Judge (05:44):
All right, we're back on the record. Bailiff informed me regarding two issues regarding two different jurors. Juror Number 6, his father passed away suddenly. The funeral is on Friday. State wish to say anything regarding that?
Jason William Smith (06:15):
What is the juror trying to... I understand his father passed away. Is he trying to say he can't serve today or do we need to take some time off Friday?
Judge (06:28):
He has not indicated one way or the other. Might be that we need to bring him in and inquire.
Jason William Smith (06:33):
Yes, sir. If that's the case that he needs some time off Friday, I believe that the way that our evidence is and our witnesses are coming, I believe that we'll have some time Friday where we can take off. We just need to know because we have one witness traveling from out of the area. So from Charlotte, she was going to come up Thursday night, come in Friday morning, but if we need to tell her later, then I think we can do that.
Judge (06:56):
I think the bailiff indicated that the funeral was going to be around 11:00 AM.
Jason William Smith (07:01):
Yes, sir.
Judge (07:03):
Mr. Britt, do you wish to say anything regarding that?
Luther Britt (07:05):
I think we need to speak with the juror.
Judge (07:08):
Okay. Second issue, Juror Number 3, she has wedding rehearsal for family in Charlotte Friday at 05:00 PM. So that might solve both issues.
Jason William Smith (07:25):
Yes, sir.
Judge (07:27):
All right. Let's have... Yes.
Jason William Smith (07:30):
Can I just sort of forecast? If you remember, we conferenced a matter with Your Honor about a-
Judge (07:36):
Out of state?
Jason William Smith (07:38):
... out of state witness that bringing in on Monday.
Judge (07:42):
Correct.
Jason William Smith (07:42):
So again, we may be able to adjust. We just need to know more.
Judge (07:53):
Your Charlotte witness, is that something where time-wise has to be done on Friday or could be done?
Jason William Smith (08:06):
Just a minute, Your Honor.
Judge (08:06):
Okay.
Jason William Smith (08:20):
We have to ask her, Judge. She said there were some conflicts the following week, but I don't know specifically.
Judge (08:26):
Or earlier this week to be able to squeeze her in tomorrow.
Jason William Smith (08:36):
We'll check on that, Judge.
Judge (08:37):
Okay. Just to check to see. We have a lot of options.
Jason William Smith (08:41):
Yes, sir.
Judge (08:45):
Let's go ahead and bring in Juror Number 6.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Sending Juror Number 6.
Judge (09:17):
All right. Let the record reflect that Juror Number 6 has entered the courtroom. Sir, bailiff indicated that your father has passed away. I'm sorry, my condolences to you. The question is, bailiff indicated also that funeral is on Friday, is that accurate?
Juror Number 6 (09:36):
Correct.
Judge (09:38):
Is it that you're asking for relief from your whole jury service given what has happened?
Juror Number 6 (09:48):
Just Friday.
Judge (09:49):
Just to be able to attend the funeral on Friday?
Juror Number 6 (09:52):
Right.
Judge (09:53):
Okay. And as far as being able to make arrangements and things like that with our schedule today and tomorrow being a regular schedule, will that interfere with anything that you need to do for the funeral arrangements?
Juror Number 6 (10:05):
No, everything's been taken care of, so small [inaudible 00:10:09] service.
Judge (10:10):
Okay. And what time was that on Friday?
Juror Number 6 (10:11):
[inaudible 00:10:12].
Judge (10:13):
And does it look... Oh, okay.
Juror Number 6 (10:14):
[inaudible 00:10:15].
Judge (10:17):
Okay. All right, perfect. Thank you, sir. I'll go ahead and excuse you from the courtroom while we discuss, okay? Thank you.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Juror Number 6 is coming back.
Judge (10:43):
All right. And let the record reflect that Juror Number 6 has exited the courtroom. So we'll just put a pin in that until you get me more information about your witness from Charlotte.
Jason William Smith (10:56):
I think right now, Judge, we may be able to accommodate, but we'll check for sure.
Judge (11:02):
Okay. And to be able to accommodate that particular juror, that may mean not having anything on Friday at all.
Jason William Smith (11:12):
I think that we've already forecasted that it would go into next week. We know it's going to go into next week with our out-of-state witness. We are prepared, Judge.
Judge (11:20):
Okay. Any issues with that, Mr. Britt?
Luther Britt (11:23):
No, sir.
Judge (11:42):
All right. So what we will do is I will not make a decision until you all tell me about your witness availability from Charlotte, and then as soon as we have that information, we can discuss further. Okay? Anything else from the state?
Jason William Smith (11:56):
Not on six, Judge. Do we need to address it with the other Juror Number 3 or is that...
Judge (12:00):
I mean, if we take all Friday off, that's going to solve Juror Number 3's problem who needs to be in Charlotte by Friday. So I don't think we need to address that with her.
Jason William Smith (12:11):
Yes, sir.
(12:19)
Judge, can we take a five-minute recess so we can discuss this so we can send our legal assistant out while we're doing testimony and stuff that she can be working on this?
Judge (12:27):
Okay.
Jason William Smith (12:28):
Thank you.
Judge (12:29):
Yeah, that's fine. We'll be in recess for five minutes.
Jason William Smith (12:30):
Thank you, Judge.
Judge (18:39):
[inaudible 00:12:32] five minutes. So we'll just hold off on that decision regarding what we're going to do on Friday until the state informs the court as to their witness availability. Is there anything that we need to discuss on behalf of the state?
Jason William Smith (18:53):
No, Your Honor. Not at this time.
Judge (18:55):
On behalf of the defense?
Luther Britt (18:56):
No, sir.
Judge (18:57):
All right. Let's bring our jury back in. Well, hold on. Before we bring our jury back in, Ms. Osier, if you can go ahead and retake your place here at the witness stand, please.
(19:25)
All right. Let's go ahead and bring our jury in.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Bringing the jury. Jury is here.
Judge (20:13):
Thank you, sir. Let the record reflect that the jury has reentered the courtroom. Allow you all a minute to get situated.
(20:29)
All right. Ms. Osier, you were placed under oath yesterday. You continue to remain under oath until the remainder of your testimony. Okay?
Julie Osier (20:35):
Yes, sir.
Judge (20:35):
All right. State, you may continue.
Jason William Smith (20:37):
Thank you, Your Honor. Ms. Osier, yesterday when we ended for the day, we were discussing your employment at the Carousel Center as a forensic interviewer and therapist. And I asked you if you conducted a forensic interview on Savannah Fields, and your indication was that you did conduct a forensic interview for Savannah Fields on three separate occasions. Is that correct?
Julie Osier (21:04):
Yes.
Jason William Smith (21:04):
The first one being November 15th of 2017?
Julie Osier (21:09):
Yes.
Jason William Smith (21:10):
The second one being January 24th of '18?
Julie Osier (21:15):
Correct.
Jason William Smith (21:16):
The third one being February 18th of 2022, correct?
Julie Osier (21:20):
Correct.
Jason William Smith (21:23):
State's Exhibit 85 was a child evaluation summary involving the February 18th, 2022 forensic interview of Savannah Fields. And in that, you indicated in your testimony yesterday that when the receptionist or the office personnel in the Carousel Center placed a sticker on that summary, it stated that the date of that forensic interview was February 18th of 2021, correct?
Julie Osier (21:55):
Correct.
Jason William Smith (21:55):
And you indicated yesterday that that sticker was incorrect, that in fact the interview was supposed to be documented as February 18th of 2022?
Julie Osier (22:05):
Correct.
Jason William Smith (22:07):
All right. Then you testified that all three forensic interviews were conducted at the Carousel Center and audio video recorded. Is that correct?
Julie Osier (22:18):
Yes, they were.
Jason William Smith (22:19):
And yesterday we admitted State's Exhibit 86, which was a CD of all three or DVD of all three of your interviews. Is that correct?
Julie Osier (22:28):
Yes.
Jason William Smith (22:28):
Judge, we entered them yesterday. We did not distinguish whether they were for substantive or illustrative purposes. I am re-approaching with State's Exhibit 86 and asking that they be entered into evidence for substantive purposes.
Judge (22:47):
Okay. Is there anything you wish to say regarding that, Mr. Britt?
Luther Britt (22:51):
Yes, sir. I would object to it being brought into substantive evidence.
Judge (22:57):
Let's go ahead and have that argument then outside the presence of the jury.
Luther Britt (23:00):
Savannah Fields is not a party.
Judge (23:04):
Can we have that argued outside the presence of the jury?
Luther Britt (23:07):
Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize.
Judge (23:07):
Yes. All right, members of the jury, go ahead and close up your notebooks. There's some issues of law that I need to rule on with regard to this aspect. Remember, don't discuss this case amongst yourselves. Do not discuss this case with anybody else. Do not have any contact with any of the parties, attorneys, or witnesses. Do not conduct your own investigation and do not post on any social media sites. We'll go ahead and excuse you for about five minutes.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Make sure your notebooks are closed. [inaudible 00:23:36].
Judge (24:11):
All right, Mr. Britt.
Luther Britt (24:13):
Your Honor, I apologize. I kind of blocked them out. Savannah Fields is not a party to this case in the sense that she is a victim where if she was a victim, then these statements probably would come in under medical diagnosis and treatment. But as I said, she is not a witness. She is only a witness in this case. The court had an opportunity to observe her on the stand. Much of what she said is very limited in terms of her testimony. So if this is admissible at all, I would argue to the court it's only admissible either to corroborate her courtroom testimony or to impeach her courtroom testimony.
Judge (24:59):
Now, the particular pieces of evidence have already been admitted. I think that we're just arguing as to whether it's substantive or otherwise.
Luther Britt (25:10):
Yes, sir.
Judge (25:11):
And so you're saying that it can't be substantive because she's just a witness?
Luther Britt (25:19):
Yes, sir. This becomes a collateral issue.
Judge (25:24):
Okay. Mr. Smith?
Jason William Smith (25:26):
Judge, may I approach with State v. Brown?
Judge (25:33):
You may.
Jason William Smith (25:35):
Judge, State v. Brown talks about forensic interviews and whether or not they're admissible under a hearsay exception. It does not distinguish whether or not a hearsay... And as you know, Judge, the hearsay rule doesn't distinguish between hearsay of witnesses or victims. And I'll take you, Judge, to... I mean, you can read the page 5. It talks about exceptions for medical diagnosis of treatment and whether or not that is a exception to the hearsay rule. And it is State v. Brown, and that cite is 296 N.C. App. 684. State v. Brown is normally spelled North Carolina Court of Appeals. And it talks about the admissibility of forensic interviews as substantive evidence for hearsay conduct or hearsay that is introduced through a forensic interview. And they say forensic interviews are for medical purposes.
(26:56)
You heard yesterday from Ms. Osier that when Savannah Fields came into the Carousel Center for a child medical examination, which is a medical exam plus a forensic interview, and that's what State v. Brown says. I'm asking that you allow it to come in while I believe that it is also corroborative of her courtroom testimony, but it should be allowed for substantive evidence also.
Judge (27:25):
Is there a significant difference for allowing it as corroborative versus substantive? I mean, there's different jury instruction at the end that I can read.
Jason William Smith (27:38):
Well, and when you read the corroboration impeachment jury instruction, it says that you can only take into account the statement for cooperative or impeachment purposes. When we talk about if we bring in a piece of evidence for substantive, we can sit there and argue to the jury, this is what she said, and you can take what she said as truth or not based upon what she said, not necessarily limited to corroboration on impeachment, albeit it is for cooperation, but it goes a step further for substantive and being able to argue that, Judge.
Judge (28:17):
Okay. Mr. Britt?
Luther Britt (28:20):
Your Honor, every one of these cases deals with the child as a victim, not as a witness. A particular notice, State v. Hemp, in which the Supreme Court held that the child's statements to a psychologist during the interview were not admissible hearsay under medical diagnosis and treatment exceptions because the statements were not reasonably pertinent to medical diagnosis or treatment. The purpose of these interviews was to try to get her to disclose what happened. Likewise, in State v. Waddell, the Supreme Court held the child sexual abuse victim statement to a psychologist were not admissible under medical diagnosis and treatment exception because the interview took place after the initial medical exam in a, quote, "trial-friendly room in a non-medical environment with a sense of leading questions." I noted that the record lacked any evidence there was a medical treatment motivation on the part of the child or the clinical psychologist or anyone else explained to the child the medical purpose of the interview.
(29:40)
And what we have here is two days following the initial incident, she was there being interviewed at the Carousel Clinic to determine, as the witness said yesterday, has she experienced or witnessed a child sexual assault, not on her, but on her sister. Then you have another interview that occurs in January of 2018, again in which the interview focuses on what Savannah saw, what Savannah heard without disclosure either in the first or the second. And then we have almost a three year gap between the second interview and the third. And then there comes this semi disclosure about Uncle Boo Boo being beside the sofa and then walking back to his room. And then that's what they are trying to get in as substantive evidence, not through the child, even though she did testify to that, but to boost support what Savannah had to say.
Judge (31:06):
Okay.
Luther Britt (31:07):
And there's no evidence that beyond that date, there was ever any further activity in terms of Savannah, either at Carousel Clinic or with another psychologist or a social worker.
Judge (31:21):
All right. Thank you. Mr. Smith, you wanted to say something?
Jason William Smith (31:24):
No, Your Honor.
Judge (31:25):
I do have a question for you, Mr. Smith.
Jason William Smith (31:27):
Yes, sir.
Judge (31:30):
If Savannah had not testified, would you then be able to get these videos into evidence otherwise?
Jason William Smith (31:40):
I believe so, Judge.
Judge (31:41):
Okay. Under what exception?
Jason William Smith (31:43):
The exception is medical. At least the first one under medical diagnosis, she did receive a child medical exam that day. Now she was brought in the 18th. And again, if we're talking about medical diagnosis, we're also looking at trauma, Judge. That is not just is there physical trauma to her? Was she sexually abused? You heard that the family wanted her to have sexual assault kit and all this. So she's taken on the day that her sister dies, 11/15. She goes for forensic interview and a CME. Then she comes back three, two months later. Two months later, Judge, does not have a CME on the second one, but does have a forensic interview on the second one. And then on the third one, Judge, she's 11. She did not have a CME on that one.
Judge (32:33):
Okay. Thank you. The instruction for substantive evidence is a photograph video, motion picture, x-ray, other photographic representation is introduced into evidence in this case. This evidence may be considered by you as evidence of facts. It illustrates or shows this being primarily a circumstantial evidence case. I think that part of that circumstantial evidence is the statement made by Savannah Fields. Given that that statement was made in 2022 during an interview, a forensic examination, I do find that it is substantive, therefore it will be labeled as such.
Jason William Smith (33:32):
Thank you.
Judge (33:32):
All right.
Luther Britt (33:32):
For the record, not by exception.
Judge (33:32):
Go ahead and note your exception, Mr. Britt. Let's go ahead and bring our jury back in.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Bringing the jury.
Mr. Bailiff (35:07):
Jury's seated, Your Honor.
Judge (35:08):
All right. Thank you, sir. Let the record reflect that the jury has reentered the courtroom. Members of the jury, State's Exhibit 86 will be admitted into evidence as substantive evidence. Mr. Smith, you may proceed.
Mr Smith (35:19):
Thank you. Permission to publish State's Exhibit 86.
Judge (35:22):
You may publish State's Exhibit 86. State's Exhibit 86, the video portion will be excluded from the broadcast. The audio may be heard via the broadcast.
Mr Smith (35:33):
Thank you, Judge. And in the course of publishing 86, there are three videos on there. I will announce on the record which one each is.
Judge (35:41):
Okay. Thank you.
Mr Smith (35:42):
The first video that we're going to publish, Judge, is Carousel interview of Savannah Fields on 11/15 of 2017. Ms. Osier, can you see the screen?
Ms. Osier (36:06):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (36:07):
And what are we looking at on this screen?
Ms. Osier (36:10):
This is the young child's interview room at the Carousel Center.
Mr Smith (36:14):
And on what date is this?
Ms. Osier (36:19):
November 15, 2017.
Mr Smith (36:21):
Okay.
Video: Ms. Osier (36:51):
[inaudible 00:36:32] do you want to sit in the blue chair? Get on the chair. [inaudible 00:36:51]. Oh my goodness. We should draw a picture of that.
Video: Savannah Fields (36:51):
My sister's at the doctor.
Video: Ms. Osier (36:51):
She is?
Video: Savannah Fields (36:51):
[inaudible 00:36:56] is that color blue?
Video: Ms. Osier (36:51):
What color is that?
Video: Savannah Fields (36:51):
Blue. I got [inaudible 00:37:06] picture of my hand.
Video: Ms. Osier (37:09):
Oh, that's a good idea. Should I talk about that hand too? [inaudible 00:37:12] anything we can make it into?
Video: Savannah Fields (37:09):
Oops, I'm making [inaudible 00:37:19] left finger.
Video: Ms. Osier (37:20):
That's okay. You know what? I have washable markers so we can wash our hands when we're done.
Video: Savannah Fields (37:46):
I'm going to draw a daddy finger.
Video: Ms. Osier (37:46):
You going to draw what?
Video: Savannah Fields (38:11):
And mommy is sad.
Video: Ms. Osier (38:12):
Yeah? So you got a daddy finger and a mommy finger?
Video: Savannah Fields (38:38):
[inaudible 00:38:39]
Video: Ms. Osier (38:38):
He is?
Video: Savannah Fields (38:38):
And sister and me.
Video: Ms. Osier (38:38):
Oh my goodness. How did you learn about all this?
Video: Savannah Fields (38:38):
And the baby is crying. She's sad.
Video: Ms. Osier (38:38):
She's sad. Who taught you how to do that?
Video: Savannah Fields (38:38):
My grandma.
Video: Ms. Osier (38:38):
Your grandma?
Video: Savannah Fields (38:38):
And the other side, I'm going to draw another hand.
Video: Ms. Osier (38:38):
You are? What do you like to do for fun, Savannah?
Video: Savannah Fields (38:38):
Huh?
Video: Ms. Osier (38:38):
What do you like to do for fun?
Video: Savannah Fields (38:39):
Go trick-or-treating.
Video: Ms. Osier (38:39):
Did you get to go trick-or-treating?
Video: Savannah Fields (38:39):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (38:39):
Tell me everything about when you got to go trick-or-treating.
Video: Savannah Fields (38:40):
I went to a scary house and I was crying. I didn't want to go.
Video: Ms. Osier (38:45):
You went to a scary house and you didn't want to go. Were you dressed up in a costume?
Video: Savannah Fields (38:49):
A cool cat, meow.
Video: Ms. Osier (38:54):
Cool cat, meow. Tell me about what your costume, what did it look like?
Video: Savannah Fields (38:59):
It has little ears and the shirt has a cat, that about it. And these things put up on my shoes.
Video: Ms. Osier (39:09):
They did? And it had a cat tail?
Video: Savannah Fields (39:09):
Yep.
Video: Ms. Osier (39:10):
What color was the cat tail?
Video: Savannah Fields (39:11):
Blue.
Video: Ms. Osier (39:12):
It was blue?
Video: Savannah Fields (39:12):
Blue.
Video: Ms. Osier (39:14):
And who did you go trick-or-treating with?
Video: Savannah Fields (39:16):
My grandma, my sister and my papa.
Video: Ms. Osier (39:18):
Your grandma, your sister and your papa. Oh my goodness. And you said you went to a scary house.
Video: Savannah Fields (39:26):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (39:26):
Well, tell me everything about the scary house.
Video: Savannah Fields (39:28):
I went in there. There was something creepy, like a scary spider, a skeleton, and I can't tell you about that one.
Video: Ms. Osier (39:46):
Why? There was a scary spider, a skeleton and something else?
Video: Savannah Fields (39:47):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (39:50):
And how did you feel when you were in the scary house?
Video: Savannah Fields (39:54):
Not happy.
Video: Ms. Osier (39:55):
Not happy. What was your grandma and your sister and your papa doing? What were they doing?
Video: Savannah Fields (40:07):
Waiting for me to come out.
Video: Ms. Osier (40:08):
Yeah? You were in there by yourself?
Video: Savannah Fields (40:10):
Yes.
Video: Ms. Osier (40:10):
You must be very frightened.
Video: Savannah Fields (40:10):
In my night.
Video: Ms. Osier (40:15):
And what about you? Did anybody else dress up?
Video: Savannah Fields (40:18):
Paitin was a butterfly. I was chasing her.
Video: Ms. Osier (40:20):
She was a butterfly and you were chasing her?
Video: Savannah Fields (40:23):
Uh-huh.
Video: Ms. Osier (40:24):
Oh my goodness. That sounds like it was a lot of fun. Tell me about Paitin's costume.
Video: Savannah Fields (40:30):
She was [inaudible 00:40:31]. She's flying with a thing in her room like this.
Video: Ms. Osier (40:36):
Oh my goodness. She was, huh?
Video: Savannah Fields (40:37):
She was running.
Video: Ms. Osier (40:37):
She was running. Now where did you guys go trick-or-treating?
Video: Savannah Fields (40:37):
Huh?
Video: Ms. Osier (40:44):
Where did you go trick-or-treating?
Video: Savannah Fields (40:45):
To a lot of houses.
Video: Ms. Osier (40:47):
Yeah? How did you get to the houses to go trick-or-treating?
Video: Savannah Fields (40:49):
We drove there.
Video: Ms. Osier (40:49):
You drove there.
Video: Savannah Fields (40:49):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (40:58):
Good. Well, that sounds like it was a lot of fun. What else do you like to do for fun?
Video: Savannah Fields (41:00):
Eat the candy and cook.
Video: Ms. Osier (41:00):
Oh, you didn't tell me anything about the candy you got? Tell me all about the candy.
Video: Savannah Fields (41:09):
First, we went to the fair and then we go home. I got to school in the morning and we eat a little candy and then we out of there.
Video: Ms. Osier (41:17):
And then you're out of there?
Video: Savannah Fields (41:18):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (41:18):
What kind of candy was your favorite?
Video: Savannah Fields (41:19):
The bubblegum.
Video: Ms. Osier (41:19):
The bubblegum. What did the bubblegum look like?
Video: Savannah Fields (41:19):
Pink.
Video: Ms. Osier (41:27):
Uh-huh. Did you write your whole name? Let me see. Savannah Fields. Very nice. That was a good job.
Video: Savannah Fields (41:35):
And the other side, I'm going to make it this color.
Video: Ms. Osier (41:41):
Okay. What color is that?
Video: Savannah Fields (41:42):
Brown.
Video: Ms. Osier (41:46):
Brown. Very good. Tell me about school.
Video: Savannah Fields (41:47):
Good.
Video: Ms. Osier (41:48):
Do you go to school?
Video: Savannah Fields (41:48):
Yeah.
Video: Ms. Osier (41:48):
What's the name of your school?
Video: Savannah Fields (41:51):
Pender County.
Video: Ms. Osier (41:52):
Pender County. And what grade are you in?
Video: Savannah Fields (41:54):
First.
Video: Ms. Osier (41:54):
First grade.
Video: Savannah Fields (41:56):
No, fifth.
Video: Ms. Osier (41:59):
Fifth? Okay. What's your teacher's name?
Video: Savannah Fields (42:06):
Ms. Newkirk and Ms. W.
Video: Ms. Osier (42:06):
Ms. Newkirk and Ms. W.
Video: Savannah Fields (42:06):
Ms. Walwark.
Video: Ms. Osier (42:06):
Ms. Wall, say it again for me.
Video: Savannah Fields (42:06):
Ms. Walwark.
Video: Ms. Osier (42:06):
Walwark?
Video: Savannah Fields (42:06):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (42:06):
Very good. Do you like school?
Video: Savannah Fields (42:17):
Yeah.
Video: Ms. Osier (42:17):
What do you like to do at school?
Video: Savannah Fields (42:23):
Play outside.
Video: Ms. Osier (42:24):
Oh, you like to play outside? What do you like to play outside?
Video: Savannah Fields (42:24):
On the slides, on trains. Did it and done.
Video: Ms. Osier (42:29):
You did? You want to do another one?
Video: Savannah Fields (42:30):
No, I'm good.
Video: Ms. Osier (42:30):
You don't want done anymore right now?
Video: Savannah Fields (42:30):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (42:31):
Okay. Well, I want to go over a few things about us talking, okay? I explained that my job is to help kids, right? And let's see, you're going to get a checkup when we're done, so it's important for me to know about things that happened so that we know how to make sure you're healthy. It sounds like you got a little bit of a cough. You have a cold or something.
Video: Savannah Fields (42:53):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (42:53):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (42:53):
[inaudible 00:42:56] can I go play again?
Video: Ms. Osier (42:58):
In a little while. We're going to talk and color a little bit more. The other things I want you to know about-
Video: Savannah Fields (43:03):
I got to write my ABCs.
Video: Ms. Osier (43:06):
Okay, that's a good idea. Pull hard. Pull hard. Pull. You got it. So the things I want you to-
Video: Savannah Fields (43:14):
Can you write my ABCs for me? Yeah, on that.
Video: Ms. Osier (43:14):
On this one?
Video: Savannah Fields (43:14):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (43:19):
Okay. And you want to try some or copy them?
Video: Savannah Fields (43:20):
Copy them.
Video: Ms. Osier (43:21):
Okay. So some of the things that I... It doesn't work very good.
Video: Savannah Fields (43:29):
Use the brown one.
Video: Ms. Osier (43:30):
Some of the things that I want you to know about while we're talking today is if I ask you a question and you don't understand the question, I want you to tell me and I'll ask it in a different way. Okay?
Video: Savannah Fields (43:41):
Okay.
Video: Ms. Osier (43:42):
So if I use a hard word, you just tell me and I'll ask it a different way. Are you ready? Let's practice. If I said, "Savannah, what is your gender?" What would you say?
Video: Savannah Fields (43:52):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (43:54):
Good job. Let me try asking it a different way. See if that'll help. Are you a boy or a girl?
Video: Savannah Fields (43:59):
A girl.
Video: Ms. Osier (44:00):
A girl. Good job. So if I use any words you don't understand, you just tell me, okay? The other thing I want you to know about us talking is if I ask you a question and you know the answer, I want you to tell me.
Video: Savannah Fields (44:10):
Okay.
Video: Ms. Osier (44:11):
Okay. But if you don't know the answer, that's okay. I don't want you to guess. Just say, "I don't know." Okay? Let's practice that. Savannah, what's your last name?
Video: Savannah Fields (44:24):
Fields.
Video: Ms. Osier (44:24):
Oh, you knew that answer. Good job. What if I said, "What's my last name?" What's that mean?
Video: Savannah Fields (44:32):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (44:33):
Good job not guessing. That's exactly what I want you to do if I ask you a question you don't know, okay? Let's see. The other one that I want you to know... Oh, I make mistakes sometimes and get things mixed up or wrong. If I do that, I want you to correct me. Okay? Make sure I got it right.
Video: Savannah Fields (44:49):
Yes.
Video: Ms. Osier (44:50):
All right. Let's practice that. If I was to say, let's say, Savannah, you're four years old, right?
Video: Savannah Fields (45:00):
No, I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (45:02):
How old are you?
Video: Savannah Fields (45:03):
Seven.
Video: Ms. Osier (45:05):
Seven. Oh, good. Good job correcting me. That's just what I want to say.
Video: Savannah Fields (45:07):
I'm dirty.
Video: Ms. Osier (45:09):
What? Oh, you're dirty.
Video: Savannah Fields (45:10):
You're dirty too.
Video: Ms. Osier (45:10):
I am too. We got marker on. We'll have to wash our hands when we're all done. All right. I'm going to draw another picture. Do you have a favorite color?
Video: Savannah Fields (45:21):
Huh?
Video: Ms. Osier (45:22):
Do you have a favorite color? What's your favorite color?
Video: Savannah Fields (45:22):
Pink, yellow, and orange.
Video: Ms. Osier (45:24):
Pink, yellow, and orange. Let's see.
Video: Savannah Fields (45:32):
That's it here. We have a pink.
Video: Ms. Osier (45:33):
Okay. Well, this orange. How about this one? I'm going to draw a picture.
Video: Savannah Fields (45:36):
Draw me in my house?
Video: Ms. Osier (45:38):
No, this is just a house. You're right. It is a house. And then I'm going to draw a boy and a girl that are playing. Can you tell which one is the boy? Yeah. Which one's the girl? Yeah, watch this. So the little boy and the little girl are playing. The little boy picks up a rock and he throws the rock.
Video: Savannah Fields (46:07):
Into the house.
Video: Ms. Osier (46:07):
And it hits the window. What happens to the window?
Video: Savannah Fields (46:11):
It breaks.
Video: Ms. Osier (46:12):
It does. Can you draw that window break for me? Oh my goodness. Look at that window break. Now watch what happens next, Savannah. The lady who lives in the house comes outside and she is mad. Why is she mad?
Video: Savannah Fields (46:29):
Because the boy hurt her window.
Video: Ms. Osier (46:34):
That's right. The boy hurt her window. So she says, "Little boy, what happened to my window?" And the little boy says, "The little girl threw the rock."
Video: Savannah Fields (46:43):
Oh.
Video: Ms. Osier (46:43):
Is he telling a true thing or a lie?
Video: Savannah Fields (46:45):
Yes, a lie.
Video: Ms. Osier (46:46):
He is telling a lie. What happens to that little boy for telling a lie?
Video: Savannah Fields (46:50):
He's going to get in time out.
Video: Ms. Osier (46:51):
He's going to get in time out. He gets in trouble, huh? So then the lady says, "Little girl, what happened to my window?" And the little girl says, "The boy threw the rock and did it." Is she telling a true thing or a lie?
Video: Savannah Fields (47:03):
A truth.
Video: Ms. Osier (47:04):
She is telling the truth and telling the truth is the right thing to do. So I have a very important question to ask you, Savannah. Will you promise to tell me only true things and things that really happened? Thank you. I promise to tell you only true things too, okay?
Video: Savannah Fields (47:20):
How about the boy throws the rock into the door, that would hurt.
Video: Ms. Osier (47:24):
Oh my goodness. That would mess up the door, wouldn't it?
Video: Savannah Fields (47:25):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (47:29):
Okay. Very good. The other thing I want you to know about us talking today is when you tell me about things, it helps me if you tell me about things from beginning to middle to end.
Video: Savannah Fields (47:41):
I am writing numbers.
Video: Ms. Osier (47:42):
You are writing your numbers, and include all the little details because I wasn't there to see what happened. So I want to practice. I want you to think about your morning this morning, okay? Think about everything that happened from the moment you woke up until you came here to the Carousel Center. And tell me about it from beginning to middle to end.
Video: Savannah Fields (48:04):
I was laying in my bed. My baby woke me up.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:07):
You were laying in your bed and the baby woke you up.
Video: Savannah Fields (48:09):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:09):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (48:09):
It's just the poor baby.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:09):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (48:09):
She was crying in the middle of the night.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:15):
She was. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (48:18):
So I give her her bottle and she went back to sleep. I went her back to sleep. She woke up again and she wants her bottle again and I put her paci in her mouth and she was fast asleep then.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:38):
All right. Now is that baby a real baby or a toy baby?
Video: Savannah Fields (48:39):
A toy baby.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:40):
A toy baby. Okay. And then tell me about what happened when you woke up for real today.
Video: Savannah Fields (48:46):
She was crying every time when I looked up.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:52):
Yeah.
Video: Savannah Fields (48:52):
I gave her a paci again, again. She didn't want it. I gave her a bottle today and she's back asleep.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:59):
Okay. So tell me about your morning.
Video: Savannah Fields (49:01):
Good.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:01):
What'd you do this morning?
Video: Savannah Fields (49:03):
Eat.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:06):
You eat? Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (49:06):
And I said, I want to get out of that house.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:08):
Get out of that house. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (49:09):
So get that baby [inaudible 00:49:14] away from me. The end.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:09):
Video: Savannah Fields (48:04):
I was laying in my bed. My baby woke me up.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:07):
You were laying in your bed and the baby woke you up.
Video: Savannah Fields (48:09):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:09):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (48:09):
It's just the poor baby.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:09):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (48:09):
She was crying in the middle of the night.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:15):
She was. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (48:18):
So I give her her bottle and she went back to sleep. I went her back to sleep. She woke up again and she wants her bottle again and I put her paci in her mouth and she was fast asleep then.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:38):
All right. Now is that baby a real baby or a toy baby?
Video: Savannah Fields (48:39):
A toy baby.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:40):
A toy baby. Okay. And then tell me about what happened when you woke up for real today.
Video: Savannah Fields (48:46):
She was crying every time when I looked up.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:52):
Yeah.
Video: Savannah Fields (48:52):
I gave her a paci again, again. She didn't want it. I gave her a bottle today and she's back asleep.
Video: Ms. Osier (48:59):
Okay. So tell me about your morning.
Video: Savannah Fields (49:01):
Good.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:01):
What'd you do this morning?
Video: Savannah Fields (49:03):
Eat.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:06):
You eat? Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (49:06):
And I said, I want to get out of that house.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:08):
Get out of that house. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (49:09):
So get that baby [inaudible 00:49:14] away from me. The end.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:09):
That was it?
Video: Savannah Fields (49:09):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:19):
Okay. Well, tell me about what was the first thing you did when you got out of bed this morning?
Video: Savannah Fields (49:29):
She woke up.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:29):
What did you do when you got out of bed?
Video: Savannah Fields (49:37):
I said, "Hello, somebody help me with this baby."
Video: Ms. Osier (49:41):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (49:42):
"And somebody help me lock her back to sleep."
Video: Ms. Osier (49:42):
Okay. And did somebody help you?
Video: Savannah Fields (49:43):
Yep.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:43):
Who?
Video: Savannah Fields (49:43):
My grandma.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:43):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (49:48):
Not my grandma, that Black lady.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:49):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (49:50):
I went to her house.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:51):
Okay. So not your grandma, you went to that Black lady's house?
Video: Savannah Fields (49:54):
Yep.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:54):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (49:56):
She was keeping me.
Video: Ms. Osier (49:57):
She was keeping you.
Video: Savannah Fields (49:57):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (50:00):
Okay. So what did that lady do?
Video: Savannah Fields (50:05):
She keep me.
Video: Ms. Osier (50:09):
Okay. And then you said that you ate this morning.
Video: Savannah Fields (50:11):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (50:12):
Tell me all about what you ate this morning.
Video: Savannah Fields (50:14):
Cereal.
Video: Ms. Osier (50:15):
Cereal. Tell me all about it, because I wasn't there to see it with my own eyes. What'd you do? What did you eat? What kind?
Video: Savannah Fields (50:23):
The Hunny B's.
Video: Ms. Osier (50:29):
The Hunny B's. Okay. And did somebody make the cereal for you.
Video: Savannah Fields (50:31):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (50:32):
Tell me about that part.
Video: Savannah Fields (50:33):
The Black lady did it.
Video: Ms. Osier (50:35):
She did? How did she do that?
Video: Savannah Fields (50:39):
I don't know. She maked it.
Video: Ms. Osier (50:41):
What did it look like?
Video: Savannah Fields (50:42):
It was round and crunchy.
Video: Ms. Osier (50:46):
Round and crunchy. Okay. And what color was the cereal?
Video: Savannah Fields (50:52):
White.
Video: Ms. Osier (50:53):
White? Okay. And then was there anything on the cereal?
Video: Savannah Fields (50:58):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (50:59):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (50:59):
Milk.
Video: Ms. Osier (51:01):
Oh, milk. Okay. Gotcha. So there was milk on the cereal. And where did you eat it at? Where were you when you made it?
Video: Savannah Fields (51:10):
At the table.
Video: Ms. Osier (51:10):
Oh, at the table. Was there anybody else there?
Video: Savannah Fields (51:10):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (51:13):
Okay. Where was the lady?
Video: Savannah Fields (51:15):
Getting ready to take me here.
Video: Ms. Osier (51:21):
Okay. She was getting ready. Okay. And then what did you do after you ate your cereal?
Video: Savannah Fields (51:23):
I got ready by myself.
Video: Ms. Osier (51:25):
Oh, you did? Tell me everything about getting ready by yourself.
Video: Savannah Fields (51:30):
I wash my hair.
Video: Ms. Osier (51:33):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (51:38):
Look, I'm making my numbers.
Video: Ms. Osier (51:40):
You're so good. So you washed. Tell me all about washing.
Video: Savannah Fields (51:44):
I didn't go in the bathtub.
Video: Ms. Osier (51:51):
You didn't go in the bathroom tub. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (51:51):
I only got the sink, and I washed my body with a rag.
Video: Ms. Osier (51:57):
Oh, you washed your body with a rag. Okay. And what was the next thing you did after you washed your body with the rag?
Video: Savannah Fields (52:04):
And I got ready and we went to McDonald's to get me a breakfast burrito.
Video: Ms. Osier (52:13):
You went to McDonald's and got you a breakfast burrito.
Video: Savannah Fields (52:15):
And then I got a soda.
Video: Ms. Osier (52:16):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (52:17):
And I was back to the house.
Video: Ms. Osier (52:19):
And then back to the house.
Video: Savannah Fields (52:19):
And that woman was fixing hair.
Video: Ms. Osier (52:24):
Who was fixing hair?
Video: Savannah Fields (52:27):
Ms. Newkirk.
Video: Ms. Osier (52:28):
Ms. Newkirk. Okay. Is that the lady that you were staying with?
Video: Savannah Fields (52:30):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (52:31):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (52:32):
She's not fat. She's like this.
Video: Ms. Osier (52:36):
Okay. Okay. So how did you get here to the Carousel Center today?
Video: Savannah Fields (52:41):
She brought me.
Video: Ms. Osier (52:43):
Okay. One of the ladies here?
Video: Savannah Fields (52:44):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (52:44):
Okay. And how did you get with them? Did they pick you up or did you meet them somewhere?
Video: Savannah Fields (52:48):
Meet them somewhere.
Video: Ms. Osier (52:50):
Where did you meet them?
Video: Savannah Fields (52:52):
At the doctor's.
Video: Ms. Osier (52:53):
At the doctor.
Video: Savannah Fields (52:54):
At the other doctor.
Video: Ms. Osier (52:56):
Okay. Okay. And then tell me about when they took you here. Tell me about that part.
Video: Savannah Fields (53:00):
I don't know. I'm done talking. I'm done talking.
Video: Ms. Osier (53:06):
Did you ride in a car or a van or something?
Video: Savannah Fields (53:08):
A car.
Video: Ms. Osier (53:08):
Okay. Very good. You did such a good job telling me all about your morning this morning.
Video: Savannah Fields (53:15):
And...
Video: Ms. Osier (53:21):
Look at all those numbers you write. Do you want to copy the letters?
Video: Savannah Fields (53:25):
No, I'm good.
Video: Ms. Osier (53:26):
You're good? Okay. Tell me, how do you feel about being here today?
Video: Savannah Fields (53:29):
Good.
Video: Ms. Osier (53:29):
Good? Okay. Do you have any worries?
Video: Savannah Fields (53:34):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (53:35):
No? Okay. Well, tell me why you're here today.
Video: Savannah Fields (53:42):
I'm at the doctor. Done.
Video: Ms. Osier (53:42):
Yeah. Look at all that.
Video: Savannah Fields (53:42):
I don't want to do that with that thing no more.
Video: Ms. Osier (53:43):
right there.
Video: Savannah Fields (53:43):
I'm not doing no more.
Video: Ms. Osier (53:43):
You're done drawing?
Video: Savannah Fields (53:43):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (53:56):
You told me earlier that your sister was at the doctor. Is that right? Tell me.
Video: Savannah Fields (54:00):
I don't want to tell anybody. It's going to make me sad.
Video: Ms. Osier (54:01):
Oh, it makes you sad?
Video: Savannah Fields (54:05):
And everybody.
Video: Ms. Osier (54:08):
It's okay. You know what? I talk to kids about sad things. It's okay. Okay? Let's get us some Play-Doh. Do you like Play-Doh?
Video: Savannah Fields (54:14):
Yeah.
Video: Ms. Osier (54:14):
All right. I'm going to get us some Play-Doh and then we'll come back in here and you can tell me about your sister, right? [inaudible 00:54:25] three colors.
Video: Savannah Fields (54:24):
Three.
Video: Ms. Osier (54:24):
Three [inaudible 00:54:46]. I know. I can't wait to see. Come on.
Video: Savannah Fields (54:24):
Can I make this doh?
Video: Ms. Osier (55:11):
Yeah, let's get these papers out of the way while we do some Play-Dohs and finish talking. Okay. I'll help you with that because it's really hard to open.
Video: Savannah Fields (55:17):
And then I'm going to make... What is these?
Video: Ms. Osier (55:19):
I don't know. You might have to press it on Play-Doh and see what it is.
Video: Savannah Fields (55:21):
Oh, it's a monkey.
Video: Ms. Osier (55:21):
It's a monkey?
Video: Savannah Fields (55:21):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (55:25):
That's like a blanket that you picked out, huh? So you said that it makes you sad.
Video: Savannah Fields (55:30):
I don't want to tell anybody now.
Video: Ms. Osier (55:35):
Savannah, it's real important for me to understand what happened. Okay?
Video: Savannah Fields (55:37):
Her eyes was in her head.
Video: Ms. Osier (55:41):
Her eyes was in her head?
Video: Savannah Fields (55:42):
And we went to the doctor.
Video: Ms. Osier (55:44):
Yeah, you went to the doctor.
Video: Savannah Fields (55:45):
And I went to Granny Hunts.
Video: Ms. Osier (55:48):
And then you went to Granny Hunts.
Video: Savannah Fields (55:49):
And somebody take me to this girl's house.
Video: Ms. Osier (55:52):
And then somebody took you to this other lady's house?
Video: Savannah Fields (55:53):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (55:57):
Okay. So tell me who lived in your house where you lived with your sister?
Video: Savannah Fields (56:00):
My nana, my papa, and my uncle Boo Boo.
Video: Ms. Osier (56:00):
Nana, Papa, Uncle Boo Boo.
Video: Savannah Fields (56:00):
And Paitin and me.
Video: Ms. Osier (56:00):
And Paitin.
Video: Savannah Fields (56:14):
Do you want a name?
Video: Ms. Osier (56:14):
Help me. S...
Video: Savannah Fields (56:14):
S-A-
Video: Ms. Osier (56:14):
Okay. And then V.
Video: Savannah Fields (56:18):
Mm-hmm. A-A and N-N- A-H.
Video: Ms. Osier (56:33):
Very good. So you, Paitin, Uncle Boo Boo and Nana and Papa.
Video: Savannah Fields (56:44):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (56:45):
Okay. Can you get it out? Okay. Where did everyone sleep?
Video: Savannah Fields (56:46):
I was sleeping in the living room with my sister.
Video: Ms. Osier (56:51):
You were sleeping in the living room with your sister. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (56:54):
Uncle Boo Boo was in his room.
Video: Ms. Osier (56:54):
Uncle Boo Boo was in his room.
Video: Savannah Fields (56:54):
And Nana and Papa... Do you have a roller in here?
Video: Ms. Osier (57:08):
Did you know what? [inaudible 00:57:07] So where were Nana and Papa?
Video: Savannah Fields (57:10):
In the room.
Video: Ms. Osier (57:12):
In a room. Did they have their own room or did they share a room or what?
Video: Savannah Fields (57:16):
They had their own room.
Video: Ms. Osier (57:17):
So they had their own room.
Video: Savannah Fields (57:19):
They were sleeping together.
Video: Ms. Osier (57:20):
They were sleeping together. Uncle Boo Boo was in his room?
Video: Savannah Fields (57:22):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (57:23):
And you and Paitin were on the couch?
Video: Savannah Fields (57:24):
Yes.
Video: Ms. Osier (57:27):
Okay. What happened when you got... Tell me about going to bed that night.
Video: Savannah Fields (57:30):
I was asleep.
Video: Ms. Osier (57:42):
What were you doing right before you went to sleep?
Video: Savannah Fields (57:42):
Watching TV.
Video: Ms. Osier (57:43):
You were? Okay. Tell me about watching TV.
Video: Savannah Fields (57:43):
I can't.
Video: Ms. Osier (57:43):
Do you remember what you were watching?
Video: Savannah Fields (57:43):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (57:43):
What was it?
Video: Savannah Fields (57:47):
It was Austin and Ally.
Video: Ms. Osier (57:48):
Austin and Ally. So you were watching Austin and Allie, and where was Paitin?
Video: Savannah Fields (57:53):
On the couch.
Video: Ms. Osier (57:54):
On the couch?
Video: Savannah Fields (57:54):
With me.
Video: Ms. Osier (57:55):
With you. Okay. And you said Nana and Papa were sleeping together?
Video: Savannah Fields (58:00):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (58:01):
And where was Uncle Boo Boo?
Video: Savannah Fields (58:02):
He's your cookie.
Video: Ms. Osier (58:03):
Cookie.
Video: Savannah Fields (58:04):
I need to cut it in half.
Video: Ms. Osier (58:07):
Oh, you cut the monkey's feet off.
Video: Savannah Fields (58:09):
So you can eat it.
Video: Ms. Osier (58:10):
Okay. You did a good job cutting out little pieces. And you said Uncle Boo Boo was in his room?
Video: Savannah Fields (58:21):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (58:23):
Okay. And can you tell me what it looked like on the couch? What's that room look like? Because I've never seen it from the couches.
Video: Savannah Fields (58:32):
It was together, and it was a comfortable couch. We were sleeping. Paitin was down in here. I was down this end.
Video: Ms. Osier (58:45):
Okay. Show me how you were sleeping.
Video: Savannah Fields (58:59):
I had two pillows. I was laying like this, and she was like this.
Video: Ms. Osier (59:08):
And she was like that. Okay. All right.
Video: Savannah Fields (59:08):
[inaudible 00:59:09] cookie?
Video: Ms. Osier (59:08):
Huh?
Video: Savannah Fields (59:08):
[inaudible 00:59:09] with a cookie.
Video: Ms. Osier (59:08):
Oh, okay. With that.
Video: Savannah Fields (59:08):
Where's the cutter?
Video: Ms. Osier (59:16):
Right here. And who put you to bed that night?
Video: Savannah Fields (59:19):
My nana.
Video: Ms. Osier (59:21):
Nana. Tell me about when Nana put you guys to bed.
Video: Savannah Fields (59:24):
Paitin was having a seizure. It's a seizure.
Video: Ms. Osier (59:27):
She was having a seizure.
Video: Savannah Fields (59:30):
And we went to another doctor and another doctor.
Video: Ms. Osier (59:36):
Okay. So you said you and Paitin before that were watching Austin and Ally.
Video: Savannah Fields (59:40):
Well, Paitin was asleep.
Video: Ms. Osier (59:41):
Oh, she was asleep. Good job correcting me. I'm glad you remembered to do that when I messed things up. So Paitin was asleep. What'd she look like when she was sleeping?
Video: Savannah Fields (59:51):
She was purple.
Video: Ms. Osier (59:53):
But when you were watching Austin and Ally, what did she look like?
Video: Savannah Fields (59:59):
Her back was hot and her belly was cold.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:00:05):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:00:05):
And I go to my Nana's room and I said, "Nana, Paitin's having a seizure." And Papa said, "Go back to bed."
Video: Ms. Osier (01:00:12):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:00:18):
Nana come in here to check on me, I suppose to not watch TV.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:00:20):
Yeah.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:00:22):
She says, "Dale, come on." And he was out the door, boom.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:00:27):
Okay. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:00:32):
That's it.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:00:33):
Okay. What was Uncle Boo Boo doing?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:00:35):
He was sleeping.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:00:36):
He was sleeping. Okay. What kind of clothes did you have on when you went to bed that night? Who'd you sleep in?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:00:45):
My night clothes.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:00:46):
Tell me about your night clothes.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:00:46):
They had scary stuff.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:00:48):
What did they look like?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:00:50):
Monster hide.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:00:51):
They were monster hide. Okay. And was it a nightgown or was it a shirt and pants?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:00:55):
Shirts and pants.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:00:56):
Shirts and pants. Okay. And then did you have on any underwear underneath?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:01:01):
Yeah.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:01:01):
Okay. And what about socks or slippers? Did you have anything like that on?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:01:04):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:01:05):
Okay. Did you have any blankets or pillows?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:01:13):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:01:13):
Tell me about them.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:01:13):
Mine was a monkey.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:01:13):
A Monkey? Uh-huh.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:01:15):
That's it. I don't want to talk anymore.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:01:16):
Okay. What about Paitin? What was Paitin sleeping in?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:01:23):
A monkey too.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:01:25):
A monkey too? What was a monkey?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:01:25):
It was black and mine was purple.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:01:30):
Okay. And was that a blanket or a pillow or something?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:01:32):
A blanket.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:01:32):
A blanket. Okay. And what about, did Paitin have night clothes on?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:01:37):
Yeah.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:01:37):
What kind of night clothes did she have on?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:01:41):
Zombie.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:01:45):
Zombie?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:01:46):
Mm-hmm. I'm scared of that.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:01:46):
Yeah.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:01:46):
And she had zombie clothes on.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:01:48):
And what did her zombie clothes look like when she went to sleep?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:01:52):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:01:52):
You don't know. Okay. Do you guys usually do baths or showers or what?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:01:59):
Baths.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:02:08):
Baths. Who helps you with baths?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:02:08):
My grandma.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:02:08):
Your grandma. Do you and Paitin take baths together?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:02:09):
No. Now it's time.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:02:13):
You got to cut the purple one. Cut them all up. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:02:13):
Did it.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:02:28):
The day before Paitin turned purple and had the seizure, what did you guys do the day before?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:02:36):
Papa and Boo Boo went out and me and Nana got in a car and leave.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:02:42):
Where'd you go? Where'd you and Nana go?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:02:42):
To the doctor. I was screaming at her. She won't be quiet.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:02:52):
Why did you go to the doctor?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:02:53):
To save Paitin.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:02:54):
Okay. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:02:54):
Eat your cookies.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:03:01):
Okay. I see all those cookies. Did you see anything happen to Paitin?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:03:05):
No. I felt [inaudible 01:03:08] sleep.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:03:09):
Oops. Do you remember what made you wake up when you saw her like that?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:03:16):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:03:23):
When you woke up and saw her like that, was it light out or was it dark out or what?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:03:26):
Dark out.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:03:30):
It was dark out. Okay. Was anybody else at the house?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:03:31):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:03:31):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:03:41):
I'm about to put the tail.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:03:42):
Oh my goodness. I talk to kids about lots of things, okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:03:48):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:03:51):
One of the things that I talk to kids about is rules to keep their bodies healthy and safe, okay?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:03:59):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:04:01):
What are some of the rules and things you do to keep your body healthy and safe?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:04:03):
Eat vegetables and candy.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:04:07):
Vegetables are very good for you. Candy, I don't know about, but vegetables are definitely good for your body, right? What kind of vegetables do you like to eat?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:04:20):
Carrots.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:04:24):
Carrots? Yeah.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:04:24):
And that's it.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:04:24):
That's it?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:04:24):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:04:25):
So you like carrots. What about, what's the rule for your teeth to keep your teeth healthy and safe?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:04:28):
We brushed it.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:04:29):
Brush your teeth. That's right. Very good.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:04:34):
I put blue toothpaste.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:04:34):
Blue toothpaste.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:04:34):
I mean, green toothpaste.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:04:36):
Oh, green toothpaste. Okay. Very good. What about in the car? What's the rule in the car to keep your body healthy and safe?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:04:43):
I don't know in car.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:04:47):
What do you put on in the car to be healthy and safe?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:04:49):
My jacket.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:04:52):
Your jacket? Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:04:52):
And here's another cookie.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:04:54):
Oh my goodness. You're cutting me up so many cookies. Thank you.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:04:56):
And that's it.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:04:56):
Almost.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:04:56):
Make that cookie for me.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:04:56):
I will.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:05:05):
Wait, wait. Is this one? A lobster.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:05:05):
A lobster one? Okay. I will do that.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:05:05):
And then the hot one with the yellow.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:05:15):
Okay. There are also rules about the private parts of your body, and it's okay to talk to me about those rules, okay? And those parts. Tell me about those.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:05:22):
Eat this.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:05:24):
Okay. What are the rules for your private parts?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:05:27):
Keep healthy and be safe.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:05:29):
Yep. Which parts of your body are private?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:05:34):
This, the belly.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:05:36):
The belly. Is there anything else that's private on your body?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:05:37):
Your head.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:05:38):
Your head.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:05:39):
Your back, your legs, your foot-
Video: Ms. Osier (01:05:44):
You have so many parts.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:05:44):
... and toes.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:05:44):
You know what?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:05:44):
Can I go back playing?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:05:45):
I need your help for a minute. Almost. We're almost done, [inaudible 01:05:51], okay?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:05:50):
Okay.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:05:50):
I got to make you a lobster cookie, but I need your help to tell me about these body parts this little girl's got.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:05:54):
[inaudible 01:05:54] got this hair. Circle her hair.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:05:58):
I'll write on there.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:00):
I'll do it. I'm good at that.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:01):
You want to circle her hair? Okay. And I'm going to just write down, you said that's hair. What's hair for?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:07):
Hair.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:11):
Tell me about hair. What's hair for?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:15):
Don't cut, huh?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:15):
Don't cut it off. And then you said these are eyes.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:17):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:18):
Right here?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:19):
I got that.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:20):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:20):
I [inaudible 01:06:22].
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:21):
Tell me what the eyes are for.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:25):
To keep you looking.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:26):
To keep you looking. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:26):
And her nose, keep her smelling.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:31):
That's a nose for smelling.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:33):
And her mouth for eating.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:41):
And that's a mouth. Hold on, I can't write that fast.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:41):
And this is her neck.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:42):
That's her neck. Okay. What do you call these that are underneath there?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:46):
Shirts.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:47):
What's underneath the shirt?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:48):
Boobies.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:49):
Boobies. Okay. What are boobies for?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:51):
To keep your body-
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:53):
To keep your body?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:54):
... safe.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:55):
Okay. What's this right here?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:06:56):
Her belly.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:06:58):
Her belly. Tell me what a belly's for.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:07:00):
To keep you eating.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:07:03):
For eating. Okay. And what's underneath there right there?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:07:06):
Pants.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:07:07):
What's underneath her pants?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:07:08):
Her butt.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:07:09):
Her butt?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:07:10):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:07:10):
Okay. And what does she use her butt for?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:07:13):
They use to potty.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:07:14):
Okay. Pee or poop?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:07:17):
Pee.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:07:17):
To go pee. Gotcha. Is it for anything else?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:07:20):
Arms can make your body strong.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:07:24):
They make your body strong. What are these right here?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:07:26):
Toes.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:07:27):
Toes. What are toes for?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:07:29):
To keep you walking.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:07:31):
For walking. Okay. And-
Video: Savannah Fields (01:07:35):
Her legs will keep her sitting down.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:07:39):
Legs for sitting down. Are they for anything else?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:07:41):
Mm-hmm. Her clothes.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:07:44):
What's this?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:07:45):
Her back.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:07:46):
Her back. What's the back for?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:07:48):
The keeping body [inaudible 01:07:51].
Video: Ms. Osier (01:07:51):
What's right here underneath her pants?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:07:52):
Her booty.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:07:56):
Her booty. What's her booty for?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:02):
To keep her warm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:08:03):
To keep her warm?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:03):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:08:03):
Okay. What else is the booty for?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:03):
To keep...
Video: Ms. Osier (01:08:00):
... for warm? Okay. What else is the booty for?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:02):
To keep you peeing.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:08:04):
To what?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:06):
To pee.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:08:06):
To pee?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:06):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:08:07):
What comes out of the backside?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:09):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:08:10):
Pee or poop?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:11):
Poop.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:08:11):
Okay. So, is the booty where you poop?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:14):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:08:15):
Okay. And what are these?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:17):
Foots.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:08:18):
Foots? What are foots for?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:22):
To keep you walking too.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:08:23):
To keep you walking too. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:23):
Is that it?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:08:25):
So, I want to explain something to you. So, the parts that are private are the parts here, look here, that are covered up by the shorts. So, the butt where you pee, and the booty where you poop, and the boobies. Those are the parts that are private. And the rules are that no one should try to do something to those parts. No one should try to mess with them and no one should want you to mess with theirs. Okay? Has somebody ever tried to break those private part rules?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:50):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:08:51):
Okay. What would you do if somebody tried to break those private part rules?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:56):
Not happy.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:08:57):
Not happy. Okay. What would you do?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:08:58):
My grandma would hurt them.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:09:02):
Your grandma would hurt them?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:09:02):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:09:02):
Okay. Has somebody else ever tried to break the private part rules?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:09:08):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:09:12):
Okay. Have you ever seen anybody else's private parts or they ever showed you their private parts?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:09:15):
No. My grandma won't let me.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:09:15):
Your grandma won't let you?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:09:15):
No. They have theirs.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:09:15):
Draw all those lines on here. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:09:15):
That hurt her.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:09:20):
Yeah. Did somebody do something to your sister, Peyton?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:09:34):
No. I don't want to talk about it anymore.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:09:40):
I know it's hard to talk about to you, but it's really important for me to understand, okay?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:09:49):
She was laying on the couch. Her whole face was purple.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:09:50):
What made that happen to her?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:09:52):
I think she was having seizures.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:09:55):
What do you think made her have a seizure?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:09:57):
And there's something on her neck. I think it was a line.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:10:01):
It was a line?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:10:01):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:10:01):
Okay. What did it look like?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:10:05):
It looked like this.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:10:08):
Yeah.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:10:08):
And it was a line all around her.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:10:14):
Okay. Was there something on her?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:10:15):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:10:17):
Okay. Did she have clothes on or a blanket on or what?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:10:24):
A blanket on.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:10:25):
She had a blanket?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:10:25):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:10:25):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:10:25):
Can I go play again?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:10:25):
I have a couple more... Well, let's take a break for a minute. How about that?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:10:26):
Yeah.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:10:27):
And then we'll come back. Have a last few questions and then we can go play and then we'll do your checkup.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:10:32):
Okay.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:10:32):
Okay? Do you want a snack?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:10:33):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:10:35):
Are you getting hungry?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:10:35):
Yeah.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:10:35):
Okay. Let's see if we can get you a snack.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:10:35):
Where's the snack at?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:10:42):
One moment. I'll take you to get a snack. We'll get a snack. Okay? [inaudible 01:10:42]
Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
I'm pausing it at 34:40. And fast-forward it to the time they come back to the room. I'm replaying it at 34:53.
Video: Speaker 4 (01:11:39):
Okay. Good job.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:11:39):
Where'd she go?
Video: Speaker 4 (01:11:39):
She will be right back, okay?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:11:39):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Speaker 4 (01:11:40):
I'll see you here in the waiting room.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:11:40):
Can she see it?
Video: Speaker 4 (01:11:53):
Yeah. There you go.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:11:53):
Orange.
Video: Speaker 4 (01:11:53):
I know.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:11:53):
I didn't wash my hands.
Video: Speaker 4 (01:11:53):
Oh, my goodness. Hold on.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:11:53):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Speaker 4 (01:13:00):
Okay. Put that away. Good job. Oh, no. Don't cut my hair. I like my hair. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Oh, no. Oh, no. I think I hear Ms. Julie coming back. You want to see?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:13:39):
I'm cutting hair.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:13:39):
What? Oh my goodness.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:13:39):
And hair is all over the floor.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:13:40):
Did her hair come out all over the floor?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:13:41):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:13:42):
Did you get a snack?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:13:42):
Yeah.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:13:43):
Where is it?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:13:43):
I ate it all.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:13:43):
You ate it already?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:13:43):
Uh-huh.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:13:48):
Oh my goodness. All right, let's sit down. I have a couple more questions. I need to make you your [inaudible 01:13:52].
Video: Savannah Fields (01:13:52):
Now I'll cut your hair.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:13:52):
You're going to cut my hair?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:13:52):
Uh-huh.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:13:59):
Let me see here. Oh my goodness.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:14:01):
And your hair's getting all on the floor.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:14:01):
Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:14:01):
Sorry.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:14:01):
That's okay. [inaudible 01:14:02].
Video: Savannah Fields (01:14:02):
It's stuck there.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:14:09):
Okay. All right. Let's not do any pretending, okay? No pretending in here. Tell me, you said that you and Peyton were asleep on a couch.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:14:19):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:14:19):
Can you draw the couch for me?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:14:19):
Wait, that's not a lobster. Oh, yeah. That is a lobster.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:14:19):
That's a lobster. Can you draw that couch for me?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:14:19):
I got to make it something difficult.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:14:33):
What color is this couch for real?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:14:33):
Green.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:14:35):
Green? Okay. You want to use the green? Here, I'll help. I'll help. These things are hard to draw. There you go.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:14:36):
Oops.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:14:55):
That's okay. Where's the TV?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:14:56):
Huh?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:14:57):
Where's the TV?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:14:57):
I'm not going to draw the TV.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:15:00):
I know, but just show me where it was. Over there? Okay. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:15:01):
It was about us.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:15:08):
And when you went to sleep, and were watching Austin & Ally, where were you?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:15:12):
But I did draw myself. She's a lot bigger than me.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:15:50):
She is bigger than you?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:15:52):
Mm-hmm. She is 100 years old. Wait, she's 10 years old.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:15:59):
Who is that?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:16:00):
My sister.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:16:01):
Peyton?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:16:08):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:16:08):
What's that?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:16:08):
The pillows.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:16:08):
Oh, the pillows. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:16:08):
He's sitting up like this.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:16:14):
Okay. And so when you went to sleep, when you were watching Austin & Ally, is this where you were?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:16:18):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:16:19):
And where was Peyton?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:16:21):
Right here.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:16:22):
Okay. And when you woke up and she was purple and having a seizure, where was she then?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:16:29):
Right here.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:16:29):
Okay. Was she in the same place or different?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:16:31):
Same place.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:16:35):
Okay. Okay. Okay. Tell me, after you guys all went to the doc, took her to the hospital and everything, tell me what's your nana and papa say about what happened?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:16:45):
Go to the doctor?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:16:47):
Uh-huh. What did they say about what happened?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:16:49):
I don't know. Wait, and I dropped my pencil. It's over there.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:16:58):
Okay. Come here, let's use the orange one. We can get on you. Here.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:16:59):
I could use one.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:17:08):
Okay. How did you know she had a seizure?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:17:11):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:17:13):
Okay. What about, you said something about Granny Rose. What's Granny Rose say about what happened?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:17:17):
She went to the doctor with us.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:17:19):
Yeah?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:17:19):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:17:20):
What's the doctor say?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:17:24):
Look, I'm going to pee.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:17:43):
No.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:17:46):
Mm-hmm. Wait. I can't get it off. I get it off. They said they put me on a thing now.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:17:46):
Their what?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:17:47):
And at the thing, the box and the thing.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:17:48):
And what's that mean?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:17:48):
And they was going with them.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:17:48):
With who?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:17:48):
My Nana.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:17:50):
And what were they putting on the box?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:17:59):
She was sleeping all the way there. The doctor said, "She's sleeping."
Video: Ms. Osier (01:18:06):
Okay. Okay. Did you get to see Peyton?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:18:07):
Mm-hmm. Off the 30.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:18:09):
Did you get to see her at the hospital?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:18:12):
No, they won't let us in.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:18:13):
They won't let y'all in. Yeah. Okay. What's Uncle Booboo say?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:18:19):
He was coming with us and he said, "I'm going to hurt somebody if they touch the daughter."
Video: Ms. Osier (01:18:30):
If they touch the daughter?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:18:32):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:18:32):
What daughter?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:18:32):
Peyton.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:18:32):
Peyton. Did somebody do something to Peyton?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:18:38):
Mm-mm. I was going to cut the cookie.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:18:42):
You want to cut the cookie? Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:18:42):
Same thing-
Video: Ms. Osier (01:18:46):
Does anything on your body hurt?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:18:48):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:18:48):
Okay. Well, Ms. Marybeck's going to do your checkup, okay?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:18:52):
Okay.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:18:54):
Make sure you're good and healthy. All right. What did you have for your snack?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:19:00):
My thumb was there.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:19:03):
I know. What was it? I didn't even see it.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:19:03):
Gummies.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:19:03):
Oh, you had gummies. That's why you ate them so fast, huh?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:19:03):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:19:10):
All right. Let's put our Play-Doh up and then we'll go see if Ms. Marybeck is ready for you to do your checkup, okay?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:19:15):
My checkup?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:19:18):
Yep.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:19:18):
I'm scared of checkups.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:19:20):
You are? Why are you scared of checkups? You know what? I forgot to tell you one thing. Guess what? No shots here.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:19:23):
Huh?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:19:24):
Okay? So that there's no ouchies.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:19:34):
Can we go wash our hands?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:19:34):
Yes, I think we should because we have marker on our hands, don't we?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:19:35):
Can we go put this back up first?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:19:40):
You are such a good helper. Yes, we can.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:19:42):
I can't pick it up.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:19:45):
Ooh, ooh. Let me help. There you go. All right. Let's put that up.
Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
I can play it to the end. Ms. Ozier, what observations did you make about Savannah on 11/15/2017?
Julie Ozier (01:20:10):
That she was engaged. She was able to follow the orientation portions of the protocol. She had some concerns and I believe it had been reported that there were some possible developmental delays. And I noted that she needed some additional scaffolding with her questions, which would be appropriate with a young age and some possible delays. She was avoidant. She said several times, "I don't want to talk about this. I don't like talking about this. It makes me sad." She changed the subject a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:20:45):
And then you performed a second January 24th, 18 forensic interview on her, is that correct?
Julie Ozier (01:20:56):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
And where was this performed at?
Julie Ozier (01:20:59):
At the Carousel Center.
Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
Okay. Permission to publish, Judge, at this time State's Exhibit 86 and the video entitled Room One, January 24th, 2018, Savannah Fields Carousel Interview.
Judge (01:21:14):
Thank you. You may publish. Likewise, the video portion will not be on the broadcast.
Speaker 2 (01:21:25):
Thank you, Judge. And Ms. Ozier, what are we looking at in this photo or in this video?
Julie Ozier (01:21:32):
That is the same interview room, the young child interview room at the Carousel Center.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:21:40):
... you confirm.
Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
I'm sorry. Back up. It was muted at the very beginning, Judge.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:21:40):
... you confirm.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:21:40):
Pick up.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:21:40):
I did.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:21:40):
You didn't pick up.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:21:51):
I told you I'd get som Play-Doh in for us to play with while we talk today. It's good to see you again. Do you remember my name? Ms. Julie. Oh, do you want some help?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:22:06):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:22:06):
I'll help you.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:22:06):
I got scissors.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:22:07):
Yeah.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:22:07):
Scissors.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:22:07):
There you go. All right.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:22:18):
Can I get a snack?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:22:21):
Oh, when we're done talking we'll get you a snack, okay?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:22:21):
Mm-hmm. Where's Ms. Allison?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:22:22):
Ms. Allison? I don't know. Ms. Alex? Is that who you're talking about? She's probably finishing up with somebody. You want to say, "Hi," to her when we're done talking today?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:22:33):
I saw her.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:22:35):
You saw her? Yeah. You've been coming back here to see Ms. Alex, haven't you?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:22:40):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:22:40):
Since we talked last time, huh? Good. Well, it's really good to see you again. I'm glad I get to talk to you again. You're getting all that pink Play-Doh out. Yeah. Did you get to play in the snow when we had snow a few weeks ago? You did? What did you do?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:22:55):
Jump in it.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:22:59):
You jumped in it? What kind of clothes were you wearing?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:23:04):
Night clothes.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:23:05):
Night clothes? When you jumped in the snow? Were you freezing?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:23:07):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:23:12):
No? I play in the snow. I like to wear warm boots and a heavy coat and gloves. Did you wear any of those?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:23:19):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:23:21):
You did? What did you wear?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:23:27):
Macaroni clothes.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:23:27):
What?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:23:27):
Macaroni.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:23:28):
I don't know what macaroni clothes mean. You have to explain that to me.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:23:29):
It's food.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:23:31):
It's food. Are you telling me real things or are you telling me stories?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:23:36):
Real thing.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:23:37):
Because did that really happen or is that pretend?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:23:38):
Pretend.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:23:40):
Okay. Do you remember last time we talked about some rules while we talk in this room?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:23:43):
Uh-huh.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:23:44):
And one of the rules is that we only talk about real things and things that really happened.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:23:51):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:23:51):
Do you remember that rule?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:23:52):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:23:53):
Okay. So just like last time, I'm going to ask you to keep that promise. Will you promise to tell me only true things and things that really happened-
Video: Savannah Fields (01:24:01):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:24:02):
... when we talk today?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:24:11):
A heart. A heart.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:24:11):
I see the heart. Very good. Do you remember we did a picture last time about that? I brought that picture. You remember that picture we did? I drew that picture. Do you remember what's happening in that picture? This little boy, what was this little boy doing?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:24:24):
Throwing a rock.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:24:24):
He threw the rock, right? What happened to the window?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:24:27):
Broke.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:24:28):
It broke. And then this lady came out and she asked the little boy what happened?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:24:33):
"Did you do that, little boy?"
Video: Ms. Osier (01:24:36):
And what did the little boy say?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:24:38):
"I didn't do that. She did that."
Video: Ms. Osier (01:24:40):
And was he telling a true thing or a lie?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:24:41):
A lie.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:24:45):
That's right. And so then the lady asked the little girl, what did she say?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:24:47):
"My brother did it."{
Video: Ms. Osier (01:24:50):
That's right. Was she telling a true thing or a lie?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:24:52):
A truth thing.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:24:54):
She was. Telling the truth is the right thing. So we made that promise again, right?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:24:59):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:00):
So you tell me only true things and I tell you only true things.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:02):
I made a heart.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:02):
That's a beautiful heart.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:02):
That's for you.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:02):
Thank you.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:02):
Put it on this right there.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:02):
You want to put it right there, right there?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:02):
Not yet.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:02):
Okay. Oh, not yet. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:02):
I got to finish mine.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:02):
Okay. All right. Do you remember some of the other rules we talked about? Let's see.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:02):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:17):
We talked about if I ask you a question and you don't understand, what are you supposed to say?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:23):
No and yes.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:25):
No and yes. If you don't understand a question, like if I said, "What is your ocular pigment?"
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:30):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:31):
What would you say?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:31):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:31):
Well, do you know what that word means?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:34):
It means don't do it.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:37):
Do you know what ocular pigment means? That's right. So if you don't understand a word, what do you say?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:42):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:43):
Look at me. You go, "I don't know what you mean."
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:45):
I just know.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:48):
Let's try that.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:48):
I don't know what you mean.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:48):
Perfect. What if I ask you a question and you know the answer?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:48):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:48):
Do you tell me?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:25:48):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:25:57):
Let's practice. If I was to say, " Savannah, how old are you?"
Video: Savannah Fields (01:26:03):
Seven.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:26:04):
Seven. You knew that answer. Very good.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:26:06):
I try to get the crocodile.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:26:08):
Here, let me show you a little trick here. Let's do it this way and now do it. And press it that way. So if I ask you a question and you don't know the answer though, I don't want you to guess. That's when you say, "I don't know." Okay?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:26:21):
A crocodile.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:26:25):
Let's practice that one. If I was to-
Video: Savannah Fields (01:26:27):
A crocodile.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:26:28):
A crocodile, a pink crocodile. If I was to say, "Savannah, do you know how old my dog is?" What would you say?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:26:39):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:26:39):
Perfect. Good job not guessing, kiddo. That's just what I want you to do. And then the other rule was that sometimes I make mistakes. And if I make a mistake, I want you to tell me and correct me and make sure I got it right. Okay?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:26:54):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:26:54):
If I was to say, let's see, "That looks like a purple bear," what would you say?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:27:00):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:27:02):
Does this look like a purple bear?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:27:03):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:27:03):
So what would you tell me?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:27:04):
Yes.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:27:05):
Look at me. Is this a purple bear?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:27:07):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:27:09):
Oh, what is it?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:27:10):
It's a pink crocodile.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:27:10):
A pink crocodile. Thank you for correcting me and making sure I got it right. Good job.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:27:17):
Good job.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:27:21):
Why, thank you. Should I press it in there a little bit? Look, maybe this. Show me this. Let's put her down. Now, what are you going to have? There we go. So last time you came and saw me, you told me that your sister was at the doctor's. Can I help you? Okay. Savannah, do you remember last time you told me that your sister was at the doctor's?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:28:02):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:28:03):
What happened to your sister?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:28:03):
Seizures. Seizures.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:28:10):
Oh, seizures? Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:28:12):
You don't know that.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:28:16):
Is your sister still at the doctor or is she someplace else?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:28:18):
Somewhere else.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:28:19):
Where is she now?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:28:21):
In the sky.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:28:22):
In the sky. Why is she in the sky?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:28:23):
In heaven.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:28:24):
She's in heaven? Why is she in heaven? I'll help you turn that around. Why is she in heaven?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:28:33):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:28:33):
Why is she in heaven?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:28:33):
Because she was sick.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:28:35):
Because she was sick. So what I found out from the grownups whose job it is to help kids and families and to figure out what happened to Peyton, the grownups figured out that somebody did something that hurt her, and that's why she died and went to heaven.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:28:57):
How do you know?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:28:58):
Because that's what the grownups figured out.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:29:00):
My grandma?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:29:02):
All the grownups that were trying to help your sister. They figured the doctor said that she wasn't sick, but that she went to heaven because somebody hurt her.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:29:12):
Nobody didn't hurt her.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:29:12):
Nobody didn't hurt her?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:29:12):
Can we go?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:29:13):
We can.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:29:13):
Play-Doh.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:29:21):
Let's put the Play-Doh crown on.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:29:21):
Uh-uh.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:29:26):
Uh-uh? So I wanted to talk some more about what happened when you saw your sister last. Do you remember when you saw your sister the last time?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:29:35):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:29:36):
What was she doing?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:29:36):
Now I have a crown.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:29:39):
I see your crown. What happened the last time you saw her?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:29:41):
I can't remember.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:29:45):
Try your best.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:29:50):
She was having a seizure.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:29:51):
She was having a seizure. What did that look like?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:29:52):
She was sick.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:29:54):
What could you see? What was she doing?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:30:03):
She was opening her eyes and closing them.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:30:05):
She was opening her eyes and closing them? Show me.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:30:07):
Me too.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:30:07):
Like that? Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:30:07):
Do you remember when I did that yesterday?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:30:12):
Yeah.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:30:12):
The other day.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:30:13):
You do? Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:30:15):
Next week.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:30:17):
What else? Was she doing anything else?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:30:18):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:30:20):
Okay. Was she moving?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:30:21):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:30:23):
Okay. Was she talking? Okay. Okay. Was there anything on her-
Video: Savannah Fields (01:30:31):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:30:31):
... when you saw her? Okay. I have a picture of your living room. Where were you when you saw her last time? Were you in the living room?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:30:45):
You was looking for it?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:30:45):
I am looking for it. When you saw her and she was opening her and closing her eyes, where was she?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:30:50):
On the couch with me.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:30:51):
On the couch with you. I have a picture of your couch at the house. Is this it?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:30:58):
It is.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:31:03):
Yeah, it is. Okay. And so show me where was your sister? Where was Peyton? She was over there. Okay. And you said she was opening her eyes and closing her eyes? Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:31:17):
I was over here.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:31:20):
You were over there.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:31:20):
Over here.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:31:21):
Oh, you were over there? Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:31:22):
How do you know you see my living room?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:31:25):
I had someone get me a picture of it. The people trying to figure out what happened to your sister took a picture.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:31:30):
That's a mess right here.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:31:31):
Yeah, that does look like a mess.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:31:31):
You didn't see my room.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:31:34):
I haven't seen your room. So make sure I got this right. You were over here.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:31:40):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:31:41):
Is that right?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:31:41):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:31:45):
Okay. And you said your sister was over here?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:31:46):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:31:46):
Okay. Where was your sister's head?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:31:48):
Right there.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:31:52):
I can't tell with the plate over. Show me with your finger. Right there. Where were her feet? Oh, I can't see again. Show me again. Oh, right there. So her head was right there and her feet were right there? Okay. And did she have a blanket on or clothes on or something else or what?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:32:09):
A blanket on.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:32:10):
Oh, she had a blanket on. What did the blanket look like? It was that blanket right there? Oh, okay. All right.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:32:17):
That's my table.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:32:19):
Where's your table?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:32:20):
Right there.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:32:21):
Right there? Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:32:21):
And my sister's table's over here.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:32:22):
All right.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:32:22):
I mean right there.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:32:26):
I gotcha. So when you were over here, where was your head when you first woke up?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:32:30):
Right there.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:32:33):
Right there? Where were your feet? Right down there. What made you wake up? Who woke you up?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:32:37):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:32:37):
You don't know? Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:32:48):
I just woke my own self up to watch TV.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:32:50):
You woke your own self up to watch TV. Where's your TV?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:32:53):
In front of the couch and this.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:32:58):
Okay. Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:32:58):
That's my shoes. That's my shoes.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:32:59):
That's your shoes, huh? Okay. So you woke up and you said you were watching TV. What were you watching on TV?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:33:10):
Take this off.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:33:11):
Do you remember what you were watching on TV?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:33:15):
Mm-hmm. Austin & Ally.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:33:17):
Austin & Ally. Okay. And what about the volume? Did you turn it up or did somebody turn it up or what?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:33:24):
It was turned down.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:33:26):
It was turned down? Do you remember what number it was on?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:33:28):
14.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:33:28):
14? Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:33:28):
I mean, 24.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:33:33):
24? Okay. How do you change the volume on your TV?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:33:41):
We turn it down and turn it up.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:33:43):
With what?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:33:43):
On the side, there's a down and up thing.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:33:49):
Okay. On the side, there's a down and up thing. Is it on the TV itself or is it on something else?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:33:53):
Something else.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:33:54):
What's it on?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:33:54):
It's on a chair.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:33:59):
It's on a chair. Some people turn their TV up on the TV. They press the buttons on the TV and some people turn their TV up with a remote control.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:34:09):
Huh?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:34:09):
Do you guys have a remote control?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:34:10):
Mm-mm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:34:11):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:34:14):
We do have a remote control.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:34:17):
What do you do with the remote control?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:34:20):
We break it.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:34:23):
Oh, you break it.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:34:23):
It won't break. What is that?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:34:25):
That's the camera. Remember? I always record it whenever I talk to kids so I don't have to write every single thing down. And I can remember what you tell me because it's real important because we're trying to understand what happened.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:34:39):
Eyes pickle.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:34:40):
Huh?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:34:40):
Is that a pickle?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:34:40):
A pickle?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:34:40):
Yeah.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:34:40):
I don't know. I don't know. So you said when you got up, you were watching Austin & Ally on TV, and it was on 14 or 24?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:34:56):
14.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:34:56):
Okay. And then-
Video: Savannah Fields (01:35:00):
I said 24.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:35:03):
Oh, 24. Okay. Okay. Did anybody change it to something else? Anyone turn it up or turn it down?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:35:08):
Mm-mm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:35:10):
Okay. And so when you woke up and you saw your sister's eyes opening and closing, and you said she had her blanket on, what's the very next thing you did?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:35:24):
I woke up. Do you see my dolls?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:35:31):
I haven't. What did you do when you woke up?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:35:32):
My dolls was right there and the other doll was right there and the other doll was right there.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:35:36):
What were they doing when you woke up?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:35:38):
Nothing.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:35:41):
Nothing? Okay. What did you do next after you woke up and you saw your sister over there with her eyes opening and closing?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:35:48):
I said, "Peyton."
Video: Ms. Osier (01:35:53):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:35:53):
Can we get a snack?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:35:53):
We'll get a snack in a few minutes, okay? So you said, "Peyton."
Video: Savannah Fields (01:35:55):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:35:55):
And what happened next?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:35:56):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:35:58):
Did she say anything back?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:35:59):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:35:59):
Okay. What did you think?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:36:02):
I didn't think.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:36:05):
Okay. And so what happened next? At that-
Video: Savannah Fields (01:36:09):
Here's the-
Video: Ms. Osier (01:36:10):
After you said, "Peyton."
Video: Savannah Fields (01:36:11):
I can't get down.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:36:11):
You need help?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:36:16):
I can get down.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:36:17):
You got it? Okay. So when you said, "Peyton," and she didn't say anything, what happened next?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:36:25):
Went to my grandma's room.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:36:26):
You went to your grandma's room. And so if you were right here, show me how you would get up and go to your grandma's room. Which way would you go?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:36:39):
This way.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:36:39):
Show me. You would go this way?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:36:39):
In that.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:36:39):
And then where?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:36:39):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:36:39):
Which way? I didn't see. Show me again. Right there?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:36:45):
In the kitchen, this way.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:36:46):
Oh, the kitchen's this way. And then which way was your grandma's room? That way? Okay. Did you go touch Peyton?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:36:54):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:36:54):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:36:54):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:36:57):
Did you look at her?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:36:57):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:36:59):
Okay. You told me last time that there was a line on her neck. Tell me about that.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:37:09):
My grandma told me.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:37:10):
Oh, your grandma told you?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:37:10):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:37:11):
Okay. Did you see anything on her neck?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:37:14):
Mm-mm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:37:14):
With your own eyes?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:37:14):
Mm-mm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:37:14):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:37:18):
Okay. So I'm about to cut this.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:37:18):
Oh my goodness. I see that. So you went and told your grandma.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:37:27):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:37:28):
What did you tell your grandma?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:37:32):
" Peyton's having seizures."
Video: Ms. Osier (01:37:34):
Did you know what a seizure was then?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:37:36):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:37:37):
Okay. What did you say?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:37:41):
"Come check on Peyton."
Video: Ms. Osier (01:37:42):
Okay. And what happened then?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:37:45):
She come.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:37:46):
Did she come right away?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:37:51):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:37:51):
Did your papa say anything when you went in there?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:37:54):
He told me to go back to bed.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:37:54):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:37:54):
And I didn't.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:37:54):
And you didn't or you did?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:38:01):
I didn't.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:38:02):
You didn't. What did you do?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:38:04):
Cut on the TV.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:38:05):
You cut on the TV? Okay. How did you cut the TV on?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:38:10):
From the top.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:38:12):
From the top? Okay. And was that when Austin & Ally was on or was it something else then?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:38:19):
Ally.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:38:19):
Austin & Ally?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:38:21):
How'd I move that?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:38:26):
I don't know. And so did you turn it up or turn it down?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:38:28):
Turn it down.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:38:31):
You did? Okay. And so what happened next? So you went and turned the TV on.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:38:33):
I have a red cheek. A pink cheek.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:38:39):
I see your pink cheek. So you turned the TV on and you went and told your grandma and your papa said, "Go back-
Video: Savannah Fields (01:38:51):
To bed.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:38:52):
... to bed." And you went in here and turned the TV on. What was Peyton doing then?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:38:57):
She stopped doing it.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:38:57):
What did she look like?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:39:03):
A pink garbage can.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:39:04):
A pink garbage can?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:39:04):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:39:05):
Are you telling me real things?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:39:07):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:39:07):
She looked like a pink garbage. What do you mean?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:39:07):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:39:12):
Okay. Okay. So what was the next thing that happened?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:39:15):
Nothing else happened.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:39:15):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:39:15):
That's it.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:39:20):
Did your grandma or papa wake up?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:39:22):
No, I just woke them up.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:39:25):
Okay. And what did they do when they woke up?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:39:27):
They told me to go back to bed and I say, "No."
Video: Ms. Osier (01:39:33):
And you said, "No." And then did somebody else see Peyton later?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:39:35):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:39:37):
Well, how did Peyton get to the doctor?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:39:39):
My grandma took.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:39:40):
Okay. Tell me about when your grandma saw her.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:39:44):
She didn't saw anything, seriously.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:39:47):
Okay. So-
Video: Savannah Fields (01:39:52):
Do you know how I'm putting this on my head-
Video: Ms. Osier (01:39:53):
I see.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:39:53):
... so I can put dots on there?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:39:58):
I see. So I'm a little bit confused.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:40:00):
Confused?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:40:02):
Yeah. So when you went and you told your grandma and your papa and pops said, "Go back to bed," you went back into the living room and turned the TV on.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:40:12):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:40:14):
And so what happened next?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:40:16):
I don't know what happened next.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:40:19):
Okay. What happened the next day when everybody woke up?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:40:24):
We took her to the doctor.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:40:25):
Okay.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:40:25):
All of us.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:40:28):
Okay. Who saw her next?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:40:30):
My grandma.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:40:32):
What did your grandma do when she saw her?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:40:34):
Yell, "My God."
Video: Ms. Osier (01:40:41):
She yelled, "Oh my God." Okay. And then what happened-
Video: Savannah Fields (01:40:50):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:40:50):
... after she yelled, "Oh my God," what'd she do?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:40:51):
"Ah."
Video: Ms. Osier (01:40:51):
I see now. What did she do after she yelled, "Oh my God"?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:40:51):
She call her.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:40:51):
Huh?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:40:51):
She call her.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:40:51):
I can't hear you.
Video: Savannah Fields (01:40:51):
She call her.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:40:51):
She called? Who did she call?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:40:51):
My grandpa.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:41:03):
Yeah. And what did he say?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:41:06):
I don't know. I didn't know what he say.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:41:09):
Okay. What were you doing when she called your grandpa?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:41:15):
I didn't do anything.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:41:18):
Okay. Okay. Was anybody else at home?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:41:19):
No. My Uncle.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:41:21):
Your uncle? What was your uncle doing?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:41:23):
Nothing.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:41:25):
Did you see him?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:41:26):
He was asleep.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:41:27):
He was asleep. Where was he sleeping?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:41:29):
At the back of the room.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:41:31):
Okay. The back of what room?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:41:36):
The back. In here when I was right here, this in his room, right there.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:41:43):
His room is right there?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:41:44):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:41:45):
Can you see it in this picture or is it outside of this picture?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:41:48):
Outside of this picture.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:41:51):
Okay. Okay. What happened when he woke up?
Video: Savannah Fields (01:41:53):
He didn't woke up.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:41:59):
Okay. Okay. You see that coffee? I do see that coffee. Who's coffee-
Audio: Savannah (01:42:00):
... you see that coffee?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:42:02):
I do see that coffee. Whose coffee is that?
Audio: Savannah (01:42:04):
My grandma's.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:42:04):
It is?
Audio: Savannah (01:42:04):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:42:08):
Who made-
Audio: Savannah (01:42:09):
She drank coffee.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:42:09):
Who made that coffee?
Audio: Savannah (01:42:10):
My grandma.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:42:10):
Your grandma?
Audio: Savannah (01:42:13):
She loves coffee.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:42:13):
She loves coffee? Did she make coffee that morning?
Audio: Savannah (01:42:15):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:42:16):
She did?
Audio: Savannah (01:42:17):
Mm-hmm. Ow, my leg is [inaudible 01:42:21]
Video: Ms. Osier (01:42:17):
Be careful. Be careful.
Audio: Savannah (01:42:17):
And that's [inaudible 01:42:22]
Video: Ms. Osier (01:42:22):
Okay. Did somebody tell you what to say?
Audio: Savannah (01:42:31):
Mm-mm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:42:31):
Did somebody tell you to keep something a secret about what happened?
Audio: Savannah (01:42:34):
Mm-mm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:42:35):
Did somebody want you to not say something or not tell about something? Okay. Okay.
Audio: Savannah (01:42:39):
Is this a heart.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:42:45):
What do you think?
Audio: Savannah (01:42:45):
It's a crocodile.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:42:45):
It's a crocodile? Okay.
Audio: Savannah (01:42:45):
I'm going to put the heart right here.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:04):
Before Paitin's eyes were going open and closed, before that happened, the night before, were you guys playing on the couch or were you guys doing something else?
Audio: Savannah (01:43:15):
We was playing.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:15):
You were playing? What were y'all guys playing?
Audio: Savannah (01:43:17):
Tag.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:17):
Tag? Yeah?
Audio: Savannah (01:43:17):
Not in the night.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:17):
Huh?
Audio: Savannah (01:43:17):
In the daytime.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:17):
Oh, in the daytime, not in the night.
Audio: Savannah (01:43:17):
Do you see that right there?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:26):
Yeah. What is that?
Audio: Savannah (01:43:27):
It's the window.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:27):
Oh, it's the window. Okay.
Audio: Savannah (01:43:27):
It's dirty.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:27):
Okay.
Audio: Savannah (01:43:27):
It's got some nasty thing.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:27):
What is that?
Audio: Savannah (01:43:27):
It's an orange.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:27):
An orange? Okay. Did-
Audio: Savannah (01:43:27):
And that's the food.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:40):
The food? Did somebody else come into the living room that night? Okay. Did somebody do something to you?
Audio: Savannah (01:43:49):
They might sneak.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:50):
They might sneak?
Audio: Savannah (01:43:50):
Into the rooms.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:50):
Okay.
Audio: Savannah (01:43:50):
I think they will sneak.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:54):
You think they will sneak? Who do you think will sneak?
Audio: Savannah (01:43:57):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:43:57):
You don't know? Okay. Did you see-
Audio: Savannah (01:44:02):
And I have a slide and a swing sets and monkey bars and my thinking cap's right here.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:44:16):
Okay. Where's your thinking cap?
Audio: Savannah (01:44:17):
In my ear.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:44:17):
Okay.
Audio: Savannah (01:44:21):
I want to... No, there's a seesaw too.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:44:23):
Okay.
Audio: Savannah (01:44:24):
That was my thing.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:44:24):
Did something-
Audio: Savannah (01:44:24):
No, the heart.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:44:29):
Savannah, did somebody do something to your sister?
Audio: Savannah (01:44:32):
I just saw anything. I wasn't fast asleep.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:44:33):
You didn't see anything. You were fast asleep. Did you hear anything?
Audio: Savannah (01:44:39):
Mm-mm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:44:42):
How did the TV get up loud?
Audio: Savannah (01:44:43):
Loud?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:44:46):
Mm-hmm. Who turned the TV up loud?
Audio: Savannah (01:44:48):
Nobody did.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:44:48):
Nobody did? Okay. All right, lady, let's go get you a snack and then we'll come back and we'll finish up, okay?
Audio: Savannah (01:45:03):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:45:03):
All right. Let's go see what we can find for snack today.
Audio: Savannah (01:45:06):
Can we have two?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:45:09):
No. The rule is how many snacks do you get here?
Audio: Savannah (01:45:10):
One.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:45:11):
One, that's right.
Speaker 3 (01:45:14):
Judge, I'm going to stop at 23:27. Fast-forward when they come back into the room.
Judge (01:45:18):
Thank you. How much time left in the video?
Speaker 3 (01:45:53):
5:23, Judge.
Judge (01:45:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:45:53):
Judge, I'm going to start it back at 24:40.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:45:53):
All right, [inaudible 01:46:03]
Audio: Savannah (01:45:53):
Oh, no.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:45:53):
Hello.
Audio: Savannah (01:45:53):
Hello.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:45:53):
[inaudible 01:46:22] is this good?
Audio: Savannah (01:45:53):
Mm-hmm. A seahorse.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:45:53):
Mm-hmm. What are you making over there?
Audio: Savannah (01:45:53):
Nothing.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:47:12):
[inaudible 01:46:46] What did you get? Did you get the fruit gummies? Oh, they're yummy, aren't they? Make sure you got them all take out of your bag. I don't like those. We're just about done. I have just one or two more questions. What are you drawing?
Audio: Savannah (01:47:13):
Myself.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:47:30):
Yourself? Look at that. Very good. You told me that you said that your dogs were here and here and here. Tell me about your dogs. What's your dog's names?
Audio: Savannah (01:47:41):
Sapphire.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:47:42):
Say again?
Audio: Savannah (01:47:42):
Sapphire, and Bubbles and Smokey.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:47:42):
Sapphia, Bubbles and Smokey. Did I get it?
Audio: Savannah (01:47:42):
Yeah.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:47:42):
Okay. And what does Sapphia look like?
Audio: Savannah (01:47:42):
Hmm?
Video: Ms. Osier (01:47:55):
What does Sapphia look like? What kind of dog does she look like?
Audio: Savannah (01:47:57):
Sapphire. Sapphire.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:47:57):
Sapphire?
Audio: Savannah (01:48:00):
Sapphire.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:48:02):
Sapphire. Did I get it? Thanks for correcting me and making sure I got that right. So tell me what Sapphire look like.
Audio: Savannah (01:48:08):
A gray dog.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:48:09):
She's a gray dog? Is she a big dog or a little dog or a medium dog?
Audio: Savannah (01:48:12):
A medium dog.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:48:14):
A medium dog. Okay. And she's gray? Okay. And then you said Smokey was one of them? Tell me about Smokey.
Audio: Savannah (01:48:24):
He's black.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:48:24):
Black?
Audio: Savannah (01:48:27):
He's old.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:48:28):
Old. Is he big or little or medium?
Audio: Savannah (01:48:30):
Big.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:48:33):
Big. Okay. And then what was the other one?
Audio: Savannah (01:48:34):
Bubbles.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:48:36):
Bubbles. Tell me about Bubbles. What's Bubbles look like?
Audio: Savannah (01:48:42):
A white dog.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:48:43):
A white dog. Is bubbles big or little or medium?
Audio: Savannah (01:48:46):
Little.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:48:48):
Little. Okay. So when you were laying right here and you told me your head was here and your feet were here, and you said you opened your eyes and you saw Paitin's eyes opening and closing.
Audio: Savannah (01:48:56):
Ew, that was on there.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:48:59):
And you saw Paitin's eyes opening and closing. Where were the dogs? Okay. And so who was right here?
Audio: Savannah (01:49:14):
Smokey.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:49:15):
And who was right here?
Audio: Savannah (01:49:18):
Bubbles.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:49:19):
And who was right here?
Audio: Savannah (01:49:20):
Sapphire.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:49:26):
Okay. What were they doing?
Audio: Savannah (01:49:28):
Just laying around playing together.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:49:31):
And when you went and got your grandma, what were the dogs doing then?
Audio: Savannah (01:49:36):
Laying down.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:49:37):
Laying down? Okay. Okay. I think that's all the questions I have. Is there anything else you can think of?
Audio: Savannah (01:49:49):
No. This is the black.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:49:51):
Yeah, that's right.
Audio: Savannah (01:49:51):
That's the black.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:49:51):
Okay.
Audio: Savannah (01:49:51):
That's the pink.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:50:07):
Pink. This is the pink one.
Audio: Savannah (01:50:07):
Good.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:50:07):
I love this picture that you drew yourself. Pink.
Audio: Savannah (01:50:08):
That was me in the blue.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:50:09):
That was who in the blue?
Audio: Savannah (01:50:09):
Me.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:50:09):
You in the blue?
Audio: Savannah (01:50:09):
[inaudible 01:50:13] colors.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:50:13):
Who's in the brown?
Audio: Savannah (01:50:15):
My body.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:50:15):
That's your body too?
Audio: Savannah (01:50:21):
I'm trying to get this leg out.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:50:27):
All right. Can you get it? We got all the black in there. Put this blue marker away and we got our markers put away.
Audio: Savannah (01:50:27):
We should have get some more food in here.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:50:27):
You think we need more food in here? Are you still hungry after your snack?
Audio: Savannah (01:50:39):
Yeah. I want some lunch.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:50:42):
Did you eat lunch today?
Audio: Savannah (01:50:43):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:50:43):
Huh?
Audio: Savannah (01:50:43):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:50:49):
Did you get... Oh, we missed one. Good eye.
Audio: Savannah (01:50:50):
My hands are not dirty.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:50:50):
Here, pass it.
Audio: Savannah (01:50:50):
My hands are not dirty.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:50:50):
They're not dirty? Okay. Thank you. Can you throw that in the trash can for me?
Audio: Savannah (01:51:03):
Mm-hmm. I can't get up. I hear my feet stick.
Video: Ms. Osier (01:51:10):
Can I I help you? Great job. Good job.
Audio: Savannah (01:51:18):
[inaudible 01:51:20]
Speaker 3 (01:51:21):
Judge, I'm stopping the recording.
Judge (01:51:23):
Thank you, sir. All right, members of the jury, we're going to go ahead and take our mid-morning break, close up your notebooks. I remind you do not have any conversations among yourselves. Do not have any contact with any of the parties, attorneys, or witnesses. Do not discuss this case with anybody else. Do not conduct your own independent investigation and do not post on any social media sites. We'll go ahead and excuse you for about 15 minutes.
Bailiff (01:51:49):
Thank You, Your Honor. Make sure your notebooks are closed. You'll leave those in your chairs. When ready, front row and back this way, please. Jury has left the courtroom.
Judge (01:52:28):
Thank you, sir. Let the record reflect that the jury has exited the courtroom. Ms. Ozier, you may step down.
Ms. Julie Ozier (01:52:33):
Thank you, sir.
Judge (01:52:50):
Is there anything that we need to discuss on behalf of the defense, Mr. Britt?
Mr. Britt (01:52:54):
No, sir.
Judge (01:52:54):
The State?
Speaker 3 (01:52:55):
Judge, while Ms. Ozier was testifying, our legal assistant made contact with our Charlotte witness. She is available to come on Monday.
Judge (01:53:04):
Monday. Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:53:05):
So can take Friday off if that's conducive to the jurors and within your discretion.
Judge (01:53:14):
Mr. Britt, anything you wish to say?
Mr. Britt (01:53:16):
No, sir.
Judge (01:53:18):
Okay. I think that is a reasonable request, especially since we don't have to substitute out juror number six, and that allows juror number three to attend the wedding rehearsal. So given that, we will take Friday off. I will inform the jury members at the end of the day that that will be the plan for Friday.
Speaker 3 (01:53:44):
Thank you.
Judge (01:53:44):
Okay. All right. We'll be at ease for the next 15 minutes.
Bailiff (01:53:45):
Court will be at ease for 15 minutes.
(01:53:45)
Court is now back in session.
Judge (02:08:38):
All right. We're back on the record. Is there anything that needs to be discussed on behalf of the state?
Speaker 3 (02:08:45):
No, Your Honor.
Judge (02:08:46):
On behalf of the defense?
Mr. Britt (02:08:46):
No, sir.
Judge (02:08:48):
Okay. Let's bring our jury back in.
Bailiff (02:08:51):
Bring in the jury. Jury seated, Your Honor.
Judge (02:09:33):
Thank you, sir. And let the record reflect that the jury has entered the courtroom. You, sir, in the back over there. I'm going to have you exit the courtroom for the remainder of the day today, okay?
Speaker 4 (02:09:51):
Me?
Judge (02:09:52):
Yes, you. All right. Thank you, sir. All right, State, you may continue.
Speaker 3 (02:10:03):
Ms. Ozier, as to the January 24th, 2018 forensic interview that we just watched prior to the break, what observations at that time did you make about Savannah?
Ms. Julie Ozier (02:10:15):
She was engaged, she struggled more with attention, I think was more distractable, still some avoidance. She was pretty distracted that session.
Speaker 3 (02:10:31):
All right. Now, you conducted a third interview on February 18th of 2022, is that correct?
Ms. Julie Ozier (02:10:38):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (02:10:39):
And that is, again, a forensic interview. At this time, Judge, permission to publish State's Exhibit 86 and the third video entitled Mac Play Video with a string of numbers, Judge.
Judge (02:10:53):
You may publish, and the video will not be broadcast, but the audio may.
Speaker 3 (02:10:59):
Thank you, Your Honor. Ms. Ozier, can you see the screen?
Ms. Julie Ozier (02:11:07):
I can.
Speaker 3 (02:11:07):
And where are we at on the third video?
Ms. Julie Ozier (02:11:11):
This is the older kids' interview room at the Carousel Center, so it's just on the other side of the wall.
Speaker 3 (02:11:17):
Thank you. Little bit different style.
Ms. Julie Ozier (02:11:19):
Yeah, a little bigger furniture.
Speaker 3 (02:11:36):
I apologize, Judge. It was somehow muted. I'm going to rewind it back to 0000.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:11:43):
The big comfy one [inaudible 02:11:44] He's in the other room.
Audio: Savannah (02:11:51):
Sleeping probably.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:11:53):
Probably. Probably right. Let's do this. Why don't you dump your goldfish right in there? Excellent. There you go. Give me your trash.
Audio: Savannah (02:12:09):
I have to open my juice.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:12:09):
Do you need help with it?
Audio: Savannah (02:12:09):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:12:09):
I'll help you.
Audio: Savannah (02:12:09):
I put it right here.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:12:09):
Perfect. Great idea. All right.
Audio: Savannah (02:12:09):
I just went to the dentist yesterday.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:12:32):
You did? What did they say? How was it? Uh-oh. That face looks like it wasn't very good.
Audio: Savannah (02:12:34):
No. They gummed my mouth.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:12:37):
They did what? They numbed it? Oh, that feels so weird.
Audio: Savannah (02:12:44):
My lip was the way...
Video: Ms. Osier (02:12:46):
Could you talk funny? Yeah. Does it feel better now? No. Let me see your teeth. Look, they're all bright and shiny though. Good. Cool. Well, Savannah, we've talked already, but it's been a long time.
Audio: Savannah (02:13:02):
Look, they're all there.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:13:03):
You're right. There's one in each
Audio: Savannah (02:13:03):
I recognize that.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:13:08):
Good. You remembered. Good. So my name's Julie. We've met before, but it's been a long time ago. And I wanted to just kind of learn about you and see what's been going on since I saw you. Last time I saw you, I think you were like seven years old. How old are you now?
Audio: Savannah (02:13:25):
11.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:13:25):
11? Whoa. Four years. Can you believe it?
Audio: Savannah (02:13:29):
Mm-mm.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:13:29):
Tell me what do you like to do, Savannah?
Audio: Savannah (02:13:35):
Eat.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:13:35):
You like to eat? What's your favorite foods to eat?
Audio: Savannah (02:13:38):
Macaroni and cheese.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:13:41):
Oh, my goodness. Do you like the kind in the blue box?
Audio: Savannah (02:13:44):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:13:44):
Do like to color it? Colors? Here's some markers.
Audio: Savannah (02:13:54):
I like to color, eat, sleep, play with dogs.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:14:01):
Oh, yeah. You said you told me when we were walking around earlier that you don't have any at home.
Audio: Savannah (02:14:05):
No.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:14:05):
Yeah. What dogs do you get to play with?
Audio: Savannah (02:14:11):
My dogs at my mom's house.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:14:13):
Dogs at your mom's house. What are their names? Do you remember?
Audio: Savannah (02:14:17):
They're at my grandma's house right now.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:14:24):
Oh, okay. Gotcha. And you told-
Audio: Savannah (02:14:24):
She got like a hundred dogs.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:14:26):
Whoa. Oh, my goodness. Tell me all about that.
Audio: Savannah (02:14:32):
I don't know where she got them from.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:14:43):
What do they do?
Audio: Savannah (02:14:43):
They do a lot of things.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:14:43):
Like what?
Audio: Savannah (02:14:43):
Mess up the house and everything.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:14:43):
What do they do to mess up the house?
Audio: Savannah (02:14:44):
They use the bathroom in the house.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:14:48):
They do? Oh, no. Does anybody have to clean it up?
Audio: Savannah (02:14:54):
My grandma.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:14:57):
Your grandma does.
Audio: Savannah (02:14:58):
I mean mine.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:15:03):
Your grandma [inaudible 02:15:02] So your grandma has to clean it up or somebody else?
Audio: Savannah (02:15:06):
My mom.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:15:07):
Your mom? Gotcha. If you could have a pet, what would you like? You can color.
Audio: Savannah (02:15:12):
A dog.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:15:18):
You would like a dog?
Audio: Savannah (02:15:18):
And a kitty cat and a bunny rabbit, all those animals.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:15:22):
You'd have them all, huh? You'd like a dog, a kitty cat, and a rabbit.
Audio: Savannah (02:15:27):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:15:28):
What would you name them?
Audio: Savannah (02:15:33):
I don't know.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:15:33):
You don't know?
Audio: Savannah (02:15:33):
Yeah.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:15:33):
You might have to feed them. So you also said you like to eat especially macaroni and cheese. Who makes the best macaroni and cheese?
Audio: Savannah (02:15:43):
Me.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:15:44):
You do? How do you make macaroni and cheese?
Audio: Savannah (02:15:46):
I cook it with my mom.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:15:48):
Tell me all about it. How do you make it?
Audio: Savannah (02:15:49):
You put boils of water.
Video: Ms. Osier (02:15:54):
You boil some water. Then what do you do?
Audio: Savannah (02:16:00):
You wait until 30 minutes when it boils-
Savannah Fields (02:16:00):
You wait until 30 minutes when it's boiled.
Interviewer (02:16:04):
Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:16:08):
Put the macaroni in there. And then you stir it until it's ready and then you put the cheese in there and it's done.
Interviewer (02:16:27):
Oh my goodness. That sounds delicious. Very good. Did you get lunch today?
Savannah Fields (02:16:29):
Yeah.
Interviewer (02:16:31):
What did you have for lunch?
Savannah Fields (02:16:33):
But we ate at 11 o'clock and I'm still hungry for no reason.
Interviewer (02:16:34):
Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:16:34):
For lunch I had pizza.
Interviewer (02:16:42):
Pizza. Where did you eat pizza today for lunch?
Savannah Fields (02:16:44):
School.
Interviewer (02:16:44):
Oh, at school, okay.
Savannah Fields (02:16:53):
School pizza.
Interviewer (02:16:53):
Oh, okay. Tell me about school. What do you like to do at school?
Savannah Fields (02:16:54):
Nothing.
Interviewer (02:16:54):
Nothing?
Savannah Fields (02:16:55):
Really nothing but play.
Interviewer (02:16:58):
Oh, okay. Do you get to play sometimes at school? Tell me all about that.
Savannah Fields (02:17:02):
So at one o'clock we play outside and then we come back in at 2:30.
Interviewer (02:17:08):
You didn't play outside that whole time? Okay. What do you like to play outside?
Savannah Fields (02:17:13):
Nothing but wrestlers.
Interviewer (02:17:15):
What do you mean wrestlers?
Savannah Fields (02:17:17):
WWE toys.
Interviewer (02:17:18):
Okay. What do they look like?
Savannah Fields (02:17:21):
If I have one right now I can show you, but I don't have one.
Interviewer (02:17:24):
Can you describe it to me with your words?
Savannah Fields (02:17:26):
Yeah. It's an action figure from the WWE show that I like to watch.
Interviewer (02:17:32):
Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:17:36):
And I like it because I got four of them at the house. I have The Undertaker, The Miz, Roman Reigns and Jeff Hardy.
Interviewer (02:17:49):
Hold on, I'm writing that down. Undertaker, The Miz, Roman Reigns and who?
Savannah Fields (02:17:56):
Jeff Hardy.
Interviewer (02:17:57):
Jeff Hardy. Okay. And they're all WWE wrestlers.
Savannah Fields (02:18:06):
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer (02:18:07):
Okay. So you like to play with those at school too? Do you bring it from home or something else?
Savannah Fields (02:18:10):
Somebody brings it.
Interviewer (02:18:11):
Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:18:11):
And I play with them.
Interviewer (02:18:14):
And then what do they look like?
Savannah Fields (02:18:15):
Action figures, like action figures.
Interviewer (02:18:16):
He's like an action figure. How big is it? Okay. Gotcha. Do you have a favorite one at home?
Savannah Fields (02:18:24):
The Undertaker.
Interviewer (02:18:26):
The Undertaker. Why is that one your favorite?
Savannah Fields (02:18:27):
He puts his eyes in the back of his head.
Interviewer (02:18:27):
What?
Savannah Fields (02:18:27):
And just walks.
Interviewer (02:18:33):
Oh my goodness. Is that real or pretend?
Savannah Fields (02:18:36):
Real.
Interviewer (02:18:36):
Oh my goodness. How did his eyes get in the back of his head?
Savannah Fields (02:18:40):
He just rolled them back there.
Interviewer (02:18:44):
Oh, okay. I think I understand now. So he rolls his eyes back.
Savannah Fields (02:18:46):
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer (02:18:47):
Ugh. That sounds pretty creepy.
Savannah Fields (02:18:47):
There's no yellow.
Interviewer (02:18:48):
Oh no. No yellow at all? Here, this is all the colored pencils in here.
Savannah Fields (02:19:01):
And yeah, he rolls his eyes. First he takes his head off and then he rolls his eyes in the back of his head.
Interviewer (02:19:07):
That is something. How did you get into WWE?
Savannah Fields (02:19:12):
They showed me.
Interviewer (02:19:14):
Who did?
Savannah Fields (02:19:14):
My aunt and my uncle.
Interviewer (02:19:15):
Your aunt and uncle did. Gotcha. Okay. Well, very good. You did a good job telling me some things about you. Thank you. So I explained a little bit about us talking today. I explained the camera. I'll write notes down sometimes too. It just helps me remember things.
Savannah Fields (02:19:33):
All right.
Interviewer (02:19:35):
You've got some stuff to color. When I showed you around earlier, I don't know if I told you or not, but just in case, when I talk to kids, they're not in any trouble. Okay? And I want to go over a few other things about us talking today. Do you have questions so far?
Savannah Fields (02:19:49):
No.
Interviewer (02:19:51):
All right. You can ask anytime. Okay. The first thing I want you to know is when we're talking today, if I ask you a question and you don't understand what I'm asking you, tell me and I'll ask it in a different way. Okay? Let's practice. If I was to say, "Savannah, what is your ocular hue?" What would you say?
Savannah Fields (02:20:07):
I don't know what that is.
Interviewer (02:20:09):
That's a really hard word. Okay, let me try it a different way. Ocular means eye and hue means color. So what is your eye color? Do you know what your eye color is?
Savannah Fields (02:20:19):
No.
Interviewer (02:20:21):
Okay, good. So the next thing I was going to tell you is if I ask you a question, you don't know the answer, you just say, " I don't know." Okay? So you did a good job with that. Let's try another one. Let's see. Oh, and if you know the answer, I do want you to tell me. So if I was to say, "Savannah, what's your last name?" What would you say?
Savannah Fields (02:20:47):
Fields.
Interviewer (02:20:48):
Fields. You know that one. That's really easy, right? Good. Now what if I asked you what my last name is?
Savannah Fields (02:20:55):
I don't really know.
Interviewer (02:20:57):
Perfect. You did a great job not guessing. That's just what I want you to do if I ask you a question and you don't know, okay? I ask a lot of questions. I don't expect you to know the answers to all of them. Let's see. Oh, then the other thing I want you to know, Savannah, is I make mistakes and get things mixed up, and when I do that, I want you to correct me, even if it's something little, okay? Let's practice. If I was to say, Savannah, you told me you're nine years old, right?
Savannah Fields (02:21:24):
No, I'm not nine, I'm 11.
Interviewer (02:21:27):
Perfect. Good job correcting me. Thank you. That's just what I want you to do. All right. And then let's see. Let me use this real quick. What's your favorite color?
Savannah Fields (02:21:39):
Blue.
Interviewer (02:21:39):
What's my favorite color?
Savannah Fields (02:21:43):
[inaudible 02:21:47].
Interviewer (02:21:46):
Is that right? Blue. Okay. All right. I'm not good at drawing.
Savannah Fields (02:21:53):
A house.
Interviewer (02:21:54):
It is a house. Good job. All right. Me, I'm going to draw a boy and a girl.
Savannah Fields (02:22:01):
Okay.
Interviewer (02:22:01):
So let me draw them and then you tell me which one is which. All right. Can you tell which one's the boy? Yep. Which one's a girl? Good job. Okay. Now, this little boy and this little girl are playing outside. The little boy picks up a rock and he throws the rock-
Savannah Fields (02:22:32):
Oh, he throws.
Interviewer (02:22:33):
... against the window. What happens to the window?
Savannah Fields (02:22:35):
It breaks.
Interviewer (02:22:36):
You want to draw the window break for me? Ah, look at that. Now watch what happens next, Savannah. The lady who lives in the house comes outside. What kind of face should I put on her?
Savannah Fields (02:22:51):
A mad face.
Interviewer (02:22:56):
A mad face. And she says, "Little boy, what happened to my window?" And the little boy says, " The girl threw the rock and broke the window."
Savannah Fields (02:23:01):
Lie.
Interviewer (02:23:03):
It was a lie. What happens to the little boy for telling a lie?
Savannah Fields (02:23:07):
He goes to the devil.
Interviewer (02:23:09):
He goes to the devil. He gets in trouble, doesn't he? So then the lady asked the little girl, "Little girl, what happened to my window?" And the little girl says, "The boy threw the rock and broke the window."
Savannah Fields (02:23:20):
She right.
Interviewer (02:23:21):
Right. Is that a true thing or a lie?
Savannah Fields (02:23:22):
It's a true thing.
Interviewer (02:23:23):
Right. And telling the truth is the right thing to do. And I've heard your Aunt Rebe tell you also to be honest. Okay? Will you make me a really important promise today and promise to tell me things that are true and real.
Savannah Fields (02:23:34):
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer (02:23:35):
Thank you. I'll only tell you real and true things too, okay? All right. Let's see. What else do I want you to know about us talking? When you're telling me about things, it helps me if you tell me about things from beginning to middle to end with all the little details, because I wasn't there to see things with my own eyes. Okay? So I want to practice. I want you to think about your morning this morning.
Savannah Fields (02:24:03):
My morning this morning?
Interviewer (02:24:04):
Yeah. And then I want you to tell me everything that happened from the moment you got up until you left your house. And tell me all about it from beginning to middle to end.
Savannah Fields (02:24:17):
I got up this morning, went to the bathroom. I used the bathroom, plus the toilet. I washed my hands. I put my clothes on. I brushed my teeth. I got my socks and shoes on. She brushed my hair. We left. We went to the road. I got on the bus and we were at the school.
Interviewer (02:24:45):
Oh my goodness me.
Savannah Fields (02:24:47):
And I got in the classroom.
Interviewer (02:24:48):
I think that's just about the best job anybody's ever done with that. Thank you so much. I only have a couple of questions. You did such a good job telling me everything that happened. You said you got up, tell me what made you wake up this morning.
Savannah Fields (02:25:01):
What time I woke up?
Interviewer (02:25:01):
No. What was it that made you wake up?
Savannah Fields (02:25:05):
She woke me up.
Interviewer (02:25:06):
She woke you up? Who's she?
Savannah Fields (02:25:08):
My aunt.
Interviewer (02:25:09):
Tell me all about your aunt waking you up this morning.
Savannah Fields (02:25:11):
So she has an alarm when she wakes up. She gets me up, gets me... I get myself ready. She brushed my hair and she takes me to the road.
Interviewer (02:25:24):
Gotcha. So your aunt woke you up, she has an alarm. And so this morning, did you hear the alarm or did your aunt do something or something else?
Savannah Fields (02:25:36):
I was asleep.
Interviewer (02:25:37):
What made you wake up?
Savannah Fields (02:25:38):
She woke me up.
Interviewer (02:25:39):
How did she wake you up?
Savannah Fields (02:25:40):
She called my name.
Interviewer (02:25:42):
Oh, she called your name. Thank you for helping me understand that part. Then you said you went to the bathroom, you used the bathroom, you flushed, and you washed your hands, which I'm really happy about that. You put your clothes on, you brushed your teeth. Am I getting this all right?
Savannah Fields (02:25:57):
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer (02:25:58):
You put on your socks and shoes, and then you said she brushed your hair. Tell me about that part.
Savannah Fields (02:26:05):
I'm too tired to get up in the morning, so she brushed my hair.
Interviewer (02:26:11):
Okay. Tell me everything about that, because I wasn't there to see that with my own eyes.
Savannah Fields (02:26:15):
She put some spray in my hair and then she brushed it and then put something on there.
Interviewer (02:26:22):
Gotcha. So she put some spray in your hair first and then she brushed it and then she put something on there?
Savannah Fields (02:26:27):
A hairband.
Interviewer (02:26:28):
Oh, a hairband. I see it now. Gotcha. Okay. Thank you for helping me understand that part. Then you said you left to the road, we left the road, who's we?
Savannah Fields (02:26:40):
Me and my aunt.
Interviewer (02:26:40):
Oh, you and your aunt. Okay. And then you got on the bus.
Savannah Fields (02:26:43):
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer (02:26:43):
Very good. You did a great job with that. I understand even though I wasn't there. I want to talk now about being here today. How are you feeling about being here today?
Savannah Fields (02:26:54):
I don't know.
Interviewer (02:26:58):
You don't know? Okay. Sometimes kids feel nervous or worried or confused. Do you have any feelings like that?
Savannah Fields (02:27:09):
I felt confused. I don't know where we were going.
Interviewer (02:27:15):
You don't know... You didn't know where we were going? Okay. Gotcha. Do you have any worries about talking to me? Sometimes kids feel scared or worried or nervous. Do you have any worries like that?
Savannah Fields (02:27:21):
No.
Interviewer (02:27:23):
All right. If you think of any worries while we're talking, I want you to tell me so we can try to figure them out together, okay? And all I want you to do is try your best.
Savannah Fields (02:27:32):
Okay.
Interviewer (02:27:32):
Thank you. So tell me, what are you here to talk to me about today?
Savannah Fields (02:27:35):
My sister.
Interviewer (02:27:36):
Your sister. Okay. Tell me about that.
Savannah Fields (02:27:39):
[inaudible 02:27:43].
Interviewer (02:27:43):
Gotcha.
Savannah Fields (02:27:55):
That she died.
Interviewer (02:27:57):
She died. Okay. I think I remember that was when you came here before.
Savannah Fields (02:28:02):
Yeah.
Interviewer (02:28:02):
I want you to think about when she died, and I want you to tell me everything you remembered from before that happened until after that happened. Okay?
Savannah Fields (02:28:27):
I don't remember anything about that.
Interviewer (02:28:29):
You don't remember anything? Okay. Do you remember when your sister died?
Savannah Fields (02:28:33):
No. I think it was December or something.
Interviewer (02:28:39):
Okay. When she died, do you remember what room she was in?
Savannah Fields (02:28:42):
The living room.
Interviewer (02:28:43):
Oh, the living room. Okay. You remember that part?
Savannah Fields (02:28:46):
With me.
Interviewer (02:28:48):
With you. Okay. Gotcha. So you and your sister were in the living room. Was it daytime or nighttime or something else.
Savannah Fields (02:28:56):
Night-night time.
Interviewer (02:28:56):
Night-night time. Okay. Do you remember that night when you and your sister went night-night, where did you guys go to bed?
Savannah Fields (02:29:09):
The couch.
Interviewer (02:29:09):
On the couch. Okay. And I have a picture. Tell me what this is. What's that a picture of?
Savannah Fields (02:29:21):
My living room.
Interviewer (02:29:32):
That's the living room.
Savannah Fields (02:29:35):
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer (02:29:38):
Okay. And you said you were on the couch, you and your sister went to sleep on the couch. Show me where. Right there. Who went to sleep right there?
Savannah Fields (02:29:46):
She did.
Interviewer (02:29:49):
She did. What's your sister's name again?
Savannah Fields (02:29:49):
Paitin.
Interviewer (02:29:51):
Paitin. So Paitin went to sleep right there. Where were you?
Savannah Fields (02:29:52):
Right there.
Interviewer (02:29:55):
Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:29:56):
The dogs were right there and some were right there.
Interviewer (02:30:00):
The dogs were right here?
Savannah Fields (02:30:00):
And right there.
Interviewer (02:30:00):
Okay. What were you and Paitin doing before you guys went to bed?
Savannah Fields (02:30:08):
Nothing but watch TV.
Interviewer (02:30:09):
Oh, you watched TV? Okay. Where was everybody else sleeping?
Savannah Fields (02:30:16):
My Uncle Booboo slept that way and I and my Nana and Papa went that way.
Interviewer (02:30:23):
Okay. So Uncle Booboo slept this way. Whose room was he in?
Savannah Fields (02:30:26):
My room.
Interviewer (02:30:31):
Okay. And your Nana and Papa, you said were this way.
Savannah Fields (02:30:34):
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer (02:30:34):
Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:30:34):
And the kitchen was that way.
Interviewer (02:30:37):
And the kitchen was that way. You remember a lot.
Savannah Fields (02:30:39):
Yeah.
Interviewer (02:30:46):
Okay. Tell me about... So when you went to sleep, you and Paitin were on the couch, you said you were watching TV, do you remember what you were watching? Okay. That's okay.
Savannah Fields (02:30:51):
I think it was Barney. I don't know.
Interviewer (02:30:57):
Okay. But I'm glad you told me if you don't know, that's okay. So what happened when you woke up?
Savannah Fields (02:31:03):
I saw my Uncle Booboo coming from the couch back to his room.
Interviewer (02:31:08):
Okay. You saw your Uncle Booboo coming from the couch back to his room.
Savannah Fields (02:31:13):
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer (02:31:15):
What happened next?
Savannah Fields (02:31:18):
I didn't see anything next. I just woke up.
Interviewer (02:31:20):
Okay. What happened next?
Savannah Fields (02:31:22):
I saw her eyes blinking back and forth to her head.
Interviewer (02:31:25):
Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:31:28):
And then I went to my Nana and Papa's room and wake them up and they said, "Go back to bed."
Interviewer (02:31:34):
Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:31:35):
I told you this before. But then my Nana came in here, she turned the light on because I was watching TV and she saw her with her eyes going back and forth with her head.
Interviewer (02:31:50):
Okay. What happened then?
Savannah Fields (02:31:55):
They called 911. They went to the room, the hospital.
Interviewer (02:32:05):
When Nana came out and saw her eyes...
Savannah Fields (02:32:11):
They called.
Interviewer (02:32:11):
What did she do when she first saw Paitin with her eyes blinking back in her head?
Savannah Fields (02:32:16):
Picked her up.
Interviewer (02:32:17):
Oh, she picked her up. Okay. What did she do?
Savannah Fields (02:32:20):
She called my Papa and my Uncle Booboo.
Interviewer (02:32:24):
What did she say? What did it sound like?
Savannah Fields (02:32:30):
She didn't say anything. She sounded like she was crying.
Interviewer (02:32:31):
She was crying. And she called Papa and Uncle Booboo. What was the next thing that happened?
Savannah Fields (02:32:43):
They took her to the hospital.
Interviewer (02:32:43):
Okay. Who took her to the hospital?
Savannah Fields (02:32:51):
Uncle Booboo and Papa. Nana got me ready to go to the hospital.
Interviewer (02:32:54):
Did you go to the hospital?
Savannah Fields (02:32:54):
Yes, I went to the hospital.
Interviewer (02:32:55):
Okay. What did Nana do?
Savannah Fields (02:32:57):
She called my aunt, not my aunt that's Liz, she called my other aunt, I don't remember her name, and she took me. And then some people got me to pick up, and then after that day and that night, the other night, these people came to pick me up to take me to Miss... I forgot her name.
Interviewer (02:33:35):
Okay. That's okay. Okay. So let me make sure I got all this.
Savannah Fields (02:33:38):
Miss Newkirk's.
Interviewer (02:33:39):
You remember a lot.
Savannah Fields (02:33:43):
Yeah. I just...
Interviewer (02:33:45):
Good job. It just took you a minute to think about it, huh?
Savannah Fields (02:33:47):
Yeah.
Interviewer (02:33:50):
All right. Okay. So you and Paitin had gone to bed on the couch and you were watching something on TV, maybe Barney, but you're not sure. And you woke up and you said you saw Uncle Boo coming from the couch to his room.
Savannah Fields (02:34:09):
Uncle Booboo.
Interviewer (02:34:09):
Oh, good job correcting me again, you are on it. So you saw Uncle Booboo coming from the couch back to his room. Tell me everything about that part.
Savannah Fields (02:34:20):
I just saw him... I woke up and I saw him come from the couch all the way to his bedroom. I don't know what else happened.
Interviewer (02:34:29):
Okay. What was Uncle Booboo doing?
Savannah Fields (02:34:29):
I don't know.
Interviewer (02:34:34):
Okay. You said he was coming from the couch. What part of the couch was he coming from? [inaudible 02:34:42]. Here you go.
Savannah Fields (02:34:42):
That side.
Interviewer (02:34:44):
That side. And where did he go?
Savannah Fields (02:34:50):
Back to his room.
Interviewer (02:34:53):
Okay. And so you did like this. Did I get that right?
Savannah Fields (02:34:57):
Yeah.
Interviewer (02:35:00):
Okay. Do you remember what he was wearing? What kind of clothes did he have on?
Savannah Fields (02:35:01):
Night clothes.
Interviewer (02:35:01):
Huh?
Savannah Fields (02:35:01):
His night clothes.
Interviewer (02:35:01):
His night clothes? What did they look like?
Savannah Fields (02:35:01):
I don't remember, but I think it was blue and black.
Interviewer (02:35:13):
Uh-huh. What makes you think it was blue and black?
Savannah Fields (02:35:16):
I just know he was wearing blue and black.
Interviewer (02:35:26):
Okay. Could you hear anything when you woke up?
Savannah Fields (02:35:27):
No, I didn't hear anything.
Interviewer (02:35:30):
Okay. Do you know what made you wake up?
Savannah Fields (02:35:34):
No, I just woke up. I usually just wake up in the middle of the night [inaudible 02:35:36].
Interviewer (02:35:35):
Okay. Was there any lights on or TVs on or anything?
Savannah Fields (02:35:40):
The kitchen light was on.
Interviewer (02:35:42):
The kitchen light was on? Okay. And then could you hear anything else?
Savannah Fields (02:35:46):
No.
Interviewer (02:35:47):
Was the TV on or off or something else?
Savannah Fields (02:35:49):
It was off.
Interviewer (02:35:51):
It was off.
Savannah Fields (02:35:51):
Until I turned it on.
Interviewer (02:35:52):
Okay. So you woke up and saw Uncle Booboo coming from the couch, going back to his room. You said the kitchen light was on, but the TV was off. What was the very next thing you did after that?
Savannah Fields (02:36:09):
After what?
Interviewer (02:36:11):
After Uncle Booboo left the room.
Savannah Fields (02:36:13):
I went to Nana. I said, "Something's wrong with Paitin."
Interviewer (02:36:18):
Okay, gotcha. And you said Paitin's eyes were moving back and blinking back and forth. Do you remember anything else about how Paitin looked?
Savannah Fields (02:36:28):
They said that she turned purple.
Interviewer (02:36:30):
What do you remember seeing with your eyes?
Savannah Fields (02:36:32):
Saw her eyes blinking back and forth.
Interviewer (02:36:36):
Uh-huh. Do you remember seeing anything else with your eyes?
Savannah Fields (02:36:37):
No.
Interviewer (02:36:38):
Okay. So you went to wake up Nana and Papa, and they said to go back to bed, and what did you do then?
Savannah Fields (02:36:48):
I went to go turn the TV on.
Interviewer (02:36:50):
Okay. Do you remember what you were watching then?
Savannah Fields (02:36:58):
No.
Interviewer (02:36:58):
Okay. And then what was the next thing that happened?
Savannah Fields (02:37:03):
Nana went to see what I was doing.
Interviewer (02:37:07):
Oh, okay. So that was when Nana came and saw her, and you said she picked her up.
Savannah Fields (02:37:12):
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer (02:37:13):
Okay. I think you said they called 911.
Savannah Fields (02:37:25):
And then they didn't answer, they just took her to the doctor and the doctor took her to the hospital.
Interviewer (02:37:29):
Gotcha. And so you said that Uncle Booboo and Papa took Paitin to the hospital and Nana got you ready?
Savannah Fields (02:37:37):
Yeah, she got me ready to go to the hospital.
Interviewer (02:37:40):
Okay. Did you go to the hospital with Uncle Booboo and Papa and Paitin or did somebody else take you or something else?
Savannah Fields (02:37:47):
Nana took me.
Interviewer (02:37:48):
Oh, Nana took you. Okay. So then after Nana got you ready, Nana took you to the hospital. Tell me what Nana did to get you ready.
Savannah Fields (02:37:55):
She put my clothes on.
Interviewer (02:37:57):
Okay. What else did she do?
Savannah Fields (02:38:03):
Then she got me in the car and she went fast, and then she took me to the hospital to the doctor, and then they said that she's going to go to the hospital.
Interviewer (02:38:12):
Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:38:13):
And then they took her to the hospital. I got in Nana and Papa's car, and Uncle Booboo was in the hospital truck. I mean, Nana and Papa was in the hospital... I mean, Uncle Booboo and Papa was in the hospital truck and Nana was in the car.
Interviewer (02:38:33):
Gotcha. Okay. And who were you with?
Savannah Fields (02:38:34):
Nana and Papa.
Interviewer (02:38:39):
Okay. What was everybody saying?
Savannah Fields (02:38:40):
Nothing.
Interviewer (02:38:42):
What were they saying about what happened to Paitin?
Savannah Fields (02:38:45):
I don't know.
Interviewer (02:38:51):
Okay. And then your Nana called your other aunt, is that right?
Savannah Fields (02:38:55):
Yeah.
Interviewer (02:38:57):
And then the next night, some other people took you to Ms. Newkirk's house.
Savannah Fields (02:39:00):
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer (02:39:03):
Okay. Did you see Nana and Papa or Uncle Booboo after that?
Savannah Fields (02:39:06):
No, I have not.
Interviewer (02:39:17):
Okay. Before the night that Paitin died, where did you usually sleep? Right there? Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:39:22):
And I used to sleep right there, right there, sometimes right there, where the [inaudible 02:39:36] were.
Interviewer (02:39:38):
Oh, okay. Gotcha. So you slept usually here, and where would Paitin usually sleep at?
Savannah Fields (02:39:42):
At Nana's room.
Interviewer (02:39:44):
Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:39:44):
And then my room.
Interviewer (02:39:44):
Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:39:48):
And then Uncle Booboo's room because it was Christmas.
Interviewer (02:39:52):
Okay. Let me see. I have some other pictures. I need your help with those. Let's see. Whose room is this? Do you recognize that room?
Savannah Fields (02:40:05):
That was my room.
Interviewer (02:40:13):
That one was your room?
Savannah Fields (02:40:13):
No, that was Nana's room.
Interviewer (02:40:14):
Oh, that was Nana's room. Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:40:15):
Yeah.
Interviewer (02:40:16):
Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:40:18):
Where that clown toy was.
Interviewer (02:40:19):
There's a clown toy here?
Savannah Fields (02:40:19):
Under the bed.
Interviewer (02:40:26):
Oh, okay. So this was Nana's room. Who usually slept in here?
Savannah Fields (02:40:28):
Papa slept right there and Nana slept right there. Sometimes I slept right there.
Interviewer (02:40:44):
Okay. Gotcha. So you said Nana slept right here, Papa slept right here, and sometimes you slept right here. What about Paitin? Did she ever sleep in here?
Savannah Fields (02:40:45):
She slept right there and sometimes I slept right there too.
Interviewer (02:40:58):
Okay. Gotcha. So sometimes you slept down there and sometimes Paitin slept there. Okay. And then, let me see. You said that, if I'm remembering correctly, that Uncle Booboo that night was going back to his room.
Savannah Fields (02:41:07):
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer (02:41:09):
And what room was he sleeping in? Whose room was that?
Savannah Fields (02:41:16):
That was my room.
Interviewer (02:41:16):
That was yours. Okay. Which one is your room? Do you remember?
Savannah Fields (02:41:28):
That was his room.
Interviewer (02:41:28):
That was his room?
Savannah Fields (02:41:28):
And that's my room.
Interviewer (02:41:29):
Okay. So this was Savannah's room, and this was Uncle Booboo's room?
Savannah Fields (02:41:37):
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer (02:41:43):
Okay. And so the night that Paitin died, where was Uncle Booboo sleeping that night? Do you know? In this room. Okay. How come he was sleeping in your room?
Savannah Fields (02:41:54):
I don't know.
Interviewer (02:41:57):
Gotcha. Did anybody sleep in this room?
Savannah Fields (02:42:06):
Uncle Booboo.
Interviewer (02:42:07):
Did he sleep that night or a different time?
Savannah Fields (02:42:09):
Where?
Interviewer (02:42:11):
In this room.
Savannah Fields (02:42:13):
No, different time.
Interviewer (02:42:14):
A different time. Okay. All right. In your room, did you have covers on your bed? What were the covers on your bed look like?
Savannah Fields (02:42:26):
Butterflies and with a mermaid on there.
Interviewer (02:42:30):
Butterflies with a mermaid. Did you ever sleep in your room?
Savannah Fields (02:42:36):
Yes.
Interviewer (02:42:37):
What about Paitin? Where did she sleep?
Savannah Fields (02:42:37):
She slept in the same...
Interviewer (02:42:39):
This room or a different room?
Savannah Fields (02:42:43):
In the same room.
Interviewer (02:42:47):
Okay. What happened to the butterflies and mermaid blanket?
Savannah Fields (02:42:50):
I think they took it off and put it somewhere else.
Interviewer (02:42:55):
Oh, okay. When Uncle Booboo slept there, were there any covers on the bed?
Savannah Fields (02:43:02):
His covers with food stuff all over his room.
Interviewer (02:43:08):
Food stuff? What do you mean?
Savannah Fields (02:43:10):
Nasty stuff. He put food all over his covers, that stuff.
Interviewer (02:43:14):
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:43:14):
And I don't know what that is though.
Interviewer (02:43:22):
Yeah. What kind of food stuff did he put on his covers before?
Savannah Fields (02:43:28):
He usually eat popcorn and all that.
Interviewer (02:43:41):
Okay. Gotcha. Okay. When you said, the night that Paitin died, you saw Uncle Booboo coming from here over to here, how do you know that happened?
Savannah Fields (02:43:46):
Because I woke up that night.
Interviewer (02:43:47):
Okay. You woke up that night. When you and I talked a long time ago, I don't remember if you told me that part.
Savannah Fields (02:44:08):
No, I didn't.
Interviewer (02:44:09):
How come you didn't tell me that part then?
Savannah Fields (02:44:10):
I don't know.
Interviewer (02:44:10):
You don't know?
Savannah Fields (02:44:10):
I was only seven. I don't remember that.
Interviewer (02:44:20):
Okay. Did anybody ever say anything about what to tell or what not to tell?
Savannah Fields (02:44:23):
No.
Interviewer (02:44:29):
Okay. Are you sure?
Savannah Fields (02:44:29):
Mm-hmm.
Interviewer (02:44:47):
You're looking like a little uncertain. All right. What do you think happened to Paitin?
Savannah Fields (02:44:49):
I think that Uncle Booboo killed her.
Interviewer (02:44:51):
Mm-hmm. Why do you think that? What makes you think that?
Savannah Fields (02:44:55):
I don't know. Because I saw him coming from the couch that night.
Interviewer (02:45:05):
Yeah. Okay. Did anybody else know what happened to Paitin?
Savannah Fields (02:45:06):
No.
Interviewer (02:45:13):
All right, kiddo. Why don't we take a quick break? Are you hungry or thirsty?
Savannah Fields (02:45:19):
Yeah.
Interviewer (02:45:20):
Did you finish... You still got some juice, but maybe another snack. Do you want me to see... We might have some macaroni and cheese. Do you want me to see if they can-
Savannah Fields (02:45:28):
Yeah.
Interviewer (02:45:29):
... macaroni cheese? Okay. It'll be a few minutes. I want you to stay in here and color me a picture, okay?
Savannah Fields (02:45:35):
Okay.
Interviewer (02:45:35):
You do that.
Savannah Fields (02:45:35):
What's these?
Interviewer (02:45:59):
Feel free to explore those. All right. I'm going to be right back, okay? [inaudible 02:45:48]. I know, that's all.
Speaker 5 (02:45:59):
Judge, I'm going to stop at 34:04. That's when she comes back in the room.
Judge (02:46:18):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (02:46:40):
Judge, I'm replaying it at 43:12.
Judge (02:46:44):
Thank you.
Savannah Fields (02:46:56):
Cheese. I need cheese.
Interviewer (02:46:57):
All right. Is there anything else that you remember about that night that I forgot to ask you about?
Savannah Fields (02:47:04):
No.
Interviewer (02:47:05):
Or anything else about what happened to Paitin? Okay. Let me make sure I got a couple of things right. I think I understand, but let me just double check.
Savannah Fields (02:47:19):
It's hot in here.
Interviewer (02:47:20):
It is a little. Do you want to take your jacket off?
Savannah Fields (02:47:26):
I got school stuff.
Interviewer (02:47:32):
That's okay. Let's take your jacket off. I'll help you. Okay. When you went to bed that night before Paitin had her eyes blinking in her head, where did you go to bed? I think you said you were here. You were right there. Okay. I know it's hard to see. Okay, so that's you, and where was Paitin when you guys went to sleep? Right there. Okay. And you said you woke up and saw Uncle Booboo walking from here over to here, going back to your room?
Savannah Fields (02:48:07):
Yeah.
Interviewer (02:48:08):
Okay. And you said you think he had his night clothes on. Where was Paitin when you woke up and saw Uncle Booboo going back to his room or going back to your room? Right there? Okay. And when you saw Paitin right there, what did she look like? That's when her eyes were blinking like that. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. When I asked if someone ever told you what to say or what not to say, you said no? Okay. Did anybody ever say what would happen if people found out what happened to Paitin or where you would go or anything like that?
Savannah Fields (02:48:55):
No.
Interviewer (02:48:55):
Okay. I think that's all the questions I have. Just to make sure I got everybody, who's this?
Savannah Fields (02:49:12):
Me and my sister.
Interviewer (02:49:14):
You and your sister?
Savannah Fields (02:49:14):
That's me.
Interviewer (02:49:14):
Uh-huh. Is that Paitin?
Savannah Fields (02:49:14):
Yeah.
Interviewer (02:49:20):
You guys were so little.
Savannah Fields (02:49:22):
I think she was three and I was five.
Interviewer (02:49:30):
Yeah. You were little.
Savannah Fields (02:49:30):
With my haircut. My Nana cut my hair.
Interviewer (02:49:30):
You guys look cute. Who's this right here? Can you tell who that is?
Savannah Fields (02:49:30):
My Papa.
Interviewer (02:49:40):
That's your Papa?
Savannah Fields (02:49:41):
My Papa.
Interviewer (02:49:41):
Let's see. Who's this?
Savannah Fields (02:49:48):
My Uncle Booboo.
Interviewer (02:49:49):
Your Uncle Booboo. What's that face for?
Savannah Fields (02:49:56):
I just did that face because I wanted to.
Interviewer (02:49:57):
Yeah. Okay. How do you feel about Uncle Booboo?
Savannah Fields (02:49:59):
I have no clue.
Interviewer (02:49:59):
No clue. Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:50:00):
I have no clue.
Julie Ozier (02:50:01):
You have no clue. Okay. Did Uncle Boo-Boo or anybody else ever do something to you that hurt you or you didn't like?
Savannah Fields (02:50:07):
No.
Julie Ozier (02:50:10):
Okay. Who's this?
Savannah Fields (02:50:10):
My nana.
Julie Ozier (02:50:20):
That's your nana? Yeah. Sounds like it's been a long time since you've seen her.
Savannah Fields (02:50:22):
And that doesn't look like-
Julie Ozier (02:50:22):
That doesn't look very much like your papa.
Savannah Fields (02:50:25):
And that doesn't really look like my nana.
Julie Ozier (02:50:28):
How do they look different than that?
Savannah Fields (02:50:31):
Papa had his hair braided for longer, and nana used to smoke.
Julie Ozier (02:50:36):
Oh, okay. Gotcha. Okay. Do you have any questions for me? Okay. How are you feeling now at Aunt Re Re's and your uncle's house?
Savannah Fields (02:50:48):
What?
Julie Ozier (02:50:49):
How do you feel at your Aunt Re Re and your uncle's house?
Savannah Fields (02:50:52):
My uncle.
Julie Ozier (02:50:53):
Who do you live with?
Savannah Fields (02:50:54):
My Uncle Robert.
Julie Ozier (02:50:55):
Robert. Right now.
Savannah Fields (02:50:56):
[inaudible 02:50:56] he from the first time?
Julie Ozier (02:50:58):
Yes, exactly.
Savannah Fields (02:50:59):
When I had COVID.
Julie Ozier (02:51:00):
When you had COVID, yeah.
Savannah Fields (02:51:02):
Fine. They get me whatever I want. Except for a phone.
Julie Ozier (02:51:06):
Except for a phone. Okay. Do you have any worries there?
Savannah Fields (02:51:09):
No.
Julie Ozier (02:51:09):
Okay. Do you feel safe or worries about anybody hurting you?
Savannah Fields (02:51:09):
No.
Julie Ozier (02:51:09):
Okay.
Savannah Fields (02:51:16):
He said, my Uncle Robert said. "If somebody put their hands on me, he get the pipe out."
Julie Ozier (02:51:26):
Oh my goodness. Yeah. I think that's all the questions I have.
Savannah Fields (02:51:29):
You going to bring her back in here so you can talk to her?
Julie Ozier (02:51:32):
I'm going to let you go out there with your Aunt Re Re and Allie's going to bring her macaroni and cheese and then I'm probably going to talk to your Aunt Re Re for a few minutes and then you guys will be ready to go.
Savannah Fields (02:51:41):
Okay.
Julie Ozier (02:51:41):
Hand me that marker right there. [inaudible 02:51:46] all right. And why don't you take your mask?
Savannah Fields (02:51:55):
Oh yeah, I forgot it.
Julie Ozier (02:52:00):
You want your juice? Juice. All right.
Savannah Fields (02:52:00):
Look, and I forgot my pen. Got it.
Jason Smith (02:52:24):
[inaudible 02:52:10] ended at 48:28. May I continue with the witness, Your Honor?
Your Honor (02:52:26):
You may. Ms. Ozier, in that forensic interview, you had a number of pictures that you were going over with Savannah. Is that correct?
Julie Ozier (02:52:39):
Correct.
Jason Smith (02:52:43):
And they previously have been entered into evidence with the child evaluation summary, State's Exhibit 85. Is that correct? The pictures?
Julie Ozier (02:52:54):
The photos?
Jason Smith (02:52:55):
Yeah.
Julie Ozier (02:52:55):
Were they attached to it?
Jason Smith (02:52:55):
Yes.
Julie Ozier (02:52:55):
Okay. Yes.
Jason Smith (02:53:00):
All right. But I am going to mark them for clarity, Judge, and probably readmit them. Can I approach the witness?
Your Honor (02:53:18):
You may.
Jason Smith (02:53:44):
I'm going to show you what's previously been admitted with a packet, but I broke them out and going to readmit them separately. State's Exhibit 87, 88, and 89. Do you recognize those documents?
Julie Ozier (02:53:54):
Yes.
Jason Smith (02:53:55):
And what is 87?
Julie Ozier (02:53:59):
87 is a copy of the photo I showed to Savannah in that interview with some markings that she drew when I draw.
Jason Smith (02:54:10):
Okay. Fairly and accurately depict the photograph and the markings that Savannah filled and you made on 2/18/22 in the course of your forensic interview?
Julie Ozier (02:54:22):
Yes.
Jason Smith (02:54:22):
Would they assist you in your testimony today?
Julie Ozier (02:54:24):
Yes.
Jason Smith (02:54:25):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 87.
Your Honor (02:54:27):
Any objection?
Luther Johnson Britt III (02:54:28):
No, sir.
Your Honor (02:54:29):
State's 87 will be admitted into evidence.
Jason Smith (02:54:31):
88. I'm showing you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 88. Do you recognize 88?
Julie Ozier (02:54:37):
I do.
Jason Smith (02:54:39):
And what is 88?
Julie Ozier (02:54:40):
This is the photograph that we looked at in that interview and she said was her room and that Uncle Boo-Boo slept there.
Jason Smith (02:54:48):
Fairly and accurately depict the photograph that you displayed in your forensic interview on 2/18/22?
Julie Ozier (02:54:55):
Yes.
Jason Smith (02:54:56):
Will it assist you in your testimony today?
Julie Ozier (02:54:57):
Yes.
Jason Smith (02:54:58):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 88.
Your Honor (02:55:00):
Any objection?
Luther Johnson Britt III (02:55:00):
No, sir.
Your Honor (02:55:01):
State's 88 will be admitted into evidence.
Jason Smith (02:55:03):
And then State's Exhibit 89. Do you recognize State's Exhibit 89?
Julie Ozier (02:55:08):
I do. It's another photo that we used in that interview that she indicated was Uncle Boo-Boo's room.
Jason Smith (02:55:15):
Fairly and accurately depict the photograph that was displayed in your forensic interview on 2/18/22?
Julie Ozier (02:55:21):
Yes.
Jason Smith (02:55:21):
And it would assist you in your testimony today?
Julie Ozier (02:55:23):
Yes.
Jason Smith (02:55:23):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 89.
Your Honor (02:55:25):
Any objection?
Luther Johnson Britt III (02:55:27):
No, sir.
Your Honor (02:55:28):
State's 89 will be admitted into evidence.
Jason Smith (02:55:30):
Permission to publish 87, 88, and 89?
Your Honor (02:55:33):
You may.
Jason Smith (02:55:34):
So Ms. Ozier, we're looking at State's Exhibit 87. Is that correct?
Julie Ozier (02:55:40):
Correct.
Jason Smith (02:55:41):
And there are a number of markings on this photograph, and those could be seen, you and Savannah marking them on the video that we just watched, correct?
Julie Ozier (02:55:51):
Yes, correct.
Jason Smith (02:55:52):
And may I have the witness step down, Judge?
Your Honor (02:55:55):
Ma'am, you may step down.
Jason Smith (02:55:56):
Ms. Ozier, you can either stand at the Elmo or you can stand at the TV, which is easier for you. Can you point to where Savannah said that she was sleeping on the night that Paitin was found by her grandmother?
Julie Ozier (02:56:22):
This area.
Jason Smith (02:56:23):
And where does-
Speaker 6 (02:56:24):
I'm sorry, excuse me.
Julie Ozier (02:56:26):
This area.
Jason Smith (02:56:27):
Will the record reflect that pointing to the corner of the L-shaped sofa, Judge? Then where did she draw out or circle where Paitin was sleeping the night of?
Julie Ozier (02:56:43):
Right here.
Jason Smith (02:56:48):
Okay. And then on the video she says that she saw Uncle Boo-Boo walking from the sofa to his bedroom. Could you show the jury where she was pointing at where she saw Uncle Boo-Boo walking to and from?
Julie Ozier (02:56:59):
This line right here.
Jason Smith (02:57:04):
And then you said, or she said in the interview that Uncle Boo-Boo was sleeping in her bedroom. Did she indicate to you where his bedroom was?
Julie Ozier (02:57:13):
Back here. This area, I believe.
Jason Smith (02:57:16):
All right. Now stay up there, please. I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 88. What is 88?
Julie Ozier (02:57:28):
She said that... This is a photograph that we used in the interview that she said was her room, but she said that Uncle Boo-Boo was sleeping there the night Pait died.
Jason Smith (02:57:37):
Now, there's markings on the top of this State's Exhibit 88, looks like words, letters and words. Can you show the jury the top of the page and explain what those words are and who made this?
Julie Ozier (02:57:52):
This is S, apostrophe S, my shorthand for Savannah's. And then this says Uncle Boo-Boo's slept here. That was my handwriting.
Jason Smith (02:58:00):
Thank you. Then I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 89. Do you recognize 89?
Julie Ozier (02:58:07):
Yes.
Jason Smith (02:58:08):
And what is 89?
Julie Ozier (02:58:09):
89, she told me was Uncle Boo-Boo's room.
Jason Smith (02:58:12):
And there's markings also on the top of State's Exhibit 89. What are those markings?
Julie Ozier (02:58:18):
My handwriting where I wrote Uncle Boo-Boo's room when she labeled that picture.
Jason Smith (02:58:23):
Thank you. If you can return to the witness stand. Ms. Ozier, what were your observations about Savannah on 2/18/22 when you conducted your forensic interview?
Julie Ozier (02:58:46):
She was older, better able, at least initially to do narratives, could still notice some potential developmental delay. She seemed a little more immature than maybe a child of her age, and her speech was somewhat difficult to understand at times.
Jason Smith (02:59:10):
Now, based upon your training, your observations, and experience dealing with trauma, well, sexual abuse, physical abuse, and trauma in children, are there perpetrators, or are the perpetrators of child sexual abuse, usually, in your experience, training and observation, family members or someone in a position of trust or authority?
Luther Johnson Britt III (02:59:38):
Objection.
Your Honor (02:59:39):
Overruled.
Julie Ozier (02:59:41):
Yes. Perpetrators of child sexual abuse are almost always known and trusted to the child and often even the family. They may be a family member or someone that the family trusts as a position of authority over the child.
Jason Smith (02:59:56):
But that doesn't rule out there have been strangers that have abused children?
Julie Ozier (03:00:00):
Correct. There has been. That is just by far the minority.
Jason Smith (03:00:08):
And tell the jury, based upon your observations, training and experience, do victims of trauma often disclose or not disclose everything that's happened, especially when the perpetrator is someone who is in a position of trust and authority?
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:00:20):
Objection.
Your Honor (03:00:21):
Overruled.
Julie Ozier (03:00:22):
Yes. When a child experiences trauma, it impacts how their memories work. And so disclosure is typically a process. It's not usually a single time event. It's not unusual for there to be a trickling of information that comes out over time. When something really upsetting happens to a child or to anyone, the capacity for our brain to organize and file memories is disrupted. And so if we think about a filing cabinet with files and papers in it, day-to-day life, we go through, memories are collected in there, they get neatly filed away at night and we're better able to
retrieve them. When there's a highly stressful event, a traumatic event, that process is disrupted. It's like someone took the file papers and just kind of threw them all over the place. And so it takes time sometimes to get things more organized so that they can better recall.
(03:01:29)
The other thing that happens is when a child experiences trauma, they may have mental health, psychological reactions to that trauma. And one of the groups of that is called avoidance. So one of the symptom clusters of PTSD and post-traumatic stress disorder is avoidance. And avoidance is our brain's way to try to protect ourselves. And so we don't want to think about something that is disruptive, scary, frightening, and upsetting. And so the symptoms of avoidance are not wanting to be around people or places that remind us of it, avoiding those situations, not wanting to think about it or have feelings about it. So not wanting to do the memory searches to recall the memories related to that. And so over time, as maybe those trauma symptoms subside through either just time or treatment, that avoidance may decrease.
Jason Smith (03:02:24):
And based upon your observations, training, and experience in general terms, is there a typical reaction or demeanor when someone is describing a traumatic event?
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:02:33):
Objection.
Your Honor (03:02:34):
Overruled.
Julie Ozier (03:02:36):
No. In the thousands of children I've interviewed, I've seen just about everything under the sun. There is no set reaction. Some children are upset and cry. Some children are laugh or giggling. Some children put their head down. Some children try to change the subject a lot. Some children hide underneath the table. Some run circles around the room or a mixture of all those things.
Jason Smith (03:03:01):
All right. Thank you, Ms. Ozier. I do not have any further questions at this time on direct, Judge, but I would ask that... Well, may we approach, Judge?
Your Honor (03:03:50):
You may. Members of the jury, to accommodate Ms. Ozier, we're going to continue with cross-examination and then as soon as the witness has concluded, then we'll take our lunch break at that time. Mr. Britt?
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:04:05):
Good afternoon, Ms. Ozier.
Julie Ozier (03:04:06):
Good afternoon.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:04:12):
Tell me more about how the Carousel Clinic is set up.
Julie Ozier (03:04:19):
Like the physical structure or-
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:04:22):
Practice.
Julie Ozier (03:04:23):
The process?
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:04:24):
Practices.
Julie Ozier (03:04:25):
Practices, yes. So the Carousel Center receives referrals from investigators, law enforcement and/or [inaudible 03:04:33] child protection services, when there is a concern that a child may have experienced abuse or maltreatment. And so the child is then brought in by a caregiver or a child medical evaluation that I talked about earlier that includes the forensic interview and the medical exam. In that process, once they come in, we give the child and family, a caregiver a tour. We meet briefly with the referring parties to get information about the nature of the concerns. The child is interviewed. While the interviewer is interviewing the child, typically the medical provider is getting medical history from the caregiver. And then after the interview, the interviewer updates the medical provider on what the child shared in the interview, and then the medical exam is conducted by the medical provider.
(03:05:32)
And then the team meets together again to make any recommendations for that child's health or wellbeing. And then we meet with the caregiver and share the recommendations with them, and then the child and the caregiver leave. We also do therapy services at the center, so children come into the center and see therapists there.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:05:55):
Who makes up the team?
Julie Ozier (03:05:57):
The team is the multidisciplinary team, is the forensic interviewer, the medical provider, the referring investigator, or investigators. So a detective, a CPS, Child Protective Services social worker. That's who's involved in the team.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:06:16):
So was Detective Leatherwood the referring party?
Julie Ozier (03:06:19):
I would have to look back at the paperwork. I don't know who actually completed the official referral, whether it was the detective or the Child Protective Services social worker.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:06:27):
Was Detective Leatherwood part of the team?
Julie Ozier (03:06:30):
Yes.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:06:31):
When you say Child Protective Services, that's from DSS?
Julie Ozier (03:06:34):
Correct.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:06:38):
And who was the medical doctor?
Julie Ozier (03:06:40):
In this case it was Mary Beth Kohler. She's the pediatric nurse practitioner.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:06:46):
And you were part of the team?
Julie Ozier (03:06:48):
Yes.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:06:48):
Anyone else?
Julie Ozier (03:06:51):
I would have to... If I could refer to the documents that were submitted, the CME summary form has signatures of who was present.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:07:01):
And the medical exam that takes place on November the 15th of 2017, did Savannah undergo a medical exam?
Julie Ozier (03:07:21):
She did.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:07:25):
And did she undergo another medical exam in January?
Julie Ozier (03:07:29):
I don't believe she did, but I believe Mary Beth was part of the team then.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:07:34):
And did she undergo another medical exam in 2022?
Julie Ozier (03:07:39):
She did not.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:07:45):
What information had been provided to you about the circumstances of this case prior to your meeting with Savannah?
Julie Ozier (03:07:54):
To the best of my recollection, I was informed that Paitin was in the hospital, that there was concerns for sexual assault, and strangulation, that Savannah lived with her grandparents and her uncle. I believe we were also informed that she might have some developmental delays.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:08:17):
You were provided with photographs?
Julie Ozier (03:08:20):
I don't believe I was until the 2018 interview that I had the photo of the couch.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:08:28):
You had the photo of the living room?
Julie Ozier (03:08:30):
Yes.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:08:31):
Did you have that on November 15?
Julie Ozier (03:08:33):
I don't recall if I did.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:08:39):
And did you have any other photographs at that point?
Julie Ozier (03:08:44):
I don't recall any photographs at that point.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:09:02):
And in the first interview... Well, part of what your interview technique is designed to do is to get a disclosure.
Julie Ozier (03:09:15):
It's to get as accurate possible report of the child of their experiences.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:09:24):
Excuse me. So, Savannah did not disclose anything on November 15?
Julie Ozier (03:09:33):
She did not disclose any sexual abuse that she... She did not disclose that she experienced any abuse.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:09:42):
She did not disclose that she suffered trauma on November 15?
Julie Ozier (03:09:47):
Well, she described waking up and seeing her sister's eyes rolling back in her head, and so potentially witnessing the death of her sister could be considered traumatic.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:09:58):
But in terms of what had happened to Paitin at that point, Savannah was not able to tell you?
Julie Ozier (03:10:07):
She did not know what happened to Paitin.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:10:19):
Is it normal, the course of conduct, to interview a child approximately 24 to 48 hours after they've experienced trauma?
Julie Ozier (03:10:33):
At times, yes.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:10:36):
What makes it important to do it at that point?
Julie Ozier (03:10:40):
Well, there's a balance that we're trying to achieve. We want as soon as possible, but we also... It's important for the child to have had some sleep cycles to start to develop some sense of normalcy and safety, and so we're usually trying to mitigate that.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:11:00):
Following the November 15th interview with Savannah, what recommended therapy was she given?
Julie Ozier (03:11:12):
I believe it was either TF-CBT or traumatic grief focused TF-CBT. I think it was... I would have to look at my paper to see what we wrote there.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:11:21):
And is that therapy provided at the Carousel Clinic or somewhere else?
Julie Ozier (03:11:27):
It's provided all over the place. We do have therapists there that provide trauma-focused CBT.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:11:33):
And as part of your evaluation of Savannah, did you receive copies of notes or records from the therapy sessions?
Julie Ozier (03:11:45):
No, I did not.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:11:54):
And so on January 24th, a little more than a month later, you interviewed Savannah for a second time?
Julie Ozier (03:12:08):
Correct.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:12:09):
Was there a medical exam on that occasion?
Julie Ozier (03:12:11):
I don't believe so.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:12:19):
Okay. And in the second interview, she doesn't disclose anything more about what happened to Paitin other than she went to her nana's room and her papa's bedroom, and said something was wrong with Paitin, and she was told to go back to bed?
Julie Ozier (03:12:39):
Correct. Which I think was consistent with her initial interview.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:12:44):
And she told you that she went into the living room and turned on the TV?
Julie Ozier (03:12:49):
Yes.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:12:53):
She didn't say anything to you about what Paitin was doing at that point on the sofa, whether she was sleeping, whether she was seizing?
Julie Ozier (03:13:06):
I don't recall which interview she said which in which order. I mean, to the best of my recollection in the second interview, she also described seeing Paitin either with her eyes rolling back, something along those lines.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:13:27):
She told you that her grandmother came in and yelled, "Oh my God."
Julie Ozier (03:13:32):
Correct.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:13:34):
And that then her papa came in and that Uncle Boo-Boo who had been asleep in his room came in?
Julie Ozier (03:13:42):
Correct.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:13:51):
Now, the questions that you ask during the course of an interview, you've been trained on the type of questions to ask?
Julie Ozier (03:14:02):
Yes.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:14:06):
And are you supposed to ask the child an open-ended question, or one that restricts the answer to yes or no?
Julie Ozier (03:14:14):
There are multiple forms of questions that we use in forensic interviewing. We think of it as a funnel. And so at the top of the funnel is an open narrative prompt, "Tell me everything you remember about." The next level down the funnel is an open focus question. Those are often WH questions. Where were you? Who was there? What happened? Those kinds of things. The next level is choice questions, living room, bedroom or someplace else, and the lowest level is close-ended questions, yes or no. We use all of those questions in forensic interviews, but we want to try as much as possible to stay at the top, or towards the top half of the funnel in the narrative prompt or the open focus, but we do sometimes need to use choice or yes/no questions, particularly based on the child's age and development. Some children struggle with wide open narrative prompts and need more scaffolding with the open focus questions.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:15:15):
Do you ask questions that prompt a certain answer?
Julie Ozier (03:15:22):
I may offer them a choice, but I don't lead them to a specific answer.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:15:26):
For example, if you ask her, "Did anyone say anything to you about it?" Or, "Did anyone do anything to you?" For example, in those types of questions, she responded that she didn't want to talk about it because it made her sad, and she said emphatically, "No, no one had hurt her." Is that correct?
Julie Ozier (03:15:57):
Are you asking me if she said those things, or are you asking about the question kind of-
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:16:02):
I'm asking if she said those things.
Julie Ozier (03:16:04):
To the best of my recollection.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:16:07):
Now, between the first and second interview, had the team met?
Julie Ozier (03:16:15):
Just before the second interview, we would've had another check-in.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:16:20):
And is a strategy developed on how you want to approach the next interview?
Julie Ozier (03:16:25):
In that particular case, we did make a decision to share with Savannah that her sister had died due to concerns that someone had hurt her.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:16:38):
Well, what made you think she wasn't aware in January that her sister had died?
Julie Ozier (03:16:45):
That's what I was talk... I'm sorry. I meant in terms of that she died because someone hurt her.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:17:07):
And again, in the second interview, she didn't identify anyone, or anything that had happened to Paitin?
Julie Ozier (03:17:14):
Correct.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:17:19):
And following the second interview in January of 2018, did you have any appointments set up for her to come in and talk?
Julie Ozier (03:17:32):
I'm sorry, say that again?
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:17:34):
Did Savannah have appointments to follow up with you following the January 2018 interview?
Julie Ozier (03:17:46):
No.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:17:46):
Was she then recommended to go into therapy?
Julie Ozier (03:17:49):
Yes.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:17:49):
Do you know if she went in-
Julie Ozier (03:17:52):
And I don't remember if it was to continue therapy. Again, those documents could be helpful in my testimony.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:17:56):
To your knowledge, did she go to therapy?
Julie Ozier (03:18:02):
To my knowledge, she did, yes.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:18:05):
Where would that have been?
Julie Ozier (03:18:06):
I believe she initially was seeing a therapist at the Carousel Center, Alexandra, I'm older now, it was something different then. And then she also saw Veronica Crawley, another trauma-focused CBT therapist.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:18:21):
And after the second interview, did the team then meet again to determine what strategy or course to follow?
Julie Ozier (03:18:30):
At the conclusion of the interview, we make recommendations if there are any service recommendations needed. I don't make case recommendations, but I make mental health recommendations.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:18:45):
And you did not see her again in 2018?
Julie Ozier (03:18:51):
I don't know the exact date that she... I know that, to the best of my recollection, she saw a therapist that was housed in the Carousel Center, but I did not have any interviews or conversations with her. I may have seen her in a hallway or something, but I did not have any substantial interactions with her.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:19:13):
Are there records that exist noting those interviews and noting those sessions?
Julie Ozier (03:19:19):
Presumably, Carousel Center keeps therapy records.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:19:27):
And in 2019, there was no plan for you to see Paitin again, excuse me, Savannah again?
Julie Ozier (03:19:41):
No, not to my knowledge.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:19:42):
In 2020?
Julie Ozier (03:19:42):
Not to my knowledge.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:19:43):
'21?
Julie Ozier (03:19:43):
Not to my knowledge.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:19:45):
Who made the appointment for her to see you in 2022?
Julie Ozier (03:19:49):
One of the investigators would have made that referral based on some concern for additional information.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:19:56):
Would that have been Detective Short?
Julie Ozier (03:20:00):
I believe he was the detective at the time.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:20:03):
Why was it necessary to make another referral?
Julie Ozier (03:20:08):
Sometimes there's a-
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:20:10):
If you know, why was it necessary to make another referral?
Julie Ozier (03:20:13):
I don't know that I can speak specifically for this, but I can speak in general terms. We get requests to do what we would call a follow-up interview months, maybe even years after a child has had a forensic interview and medical exam. If new or additional information has come up, then sometimes the investigators will reach back out for a follow-up forensic interview. So presumably that's what happened in this case.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:20:45):
And was Paitin accompanied by anyone to the Carousel Center, clinic?
Julie Ozier (03:20:51):
Which?
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:20:52):
Which? At any time.
Julie Ozier (03:20:54):
I mean, generally somebody brings her there.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:20:56):
Do you know who brought her on February the 18th, 2022?
Julie Ozier (03:21:02):
I think she referenced Aunt Re-Re.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:21:07):
And to your knowledge, is that the person who had custody of her?
Julie Ozier (03:21:11):
To the best of my knowledge, but I really don't... I don't know.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:21:15):
Did you have any conversation with her aunt?
Julie Ozier (03:21:17):
I probably would've spoken briefly with her just to say hello and find out if there was anything special needs-wise that I needed to know about, but I don't usually get much information from the caregivers beforehand.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:21:36):
And was Detective Short present at the Carousel Center?
Julie Ozier (03:21:40):
I think he was virtually present because we were still kind of in the post-COVID era.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:21:46):
These interviews, are the members of the team able to observe them as they're taking place?
Julie Ozier (03:21:50):
Yes.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:21:52):
So, it's a closed-circuit TV connection?
Julie Ozier (03:21:55):
Yes.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:21:56):
Do the interviewers prompt questions to you to ask or to follow up on?
Julie Ozier (03:22:01):
Usually, when there's a point in time the interviews where I take a break so the child can have a break, get a snack, and that is a time that I check in with the team to see if there's anything else that they want clarity on.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:22:14):
So, in three years between, almost four years in between the 2018 interview and the 2022 interview, you went from a child who didn't want to talk about what happened to her sister to suddenly, and not necessarily suddenly, but in February of 2022, she just comes right out and says, "I saw Uncle Boo-Boo."
Julie Ozier (03:22:51):
Well, there was still a little bit of avoidance, but it did not seem to be as significant as it was in prior.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:22:57):
And that's all she said, "I saw Uncle Boo-Boo standing there."
Julie Ozier (03:23:01):
And walking away from where Paitin was, she body-typed his night clothes.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:23:06):
She didn't say, "I saw Uncle Boo-Boo doing A, B, C to Paitin."
Julie Ozier (03:23:08):
No, she did not say that she saw him doing anything.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:23:14):
She did not tell you that she was awakened by noises, crying, screams, anything?
Julie Ozier (03:23:24):
Correct.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:23:27):
And it's always simply been, "I woke up."
Julie Ozier (03:23:30):
Correct.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:23:30):
She can't tell you what caused her to wake up?
Julie Ozier (03:23:35):
I think all of those times she said she just woke up.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:23:41):
And yet when she goes to her grandmother and grandfather to say something's wrong with Paitin, they basically ignore her, don't they?
Julie Ozier (03:23:56):
Well, they say, "Go on back to bed."
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:24:19):
And even when she told you, "Nana came in and screamed, then Papa came in, Boo Boo came out of his room where he had been sleeping?"
Speaker 7 (03:24:33):
I believe that's what she said.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:24:43):
And because of her age, she can't really give you a sequence of the amount of time that had passed between when she may have ... She says she saw David standing there and then walking back to his room. And then when she got off the sofa and went to her grandparents' room to tell him something was wrong with Peyton.
Speaker 7 (03:25:02):
Yeah. Children are not good reporters of time generally.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:25:05):
All she can tell you is it was dark?
Speaker 7 (03:25:08):
Yes. And that the kitchen light was on.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:25:44):
And she doesn't tell you that when she sees David walking from where he was standing by the sofa back to his room, that he has anything in his hands?
Speaker 7 (03:25:53):
She did not report him having anything in his hands.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:25:58):
She didn't tell you that she saw something wrapped around Peyton's neck?
Speaker 7 (03:26:03):
Correct.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:26:06):
She didn't tell you that she saw David standing over Peyton pulling on something around her neck?
Speaker 7 (03:26:13):
Correct.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:26:20):
She didn't tell you that she was awakened because Peyton was gagging or trying to catch her breath?
Speaker 7 (03:26:34):
She did not say anything like that.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:26:35):
And she does not or did not and could not tell you how long David had been there, how long it was before he walked back to his room?
Speaker 7 (03:26:45):
Correct. She did not make any reports about that.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:26:47):
And was there any type of plan to bring Savannah back for a fourth interview?
Speaker 7 (03:27:04):
There was not.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:27:05):
That was not a recommendation?
Speaker 7 (03:27:07):
No, not to my knowledge.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:27:17):
Did you ask her where her uncle, if she knew where her Uncle Boo Boo was at that time?
Speaker 7 (03:27:24):
Like in ...
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:27:25):
In 2022?
Speaker 7 (03:27:28):
Like if she knew where he was?
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:27:29):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (03:27:29):
I did not ask her.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:27:31):
Had you been made aware of where he was?
Speaker 7 (03:27:35):
I have no recollection.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:27:40):
And so following this interview, did the team meet to confer about what she had said?
Speaker 7 (03:27:47):
We would've debriefed afterwards and again, would've made any recommendations related to mental health for her.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:27:55):
Thank you. I don't have any other questions.
Judge (03:27:57):
Redirect?
Speaker 8 (03:27:58):
No, Your Honor.
Judge (03:27:59):
Is this witness subject to recall?
Speaker 8 (03:28:00):
No, Judge.
Judge (03:28:02):
On behalf of the defense?
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:28:04):
No, sir.
Judge (03:28:04):
And ma'am, you're released from your obligations of your subpoena. You-
Speaker 7 (03:28:07):
Thank you.
Judge (03:28:07):
... Free to go. You're very welcome.
Speaker 7 (03:28:08):
[inaudible 03:28:12].
Speaker 9 (03:28:17):
Please watch your step.
Judge (03:28:26):
All right members of the jury, go ahead and close up your notebooks. We're going to break for lunch now. As you are out at lunch, remember, do not have any conversation amongst yourselves regarding this case. Do not allow anyone else to discuss this case in your presence. Do not discuss this case with anyone else, including friends, family members, or coworkers. Do not have any contact with any of the parties, attorneys, or witnesses. Do not conduct your own independent investigation and do not post online on any social media sites. We'll go ahead and excuse you and have you return at 2:30.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:29:06):
Thank you, Your Honor.
Speaker 9 (03:29:06):
[Inaudible 03:29:13].
Judge (03:29:50):
All right. Let the record reflect that the jury has exited the courtroom. One of them missing a jury tag? Okay.
(03:30:20)
Thank you. We had one bench conference. State indicated that the witness, Ms. Osier, was caring for her elderly relative and wished to conclude her testimony prior to breaking for lunch. So I allowed that accommodation. The gentleman that I had excused from the courtroom, do we know his name? He's the gentleman in the pink shirt, he's been sitting there in the back, very back.
Speaker 8 (03:30:56):
Judge, the state doesn't know who he is. He's been here for a few days-
Judge (03:31:00):
I think he's been here for pretty much-
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:31:02):
He's been here every day.
Judge (03:31:02):
Yeah, every day that we've had-
Speaker 8 (03:31:05):
He's sitting with the female.
Judge (03:31:07):
Yeah, he's been sitting with the female who wasn't there today.
Speaker 10 (03:31:10):
This is all on the record?
Judge (03:31:10):
Yes.
Speaker 10 (03:31:10):
Okay. [inaudible 03:31:14].
Judge (03:31:13):
Sorry.
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:31:14):
I apologize.
Judge (03:31:16):
Nobody knows?
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:31:18):
I do not know who he is.
Speaker 8 (03:31:24):
I do not know who he is, Judge.
Judge (03:31:24):
Okay. All right. Anything we need to discuss on behalf of the defense?
Luther Johnson Britt III (03:31:27):
No, sir.
Judge (03:31:27):
The state?
Speaker 8 (03:31:30):
No, Judge.
Judge (03:31:31):
All right. We'll be in recess until 2:30.
Speaker 9 (03:31:34):
Court will be in recess ...
Speaker 11 (03:58:00):
(silence)
Speaker 13 (03:58:00):
... record that.
Judge (05:05:19):
We didn't ever find out who that individual was, wasn't around.
Speaker 12 (05:05:23):
No, Your Honor.
Judge (05:05:23):
Okay.
(05:05:25)
Thank you, sir.
Speaker 12 (05:05:26):
We'll review on the camera, but I don't think I have any good view of him.
Judge (05:05:29):
That's fine. Just for the record, I was informed by the bailiff that two of the jurors noticed an individual man with a pink shirt who had been staring at them, not just today, but for two days. He had been parking his car near their vehicles and they felt very uncomfortable. When the jury came in after our morning break, I did notice a man with a pink shirt and I noticed that he was ...
Judge (05:06:00):
This, a man with a pink shirt, and I noticed that he was very interested in seeing the jury as they came in and asking everybody here. He doesn't seem to be a party or a witness that is pertinent to this case. So I've asked the bailiffs that he remain restricted from entering the courthouse or the courthouse grounds while the trial is in session. Is there anything that we need to discuss on behalf of the state?
Bailiff (05:06:34):
No, Your Honor.
Judge (05:06:35):
Behalf of the defense? All right. Let's bring our jury in.
Bailiff (05:06:39):
Bring the jury.
Judge (05:07:24):
Thank you, sir. Let the record reflect that the jury has reentered the courtroom. The state, you may call your next witness.
Prosecutor (05:07:29):
The state calls Mary Beth Barna.
Judge (05:07:32):
All right ma'am, if you can make your way around here to the witness stand please. Ma'am, if you can come up. If you can go ahead and place your left hand on the Bible. Raise your right hand. The clerk will swear you in.
Court clerk (05:07:53):
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give in court today will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mary Beth Barna (05:07:59):
I do.
Court clerk (05:07:59):
Thank you. You may be seated.
Judge (05:08:06):
I'm going to ask that you get as close to that microphone as you can. And the closer you are, the better it will pick you up. Ma'am, as you testify, please make sure to speak loudly and clearly into the microphone. Please make sure all of your answers are out loud. We can't have any head shakes or nods. Everything has to be yes or no. And please wait for the attorney to be done asking their question before you give a response. Can you do that?
Mary Beth Barna (05:08:29):
Yes, sir.
Judge (05:08:29):
All right. Thank you, you may proceed.
Prosecutor (05:08:31):
Thank you, Judge. Can you say your name and spell it for Madam Court Reporter?
Mary Beth Barna (05:08:34):
Yes. My name is Mary Beth Barna, B-A-R-N-A.
Prosecutor (05:08:39):
And Ms. Barna, what do you do?
Mary Beth Barna (05:08:41):
I am a pediatric nurse practitioner at Carousel Center.
Prosecutor (05:08:45):
And how long have you been a pediatric nurse practitioner?
Mary Beth Barna (05:08:49):
This is my 14th year.
Prosecutor (05:08:52):
Can you tell the jury about your education?
Mary Beth Barna (05:08:55):
Yes. Prior to becoming a nurse practitioner, I was a registered nurse for about 30 years, and then I went back to school and became a pediatric nurse practitioner. I've only ever taken care of children my entire career. Once I became a peds nurse practitioner, I worked in primary care for five years and at the Carousel Center for the last 14.
Prosecutor (05:09:17):
And are you licensed in North Carolina?
Mary Beth Barna (05:09:21):
I am.
Prosecutor (05:09:22):
How long?
Mary Beth Barna (05:09:24):
As an RN, I'm licensed in North Carolina for 26 years. I'm licensed as a pediatric nurse practitioner for the last 14. In all states, you have to remain a registered nurse. If you are a pediatric nurse practitioner or any nurse practitioner, you must remain an RN, so you must keep up with all of the requirements of maintaining that licensure.
Prosecutor (05:09:48):
And Ms. Barna, you touched on this a little bit, but what is your specialty?
Mary Beth Barna (05:09:52):
I have been... Well, my first specialty is pediatrics. I've only ever worked in pediatrics my entire career. My second specialty is child abuse pediatrics. That's what I've been doing for the last 14 years.
Prosecutor (05:10:04):
And what does child abuse pediatrics encompass?
Mary Beth Barna (05:10:07):
So what we consider child abuse or child maltreatment encompasses sexual abuse of children, physical abuse of children, emotional abuse of children, exposure to substances, and exposure to violence and neglect. So those are all the things that I work with. I've worked around them or with them throughout my entire career, but now it's very specific to that area. So child maltreatment is my area.
Prosecutor (05:10:36):
And how many children have you treated for some kind of trauma?
Mary Beth Barna (05:10:40):
At Carousel or in my entire career?
Prosecutor (05:10:42):
Well, let's start with Carousel.
Mary Beth Barna (05:10:43):
So at Carousel, I've seen over 2000 children.
Prosecutor (05:10:46):
What about your career? Way more than that.
Mary Beth Barna (05:10:48):
Thousands of children. Thousands of children.
Prosecutor (05:10:51):
Have you ever conducted any trainings in the field of child abuse and neglect?
Mary Beth Barna (05:10:55):
Yes. In order to become rostered in the state of North Carolina, we have to go through UNC Chapel Hill and get rostered. We do a 40 hour to 60 hour didactic, meaning the education piece, and then we have to watch a certain amount of child medical evaluations. That's the program in North Carolina. I was actually lucky enough that I got to observe and assist at 60 child medical evaluations before I'd started doing my own.
Prosecutor (05:11:26):
Ms. Barna, what are your job responsibilities at the Carousel Center?
Mary Beth Barna (05:11:30):
I am a child medical evaluation provider, so I'm a medical provider, but I'm also the supervisor of the other medical providers, the other nurse practitioners I work with.
Prosecutor (05:11:42):
And you've talked about child medical examinations. You engage in those at the Carousel Center?
Mary Beth Barna (05:11:50):
Yes. And it's evaluations, so an examination... So for my purposes, an examination is a head to toe physical examination and history. The evaluation is also a more extensive history and an exam.
Prosecutor (05:12:04):
And child medical evaluations, did you receive training for those?
Mary Beth Barna (05:12:08):
That's what I become rostered in when I first started at Carousel. I also attend at least two one-week symposiums every year in child abuse to find out what is new in child abuse or what we need to be learning more about, things that we didn't know about before. So I do that. I also have to maintain a pediatric nurse practitioner certification, and so I also have to maintain general pediatrics and a certain amount, 20 hours every five years of it has to be pharmacology, even though we generally don't write prescriptions at Carousel.
Prosecutor (05:12:48):
And as a child medical evaluation, do y'all abbreviate that CME?
Mary Beth Barna (05:12:51):
Yes.
Prosecutor (05:12:53):
And how many CMEs would you say you've performed?
Mary Beth Barna (05:12:56):
Over 2,000 at Carousel. And I'm sorry, I also worked while working at Carousel, I worked also at Onslow CAC, so I probably did a couple of hundred CMEs there.
Prosecutor (05:13:13):
And Ms. Barna, have you ever testified as an expert in the field of nursing and pediatrics with a special focus on child abuse?
Mary Beth Barna (05:13:20):
I have.
Prosecutor (05:13:21):
About how many times?
Mary Beth Barna (05:13:22):
56 times in the last 14 years, and that's in 5 counties.
Prosecutor (05:14:00):
May I approach?
Mary Beth Barna (05:14:00):
You may.
Prosecutor (05:14:00):
Ms. Barna, I'm showing you what I've marked as State's 90, which is a document. What is that document?
Mary Beth Barna (05:14:06):
This is my CV.
Prosecutor (05:14:07):
And does that accurately reflect all of your training and experience and education?
Mary Beth Barna (05:14:15):
It does.
Prosecutor (05:14:16):
And any changes, modifications to it?
Mary Beth Barna (05:14:19):
Well, except for my name previously, Ms. Kohler, and it is now Barna.
Prosecutor (05:14:24):
And Judge, State would move to enter State's 90 into evidence.
Judge (05:14:27):
Any objection?
Defense attorney (05:14:27):
No, sir.
Judge (05:14:27):
State's Exhibit 90 will be admitted into evidence.
Prosecutor (05:14:34):
Judge, at this time, I would tender Ms. Barna as an expert in the field of nursing pediatrics, child medical evaluations, and child sexual abuse and trauma.
Judge (05:14:52):
Nursing pediatrics, child medical evaluations and...
Prosecutor (05:14:58):
Child sexual abuse and trauma.
Judge (05:15:07):
Any objection?
Defense attorney (05:15:08):
No, sir.
Judge (05:15:10):
The witness will be qualified as an expert in the field of nursing pediatrics, child medical evaluations, and child sexual abuse and trauma.
Prosecutor (05:15:19):
Thank you, Judge. Ms. Barna, Ms. Julie Ozier already testified about child medical evaluations, but can you briefly talk about the two parts of the CME?
Mary Beth Barna (05:15:33):
Yes. Carousel Center is a child advocacy center. We are nationally certified, nationally accredited in order to provide child medical evaluations for children with concerns of abuse or neglect, including the things I said, sexual abuse, physical abuse, neglect, exposure to violence, or exposure to substances. And we get called from either law enforcement or DSS or both, and we schedule a child medical evaluation. We do what's considered a brief overview of what the concerns for the child are, and then we do... They go in for a forensic interview, which is part of my history. So everybody there gives me history. The DSS person gives me history. The law enforcement gives me history. The child's interview gives me history. If there is a non-offending parent, I get history from them, and then I do a medical exam and I do a directed history with the child regardless of their age. If they're able to talk, I'm able to ask them some questions. Then I do a head to toe exam and I write up the report.
Prosecutor (05:16:38):
Ms. Barna, what's the main purpose of the CME?
Mary Beth Barna (05:16:41):
To make sure children are healthy and safe.
Prosecutor (05:16:47):
Can you describe the environment of where you conduct your exam?
Mary Beth Barna (05:16:52):
Sure. We have a child-friendly forensic interview room, and immediately down the hall from there is the medical exam room. It looks just like any other pediatric office medical exam room. Although we have blankets, we have a child-friendly atmosphere. It's painted child-friendly. We have a giraffe for a scale. We have other things that they can use. I generally use bubbles because almost every child likes bubbles. We have a big camera called the Cortexflo. It's a very specific type of camera, and so the child can see themselves. That's the first thing I do is make sure that they can see themselves when they walk in the door. They go, "Oh, that's me."
Prosecutor (05:17:37):
And Ms. Barna, is it regular practice for the forensic interviewer to communicate with you after their forensic interview and prior to your examination?
Mary Beth Barna (05:17:47):
Yes. In general, we are lucky enough at Carousel to have forensic interviewers who are also therapists in their own rights. So they are like a clinician. They are clinicians. So the same way if I called for a consult, a neurological consult, I wouldn't watch the neurologist do the exam. I just call them and ask them what they found. The same, our forensic interviewers come back in because most often I'm talking to the non-offending caregiver or parent or trying to get records when the forensic interview is going on.
(05:18:20)
So they come back in, they give me an overview of what the child said, and that's where I go from there.
Prosecutor (05:18:26):
And is the child seen by you right after the interview?
Mary Beth Barna (05:18:28):
That is correct.
Prosecutor (05:18:31):
You said you do a head to toe examination. What other procedures do you engage in when you do a medical examination?
Mary Beth Barna (05:18:38):
Depending on the age of the child, I will ask questions for a child who, let's say is four, five, six. I'm asking them questions while we do things like, "Can you count to five? Can you tell me five colors in my room? Can you put your hands over your head? Do you know body parts?" And have them name them. I ask them those types of questions. I ask them in general, depending on the age of the child and the developmental level, I'll ask things like, "Who do you live with? What happens when you get in trouble?" We talk about private parts and rules around private parts. If the children don't know the rules, I give them the rules, and then I ask if anybody broke the rules, and then I do the head-to-toe exam.
Prosecutor (05:19:22):
And do you make a report of your examination?
Mary Beth Barna (05:19:25):
I do.
Prosecutor (05:19:27):
Ms. Barna, I want to take you to Savannah Fields. Did you treat her in November of 2017?
Mary Beth Barna (05:19:35):
I did.
Prosecutor (05:19:37):
And do you remember what day you treated her?
Mary Beth Barna (05:19:40):
The first time she was there was November 15th in 2017.
Prosecutor (05:19:46):
And what is your normal protocol, what you just described for the jury?
Mary Beth Barna (05:19:50):
That is correct.
Prosecutor (05:19:51):
And on that day, did you follow your normal protocol?
Mary Beth Barna (05:19:54):
We did not have a non-offending caregiver with the child. So when Savannah was seen, I got history from DSS, law enforcement, what she told Julie, and then I asked some questions. Meanwhile, I was also trying to contact her pediatrician because she was in foster care. So I did not have a whole conversation with any non-offending caregiver because there was no one there.
Prosecutor (05:20:19):
Did you speak with the forensic interviewer prior to examining Savannah?
Mary Beth Barna (05:20:22):
I did.
Prosecutor (05:20:23):
Who was that?
Mary Beth Barna (05:20:24):
Julie Ozier.
Prosecutor (05:20:26):
Who was present during the medical exam with Savannah?
Mary Beth Barna (05:20:30):
Initially, she is in there with me by herself, and then Kendra Kellerman, who was the other nurse practitioner in the building, came in when I do the anogenital exam.
Prosecutor (05:20:42):
Did you speak with Savannah prior to the medical exam?
Mary Beth Barna (05:20:44):
I did.
Prosecutor (05:20:46):
And why is it important for treatment and diagnosis to speak with Savannah prior to and during an examination?
Mary Beth Barna (05:20:52):
Talking to the child specifically, when you think about going to a primary care doctor, 9 times out of 10, it's the parent or caregiver who says, "My child has a fever, a sore throat, is vomiting," doing all these things, and we don't ever get to the point of we're asking the child what they feel like. So whether a child is being seen in primary care, if you think about it, they're being seen for flu-like symptoms, but they say, "Oh, by the way, I also banged my foot yesterday," and when they take off their shoe, their foot is all swollen up. So we're asking them to say what's important to them, what's their worries, what are they feeling, what's hurting them, if anything. So that's why we ask the question. We can also find out that a child is not feeling good. That's something that we had no concerns about, there are concerns about because a child says something else. We also know that when you're looking at concerns for abuse, one type of abuse does not negate the fact that there might be other types of abuse going on.
Prosecutor (05:21:50):
And what does Savannah say about why she was there?
Mary Beth Barna (05:21:54):
She said she was there... I'm going to look at my notes here for a second. Do you want me to say what Savannah said or what Julie told me first?
Prosecutor (05:22:23):
What did Savannah tell you specifically?
Mary Beth Barna (05:22:26):
She said she had no concerns. Again, due to the fact that Savannah had some developmental delays, I had no records, but in talking to her, you could see that she was developmentally delayed. Also, it's very common for children of a young age to give everything they can to the forensic interviewer. So they're trying to sit still, they're trying to answer questions. So by the time they get to the medical, Savannah couldn't tell me what grade she was in. She couldn't tell me more than three or four colors. So it was obvious she was distracted. She was avoidant. She didn't want to talk about anything. So I'm asking her things while I'm asking her, "Can she hop on one foot? Who do you live with?" She said she lived with her Papa, Nana, Uncle Booboo and Sissy, but her sissy was not there. She's at the doctor's. And then she reiterated what she said to Julie, which was, "I don't want to talk about it. It makes me sad."
Prosecutor (05:23:19):
How did she act?
Mary Beth Barna (05:23:22):
She closed off at that point in time, very avoidant, kind of guarded. She looked down. She didn't talk for a while. She kind of just was quiet. And then all of a sudden she was like, "Papa is my favorite," which is very typical of that age and development. It was not unexpected. Nothing that I saw with her was unexpected.
Prosecutor (05:23:43):
Did she make any other statements to you throughout the examination?
Mary Beth Barna (05:23:47):
Yes. She did say, I do ask what happens when you get in trouble and she said, "They beat my butt, Nana and Papa, with their hand, but not a lot. Sissy gets it more." And I said, "Why?" And she goes, "I don't get in trouble that much." And then she basically was like, "We're not talking anymore. I'm not answering any more questions."
Prosecutor (05:24:06):
Did she say anything else about her papa?
Mary Beth Barna (05:24:09):
She said Papa was her favorite because he was Black like her. Because when she said it, she said, "Papa's my favorite because he's Black." And I was like, "Black?" And she goes, "Like me, the color of me." And I was like, "Oh, okay." That was it.
Prosecutor (05:24:25):
Did you conduct your general physical examination of Savannah?
Mary Beth Barna (05:24:28):
I did.
Prosecutor (05:24:29):
Did you have any remarkable findings?
Mary Beth Barna (05:24:32):
Well, several. She had signs of a cold when we first saw her, loose congested cough. She also had a lot of silver caps on her teeth. We did her exam, again, why I had Kendra, the other nurse practitioner, come in. Whenever we have a finding in an anogenital exam, we have somebody else review it just because that's what we, in general, do. We want to make sure somebody else has seen it. And her exam showed what's called a septate hymen, which just means there was a amount of tissue when I looked at her anogenital exam, which is a non-traumatic exam where we're just looking, nothing is going inside of a child. When you look at hers, this is what you're looking at, and there was a piece of tissue going around it, which is called the septate hymen, and I had Kendra review it with me.
Prosecutor (05:25:24):
Is that unusual?
Mary Beth Barna (05:25:25):
No. Generally, when you're doing pediatrics, and I've done pediatrics for a very long time, you do that kind of exam on a child when they're first born. You do an anogenital exam on every child when they're first born. A lot of physicians, nurse practitioners don't do them once a child is out of diapers, so nobody's kind of looking for that. Generally, when we find a septate hymen or some other finding, it's a general aberration of abnormality. It's not anything to get too concerned about. A septate hymen generally will either break on its own or you will go and have it clipped by a surgeon. You go to sleep and somebody clips it, but it's generally found right around puberty.
Prosecutor (05:26:10):
And Ms. Barna, did you have any medical findings that indicated Savannah had been physically or sexually abused?
Mary Beth Barna (05:26:18):
No. She also did have what's considered turning in of one eye. It's called esotropia, and she had the light reflex. Anybody who's been to a doctor, they shine a light in your eyes. They're looking to see that your eyes have the same reflection of light in the same spot, both of your pupils, and Savannah did not have that. Hers were unequal, which generally goes along with esotropia or what's called strabismus, which is also an eye condition that needs to be addressed.
(05:26:53)
She also had features, what's called kind of dysmorphic features, which just means that she wasn't equal on both sides, kind of a flat bridge. When I finally got her record, she had been diagnosed with fetal alcohol syndrome, so all of that kind of matched with the same.
Prosecutor (05:27:17):
Were you aware that Savannah Fields came to the Carousel Center two other times, once in 2018 and once in 2022?
Mary Beth Barna (05:27:27):
Yes, I was. In 2018, I was there. It is very usual that a child, especially a child under the age of 10, will come back for a second, what we call the second session interview. That is for their health and safety. If they either though of something or somebody else had concerns, I am there in case there was an exposure to either concerns of abuse, she had other physical problems that she was concerned about or anything like that, I'm there for. If there was any findings or she said that she had been exposed or she had a disclosure of abuse, I would've done another exam on her. She did not have any of that during the second session. The third session, which was four years later, I knew that she had not been in contact, so I was in the building, but I was not part of it.
Prosecutor (05:28:23):
But you were available if she needed another medical examination?
Mary Beth Barna (05:28:25):
For the same thing, yes.
Prosecutor (05:28:29):
And Ms. Barna, can you explain to the jury just in general what fetal alcohol syndrome is?
Mary Beth Barna (05:28:34):
Fetal alcohol syndrome is a congenital condition that occurs if the mother is drinking during the pregnancy. There is unfortunately not any way of saying how much you can drink during a pregnancy. So if you had somebody who was binge-drinking the first six weeks, you could have it. Or if you have somebody who has alcoholism, they could have it also. So that condition, it happens when the fetus is developing. So there are several things that occur with it, one of which is cognitive delays. Actually, a lot of times it's growth retardation, meaning the child doesn't grow in the same way that anybody else would grow. And it's a lifelong thing. There's always going to be... She has an IEP, an individual education plan, so there's always going to be the need to give her assistance so that she can succeed in life.
Prosecutor (05:29:32):
Nothing further, Judge.
Judge (05:29:33):
Cross-examination?
Defense attorney (05:29:34):
Just briefly. Good afternoon.
Mary Beth Barna (05:29:40):
Good afternoon.
Defense attorney (05:29:40):
It's Barna?
Mary Beth Barna (05:29:43):
Yes, it is.
Defense attorney (05:29:43):
I apologize. I thought they were saying Barnes. I kept looking for you in my computer. When you met with Savannah, you made no findings involving injury, sexual trauma related to her?
Mary Beth Barna (05:30:02):
That is correct.
Defense attorney (05:30:25):
So prior to her coming there in November of 2017-
Mary Beth Barna (05:30:27):
Okay.
Defense attorney (05:30:28):
... that was February the 15th. When were the records gathered that were presented to you for purpose of developing the report?
Mary Beth Barna (05:30:43):
November? You mean November in 2017?
Defense attorney (05:30:44):
Yes, ma'am. Okay.
Mary Beth Barna (05:30:48):
I only made a notation that we requested the records and requested the records. I'm talking about her primary care records. I never got UNC records where she was supposedly being followed.
Defense attorney (05:31:05):
Okay. But in terms of the team that was put together, you said you collect their reports?
Mary Beth Barna (05:31:07):
I don't collect the reports. We do what's called a pregame. So they give me history the same way you would give history, anything else, why we're here, what are the concerns?
Defense attorney (05:31:18):
When did you get the reports? Did you get those before or after the physical exam?
Mary Beth Barna (05:31:24):
We're in the pregame before the physical exam.
Defense attorney (05:31:30):
And so do you recall when you received notice of Paitin's situation?
Mary Beth Barna (05:31:34):
I'm not sure I understand which situation you're talking about.
Defense attorney (05:31:35):
Paitin went to the hospital on the early morning of February the 13th, 2017. I mean, November, excuse me. November.
Mary Beth Barna (05:31:50):
You're talking about Paitin and not Savannah?
Defense attorney (05:31:55):
But Savannah was evaluated because of what happened to Paitin.
Mary Beth Barna (05:31:59):
So it's very common at Carousel to have either what's considered, what we call a collateral CME. We request them on every child who's in the household where there has been any concern for abuse or neglect or exposure to violence or exposure to substances.
Defense attorney (05:32:14):
When did you receive-
Mary Beth Barna (05:32:14):
That morning.
Defense attorney (05:32:14):
That morning.
Mary Beth Barna (05:32:19):
When we started the CME, they said, "This child's sister is in the hospital. There is concerns for strangulation and possible sexual assault, and we are doing testing for brain function."
Defense attorney (05:32:37):
Okay. So you had CPS?
Mary Beth Barna (05:32:39):
Yes.
Defense attorney (05:32:39):
The Sheriff's Department?
Mary Beth Barna (05:32:41):
Yes.
Defense attorney (05:32:44):
Ms...
Mary Beth Barna (05:32:47):
Julie Ozier.
Defense attorney (05:32:50):
Yes. And who else?
Mary Beth Barna (05:32:51):
Family advocate. Our team at Carousel is always a family advocate, a forensic interviewer, and a medical provider. That's the team that does every child medical evaluation.
Defense attorney (05:33:02):
What's the family advocate's role?
Mary Beth Barna (05:33:05):
Family advocate does what we call the door-to-door. They're the ones that call before the CME and help with the scheduling. They're the ones that get the first four pages of the referral, and they sit with the child while the child is waiting for anything. They also follow up with the family, the non-offending caregiver, and they follow up with that child through for however long as needed.
Defense attorney (05:33:34):
So she was seen on November the 15th, 2017. She was seen again in January of 2018?
Mary Beth Barna (05:33:41):
That is correct.
Defense attorney (05:33:45):
And in the January date, you had received more information than you had in November in terms of records and histories?
Mary Beth Barna (05:33:56):
I'm not sure what kind of records or history you're looking for.
Defense attorney (05:33:59):
Did you receive additional information for the January CME?
Mary Beth Barna (05:34:04):
Except for that she was coming back for a second session, no.
Defense attorney (05:34:07):
Okay.
Mary Beth Barna (05:34:07):
I mean, we knew that Paitin had passed, yes.
Defense attorney (05:34:12):
And were there recommendations made regarding Savannah's mental health, her overall wellbeing?
Mary Beth Barna (05:34:21):
Yes. So in November, we requested TFCBT, trauma-focused cognitive behavior therapy, which is mental health therapy. We also recommended that she follow up at UNC. We also
recommended that she follow up with her own doctor in short because of septate hymen and because of the fetal alcohol syndrome. Those are things that need to be followed. So we recommended that in November.
Defense attorney (05:34:46):
All right. And did you ever receive information about her progress through therapy?
Mary Beth Barna (05:34:52):
That is not something we would request or ask or get in any normal circumstances.
Defense attorney (05:35:03):
Okay. And who notified you, in February of 2022, you received another referral on Savannah?
Mary Beth Barna (05:35:27):
Yes. Our family advocates received it.
Defense attorney (05:35:30):
And who was it that made that referral? Was it law enforcement, family advocate?
Mary Beth Barna (05:35:35):
I don't recall.
Defense attorney (05:35:41):
And you were present in the building, but you did not do any type of examination with Savannah on that date?
Mary Beth Barna (05:35:49):
In the February 2018, I was actually in pregame with the team. We go over that. That is the usual response. If a child comes back, I'm there because if there was a change in her medical history or if she had disclosure, I need to do another exam. And also if the report has been handed in, then I can do an addendum on the report. So I will write up an addendum and say, "This child had this." It either does or does not change the recommendations we made.
Defense attorney (05:36:47):
And so there were no additional recommendations for Savannah?
Mary Beth Barna (05:36:52):
Not at the time of February, no.
Defense attorney (05:36:55):
Thank you. I don't have any other questions.
Judge (05:36:57):
Redirect?
Prosecutor (05:36:58):
Nothing, Judge.
Judge (05:36:59):
Is this witness subject to recall?
Prosecutor (05:37:00):
No, Judge.
Judge (05:37:00):
On behalf of defense?
Defense attorney (05:37:03):
No, sir.
Judge (05:37:04):
All right, ma'am, you're released from your obligations of your subpoena. You may step down. You're free to go.
Mary Beth Barna (05:37:06):
Thank you so much.
Judge (05:37:33):
State, you may call your next witness.
Prosecutor (05:37:34):
State calls Amanda Fortier to the stand.
Judge (05:37:43):
All right, ma'am, if you can make your way around here to the witness stand, please. Before you have a seat, you can place your left hand on the Bible. Raise your right hand.
Court clerk (05:37:56):
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give in court today will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Amanda Fortier (05:38:02):
Yes.
Court clerk (05:38:02):
Thank you. You may be seated.
Judge (05:38:10):
Ma'am, as you give your testimony, please make sure to speak loudly and clearly into the microphone. Make sure all of your answers are out loud. Please wait for the attorneys to be done asking the question before you give a response. Can you do that?
Amanda Fortier (05:38:20):
Yes, I can.
Judge (05:38:22):
All right. Thank you. State, you may proceed.
Prosecutor (05:38:24):
Could you state your name and spell it for Madam Court Reporter?
Amanda Fortier (05:38:27):
Yes. My name is Amanda Fortier, F-O- R-T-I-E-R.
Prosecutor (05:38:33):
And Ms. Fortier, what is your occupation?
Amanda Fortier (05:38:36):
I am a pediatric occupational therapist.
Prosecutor (05:38:39):
What does that mean?
Amanda Fortier (05:38:40):
So I work with, you can work with any age, 0 to 99 or more, but I specialize working with children. Occupational therapist is going to focus on how to make that child most independent in their setting. So we are going to address fine motor skills, visual motor skills, dressing, feeding. We want to help kids that have special needs to make them as independent and be as functional as they possibly can.
Prosecutor (05:39:10):
How long have you been an occupational therapist?
Amanda Fortier (05:39:13):
10 years.
Prosecutor (05:39:16):
At some point, did you work in the school system in Pender County?
Amanda Fortier (05:39:20):
Yes.
Prosecutor (05:39:21):
Do you still work in the Pender County school system?
Amanda Fortier (05:39:23):
No, I do not.
Prosecutor (05:39:24):
Okay. What do you do now?
Amanda Fortier (05:39:26):
Now I'm home with my four boys. I homeschool and I have boys ages eight to one years old.
Prosecutor (05:39:33):
So you're very busy.
Amanda Fortier (05:39:34):
Yes, but I have maintained my license and I use my therapy skills in volunteer settings now.
Prosecutor (05:39:42):
And Ms. Fortier, where did you work as an occupational therapist in 2016 and 2017?
Amanda Fortier (05:39:54):
I was working for Pender County Schools. My primary school that I was at was Burgaw Elementary. I think the name has changed since, but at the time...
Ms. Fortier (05:40:00):
... Elementary. I think the name has changed since, but at the time it was Burgaw Elementary was my home based school. I was also at Penderlea Elementary School.
Speaker 14 (05:40:15):
When you were at Burgaw Elementary School, did you work with Savannah Fields?
Ms. Fortier (05:40:20):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 14 (05:40:23):
Can you explain what type of classroom Savannah Fields was in.
Ms. Fortier (05:40:31):
Yes. So I worked with Savannah Fields. She was in a self-contained classroom at Burgaw Elementary. So Burgaw Elementary for the side of the district, if kids needed to be in a special setting, they were moved from their home school or the districted school to go to Burgaw Elementary, which had two self-contained classrooms at the time. It was kindergarten to two was one classroom together. And then third to fifth grade was a classroom together. Savannah at that time was in the self-contained classroom. So self-contained classroom would be children that needed a lot of extra help. They needed to be in a setting that was smaller and had a teacher that had special education background and one to two assistants based on the needs in that classroom. The classroom was designed so that the children's IEPs could be specialized for those kids so that they could get all the services that they need, but also all the accommodations for each child.
(05:41:43)
So the goal is eventually to slowly have that child go into a general education classroom as they develop those skills. However, for that K to two at that time, all those kids spent their day with that specialized teacher based for the needs in that classroom. So Savannah, at that time, I was seeing her one time a week in that self-contained classroom.
Speaker 14 (05:42:12):
Did you also see her other times besides that one day a week?
Ms. Fortier (05:42:15):
Yes, I saw her a lot. That classroom, most of those kids on that classroom were on my caseload. The teacher that year was also a new teacher in the district. So not only did I see her one time a week for 30 minutes to provide her therapy session according to her IEP, but I was also in there more than once a week doing groups with the teacher, helping run centers, and then just doing observations so that I can meet with the teacher separately to talk about what accommodations we can give each of the students to help them flourish in the classroom.
Speaker 14 (05:42:55):
What did you work with for Savannah? Like what did you work on her with?
Ms. Fortier (05:42:59):
Yeah. Savannah had difficulties and non-age appropriate delays that were significant for fine motor specifically. So she had, in the classroom setting, if we're going to make her as independent as possible, she needs to be able to open her snacks. She needs to be able to write, participate in fine motor activities, which would require how does she use her hands together? How does she hold a writing utensil? I would look at somebody and say, "Okay, they might just be coloring, but it's so much more than that. How much pressure is she putting on? Can she figure out how to use those hands together? Is she ripping the paper? If the paper goes far away, can she figure out how to move her body?" Those were all things that Savannah struggled with, including attention. She wasn't a kid that was going to be running around the classroom, but she definitely needed things broken down simply and was distracted quite easily. So sequencing and attention was something we would work on.
Speaker 14 (05:44:10):
You talk about fine motor. Are you talking about fine motor skills?
Ms. Fortier (05:44:12):
Yes.
Speaker 14 (05:44:14):
And what did you observe about the strength of her hands?
Ms. Fortier (05:44:18):
So Savannah had decreased weakness in her hands, not only her hands, but her whole upper body and core strength. So a task that would be typical for a seven-year-old, she would be quite below that.
Speaker 14 (05:44:37):
And Ms. Fortier, was there anything specifically you were helping her work on? Specific skills?
Ms. Fortier (05:44:42):
Yeah, quite a lot. So we would be working on strengthening, strengthening those hands, the upper body, the shoulders, the core. That's also important because we can't do so many of those tasks without that strength in the hands and it moves down. If your fingers aren't strong, your shoulder's not strong, so we got to move down that way. I was helping her use those hands together. So you need to be able to problem solve how am I going to use those hands for any activity, buttoning, getting dressed, opening our snacks, how do I even open Play-Doh or markers? And I'm sorry, so did that answer your question?
Speaker 14 (05:45:26):
Yes.
Ms. Fortier (05:45:26):
Okay.
Speaker 14 (05:45:27):
And Ms. Fortier, with Savannah, do you remember anything specifically about her ability to do buttons?
Ms. Fortier (05:45:34):
Yeah, I do have a font. Like I said, I spent a lot of time in that classroom and Savannah, a specific memory I have is she always had quite quirky leggings that she would wear, patterns, colors. They were absolutely adorable and she wore them because she had trouble with buttoning. That was something we were working on was using large buttons. So I would bring a large button palette with me and we would work on being able to do large buttons, but it was not a skill that she had mastered.
Speaker 14 (05:46:10):
And you talked a little bit about her struggling with attention. Was she able to multitask? Can you kind of go into that a little better about her attention?
Ms. Fortier (05:46:19):
Yeah. So she would be distracted quite easily. After observing her in the classroom, me and the teacher decided to move her closer to the board, not because she couldn't see the board, just because she was easily distracted with anybody who was in front of her or walking by. So we moved her away from the door where you could see that, see people moving by, move her closer to the classroom. When I first started doing one-on-one therapy with her, I had a lot of trouble getting her to do the tasks that I wanted her to do. And it wasn't because she didn't understand, she was just so distracted. After talking with other professionals, one of the suggestions they said was, "You can't put everything on the table." And so once I removed everything from the table, I was able to then give her clear direction. She was able to focus and attend, answer what I needed to, and then I would put one task at a time in front of her.
(05:47:20)
When we completed that task, I would be able to move on from that. But she had difficult with multi-step directions. Everything was one step or very, very simple two steps, and I only could have one item in front of her or she would have a very difficult time focusing on what I was saying.
Speaker 14 (05:47:45):
Ms. Ms. Fortier, were you working with Savannah at Burgaw Elementary when this happened to her sister in November of 2017?
Ms. Fortier (05:47:54):
I was.
Speaker 14 (05:47:56):
Did you continue to work with Savannah after Paiton had died?
Ms. Fortier (05:48:02):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 14 (05:48:03):
Did you notice any differences in Savannah?
Ms. Fortier (05:48:08):
Not really. In our therapy sessions, even though it was one-on-one, I would try to keep focused on what we were doing and what we were learning. We really just kept working on our fine motor tasks. She was happy and she was goofy. If she would be silly, she would be avoiding tasks. She fatigued easily and doing activities one-on-one.
Speaker 14 (05:48:38):
Did Savannah ever bring up anything about her sister Paiton or what happened to her?
Ms. Fortier (05:48:42):
No.
Speaker 14 (05:48:47):
Nothing further, Judge.
Judge (05:48:48):
Cross examination?
Speaker 15 (05:48:50):
Yes, sir. Good afternoon Ms. Fortier?
Ms. Fortier (05:48:53):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (05:48:58):
You said earlier that she was easily distracted?
Ms. Fortier (05:49:01):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (05:49:02):
By movement, by sound?
Ms. Fortier (05:49:06):
Both.
Speaker 15 (05:49:06):
Okay. And so an IEP is an accommodation program?
Ms. Fortier (05:49:11):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (05:49:12):
In fact, they're required for children who have learning disabilities, other issues related to their mental health or physical health?
Ms. Fortier (05:49:20):
Yes. They would have to qualify and fall into a range. Just because you have a disability doesn't mean you fall into a range to receive an IEP.
Speaker 15 (05:49:31):
And her IEP is what got her into the self-contained class?
Ms. Fortier (05:49:36):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (05:49:36):
When you say self-contained class, what do you mean by that specifically?
Ms. Fortier (05:49:40):
Yeah, it is a class that is smaller. So it would have a smaller ratio of teacher to students and the teacher would have a background in special education so that she could help provide the accommodations that they would need so that she could succeed. There wouldn't be specific state testing or requirements. It would move at her pace.
Speaker 15 (05:50:08):
Okay. So the IEP is put together with the interest of the child being in the best learning environment?
Ms. Fortier (05:50:10):
Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 15 (05:50:14):
And when you first... So in first grade, she would've been five turning six or six turning seven?
Ms. Fortier (05:50:25):
In first grade?
Speaker 15 (05:50:26):
Yes.
Ms. Fortier (05:50:26):
I would believe. I don't know exactly when her birthday falls, but I believe she was in first grade when I started seeing her.
Speaker 15 (05:50:39):
Could she read at that point, do you know?
Ms. Fortier (05:50:42):
I don't adjust reading, but I can tell you handwriting wise, we worked a lot on writing her first and last name. She was not age appropriate in writing letters. It would have taken a lot of focus for her to be writing numbers, letters to... She would have to copy them, and that focus would not be able to give her the ability to answer higher questions while she was doing that.
Speaker 15 (05:51:10):
And was it noted in her file? How did you know that she had fetal alcohol syndrome?
Ms. Fortier (05:51:19):
It was noted. It would be noted in her file. So when we get a patient, I would have her IEP. It would say that here's the history of the patient and here are all the prior evaluations that would go. So when I received her, I was able to know exactly where she fell fine motor-wise through her testing and also what accommodations she had received prior.
Speaker 15 (05:51:47):
Okay. And in your assessment of her, you wrote in some of the... It's written in some notes that she was closer to acting like a four-year old than she was her own age.
Ms. Fortier (05:52:11):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (05:52:12):
How did you make that determination?
Ms. Fortier (05:52:16):
By doing a evaluation of her skills. So we would have done a [inaudible 05:52:24] or an observation and then compared it to a generally typically functioning individual.
Speaker 15 (05:52:35):
And so she was functioning at a much lower level than her age of seven?
Ms. Fortier (05:52:40):
Yes. Specifically fine motor-wise, because I would not have evaluated cognition, but so occupational therapists can work on kids that are cognitively at one level and fine motor at another. Okay.
Speaker 15 (05:53:03):
All right. Thank you. I don't have any other questions.
Judge (05:53:03):
Redirect?
Speaker 14 (05:53:03):
No, Judge.
Judge (05:53:03):
Is this witness subject to recall?
Speaker 14 (05:53:05):
No, Judge.
Judge (05:53:05):
On behalf of the defense?
Speaker 15 (05:53:06):
No, sir.
Judge (05:53:09):
Ma'am, at this time, you are released from your obligations of your subpoena. You may step down. Thank you.
Speaker 16 (05:53:18):
This way, please.
Judge (05:53:24):
State, you may call your next witness.
Speaker 14 (05:53:26):
Judge, may we approach?
Judge (05:53:27):
You may.
Speaker 14 (05:53:27):
Judge, we're about to call...
Judge (05:53:37):
And this is for the next two witnesses, is that accurate?
Speaker 14 (05:54:24):
The next one and then the one after that.
Judge (05:54:28):
Okay, perfect. For the broadcast purposes, the next two witnesses, the audio will be allowed to be broadcast, but the video of the witnesses will not be allowed to be broadcast. Thank you. All right. State, you may call your next witness.
Speaker 14 (05:54:46):
The state will call Jamie Sykes.
Speaker 16 (05:54:59):
This way please.
Judge (05:55:00):
Right, sir, if you can make your way around to the witness stand, please. Before you have a seat, you can place your left hand on the Bible. Raise your right hand.
Speaker 17 (05:55:09):
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give in court today will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Jamie Sykes (05:55:14):
Yes.
Speaker 17 (05:55:15):
Thank you. You may be seated.
Jamie Sykes (05:55:19):
Thank you.
Judge (05:55:22):
All right, sir, if you can get as close to the microphone as you can. As you testify here today, please remember to speak loudly and clearly directly into that microphone. The closer you are, the better that it will pick you up. Also, remember to have all of your answers out loud. You can't have any head shakes or nods or mm-hmms. Answer me a yes or a no. Please wait for the attorneys to be done asking their question before you give a response. We don't want two people talking at the same time. Can you do that?
Jamie Sykes (05:55:49):
Yes, sir.
Judge (05:55:50):
All right. Thank you. State, you may proceed.
Speaker 14 (05:55:52):
Thank you, Judge. Can you state your name and spell it for Madam Court Reporter?
Jamie Sykes (05:55:55):
Jamie Sykes. First name, J-A-M-I-E. Last name, S-Y-K-E-S.
Speaker 14 (05:56:00):
Jamie Sykes, what do you do for a living?
Jamie Sykes (05:56:03):
I'm a motor mechanic.
Speaker 14 (05:56:05):
And how old are you?
Jamie Sykes (05:56:06):
27.
Speaker 14 (05:56:09):
Do you live here in Pender County?
Jamie Sykes (05:56:12):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (05:56:13):
And how do you know the defendant, David Prevatte?
Jamie Sykes (05:56:15):
I met David in kindergarten and I've known him. We were best friends for four or five years.
Speaker 14 (05:56:28):
Were you best friends since kindergarten or when you got older?
Jamie Sykes (05:56:30):
When I got older.
Speaker 14 (05:56:32):
Are you still friends with him?
Jamie Sykes (05:56:33):
No, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (05:56:35):
And when did that friendship end or fizzle out?
Jamie Sykes (05:56:40):
About the time when we found out that Paiton Fields was murder, I cut ties with him and the family.
Speaker 14 (05:56:49):
Do you see David Prevatte in the courtroom here today?
Jamie Sykes (05:56:50):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (05:56:51):
Can you identify him by where he's sitting or an article of clothing?
Jamie Sykes (05:56:55):
Blue shirt over there.
Speaker 14 (05:56:58):
Mr. Sykes, I want to go back to November 12th of 2017. How old were you at that time?
Jamie Sykes (05:57:06):
18.
Speaker 14 (05:57:08):
Were you still in high school or just out?
Jamie Sykes (05:57:11):
No ma'am. I dropped out of high school.
Speaker 14 (05:57:15):
Were you friends with David at that time?
Jamie Sykes (05:57:17):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (05:57:18):
Can you tell me what you were doing that evening and afternoon?
Jamie Sykes (05:57:23):
I believe that evening, I had came to David's house just to hang out. I pulled into the yard. David came out. We hung out in my Jeep. We were smoking weed. We smoked cigarettes. We talked for a little bit, and then I went home.
Speaker 14 (05:57:41):
And you said you went to David's house?
Jamie Sykes (05:57:42):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (05:57:44):
Where was that?
Jamie Sykes (05:57:46):
Blackwater Drive. I don't remember the address.
Speaker 14 (05:57:52):
Was anyone else hanging out with you and David in the yard, in the Jeep?
Jamie Sykes (05:57:58):
I don't remember. I want to say it was Haley Fawcett, but I really don't remember.
Speaker 14 (05:58:11):
Were you aware if David Prevatte had just moved back home or not?
Jamie Sykes (05:58:16):
No ma'am.
Speaker 14 (05:58:20):
How long did you hang out with David in the yard that evening?
Jamie Sykes (05:58:25):
I don't remember. I want to say it was 30 minutes to an hour.
Speaker 14 (05:58:32):
You mentioned a Haley Fawcett. Who was that in relation to David?
Jamie Sykes (05:58:37):
I don't remember if it was David's girlfriend at the time or his ex.
Speaker 14 (05:58:42):
Did they tend to be off and on?
Jamie Sykes (05:58:43):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (05:58:50):
Do you recall around what time you left David Prevatte's home on Blackwater Drive?
Jamie Sykes (05:58:55):
No, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (05:58:56):
Was it dark out?
Jamie Sykes (05:58:57):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (05:59:00):
Do you recall anyone picking David up?
Jamie Sykes (05:59:04):
I didn't see nobody, but I saw a car pull up.
Speaker 14 (05:59:09):
But you didn't see who it was?
Jamie Sykes (05:59:09):
No, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (05:59:14):
When you left David's house, where did you go?
Jamie Sykes (05:59:17):
Home.
Speaker 14 (05:59:20):
How far away was your house from David's house?
Jamie Sykes (05:59:23):
About 10 to 15 minutes.
Speaker 14 (05:59:28):
What'd you do when you got home?
Jamie Sykes (05:59:29):
Went to bed.
Speaker 14 (05:59:30):
Did you live with anyone?
Jamie Sykes (05:59:31):
My dad.
Speaker 14 (05:59:33):
Were you there the rest of the night?
Jamie Sykes (05:59:35):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (05:59:37):
Did you ever go in David's house at Blackwater Drive that day or evening?
Jamie Sykes (05:59:42):
No ma'am.
Speaker 14 (05:59:44):
Had you been in that house before?
Jamie Sykes (05:59:45):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (05:59:46):
A lot or sometimes?
Jamie Sykes (05:59:49):
We hung out in his house occasionally, but not a whole lot.
Speaker 14 (05:59:52):
Why was that?
Jamie Sykes (05:59:54):
Just we enjoyed being outside.
Speaker 14 (06:00:01):
When you went home that night and went to bed, when did you next hear from David?
Jamie Sykes (06:00:06):
It was early the next morning.
Speaker 14 (06:00:09):
And what'd he tell you?
Jamie Sykes (06:00:11):
That he was at the hospital and I needed to come immediately.
Speaker 14 (06:00:15):
Which hospital did he say?
Jamie Sykes (06:00:17):
New Hanover.
Speaker 14 (06:00:19):
And what did you do?
Jamie Sykes (06:00:20):
I immediately got in my Jeep and I drove straight to the hospital.
Speaker 14 (06:00:25):
Did you take him anywhere?
Jamie Sykes (06:00:27):
Just home.
Speaker 14 (06:00:30):
Was anyone else with you when you took David home?
Jamie Sykes (06:00:35):
I don't remember, but I believe it was Haley Fawcett
Speaker 14 (06:00:39):
That's his on and off again girlfriend?
Jamie Sykes (06:00:40):
Yes ma'am.
Speaker 14 (06:00:46):
At the time, did David have a cell phone?
Jamie Sykes (06:00:49):
I don't remember.
Speaker 14 (06:00:58):
Mr. Sykes, were you interviewed multiple times by the Pender County Sheriff's Office in relation to this case?
Jamie Sykes (06:01:05):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (06:01:06):
Who interviewed you?
Jamie Sykes (06:01:07):
Leatherwood.
Speaker 14 (06:01:08):
Was that because you were at the house that evening?
Jamie Sykes (06:01:11):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (06:01:12):
Prior to Paiton?
Jamie Sykes (06:01:14):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (06:01:16):
Did you sexually assault or strangle Paiton?
Jamie Sykes (06:01:18):
No, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (06:01:22):
Nothing further, Judge.
Judge (06:01:23):
Cross-examination?
Speaker 15 (06:01:24):
No questions.
Judge (06:01:25):
Is this witness subject to recall?
Speaker 14 (06:01:28):
No, Judge.
Judge (06:01:29):
On behalf of the defense?
Speaker 15 (06:01:29):
No, sir.
Judge (06:01:30):
All right, sir. You are released from your obligations of your subpoena. At this time, you may step down. You free to go.
Jamie Sykes (06:01:33):
Yes, sir.
Judge (06:01:50):
Thank you. Likewise, the next witness's image will not be broadcast, but the audio will be broadcast. State, you may call your next witness.
Speaker 18 (06:01:56):
State would call Melissa Helms to the stand.
Judge (06:01:59):
All right, ma'am, if you can make your way around here to the witness stand.
Speaker 16 (06:02:04):
This way, please.
Judge (06:02:12):
Ma'am, if you can place your left hand on the Bible, raise your right hand.
Speaker 17 (06:02:16):
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give in court today will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Melissa Helms (06:02:22):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 17 (06:02:22):
Thank you. You may be seated.
Melissa Helms (06:02:28):
Thank you.
Judge (06:02:28):
Ma'am, if you can get as close to that microphone as you can.
Melissa Helms (06:02:29):
Okay.
Judge (06:02:31):
Please make sure to speak loudly and clearly into the microphone so everybody here can hear you. Make sure all of your answers are out loud. No head shakes or nods or mm-hmms. Everything has to be a yes or no. Please wait for the attorneys to be done asking their question before you give a response. Can you do that?
Melissa Helms (06:02:46):
Yes, your honor.
Judge (06:02:46):
All right. Thank you. State, you may proceed.
Speaker 18 (06:02:49):
Melissa, can you state your name and spell it for the court reporter, please.
Melissa Helms (06:02:53):
Yes. Melissa Helms, M-E-L-I-S-S-A, H-E-L-M-S.
Speaker 18 (06:02:57):
Back in 2017, did you have a different last name?
Melissa Helms (06:03:00):
Yes. Brown, my maiden name, B-R-O-W-N.
Speaker 18 (06:03:04):
And at that time in 2017, around the time that the death of Paiton, how old were you?
Melissa Helms (06:03:11):
I believe I was 21, 22.
Speaker 18 (06:03:14):
And how old are you now?
Melissa Helms (06:03:18):
31.
Speaker 18 (06:03:18):
And do you know the defendant, David Prevatte?
Melissa Helms (06:03:19):
Yes.
Speaker 18 (06:03:20):
And do you recognize him in the courtroom today?
Melissa Helms (06:03:23):
Yes.
Speaker 18 (06:03:24):
And can you describe what he's wearing and where he's sitting?
Melissa Helms (06:03:26):
Blue shirt over here to my right next to his attorney.
Speaker 18 (06:03:28):
Will the record reflect she is referring to the defendant sitting at the defense table?
Judge (06:03:33):
The record will so reflect.
Speaker 18 (06:03:35):
Thank you. How long have you known David?
Melissa Helms (06:03:39):
I've known him, I believe, maybe six, seven, even eight years old. He was a child when I met him.
Speaker 18 (06:03:45):
Are you related to him in any way?
Melissa Helms (06:03:47):
Not blood related, no.
Speaker 18 (06:03:49):
Would you refer at times as cousins, but not blood cousins?
Melissa Helms (06:03:55):
Yes. Yes.
Speaker 18 (06:03:56):
Explain that.
Melissa Helms (06:03:58):
I mean, just because I've known him my entire life, it's easier to... Anybody ask, "How do you know him?" "My cousin." I've known him just for that long.
Speaker 18 (06:04:06):
Was your stepmom, Wanda Brown, friends with his mother, Lisa Hunt?
Melissa Helms (06:04:12):
Yes. The longest relationship I've known they've had.
Speaker 18 (06:04:16):
Thank you. Now, I'm going to take you to November 12th, 2017. Did you know Jamie Sykes, the man that just testified?
Melissa Helms (06:04:28):
I don't recall knowing him.
Speaker 18 (06:04:31):
Okay.
Melissa Helms (06:04:31):
I don't.
Speaker 18 (06:04:32):
Did you ever hear David talk about his friend, Jamie Sykes?
Melissa Helms (06:04:37):
Right now, not that I remember. No, I do not.
Speaker 18 (06:04:41):
On the night of November 12th, 2017, the night before Paiton Fields went to the hospital and ultimately died, had you seen or did you see David Prevatte that night?
Melissa Helms (06:04:57):
Yes.
Speaker 18 (06:04:58):
And where was it that you saw him?
Melissa Helms (06:05:00):
At his house, I went and picked him up at his house, and then we drove down the road. We didn't go anywhere, didn't stop anywhere, drove down the road. And then when I was done with... We were hanging out. I had a phone call. I came back and dropped him off.
Speaker 18 (06:05:16):
Is it normal at that time for you and David to hang out?
Melissa Helms (06:05:21):
I mean, yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say necessarily driving around in the car, just hanging out, yes. At that time of night, yes. Him and his ex-girlfriend, Haley Fawcett, yes.
Speaker 18 (06:05:31):
So you knew Haley Fawcett?
Melissa Helms (06:05:32):
Yes.
Speaker 18 (06:05:33):
And was she there that night that you and David were driving around?
Melissa Helms (06:05:37):
No.
Speaker 18 (06:05:40):
You said that you went to David's house. Where was his house at that time?
Melissa Helms (06:05:45):
104 Blackwater Drive over there towards Wallace.
Speaker 18 (06:05:48):
Had you been to 104 Blackwater Drive before?
Melissa Helms (06:05:50):
Yes.
Speaker 18 (06:05:51):
And approximately what time of day or night did you go over there to pick him up?
Melissa Helms (06:05:57):
I want to say... I don't know. I don't recall the time, but I know it was still kind of daylight. It was getting closer to the dark time. I would say about an hour of daylight time, and then the next few hours was just dark time.
Speaker 18 (06:06:08):
Okay. After you and David just drove around, what were you doing when you were driving around?
Melissa Helms (06:06:16):
Smoking. I smoked weed at the time. We smoked a blunt. I also, at the time, I was associated with an inmate. I got a phone call and I pulled over on the side of the road. I spoke that entire 15 minutes. I would say between 9:00, 9:30 is when that phone call took place. And then wherever we were at, where I was parked, once I got off the phone, I was like, "Okay, I need to take you home, to drive home." And then around 10 o'clock is when he got dropped back off.
Speaker 18 (06:06:43):
All right. When you picked him up, did you go inside 104 Blackwater Drive?
Melissa Helms (06:06:48):
No.
Speaker 18 (06:06:49):
When you dropped him off outside, was there anybody else outside at that time?
Melissa Helms (06:06:54):
Not that I recall, no.
Speaker 18 (06:06:55):
Did you go inside at that time when you dropped him off? No. And you said it was dark outside at about 10 o'clock in the evening, correct?
Melissa Helms (06:07:02):
Yes.
Speaker 18 (06:07:04):
You dropped him off. Did you see where he went?
Melissa Helms (06:07:07):
Just inside and then I left.
Speaker 18 (06:07:10):
At that time, where were you living?
Melissa Helms (06:07:13):
I was at my dad's property where my stepmom stayed at the time, White Stocking.
Speaker 18 (06:07:18):
Okay. And that White Stocking is approximately how far from Blackwater Drive?
Melissa Helms (06:07:21):
I'd say about 15, 10, 15 minute.
Speaker 18 (06:07:27):
At any time that night on November 12th of 2017, going into the early hours of November 13th, 2017, did you go inside 104 Blackwater Drive?
Melissa Helms (06:07:37):
No.
Speaker 18 (06:07:38):
Did you cause any injuries to Paiton Fields on the night of November 12th, 2017 into the early morning hours of November 13th, 2017?
Melissa Helms (06:07:47):
No.
Speaker 18 (06:07:54):
No further questions Judge.
Judge (06:07:55):
Cross-examination?
Speaker 15 (06:07:56):
Melissa, were you ever interviewed by the Sheriff's Department?
Melissa Helms (06:07:59):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (06:08:00):
How many times?
Melissa Helms (06:08:02):
Once, I believe.
Speaker 15 (06:08:02):
Do you remember when that was?
Melissa Helms (06:08:06):
I want to say it was a few days within the incident, but I don't recall. I do know it was Mr. Leatherwood.
Speaker 15 (06:08:14):
Did they ask you to look at your telephone?
Melissa Helms (06:08:20):
Not that I... I don't remember.
Speaker 15 (06:08:22):
All right. Were you aware that the Sheriff's Department got a preservation order on your cell phone for US Cellular?
Melissa Helms (06:08:33):
No. I know my computer was involved, but not my phone.
Speaker 15 (06:08:38):
Okay.
Melissa Helms (06:08:39):
I mean, it's okay though.
Speaker 15 (06:08:41):
You said your computer was involved.
Melissa Helms (06:08:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 15 (06:08:44):
Was your computer at David's?
Melissa Helms (06:08:46):
No.
Speaker 15 (06:08:47):
Where was your computer?
Melissa Helms (06:08:48):
My computer was at home.
Speaker 15 (06:08:50):
Okay. Did you allow David at any time to use your computer?
Melissa Helms (06:08:55):
Yes. It was days before leading up to the incident. He was at my house. I only had one rule and there was to not watch any pornography. There was pornography watched, but it wasn't child brutal. It wasn't nothing like that. It was adult normal.
Speaker 15 (06:09:14):
Adult pornography?
Melissa Helms (06:09:15):
Yes. And that's the only reason why Detective Leatherwood wanted my computer to see if there was any other deeper evidence he could find, but there was...
Speaker 15 (06:09:26):
Nothing came up.
Melissa Helms (06:09:27):
Yeah, there was nothing like that on there.
Speaker 15 (06:09:39):
And when you dropped him off that evening, you saw him go into the house. Do you know if anyone else was there at that time?
Melissa Helms (06:09:47):
Not that I recall, no.
Speaker 15 (06:09:50):
Was there lights on inside?
Melissa Helms (06:09:52):
Outside porch light, that's always on.
Speaker 15 (06:10:00):
And did he have to knock on the door? Was it unlocked or did he have to use the key? Do you remember?
Melissa Helms (06:10:06):
I know there was usually no key. I don't remember him being out there for long, but I really think I just... He got out, he walked up, and then I was leaving.
Speaker 15 (06:10:17):
Okay. And when you were interviewed by the sheriff's department, they interviewed you about Paiton's death?
Melissa Helms (06:10:26):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (06:10:28):
Did you tell them you did not believe that David was involved?
Melissa Helms (06:10:36):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (06:10:36):
And why did you tell them you did not believe David was involved?
Speaker 18 (06:10:37):
Objection, calls for speculation.
Judge (06:10:40):
Overruled. You may answer.
Melissa Helms (06:10:43):
Still answer. I feel like I personally know David. I've known him for a long time. I just don't see him making that act, committing those acts. I mean, for the longest time, that's how I've always felt. I know hearing everything that's happened, that's going on, it leads to conflictions, but I still really feel like he didn't do it.
Speaker 15 (06:11:12):
Thank you. I don't have any other questions.
Judge (06:11:14):
Redirect?
Speaker 18 (06:11:15):
Melissa, after you dropped him off, you didn't see him the rest of the night, did you?
Melissa Helms (06:11:19):
No.
Speaker 18 (06:11:20):
You weren't in the house the night that Paiton Fields was strangled and raped, were you?
Melissa Helms (06:11:24):
No.
Speaker 18 (06:11:26):
No further questions, Judge.
Judge (06:11:27):
Recross?
Speaker 15 (06:11:28):
No, sir.
Judge (06:11:29):
Is this witness subject to recall?
Speaker 18 (06:11:31):
No, Your Honor.
Judge (06:11:32):
On behalf of the defense?
Speaker 15 (06:11:33):
No, sir.
Judge (06:11:33):
And ma'am, you're released from your obligations of your subpoena. You may step down. You're free to go. State, you may call your next witness.
Speaker 18 (06:11:47):
State would call Michael Hall to the stand.
Judge (06:11:51):
There wasn't any issues regarding what we talked about?
Speaker 14 (06:11:54):
No, Judge.
Judge (06:11:54):
Okay. [inaudible 06:11:58] All right, sir, if you can make your way around to the witness stand, please. Sir, if you can place your left hand on the Bible, raise your right hand.
Speaker 17 (06:12:07):
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give in court today will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Michael Hall (06:12:13):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 17 (06:12:13):
Thank you. You may be seated.
Judge (06:12:20):
Sir, please make sure to speak loudly and clearly into the microphone. Make sure all of your answers are out loud, and please make sure to wait for the attorneys to be done asking their questions before you give a response. Can you do that?
Michael Hall (06:12:31):
Yes, sir.
Judge (06:12:31):
All right. State, you may proceed.
Speaker 18 (06:12:33):
Thank you, Your Honor. Mr. Hall, can you state your name and spell it for the court reporter please?
Michael Hall (06:12:37):
Michael Hall. First name, M-I-C-H-A-E-L. Last name, H-A-L-L.
Speaker 18 (06:12:43):
And how old are you currently?
Michael Hall (06:12:46):
Currently 28.
Speaker 18 (06:12:48):
Back in November of 2017, how old were you?
Michael Hall (06:12:52):
I was 19.
Speaker 18 (06:12:56):
Okay. Do you know the defendant, David Prevatte?
Michael Hall (06:12:59):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 18 (06:12:59):
How do you know David Prevatte?
Michael Hall (06:13:02):
We went to school together. We rode the same bus in middle school years. Like I said, I would, if I seen him outside, I would stop by their house, talk to them pretty much.
Speaker 18 (06:13:18):
In 2017, did you live near him?
Michael Hall (06:13:21):
Yes. My grandparents lived all the way at the end of Blackwater Drive on the left.
Speaker 18 (06:13:25):
And where did David live at that time?
Michael Hall (06:13:27):
At the beginning of the road on the right, first house on the right.
Speaker 18 (06:13:30):
Also on Blackwater Drive?
Michael Hall (06:13:31):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 18 (06:13:31):
Would you have to drive past David's house to get to your grandparents' house?
Michael Hall (06:13:36):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 18 (06:13:37):
Were you living with your grandparents in 2017?
Michael Hall (06:13:39):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 18 (06:13:40):
And you said you knew David for how long prior to 2017?
Michael Hall (06:13:46):
I think we, I don't know, maybe six, seven years, middle school, Penderlea.
Speaker 18 (06:14:03):
All right. I'll take you to the night of November 12th, 2017. Do you remember that night?
State Attorney 1 (06:14:00):
I'll take you to the night of November 12th, 2017. Do you remember that night?
Michael Hall (06:14:05):
Vaguely.
State Attorney 1 (06:14:05):
All right. Do you remember driving to your grandparents' house on that night?
Michael Hall (06:14:10):
Yes, sir.
State Attorney 1 (06:14:11):
And as you were driving past David's house on that particular night, did you stop and talk to David?
Michael Hall (06:14:19):
Yes, sir.
State Attorney 1 (06:14:20):
And why did you stop?
Michael Hall (06:14:24):
I'd just seen him and Jamie out in the yard and I figured I'd stop and talk to him.
State Attorney 1 (06:14:28):
Did you know Jamie Sykes?
Michael Hall (06:14:30):
Yes. I went to school with him pretty much my whole life.
State Attorney 1 (06:14:32):
All right. So they were outside of where?
Michael Hall (06:14:36):
Of David's house.
State Attorney 1 (06:14:38):
All right. And you were driving at that time, what kind of vehicle?
Michael Hall (06:14:41):
A 2003 blue Jeep Grand Cherokee.
State Attorney 1 (06:14:45):
And as you drove by, you said you saw both David and Jamie and decided to stop?
Michael Hall (06:14:49):
Mm-hmm.
State Attorney 1 (06:14:51):
You have to answer yes or no-
Michael Hall (06:14:52):
Oh yes, sir.
State Attorney 1 (06:14:52):
... so the court reporter-
Michael Hall (06:14:53):
Yes, sir.
State Attorney 1 (06:14:55):
Approximately what time of day or night was that?
Michael Hall (06:15:00):
I'd say between 8:00 and 9:00. It was dark out.
State Attorney 1 (06:15:05):
Okay. And did you get out of your vehicle?
Michael Hall (06:15:06):
I don't think I did. If I did, I stayed next to it.
State Attorney 1 (06:15:13):
Did you ever go inside that night to 104 Blackwater Drive?
Michael Hall (06:15:17):
No, sir.
State Attorney 1 (06:15:19):
How long did you stay there and talk to Jamie and David?
Michael Hall (06:15:25):
It wasn't very long. Probably 15 to 20 minutes, maybe.
State Attorney 1 (06:15:31):
And did you leave?
Michael Hall (06:15:32):
Yes, sir.
State Attorney 1 (06:15:33):
And where did you go?
Michael Hall (06:15:34):
To my grandparents' house.
State Attorney 1 (06:15:35):
And where did you stay that night?
Michael Hall (06:15:36):
At my grandparents' house.
State Attorney 1 (06:15:40):
Prior to November 12th, 2017, had you been inside 104 Blackwater Drive or David's residence?
Michael Hall (06:15:47):
No, I've never stepped in that house. I've never even been in the fence around the house.
State Attorney 1 (06:15:51):
Okay. On November 12th, 2017, I'm sure you've heard or have you heard about David's niece, Paitin Fields?
Michael Hall (06:16:04):
Yes.
State Attorney 1 (06:16:08):
On November 12th, 2017, going into November 13th, 2017, did you go inside 104 Blackwater Drive, strangle or rape Paitin Fields?
Michael Hall (06:16:19):
No, sir.
State Attorney 1 (06:16:20):
Were you interviewed by law enforcement?
Michael Hall (06:16:25):
Yes.
State Attorney 1 (06:16:26):
Did you provide them a sample of buccal swab or a swabbing of your cheek?
Michael Hall (06:16:30):
Yes, sir.
State Attorney 1 (06:16:38):
As you went home, did you stay at home all night or did you go somewhere else that night?
Michael Hall (06:16:41):
I stayed at home all night.
State Attorney 1 (06:16:43):
At the time, were you working?
Michael Hall (06:16:45):
Yes, sir.
State Attorney 1 (06:16:45):
Where were you working?
Michael Hall (06:16:47):
Brunswick Cove Living Center in Leland.
State Attorney 1 (06:16:52):
No further questions, Judge.
Judge (06:16:53):
Cross examination?
Prosecutor (06:16:55):
No questions.
Judge (06:16:56):
Is this witness subject to recall?
State Attorney 1 (06:16:57):
No, your Honor. On behalf of the defense?
Mr. Britt (06:16:58):
No, sir.
Judge (06:17:00):
All right, sir, you're released from your obligations of your subpoena. You may step down. You're free to go.
Michael Hall (06:17:03):
Thank you.
Bailiff (06:17:04):
Watch your step, please.
Judge (06:17:14):
All right, members of the jury, we're going to go ahead and take our mid-afternoon break, close up your notebooks. As you are out of the courtroom, remember, do not discuss this case amongst yourselves. Do not discuss this case with anyone else. Do not have any contact with any of the parties, attorneys, or witnesses. Do not conduct your own independent investigation, and do not post on any social media sites. At this time, we'll excuse you for about 15 minutes. Thank you.
Bailiff (06:17:40):
Thank you, Your Honor. Make sure your notebooks are closed, [inaudible 06:17:43] in your chairs. When you're ready, front row [inaudible 06:17:46] back [inaudible 06:17:46].
Judge (06:33:22):
We're back on the record. Is there anything that we need to discuss on behalf of the state?
Prosecutor (06:33:23):
Judge, just forecasting, we have two witnesses left, Detective Clinard and Eric Kelly from the New Hanover County Sheriff's Office. It might not take us quite to 5:00, but our next set of witnesses are lab analysts from Raleigh, so we didn't want to bring them down unnecessarily.
Mr. Britt (06:33:38):
[inaudible 06:33:42].
Judge (06:33:47):
Is there anything we need to discuss on behalf of the defense?
Mr. Britt (06:33:52):
No, sir.
Judge (06:33:53):
All right. Let's bring our jury back in.
State Attorney 1 (06:33:55):
Judge, as they're coming in, I would just ask that a reminder that we talk about Friday before we leave today.
Judge (06:34:01):
With the jury.
State Attorney 1 (06:34:02):
With the jury. Thank you.
Bailiff (06:34:03):
Bringing in the jury. The jury is seated, Your Honor.
Judge (06:34:47):
Thank you, sir. Let the record reflect that the jury has re-entered the courtroom. State, you may call your next witness.
Prosecutor (06:34:53):
State calls Steve Clinard to the stand.
Judge (06:34:56):
All right, sir, if you can make your way around here to the witness stand, please. All right, sir, if you can place your left hand on the Bible, raise your right hand.
Court Reporter (06:35:12):
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give in court today will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God? I do. Thank you. You may be seated.
Judge (06:35:23):
All right, sir, if you can get as close to that microphone as you can, speak loudly and clearly into the microphone, make sure all of your answers are out loud and please wait for the attorneys to be done asking their questions before you give a response. Can you do that?
Steve Clinard (06:35:35):
Yes, sir.
Judge (06:35:35):
All right. Thank you. State, you may proceed.
Prosecutor (06:35:37):
Thank you, Judge. Can you state your name and spell it for Madam Court Reporter?
Steve Clinard (06:35:41):
Sure. My name is Steve Clinard. My last name is C-L-I-N-A-R-D.
Prosecutor (06:35:49):
And Detective Clinard, where do you work?
Steve Clinard (06:35:51):
I am happily retired.
Prosecutor (06:35:55):
And where are you retired from?
Steve Clinard (06:35:57):
My last 14 years were with the Pender County Sheriff's Office. I retired in November of 2024.
Prosecutor (06:36:06):
Did you work for other law enforcement agencies as well?
Steve Clinard (06:36:09):
I did.
Prosecutor (06:36:09):
Tell us a little bit about that.
Steve Clinard (06:36:11):
Three other agencies. I started with the Winston-Salem Police Department. My wife and I then moved to the Outer Banks where I was employed with the Nags Head Police Department. And then I got out of law enforcement for eight years. And then when I got back into it, I started back with the Topsail Beach Police Department here in Pender County, and then transferred to the Pender County Sheriff's Office and remained there until my retirement.
Prosecutor (06:36:41):
What various roles have you had at the Pender County Sheriff's Office?
Steve Clinard (06:36:46):
I started as a school resource officer, which is uniformed deputy. I was stationed at Topsail High School. I worked there for a year and then there was an opening in their uniform division to the road deputies. I transferred to that and stayed in that position for about three years. And then there was an opening in the detective division handling special victims cases. I was interested in that. At that time, Sergeant Leatherwood was working SVU cases and he wanted to go to general investigations and I wanted his SVU position, so I applied for that and then received that in 2014 and worked that for 10 years.
Prosecutor (06:37:34):
So in 2017, were you an SVU detective?
Steve Clinard (06:37:38):
Yes.
Prosecutor (06:37:46):
And in November of 2017, you were sworn, employed and on duty with the Pender County Sheriff's Office as a special victims detective?
Steve Clinard (06:37:53):
Yes.
Prosecutor (06:37:56):
Can you tell me how you got involved in this case on November 13th of 2017?
Steve Clinard (06:38:03):
Yes, ma'am. I was on duty and working another child sex assault case unrelated to this. I was at the Carousel Center, as a matter of fact, when I was notified by probably a supervisor with the detectives division that this case was ongoing and they asked if I could do some things that day.
Prosecutor (06:38:26):
Were you the lead on this case?
Steve Clinard (06:38:27):
I was not.
Prosecutor (06:38:29):
Why was that?
Steve Clinard (06:38:32):
The uniformed deputies that were called to the hospital that morning, to Pender Memorial Hospital that morning, some of them knew that I was scheduled for vacation. My wife and I were going to go on vacation on the 14th of November. So instead of calling me, which probably would've come to me since that's what I did, and Leatherwood was now a general investigator, they called Sergeant Leatherwood.
Prosecutor (06:39:00):
And Sergeant Leatherwood had been an SVU detective for some time, correct?
Steve Clinard (06:39:04):
He had been. He had the position before I took it over and he was there for three or four years working those cases.
Prosecutor (06:39:11):
And then he moved to general crimes?
Steve Clinard (06:39:13):
He did.
Prosecutor (06:39:17):
But he took the lead on this case since you were going on vacation, right?
Steve Clinard (06:39:21):
That's usually how it fell in place is you get the call. He might have been on call. SVU detectives have a different on-call schedule. General investigators have a separate on-call schedule, so he may have been in that rotation to receive calls anyway. But it helped that he had SVU experience, especially with what he was going to that morning.
Prosecutor (06:39:46):
Detective Clinard, did you... Or let me start here. Where did you go on November 13th of 2017 to assist?
Steve Clinard (06:39:56):
The first thing I did was I was asked by supervisors to go to New Hanover Regional Medical Center and retrieve the sex assault kit that the SANE nurses had done.
Prosecutor (06:40:08):
And what did you do with that kit?
Steve Clinard (06:40:10):
Immediately brought it to the Pender County Sheriff's Office from Wilmington and gave it to Detective Lieutenant Wells.
Prosecutor (06:40:19):
And that kit was sealed when you transported it?
Steve Clinard (06:40:21):
It was.
Prosecutor (06:40:26):
And why did you give it to Lieutenant Wells?
Steve Clinard (06:40:29):
He was in charge of collecting evidence.
Prosecutor (06:40:33):
What else did you do that day?
Steve Clinard (06:40:36):
I assisted in... I knew that they were preparing a search warrant for 104 Blackwater Drive, and I was asked to assist in that.
Prosecutor (06:40:47):
Did you go to 104 Blackwater Drive?
Steve Clinard (06:40:49):
I did.
Prosecutor (06:40:51):
What did you do there?
Steve Clinard (06:40:53):
Walked through the house initially once entry was gained with Lieutenant Wells. I went to all of the rooms, but we were just looking. He might have been photographing. We weren't moving anything. We weren't disturbing it, just documenting the scene as we found it, just walking in. Then I was assigned to search. Everyone there as part of the search team was assigned an area to search. I was asked to search the kitchen area, and then when that was finished, I was asked to go outside and search the perimeter of the yard, side yard, backyard, and into the woods behind the house.
Prosecutor (06:41:34):
Did you find anything in the kitchen area or in the yard, the perimeter and the woods of significance that you brought to Lieutenant Wells' attention to collect?
Steve Clinard (06:41:45):
No, ma'am. I did not.
Prosecutor (06:41:53):
When you walked through that home, did you ever notice any leashes or dog collars when you were in that home?
Steve Clinard (06:42:04):
No, ma'am. I did not.
Prosecutor (06:42:15):
Detective Clinard, did you do anything else at the search of 104 Blackwater?
Steve Clinard (06:42:20):
No, ma'am. Not that day.
Prosecutor (06:42:25):
Did you do anything else that day to assist in the investigation?
Steve Clinard (06:42:29):
We were out late afternoon, or at least I was. And like I said, I was set to go on vacation on the 14th, the next day. So when they had nothing else for me to do to assist, I went home and prepared for a vacation.
Prosecutor (06:42:46):
And Detective Clinard, when you returned from vacation and in the months and years that would follow, did you assist in this investigation over time?
Steve Clinard (06:42:58):
I did. I was asked initially by Sergeant Leatherwood to either go with him while he interviewed Lisa and Dale Hunt. There were several other people of interest that he wanted some assistance with to go interview. There were a few things that he asked me to do because he couldn't do it. He didn't have the time to do it and asked me if I would go do it, that it consisted of maybe an interview. And depending on their relationship to the case or what he felt might be the relationship to their case to ask for a buccal swab of their mouth, if they would consent to it. So there's a few things that I did as far as that goes. Assisted him with other interviews, both at people's homes and at the sheriff's office.
Prosecutor (06:43:44):
Sergeant Clinard, at some point, did you go get a DNA swab from a Larry Huggins?
Steve Clinard (06:44:01):
I did.
Prosecutor (06:44:01):
Why was that?
Steve Clinard (06:44:03):
We had received some information that Mr. Huggins was... He lived close by, I think the next street over from Blackwater, and that he was acting suspicious around neighborhood kids and primarily giving them candy. So I was asked to go locate him, interview him, and then if he would consent to a cheek swab, obtain a cheek swab from him.
Prosecutor (06:44:29):
And did you do that?
Steve Clinard (06:44:30):
I did.
Prosecutor (06:44:35):
May I approach?
Judge (06:44:45):
You may.
Prosecutor (06:44:46):
Detective Clinard, I'm showing you what I've marked as State's Exhibit 91. Do you recognize this package?
Steve Clinard (06:44:51):
I do.
Prosecutor (06:44:52):
What is that?
Steve Clinard (06:44:53):
Brown paper evidence bag with my handwriting, Lieutenant Wells' handwriting, and then there's some stamps afterwards from the NC State Crime Lab and some dates and some other information.
Prosecutor (06:45:06):
Does that contain the DNA swabbing you got from Larry Huggins?
Steve Clinard (06:45:10):
Yes.
Prosecutor (06:45:12):
Is it in a substantially similar condition as when you collected it other than going for testing at the crime lab?
Steve Clinard (06:45:17):
Yes.
Prosecutor (06:45:18):
Judge, the state would move to enter State's 91.
Judge (06:45:21):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (06:45:22):
No, sir.
Judge (06:45:23):
State's Exhibit 91 will be admitted into evidence.
Prosecutor (06:45:26):
After you interviewed Larry Huggins, did you do anything else with regards to him or find him relevant to the investigation?
Steve Clinard (06:45:37):
With Mr. Huggins?
Prosecutor (06:45:38):
Yes.
Steve Clinard (06:45:38):
No, ma'am. We did interview some of the neighbors and there were some kids around his house and I talked with them concerning this, but it didn't lead to anything.
Prosecutor (06:45:55):
Did you also at some point obtain a DNA swab from a Jordan Swenson?
Steve Clinard (06:46:04):
I did.
Prosecutor (06:46:08):
And why was that?
Steve Clinard (06:46:09):
That would've been another request by Sergeant Leatherwood at the time to just... And I'm not sure exactly now what his relationship was to it, other than he lived on Blackwater Drive. I think his address was 119, so a few houses down from the Hunt and Prevatte house. But I did go and talk with him and then he consented to a buccal swab as well.
Prosecutor (06:46:36):
May I approach?
Judge (06:46:47):
You may.
Prosecutor (06:46:47):
I'm showing you what I've marked as State's Exhibit 92. Do you recognize that?
Steve Clinard (06:46:51):
I do.
Prosecutor (06:46:51):
What is it?
Steve Clinard (06:46:53):
Brown paper evidence bag with my writing on it, identifying what the contents are, address. It also has Lieutenant Wells' writing on it concerning evidence numbers. And then again, stamps from the NC State Crime Lab.
Prosecutor (06:47:10):
And is this the swab you took from Jordan Swenson?
Steve Clinard (06:47:13):
It is.
Prosecutor (06:47:15):
Does it appear to be in a substantially similar condition as when you collected it, other than going to the crime lab for testing?
Steve Clinard (06:47:20):
It does.
Prosecutor (06:47:21):
Judge, the state would move to enter State's 92 into evidence.
Judge (06:47:24):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (06:47:25):
No, sir.
Judge (06:47:26):
State's Exhibit 92 will be admitted into evidence.
Prosecutor (06:47:29):
Detective Clinard, you obtained a swab and interviewed Jordan Swenson. Did anything come of that interview or anything relevant to the investigation?
Steve Clinard (06:47:37):
No, ma'am. It did not.
Prosecutor (06:47:43):
And so at Leatherwood's direction, were you exploring other potential leads besides the suspect, David Prevatte?
Steve Clinard (06:47:51):
He was leading me to believe that that's what he was doing, is exploring anyone whose name popped up that needed to be looked into or investigated. And-
Steve Clinard (06:48:00):
... needed to be looked into or investigated. And like I said, there were several things that he couldn't get to. There was just too much to do, so he would farm this out to other detectives. And those things that I did was because of his need for assistance.
Prosecutor (06:48:16):
But nothing came of your investigation into Larry Huggins or Jordan Swenson?
Steve Clinard (06:48:21):
No, ma'am.
Prosecutor (06:48:23):
Did you also obtain swabs from Melissa Brown, now known as Melissa Helms?
Steve Clinard (06:48:28):
Yes.
Prosecutor (06:48:29):
And again, did you do that at Sergeant Leatherwood's direction?
Steve Clinard (06:48:34):
It was.
Prosecutor (06:48:38):
Did you also obtain swabs from Michael Hall?
Steve Clinard (06:48:42):
Yes.
Prosecutor (06:48:43):
Again, was that at Sergeant Leatherwood's direction?
Steve Clinard (06:48:46):
Yes.
Prosecutor (06:48:47):
And those swabs have already been admitted into evidence. Sergeant Clinard, why were those swabs taken from Michael Hall and Melissa Brown?
Steve Clinard (06:49:00):
We knew, or at least Sergeant Leatherwood knew, and he relayed that to me, that they were around the house in the immediate hours to Paitin Fields being transported to the hospital with her injuries. Again, it would be logical to talk with them and to obtain some samples just in case.
Prosecutor (06:49:22):
And did you learn they had been with David Prevatte the evening before all this happened?
Steve Clinard (06:49:26):
Yes.
Prosecutor (06:49:38):
Nothing further, Judge.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:49:40):
Cross examination?
Luther Britt III (06:49:43):
Yes. Good afternoon, Mr. Clinard.
Steve Clinard (06:49:47):
Good afternoon.
Luther Britt III (06:49:51):
You were the affiant in a search warrant application to preserve phone records or computer records from Ms. Brown?
Steve Clinard (06:49:59):
Yes.
Luther Britt III (06:49:59):
Is that correct?
Steve Clinard (06:50:00):
Yes.
Luther Britt III (06:50:02):
What was the purpose of doing that?
Steve Clinard (06:50:06):
Well, let me ask you, did the search warrant also include the computer?
Luther Britt III (06:50:11):
Yes.
Steve Clinard (06:50:11):
Okay. Most of it was primarily focused on the computer based on information that she had provided that David Prevatte had used her computer. So we were concerned with internet searches related to that.
Luther Britt III (06:50:26):
The internet searches you were concerned with were pornography?
Steve Clinard (06:50:33):
Yes. Well, plus other things.
Luther Britt III (06:50:36):
Allegations of child pornography or pornography as a group?
Steve Clinard (06:50:41):
Pornography as a group. What type of pornography was he looking at, if we could find it in those records, things along those lines.
Luther Britt III (06:50:48):
And did you receive any such information?
Steve Clinard (06:50:51):
We did not.
Luther Britt III (06:50:58):
And the Mr. Huggins and Mr. Swenson, they were leads as possibly involved in the case?
Steve Clinard (06:51:12):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt III (06:51:14):
And that's why you obtained the DNA?
Steve Clinard (06:51:16):
Yes.
Luther Britt III (06:51:17):
And neither one of them resisted that?
Steve Clinard (06:51:20):
No, sir.
Luther Britt III (06:51:22):
All right. Thank you. I don't have any other questions.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:51:24):
Redirect?
Prosecutor (06:51:25):
Just briefly, Judge. Mr. Clinard, you said you didn't receive any information about the pornography searches. Why was that?
Steve Clinard (06:51:34):
We did not have, at that time with our agency, anyone who could extract the data from laptops, cell phones. So we would farm those things out to agencies that did have that capability. At that time, I believe we used, it was either the State Bureau of Investigations or the Federal Bureau of Investigations. I'm not sure which one now, but when that computer from Melissa Brown was turned over to them, they informed me that there was a problem extracting the data, that the data ended up being corrupted, and that there was no data for them to return. That agency ended up purchasing a new computer for Melissa Brown because they ruined her old one.
Prosecutor (06:52:23):
Nothing further, Judge.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:52:24):
Any recross?
Luther Britt III (06:52:25):
No, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:52:26):
Is this witness subject to recall?
Prosecutor (06:52:27):
No, Judge.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:52:27):
On behalf of the defense?
Luther Britt III (06:52:30):
No, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:52:30):
All right, sir, you're released from your obligations of your subpoena. You may step down. You're free to go.
Steve Clinard (06:52:39):
Thank you.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:52:47):
State, you may call your next witness.
Prosecutor (06:52:48):
The State calls Eric Kelley to the stand.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:52:53):
All right, sir, if you can make your way around to the witness stand, please. Place your left hand on the Bible. Raise your right hand.
Clerk (06:53:07):
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give in court today will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Eric Kelley (06:53:12):
I do.
Clerk (06:53:13):
Thank you. You may be seated.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:53:18):
So if you can make sure to sit as close as you can to that microphone like you are. Make sure to speak loudly and clearly. Make sure all of your answers are out loud and make sure that you wait for the attorneys to be done asking the question before you give a response. Can you do that?
Eric Kelley (06:53:32):
Yes, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:53:32):
All right. Thank you. State, you may proceed.
Prosecutor (06:53:34):
Thank you, Judge. Can you state your name and spell it for Madam Court Reporter?
Eric Kelley (06:53:38):
Yes. It's Eric Kelley, E-R-I-C K-E-L-L-E-Y.
Prosecutor (06:53:44):
Where do you work?
Eric Kelley (06:53:46):
I am employed with the New Hanover County Sheriff's Office, Wilmington.
Prosecutor (06:53:49):
How long have you worked there?
Eric Kelley (06:53:50):
I was employed there 2004.
Prosecutor (06:53:55):
Were you in law enforcement prior to that?
Eric Kelley (06:53:57):
Yes. Five years, just local police department.
Prosecutor (06:54:03):
What have been your roles at the New Hanover County Sheriff's Office?
Eric Kelley (06:54:06):
I have worked in most of the divisions, which includes the Detention Division. I spent about three years as a bailiff in the courts. 2006, I went to patrol. And then in 2007, I was promoted to a detective.
Prosecutor (06:54:24):
What do you do now for the New Hanover County Sheriff's Office?
Eric Kelley (06:54:29):
I am a digital forensic examiner for the sheriff's office.
Prosecutor (06:54:34):
How long have you been doing that?
Eric Kelley (06:54:36):
I started with my digital forensic training around 2009, 2010. I received most of that training through the FBI as part of a full-time cyber task force, and then also now, with the Secret Service's Cyber Fraud Task Force.
Prosecutor (06:54:53):
Do you often assist other agencies in cases?
Eric Kelley (06:54:56):
Yes.
Prosecutor (06:54:57):
Why is that?
Eric Kelley (06:54:59):
Well, for numerous reasons, we work with partnering agencies. If we need something that we don't have and another county has it or another jurisdiction, we would lean on them to perform an extraction of a digital device or something like that. And of course, we return those favors. If there's something that we can do that others can't, then we will oblige.
Prosecutor (06:55:26):
Were you asked to assist in this case?
Eric Kelley (06:55:28):
Yes, I was.
Prosecutor (06:55:29):
Who asked you?
Eric Kelley (06:55:30):
I believe this was Detective Crowningshield.
Prosecutor (06:55:34):
Who is that?
Eric Kelley (06:55:35):
Well, Detective Crowningshield, as I know him, was a captain with the New Hanover County Sheriff's Office. He retired subsequently and then I believe was... I don't know if he was employed with the Pender County Sheriff's Office, but he had some association with the sheriff's office, I believe as an investigator.
Prosecutor (06:55:56):
What were you asked to do in this case?
Eric Kelley (06:55:59):
Detective Crowningshield asked me to take a look at a couple photographs and see if I could do any sort of enhancements to those photographs for better clarity.
Prosecutor (06:56:10):
And did you receive photographs of Paitin Fields' neck?
Eric Kelley (06:56:14):
I did.
Prosecutor (06:56:16):
Did you know much about the case at the time when you received these?
Eric Kelley (06:56:19):
Nothing at all.
Prosecutor (06:56:21):
What did you do with those photographs?
Eric Kelley (06:56:23):
I used just a general open-source program commonly available and performed some enhancements to those photographs, not adding anything to the data necessarily, just as you would commonly think of, like brightening a photo, changing contrast, things of that nature to see if any better clarity of the photograph could be made.
Prosecutor (06:56:51):
So when you were enhancing these photos, were you altering them in any way that adds or takes away a part of the image?
Eric Kelley (06:56:58):
Well, technically, during an enhancement, we are changing the pixels themselves. By that, I mean, if I want to brighten a photo, it will brighten all of the pixels in the photo, which technically speaking, does change the data itself, but it doesn't add anything to the data. In other words, anything that's captured by the camera itself will be presented in the photograph when I do the enhancements, but it doesn't add anything that wasn't already captured by the camera.
Prosecutor (06:57:36):
So essentially, you're making it where you can see details that are already there?
Eric Kelley (06:57:40):
Correct.
Prosecutor (06:57:42):
What exactly were you adjusting on these photos?
Eric Kelley (06:57:46):
So as I said, this is things... It's not an exact science because I didn't know the exact camera or camera model that took those photographs, but this is things like changing the brightness, contrast, saturation, things of that nature to see if anything stood out better than the original photographs.
Prosecutor (06:58:10):
And did you do that... Did you enhance some of the photographs of the injuries to Paitin Fields' neck?
Eric Kelley (06:58:18):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (06:58:20):
And you produced three photographs?
Eric Kelley (06:58:23):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (06:58:25):
May I approach?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:58:26):
You may.
Prosecutor (06:58:47):
Judge, if I have a moment to show Mr. Britt?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:58:49):
You may.
Prosecutor (06:59:57):
May I approach?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:59:58):
You may. I'm showing you what I've marked as State's Exhibit 93, which is a disc. Do you recognize that?
Eric Kelley (07:00:07):
Yes, I do.
Prosecutor (07:00:08):
Are these some of the photos you enhanced for this case?
Eric Kelley (07:00:13):
It is.
Prosecutor (07:00:14):
Did you review this prior to testifying here today?
Eric Kelley (07:00:18):
I have.
Prosecutor (07:00:18):
And do these photos accurately portray the enhancements that you did and turned over to Detective Crowningshield?
Eric Kelley (07:00:24):
They do.
Prosecutor (07:00:26):
Judge, I would move to admit State's 93 into evidence.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:00:30):
Any objection?
Luther Britt III (07:00:30):
Objection.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:00:32):
You say no objection?
Luther Britt III (07:00:33):
I said objection.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:00:34):
You are objecting?
Luther Britt III (07:00:35):
Yes, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:00:36):
Okay. Do you wish to be heard on your objection?
Luther Britt III (07:00:37):
Briefly.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:00:38):
All right. Members of the jury, go ahead and close up your notebooks. Have you exit the courtroom here briefly. Remember, do not discuss this case amongst yourselves. Do not discuss this case with anybody else. Do not have any contact with any of the parties, attorneys, or witnesses. Do not post online on any social media sites and do not conduct any independent investigation. We'll go ahead and excuse you for a few minutes.
Bailiff (07:01:03):
Thank you, Your Honor. We'll leave your closed notebooks on your chairs and ready front row and right this way, please. Jury's out the courtroom.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:01:39):
Thank you, sir. Let the record reflect that the jury has exited the courtroom. Mr. Britt, your objection?
Luther Britt III (07:01:43):
The objection is these are not original photographs. These are modified. They have been altered from the original, and that would be my objection.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:01:52):
Okay. Can I see the photos?
Prosecutor (07:02:49):
Judge, for the record, there's three photos on this disc labeled 83, 84, and 6624. This is 83, 84, and 6624.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:03:09):
Who is the original photographer?
Prosecutor (07:03:12):
These are from the autopsy, Judge.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:03:21):
Okay. Are you pulling up the originals, Mr. Smith?
Jason William Smith (07:03:22):
I am, Judge.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:03:23):
Thank you. It was not indicated, but these pictures will be excluded from the broadcast.
Prosecutor (07:04:01):
I believe one photo is from the autopsy and two are from the hospital images.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:04:07):
Okay.
Prosecutor (07:04:07):
We're cleaning them up.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:04:07):
Thank you.
Jason William Smith (07:04:08):
6624 is from the autopsy. Judge, if we can take them one by one, because I have a second disc that I need to put in there.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:04:35):
Okay. Thank you.
Prosecutor (07:04:37):
Judge, this is the original 6624.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:04:38):
Okay.
Jason William Smith (07:04:44):
Do you need to see that original 6624 again, Judge?
Prosecutor (07:04:46):
Or the enhancement?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:04:46):
No.
Prosecutor (07:04:46):
Okay.
(07:04:46)
Mr. Kelley?
Eric Kelley (07:04:46):
Ma'am?
Prosecutor (07:04:46):
The detective you said, [inaudible 07:12:07], can you spell that for me?
Eric Kelley (07:04:46):
Crowningshield, so C-R-O-W-N-I-N-G-S-H-I-E-L-D, I believe it is.
Prosecutor (07:04:46):
Okay, thank you.
Eric Kelley (07:04:46):
Yes, ma'am.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:14:25):
While State is looking for those pictures, I had failed to memorialize one of our bench conferences before the break. State had indicated that two of their witnesses did not want to be broadcast. I indicated that I would allow their images not to be broadcast, but the audio would be broadcast. That was before our mid-afternoon break. We'll go ahead and be at ease for the next few moments.
Bailiff (07:14:55):
We'll be at ease.
Eric Kelley (07:14:55):
I can sit down, Your Honor?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:14:55):
You can sit down [inaudible 07:15:10].
Judge (07:23:18):
And I think we found one out of three, correct? And we got the other two?
State (07:23:19):
Yes. I can get the [inaudible 07:23:23].
Judge (07:23:24):
Again, these are not to be broadcast.
Mr. Britt (07:23:25):
[inaudible 07:23:32] it's probably [inaudible 07:23:33].
State (07:23:45):
The original 83-
Judge (07:23:45):
Okay.
State (07:23:48):
... and the original 84. We will have to admit these through Eric Kelly.
Judge (07:23:56):
Okay. So these two particular photos have not been introduced into evidence quite yet?
State (07:24:02):
No, Judge. But the other, 6 ...
Judge (07:24:04):
The 6624 was Dr. Kelly autopsy photos. Okay.
(07:24:10)
And these two photos were taken by Ms. Merchant?
State (07:24:16):
We believe Detective Leathwood at the sheriff's office.
Judge (07:24:19):
Okay.
State (07:24:19):
At the autopsy.
Judge (07:24:21):
All right.
(07:24:22)
Now, can you go back to the enhanced ones?
State (07:24:23):
Yes.
Judge (07:24:23):
Thank you.
State (07:24:23):
I might just be [inaudible 07:24:46] this.
Judge (07:24:23):
[inaudible 07:24:48]. Here. [inaudible 07:24:50].
State (07:25:25):
That's 83 enhanced and 84 enhanced.
Judge (07:25:32):
Can you go back to the first one?
(07:25:35)
There are three pictures, correct?
State (07:25:37):
Yes. This was the one and they're 6624.
Judge (07:25:41):
Perfect. All right. Thank you.
(07:25:45)
Any argument on behalf of the state?
State (07:25:47):
Judge, I would argue that these photos, Investigator Kelly has testified as to what he did with these photos. He's not giving any kind of opinion, he's just stating. And we have in our report where he adjusts brightness and contrast, that's what anyone can do on their phone. And so I think he's laid the foundation on what he did to these photos and we would ask that they be admitted.
Judge (07:26:16):
Mr. Britt?
Mr. Britt (07:26:18):
Your Honor, what it does, it takes the original, and while he doesn't use the word alter, it enhances it in such a way to change the image. I mean, I know they'll say it doesn't change the image, but to the naked eye, that photograph in its original state, the result becomes the enhancement has greater prejudicial weight and effect than the probative value.
(07:26:46)
As I understand, what they're trying to do is show a circular mark on the front of her neck, which Dr. Kelly said a little bit about, but not a tremendous amount to establish what it actually was.
Judge (07:27:08):
All right. Thank you.
(07:27:12)
With regard to State's Exhibit 93, I do not believe that their prejudicial effect outweighs its probative value. I do not believe that the change from the originals changes it significant enough that it will mislead the jury. Therefore, I will allow State's Exhibit 93 with the addition of the original photos. Though I don't believe that it is misleading to the jury, I do think that the jury needs to have all of the originals in order to be able to make the comparison. So I will allow that with the introduction of the originals.
Mr. Britt (07:27:56):
Fine.
State (07:27:58):
Thank you, Judge.
Judge (07:27:59):
Thank you.
(07:27:59)
All right, let's go ahead ... Or do you all need a minute before we bring the jury back in?
State (07:28:07):
I'm good, Judge.
Mr. Britt (07:28:07):
[inaudible 07:28:07]?
State (07:28:07):
It should be in there. [inaudible 07:28:22].
Mr. Britt (07:28:23):
Thanks so much. [inaudible 07:28:25].
State (07:28:23):
Yes, Judge. We're good.
Judge (07:28:26):
Okay. Let's go ahead and bring the jury back in.
Bailiff (07:28:28):
Bring in the jury. Jury is seated.
Judge (07:29:18):
Thank you, sir. Let the record reflect that the jury has reentered the courtroom.
(07:29:22)
Members of the jury, State's Exhibit 93 will be admitted into evidence.
(07:29:27)
State, you may proceed.
State (07:29:28):
Thank you, Judge. I want to go back to the photos you received to enhance. Did you receive three photos?
Eric Kelley (07:29:40):
Yes, I did.
State (07:29:41):
To your knowledge, were they from the autopsy of Peyton Fields?
Eric Kelley (07:29:45):
I was advised that they were from the autopsy. Yes, ma'am.
State (07:29:49):
And I want to ... Judge, if I may republish State's 80?
Judge (07:29:52):
You may.
(07:29:53)
And again, this is not for broadcast.
State (07:30:27):
6624.
(07:30:27)
And Judge, if I may publish image 6624 from State's 80?
Judge (07:30:38):
You may.
(07:30:38)
Is it not coming up on your screen, Mr. Britt?
Mr. Britt (07:30:52):
No, sir.
Judge (07:30:52):
[inaudible 07:30:53].
Mr. Britt (07:30:53):
Yep.
Judge (07:30:53):
[inaudible 07:30:53].
Mr. Britt (07:30:53):
Oh, sorry.
State (07:30:53):
Investigator Kelly, is this one of the autopsy photos you received to enhance?
Eric Kelley (07:30:57):
Yes, ma'am. I believe it is.
State (07:30:58):
Thank you.
(07:30:59)
[inaudible 07:31:10].
Mr. Britt (07:30:59):
[inaudible 07:31:15].
State (07:31:14):
And did you review two other autopsy photos to enhance?
Eric Kelley (07:31:20):
Yes.
State (07:31:21):
May I approach?
Judge (07:31:22):
You may.
State (07:31:24):
It's 94 [inaudible 07:31:26].
Mr. Britt (07:31:24):
Okay.
State (07:31:30):
And I'm showing you what's been marked as State's 94, which is a disc. Do you recognize that?
Eric Kelley (07:31:34):
I do.
State (07:31:36):
And what does it contain?
Eric Kelley (07:31:37):
This contains the balance of the three, so the two other autopsy photographs.
State (07:31:42):
And these are the two you received to enhance of Peyton Field's neck?
Eric Kelley (07:31:45):
Correct. Those are the originals. Or those are the ones that I received.
State (07:31:51):
No changes?
Eric Kelley (07:31:53):
No, not that I'm aware of.
State (07:31:55):
Judge, State would move to enter State's 94 into evidence.
Judge (07:31:58):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (07:31:59):
Yes, sir. For the record.
Judge (07:32:00):
State's Exhibit 94 will be admitted into evidence over objection.
State (07:32:04):
And may I publish?
Judge (07:32:05):
You may.
State (07:32:06):
Is this one of the photos you received to enhance?
Eric Kelley (07:32:56):
Yes, ma'am.
State (07:32:58):
For the record, I'm publishing 83 and now publishing 84.
(07:33:03)
Was this another photo you received to enhance?
Eric Kelley (07:33:06):
Yes, ma'am.
State (07:33:21):
You mentioned earlier you adjusted things like brightness and contrast. Is that correct?
Eric Kelley (07:33:26):
It is.
State (07:33:29):
Did you type up what exactly you adjusted and how much you adjusted it by?
Eric Kelley (07:33:35):
I did so, yes.
State (07:33:36):
On each of the three photos we just saw?
Eric Kelley (07:33:38):
Yes, ma'am.
State (07:33:40):
May I approach?
Judge (07:33:40):
You may.
State (07:33:54):
I'm showing you what I've marked as State's 95. Do you recognize that document?
Eric Kelley (07:33:59):
Yes. These are the adjustments that were made to the three photographs.
State (07:34:04):
And you wrote down in each category such as brightness, contrast, saturation, et cetera, that what you did to adjust the pixels?
Eric Kelley (07:34:15):
That is correct.
State (07:34:15):
And that accurately reflects what you did for each photo?
Eric Kelley (07:34:18):
Yes, ma'am.
State (07:34:19):
Judge, the state would move to enter State's 95.
Judge (07:34:20):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (07:34:20):
Objection.
Judge (07:34:25):
State's Exhibit 95 will be admitted into evidence over objection.
State (07:34:28):
And may I publish?
Judge (07:34:28):
You may.
State (07:34:32):
I know that's a little small. I'll zoom in a little bit.
Eric Kelley (07:34:35):
Thank you.
State (07:34:35):
But is that reflecting each labeled photograph?
Eric Kelley (07:34:40):
It does. As you can see at the top there, ending in 6624, these are the starting values and then the ending values as I adjusted them. For instance, number one, brightness, number two, contrast, and so on. The middle one, 0083, those are the values that were adjusted for that photograph. And then now for 0084, those are the values for that photograph.
State (07:35:07):
And you also did some zooming as well, correct?
Eric Kelley (07:35:09):
Correct. So the original photograph that was provided to me, I zoomed in from that photograph and the degree to which I zoomed in is documented there.
State (07:35:29):
Judge, at this time, I would like to publish the three photographs from State's Exhibit 93.
Judge (07:35:34):
You may.
State (07:35:38):
And Judge, I believe 93 has been admitted?
Judge (07:35:40):
It has been admitted, yes. When the jury came back, I informed the jury that State's Exhibit 93 had been admitted into evidence.
State (07:36:06):
And Investigator Kelly, State's 93, are those three images with your adjustments? Is that correct?
Eric Kelley (07:36:13):
That is correct.
State (07:36:14):
And once again, you aren't modifying the photograph in a way that you're adding anything or taking away, you're just simply adjusting how you see it. Is that correct?
Eric Kelley (07:36:28):
It is, that's correct. In other words, there's no items or anything like that that's been added to it. It's simply adjusting the values of the pixels.
(07:36:39)
So a digital image is just made up of usually millions of pixels, just tiny squares of color, basically. If you've ever taken a photograph and then zoomed in as much as you could possibly zoom in, when you get to the end, you'll just see one block of color and then beside it will be another block of color that'll be of the same or similar. And so the adjustments, the enhancements are simply changing the values of the entire photograph.
(07:37:10)
For brightness, if I were to change it from its original, and then I forget what the value was, but if I were to increase it by a value of 10, then it would increase the entire photograph brightness, each pixel, in other words, by a value of 10 to make it brighter. But the same goes for making it darker. The only real exception to that is for something like contrast. Contrast is really just separating the lines between light and dark pixels. So if I adjust contrast, the contrast values still apply to the entire photograph, but for the lighter pixels, it will keep those at a certain degree, there's a mathematical algorithm that's used in contrast, but it will make usually the darker pixels darker, so that if I can increase the contrast, it can make something that wasn't as dark show through the photograph.
(07:38:08)
But again, nothing that the original camera taking the photograph ... Whatever that photograph was of, that camera took through the lens, nothing is added to that. Each pixel is the original pixel, just increased in value and color up or down to increase the clarity of the image.
State (07:38:31):
So you're not photoshopping anything on there?
Eric Kelley (07:38:34):
No, absolutely not.
State (07:38:37):
If I may publish 83?
Judge (07:38:37):
You may.
State (07:38:39):
Photo 83.
(07:38:39)
And this is photograph 83 that you enhanced on State's Exhibit 93, is that correct?
Eric Kelley (07:38:54):
Yes, ma'am.
State (07:38:57):
And now I'm publishing photo 84 from State's 93. Once again, photograph you enhanced?
Eric Kelley (07:39:06):
That is correct.
State (07:39:08):
And lastly, photograph 6624, once again, an enhanced photograph that you used?
Eric Kelley (07:39:15):
Correct. Yes, ma'am.
State (07:39:20):
Nothing further, Judge.
Judge (07:39:21):
Cross-examination?
Mr. Britt (07:39:27):
Detective Kelly, you're saying that you're not altering the image?
Eric Kelley (07:39:35):
Well, in the technical sense ... It's a vague question; was the image altered? Yes, the image was altered. It has to be altered because an image, again, is just a collection of pixels. So any ... I'm speaking forensically. Forensically speaking, if I change even one value to one degree, then the image, again, from the vague question, the image certainly would be altered.
Mr. Britt (07:40:00):
So when we look at the original photographs, you don't see as much in the original as you may see in the enhanced?
Eric Kelley (07:40:11):
That is correct. Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (07:40:13):
I don't have any other questions.
Judge (07:40:18):
Redirect?
State (07:40:20):
Just briefly, was this the only involvement you had in this case?
Eric Kelley (07:40:23):
Yes.
State (07:40:24):
You don't really know much about it, do you?
Eric Kelley (07:40:26):
I do not.
State (07:40:27):
Nothing further, Judge.
Judge (07:40:28):
Re-cross?
Mr. Britt (07:40:29):
No, sir.
Judge (07:40:30):
Is this witness subject to recall?
State (07:40:30):
No, Judge.
Mr. Britt (07:40:30):
No, sir.
Judge (07:40:34):
All right, sir, you're released from your obligations with your subpoena. You may step down. You're free to go.
Eric Kelley (07:40:37):
Thank you.
Judge (07:40:38):
Thank you.
Eric Kelley (07:40:42):
[inaudible 07:40:43].
State (07:40:42):
That's all right.
(07:40:42)
[inaudible 07:40:52].
Judge (07:40:52):
All right, members of the jury, we will break for the day.
(07:40:56)
Just for your information, it has been brought to my attention that one of your members has had a family member pass away. Because of that, to accommodate, we will not be having court on Friday. The whole day you will have off. But we will reconvene tomorrow morning, so go ahead and take your red badges off, clip them to your notebooks.
(07:41:19)
As you go home, remember, do not discuss this case amongst yourselves. Do not discuss this case with anybody else, including friends, family members, or coworkers. Do not have any contact with any of the parties, attorneys, or witnesses. Do not conduct any independent investigation or inquiry. If you have to go by any of the locations that have been mentioned, you may pass by them, but you are not allowed to stop and conduct any other inquiry. You're not allowed to post online on any social media sites regarding your experience as a juror or any of the evidence that you've seen or heard.
(07:41:52)
We'll go ahead and excuse you until 9:30 tomorrow morning.
Bailiff (07:41:56):
Thank you, Your Honor. Please make sure your juror badges are attached [inaudible 07:42:01] closed notebook and [inaudible 07:42:06].
(07:42:06)
[inaudible 07:42:06] this way.
Speaker 19 (07:42:06):
[inaudible 07:42:11].
Bailiff (07:42:06):
The jury's left the court, Your Honor.
Judge (07:42:41):
Thank you, sir. Let the record reflect that the jury has exited the courtroom.
(07:42:45)
Is there anything we need to discuss on behalf of the defense?
Mr. Britt (07:42:47):
No, sir.
Judge (07:42:48):
On behalf of the state?
Speaker 19 (07:42:49):
No, Your Honor.
Judge (07:42:50):
We'll be in recess until 9:30 tomorrow morning.
Bailiff (07:42:53):
Court will be in recess-
