Kristen Welker (00:00):
And joining me now is the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson of Louisiana. Speaker Johnson, welcome back to Meet the Press.
Speaker Mike Johnson (00:08):
Hey, great to be with you as always.
Kristen Welker (00:10):
It is great to have you back. Let's start right there, talking about what is now officially called the One Big Beautiful Bill Act. Here's what Elon Musk had to say about it. Take a listen.
Elon Musk (00:24):
I was disappointed to see the massive spending bill, frankly, which increases the budget deficit, not just decrease it, and undermines the work that the DOGE team is doing.
Kristen Welker (00:37):
And Mr. Speaker, a number of Senate Republicans share Elon Musk's concerns, that it will add to the debt and deficit. So, how do you convince your Republican Senate colleagues to get on board and support this bill?
Speaker Mike Johnson (00:53):
Well, I convinced my friends and colleagues by use of the facts. I sent a long text message to my good friend, Elon Musk, after he made those comments the other day to explain, this is not a spending bill. This is a reconciliation package. It is reconciling a budget. So there is some additional spending, as you noted earlier at the opening, for national security, for historic investments in border security, the largest in generations, because those are necessary expenditures. But what my friends are missing is the tremendous and historic level of spending cuts that are also in the same package.
(01:29)
So a lot of the analysis that people are pointing to is from groups, for example, like the Congressional Budget Office, the CBO. They have projected anemic economic growth. They're assuming a growth level of 1.8% over the next 10 years. Kristen, never in US history has the US economy sustained less than 2% economic growth over a 10-year period. What's going to happen here is exactly the opposite. We're going to have historic growth because we're basing this on the history of the recent past.
(01:58)
Remember in the first Trump Administration, the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, the CBO was often its estimates of that one by $1.5 trillion. Okay, because they underestimated the incredible growth that would be brought about. This is going to be jet fuel. The reason we call it the Big Beautiful Bill is because it is a tremendous pro-growth package entwined in this legislation that is going to make everybody's incomes go up. There's going to be more job opportunity, more opportunity to climb up that economic ladder in America, because job creators, entrepreneurs, and risk takers will have the government off their backs. They will have lower taxes and they will be expanding their businesses. We're incentivizing US manufacturing again, we're bringing jobs back to the US, that's going to help everybody. All boats rise like we did in 2017, except this time it's on steroids.
Kristen Welker (02:44):
Well, it is worth noting that some budget experts say that in 2017, actually the CBO was pretty right when you adjusted for inflation. But let me read you something that you said back in 2021-
Speaker Mike Johnson (02:56):
[inaudible 00:02:58].
Kristen Welker (02:57):
... about the CBO. This was in relation to a Democratic bill. You said, "The CBO has confirmed this bill adds nearly $400 billion to the deficit, contrary to the White House's claim that the bill is paid for." So do you only believe the CBO when a Democrat is President, Mr. Speaker?
Speaker Mike Johnson (03:17):
No, this is very easy to explain. The CBO sometimes gets projections correct, but they're always off, every single time, when they project economic growth. They always underestimate the growth that will be brought about by tax cuts and reduction in regulations.
(03:32)
Look, when we did this in 2017, the first two years of the Trump Administration, we literally brought about the greatest economy in the history of the world, not just the US, because we got the government off the backs of the people who create the jobs, and we allowed hardworking Americans to have more money in their pocket that they could take home. We're doing that again. Remember, in this Big Beautiful Bill, the reason we call it that, is because there's benefits for everybody. It's geared for hardworking Americans, lower and middle income Americans. No tax on tips, no tax on overtime, no tax on interest on car loans, if you buy products made in the USA. We're going to give relief to seniors on social security. There's so many benefits and features in this bill and it's going to allow everybody to do better.
(04:16)
And at the same time, projecting and ensuring the largest amount of savings literally in history. There's no government on planet Earth that's ever saved over $1.6 trillion in a piece of legislation. This one does. And so when you reduce government spending and you allow people to keep more of their hard-earned money, the economy grows, and that's exactly what's going to happen here.
Kristen Welker (04:37):
Well, the Joint Committee on Taxation is projecting just three hundredths of a percent on growth. But let me just ask you, I want you to address the concerns of your colleagues, Senator Ron Johnson, Senator Rand Paul. Why doesn't this bill do more to address the debt and deficit, Mr. Speaker?
Speaker Mike Johnson (04:54):
Yeah, well listen, I agree with my good friend, Ron Johnson, for example, a lot of the comments that he stated about government spending. We have a north of $36 trillion federal debt right now, and it is the largest national security concern for the US. I am a fiscal hawk. Many of my Republican colleagues in the House feel the same way. But we didn't get in this situation overnight, Kristen. It took us decades, many decades of Congress's, frankly, mismanagement of the public fisc to get in this situation. And the last four years, the Biden Administration increased spending dramatically. So it's going to take us a while to get out of it. We can't flip a magic switch and reverse it overnight, but this is the largest step forward in the right direction that Congress has ever made.
(05:37)
I liken this to an aircraft carrier. You don't turn an aircraft carrier on a dime, it takes a mile of open ocean. This is the biggest turn in that wheel that we would've had in generations and this is the first of a number of steps. This is a key point. This is not the only reconciliation bill. We're going to have a second budget reconciliation bill that follows after this. And we're beginning next week the appropriations process, which is the spending bills for government. And you're going to see a lot of the DOGE cuts and a lot of this new fiscal restraint reflected in what Congress does next. So, stay tuned. This is not the end all, be all. I tell my friends, my fellow fiscal hawks, we've got to get our fiscal house in order, and this is an incredibly and historic first start.
Kristen Welker (06:18):
Mr. Speaker, if the Big Beautiful Bill does add to the debt, will President Trump own that?
Speaker Mike Johnson (06:29):
It's not going to add to the debt, but I can tell you that President Trump is laser focused on two primary things, delivering on his campaign promises in the America first agenda, which is what a record number of 77 million voters, popular votes requested and demanded and gave us a mandate to do.
(06:45)
But he's also concerned as I am, as Ron Johnson is, as Rand Paul is, as all of us are about the nation's debt. And he and I talk about this frequently and he is excited about changing that trajectory. That President Trump, I think could be the most consequential president of the modern era because he has these opportunities to do these big things. The One Big Beautiful Bill is a big first step to provide relief for the American people, to give everybody more take-home pay, more money in their pocket, and to change the trajectory of the country. And again, it's the first of a number of steps and President Trump is committed to doing this.
Kristen Welker (07:16):
Mr. Speaker, the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, the Tax Foundation, the Penn Wharton Budget Model, all say this will add trillions of dollars to the deficit. Are you really telling the American people this will not add one penny to the debt and deficit? You can guarantee that?
Speaker Mike Johnson (07:34):
I am telling you, this is going to reduce the deficit. I mean, you cite some of these figures. Do you know what their economic growth projections are? The Committee for Responsible Budgeting, they're not even, I don't think they're assuming any economic growth. I mean, that's not realistic. A lot of these groups use what they call static scoring and not dynamic scoring. Dynamic scoring in layman's terms is, reality, that we are going to spur on tremendous economic growth here. And so you're going to have a higher job participation number in the economy, you're going to have higher wages, you're going to have more jobs provided.
(08:06)
And in addition to that, the President's extraordinary policies are producing great things for the country. The tariff policy that was so controversial in the beginning is having an extraordinary effect on the US economy. It's going to bring more jobs and billions of dollars of investment, trillions of dollars of investment back to the US. All these things are working in tandem. And I'm telling you, just wait, we'll have plenty of time for this to all shake out before the next election cycle, the mid-year for Congress, and everyone will see, they're going to be doing a lot better before that election.
Kristen Welker (08:36):
All right, let's move on to Medicaid now. As you know, that's a big part of the debate as well. Here's what the American Hospital Association is warning. It writes, "The sheer magnitude of the level of reductions to the Medicaid program alone will impact all parties. Hospitals, especially in rural and underserved areas will be forced to make difficult decisions about whether they will have to reduce services, reduce staff, and potentially consider closing their doors." Republican Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri calling this a hospital tax, Mr. Speaker. So, does the House bill put rural hospitals and frankly, the most vulnerable Americans at risk?
Speaker Mike Johnson (09:20):
No, and you can underscore what I'm about to tell you. There are no Medicaid cuts in the Big Beautiful Bill. We're not cutting Medicaid. What we're doing is strengthening the program. We're reducing fraud, waste and abuse that is rampant in Medicaid to ensure, that that program is essential for so many people, ensure that it's available for the most vulnerable. It's intended for young, single pregnant women and the disabled and the elderly. But what's happening right now is, you have a lot of people, for example, young men, able-bodied workers who are on Medicaid, they're not working when they can. That drains resources from the people that need it most, and so what we're doing here is an important and frankly, heroic thing to preserve the program so that it doesn't become insolvent.
(10:03)
This is not going to hurt rural hospitals, there's a lot of flexibility built into this. They keep saying that 7.6 million people is the figure that is supposedly going to be affected by this. But when you look at those numbers and you break them down, this is high on public opinion polling. You're talking about 1.4 million illegal aliens that are receiving Medicaid right now. They're not entitled to that. This is for US citizens in those vulnerable populations. There's about 4.8 million people that they're referring to that are able-bodied workers. If you are able to work and you're not, and you are riding on the public wagon, you need to help pull it.
(10:39)
And by the way, Kristen, this is no Draconian requirement. All we are requiring in the legislation is 20 hours a week. You can volunteer in your community, you can be in a job training program, or you can get to work. And this is my message to young men around the country who are taking advantage of the system. It is abusing the system. We're going to fix that, and I'm telling you, that is a very popular thing among the American people because it comports with common sense.
Kristen Welker (11:01):
Well, let's talk about that 4.8 million number. That is a CBO number, by the way, which estimates how many people would lose Medicaid if this bill were to go into law. The CBA, CBO is [inaudible 00:11:14]-
Speaker Mike Johnson (11:14):
No, no. Wait, wait. Hold on.
Kristen Welker (11:15):
Hold on, hold-
Speaker Mike Johnson (11:15):
They don't Kristen, they don't... Okay.
Kristen Welker (11:18):
Let me make my point and then I'll let you make your point. I think it's important to point out the CBO is not saying specifically those 4.8 million are engaging in fraud. They say many will lose coverage because of paperwork, red tape, or failing and falling short of the new rules. So just let me ask you directly, do you have any actual proof that these people are engaging in fraud? Millions of Americans, as you say.
Speaker Mike Johnson (11:45):
This is a very important distinction. Those 4.8 million people will not lose their Medicaid unless they choose to do so. I will into any town hall in any district in America and explain what this is, and every single person will nod their heads and go, "Oh, that makes sense." You're telling me that you're going to require the able-bodied, these young men, for example, okay, to only work or volunteer in their community for 20 hours a week, and that's too cumbersome for them? I'm not buying it. The American people are not buying it. This is a new requirement, it should have been put in a long time ago. And the people who are complaining that these people are going to lose their coverage because they can't fulfill the paperwork. This is minor enforcement of this policy, and it follows common sense.
(12:26)
When people work, when able-bodied young men work, it's good for them, for their dignity, their purpose, and it's good for the community they're in. If you can't find a job, then volunteer in your community for 20 hours and you will meet the requirement. That is a basic minimal standard.
Kristen Welker (12:42):
Very quickly, because we're almost out of time, Mr. Speaker, do you have any actual evidence that these people that you refer to are engaging in fraud?
Speaker Mike Johnson (12:52):
Well, there is a tremendous amount of fraud in Medicaid, it's undisputed. Tens of billions of dollars every year are lost in fraud to Medicaid. So there's another category of people, 1.2 million that are totally ineligible to be on the program. We also have evidence of people who are listed and enrolled in multiple programs in multiple states simultaneously and they are cheating the system. I'm going to say this very clearly. Our legislation preserves Medicaid, strengthens Medicaid for the people who actually need it and deserve it. And we're going to get rid of the fraud, waste and abuse, and that is a long time overdue.
Kristen Welker (13:21):
And some of what you are referring to refers to improper paperwork, but let's move on because one of the other big issues in the Big Beautiful Bill is taxes. President Trump had actually at one point raised the idea of letting the tax rate on the wealthiest people go back to that 2017 rate. The House bill though does make the lower rate permanent. So Mr. Speaker, why do millionaires need to keep that tax cut?
Speaker Mike Johnson (13:49):
That's a Democrat talking point. This is not giving tax cuts to millionaires, it's the opposite. The people in the tax bracket that you're referring to, many of them are small business owners. They're the people that provide the jobs in every community in America. They use pass-through taxation, and we don't get in the weeds, we don't have time to get into the complications of it. We are the party that reduces taxes for all Americans. And I'm telling you, the One Big Beautiful Bill is geared for hardworking Americans. The biggest beneficiaries of this will be low and middle income Americans. That's what we did in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, that's what we'll do again by extending those tax cuts in perpetuity and making them permanent. That was a major promise of the President on the campaign trail. It's a major promise of ours, and we are going to fulfill it. The Republican Party is doing right by the American people and they're going to feel the effects of that soon.
Kristen Welker (14:36):
And Mr. Speaker, just to be clear, I mean, this is not a democratic talking point. I'm asking you about something that President Trump himself had floated the idea of. It is estimated that if the bill becomes law, the top 10% of households would see an increase in resources, but the bottom 10% would see a decrease in resources. Why are you comfortable with that?
Speaker Mike Johnson (14:57):
No, that's simply not... I'm not comfortable with that, it is not true. Look at the actual facts of the tax cuts that were extended. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act again from 2017, the people that benefited most from that were the lowest income Americans. It was households that made between 20, $30,000 a year annually. They had the biggest benefit from the TCJA. Also, the people that make $40,000 or less had their best tax benefits in over 40 years. Go back and look at the statistics.
(15:29)
So what we're doing right now is by making all those tax cuts permanent, we're preventing the largest tax increase in US history. Kristen, if we don't get this bill passed, every American is going to receive the largest tax increase in the history of our country at the end of this year when the TCJA expires. Don't forget that we have to extend it, and this is the vehicle to do it.
Kristen Welker (15:49):
Bottom line. Mr. Speaker, you all had set a July 4th deadline to get all of this passed. Are you confident you can meet that July 4th deadline?
Speaker Mike Johnson (16:00):
Yeah, they've always discounted us. I mean, I said I would do it out of the House before Memorial Day and I was laughed at when I said that back early part of the year. But we beat it by four days. Okay, we're going to get this done. The sooner the better, because all these extraordinary benefits that we're talking about have to happen as soon as possible. And I'm convinced that the Senate will do it and do the right thing, send it back to us. We're going to get it to the President's desk and we're all going to have a glorious celebration on Independence Day by July 4th when he gets this signed into law.
Kristen Welker (16:28):
All right, well, we're going to be tracking it very closely. Speaker Mike Johnson, thank you so much for being here to talk about it. Really appreciate it.
Speaker Mike Johnson (16:36):
Great to be with you. Thanks, Kristen.
Lester Holt (16:37):
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