these events, but also the air space above it.

(01:09:17)
We need counter-drone technology. We need to have jurisdiction to be able to make sure that we're dealing with those threats as they present themselves, but also, make sure that we have the men and women that are trained and prepared to secure them going forward. It will be safe and it will be secure. It's a lot of work because we've never done anything like this before though.

Sen. Scott (01:09:36):

Well, thank you for all your hard work and your team.

Kristi Noem (01:09:38):

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Chairman (01:09:40):

Senator Slotkin.

Senator Slotkin (01:09:42):

Thank you, Chairman. Thank you for being here. Michigan's a border state, so we need each other.

Kristi Noem (01:09:47):

Mm-hmm.

Senator Slotkin (01:09:49):

We have a very big bridge that's being inaugurated, ribbon cut in September. We need that to be fully staffed. We have a lot going on in Michigan as a northern border state, so we need each other.

(01:10:02)
But what I'm concerned about is that you've taken the mandate to close off the border beyond going after, as you say, the, quote, "most dangerous illegal immigrants." I'm a CIA officer. I worked my entire life to protect the homeland. If someone's here illegally, they need to not be here. They've committed a crime by being here, they need to go back to wherever they're from.

(01:10:28)
But my concern is that, either through sloppiness or intent, you have gone far beyond going after the, quote, "most dangerous illegal immigrants," and gone into legal immigrants who were given the ability to be here, and even American citizens.

(01:10:45)
And when I think about that, there are lots of people in this country, including me, who have families who fled this kind of environment where they have no rights, where they have no due process, where they don't have habeas corpus.

(01:11:03)
So while I'll be the first to say, coming from a state that was won by Trump, that there is a mandate to do something about the border, I think it is absolute dangerous overreach to go beyond that and start picking up American citizens and people who have the legal right to be here, lawful immigrants who have done everything right.

(01:11:24)
So first and foremost, do you acknowledge that your department has made some mistakes, any mistakes in going after, either American citizens or legal immigrants here in the time that you've been in office?

Kristi Noem (01:11:37):

We have not deported any U.S. citizens or-

Senator Slotkin (01:11:41):

Detained?

Kristi Noem (01:11:42):

People get interviewed. If they get interviewed and they go through that process and we find that they're U.S. citizens or legal immigrants, they stay in United States.

Senator Slotkin (01:11:50):

Have you deported any-

Kristi Noem (01:11:51):

We have to go through the vetting process?

Senator Slotkin (01:11:52):

Have any American citizens, including children, been deported during your time in office?

Kristi Noem (01:11:58):

We have children that mothers have chosen to keep with them, so those-

Senator Slotkin (01:12:01):

By my count, you have 10 American citizens, including children with cancer, who have been deported out of the country. I understand you're saying it's their choice-

Kristi Noem (01:12:09):

But the mother's chose to keep their children.

Senator Slotkin (01:12:09):

… it's hard to imagine a small child having a choice. But have you gone after legal immigrants? Again, your standard in your opening statement was the, "most dangerous illegal immigrants." Does that include PhD students and master's students at colleges across the country, unarmed? Are they the most dangerous illegal when they have status and no weapons?

Kristi Noem (01:12:30):

I don't decide who gets status through a student program, the Department of State-

Senator Slotkin (01:12:34):

Yes-

Kristi Noem (01:12:34):

… decides that and we enforce it.

Senator Slotkin (01:12:36):

Oh, come on.

Kristi Noem (01:12:36):

That's what our Department of Homeland Security does.

Senator Slotkin (01:12:38):

I just would offer that-

Kristi Noem (01:12:39):

Those student programs that are-

Senator Slotkin (01:12:41):

Again, I have no qualms with going after folks who are here illegally. That is not my concern. That was part of my job is to prevent people from coming here illegally, in a former life.

(01:12:51)
My concern is you're sending a chill down the spine of America by going after people who either have legal status or American citizens. And when my colleagues ask you about habeas corpus and you say, literally, we can review the tape, that you believe it's a right the president has.

Kristi Noem (01:13:09):

Mm-hmm.

Senator Slotkin (01:13:10):

You sat here in front of all of us and swore an oath to the constitution. And that is not at all what habeas corpus is, it is a right that we all get, that American citizens get, that people who are in the United States legally have.

(01:13:24)
So my concern is it's complete overreach. I don't think American citizens, even those who voted for Trump, believe that you should be able to just grab someone off the street sloppy who has the legal right to be here and certainly an American citizen. And I just am concerned that while you say you're going after the most dangerous folks, what you're actually doing is going after folks for political reasons, right?

Kristi Noem (01:13:49):

Absolutely not.

Senator Slotkin (01:13:50):

A PhD student that's unarmed-

Kristi Noem (01:13:51):

We are absolutely not doing that.

Senator Slotkin (01:13:52):

… is not at the top of the list.

Kristi Noem (01:13:55):

And we're not deporting people who have legal status here.

Senator Slotkin (01:13:55):

Well, 10 of them have been deported. 10 American citizens have been deported.

Kristi Noem (01:13:58):

If children have have gone with their parents, it's because their parents wanted them with them.

Senator Slotkin (01:14:00):

So let me ask you another question about cyber security. You've cut $500 million from the budget. What specific programs are you cutting? [inaudible 01:14:11]. Because there are programs that really aid states and locals that we depend on for cyber security and we know that right now, while we may have good security in the federal government, if you are a local state official, you're depending on the federal government. So have you cut the ISAC program, the program to states and locals on cyber security?

Kristi Noem (01:14:38):

The President's recommended budget has a reduction in $491 million.

Senator Slotkin (01:14:42):

Does it cut that program? I've heard the talking points. Does it cut the program?

Kristi Noem (01:14:44):

And what it's doing is [inaudible 01:14:46] back on mission and it's ensuring that cyber security is going to be strengthened.

Senator Slotkin (01:14:50):

You cannot say it's the most cyber secure administration if you're cutting the program to my state and to your state.

Kristi Noem (01:14:56):

It will be when we-

Senator Slotkin (01:14:56):

If you look on record, that's what you've cut. I yield back.

Chairman (01:14:59):

Time has expired. Senator Hawley.

Senator Hawley (01:15:02):

Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. Secretary Noem, good to see you. Welcome. Congratulations on securing the border in a record amount of time. The last administration came and sat where you're sitting for four years and told us, "It couldn't be done. It couldn't be done." The border was just an intractable problem, it would take years to do it. You did it in the space of really 30 days. And now, the United States' southern border is secure. So thank you for your tremendous work on that.

(01:15:26)
I want to begin, however, with the situation in St. Louis, which I'm sure you're aware of. On Friday afternoon and evening, major storms ripped through the St. Louis area as well as southeast Missouri. I'm going to put a picture up over my shoulder here, an F-3 tornado cut right through North St. Louis.

(01:15:43)
What you're seeing here is pretty typical, I'm sad to say, of the damage. We lost five people in St. Louis, we lost another two in Scott County, which is down in southeast Missouri, there to the south, a couple of hours south of the city.

(01:15:56)
I spent much of the day yesterday just walking these neighborhoods and talking to residents and this that you're seeing over my shoulder is what these neighborhoods all look like. These are areas that families have lived here. In some cases, I talked to one individual, one gentleman, and he said that his family had been there since his great-grandmother came to that neighborhood in 1919. So it's that kind of a community. And they are totally devastated.

(01:16:19)
Yesterday afternoon, my governor requested an emergency disaster declaration to expedite FEMA funds to help the state just clean up, I mean, just clean up the kind of rubble now that you're seeing behind me. You've been a governor, until very recently, you know how important this is. Can we get your help to expedite the consideration of that request? Again, it was just made yesterday. We need it as quickly as possible. Will you help us expedite that?

Kristi Noem (01:16:43):

Yeah, absolutely. I've spoken with your governor and did that day that this devastation happened. And so, we've promised and pledged to get that expedited as soon as possible for him so he can have the resources that he needs to respond to his people.

(01:16:56)
And that's one of the failures that FEMA's had in the past is that people that incur this kind of damage and lose everything, then they sit there for months, sometimes years and never get the promised critical response that they think or that they believe they should be getting from the federal government. And that's why President Trump believes that this agency needs to be dramatically reformed.

Senator Hawley (01:17:16):

I'm glad to hear you say that. And you're exactly right. We've had the situation in Missouri in years past where we've had individuals who have qualified for FEMA aid including individual assistance, in some cases, they've been awarded the assistance, and then FEMA has come in and clawed it back or never paid it out or never sent teams to help. So to have your commitment to expedite this is tremendous, that will be welcome news to the residents of St. Louis.

(01:17:38)
We also have, the state has, pending three requests for major disaster declarations from earlier storms. We've lost over a dozen people. Actually, if you count the folks we lost just on Friday, we've lost almost 20 people now in major storms just in the last two months in Missouri. It's been a terrible spring for us.

(01:17:55)
Here again, can I ask for your help? Will you commit to helping for those three major disaster declaration requests that are pending? Will you help expedite those, Secretary Noem, and get those in front of the president, and get those approved? We are desperate for the assistance of Missouri.

Kristi Noem (01:18:09):

Yeah, absolutely.

Senator Hawley (01:18:10):

Thank you.

Kristi Noem (01:18:10):

Will make sure the application gets to the White House as soon as possible.

Senator Hawley (01:18:13):

Fantastic. Thank you. And can I also have your commitment that if and when the president approves a major disaster declaration for this storm that just happened on Friday in St. Louis, will you expedite as much as possible FEMA individual assistance for those who qualify for it in the St. Louis area?

Kristi Noem (01:18:29):

Yes.

Senator Hawley (01:18:30):

And I want to tell you just how important that is because as I toured these streets and walked and talked to the residents, what I heard over and over is many of these folks don't have insurance.

Kristi Noem (01:18:39):

Yeah.

Senator Hawley (01:18:39):

Many of these folks, they either got their homes from a family member or they bought them from a family member, so they don't have a mortgage on the property and therefore, they don't have homeowners insurance.

(01:18:51)
So as you know, having been a governor in many instances, FEMA assistance is going to be the only assistance that they're going to get.

(01:18:58)
And I just had a hearing in this committee, in our subcommittee, Senator Kim and I, last week, where we talked to major insurance companies who routinely scam people by refusing to pay out the full policy awards that they are due. So I know we're going to be fighting that in Missouri.

(01:19:13)
We've got to have the federal government where there's individual assistance that people qualify for. We've got to have people be able to get that. Otherwise, we're never going to be able to rebuild these neighborhoods. So you just committed, I think, to expediting that. I appreciate that. Thank you for your help-

Kristi Noem (01:19:27):

Thank you.

Senator Hawley (01:19:28):

… in all of this. And then, the last thing we'll say is, can you commit also to making sure that the FEMA communication with the state and with individuals is open, is clear, is transparent?

(01:19:39)
You referenced the fact that FEMA is notorious, notorious for giving bad information, for slow walking residents, for confusing intake forms that nobody knows how to fill out, for not getting back to people.

Kristi Noem (01:19:52):

Mm-hmm.

Senator Hawley (01:19:53):

Can you commit to, as we deal with this disaster in St. Louis and others around the state, that under your leadership, FEMA is going to act with expedition, they are going to be clear in their communications and they're going to follow up and give people the awards that they need if they qualify for it?

Kristi Noem (01:20:08):

Yeah, that's been the biggest challenge of FEMA in the past is just the delayed response. People are counting on the assistance and it never comes through. And the paperwork is too complicated for a individual, many times, to complete on their own, they need help and assistance.

(01:20:21)
So that's part of the reforms that the FEMA Review Council will be undertaking. And we've got people that are our frontline responders across the country that are serving on that council. And we'll take your insight as well, but we'll continue to expedite what we can with the framework we have in front of, but do better diligence than the last administration on how we take care of people.

Senator Hawley (01:20:39):

Fantastic. Everything you said today is going to be very, very welcome news in St. Louis and the rest of Missouri this morning. Thank you for being here. Thank you-

Kristi Noem (01:20:45):

Thank you.

Senator Hawley (01:20:46):

… for your service. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman (01:20:47):

Senator Fetterman.

Senator Fetterman (01:20:55):

Thank you. Secretary?

Chairman (01:20:57):

Mm-hmm.

Senator Fetterman (01:20:57):

Hi. Hello.

Chairman (01:20:59):

Hi, sir.

Senator Fetterman (01:21:00):

As you may know, I'm from Pennsylvania.

Chairman (01:21:02):

Mm-hmm.

Senator Fetterman (01:21:04):

I occupy perhaps a unique position, I've been very, very, very pro-immigration, but I, early, identified the serious problem about the border, the security. And I've said this publicly, I'll say it now, that my party failed to secure our border and we deserve to pay a political price for that. And I've been trying to find a way forward to move forward on those things.

(01:21:32)
I voted for you, not because you and I agree on a lot of political things and we're in different parties, but you're the secretary and I'm a member of this committee, so I believe we have to find a way to work forward together. And I am not here for fireworks or to try to create something to be clipped on TV. I'm honestly coming asking for your help about a situation here.

(01:21:55)
So now, I have a constituent, his name's Ramin and he's an Afghani who served alongside our service members there in the war. He is a resident of Philadelphia. Now, he's a surgeon and he saved American lives. And now he is waiting to be approved a green card. He helped evacuate our forces through an airlift.

(01:22:22)
And his two brothers, and of course, we can't name them due to their concerns, but they're trapped in Pakistan and the risk for removal for Afghanistan, and they face torture and death because of their commitment for a free and democratic Afghanistan. They've saved American lives and they have defended our forces in there, and now here. That's part of my concern right now and looking for help, honestly.

(01:22:49)
And that's one of the reasons why I voted for you because we want to try and find a way because not all immigration is just about securing our border, we know, but it's about helping people that deserve to come to our nation after serving in such an amazing, great risk there is now.

(01:23:03)
So there was the president's executive order suspending refugee resettlement, but again, they kind of got caught up in the middle of that. And honestly, I'm not here looking for the theater, I'm just here to come because I believe they deserve to be here for the sacrifices and what they've put at risk.

(01:23:21)
And I'm asking if we're able to get some kind of working with my office, please, to find a way to bring these Afghani heroes that saved American lives during that war because things may got caught up in these executive orders. So that's really all I'm asking today.

Kristi Noem (01:23:40):

Yeah, Senator, we will certainly work with your office on those specific cases. We have 8,000 individuals that have been granted asylum since President Trump has been in office looking at cases much like you have.

(01:23:51)
And these individuals that are here that may have been on a different program like TPS that is no longer going to be in place in a couple of months, we have the opportunity to work with them to get them qualified.

(01:24:03)
Many of the concerns with some of these countries when you're talking about interacting with them and giving them status and green cards here in the United States is the ability to vet them. And it sounds like the individuals that you know have been thoroughly vetted and in partnership with the United States, and so that is something that we'll look at and we'll certainly work with you on recognizing their service to our country.

Senator Fetterman (01:24:25):

Yeah, I would be profoundly grateful if my office can work with your team and perhaps even with state as well too. So that's all this is about too. It's a political truth that we have to find a way to work together because there are truth and it is not owned by one side or the other. So I look forward to finding a solution here. Okay, thank you.

Kristi Noem (01:24:48):

Thank you.

Senator Fetterman (01:24:48):

Yield.

Kristi Noem (01:24:48):

Thank you, Senator.

Chairman (01:24:51):

Senator Moreno.

Senator Moreno (01:24:53):

Thank you for being here. Thank you for your work. I just want to reiterate for the record, 93% drop in border encounters. Is that accurate?

Kristi Noem (01:25:03):

That is correct.

Senator Moreno (01:25:04):

And are you aware that during the Biden/Harris administration, we had 4,000 aliens that died along the journey to come to America?

Kristi Noem (01:25:15):

I wasn't aware of that specific number, but it doesn't surprise me.

Senator Moreno (01:25:19):

Because basically, we had-

Kristi Noem (01:25:20):

It's a dangerous trip.

Senator Moreno (01:25:21):

It's a dangerous trip. The Darien Gap, which is right near where I was born in Columbia, went from being a, supposedly, uncrossable border to hundreds of thousands of people making that journey. Who benefited from our open borders policy under Biden?

Kristi Noem (01:25:38):

I would say Joe Biden certainly did.

Senator Moreno (01:25:40):

And the drug cartels-

Kristi Noem (01:25:41):

Yes.

Senator Moreno (01:25:41):

… that made tens of billions-

Kristi Noem (01:25:43):

And criminals.

Senator Moreno (01:25:43):

… of dollars. And who was the victim? Certainly American citizens.

Kristi Noem (01:25:49):

American citizens, but those who chose to come to our country at that time believing that they could come without any consequences.

Senator Moreno (01:25:56):

And obviously, the drug cartels are drug cartels that became human traffickers at scale and use that human trafficking as a disguise to allow illegal fentanyl to come into our country. And what's been the ramifications of that? What have you seen first hand when you go to the border? What do the agents tell you about the fentanyl that's coming across the border?

Kristi Noem (01:26:18):

Well, it's devastating. Luckily, we have the ability now to enforce our laws with this President. And fentanyl traffic has been down 54% since he's been in office because of that.

(01:26:29)
But unfortunately, what's happening is these cartels, foreign terrorist organizations, they are now moving to our maritime borders. They're moving and getting much more sophisticated. And so, we need to adapt and have the resources to be able to interdict them before they come in and kill off our next generation of Americans.

Senator Moreno (01:26:45):

So it's not hyperbole to say that tens of thousands of Americans have not been killed with Fentanyl because of that problem.

Kristi Noem (01:26:52):

Correct. Absolutely.

Senator Moreno (01:26:54):

And it's just important to just reflect, not for political reasons, but just for moral reasons to say that what happened over the last four years is despicable, we should never have allowed that to happen.

(01:27:06)
There was no outcry about the situation and yet it was allowed to happen. Now, it's a lot easier to enter America than it is to be deported from America. Can you talk about that for a minute?

Kristi Noem (01:27:18):

Well, that is true. When you have a president in the White House that is openly saying our laws won't be enforced and facilitating this invasion that happened over our southern border, we had millions of people come. And not just people looking for new opportunities and the American dream, you had people coming that were criminals, murderers, rapists, traffickers, terrorists. And now, to remove them is much more complicated, difficult, and expensive.

(01:27:45)
For us to deport someone that we have to go out and find that individual, arrest and detain them and remove them from the country, it costs upwards to $17,000 if there isn't more delays than the normal process.

(01:27:59)
That's why we're encouraging people to self-deport. If you are here illegally, we recognize that you may have been here for a period of time, but if you want to leave and have the chance to come back someday, leave on your own. We will facilitate that. We'll buy you a plane ticket. When you land, we will give you $1,000 that you can get started with and provide for your family.

(01:28:18)
That cost of self-deportation is $4,500, so much, much cheaper for the American taxpayer in how we make sure that we really are following our laws and that the people here in this country, the American citizens, are treated with the respect that they're due, by coming here through the legal process and being a part of our future.

Senator Moreno (01:28:41):

Yeah. And I think it's just important. And I hope my colleagues, especially on the other side of the aisle, I look at Senator Gallego whose family came here from another country, his mom from Colombia, dad from Mexico, that we honor and respect those of us like myself, my five brothers, my sister, my mom and dad, that followed the legal process, which by the way is hard. It's a privilege to come to America. It's not easy. You have to go through a process.

(01:29:07)
But over the last four years, what we did is we made it so that if you hired a drug cartel, brought you to the border and then raised your hand when he got to the border patrol and said, "Asylum," or, "Asilo, asilo," that that got you a free ticket into the country, free housing, free healthcare, free education to the detriment of Americans. And I think that should be something we unite about.

(01:29:29)
And Senator Fetterman talked about asylum seekers, those are not asylum seekers, they're people who want a better life, they're economic migrants, we empathize for them, but we have to have a process that we honor the people who are following the rules.

(01:29:45)
So for example, the Afghani's that he's talking about, well, they have to wait in line behind millions of fake asylum claims. And I think we have to, once and for all, acknowledge that that's not the case.

(01:29:54)
I was proud to introduce something called the Rules Act. Unfortunately, the Democrats blocked that very common sense bill, which would've said, "Hey, have you come across our border illegally and claim asylum, you can't claim asylum at an undesignated port of entry, you're immediately returned." That's something that's common sense.

(01:30:13)
I want to ask you a few other just technical questions. I want to-

Chairman (01:30:16):

Time. Time.

Senator Moreno (01:30:16):

Just-

Chairman (01:30:17):

We're going to do another round in just a few minutes.

Senator Moreno (01:30:19):

Okay. Do you mind if I just ask one quick question?

Chairman (01:30:21):

One quick question.

Senator Moreno (01:30:22):

Okay. I want to just encourage you to continue to do what you're doing, which is to enforce the law, which is that the agencies within DHS purchase products in the United States of America, so I applaud you for doing that.

Kristi Noem (01:30:35):

Yeah. Yeah. Yes, thank you for that.

Chairman (01:30:38):

Senator Gallego.

Senator Gallego (01:30:43):

Thank you Mr. Chair. Thank you Secretary Noem for attendance today. Let me start by also agreeing with Senator Moreno on some things. And I think it is positive, the Trump administration has provided stronger border security to keep illegal border crossings as close to zero as possible. We've definitely have seen that in Arizona.

(01:30:59)
My concern is that it's not sustainable, it's expensive. That's why I recently released a common sense boarder security that would make it sustainable and would actually deliver longterm solutions.

(01:31:08)
But let me get to my first question. Your department is overspending right now, it's on track to run out of money, again, by mid-July to support a mass deportation campaign that can't be afforded.

(01:31:18)
At the same time though, you recently requested a $50 million allotment for a private Gulfstream jet. That's $15 million of taxpayer money to subsidize some of your national tours that you've been going on.

(01:31:31)
Meanwhile, Republicans are about to kick another 13 million people off Medicaid to fund taxes for the rich on the backs of some working class Americans.

(01:31:38)
So how can you justify spending millions, 50 million, on a jet, while your department is definitely overspending and Republicans in Congress are about to strip off healthcare from millions of Americans?

Kristi Noem (01:31:50):

Well, Senator, thank you for the question. We are spending our dollars appropriately and will be on budget. Your reference to the airframe, that was the requested dollars were put in for, that's for the Coast Guard. It's to replace an existing jet that is over 20 years old and is beyond its usable hours.

(01:32:08)
And the Coast Guard, for many, many years has been neglected and has many airframe that have been grounded because they can't even be maintained anymore. The suppliers that give us parts and repairs and maintenance for them have said that they'll no longer support that kind of a mission. We have cutters that haven been completed, that haven been deployed out across the world.

(01:32:26)
And then we also, beyond that, are asking for a request to build out the number of Coast Guard members that we need in place. We're asking for 15,000 more to complete-

Senator Gallego (01:32:36):

I don't think [inaudible 01:32:37]-

Kristi Noem (01:32:37):

… the missions that are going forward.

Senator Gallego (01:32:38):

Are you going to have access to that $50 million Gulfstream jet that the Coast Guard is going to supply?

Kristi Noem (01:32:42):

The Coast Guard will use that jet exactly how it uses the jets that it has today, exactly in the same manner that it uses the ones that it has in place today.

Senator Gallego (01:32:50):

Would you consistently be using it to travel?

Kristi Noem (01:32:52):

I don't know if I would use that one or if I would use the other one. I have no idea. But I do spend time out there with our components making sure that they know that they have a secretary that's engaged with them-

Senator Gallego (01:33:03):

We've the Instagram photos.

Kristi Noem (01:33:03):

… that's visiting with them, seeing what their needs are. No sir, they're not photos, they've meant the world to the individuals at the Department of Homeland Security.

Senator Gallego (01:33:10):

I've seen some of them.

Kristi Noem (01:33:11):

They have meant the world to our ICE agents-

Senator Gallego (01:33:13):

Actually, some really bad weapons handling.

Kristi Noem (01:33:13):

… our border agents. When they asked me to be out there with them so they know what their lives are like.

Senator Gallego (01:33:17):

Speaking also of that, talking to some law enforcement, besides those under DHS, we've also seen some law enforcement that have been pulled away from investigations such as child porn, sex trafficking. We've had some agents pulled in that were doing investigations on bank fraud that are now provisional ICE agents. And I think creating and making them do this type of work is also making us more and more dangerous since they're not actually doing this longterm investigation.

(01:33:44)
On the other hand, I have talked to some border chiefs and sheriff's repeatedly, and they've been highlighting the danger associated with cartels targeting teenagers in border communities through social media apps and recruiting them to participate in smuggling operations.

(01:33:58)
And one of the bills I introduced with several colleagues here, actually, is the Combating Cartels on Social Media Act, which will help DHS counter this threat.

(01:34:07)
Arizona communities cannot wait for the legislative process to play out on this. What is DHS doing to solve this problem and help keep American children and communities safe from cartel criminal activity and recruitment too?

Kristi Noem (01:34:21):

Well, that is the problem that we have with the longer that they're here, the more established they become and the more they recruit individuals who may live in this country, U.S. citizens or even our kids to be a part of their operations.

Senator Gallego (01:34:31):

Some of them are actually on the other side too, so it's both sides.

Kristi Noem (01:34:34):

What do you mean on their side?

Senator Gallego (01:34:35):

Some of the cartels are using social media on, let's say, Mexico, wherever.

Kristi Noem (01:34:39):

Yes, definitely they are.

Senator Gallego (01:34:40):

So it's back and forth.

Kristi Noem (01:34:40):

Yes, they definitely are, but they also are infiltrating our country still by recruiting our children to be a part of their networks.

Senator Gallego (01:34:46):

Yes, that's the problem. Yeah.

Kristi Noem (01:34:47):

So we're working with, not just the experts that we have within CBP and ICE, but also using our other components to address some of the sophistication that we've seen in these apps as far as CISA and partnerships that they may have with private industry that can give us insight in what we can do to deploy our own counterterrorist activities and applications to those systems, what we can do to make sure that we're stopping their ability to communicate with our children and bringing awareness. The Department of Homeland Security has programs in different areas such as the Know2Protect and the other programs you may be familiar with.

Senator Gallego (01:35:22):

And have you been able to work directly with the social media companies though, not just through [inaudible 01:35:26]-

Kristi Noem (01:35:25):

We have had conversations with the social media companies. I believe-

Senator Gallego (01:35:28):

Because by the time we get around to doing it, we're losing more and more people, so like having a very direct conversation in a concentrated effort to actually have outcomes is going to be quicker because they have the option to do it. We don't have to come in and do it, they choose not to because they'd rather make more money than anything else.

Kristi Noem (01:35:46):

Well, that may be, but I found them very willing to come to the table. I've had myself spent dozens of hours with them and my team has spent hundreds of hours visiting with them on what we can do to be much more proactive.

(01:35:57)
So they've got some solutions that we can pursue, we'll be coming to you with some of those ideas, but I think it's important that we use their knowledge of this way of communication and recruitment to help protect our children.

Senator Gallego (01:36:09):

[inaudible 01:36:11].

Chairman (01:36:12):

Senator Ernst.

Senator Ernst (01:36:13):

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Secretary Noem, thank you very much for being here today. I truly appreciate it. During your confirmation process, I had shared a story with you and it was a heartbreaking story about one of my constituents, Sarah Root.

Chairman (01:36:31):

Mm-hmm.

Senator Ernst (01:36:32):

Sarah was killed by an illegal immigrant that was drunk driving with three times the blood alcohol content of the legal limit, three times over the limit. Using a loophole in the federal law, that killer, he fled the country and he vanished for years.

(01:36:52)
But thanks to your leadership, your leadership and the work of many of the brave men and women of DHS and the State Department, Sarah's killer was arrested in Honduras in a matter of days, days after our conversation, and was extradited back to the United States. He is in Omaha, Nebraska now, and he is going through the court system there.

(01:37:23)
And believe you and me, Sarah's mother, Michelle Root, her father, Scott Root, and her brother, Scotty Root thank you, day in and day out, and President Trump, for having the wherewithal to follow through to bring her killer to justice. So thank you. Thank you for that.

Kristi Noem (01:37:44):

Well, thank you for telling Sarah's story, I know you had to for many, many years. That was the first time Honduras actually extradited someone for homicide. And so, I think it's very important the precedent we set, the relationship that we built there, so that we are able to get some justice for Sarah's family.

(01:38:01)
And thank you for being passionate about her. And that just proves that telling your story and telling her story doesn't fall on deaf ears with this administration.

Senator Ernst (01:38:11):

It certainly doesn't. And I want to take this time and just to point out the difference in the administrations. So after this killer fled from prosecution in the United States, he was on ICE's most wanted list, that was in the Trump administration.

(01:38:32)
When President Biden came into office, he actually took this killer, Eswin Mejia, off of the most wanted list. They weren't actively trying to find him.

Kristi Noem (01:38:43):

Mm-hmm. Right.

Senator Ernst (01:38:44):

They didn't care about Sarah's plight nor that of her parents.

Kristi Noem (01:38:50):

Mm-hmm. That's right.

Senator Ernst (01:38:50):

President Trump came back into office, and again, within that first month of President Trump being in office and you being sworn in,

Senator Ernst (01:39:00):

We had located him in Honduras and was able to negotiate for the extradition of this killer back to the United States. This family deserves justice and I'm glad that they are getting it. So thank you, Secretary Noem. Just a few moments ago you said that you have provided the committee, quote, "with 50,000 pages from COVID and the origins." I haven't seen any of those pages yet. Will you commit to ensuring that I am able to see those 50,000 pages?

Kristi Noem (01:39:38):

Yeah, certainly. They were given to the chairman at his request and I'll certainly forward that to you as well.

Chairman Paul (01:39:45):

Yeah. And those documents are up and your staff does have access to them.

Senator Ernst (01:39:47):

Okay, great. Thank you. I appreciate that. I know that the Biden administration had blocked us from seeing that information. So I think it's really important that those of us on the committee that have pursued the origins of COVID have the opportunity to review those documents. So thank you. Just in the remaining time that I have, I want to talk a little bit about the DOGE work that we have going on, and you've been a very good partner with DOGE. And I want to commend your recent efficiency. You've enhanced election integrity and you've saved taxpayer dollars. And in October of 2024, my home state of Iowa uncovered over 2,000 cases of non-citizens… Iowa. 2,000 cases of non-citizens registering to vote or voting after self-identifying as non-citizens at the DMV.

(01:40:47)
This happens every day, folks. The previous administration, again, Joe Biden's administration, obstructed Iowa's request for immigrant verification records in the days before our federal election. This is unacceptable and I'm grateful that you tackled this issue immediately. Some people may say 2,000 people, no big deal. But I will remind you that in one of our congressional districts, in the case of Mariannette Miller-Meeks, who's now a congresswoman, she won her race by six. Six votes. It matters. Thank you, Secretary Noem, for doing the right thing and I yield.

Chairman Paul (01:41:35):

Thank you. We're going to try to do a quick round of five minutes one more time. I'm going to gavel at five minutes so the Secretary knows, everybody knows that's the end. We're going to try to move on to the next person to get you out of here. We talked a little bit about the wall earlier. The administration has asked for $46.5 billion for the wall. The border on the Mexican border is about 1,950 miles. We've fenced or walled about 700 of it. That leaves about 1,200 miles. There's 200 or 300 miles of it that, probably never going to have a fence on.

(01:42:06)
It's mountainous or just impossible to fence or wall. So I would say realistically you got under a 1,000. But let's just say there's a 1,000. You really want to wall on a 1,000. CBP says it's 6.5 million per mile. Your response today was 12 millions per mile. That means $12 billion for a 1,000 miles. We're off here by a factor of three or four with 46 billion. Where's the rest of the 46 billion? The administration says they want 46 billion for a wall. You could pave all of it and still have 34 billion left over. What's the 34 billion going for?

Kristi Noem (01:42:44):

Yeah, Senator, thank you for the question. We do have 702 miles of wall today. 598 of that are steel. The rest of that is temporary that's in place. Since President's been in office over 70 miles has been erected. We have 11 contracts that have gone out and allocated. We also have five more that are pending. Based on the dollars that have been requested, it's not just the infrastructure that would be built, that would be the actual wall construction. It would be also surveillance equipment, it'd be cameras, it would be-

Chairman Paul (01:43:15):

The number is way off. You could do a 1,000 miles for 12 billion. You're asking for 46 billion. So I'm one who's not impressed and would have to see more detail as to where the rest of the money [inaudible 01:43:25]. We can't just throw $30 billion out there and say things cost a lot.

Kristi Noem (01:43:29):

I agree. We'll get you the specifics on that.

Chairman Paul (01:43:32):

With regard to the drones and all the preparatory work that DHS does and the government does for the NFL and for FIFA, does NFL pay DHS for the work you do?

Kristi Noem (01:43:42):

Boy, not to my knowledge. I will…

Chairman Paul (01:43:44):

Well, I mean, here's my point. The NFL makes billions of dollars. We're 2 trillion in the whole. I don't care if government shares their technology and government helps out the World Cup, but they ought to pay.

Kristi Noem (01:43:56):

Yeah, I'll-

Chairman Paul (01:43:57):

If we're paying hundreds of dollars for tickets. I mean, thousands of dollars for the NFL, for Super Bowl and things. They're also paying for FIFA. And so these people ought to pay. And so I'm one holding up these authorizations and I'll let them go forward, but I want people to pay. I mean, it's ridiculous that the average taxpayer who could never afford to go to an NFL Super Bowl has got to pay for their security. Should the government help if we have technology they don't? Perhaps. But they ought to pay. So NFL, FIFA, I think they all ought to pay. And we'll be insisting on trying to put language in that. If you're a for-profit entity and the government's helping you, you ought to pay for it. With regard to TSA, Quiet Skies and Tulsi Gabbard situation, I suspect there are going to be other people that were caught up in this thing as well.

(01:44:44)
By the idea that we took a former congresswoman and we're surveilling her and riding on jets with her. There was another story of an air marshal whose wife, I mean, might've been at January 6th or something, and now we have air marshals riding, following another air marshal or his wife. So I want to hear the whole story of what happened. I want to hear that people have been let go, that they're no longer doing this. If there were abuses of Tulsi Gabbard's liberties, I want to hear from that. But I want repercussions to come from this and I think you've said something's coming. Please let us know and let us know how the program, the destruction of civil liberties can be minimized. I, frankly probably have trouble with the whole program, but let's see if there's some way. But we need significant reform. If it needs legislation, please come to us with that. Thank you for your testimony today.

Kristi Noem (01:45:39):

We'll do that. We'll do that. Thank you.

Senator Peters (01:45:42):

Thank you, again, Secretary Noem for being here. I just want to follow up briefly with Chairman Paul's questions about the cost of the wall, the billions of dollars that are going to be put forward. We do have to have accurate numbers so that we could look at that for funding it. But I would hope you also take a look at all of the costs of a wall. Because there are a lot of other secondary kinds of defenses you have to put forward. I was at the wall, I've been with security folks. They tell me that a lot of the cartels have designed very sophisticated technologies to get over the wall. They're called ladders and they're called ropes.

(01:46:15)
So a wall doesn't really do the job if there's not a lot of other background technologies there. So you just can't put out a cost for the wall. [inaudible 01:46:23] that's not going to be as effective without everything else. So let's have a discussion about that. For the first time in U.S. history, the federal government at the direction of President Trump is moving immigrants apprehended and detained in the United States on civil immigration charges to Naval Station at Guantanamo Bay, which I know you're very familiar with. In March, I traveled to Guantanamo Bay with several colleagues to have a firsthand examination of the detention operations underway. And I certainly have serious concerns about the cost involved there. To date, can you tell us the total cost for detaining individuals at Guantanamo Bay?

Kristi Noem (01:47:04):

You want the cost per individual?

Senator Peters (01:47:05):

Do you have that?

Kristi Noem (01:47:06):

I do not have that with me today, sir. I can get that for you.

Senator Peters (01:47:09):

Well, I do have a number. Do you know how much it costs to hold an immigrant in ICE detention facility in the United States? Do you have that number per day?

Kristi Noem (01:47:21):

Are you talking per day? A 100 and… And I believe the last estimate that I got was $142 a day, around in that approximately, per day?

Senator Peters (01:47:27):

Yeah, but it's close to what I'm understanding. I understand it's $165 per day. So it's in the range. I'm still waiting for detailed financial information from this administration from my time to Guantanamo Bay. In fact, we [inaudible 01:47:41] with ranking member… Or Chairman Paul and the ranking member together, we wanted more information on the cost there. When I was there, the two-month cost estimate for operations was $43 million. When we were down there talking to the officials there. And that does not include transportation to and from the island. We find that people are sent to the island and then they're sent back to the United States again before they're sent out. I'm not sure why we have all those costs. We have plenty of ICE facilities to keep them here. Why do you have to send them there and back. And on the day that I visited, there were 87 people in custody. And my understanding is, that's a pretty normal number. At that time at least.

(01:48:22)
So my back of the napkin calculation, we're waiting for your numbers, is that it's costing about a $100,000 a day to keep someone at Guantanamo Bay. Man, this is like ripe for DOGE. Why is DOGE not down there, that we're spending a $100,000 a day to keep someone in Guantanamo. And we fly them down there, we keep them there a while, then we fly them back to the United States. Or we could keep them here for $165 a day. I think that's kind of outrageous. So I'm concerned by the staggering cost of this and I would hope, Secretary, you could commit providing this committee a detailed breakdown of the total cost of that operation there. There were just a sea of empty beds. There was all sorts of security folks and nobody in those beds. Which is why it's so expensive. So Chairman Paul will probably use this on his Festivus Report later, I'm sure, of outrageous government spending. And I'll look forward to seeing that. Secretary Noem, are you familiar with Section 7… Or excuse me, 872 of the Homeland Security Act of 2002?

Kristi Noem (01:49:26):

I'm… It sounds familiar, sir. You'll have to remind me the topic. Yes.

Senator Peters (01:49:31):

Well, Section 872 requires you, as secretary, to provide a 60-day notice to Congress of any creation, deletion, consolidation, or alteration of organizations within the department that are not required in statute. Which must include an explanation for the rationale behind any charges. It also prohibits you from making any changes to offices in the status. So my question for you is, why have you not provided notice to Congress of the changes you are making at the department and will you be doing so in the near future, and will you include intended reduction in forces in that?

(01:50:07)
For example, you've already terminated virtually the whole Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Office staff without any communication to Congress about your intent. And the only letter yesterday claiming all of the statutory responsibilities would be met… You sent a letter, but it conflicts certainly with the whistleblower disclosure that I received last week. So please explain to the committee why you are not following this law.

Kristi Noem (01:50:30):

Well, Senator, we are following that law. Those offices that you referenced are still open and functioning and providing their duties as required, but they have been right-sized. Many times the Office of Civil Rights and Civil Liberties or the Ombudsman Office, which you and I visited about before, had grown quite expansive. They were used as a political tool, suing and attacking each other and censoring individuals, and not doing the job for which they were created. So we've right-sized them, put them back on mission. And if there would be an instance to where notification is required, I certainly will follow that.

Chairman Paul (01:51:10):

Time has expired. Senator Moreno.

Senator Moreno (01:51:12):

Thank you again, Secretary. So following up on the themes that were just brought up, it seems to me that the most common sense answer and the least expensive way to house criminal aliens in the country is to not allow them to come here in the first place, right? So whether it's $160 a day, a $100,000 a day, it should be zero per day. And I hope that my Democrat colleagues, let's just codify what President Trump has done and prevent criminal aliens or anybody from entering this country illegally.

(01:51:46)
That seems like the most fiscally conservative thing. I hope when you're talking about these questions to the Secretary that we just say, "Let's just stop allowing people to come into the country illegally." By the way, that doesn't mean we don't want people to come here legally. That's the hypocrisy I just don't understand. When you're becrying the cost of housing criminal aliens, but you turned a blind eye where [inaudible 01:52:10] we had 10 million people come into this country illegally. Shifting gears real quick. You were a governor. It surprised you to learn that you're rated one of the top five most fiscally conservative, frugal governors in America last year?

Kristi Noem (01:52:27):

No, it wouldn't surprise me. I worked hard at making sure we were accountable to our taxpayers.

Senator Moreno (01:52:31):

So you are going to commit, and I think it'd be obvious, that when you are appropriated money through the reconciliation process to help you do what you need to do, that you're going to be as fiscally prudent with that money, correct?

Kristi Noem (01:52:46):

That is correct.

Senator Moreno (01:52:47):

All right, so let's talk about what they need. Certainly there's a wall, but wall by itself, to Senator Peter's point, doesn't accomplish the mission. There's all kinds of advanced technology. I was visiting Anduril. They have some incredible technology for detection that makes the Border Patrol agents' lives… You're looking at technology like that, right?

Kristi Noem (01:53:05):

Oh, absolutely. That's one of the discussions that we've had quite often with members of Congress and in these committee hearings is just, the wall will look very different based on where it is. Plus the wall was never finished. Even where you have a steel bollard wall. Many times they erected the steel bollard wall, but didn't build out the technology to support it and to keep individuals from throwing ladders and ropes over them. There's a whole system that was designed to operate together. And even when the wall was built, President Trump was never given the opportunity to complete the system that would actually secure it much better than just simple infrastructure.

Senator Moreno (01:53:42):

Sure. So physical barrier, tunnel detections.

Kristi Noem (01:53:44):

Yes. Technology surveillance.

Senator Moreno (01:53:46):

Technology. And some of these technologies can determine a difference between an animal and a human. Can direct Border Patrol agents-

Kristi Noem (01:53:52):

Correct.

Senator Moreno (01:53:52):

…safely. Let them know what to expect when they're there. So those are all the technologies. Let's talk about another part of what I would call the wall, which is the human element. How was the morale of the Border Patrol agents when you got there. When you took over day one and you visited them? Kind of describe briefly what that was like.

Kristi Noem (01:54:09):

Well, they were very discouraged. If you remember, many of us-

Senator Moreno (01:54:12):

I think you're being kind with discouraged.

Kristi Noem (01:54:15):

[inaudible 01:54:14]. Well, they were not allowed to do their jobs. They hired onto Border Patrol, and ICE I would say it's the same story, to do a job and they weren't allowed to do that by the last administration. So now-

Senator Moreno (01:54:27):

So there's recruitment challenges.

Kristi Noem (01:54:29):

There was, but not anymore. I mean Border Patrol had a dramatic increase.

Senator Moreno (01:54:32):

But we have to make sure we pay them properly.

Kristi Noem (01:54:34):

That's correct.

Senator Moreno (01:54:35):

So that's part of the money, right?

Kristi Noem (01:54:35):

Yes.

Senator Moreno (01:54:36):

That we have raises for them. Near and dear to my heart is the automobiles that they use there. Describe the insanity of the kinds of vehicles that Biden and Mayorkas was giving… These are the most rugged terrains in America. Boulders and rocks and hills, and they were sending F150s out there with 17-inch wheels. And how many of the fleet was down just because of total and complete inability to accomplish the mission?

Kristi Noem (01:55:04):

At times it was upwards to 30% to 40% of the fleet just was unusable. Not able to be maintained. It would, times the percentage would increase based on the conditions to which they were deployed as well.

Senator Moreno (01:55:16):

And I know you and I have talked about this, but I just want to reinforce it on a record. We have a great company that builds cars in Ohio called Jeep. They make a Gladiator that would put giant tires and wheels on a car and they would be an amazing Border Patrol agent. And I think even our chairman would love to see new automobiles so that the Border Patrol agents can do their job. And that's certainly part of the funding. Would that be something that you'd look at?

Kristi Noem (01:55:41):

Yes, it's something that we need to address. We have to. In order for them to do their jobs, they have to have the right equipment.

Senator Moreno (01:55:48):

Last question, is there anything else that we might not have asked you that you think is important for this committee to know?

Kristi Noem (01:55:54):

Well, I think that you've covered a lot of the components. We haven't discussed the Secret Service. And I know that that's been a big topic for this committee in the past. I have the ability and the responsibility to oversee the Secret Service. And I just want you to know that we've gone away from the DEI recruitment directive that the Biden administration has utilized to recruit agents and what their purposes are. And we've made sure that they have the ability to do their job and protect the most powerful. And one of the statistics I think you would find to be helpful is we have an over 200% increase in applications to work for the Secret Service because of the work that Sean Curran and his team have done to really tell the mission and story of what they do every day and how important it is.

Senator Moreno (01:56:36):

Thank you.

Chairman Paul (01:56:36):

Senator Blumenthal.

Sen. Blumenthal (01:56:38):

Thank you. Secretary Noem, on May 5th, The Customs and Border Protection, CBP, quietly rescinded, I'm not sure it's even been reported there, quote, "processing of pregnant and postpartum non-citizens and infants" end quote, policy. Which was issued on January 28th, 2022, citing it as, quote, "obsolete or misaligned with current agency guidance and immigration enforcement policies." That January 28th policy memorandum followed years of inadequate care, documented by a report from the Inspector General of the Department of Homeland Security, showing that the treatment of pregnant, postpartum, and nursing women and infants was just horrendously and horrifically inadequate.

(01:57:39)
And a recent site visit by Senate Judiciary Committee staff confirmed that this problem is continuing. That pregnant women being detained do not have access to adequate healthcare. Do you agree or disagree that babies and pregnant women within CBP and ICE custody should receive care that are tailored to their specific needs? And why in God's name would that policy be rescinded, providing that care?

Kristi Noem (01:58:16):

Well, Senator, I will look at the specifics of that policy and what was changed. As of May 5th, I would say that everybody that's incarcerated or is brought into custody and is in a detention center is receiving appropriate care. And that we are making accommodations for individuals that have different physical situations or pregnancy.

Sen. Blumenthal (01:58:36):

But as a matter of fact, it's not happening.

Kristi Noem (01:58:38):

And so I will look at the specific policies as to why one of the requirements may have been changed or adapted. If you have a specific to point out, that would be fantastic.

Sen. Blumenthal (01:58:48):

You don't know about this policy decision?

Kristi Noem (01:58:49):

I do know about the policy change, but I've looked at the guidelines of how we handle individuals that are [inaudible 01:58:55].

Sen. Blumenthal (01:58:54):

Do you know about the policy change?

Kristi Noem (01:58:56):

I do.

Sen. Blumenthal (01:58:56):

How could you allow it to happen?

Kristi Noem (01:58:58):

Well, sir, what are you finding wrong with what we do with individuals who are pregnant that are in our detention centers? Is there concerns I should be addressing?

Sen. Blumenthal (01:59:06):

Women who are pregnant or who have just had a child and their infant babies are not receiving adequate medical care.

Kristi Noem (01:59:14):

Everybody receives medical care.

Sen. Blumenthal (01:59:15):

Aren't you concerned?

Kristi Noem (01:59:16):

Everybody receives medical care that is in our custody and even if they are going to be returned-

Sen. Blumenthal (01:59:21):

Why was the policy rescinded then?

Kristi Noem (01:59:22):

Even if they're going to be returned back to their home country, we are making sure that they have medical care in their home country before they are sent there. So that is something that we do very diligently, is to make sure that anybody who has a medical issue, a concern, something that needs to be addressed is taken care of in those detention centers.

Sen. Blumenthal (01:59:39):

What you are telling me right now is factually untrue.

Kristi Noem (01:59:41):

No. It's actually the-

Sen. Blumenthal (01:59:42):

But more important-

Kristi Noem (01:59:43):

…it's followed through with every single day.

Sen. Blumenthal (01:59:45):

…you permitted a policy to be rescinded that provides for adequate care because it was, quote, "obsolete or misaligned," with your agency's guidance and immigration enforcement priorities. How can you sit here and tell us that caring for pregnant women or infants or women postpartum is misaligned with your priorities? It just boggles my mind.

Kristi Noem (02:00:18):

Everyone who's in our care and in our detention centers receives-

Sen. Blumenthal (02:00:21):

But it's your policy not to care for them.

Kristi Noem (02:00:22):

…medical care that is appropriate to them in their specific condition. Absolutely that is happening.

Sen. Blumenthal (02:00:27):

You're about to lose a fifth of your workforce in FEMA, correct?

Kristi Noem (02:00:33):

There are individuals in FEMA that are no longer working with us. They may have taken early retirement or preferred retirement.

Sen. Blumenthal (02:00:39):

How are you going to meet the needs of our constituents in Missouri or Connecticut, which suffered floods recently? I saw FEMA in action then as I've seen them over the years. They are dedicated, vigorous public servants. They appear and spend hours and days and weeks caring for people. You're losing a fifth of them, including most of the leadership. What's your plan to replace them?

Kristi Noem (02:01:02):

We've got many people in FEMA that do very good work every day taking care of people that are in a crisis situation that are experiencing the worst day of their lives. The problem is, is that over the years and under the Biden administration, they failed the American people.

Sen. Blumenthal (02:01:16):

You're not answering my question, Madam Secretary.

Kristi Noem (02:01:19):

Oh, I absolutely am.

Sen. Blumenthal (02:01:19):

How are you going to replace a workforce that is absolutely essential-

Kristi Noem (02:01:21):

You can't convince me that any federal government agency does a better job just because it has more people.

Sen. Blumenthal (02:01:25):

…to helping the constituents in Missouri.

Kristi Noem (02:01:25):

More people does not equal a better job.

Sen. Blumenthal (02:01:29):

You've just committed to help them. You're not going to be able to help-

Kristi Noem (02:01:30):

Better job is accountability to people-

Sen. Blumenthal (02:01:31):

…in Connecticut or in Missouri or anywhere in the country-

Kristi Noem (02:01:34):

…and making sure we're taking care of them.

Sen. Blumenthal (02:01:35):

…if you don't have the dedicated public servants in FEMA. And you're losing them.

Chairman Paul (02:01:40):

Time has expired. Senator Kim.

Sen. Kim (02:01:43):

Thank you Chair, Madam Secretary. I saw the proposed budget and it showed a decrease for FEMA Non-Disaster Grants. It was a proposed cut of about $646 million, but it didn't clarify what programs you thought that needed to be cut. So I guess I just wanted to ask, is the Nonprofit Security Grant program one that you're considering cutting?

Kristi Noem (02:02:05):

Well, we're having discussions with the White House on grants that will be continued in the future. The President firmly believes that FEMA needs to be eliminated as the way it stands today. That it needs to be reformed. And that states and local governments should do emergency response with the support of the federal government. So he believes it shouldn't be in the long-term recovery, 20 years later still waiting to make claims to go out. And many of the grant programs within FEMA were moved over into climate change priorities. They were moved over into building bike paths and shade infrastructure and planting trees.

(02:02:41)
When really, if it is a disaster and if we need to mitigate something happening in the future, we should be building better roads and bridges and putting in bigger culverts in areas that need to be addressed. Not necessarily planting shade trees and parks with disaster recovery dollars. And that's what people need to remember, is all of these dollars that come from these grants, many times they're pulling out of that disaster recovery fund. So I think this evaluation of every single grant is appropriate. Many of them, after they're evaluated and found to be appropriate, they're deployed. But that examination is something I take very seriously that I need to do to make sure it's on task for why that grant was established.

Sen. Kim (02:03:19):

Look, I'll just say point blank, I think the answer should have been a clear no. And I think that there's very strong bipartisanship here in Congress, especially in the Senate, to protect the Nonprofit Security Grant program. It's literally the best tool that people in New Jersey are telling me is needed to be able to counter anti-Semitism. I can't tell you the number of synagogues and temples that are lined up to try to get this type of funding.

(02:03:46)
In fact, given the rise of anti-Semitism that we have in our country right now, we should be surging resources not cutting. So I would hope that you'd have a more declarative no in that vein, because I'll be honest with you, I' been trying to see if we can dramatically increase funding to the Nonprofit Security Grant program to try to fight this surge of anti-Semitism. So I guess I just want to ask you, would you be open to supporting an increase in funding to the Nonprofit Security Grant program if I'm able to work with some of my colleagues to be able to do that?

Kristi Noem (02:04:18):

We definitely have seen the value in that program and are willing to discuss this with you. What I would say is that we have to do an evaluation to make sure those dollars are going to the appropriate entities that they were intended. So they have been very important for many different people in different communities and I recognize that. This evaluation on how that program can be improved will be very important.

Sen. Kim (02:04:42):

Well, look, I want to engage with you on this further. Because when we're hearing this language about abolishing FEMA and whatnot, one of the elements that people have raised most concerns about is, what does that mean for the Nonprofit Security Grant program? So I really do urge you to work with me and this committee to have a declarative stance on that. So people, especially those concerned about anti-Semitism, can have clarity on what comes next.

(02:05:05)
You did raise the FEMA Review Council, which you said is going to be meeting for the first time today. I just wanted to see, because we've talked about this before about what comes next, I wanted to see if you would commit to working with this committee and hearing our perspectives as part of the council's work and giving us an opportunity to engage before the committee concludes their work and finalizes recommendations. Is that something you can commit to?

Kristi Noem (02:05:29):

Yes, absolutely. There are several things that FEMA does, that need your input, statutory requirements. This is a reform process that most certainly will include you in this committee.

Sen. Kim (02:05:40):

Yeah, that's something I know we talked about before you were confirmed that I hope we can follow up on that. Because I think it's incredibly important. Everyone here recognizes that reforms are needed. But now the question is just, how it is situated. And I certainly have some thoughts I want to reflect from the folks in New Jersey. As mentioned earlier, hurricane season is upon us. Do you have a sense of when the White House is going to announce a full nominee for FEMA administrator?

Kristi Noem (02:06:05):

It should be soon, but I'm not going to put a timeframe on President Trump and his administration.

Sen. Kim (02:06:09):

Okay. I just, again, we want to have confidence that we have the leadership in place to be able to do this. The last thing I'll just say-

Kristi Noem (02:06:15):

We do have a leader in place and I can connect you with him as well. I'm sure [inaudible 02:06:19].

Sen. Kim (02:06:19):

Okay. We'll, I'll make sure we follow up, but it would good to have that formal nomination. The last thing, and maybe we'll just do this in a QFR, but there has been a cut¸ reports of cuts, to the national database tracking domestic terrorism. DHS cut, a defunding. I just wanted to ask, is that correct and is there any way that you could reconsider that and see if we can make sure we're tracking domestic terrorism rise in the country?

Kristi Noem (02:06:41):

Yeah, I can follow up with you on that and get you that information.

Sen. Kim (02:06:43):

Okay. Thank you, Secretary.

Chairman Paul (02:06:45):

You're almost done. You've outlasted everyone but me. And you don't have to necessarily answer this. You can comment if you want, but I think one of the problems I've always had with discussion of the border, is that people who often are conservative and talk about fiscal conservatism, once we start talking about the border, then it's all out the window. So the estimates on the wall I think are important. I don't think it's a very conservative estimate. It's more like $30 million a mile as opposed to… CBP says six, you said 12 for current. It's somewhere in there. But I also would say that you're controlling 95% of the border without a wall right now. So that's an argument that maybe you don't need a wall, you need willpower. And I give President Trump great compliments for what he's done and what you have done. I mean, 95% of the control. No new bill, no new money.

(02:07:35)
Now, I'm not saying no new money is needed. I think you need more Border Patrol and you're going to need more money for that, but I think it should be within reason. Now, if I were in charge of the border though, and I wanted immediate control and I wasn't quite there yet, I would put a 100 helipads down. Concrete. About 50 yards by 50 yards. And I'd put a 100 helicopters along the border every 10 miles. And I'd simply use technology to patrol the border and I'd pick anybody and everybody up who crosses the border illegally with the helicopters.

(02:08:06)
And I think you could do that, and you probably do it for 500 million versus 46 billion. So I know the wall is a great symbolic value, but I think we should reassess what both the costs, what we want to do and how much it costs, since we are controlling 95% of the border. I think part of it is, you've moved some money forward that needs to be replaced. So I'm not against or calling for no money, but I do think that the $46 billion is not justified unless we see something else from the administration.

Kristi Noem (02:08:41):

Okay.

Chairman Paul (02:08:41):

Thank you for your time today and your commitment to work with the committee. The hearing record will remain open until 5:00 p.m. May 21st, 2025, for the submission of statements and questions for the record. The hearing is adjourned. Thank you.

Kristi Noem (02:08:51):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.