Feb 5, 2023

Pentagon Gives News Briefing on Chinese Balloon Flying Over the U.S. Transcript

Pentagon Gives News Briefing on Chinese Balloon Flying Over the U.S. Transcript
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Pentagon Gives News Briefing on Chinese Balloon Flying Over the U.S. Read the transcript here.

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General Pat Ryder (00:00):

Good afternoon everyone. Just a few things at the top and then we’ll get right to your questions. First, as you can see, we are conducting press briefings here in our temporary press briefing room, while our primary location undergoes extensive technical renovations and upgrades. We do greatly appreciate your patience and flexibility as we work to install some long overdue upgrades to the Pentagon Press Briefing room. Because we do not have internet or phone capability in this area of the Pentagon for a variety of reasons, our normal call-in options will not be available. So, for those who have had to call in, we apologize for the inconvenience. However, we will aim to get our briefing transcripts and the audio up as quickly as possible for reporting purposes. We’ll also aim to answer your questions through our DOD press desk when you send them to us.

Moving forward, we’ll look at ways to improve our briefing operations in the facilitation and expect that our regular press briefings will resume back in the press briefing room in middle to late May. So again, we appreciate your patience and flexibility and extend our thanks to the Department of the Air Force for allowing us to use Airman’s Hall as our temporary briefing home. In other news, Secretary Austin returned yesterday from a very productive series of meetings in the Republic of Korea and the Philippines. The secretary and his Korean counterpart Minister Lee Jong-sup, jointly reaffirmed measures to enhance extended deterrence on the Korean Peninsula. The two leaders additionally pledged to closely cooperate regarding US strategic assets in the future as well as further expand and bolster the level and scale of combined exercises and training. And the Philippines Secretary Austin had his first in-person meeting with his counterpart, Secretary Galvez, and reiterated that the US commitment to Philippines security is ironclad.

The secretary expressed his appreciation for the Philippines approval of four new enhanced defense cooperation agreement locations and both Secretary Austin and Secretary Galvez noted that the EDCA is a key pillar of alliance cooperation and supports combined training exercises and interoperability. Separately, the Department of Defense announced today a significant new package of security assistance for Ukraine. This includes the authorization of a presidential drawdown of security assistance valued at up to $425 million, as well as $1.75 billion in Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative Funds. The presidential drawdown is the 31st such drawdown of equipment from DOD inventories for Ukraine. In total, the US has now committed $32 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since 2014 and $29.3 billion since Russia’s unprovoked and illegal invasion nearly one year ago this month. Today’s announcement includes critical air defense capabilities to help Ukraine defend its people, as well as armored infantry vehicles and more equipment that Ukraine is using so effectively including javelin anti-tank missiles, artillery ammunition, and conventional and long range rockets for US provided HIMARS. Additional information on the security package can be found on defense.gov.

In regards to our announcement last night regarding the high altitude surveillance balloon, I’m not going to have much new information to provide other than to say that the North American Aerospace Defense Command continues to monitor it closely. While we won’t get into specifics in regards to the exact location, I can tell you that the balloon continues to move eastward and is currently over the center of the continental United States. Again, we currently assess that the balloon does not present a military or physical threat to people on the ground at this time and will continue to monitor and review options.

Finally, Secretary Austin will host a bilateral meeting today here in the Pentagon with Australian Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Defense, Richard Marles. The secretary looks forward to discussing bilateral defense cooperation and our mutual security efforts within the Indo-Pacific region and beyond. A full readout of the engagement will post later today to defense.gov. And with that we’ll go ahead and move to your questions.

We’ll start with AP, Tara Copp.

Speaker 1 (04:18):

Hi Pat, thank you for doing this. China has said this is just a weather balloon that has veered off course. Why is the Pentagon convinced that this is a surveillance balloon? And then, can you give us a little bit more on the status of the balloon? You said it’s in the Central US. What state? Do you have any guidance for people as they see this balloon or they’re trying to photograph it or maybe try and interfere with it?

General Pat Ryder (04:41):

Sure. Thanks, Tara. First of all, we are aware of the PRC’s statement. However, the fact is we know that it’s a surveillance balloon and I’m not going to be able to be more specific than that. We do know that the balloon has violated US Airspace and International Law, which is unacceptable. And so, we’ve conveyed this directly to the PRC at multiple levels. And in terms of specific locations, I’m not going to be able to go into specific locations again, other than to say it’s moving eastward at this time.

Yeah, you had a follow-up?

Speaker 1 (05:15):

Well, just a quick follow up on, as people start to see the balloon, do you have any guidance for should they try not to interfere or not photograph?

General Pat Ryder (05:24):

The balloon is currently assessed to be at about 60,000 feet. So, again, well above the range of civilian air traffic or where civilian air traffic would normally fly, certainly aware that there are civilian owned commercial cameras that could spot this balloon. In terms of guidance to folks, again, this is something that NORAD is closely monitoring. We do assess at this time that it’s not pose a physical threat, as I mentioned to people on the ground. So, we’ll just leave it at that.


Speaker 2 (06:01):

General Ryder, who is controlling this balloon right now?

General Pat Ryder (06:06):

Again, we know that this is a Chinese balloon, but beyond that, I’m not going to have specifics.

Speaker 2 (06:11):

You say that it’s moving eastward and it’s over the continental US, it’s not over Montana anymore. Is the Chinese government controlling the movement of the balloon or is it just floating with airstreams?

General Pat Ryder (06:23):

Thanks, Jennifer. I’m not going to go into any specific intelligence that we may have. Again, we know this is a Chinese balloon and that it has the ability to maneuver, but I’ll just leave it at that.

Speaker 2 (06:36):

And once it’s over a body of water, will you shoot it down?

General Pat Ryder (06:41):

Again, right now we’re monitoring the situation closely, reviewing options, but beyond that, I’m not going to have any additional information.

Let me go to Tony.

Speaker 3 (06:49):

One quickie on the balloon. Can you confirm the photos that are out there, that this is not the man and the moon and that is the actual balloon?

General Pat Ryder (06:59):

Thanks, Tony. Certainly aware of photos being posted online, I’m not going to get into the business of confirming whether or not those are, where those photos come from. Again, I can tell you that the US government, NORAD is monitoring this closely and we will continue to review options.

Speaker 3 (07:16):

How close was the president to ordering a shootdown of the balloon?

General Pat Ryder (07:21):

Yeah. Again, I’m not going to get into internal discussions within the White House. Again, right now we assess that there is no physical threat or military threat to people on the ground. So, we’re continuing to monitor and we’ll just leave it at that. Thank you.

Let me go to Janie, and then we’ll go to Rio.

Janne (07:40):

Thanks, general. Welcome to home. I have two questions.

Come on?

Okay. In response to Secretary Austin’s recent remarks that more US’s strategic assets will come to the South Korea. North Korea warned of

Janne (08:00):

… stronger provocations in the near future. What is your comment on this?

General Pat Ryder (08:07):

Well, it’s certainly not surprising given North Korea’s track record of making bellicose statements. Again, what we’re focused on is on preserving peace, security and stability in the Indo-Pacific region.

And so Secretary Austin’s visit was an opportunity to again, reaffirm our strong and close alliance with the Republic of Korea. And so that will remain our focus is on working with South Korea and other nations in the region to deter aggression and ensure a free and open Indo-Pacific.

Janne (08:38):

One more. South Korea has announced that it will test a high-powered monster ballistic missile with nuclear warhead level. This is defense against the North Korea’s nuclear warhead. How do you agree this?

General Pat Ryder (09:02):

I’m sorry, Janne, I missed the first part of your question. Can you repeat that?

Janne (09:05):

South Korea has announced that it will test a high-powered monster ballistic missile with nuclear warhead levels. This is the case against the North Korea’s-

General Pat Ryder (09:21):

I don’t have anything on that. I’d refer you to government of South Korea. Thank you. Let me go to Ryo and then I’ll come back over here.

Ryo (09:27):

Oh, okay. Thank you very much. Two questions on the Chinese balloon. So there is speculation that the balloon flew over Japanese airspace before reaching the continental US. Can you confirm that?

General Pat Ryder (09:42):

I’ve seen those press reports. Again, as we acknowledged in our statement that we posted last night, we have seen this type of balloon activity elsewhere before. But again, I’m not going to get into intelligence and I’m not going to have any further information to provide.

Ryo (09:59):

Okay. Secondly, how will this incident affect the secretary’s future engagement with Chinese counterpart to maintain the open lines of communication?

General Pat Ryder (10:09):

I think we’ve been very clear that we’re always open to maintaining an open line of communication with the PRC. And in that regard, nothing has changed. Thank you. Let me go to Phil and then I’ll come over to Kassim.

Phil (10:21):

Is the position of the balloon classified?

General Pat Ryder (10:26):

Phil, right now what we’re not going to do is get into a hour by hour location of the balloon. Again, we’re monitoring it closely. As I mentioned right now, it’s over the center of the continental United States. That’s about as specific as I’m going to get.

Phil (10:40):

But I understand it might be inconvenient, but does the public not have a right to know if the balloon is over their state?

General Pat Ryder (10:44):

The public certainly has the ability to look up in the sky and see where the balloon is. Thank you. Kassim.

Kassim (10:51):

General, you said the balloon is maneuverable, so does that mean that it’s not drifting?

General Pat Ryder (10:58):

So the balloon is maneuverable. Clearly it’s violated US airspace. And again, we’ve communicated that fact to the PRC.

Kassim (11:09):

If possible, can you tell us if the balloon, when it entered the US airspace, has it changed its course in any way?

General Pat Ryder (11:18):

The balloon has changed its course, which is again why we’re monitoring it, but that’s about as specific as I can get. Thank you. Go to Matt.

Matt (11:26):

Thank you, sir. So you’ve said at this point the balloon doesn’t pose any risks to citizens. How is it that the US can assess that given that the balloon is at such an altitude without actually getting eyes on it up close and assessing the equipment that’s on board?

And secondly, are there any alternatives being considered to shooting it down? Is there any option to take this balloon out of the sky intact to maybe get a better look at that equipment?

General Pat Ryder (11:52):

Yeah. So again, this is a surveillance balloon operating at about 60,000 feet. Clearly we did a very close assessment in terms of what it’s doing. And as I mentioned, military commanders have assessed that there is no physical or military threat to people on the ground. And so in that regard, we’ll continue to monitor.

In terms of way ahead, we will continue to review options, but I’m not going to have anything further to provide on that. So thank you. Ma’am.

Speaker 4 (12:31):

Thank you, Pat. You said that this is violating our airspace, so why not take it down?

General Pat Ryder (12:39):

Yeah, so, clearly as we assess options. And considering the size of the payload on this, looking at the potential for debris and the impact on civilians on the ground or property damage – again, running through the various factors and looking at in terms of does it pose a potential risk to people while in the air, and right now, as I mentioned, we assess that it does not pose a risk to people on the ground as it currently is traversing the continental United States. And so out of an abundance of caution, cognizant of the potential impact to civilians on the ground from a debris field, right now, we’re going to continue to monitor and review options.

Speaker 4 (13:26):

And if I may, you mentioned that we’ve seen this kind of activity before. So why are we sharing this one and why last night if you were following it for a few days? Is this some sort of sign that we should take from China ahead of Blinken’s visit or from the activity that we had in the Philippines?

General Pat Ryder (13:41):

Yeah, so in terms of any hypotheticals about messaging from PRC, I’d refer you to them on that front. Again, I think what makes this different is the duration and the length of which it has been over US territory. But beyond that, I’m not going to be able to go into any more specifics. Mike.

Mike (14:06):

Thanks, Pat. Yesterday, a senior defense official said that the intelligence gathering capability of this balloon will be no better than any Chinese satellite in low earth orbit. If that’s the case, why would Beijing go through the trouble and expense to send this balloon on such a journey?

General Pat Ryder (14:26):

Yeah, I’d have to refer you back to the PRC on that.

Mike (14:29):

Any opinion why-

General Pat Ryder (14:30):

Again, look, we’re monitoring this. As I mentioned, it’s violated US airspace, it’s violated international law. We’ve communicated that back to the government of China. But again, I’d refer you back to China in terms of-

Mike (14:47):

But I assume that the Pentagon is trying to figure this out itself, why they’re bothering to do this if it’s offering no better intelligence gathering than from a satellite. Right?

General Pat Ryder (14:59):

Yeah. Again, that’s a statement, not a question.

Mike (15:02):

Okay. Put a question mark at the end of it then.

General Pat Ryder (15:05):

Yeah, again, I’m not going to have anything other to provide. So, ma’am. Oh, what… Yeah, go to her and then come back to Nancy here.

Speaker 5 (15:16):

I was wondering, is there any way that the Pentagon is able to gauge how long it could potentially loiter comparing to balloons that have been in the past? And how long do you anticipate that it could loiter?

General Pat Ryder (15:30):

Sure. Yeah. So, as I mentioned, we’ll continue to monitor it. Right now, we assess that it’ll probably be over the United States for a few days, but we’ll continue monitor, review our options and keep you updated as we can. Thank you. Okay, let me go to Nancy here.

Nancy (15:51):

Hi General. I want to go back to a couple things you said. You said several times that the US was reviewing its options. I’d like some clarity, is

Nancy (16:00):

Is the option of shooting down the balloon, particularly as it’s going over more populated areas, off the table? Is that still amongst the options that the US military is considering? And if so, under what conditions would it do so?

General Pat Ryder (16:13):

Thanks, Nancy. At this stage, what I can tell you is, again, we’re reviewing options. I’m not going to go into more specifics than that. And when and if there’s any updates to provide, we’ll let you know.

Nancy (16:24):

It’s been ruled out, shooting.

General Pat Ryder (16:25):

Again, we’re monitoring it and we’re reviewing options. Let’s leave it there.

Nancy (16:29):

And then a senior defense official yesterday said that similar incidents had happened under the previous administration and yet some of those administration officials have come forward and said they’re not familiar with it. Is there any way you could give us more details on when it’s happened? Whether it was over the continental US or over US territories? Is that something you could potentially take to provide to the public more details about the extent that these things happen?

General Pat Ryder (16:54):

What I would tell you right now is, that information is classified. I’m not able to provide it, other than I can confirm that there have been other incidents where balloons did come close to or cross over US territory.

Nancy (17:09):

And then I just want to reiterate something that Phil said earlier, that given that it’s not classified and the public can see it, I just ask that you take the question, that we have more specifics on where it is, given that there’s no clear security reason by your own estimation in terms of keeping that information from the public.

General Pat Ryder (17:26):

Sure. Absolutely. And again, we’re just not going to get into an hour by hour where the balloon is. So we will do our best to keep you and the public informed in general terms on where the balloon is and try to be helpful in that regard.

Nancy (17:43):

I respect that, but I think that if you’re not confirming photos, that we’re in a guessing game where people think it’s flying over. I just think some fidelity would be in everybody’s best interest.

General Pat Ryder (17:50):

Understood. And again, I think a key point here to make and to purposefully belabor the point, which is that again, as this balloon traverses the continental United States, we assess that it currently does not pose a physical or military risk to people on the ground. So we will continue to monitor, we’ll continue to review our options and provide information and updates as we’re able to. Jennifer.

Jennifer (18:13):

If it approaches Washington DC, will you shoot it down?

General Pat Ryder (18:16):

Again, Jennifer, we’re reviewing options, but I’m not going to get into hypotheticals or speculate on potential future actions. So let me go to the back of the room here and then I’ll come up to Jo.

Speaker 6 (18:26):

Thank you General. I thinking about the root of the balloon, was it impossible for the DOD to deal with the balloon before it reached to the airspace of the United States?

General Pat Ryder (18:39):

Yeah, we’ve been monitoring the balloon. We are aware, again, as I mentioned, it is a maneuverable craft and we continue to assess and make appropriate decisions, based on how we’re going to address what we perceive as a potential threat or not. The safety and security of the American people is paramount and so again, at this time we assess that it does not pose a physical threat to people on the ground. We’ll continue to monitor it and we’ll continue to review options. Thank you. Let me go ahead and go to Joe here and then we’ll come back to this side of the room.

Jo (19:17):

You said that this isn’t the first time we’ve seen a balloon fly over the continental US. In the past, has it flown over other sensitive areas such as military bases? You haven’t been very specific. It’s just the continental US?

General Pat Ryder (19:36):

Yeah, I appreciate it. I haven’t been very specific because that information’s classified and I’m just not going to be able to talk about it. So thank you. Edris.

Edris (19:45):

The Canadian Defense Ministry yesterday said they were tracking a second potential spy balloon. Are you tracking a second potential incident and when the balloon was coming… What I’m confused about is, when were their discussions to shoot down the balloon? Were there any discussions about shooting down the balloon when it was not over the United States when it was potentially over international waters or were the discussions only when it entered US airspace?

General Pat Ryder (20:09):

Thanks, Edris. On your first question, we are tracking one balloon. In regards to statements by Canada, I’d refer you back to them on that. In terms of the discussions about whether or not to shoot down this balloon, that was an option and so that was something that was taken into consideration. Again, because we assess that it currently it does not pose a physical or military risk to people on the ground. For now, we are continuing to monitor and review options. Thank you. I’ll go back to Ellie and then we’ll come up here.

Ellie (20:49):

Thank you. How big is the balloon that you’re tracking and have you guys picked up, is it leaving anything in its wake like sensors?

General Pat Ryder (21:00):

On your ladder question, I’m not going to get into intelligence. We do continue to monitor the balloon. We do know that it is a surveillance balloon. In terms of the size, I’m not able to get into the specifics, other than to say that it is big enough that, again, in reviewing our approach, we do recognize that any potential debris field would be significant and potentially cause civilian injuries or deaths or significant property damage. So again, this is part of the calculus in terms of our overall assessment. But again, we’ll continue to monitor it. We’ll continue to review our options and keep you updated as able. Let me go here and then over here.

Speaker 7 (21:44):

Thank you. Following up on the balloon question. During your conversation with the Chinese, have they indicated to you what is inside the balloon to prove the point that it’s a civilian or whether a monitoring thing? And does that assessment differs from your assessment of what is inside the balloon, what it’s trying to do, and secondly on the India question, this week India and US launched a initiative on critical emerging technologies. This has quite a bit of defense component in it. Can you give us some more details about it and how it’s going to strengthen or build up your relationship with India?

General Pat Ryder (22:18):

Sure. On your second question, I’ll have to take that because I just don’t have that information in front of me. On the first question. I appreciate it. As I mentioned, we have contacted the PRC. I’m not going to get into their reaction. I’d refer you to them for that. But we have clearly communicated that this balloon is violating US airspace and international law and that this is unacceptable. Thank you. Go over here and then go over here.

Speaker 8 (22:45):

Thank you, sir. Is the Pentagon looking at any possibility of maybe altering the course of the balloons? Take it to a location where they can shoot it down in a rural area?

General Pat Ryder (22:54):

Again, monitoring. We’re reviewing options, but I’m not going to go into any further specifics. Thank you. Sir.

Speaker 9 (23:02):

Considering that this is a surveillance balloon, as you said, does it have ability to collect very sensitive data given that it flies [inaudible 00:23:12] State of Montana?

General Pat Ryder (23:14):

Yeah, again, I’m not going to get into intelligence. As we mentioned in our statement last night, once the balloon was detected, we acted immediately to protect against the collection of sensitive information. And I’ll just leave it at that. Thank you. Phil.

Phil (23:31):

Is there any possibility that there’s any nuclear or radioactive material aboard the balloon, or is there anything that’s aboard the balloon that makes you believe that it could pose a risk if it was shot down?

General Pat Ryder (23:40):

Short answer is no. But again, right now we do not assess that the balloon in its current configuration at approximately 60,000, feet poses a physical or military threat to people on the ground. Thank you. Joe.

Joe (23:58):

Ukraine question.

Joe (24:00):

The small diameter bomb in the latest Ukraine aid package has the potential to target Crimea. Is that the intent behind providing it now?

General Pat Ryder (24:10):

So thanks for the question, Joe. So yes, as part of the USAI package, we will be providing ground launch small diameter bombs to Ukraine. This gives them a longer range capability, long range fires capability, that will enable them, again, to conduct operations in defense of their country and to take back their sovereign territory and Russian occupied areas.

When it comes to Ukrainian plans on operations, clearly that is their decision there and the lead for those, so I’m not going to talk about or speculate about potential future operations. But again, all along we’ve been working with them to provide them with capabilities that will enable them to be effective on the battlefield.

Joe (24:56):

And just as a follow up to that, can you talk specifically about this particular group of capabilities? How are they tailored to what’s happening in Ukraine now? For instance, there’s equipment that connects the various air defense systems. Just can you speak to why this specific package now?

General Pat Ryder (25:16):

Yeah, sure. Again, it’s important to look at this from a evolution standpoint in terms of adapting to the conditions on the ground. We’ve been focused on several key areas in the last few months to support Ukraine, specifically air defense capabilities, armor capabilities, long-range fires capabilities, and then combined with training in order to enable them to have the ability to conduct combined arms. Looking at things like further enhancing and enabling their integrated air defense, which I think everyone continues to watch with horror as Russia conducts aerial bombardment on civilian targets throughout Ukraine, so working with them in those areas, but also through the combined arms training, enabling them to be able to change the equation on the front lines, not only defend their territory, but take back sovereign territory. Thank you. Tony.

Speaker 10 (26:14):

Specify on that one, in the announcement, there’s a one line that says “Precision-guided rockets.” Is that the ground launched-

General Pat Ryder (26:21):

That is the ground launch small diameter bomb.

Speaker 10 (26:25):

Thank you.

General Pat Ryder (26:25):

Yep. Okay, Tara?

Tara (26:32):

Just going back to the Ukraine package, can you talk a little bit more about integrating the air defense systems, particularly all the systems that have been sent by different NATO partners and how do you integrate those with the systems Ukraine already has?

General Pat Ryder (26:45):

Yeah, so without going into operationally sensitive matters, broadly speaking, so a couple of things. First of all, it’s important to recognize that the Ukrainians already have done a fairly remarkable job of protecting, employing the air defense capabilities that they have. That said, we do recognize that as they take these new pieces and parts and integrate it into their system, continued support is required. We consult regularly with the Ukrainians and our international allies and partners in how they can best integrate those systems. That is ongoing work, but again, they’ve been doing a pretty remarkable job of intercepting Russian missiles and drones. Thank you. All right, time for just a couple more, Orin?

Orin (27:35):

Two questions on the balloon. First on maneuverability. Can it maneuver up and down as well as laterally, in other words, turn as well as change altitude? And in terms of tracking, how are you tracking this? Is it radar? Is it aircraft? And is it continuous tracking or is it more intermittent than that?

General Pat Ryder (27:50):

Yeah, thanks Orin. Beyond saying that we are continuously tracking the balloon, I’m not going to go into the specifics in terms of how we track other than to say that we have multiple means at our disposal to do that. In terms of more specifics on the balloon, again, I’m not going to get into intelligence again, other than it is maneuverable and I’ll just leave it at that. All right. Two more questions, Phil, and then Gus.

Phil (28:16):

Did the Chinese, you said it changed course. Did it change course following your disclosure of its presence over the United States? And secondly to the point about its capabilities, how is it powered? How is it moving? How is it maneuverable?

General Pat Ryder (28:36):

Yeah, thanks, Phil. Again, on your latter question, I’m not going to get into intelligence clearly it’s a balloon that has a payload underneath it. I’ll just leave it at that.

Phil (28:47):

[inaudible 00:28:49].

General Pat Ryder (28:49):

What’s that?

Phil (28:49):

What do you mean by payload?

General Pat Ryder (28:51):

It’s got a large payload underneath the surveillance component underneath the actual balloon piece of it. Just leave it at that. Then in terms of the maneuverability, again, all I can say right now is at this point, again, it’s moving eastward across the United States currently over about the central United States.

Phil (29:16):

Did it change course after your disclosure order change course …

General Pat Ryder (29:19):

I don’t have that information. Yep.

Speaker 11 (29:22):

Can you clarify payload? That sounds like munitions or something that would pose a threat to-

General Pat Ryder (29:27):

No, again. It is a surveillance balloon, so there is a surveillance capability underneath this large balloon. Look at a blimp, a blimp has a basket, right? There’s a basket underneath it in layman’s terms. Again, large enough to be concerning if there were a debris field. All right. Kasim? Last question.

Kasim (29:56):

Has there been any mil to mil communication with China with respect to the balloon?

General Pat Ryder (30:01):

Again, we’ve communicated at multiple levels, and I’ll just leave it at that. Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 12 (30:07):

Is it munitions?

General Pat Ryder (30:09):

It is a surveillance balloon.

Speaker 12 (30:10):


General Pat Ryder (30:11):

Again, we currently assessed it does not pose a physical or military risk to people on the ground.

Speaker 12 (30:17):

Okay. What could payload then? Is it an engine? I’m just trying-

General Pat Ryder (30:21):

Again, I can’t go into more details. Okay. Thank you very much everybody. Appreciate it.

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