Judge Dean Bucci (17:48):
All right, so as I understand from yesterday, the prosecutor's going to play a video. There's no speaking, so there's no transcript, right?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Well, Your Honor, there is some video of the beginning of the interview and there's some video at the end of the interview where she does her handwritten statement, but I having thought about it last night, I think I'm just going to let the detective just identify her written statement and not even play the video.
Judge Dean Bucci (18:17):
Okay. Very good. Are y'all ready for the jury?
Brian Steel (18:22):
Yes, sir. May I introduce the court and all of your coworkers? Ms. Gabby [inaudible 00:18:31] and no disrespect. She has finals coming up at law school. This is Ms. Anne Bly, which is-
Judge Dean Bucci (18:38):
Hey, welcome.
Brian Steel (18:39):
B-L-Y. And she is exceptional person. I get to work with her and we've tried cases together. She's deciding on whether to go to law school.
Judge Dean Bucci (18:52):
All right. Well, happy to have you here.
Jason Treadaway (18:56):
And unfortunately, I don't mean any disrespect. I'm not so happy to have her here, 'cause what if this lady's aunt is on the jury? I don't know. I wasn't able to ask the jury if they knew this person. I wasn't able to ask the jury if they recognize this person. And it's improper like this to come and start bringing new parties in, especially sitting at the table. That's improper. I have a right to ask if anybody knows this young lady. I wasn't able to do that. That's not right. I object to that.
Judge Dean Bucci (19:22):
Okay. All right. So I think the request is you would like to inquire of the jurors if they know her.
Jason Treadaway (19:28):
No, Your Honor. My request is that this young lady sit in the gallery and act like any other observer because it's going to bring all this attention to it and disrupt the flow of the trial, to bring people in. You know, it's like, this is not ... This shouldn't happen. I mean, this is just inappropriate. And I'm sorry, it's no disrespect to this young lady, but it's just not appropriate. You can't just sub people in and out because somebody might know this lady. They might be her neighbor, friend or even her aunt.
Judge Dean Bucci (19:57):
All right. Thank you, Mr. Treadaway. Mr. Steel, do you have anything to say about that?
Brian Steel (20:03):
No. If that's a concern, I would just ask the court maybe to introduce or I could introduce her and see if anybody knows her. I would ask if she stays here. She helps me with some of the exhibits.
Judge Dean Bucci (20:17):
Okay. Well, I want to be accommodating to everybody, but let me do this. Let me ask her to step behind the bar and that'll give me a chance to do just a little bit of research and then I can address it at first break. Okay?
Brian Steel (20:31):
Yes, sir.
Judge Dean Bucci (20:32):
All right. Is that everybody? All right. At this point, are we ready for the jury?
Brian Steel (20:52):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yes, Your Honor.
Judge Dean Bucci (21:39):
All right. Jury, please.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
[inaudible 00:21:39].
Judge Dean Bucci (21:46):
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back. We're going to pick up where we left off, and I believe we had a witness on the stand. Is that right?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
He's in the lobby.
Judge Dean Bucci (21:58):
Okay. We'll need ...
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I'll get him.
Judge Dean Bucci (22:31):
Sir, you're still under oath. You understand that?
Officer Ogden (22:32):
Yes, sir.
Judge Dean Bucci (22:33):
All right. Thank you. You can have a seat. Thank you.
Officer Ogden (22:34):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
When we concluded yesterday, you were on the stand and you were talking about meeting this defendant again in January of 2020. Do you recall that?
Officer Ogden (22:50):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
And what were the circumstances of that encounter?
Officer Ogden (22:55):
To have a statement written to add to the case file.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
And when you said have a statement written, what exactly do you mean by that?
Officer Ogden (23:06):
So with me just talking to her, just through my training, I've always been taught if you can get a written statement that helps with any case. So at that point, I had contacted Lacy about coming in to write a statement, which some scheduling and whatnot, she ended up coming in on the 7th of January of 2020 to come write the statement of the incident of what occurred.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
And so she arranged to come in and give a statement on January. Was that January 7th of 2020?
Officer Ogden (23:43):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
And how was that conducted? How was that statement conducted?
Officer Ogden (23:50):
It's in the same interview room where I had interviewed her back on the 30th, and basically she went in there. I showed her the statement forms, showed her what she needed to fill out, and then just told her to write a detailed statement about what happened that night in her own words.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Was she threatened in any way to give a statement to you that day?
Officer Ogden (24:11):
No, sir.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Was she promised any type of reward to give a statement to you that day?
Officer Ogden (24:17):
No, sir.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Was there the slightest hope of benefit or the remotest fear of injury for her to give you a statement that day?
Officer Ogden (24:26):
No, sir.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
And the statement she gave, was it freely and voluntarily given?
Officer Ogden (24:30):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Now, when she gave this statement, how was she advised to produce this written statement? How was that explained to her?
Officer Ogden (24:45):
Basically, I just told her just to be detailed of the incident and just in her own words, I couldn't tell her what to write, but just be as detailed about everything that had happened that night. And at that point, when she was okay or understood and what she was doing, I basically left the room and let her write.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Now, while she was writing this statement, who was in the room with her while she was writing that statement?
Officer Ogden (25:35):
She was by herself.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Hm?
Officer Ogden (25:38):
She was by herself.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
She was by herself.
Officer Ogden (25:39):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
And ...
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
[inaudible 00:26:10].
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Officer Ogden, I show you what has previously been marked for identification as State's Exhibit number 184, and it consists of seven pages, I mean, eight pages, and they are paper clipped together. I ask you if you recognize that document?
Officer Ogden (27:14):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
And what is that document?
Officer Ogden (27:16):
That is her written statement of January 7th.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
And when she completed writing this statement, what, if anything, did you do?
Officer Ogden (27:30):
I just made sure that she had signed it stating that that's her statement. I also signed it as a witness that that was her statement, and then she left.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Your Honor, at this time, the state tenders into evidence State's Exhibit number 184.
Brian Steel (27:46):
Same objection.
Judge Dean Bucci (27:48):
All right. It's admitted.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Now, Officer Ogden, I'll ask you if you would read those eight pages of the ... First of all, let me just display this a moment just so you can explain some of the writing on this document. This is page one of the handwritten statement, is that correct?
Officer Ogden (28:17):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
And you had her write page one, and is this her handwriting here that I'm pointing at with the name Lacy Boles, or is that yours?
Officer Ogden (28:27):
That's her handwriting.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Okay. And is all of this on here, her handwriting that I'm pointing at right now going through the body of it and on the left side of the document?
Officer Ogden (28:37):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And is this her signature at the bottom?
Officer Ogden (28:40):
That is.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
And whose signature is this over here?
Officer Ogden (28:43):
That is my signature.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
And when did you sign that document?
Officer Ogden (28:47):
After she signed it, that was her statement. I went through and signed my name as well.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Okay. Now I'm going to ask you if you could go ahead and just read this document into evidence. It's eight pages.
Officer Ogden (29:09):
" Dan was acting out of character Saturday, December 21st. Actually, starting from that Monday, his demeanor had changed, very out of the normal on Saturday. He was going to the store to get a key made, tampons, and toilet paper. Around 1:00 PM-ish, he left with Gage to go to the store. I started getting concerned because he was gone for so long. We did communicate some about getting my daughter, Skyler, a pic. He also texted me about a video I sent the day prior of our son Daniel saying, 'Hut, hut.' He said ... I asked, 'Is that your sister's voice? It doesn't sound like you.' I then asked through text where he was, why he had been gone so long. Almost three hours had passed, and to get a key made, get tampons, and toilet paper, it shouldn't take that long. When he did return, it was around 4:30 or so. He seemed still, just not himself, very distant, disassociated from the babies, Emerson and Daniel. Gage went straight to his top bunk after they returned and didn't get off his top bunk until we left to go to my dad's car lot."
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Officer, let me stop you a minute-
Officer Ogden (30:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
... and ask you if you could just turn toward the jury and also use the mic so you're speaking directly into the mic so your voice can be heard a little easier.
Officer Ogden (30:28):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
And you can continue.
Officer Ogden (30:32):
Okay. So, "Very distant, disassociated from the babies, Emerson and Daniel. Gage went straight to his top bunk after they returned and didn't get off his top bunk until we left to go to my dad's car lot. The reason we left being, Dan had gotten physical with me in the kitchen trying to take my cell phone. He wrapped me up, choking me out, asking who had I been taking to and was I recording him. I uttered out, 'No one,' and, 'No,' for him to just take my cell phone. He did indeed took my cell phone and left. I then loaded the babies up and went to my dad's car lot, shaken and upset. I made it to my father's car lot and met him and talked with him and told him Dan was acting strange, that I couldn't call him because he had taken my cell phone. My dad rode with me to the gas station, put gas in my car and bought me cigarettes. He then told the babies he would get them McDonald's chicken nuggets and fries. I never told my father Dan got physical with me.
(31:44)
When the babies and I returned home, my cell phone was on the counter, but Dan wasn't home. My dad called my cell just to see if I had gotten it back or if maybe Dan would answer. I answered and he told me he would be coming over with food within the hour. My dad's been coming by for the past two years almost every Saturday night. Gage went straight back to his top bunk when he got home and the babies were in the bedroom with me where I was changing diapers. I walked out of the bedroom and Dan was standing in the kitchen. It startled me. I forgot he had just had a key made and didn't hear him come in. He looked at me and said, 'Weirdo, why are you jumping?' He then went into the living room and sat down and Emerson, our daughter, who is three, sat down beside him and told him Pawpaw was bringing over nuggets and fries and that we had been at his car lot.
(32:37)
He looked at her and said, 'Stop lying,' pretty harshly. Then said, 'You don't have to lie for your mom anymore.' Then I said, 'Dan, please don't call her a liar. It's true. My dad will be here any minute with food.' He said, 'Yeah, right. And I doubt you went to your dad's car lot.' Then there was a knock at the door. It was my dad with food. He walked up the stairs and I looked at him and shook my head as in, 'Let it go,' basically that I wasn't trying to fight with Dan, 'So don't say anything about him taking my cell phone.' My dad sat on the couch and I was setting up the high chairs for the babies to eat. Dan looked at my dad and said, 'You didn't have to bring food. There's plenty of food here.' Which was very strange. Dan had never once spoken like that to my dad. Normally it was a thank you.
(33:29)
Emerson and Daniel proceeded to eat, but Gage remained on his top bunk and for him to not want to come down and see my dad was just so off to me. After the babies ate, we all went downstairs to smoke. Me, Dan, my dad, Emerson and Daniel. Gage still remained on his top bunk. Dan went straight to his car to smoke though, which wasn't at all like him. My dad and Emerson and Daniel remained in the garage. The garage door was cracked and I even went up to Dan's car and asked why he was in his car. He said he didn't want to argue with me and I was a liar and he knew I had been recording him. I just shook my head, went back into the garage, but Emmy and Daniel went out and got in the car with Dan. They came back in the garage not long after and that's when we saw Dan's headlights come on and he left. This was about 9:15, 9:20 PM.
(34:24)
He's never left that late, especially without explanation, especially with my dad there and didn't say bye, didn't say anything. My dad and I thought it to be very strange and I told my dad I thought he was just so off, possibly on something. My dad left around 10:00 PM. I was exhausted and had been exchanging some texts with him and told him there were two things I would divorce him for. One being if he were on drugs and two being if he were cheating. I never thought he was cheating on me, was leaning more towards drugs and I can't make out what this word is."
Speaker 1 (35:01):
All right. Well, just-
Detective Ogden (35:01):
[inaudible 00:35:00]
Mr. Cole (35:00):
All right. Well, just read over what you can.
Detective Ogden (35:05):
Okay. "... that in my text. I then blocked him." Yeah, it was after drugs.
Mr. Cole (35:24):
Is that [inaudible 00:35:26]
Detective Ogden (35:26):
She said that he was she was leaning more towards drugs and I can't make out what that says.
Mr. Cole (35:31):
Okay. [inaudible 00:35:34]
Detective Ogden (35:34):
Okay. "... stating that in my text. I then blocked him on Facebook so he couldn't message me on my cell phone. My dad called around 11:00 or a little after. Dan still wasn't home. I told my dad I was tired and I went to go lay down with the babies. I set up a Swiffer and dustpan on stick to hear if Dan did come home since he now had a key. I think it was after 12:00 when I heard the stuff knock over. I got up and saw the back of Dan's head going straight downstairs. I proceeded to follow him just to ask where he had been, what was going on. When I walked through the door, he had the gun almost to his mouth saying something like, 'You can't save me. You can't help me.' I reached out and grabbed his forearm, same forearm the gun was in, his left screaming, 'No, no, no.' Bam, a sound that haunt me."
(36:44)
"I fell with Dan when he fell, fell on top of him. I touched all over his hand, left, tried to give him CPR and ran upstairs to call 911. While being on the phone with the 911 operator, she asked if I could get the gun, if he was beyond help. I ran back downstairs, grabbed the gun, threw it down, grabbed Dan hand again, grabbed his arm again, crawling up him, giving him one last chest compression and there was blood everywhere coming out of his nose, his face. I had blood on me from the first CPR attempt. I saw a camo, I guess, gun case when I was going back upstairs screaming. I just out of natural reaction, put it back in the safe in our bedroom closet. I don't think it was even locked. I think I just put it in and turned it. I'm not sure. The babies, Emerson and Daniel were awake crying at this point. Gage still asleep. I was still on the phone with 911 at this point in a state of shock, confusion. I felt like I was going to stroke out."
(37:53)
I believe that's instantly. "The police came through the door pretty quickly. The sheriff had the babies in the room and the EMT took me to the living room. I couldn't calm down. I called my daughter Schuyler, who lives three minutes from me, three times with no answer. And the EMT actually called my mom so she could get the babies and they could take me to the hospital. I was hysterical when my mom arrived. I vaguely remember being walked down the steps by whoever walked me down then the EMT guys, I guess, begging them not to make me go all the way downstairs where Dan was. I was put in an ambulance, drove to the hospital, put in a room and an IV was put in my arm of fluids and Ativan. I later learned my sister showed up at the hospital along with my daughter and her boyfriend. My sister took me to my mom's after I was released by the doctor with Zofran and Xanax prescriptions."
Mr. Cole (38:50):
Now is that the entire statement that she wrote on January 7th of 2020?
Detective Ogden (38:53):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Cole (38:56):
And did you in any way influence her to write any of those words on that page as far as what to say?
Detective Ogden (39:02):
No, sir.
Mr. Cole (39:03):
All right. That's all the questions I have. Who's with you?
Judge Dean C. Bucci (39:03):
Cross examination.
Mr. Steel (40:04):
We all hope the pregnancy went well.
Detective Ogden (40:07):
It did, sir. I have a six-year-old son.
Mr. Steel (40:11):
So the statement you just read that Lacy made, you actually did record that?
Detective Ogden (40:18):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (40:19):
And when I say record it, it's in evidence. You identified it yesterday and the jurors in your presence were handed out transcripts, right?
Detective Ogden (40:28):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (40:29):
And it videos and audios any discussion that you did have with Lacy?
Detective Ogden (40:35):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (40:36):
And then you left the room and you left her too, so she wasn't disturbed to write out the statement you just read?
Detective Ogden (40:42):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (40:43):
And when you did that though, you continued the recording in the room, right?
Detective Ogden (40:49):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (40:50):
And you observed her as well?
Detective Ogden (40:52):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (40:53):
And you know, and if I'm wrong, please tell the jurors, she just wrote that statement you just read continuously, true?
Detective Ogden (41:01):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (41:01):
She didn't stop and look around and walk around. I mean, it was just pen to paper, page after page. Is that all true?
Detective Ogden (41:09):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (41:09):
And if the jurors ever want to see it it's recorded, right?
Detective Ogden (41:12):
Correct. Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (41:13):
Okay. Now, in that meeting that you had with Lacy, I want to go back. This is really the third time that you had any personal observations of her, true?
Detective Ogden (41:31):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (41:32):
And when I say third time, I was wrong, this is really the fourth time, am I correct? Let me just ask a better question. You arrive on the scene of the house, Mr. Akers' house and Lacy's house, right?
Detective Ogden (41:48):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (41:49):
And Lacy's there when you get there?
Detective Ogden (41:51):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (41:52):
And you see her?
Detective Ogden (41:54):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (41:55):
And you're told who she is because you're learning what's going on, you're just arriving at the scene?
Detective Ogden (41:59):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (42:00):
And you know that it was recommended by the experts, the medical assistants, that she needs medical care?
Detective Ogden (42:07):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (42:08):
And they suggested, told her, "You need to go to the hospital."
Detective Ogden (42:12):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (42:13):
Because she could have a medical emergency going on?
Detective Ogden (42:17):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (42:18):
And you were not going to stop that?
Detective Ogden (42:20):
That's correct.
Mr. Steel (42:21):
Because if the EMTs and the paramedics and your coworkers say, "There's something very wrong here," you're not going to say, "Hold on, I need to interview her." True?
Detective Ogden (42:32):
That's true, yes.
Mr. Steel (42:34):
But you could, and you did, follow her to the hospital?
Detective Ogden (42:38):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (42:39):
And you did that because you wanted to observe her and take a statement from her, right?
Detective Ogden (42:44):
Yes, sir. And the consent to search.
Mr. Steel (42:46):
In addition to allow law enforcement to gather all the evidence in the case?
Detective Ogden (42:52):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (42:53):
But you also went there, obviously, I know this is your first murder case that you're the lead detective.
Detective Ogden (43:00):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (43:01):
But you've done other murder cases, right?
Detective Ogden (43:03):
As a patrol officer, yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (43:05):
Yeah. I mean, you've assisted.
Detective Ogden (43:06):
Correct. Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (43:07):
And armed robberies, God forbid, and rapes. I mean, you're a career law enforcement officer.
Detective Ogden (43:12):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (43:13):
And you're trained to observe, that's what really investigators, police officers do. You have to take in a lot of information and try to figure out what to do.
Detective Ogden (43:23):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (43:24):
And that's what you did here?
Detective Ogden (43:26):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (43:27):
And you were trying to gather information best you could?
Detective Ogden (43:30):
Yes.
Mr. Steel (43:30):
And preserve it?
Detective Ogden (43:31):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (43:32):
And you're not conceited or close-minded. You admitted several times, "I relied on other people."
Detective Ogden (43:39):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (43:39):
Because you wanted to get it right.
Detective Ogden (43:41):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (43:42):
And Major Pace has a lot of experience. All the officers, you were open. You were not telling them, "I'm in charge. Don't bother me." You were the opposite. You're like, "Help me. Let's get this right."
Detective Ogden (43:53):
That's correct.
Mr. Steel (43:54):
Including Amanda Carter?
Detective Ogden (43:56):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (43:57):
And when you went to the hospital, you knew that you wanted to ask Lacy for consent to search, you brought the form with you?
Detective Ogden (44:05):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (44:05):
And you were prepared?
Detective Ogden (44:06):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (44:07):
And you also knew that you wanted to interrogate her. Wait, that's maybe the wrong word, speak with her.
Detective Ogden (44:13):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (44:14):
But she was so hysterical at the hospital, you were like, "I'll talk to you, but this is not working out well. You have medical issues going on."
Detective Ogden (44:22):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (44:23):
But she did talk with you and told you she tried to stop her husband from committing suicide?
Detective Ogden (44:29):
That's correct.
Mr. Steel (44:30):
And we don't have a recording of that conversation though?
Detective Ogden (44:34):
No, sir.
Mr. Steel (44:35):
And you carried your cell phone with you?
Detective Ogden (44:37):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (44:38):
Because when you got the Consent to Search Form, you didn't just drive back like the old days. I mean, you made a phone call and said, "She signed the Consent to Search. Get started."
Detective Ogden (44:46):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (44:48):
And that cell phone you had in 2019 on December 22nd had a recording of capabilities. It's just like the jurors are my cell phone, right?
Detective Ogden (44:57):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (44:58):
And you knew that at the time, right?
Detective Ogden (45:00):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (45:01):
So you could have, in fact, you should have. I'm not trying to be picky with you, but you should have walked in that hospital room with the recording going. Is that fair to say?
Detective Ogden (45:11):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (45:12):
And we lost, based upon your dropping the ball, we lost that evidence of what exactly Lacy said.
Detective Ogden (45:23):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (45:24):
But you're doing your best to tell the jurors what you remember.
Detective Ogden (45:27):
Correct. Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (45:29):
Also in that capability of that cell phone is videoing, right?
Detective Ogden (45:37):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (45:38):
And also cameras or picture taking, right?
Detective Ogden (45:40):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (45:41):
And we wouldn't have to guess what Lacy looked like when you saw her at the hospital because you could have just taken pictures of her or videoed her with or without her permission, right?
Detective Ogden (45:53):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (45:54):
But you didn't do that either?
Detective Ogden (45:55):
I did not.
Mr. Steel (45:58):
At the house when Lacy was there walking out of the house, you have information, you testified that her hands were bloody?
Detective Ogden (46:06):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (46:06):
And I know you just got there when she was leaving, but nobody on your team, I'm including all your teammates, the law enforcement, nobody even took a picture of her, what she looked like. Do you realize that?
Detective Ogden (46:20):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (46:21):
So this blood in the sink, you know what I'm talking about? If you don't, there's exhibits the jurors-
Detective Ogden (46:27):
The upstairs bedroom. Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (46:29):
And if you need to see anything, just say, "I just want to see the image."
Detective Ogden (46:33):
Okay.
Mr. Steel (46:34):
I'm assuming you know what I talking about.
Detective Ogden (46:37):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (46:38):
You testified about it on direct examination.
Detective Ogden (46:40):
Yes, sir. I did.
Mr. Steel (46:41):
And it has become an issue, I guess here that Lacy said she didn't wash her hands, yet there's some apparent blood in the sink.
Detective Ogden (46:52):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (46:52):
Which may mean somebody washed their hands, their face, whatever, their hair, right?
Detective Ogden (46:56):
Correct. Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (46:58):
And it looks like blood to me, but I'm not an expert. I'm assuming you're not a blood expert. Is that true?
Detective Ogden (47:04):
That's true.
Mr. Steel (47:05):
But it does have the appearance of blood. Is that fair to say?
Detective Ogden (47:08):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (47:10):
I'm not saying it can't be another substance, but to my eye and your eye, it appears to be blood.
Detective Ogden (47:14):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (47:18):
But to make sure it's blood, because we deal with as much confidence on the information we bring to a court and a jury, true?
Detective Ogden (47:27):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (47:27):
We want it. You want it to be the best evidence, right?
Detective Ogden (47:30):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (47:31):
That's why you did all this, right?
Detective Ogden (47:33):
Yes.
Mr. Steel (47:34):
That's why all the training and all the equipment and all the resources, because we want to capture all the information that can produce reliable results, right?
Detective Ogden (47:45):
Correct. Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (47:45):
But we never test swab and then test to determine whether that's even blood in the sink, is that correct?
Detective Ogden (47:52):
Yes, sir. We did not. Yeah.
Mr. Steel (47:53):
But assuming just for... And I'm not conceding it is because we shouldn't assume anything in a courtroom. Do you agree with that?
Detective Ogden (47:59):
I agree.
Mr. Steel (48:00):
But assuming that it's blood, you also know that Lacy was filled with blood. I mean, you were told that, right?
Detective Ogden (48:10):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (48:11):
And she was interacting with her mother and her children before she left the house, right?
Detective Ogden (48:15):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (48:16):
Upstairs, right off in that bedroom, right?
Detective Ogden (48:19):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (48:20):
And that bathroom is right off that bedroom, true?
Detective Ogden (48:23):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (48:24):
Do you know whether one of the children, the six-year-old, washed his hands in that sink?
Detective Ogden (48:30):
I do not know.
Mr. Steel (48:30):
Do you know whether the mother washed her hands in that sink?
Detective Ogden (48:33):
I do not know.
Mr. Steel (48:34):
What evidence do you have to tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury that Lacy Boles lied, knowingly lied, I'm not talking about mistaken, knowingly lied to law enforcement that she did not wash her hands in that house?
Detective Ogden (48:45):
I don't.
Mr. Steel (48:54):
When you get to the hospital, you don't remember, it's the passage of time, you just don't remember what Lacy was wearing?
Detective Ogden (49:03):
I do not. No, sir.
Mr. Steel (49:03):
She could have been wearing the bloody clothing that she had on when she left the house.
Detective Ogden (49:08):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (49:09):
She could have been changed because it... I've never been in that position. I hope no one has, but I'm assuming it's not comfortable to be walking around with the blood of your husband on your person.
Detective Ogden (49:24):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (49:24):
You could agree. I mean, she was hysterical.
Detective Ogden (49:26):
Right.
Mr. Steel (49:30):
Did you ask anybody for her clothing and get a change of clothing for her from the house or did you ever ask that you wanted to collect the clothing?
Detective Ogden (49:42):
I did not.
Mr. Steel (49:44):
Is that Lacy's doing.? Did she do something to cause the clothing not to go into law enforcement custody?
Detective Ogden (49:50):
No, sir.
Mr. Steel (49:51):
That was you and your team, true?
Detective Ogden (49:54):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (49:55):
And we lose those garments now forever, right?
Detective Ogden (50:00):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (50:00):
Because she actually told you, you asked for the clothing later, weeks later?
Detective Ogden (50:08):
She asked me for the clothing?
Mr. Steel (50:10):
No, you asked her, "Is the clothing available?" Do you remember asking that?
Detective Ogden (50:14):
I don't remember asking that.
Mr. Steel (50:16):
Okay. Well, if the clothing was thrown away, the bloody clothing of her husband when he committed suicide, or as the prosecutor was saying, when she killed him, is that odd that somebody doesn't want to keep the bloody clothing and have it as some sort of around the...
Detective Ogden (50:34):
Yes, sir. I would've dropped the ball on that one.
Mr. Steel (50:35):
Okay. I mean, you're not blaming Lacy or her family for getting rid of that clothing, are you?
Detective Ogden (50:42):
No, sir.
Mr. Steel (50:43):
And that clothing could have told the jurors whether she actually did try to grab the arm and fell on top of Mr. Akers when he fell, because he's bleeding almost instantaneously when he takes that gunshot. You realize that?
Detective Ogden (50:59):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (51:00):
Because it's just like if you punch me in the nose hard enough, I mean, some people have had bloody nose. The blood, I'm not saying it's instant. I'm not saying it's you hit and the blood come, but it's fairly quick that the blood would flow from my nose if you hit me in the position that you caused a vessel to break, true?
Detective Ogden (51:19):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (51:20):
And this is a gunshot into the nose, you realize that?
Detective Ogden (51:23):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (51:24):
You spoke with the medical examiner, you've seen all the photos, and you're aware of the findings, right?
Detective Ogden (51:30):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (51:32):
So if Lacy is trying to stop her husband, trying to grab his left arm, however she describes it, and the gun goes up his nose or wherever, but the gunshot goes off and she falls on top of him and tries to... And there's blood that she described coming out, her clothing could tell whether that really happened or not potentially, right?
Detective Ogden (52:00):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (52:00):
Because when she falls with her husband, she might have the blood kicking up on her clothing, which if she was shooting him from a distance, she wouldn't have that on her clothing, true?
Detective Ogden (52:13):
True.
Mr. Steel (52:14):
And what I say that is, if this was... I'm just using paint, but it's really blood, but I'm just using paint. If there was paint here, a source of paint, and I slammed my hand into it, you're aware that some of the paint would reverberate and get on my face, maybe my shoulder, because it's able to fly through the air, gravity would take it to land somewhere, true?
Detective Ogden (52:35):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (52:36):
But because you and the team, I'm not saying you, your team, they knew that Lacy was going to the hospital, right?
Detective Ogden (52:45):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (52:45):
They knew that there was clothing in the house, right?
Detective Ogden (52:47):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (52:48):
I mean, you're not there, you're walking in as the decision was made, she's got to go to the hospital immediately, right?
Detective Ogden (52:54):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (52:54):
But none of your teammates on the scene said, "Well, let's get her clothing," right? That didn't happen.
Detective Ogden (53:00):
That's correct.
Mr. Steel (53:01):
I mean, she didn't refuse to give over her clothing and change, right?
Detective Ogden (53:04):
No, she didn't.
Mr. Steel (53:08):
And if that blood from Mr. Akers, God forbid, as he takes that gunshot and slams down onto the ground and just free falls, his head's slamming into the floor, and if Lacy's really right on top of him, we would know if that story was true or not, potentially, if her clothing was there, right?
Detective Ogden (53:30):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (53:31):
We would also know potentially if her face had some sort of blood spatter on it, right?
Detective Ogden (53:37):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (53:38):
But because law enforcement didn't preserve this information, this evidence, I'll call it, the garments, the picture, the videos, we asked the jurors to decide on her demeanor or whether tears were coming out of her eyes. You realize what's going on here?
Detective Ogden (53:59):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (54:00):
I mean, do you realize the lack of evidence that was lost by law enforcement?
Detective Ogden (54:03):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (54:04):
And do you realize that putting her on trial and saying, "Well, I don't see tears," I mean, that's interesting. I mean, you're smart, so you observe that.
Detective Ogden (54:12):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (54:13):
But what if the lack of tears has caused something physical? I mean, do you know?
Detective Ogden (54:23):
I wouldn't know. No, sir.
Mr. Steel (54:25):
I mean, how many tears can I have? It's fluid, tears of fluid?
Detective Ogden (54:29):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (54:32):
I mean, if something happened, God forbid, that was very personal to me and I'm crying, isn't there a point that I can't cry anymore?
Detective Ogden (54:38):
That's true. Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (54:40):
And do you know what Lacy was doing when she was in your presence on December 30th of 2019, what she was doing before she agreed to come into the sheriff's office? Was she crying?
Detective Ogden (54:56):
I don't know.
Mr. Steel (54:57):
Were tears coming from her eyes?
Detective Ogden (54:59):
I wouldn't know that before.
Mr. Steel (55:00):
Do you know whether Lacy slept in the past eight days when she came to you?
Detective Ogden (55:05):
I have no idea.
Mr. Steel (55:07):
Do you know whether she was dehydrated?
Detective Ogden (55:10):
No, sir.
Mr. Steel (55:11):
You have no idea?
Detective Ogden (55:12):
No idea.
Mr. Steel (55:14):
So this observation, which is remarkable, we're all commending you. We thank you for bringing that out because we want the information, but you're not saying that's evidence of guilt, are you?
Detective Ogden (55:25):
No, sir.
Mr. Steel (55:26):
It's just an observation.
Detective Ogden (55:27):
Observation.
Mr. Steel (55:31):
With regards to Lacy again, and I know you get on the scene when she's leaving, but law enforcement, typically, when there's a gunshot and she's on 911 and you're getting... When I say you, the team is getting updates from 911, I'm not saying you're listening to the recording, but the dispatchers give an idea, person says husband committed suicide, person shot, emergency, ambulances, Metro, right?
Detective Ogden (56:01):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (56:03):
And it's commonplace today to test somebody if there was a gunshot for gunshot residue, is that fair?
Detective Ogden (56:14):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (56:16):
And gunshot residue is left on areas where the gun was fired, depending upon the gun, depending upon the environment, depending upon the collection method, it could be found potentially in the area where a gun is fired, is that right?
Detective Ogden (56:33):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (56:34):
And the reason that is because, and the jurors have seen the revolver. If you need to see it, it's fine, but especially with a revolver as opposed to a semi-automatic firearm, handgun, there's openings to the revolver. It's not sealed perfectly except for the muzzle of the gun. Is that true?
Detective Ogden (56:56):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (56:56):
And that has to be because there's a hammer, which pulls back and gasses can escape the hammer, right?
Detective Ogden (57:04):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (57:05):
There's a cylinder that actually turns, it houses the next projectile, and therefore when it turns, it allows gases to escape, right?
Detective Ogden (57:15):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (57:15):
And then of course, the muzzle of the gun, gasses can escape from there, right?
Detective Ogden (57:19):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (57:20):
And then depending upon the condition of the weapon, weapons degrade over time, like people degrade or paper degrades, but things break or change, it's just a mechanical equipment, and sometimes gases can come from other parts of the weapon, depending upon the weapon.
Detective Ogden (57:37):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (57:39):
And when that weapon in the 22 I'm using in this case is discharged, not only does the projectile come out of the muzzle of the gun, but gases, and we can't see them, but gases come out, right?
Detective Ogden (57:55):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (57:55):
And some people talk about seeing the smoke, the smoking gun. They're talking about they were able to actually see the gases come out. They don't see the bullet, it's traveling too fast, but they see the gases, the gun was just fired, right?
Detective Ogden (58:07):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (58:08):
And those gases have ions in them, and some of them, there's three different types of chemicals, and they can go into a surface. They can go far, they can go shorter. I don't know. It depends on the gun and the environment, but they generally go in the area where the gun was fired, right?
Detective Ogden (58:29):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (58:30):
And if I'm holding a gun in my left hand and I pull the trigger, I do that generally, it doesn't have to be, but generally, I'm going to have some of those gases, that residue from firing the gun on my hands, maybe on my clothing in the area, true?
Detective Ogden (58:47):
True.
Mr. Steel (58:49):
And if Lacy was on top trying to stop Mr. Akers, so she puts herself on his left arm, the gun's here, she may have had some gunshot residue on her person too when the gun was discharged, right?
Detective Ogden (59:05):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (59:06):
Because it's not just the person who shoots it. If I'm next to the person who shot it, those chemicals, those elements really could get onto me too, even though I never touched the gun, right?
Detective Ogden (59:17):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (59:19):
But in this case, it would've been good to know whether Lacy's hands... Because you realize the allegation in the indictment is that Lacy pulled the trigger and killed her husband. You realize that?
Detective Ogden (59:30):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (59:34):
And Lacy, if she did that, she would generally, I'm not giving a percentage, it doesn't have to be perfect, but she probably would have gunshot residue on her person, on her hands, right?
Detective Ogden (59:47):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (59:48):
And at the scene, nobody tested her for gunshot residue, do you realize that?
Detective Ogden (59:55):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (59:55):
At the hospital, no one tested for gunshot residue, right?
Detective Ogden (59:59):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (59:59):
Now, sometimes it's a waste of time to test because if she had her hands washed, these chemicals can wipe off.
Detective Ogden (01:00:09):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (01:00:09):
Right? But you did have the foresight to test and preserve Mr. Akers' hands for gunshot residue, right?
Detective Ogden (01:00:22):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:00:23):
And if he pulled the trigger of the gun, he may have gunshot residue on his hands, right?
Detective Ogden (01:00:30):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (01:00:31):
And if he had his other hand, left hand pulling the trigger, his other hand in the vicinity of the gun, he might even have both hands filled with gunshot residue or at least some gunshot residue, right?
Detective Ogden (01:00:41):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:00:42):
And even if he didn't pull the trigger, and I'm not agreeing with this, but even if Lacy pulled the trigger, depending upon the environment, some of those particles could end up on his hands just because he's in the vicinity of a gun that was discharged, right?
Detective Ogden (01:00:57):
That's correct.
Mr. Steel (01:00:58):
So this is really not like DNA or I guess a fingerprint, but it's an interesting calculation to determine whether, in this case, Mr. Akers has gunshot residue on his hands, because if he doesn't have gunshot residue on his hands, it is just... It's another data point that maybe he didn't pull that trigger, right?
Detective Ogden (01:01:18):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:01:19):
And that's why you had that test done, right?
Detective Ogden (01:01:22):
I did not have that test done.
Mr. Steel (01:01:23):
Well, you had it preserved. I'm not saying you did the test, but you preserved his hands for gunshot residue.
Detective Ogden (01:01:29):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:01:30):
And that's why you did that, right?
Detective Ogden (01:01:32):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (01:01:33):
Because if his hands are not have gunshot residue on them, then that may be interesting to a jury that maybe he didn't actually possess the gun when it was fired, right?
Detective Ogden (01:01:45):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:01:46):
But if he did have gunshot residue on his hands, then maybe he did have the gun when he fired, right?
Detective Ogden (01:01:52):
That's possible, yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:01:53):
Do you know the results of his gunshot residue?
Detective Ogden (01:01:56):
I do not.
Mr. Steel (01:01:57):
Okay. You know it was tested though?
Detective Ogden (01:01:59):
I believe so. Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:02:01):
And there'll be people who can come in and say that he had or didn't have gunshot particles on his hands, right?
Detective Ogden (01:02:08):
I believe so, yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:02:08):
And those are the scientists that the jurors have heard talked about from the Georgia Crime Lab, right?
Detective Ogden (01:02:13):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (01:02:14):
All right. Okay. With regards to Lacy's state, and I'm talking about when you observed her, I know you're not a medical doctor, but you've observed people hysterical, fair?
Detective Ogden (01:02:34):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:02:35):
I mean, she was off the chart hysterical when you observed her, right?
Detective Ogden (01:02:38):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (01:02:39):
I mean, I think your word may have been, and if it's not your word, just I may be mixing up with this, inconsolable. I mean, it was not something you see every day, true?
Detective Ogden (01:02:52):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (01:02:53):
And nobody should really... I mean, this is real trauma, right?
Detective Ogden (01:02:58):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:02:59):
Either way, I mean, her husband is gushing blood in the house, and she's got three kids upstairs, two of them awake while she's on the phone with 911. I mean, this is trauma, right?
Detective Ogden (01:03:16):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:03:17):
And you realize that when somebody, or do you realize, when somebody is under trauma, stress, a situation that is unexpected and is overwhelming, that the brain doesn't always sequence things the same? You realize that, right?
Detective Ogden (01:03:37):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:03:38):
And they may remember something wrongly or correctly later that they didn't remember right away, true?
Detective Ogden (01:03:44):
That's correct.
Mr. Steel (01:03:44):
And they may remember something wrongly because there's some defense mechanism supposedly that just sequencing is just all wrong, right?
Detective Ogden (01:03:54):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:03:55):
And just like Lacy said in the statement you just read, she had to be told that her sister washed her hands at the hospital. She doesn't even remember that. You realize that?
Detective Ogden (01:04:05):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:04:06):
And that's not... I mean, she could be lying. I mean, no one could read her mind, but that could also be truthful just because it's overloaded, the body, the brain, it's just not working right. Is that all true?
Detective Ogden (01:04:23):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:04:23):
And you recognize that at prior hearings and said, "In that condition, I don't expect her to be able to have this video recall of everything because of her condition that you observed," right?
Detective Ogden (01:04:39):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:04:39):
I mean, that wasn't made up. Whatever caused it, caused it, but you realize that she was... And you don't know her, but this is not normal conduct by a human being. Something happened here that has made her really suffer trauma.
Detective Ogden (01:04:54):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:04:57):
But yet she speaks with you at her home, excuse me, at the hospital, right?
Detective Ogden (01:05:06):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:05:07):
She voluntarily, as the honorable prosecutor Cole says, comes, she's summoned. There's nothing wrong with that, you're doing your job, but she's summoned and she comes on December 30th, 2019 and speaks with you, right?
Detective Ogden (01:05:19):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:05:20):
And we saw that video.
Detective Ogden (01:05:21):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (01:05:22):
And she comes and she's summoned by you about eight days later on January 7th, 2020 and writes out this continuous statement, correct?
Detective Ogden (01:05:34):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:05:41):
Okay. With regards to something happened, it doesn't matter, the jurors heard something earlier. I just want to make it clear, you're familiar, I mean, in this county, in year 2019 December, Metro, do you know who Metro was?
Detective Ogden (01:06:02):
The ambulance company.
Mr. Steel (01:06:03):
Yeah. They're not some like Uber who just drive people to the hospital, right? They're actually paramedics, right?
Detective Ogden (01:06:10):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (01:06:11):
I mean, they would check on, in this case, Mr. Akers to determine whether, God willing, there was any sign of life and do whatever they could possibly to keep him alive, right?
Detective Ogden (01:06:21):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:06:22):
I mean, we don't just show up on a scene, you've been on scenes where they're, God forbid, deceased people, right?
Detective Ogden (01:06:28):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:06:29):
And we don't just show up and say, "Oh, there's nothing." I mean, we always check the person because there's always a possibility that it's life, right?
Detective Ogden (01:06:35):
That's correct.
Mr. Steel (01:06:36):
And when I say check a person, I'm talking about, there's many ways to do it, but check their pulse, right?
Detective Ogden (01:06:41):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:06:42):
And in this case, and I'll show you photographs if you'd like to see them, but the right side of where Mr. Akers is laying, that's more cluttered. There's a bed or a furniture object. He's close to that furniture object. On his left side where the gun is, there's more room to go over there and touch him. Is that true? And if you need to see it, just say, "I need to see a photograph."
Detective Ogden (01:07:07):
No, that's true.
Mr. Steel (01:07:08):
So for somebody to go over to the bed and his right side and touch him for a pulse or his neck, for a carotid artery or get up and see if there's any blood, I mean any breathing, but that would kind of be silly because there's so much blood, right?
Detective Ogden (01:07:27):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (01:07:28):
Checking him for breathing and you'd see the bubbles almost.
Detective Ogden (01:07:31):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:07:33):
But it's logical to go over to the side where his hand is on his left side, right?
Detective Ogden (01:07:39):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:07:40):
And have you ever been in a scene where EMTs just show up, paramedics would show up and say, "Oh no, we're here. We were called, but we're not going to check the person." Has that ever happened?
Detective Ogden (01:07:49):
No, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:07:50):
Even if it's dead on arrival, they show up and they try, right?
Detective Ogden (01:07:53):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (01:07:54):
Because that's why they're there, right?
Detective Ogden (01:07:56):
That's correct.
Mr. Steel (01:07:57):
Otherwise they'd be called to say, "Don't bother. There's no need for you." They're busy, right?
Detective Ogden (01:08:04):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:08:05):
And in this case, the gun is underneath the left hand of Mr. Akers. I'm not saying it's placed under it, but if he needs to see a picture, I'm not trying. Do you need to see a picture?
Detective Ogden (01:08:17):
No, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:08:18):
You know what I'm talking about?
Detective Ogden (01:08:19):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:08:19):
The gun is on the ground is my point. The hand is over somewhat the gun, right?
Detective Ogden (01:08:26):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (01:08:26):
It's not like somebody tried to manipulate the gun into his finger on the trigger of the finger, right?
Detective Ogden (01:08:34):
That's correct.
Mr. Steel (01:08:35):
I mean, you don't know because there's no video from the first responder. The first person there is the law enforcement officer, right?
Detective Ogden (01:08:45):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:08:46):
And I think it's Captain Miller?
Detective Ogden (01:08:49):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steel (01:08:51):
And he also has a cell phone, to your knowledge, if you don't know, just say, "I don't know," on December 22, 2000.
Detective Ogden (01:08:59):
I would imagine he probably has a cell phone.
Mr. Steel (01:09:00):
Yeah. I mean, everybody has a cell phone. And he could have, but he never turned over to you, "Here's when I walked in, here's what I saw," a video, right?
Detective Ogden (01:09:13):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (01:09:15):
And then he checked the body. You know that, right?
Detective Ogden (01:09:19):
I don't know what he did on scene.
Mr. Steel (01:09:21):
That's fine.
Detective Ogden (01:09:22):
Yeah.
Mr. Steel (01:09:23):
But then the EMTs come, or the paramedics rather, right?
Detective Ogden (01:09:26):
Yes.
Mr. Steel (01:09:27):
And they checked the body, right?
Detective Ogden (01:09:28):
Correct.
Mr. Steel (01:09:29):
And they could have, I'm not saying they did, but they could have touched the hand and moved it and felt no pulse and put the hand down. I'm not saying they were tampering with any evidence. And that's how Dan's hand, or excuse me, Ms. Baker's hand could have been on top of the gun, right?
Mr. Cole (01:09:45):
I'm going to object to speculation at this point. I let Mr. Steel have some freedom, but at this point I am going to interpose an objection for speculation.
Mr. Steel (01:09:57):
Ask if he knows.
Judge Dean C. Bucci (01:09:59):
All right, sir, never speculate. If you don't know, you can say, "I don't know."
Judge (01:10:03):
... never speculate. If you don't know, you can say, "I don't know." It's perfectly fine, okay?
Speaker 6 (01:10:05):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:10:07):
Thank you. Do you know whether the EMTs innocently, I'm not saying they did it on purpose, move the hand?
Speaker 6 (01:10:16):
I do not know.
Mr. Steele (01:10:17):
Right. That's really the point, right? We really are guessing at that scene because we don't have video from the first officer, right?
Speaker 6 (01:10:27):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:10:28):
Today, Paulding County does have body-worn camera that they have to wear, true?
Speaker 6 (01:10:34):
That is true.
Mr. Steele (01:10:35):
And the reason for that is police, as opposed to any other profession that I'm aware of, and you may correct me, I want to be corrected because I can't think of it. I don't know any other profession that law enforcement has to wear audio and video recordings so that other people can determine what the truth is.
Speaker 6 (01:11:00):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:11:00):
That's why it's done, right?
Speaker 6 (01:11:01):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:11:02):
And it's done for the protection of law enforcement because law enforcement gets targeted. They beat me, they forced me, they stole my money from me. That happens all the time to law enforcement, right?
Speaker 6 (01:11:15):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:11:16):
And also the other way, law enforcement, God forbid, there's been times that they do in fact manipulate intentionally or unintentionally what the real facts were, right?
Speaker 6 (01:11:31):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:11:32):
So Congress and local governments passed rules and then sheriff's departments either bought in or didn't, and police departments and FBI, whether they want to get it right. True?
Speaker 6 (01:11:45):
True.
Mr. Steele (01:11:46):
And that's the body camera. And that's what we see, all the cases that we see going on, confident everybody can think of several, that the body camera really tells the story and it doesn't matter what the officer or the citizen says. Everyone looks at the body camera, right?
Speaker 6 (01:12:03):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:12:04):
But in December 2019, your office, it is not your policy, they opted out of that, right? They didn't do it yet.
Speaker 6 (01:12:13):
We didn't have them. I don't know reason why, but yeah.
Mr. Steele (01:12:19):
So we're left, the jury's left to guess what that room was like when Lacy Boles opened the door for law enforcement, right?
Speaker 6 (01:12:29):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:12:47):
Now you knew right away that this had to be a death investigation, that's why you were called, right?
Speaker 6 (01:12:55):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:12:55):
You were on duty as the homicide detective for that day, at that moment in time, there's a rotation and no one's saying this is a homicide at the time, but it has to be investigated. There's a person whose life was taken by a bullet that has to be investigated, right?
Speaker 6 (01:13:18):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:13:24):
And because of that, that's why you, and you're very open. I mean, you're very open. You said, "This is my first one. I want to get it right. I want help."
Speaker 6 (01:13:36):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:13:37):
It was important to you and everybody. It could be your 50th. It's important to get it right.
Speaker 6 (01:13:42):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:13:44):
With regards to Lacy's statement that Mr. Akers was holding the gun in his left hand, do you remember that?
Speaker 6 (01:13:56):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:13:58):
Now, that's interesting to law enforcement because Mr. Akers, you know, is a righty, right?
Speaker 6 (01:14:03):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:14:04):
And if I'm a righty, I might primarily use my right hand. I think that's the idea of-
Speaker 6 (01:14:11):
Yes-
Mr. Steele (01:14:14):
... being a righty.
(01:14:14)
But Lacy told you, we heard it, the jurors heard it in this courtroom with you, that when you asked, you followed up. When you asked Lacy, "Is Mr. Akers a lefty?" She said, "No, he's a righty." Remember that?
Speaker 6 (01:14:30):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:14:31):
But later she said, "He can do things with his left hand," right?
Speaker 6 (01:14:38):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:14:39):
And she said that she'd been to the gun range with him one time and he fired with both hands. Remember that?
Speaker 6 (01:14:47):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:14:48):
And she said that he can throw a football with both hands. Remember that?
Speaker 6 (01:14:52):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:14:52):
And you asked, "How about writing?" And she said, "No, writing is always with his right hand," right?
Speaker 6 (01:14:58):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:14:58):
But people do, at times, use both hands, even though they're predominantly left or right, right?
Speaker 6 (01:15:06):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:15:07):
And do you have any idea from your investigation, don't speculate, do you have any idea why, when Lacy knows that he's a righty, why claim that he had his gun in his left hand?
Speaker 6 (01:15:22):
I do not know.
Mr. Steele (01:15:25):
Also, the position of the gun it has, you noticed some blood on it. Remember discussing that with the Honorable District Attorney?
Speaker 6 (01:15:32):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:15:33):
But Lacy made it known that she touched the gun, right?
Speaker 6 (01:15:37):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:15:37):
It's not like that was some mystery. She said it to you and on the 911 call that she touched the gun, right?
Speaker 6 (01:15:47):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:15:48):
And you knew she had blood on her, right?
Speaker 6 (01:15:50):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:15:51):
So the fact that the gun has some blood, that's not really ... I mean, it should have had blood, I guess, if her hands had blood and if the blood touched the gun with her hand, right?
Speaker 6 (01:16:03):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:16:05):
So that's not really contested, is that true?
Speaker 6 (01:16:09):
That's true.
Mr. Steele (01:16:21):
Lacy was mad at Dan that night. You know that, right?
Speaker 6 (01:16:24):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:16:24):
I mean, she told you that, right?
Speaker 6 (01:16:26):
She told me, yes.
Mr. Steele (01:16:27):
She told you, made it clear, "I was sending text messages," right?
Speaker 6 (01:16:30):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:16:31):
And she gave over her telephone, correct?
Speaker 6 (01:16:35):
Yes.
Mr. Steele (01:16:36):
And on that telephone, you can search. When I say you, I'm not saying you, but experts can download the phone and search it and get all her calls, text messages, emails, voice messages, Google search, that were able to be retrieved, right?
Speaker 6 (01:16:50):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:16:51):
And you know that there are some very nasty exchanges between Lacy towards Mr. Akers that night, right?
Speaker 6 (01:17:01):
I was told about them. I did not actually go to the call.
Mr. Steele (01:17:04):
We'll do somebody else.
Speaker 6 (01:17:05):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:17:06):
Okay.
(01:17:07)
But Lacy told you she was telling him, "Don't come home," right?
Speaker 6 (01:17:11):
I don't know about the don't come home part.
Mr. Steele (01:17:12):
Remember she wanted to know if he comes home, she put a Swiffer, didn't know if he's going to come home?
Speaker 6 (01:17:16):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:17:19):
I mean, she's not hiding the fact that she was mad at him, right?
Speaker 6 (01:17:22):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:17:22):
And she even said when he does come home and the Swiffer fell with the dust pan and she came downstairs, she wanted to know, she was demanding like, "What are you doing?" Right? That's what she told you.
Speaker 6 (01:17:33):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:17:34):
And that's what she wrote in the statement, right?
Speaker 6 (01:17:35):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:17:36):
And she's saying, "I'm livid with the guy," to the point of, "I want to know when he comes in, I'm demanding, where is he?" Right?
Speaker 6 (01:17:46):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:17:46):
And this is Saturday night going into Sunday, days before one of the biggest celebrations on earth, Christmas, right?
Speaker 6 (01:17:56):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:17:57):
And he just, according to her, just takes off. You realize that?
Speaker 6 (01:18:02):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:18:02):
I mean, that could be upsetting to a wife, right?
Speaker 6 (01:18:07):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:18:08):
And he's great with the kids. She told you that.
Speaker 6 (01:18:10):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:18:10):
She said he's a great father, right?
Speaker 6 (01:18:12):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:18:13):
And he's always home to help with the babies to get them to bed and have a great night, right? I mean, she told you that.
Speaker 6 (01:18:21):
Yes.
Mr. Steele (01:18:22):
And that night he just took off by himself, right?
Speaker 6 (01:18:26):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:18:28):
And she doesn't know ... I mean, from her point of view, from your observation, she's mad that her husband just abandoned, is my word, her and her kids, the Saturday night before Christmas, right?
Speaker 6 (01:18:43):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:18:45):
Would that make you concerned?
Speaker 6 (01:18:48):
I'd be concerned. Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:18:54):
Did you ask her why is she saying that she's mad at her husband that night? I mean, if she killed him, why would she say, "I was mad at him," unless it was truthful? Did you ever ask her that?
Speaker 6 (01:19:06):
I don't believe I asked that. No, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:19:09):
Do you have any evidence that it's not truthful?
Speaker 6 (01:19:11):
No, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:19:12):
Do you have any evidence, not a theory, that Lacy Boles came down those steps moments before her husband's demise with a gun? Tell the jurors, do you have any evidence that she came down those steps into that room with a gun?
Speaker 6 (01:19:32):
I do.
Mr. Steele (01:19:35):
You were asked a lot of questions about the, I call them jogging pants, worn by Mr. Akers on his last day. If he needs to see pictures, just again, it's the same rules, just anything you need to see, just say-
Speaker 6 (01:19:51):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:19:54):
You asked a lot of questions about a holster and if there's a belt and are they loose fitting? Do you remember all those questions by the honorable prosecutor Cole?
Speaker 6 (01:20:03):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:20:05):
What evidence do you have that anyone said that Mr. Akers was wearing a holster on his jogging pants?
Speaker 6 (01:20:17):
I don't have any except for the statement where she wrote that she saw a camo gun case.
Mr. Steele (01:20:23):
Right. That camo holster, what'd you say?
Speaker 6 (01:20:27):
A holster. I'm sorry. Holster.
Mr. Steele (01:20:30):
No, no, no. Gun case. It's the same. We're talking about the same thing.
Speaker 6 (01:20:32):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:20:32):
Something that a gun goes in.
Speaker 6 (01:20:34):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:20:35):
But show the ladies and gentlemen, if you need to look at any statement again, where Lacy ever said it was on his person, like he was wearing on his hip or something. Did she ever say that?
Speaker 6 (01:20:46):
No, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:20:47):
I mean, she's talking about it's on the ground, right? She picked it up off the ground.
Speaker 6 (01:20:51):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:20:53):
She's not saying it was anywhere near Dan Akers, right? She said, "Second time I go down there, I see this holster," and just instinctively for reason she has no idea, ran upstairs and threw it into the safe, right?
Speaker 6 (01:21:07):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:21:08):
So this whole conversation you had with Mr. Cole when you were answering questions about a holster on pants or anything, no one ever said the holster's on the pants, right?
Speaker 6 (01:21:22):
That's correct.
Mr. Steele (01:21:23):
I could have a gun in a holster and I could just carry it in my hand, right?
Speaker 6 (01:21:27):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:21:27):
I could have a gun in a holster and not even have the gun in the holster, right?
Speaker 6 (01:21:30):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:21:31):
I could have a gun in a holster and put this gun into my pocket, right?
Speaker 6 (01:21:36):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:21:37):
I could have a gun in the holster, separate from the holster and put it into my hoodie. You realize he was wearing a hoodie with a pocket?
Speaker 6 (01:21:44):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:21:45):
I mean, those pockets ... I mean, some jurors may be wearing hoodies right now. Those pockets ... Have you ever worn a hoodie?
Speaker 6 (01:21:52):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:21:52):
I mean, those pockets could possibly hold that type of gun with a holster, right?
Speaker 6 (01:22:00):
Yes, I can.
Mr. Steele (01:22:01):
I mean, do you have any evidence that that holster is somehow evidence of guilt in this case?
Speaker 6 (01:22:07):
No, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:22:07):
Were you present when that holster was tested for blood?
Speaker 6 (01:22:16):
I don't recall.
Mr. Steele (01:22:17):
That's fine. Okay.
(01:22:25)
If Lacy shot Dan Akers from a distance, do you know what soot and stippling are from a gun?
Speaker 6 (01:22:37):
I'm not an expert on it, but ...
Mr. Steele (01:22:39):
And I appreciate it. Do you know generally what I'm talking about?
Speaker 6 (01:22:41):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:22:43):
Okay. I'm going to make it bare, and if you don't agree with this, just say, "Don't ask me these questions." I won't ask you these questions.
Speaker 6 (01:22:48):
Okay.
Mr. Steele (01:22:49):
Just like those gases we talked about coming out of the gun, and that's the gun part of the gunshot residue test, items can come out of the muzzle of the gun, which is burning gunpowder, and it can stick on something, and it could be black, and it could be the soot stippling or tattooing. Do you understand that?
Speaker 6 (01:23:10):
Yes, sir. Yeah.
Mr. Steele (01:23:12):
Okay. If Lacy shoots Mr. Akers from a distance, at some point, he can't be holding that gun because his arm can only go out a certain distance, right?
Speaker 6 (01:23:21):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:23:21):
Because beyond a certain distance, he can't get that gun physically. It's a physical impossibility to turn towards him, the way Lacy described, to pull the trigger because if it's more than, and I don't know, do you know how long a typical arm is?
Speaker 6 (01:23:40):
No.
Mr. Steele (01:23:41):
That's fine.
Speaker 6 (01:23:41):
Yeah.
Mr. Steele (01:23:42):
But it's not four feet. Would you agree with me there?
Speaker 6 (01:23:45):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:23:46):
So at some point, four feet, three feet, two and a half feet, whatever it is, 18 inches, at some point he can't do that. If that distance between the bullet and the nostril is more than a certain distance, someone else shot him. You would agree with that?
Speaker 6 (01:24:03):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:24:07):
Okay.
(01:24:07)
If Lacy shoots him from a distance, can you explain to the jurors what you asked Lacy? Why would she then say that she fell on top of him? I mean, if she shoots him from a distance, why is she involved with the blood?
Speaker 7 (01:24:28):
Again, I'm going to object on speculation on this.
Judge (01:24:33):
Well, I'll just direct the witness to not speculate. He may know, he may not. If you don't know the answer should be, "I don't know."
Speaker 6 (01:24:43):
Yes, sir.
(01:24:43)
Can you repeat that one more time?
Mr. Steele (01:24:45):
Yeah. If Lacy just comes down the steps and Dan Akers looks at her and he's holding a cup of McDonald's, he's holding a bag of McDonald's, he's holding a hat, he's holding keys, he's holding a holster, whatever, whatever he's holding, if anything, maybe holding nothing, maybe he put it all down before and through the hat and keys because he hears her coming down. I don't know. But assuming that she just fires at a distance, did you ask her why would she involve herself with falling on top of him? Did you ever say to her like, "If you killed him, why'd you come up with this story?" That's an odd story, isn't it? "I fell on top and I tried to stop him."
Speaker 7 (01:25:38):
That's a compound question, Your Honor. I think it's very difficult to follow. I'm going to object on that.
Judge (01:25:43):
All right. Rephrase.
Mr. Steele (01:25:46):
Did you ever ask her?
Speaker 6 (01:25:49):
No, I did not.
Mr. Steele (01:25:50):
And press her and say, "This can't be true. You shot him from a distance."
Speaker 6 (01:25:55):
I did not, no.
Mr. Steele (01:25:56):
Right. Because her story's pretty involved, isn't it?
Speaker 6 (01:26:00):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:26:00):
I mean, that's pretty detailed to say, "I tried to stop him and I fell on top of him," right?
Speaker 6 (01:26:06):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:26:08):
And there should have been evidence, if it was collected, to tell whether that is true or untrue, right?
Speaker 6 (01:26:14):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:26:14):
And then the jurors wouldn't have to go back and deliberate and say, "Well, her demeanor or her eyes are not crying." I mean, we wouldn't even ... We're not talking about evidence anymore, right? I mean, the evidence is lost by law enforcement. Good evidence is lost, right?
Speaker 6 (01:26:31):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:27:08):
In the days, to your knowledge, I'm just talking about your knowledge, Sunday morning, December 22, 2019, Lacy Boles is whatever your word, but beyond hysterical, right?
Speaker 6 (01:27:29):
Right.
Mr. Steele (01:27:30):
I'm asking about what you witnessed, okay? True?
Speaker 6 (01:27:33):
True.
Mr. Steele (01:27:36):
You know then in the immediate aftermath of that day, she has planned the memorial for Mr. Akers. You're aware of that?
Speaker 6 (01:27:45):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:27:45):
And that's rough stuff for anybody, right?
Speaker 6 (01:27:53):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:27:55):
She's dealing with her children, right?
Speaker 6 (01:27:58):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:27:59):
She's living with her children at her mother's and daughter's place, right? Or sister's place?
Speaker 6 (01:28:06):
I don't know where she was living at.
Mr. Steele (01:28:07):
That's what she tells you.
Speaker 6 (01:28:09):
Oh, yes, sir. Yes.
Mr. Steele (01:28:10):
You asked her where she living?
Speaker 6 (01:28:11):
Yes, sir. That's right.
Mr. Steele (01:28:14):
And then there's this just tremendous pressure of celebration for some people, Christmas, right? It's supposed to be a happy occasion, right?
Speaker 6 (01:28:26):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:28:27):
And she's dealing just three days later, from December 22 to December 25th, she's dealing with whatever Christmas was like with her family and kids, right?
Speaker 6 (01:28:39):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:28:40):
And then she meets with you five days later on December 30th, right?
Speaker 6 (01:28:46):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:28:48):
Did you notice on the December 30th, 2019 video audio that you were kind enough to share with us, did you notice her eyes were black or darkened or were they normal? Did you notice?
Speaker 6 (01:29:02):
Not anything that I've noticed.
Mr. Steele (01:29:04):
Okay.
(01:29:06)
Did you ever ask her how much sleep she's had since December 22, 2019?
Speaker 6 (01:29:10):
I did not.
Mr. Steele (01:29:23):
Now, you are aware because you go through training and hopefully you haven't experienced it personally, but people deal with grief and stress differently. Is that fair?
Speaker 6 (01:29:38):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:29:39):
I mean, some people with grief, they'll just go back to work and work even harder sometimes, right? Be more productive, right?
Speaker 6 (01:29:46):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:29:46):
Some people can't function, can't get out of bed.
Speaker 6 (01:29:49):
True.
Mr. Steele (01:29:50):
But that's an individual thing. It's hard to predict. Some stricken with grief, it's hard to predict how a person should act. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 6 (01:30:02):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:30:04):
'Cause there's really no normal, right?
Speaker 6 (01:30:05):
That's true.
Mr. Steele (01:30:05):
And this event, whether Lacy Boles came down the steps with that gun and murdered her husband, or she tried to save him and stop him from committing suicide, either way, that's probably the most traumatic event she has ever experienced. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 6 (01:30:22):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:30:34):
You've looked at the medical examiner's photographs, I presume. Is that true?
Speaker 6 (01:30:38):
I did not. I think the case was passed on to Detective Hardy at that point.
Mr. Steele (01:30:42):
Okay. And Detective Hardy, since you mentioned, he took over for you because you thankfully have a six-year-old child, but you couldn't ... For scheduling and for how much work it is to follow up on these type of cases, you respectfully asked to be transferred and he was assigned the case?
Speaker 6 (01:31:03):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:31:11):
Okay.
(01:31:11)
Did you ever look at the receipts found that night about a pig, pig food? Do you remember what I'm talking about? There were receipts from a tractor trailer or tractor company?
Speaker 6 (01:31:25):
I remember in her statement about the pigs, but I did not see any receipts or anything that nature.
Mr. Steele (01:31:31):
You didn't see the receipts?
Speaker 6 (01:31:32):
No, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:31:32):
Okay.
(01:31:34)
Do you have any evidence that Mr. Akers bought a pig?
Speaker 6 (01:31:39):
I don't know.
Mr. Steele (01:31:49):
Have you ever looked for, while you were still working on the case, pictures of Mr. Akers using his left hand?
Speaker 6 (01:32:00):
I did not.
Mr. Steele (01:32:01):
Okay. Now, with regards to evidence, you also had preserved ... And when I say you, I understand you're very gracious and you say Amanda Carter and other people were assisting and you were assisting them working as a team, but the firearm that's already in evidence-
Speaker 6 (01:32:27):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:32:28):
The 22 caliber revolver, you did have that collected and preserved for evidence and testing, true?
Speaker 6 (01:32:36):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:32:36):
And the reason for that is we need to know who pulled that trigger, right?
Speaker 6 (01:32:41):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:32:42):
And are you aware that it wasn't you, but one of your coworkers, under your guidance, asked the GBI to test for DNA, that revolver? Are you aware of that?
Speaker 6 (01:32:56):
No, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:32:57):
I'm going to show you an email. Tell me if it refreshes your memory, okay?
Speaker 6 (01:32:59):
Okay.
Mr. Steele (01:33:00):
Do you remember asking Lacy to take a swabbing of her cheeks for DNA purposes?
Speaker 6 (01:33:31):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:33:32):
And this way you had her DNA ... When I say you, you preserved the swabs to take DNA from her, right?
Speaker 6 (01:33:39):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:33:40):
So it could be tested, correct?
Speaker 6 (01:33:41):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:33:42):
And you had Mr. Akers, not you, but somebody had his DNA, right?
Speaker 6 (01:33:46):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:33:47):
To test. All right. Let me ask you a question. No, this is the wrong part. Let me just see if this refreshes your memory. If it doesn't, just say this doesn't happen.
(01:35:19)
May I approach, Your Honor?
Judge (01:35:44):
You may.
Mr. Steele (01:35:45):
May I approach you, sir?
Speaker 6 (01:35:46):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:35:48):
Just do not read this out loud because it's just for you refreshing your memory.
Speaker 6 (01:35:52):
Okay.
Mr. Steele (01:35:53):
Just tell me whether ... It's an email. If you need me to kind of get you oriented, just let me know. But otherwise, just read it to yourself and tell me whether that refreshes your memory about asking the GBI to test the gun for DNA.
Speaker 6 (01:36:16):
Yeah, this one doesn't ring a bell.
Mr. Steele (01:36:19):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (01:36:19):
I think this was about the time I think Detective Hardy probably would've taken over.
Mr. Steele (01:36:23):
May I approach, Your Honor, and take it back?
Judge (01:36:24):
You may.
Mr. Steele (01:36:26):
Okay. Thank you.
Speaker 6 (01:36:26):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:36:33):
Appreciate it. And I know what you said that this is about the transition time that Detective Hardy became the lead detective, but you had preserved, you and your teammates, that that revolver could have been tested for DNA?
Speaker 6 (01:36:48):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:36:49):
And that would be great information for the jury because if Lacy Bole's DNA was on that trigger area, that would be interesting, right? I mean, then she touched that trigger area, right?
Speaker 6 (01:37:01):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:37:02):
But if Mr. Akers' finger was on that trigger area, that would be interesting too, because then he touched that trigger area, right?
Speaker 6 (01:37:08):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:37:10):
But we don't know, as far as you know today, what happened with that?
Speaker 6 (01:37:14):
Correct. I do not know.
Mr. Steele (01:37:15):
But you did your job and preserve that evidence?
Speaker 6 (01:37:18):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:37:18):
And in order to fire that gun, if it's working properly, that trigger has to be pulled, true?
Speaker 6 (01:37:24):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:37:24):
Okay.
(01:37:24)
I want to ask you just about the ... Remember the McDonald's cup?
Speaker 6 (01:37:52):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:37:53):
It's on the ground?
Speaker 6 (01:37:54):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:37:55):
Do you have any evidence whether that cup was dropped onto the ground?
Speaker 6 (01:37:59):
No, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:38:00):
Do you have any evidence whether it was placed on the ground and subsequently or later somehow toppled over and that's how the items came out, the liquid came out?
Speaker 6 (01:38:07):
No, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:38:08):
And we just don't know, right?
Speaker 6 (01:38:10):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:38:11):
And nobody in your presence said, "Hey, that McDonald's cup has no marks on it, no defects on it. Let's get a similar McDonald's cup, fill it up with ice and water and drop it onto this carpet and see whether there's a defect." And we could tell whether it was dropped from a hand, let's say, thrown down hard or placed down and then later just kicked. You never did any of that?
Speaker 6 (01:38:34):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:38:35):
It was never suggested to you to do?
Speaker 6 (01:38:37):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:38:37):
Am I correct?
Speaker 6 (01:38:38):
You're correct.
Mr. Steele (01:38:41):
So we don't know the sequencing of that cup, whether Mr. Akers came into the room carrying that cup, put it on the ground, threw his keys and hat, put down the McDonald's bag, took the holster away, threw it on the ground, and put a gun in his left hand. We don't know if that all happened, right?
Speaker 6 (01:39:03):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:39:03):
Okay. That could have happened though, true?
Speaker 6 (01:39:08):
It could have.
Mr. Steele (01:39:17):
You had preserved, because it went to the coroner, which went to the medical examiner, you had preserved the clothing of Mr. Akers though, correct?
Speaker 6 (01:39:31):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:39:31):
And that is here in evidence. I know it's biohazard, but it is here in evidence for this trial for the jurors to see, true?
Speaker 6 (01:39:40):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:39:41):
And can you identify all that, or does the medical examiner better to do it since he took custody of it?
Speaker 6 (01:39:46):
That would be the medical examiner.
Mr. Steele (01:39:47):
Okay. But you know that it's available?
Speaker 6 (01:39:50):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:39:50):
Okay.
(01:39:50)
You were asked about, God forbid, a person who dedicated themselves to Protecting All of Us, a Marine who committed suicide. Do you remember that?
Speaker 6 (01:40:15):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:40:16):
And when you came on the scene, God forbid, witnessed that tragic event, the gun was in the hand of the Marine.
Speaker 6 (01:40:29):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:40:30):
But in that case, was there any suggestion that someone tried to stop the Marine and touch the gun and move the gun?
Speaker 6 (01:40:39):
No, that was a little different case.
Mr. Steele (01:40:42):
It was a lot different. That was a Marine by himself, God forbid, or herself, and took their life.
Speaker 6 (01:40:47):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:40:50):
This case, Ms. Bole's case, is a dynamic situation.
Speaker 6 (01:40:53):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:40:54):
More involved, right?
Speaker 6 (01:40:56):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:40:58):
Nothing to do with the Marine that you talked about with the honorable prosecutor?
Speaker 6 (01:41:00):
Correct.
Mr. Steele (01:41:00):
Okay. All right.
(01:41:00)
Your Honor, may I have a moment?
Judge (01:41:00):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Steele (01:41:43):
Can I have a moment? Officer, I'm not trying to be rude. I just need a couple minutes. Your Honor, I have to find something. If you're breaking soon, I don't want to keep everyone waiting.
Judge (01:41:54):
Okay. Well, we've been going about an hour and a half, so it'll be time for 10 minute break.
Speaker 7 (01:42:04):
Your Honor, it may be longer than 10 minutes. Because of the way this cross-examination has evolved, there may be some issues we need to take up now.
Judge (01:42:10):
All right.
Speaker 7 (01:42:10):
[Inaudible 01:42:11]
Speaker 8 (01:42:41):
Your Honor, if I could address an issue that came up during cross-examination and I've asked to address it because it was an issue that I had dealt with pretrial litigation.
Mr. Steele (01:42:55):
Can I ask you a favor? Can Detective Ogden be excused?
Judge (01:42:57):
[inaudible 01:42:58]
Speaker 8 (01:43:20):
May it please the court, Your Honor. There was some pretrial litigation about an issue that came before the court several months ago. The issue was we had the defendant's statement, especially her third statement with Detective Nick Hardy. A lot of that statement was imposed to Nick Hardy challenging the defendant, confronting her, that he didn't believe what she was saying, he didn't think it was true. And of course the defense moved as was expected. They moved pretrial to keep that type of evidence out and Your Honor ruled as expected that should be kept out. You can't have law enforcement officers commenting on the veracity of the defendant or the interviewee at the time that was redacted.
(01:43:57)
Mr. Steele has just opened the door by asking this deputy, "Did you confront her and say, 'I don't believe you,'" or something to that effect that yield to the record of this exact language. But he certainly opened the door by cross-examining Detective Ogden and Deputy Ogden, "Did you ever confront her and tell her, 'I don't believe you. That's crazy or that's preposterous. That's not true.'" He said something along those lines and clearly opened the door the rest of this evidence coming in about law enforcement confronting the defendant, stating their position that they thought what she was saying was not true. And he did that in his own volition on cross-examination.
(01:44:32)
That opens the door and we'd ask that your prior ruling be reversed because now that's before the jury and law enforcement confronting the defendant on her, the lack of veracity of her statements. I ask that you carefully reconsider that ruling because of Mr. Steele's question. Thank you.
Judge (01:44:49):
All right. Thank you.
(01:44:49)
Mr. Steele.
Mr. Steele (01:44:52):
I'm not so certain I used those type of words, but if the court reporter can prepare, maybe just find the places and let us know, I'll have a better answer for the court.
Mr. Steele (01:45:00):
... places and let us know. I'll have a better answer for the court.
Judge Dean Bucci (01:45:04):
Okay. Well, the break comes at a fortuitous time, and I'll ask the court reporter to see what she can find. Anything else before the break?
Speaker 9 (01:45:13):
How long are we going to be on break, how long would you anticipate?
Judge Dean Bucci (01:45:17):
Well, let's say... Let's say 15 minutes.
Speaker 9 (01:45:21):
All right. Thank you, Your Honor.
Judge Dean Bucci (01:45:23):
Okay? Thank you.
Mr. Steele (01:45:23):
Thank you.
Judge (02:30:06):
... Or know why. Question for Mr. Steele and press her and say, "This can't be true. You shot him from a distance." Answer, "I did not," et cetera. Did y'all want to make any argument before I give you rule? So I think if the question was, did law enforcement ask her, that would've opened the door. But the question was, did you, this particular witness, ever ask her? And I think it was a different officer. I think it was Hardy. So I don't think that opens the door. What else?
Speaker 10 (02:30:48):
Nothing. I'm pretty much done. I just have a couple of minutes just for the state to know about their redirect, if any, and then their next witness. And then I told Mr. Cole, anything that we can stipulate to, we are open. I know the court has to agree to it, and of course, Ms. Boles, we'll put it on the record, but anything we can do to move it along a little faster, we are willing to do it. And I know the state wants to do that too, wants to be efficient. So I'm just letting the court know.
Judge (02:31:23):
I appreciate that very much. Kind of the pattern we're establishing is we're going from nine to six. I'm willing to go eight to six. I know at some point we're putting a lot on these jurors and I know, I think at least Mr. Lale told me his drive is pretty substantial, but that's an option. And this will go into next week. Of course, I can't be here Friday. I've already told you that. So thank you for trying to save time wherever we can.
Speaker 10 (02:31:49):
And it's both sides. We're both trying to make it efficient.
Judge (02:31:53):
As to the other matter, with respect to the young lady, I think it's best if she just stays on the other side of the bar and she can help you from the other side of the bar.
Speaker 10 (02:32:01):
Thank you, Your Honor.
Judge (02:32:02):
Yep. Ready for the jury?
Speaker 10 (02:32:05):
Yes, sir.
Judge (02:32:06):
All right.
Speaker 10 (02:32:06):
Should we get the witness?
Judge (02:32:09):
We should.
Speaker 10 (02:32:09):
[inaudible 02:32:24]
Judge (02:32:26):
Okay.
Speaker 10 (02:32:32):
Which is not in his position.
Judge (02:32:38):
All right. Welcome back, sir. Yeah, you have a seat. Thank you. All right, let's resume.
Speaker 10 (02:33:46):
May I approach, Your Honor?
Judge (02:33:47):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 10 (02:33:47):
May I approach you?
Judge (02:33:47):
Yes.
Speaker 10 (02:33:48):
I'm showing you two exhibits. They're already in evidence. State's 153 and State's 154. If you don't mind just orienting yourself to it.
Judge (02:33:56):
Okay.
Speaker 10 (02:33:56):
And then with the court's permission, I'm going to ask investigator to publish it for the jury.
Judge (02:34:00):
Okay.
Speaker 10 (02:34:00):
May I approach? Y.
Judge (02:34:00):
Es.
Speaker 10 (02:34:12):
Take them back?
Judge (02:34:12):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 10 (02:34:20):
They're very similar photographs. Can you just announce which exhibit you're displaying, sir, when you get a chance?
Speaker 14 (02:34:26):
State's 153.
Speaker 10 (02:34:35):
So, I mean, you could look at anything you want here. I'm specifically talking about... Well, let me ask you a question. Do you know what a Swiffer is?
Speaker 11 (02:34:45):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 10 (02:34:46):
And does this appear to you to be a Swiffer?
Speaker 11 (02:34:53):
Yes, sir, it does.
Speaker 10 (02:34:56):
Okay. And this appeared to be some sort of broom or mop?
Speaker 11 (02:34:59):
Correct. Yes, sir.
Speaker 10 (02:35:01):
Okay. And Lacy tells you, does she not, that she had that Swiffer or a Swiffer, I don't know if it was that one, but a Swiffer in front of the door to hear if Mr. Akers returned to home that night?
Speaker 11 (02:35:16):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 10 (02:35:18):
Do you know whether or who put that Swiffer in that area at the time of the picture being taken?
Speaker 11 (02:35:29):
I do not know.
Speaker 10 (02:35:30):
Now, there's no blood on that Swiffer, I presume, because we don't have any focused pictures. You know what I'm talking about? If there was blood, it seems like you and Ms. Carter would take an overall picture and then focus in on the blood on the...
Speaker 11 (02:35:47):
Correct.
Speaker 10 (02:35:48):
Is that true?
Speaker 11 (02:35:49):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 10 (02:35:50):
Do you have any reason to believe that there was any blood on there?
Speaker 11 (02:35:53):
Not that I know of.
Speaker 10 (02:35:55):
Okay. And just to be fair to everybody, you don't know who put that Swiffer... If that's a Swiffer used at the doorway, you don't know who put that Swiffer up on that other landing, do you?
Speaker 11 (02:36:08):
That's correct. I don't know.
Speaker 10 (02:36:09):
In the kitchen area?
Speaker 11 (02:36:10):
Correct.
Speaker 10 (02:36:10):
Okay. Now, I guess it could be a different Swiffer we're talking about, but if you find a different Swiffer in the photos, just let us know. Okay?
Speaker 11 (02:36:19):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 10 (02:36:20):
And then can you just show the other, just since I mentioned it, what number it is?
Speaker 14 (02:36:25):
State's 154.
Speaker 10 (02:36:27):
And just because I talked about it, this is a similar picture of the same item that you just talked about, correct?
Speaker 11 (02:36:33):
Correct.
Speaker 10 (02:36:34):
And just so everyone understands, this is up the... You walk in the main landing, could go downstairs or upstairs, this is upstairs in the kitchen area?
Speaker 11 (02:36:42):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 10 (02:36:44):
I want to thank you. I don't have any other questions. Thank you, Your Honor.
Speaker 11 (02:36:48):
Yes, sir.
Judge (02:36:48):
All right. Any redirect?
Speaker 12 (02:37:10):
Yes, Your Honor. You were a detective at this time on December 22nd of 2019, is that correct?
Speaker 11 (02:37:18):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 12 (02:37:20):
Okay. And Mr. Steele asked you a bunch of questions about, well, if this defendant was trying to save her husband and confronted him, she'd have blood on her. You remember that line of questioning?
Speaker 11 (02:37:41):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 12 (02:37:42):
But if she also tried to kill him and cover it up, she'd have blood on her, wouldn't she, if she's down there working with the body, trying to manipulate things, is that right?
Speaker 11 (02:37:50):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 12 (02:37:59):
Now, you don't know whether or not the gun that was on the scene was placed there or how it got there when you arrived on that scene, is that correct?
Speaker 11 (02:38:12):
That's correct.
Speaker 12 (02:38:14):
And if someone had placed the gun there prior to the first officer arriving on the scene, even if you'd been wearing a body camera, that wouldn't have helped explain anything, would it?
Speaker 11 (02:38:30):
That's correct.
Speaker 12 (02:38:41):
When you arrived at the hospital and encountered this defendant, did you have any idea whether the clothes had already been discarded or not, the clothes she was wearing?
Speaker 11 (02:38:53):
I did not know.
Speaker 12 (02:38:55):
And did you notice any blood on the clothes she was wearing at that time?
Speaker 11 (02:38:59):
I did not.
Speaker 12 (02:39:00):
Is it possible that the garments could have already been destroyed by the time you got there and discarded?
Speaker 11 (02:39:22):
That's possible. Yes, sir.
Speaker 12 (02:39:29):
And Mr. Steele asked you a number of questions about gunshot residue. Do you recall those questions?
Speaker 11 (02:39:38):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 12 (02:39:38):
Are you in any way a gunshot residue expert to know how long the particles stay on the person and the effect of just walking around and how that discards the particles from the person?
Speaker 11 (02:39:53):
I am not an expert.
Speaker 12 (02:39:56):
Okay. And what about muzzle to target? He asked you all about muzzle to target, range being a close distance or a far distance issue. Are you familiar with that? Can you testify to anything like that?
Speaker 11 (02:40:08):
No, sir.
Speaker 12 (02:40:09):
That's all the questions I have. Thank you.
Judge (02:40:09):
Any recross?
Speaker 10 (02:40:15):
No.
Judge (02:40:20):
No. All right, sir, you can be excused. Thank you very much.
Speaker 11 (02:40:22):
Yes, sir.
Judge (02:40:22):
Any other witness.
Speaker 12 (02:40:22):
State calls Tyler Brown.
Speaker 14 (02:40:22):
Okay, good morning. Officer Ben, you will please raise your right hand. Proceed note. Do you swear or affirm that your testimony in the matter will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Tyler Brown (02:40:22):
I do.
Speaker 12 (02:41:36):
Could you state your name please, sir?
Tyler Brown (02:41:38):
Tyler Brown.
Speaker 12 (02:41:39):
And how are you employed?
Tyler Brown (02:41:40):
I'm a lieutenant with Paulding Sheriff's Office.
Speaker 12 (02:41:44):
And how long have you been so employed?
Tyler Brown (02:41:47):
I've been with Paulding Sheriff's Office since April of 2003.
Speaker 12 (02:41:52):
And what is your job with the Sheriff's Office at this time?
Tyler Brown (02:41:55):
I'm a lieutenant in our training division.
Speaker 12 (02:41:59):
And you've been a employee of the Paulding County Sheriff's Office since 2003. What were your duties with the Paulding County Sheriff's Office in 2019?
Tyler Brown (02:42:13):
I was a detective assigned to our, at the time, Crimes Against Children Unit.
Speaker 12 (02:42:18):
And in December, January 2019, did you have occasion to become involved in some fashion with the Lacy Boles investigation?
Tyler Brown (02:42:32):
I did.
Speaker 12 (02:42:33):
And what was your duties with regard to the Lacy Boles investigation?
Tyler Brown (02:42:39):
Part of my duties as a detective with the Crimes Against Children Unit is I primarily worked technology facilitated exploitation, so technology crimes, and I was asked to help retrieve some data from some devices linked to that case.
Speaker 12 (02:42:53):
And did you attempt to extract data from devices for this case?
Tyler Brown (02:42:59):
I did.
Speaker 12 (02:43:00):
And were you successful with one of the items?
Tyler Brown (02:43:05):
One was a device that I got data on and turned it over to the case agent, case detective, and the other one I was not successful in my time with it.
Speaker 12 (02:43:16):
Okay. Was the one you were able to retrieve data from, was that the defendant's personal device? Was that the one you were able to retrieve it from?
Tyler Brown (02:43:24):
That's how it was tendered to me, yes.
Speaker 12 (02:43:26):
Okay. And then what about State's Exhibit 180? Do you recall attempting to extract data from that?
Tyler Brown (02:43:47):
I do.
Speaker 12 (02:43:48):
And what were the circumstances on trying to extract data from that particular device?
Tyler Brown (02:43:55):
This device was locked and there was no passcode available for it that functioned, so we put it on a system. The system is called GrayKey, and it attempts a brute force, which essentially it guesses the passcode. It guesses the passcode repeatedly. It's a one million possibilities and it guessed the passcode for quite some time and the device ceased to function.
Speaker 12 (02:44:27):
So approximately how long was it on this device attempting to extract the passcode?
Tyler Brown (02:44:33):
I think it was around three years that it ran, but sometimes it had to be taken off and restarted sometimes. So the total amount of time actually functioning, I'm not 100% sure, but it was close to three years.
Speaker 12 (02:44:46):
And then what eventually happened with this device? Where did it end up?
Tyler Brown (02:44:49):
When the device ceased function and I didn't have any reasonable expectation that it would open using that brute force system, I returned it to our evidence vault.
Speaker 12 (02:45:03):
All right, sir. And the device from which you could not extract data was state's exhibit 180, is that correct?
Tyler Brown (02:45:27):
The iPhone 6S.
Speaker 12 (02:45:29):
Okay. And then the defendant's phone, you were able to extract data from, is that correct?
Tyler Brown (02:45:35):
Yes. It was a limited data set pulled from that device.
Speaker 12 (02:45:39):
That's all the questions I have.
Speaker 13 (02:45:42):
Can we have a second, Your Honor?
Judge (02:45:43):
Sure.
Speaker 12 (02:45:54):
Now, I think you used the word limited data extraction, is that correct?
Tyler Brown (02:46:00):
Yes.
Speaker 12 (02:46:01):
What exactly is that?
Tyler Brown (02:46:03):
It's highly dependent upon the phone. Certain phones only allow certain data to come off, so it might be limited to just text or might just be limited to the phone call logs. Certain devices allow for what we call full file system, which is the entire data set. Well, it's still technically a limited data set, but it's more data, so...
Speaker 12 (02:46:22):
So whatever you are able to retrieve from this particular phone, you retrieved it?
Tyler Brown (02:46:28):
Yes. At that particular time, yes.
Speaker 12 (02:46:30):
All right, sir. That's all the questions I have. Who's with you?
Judge (02:46:34):
All right. Any cross examination?
Raymond Lale (02:46:40):
Good morning. My name is Raymond Lale.
Tyler Brown (02:46:42):
Yes, sir.
Raymond Lale (02:46:43):
Brian Steele and I are representing Ms. Boles. Just have a couple of questions, sir.
Tyler Brown (02:46:47):
Yes, sir.
Raymond Lale (02:46:48):
Was that all your involvement in this case was to attempt this extraction?
Tyler Brown (02:46:52):
To my recollection, that's all the involvement that I had.
Raymond Lale (02:46:56):
Okay. Okay. Did you generate a report or a, I guess, a memorial of them asking you to do this with regard to the phones that you report?
Tyler Brown (02:47:12):
The data set. I generated a data set, yes.
Raymond Lale (02:47:16):
Okay. All right. If I can approach. Judge. Do you recognize that document?
Tyler Brown (02:47:41):
I do.
Raymond Lale (02:47:42):
Okay. And how do you recognize that document?
Tyler Brown (02:47:44):
It's a report of mine.
Raymond Lale (02:47:45):
Very good. Thank you. Is that the only report that you made in this case?
Tyler Brown (02:47:50):
There would be reports with the data sets or the data as part of the data set.
Raymond Lale (02:47:57):
Okay. So you made some other reports besides this one, correct?
Tyler Brown (02:47:59):
Yes.
Raymond Lale (02:48:00):
Okay. All right. All right. Now, you testified that there was... The one telephone was Ms. Boles' phone. You were successful to get right in that phone, correct?
Tyler Brown (02:48:14):
Yes.
Raymond Lale (02:48:15):
Okay. And the other phone you could not get into, do you know if ultimately that phone was able to extract information from that phone at a later date?
Tyler Brown (02:48:25):
I believe so, yes.
Raymond Lale (02:48:26):
Did you do that or someone else did?
Tyler Brown (02:48:27):
I did not.
Raymond Lale (02:48:27):
Okay.
Tyler Brown (02:48:27):
I was no longer over that unit.
Raymond Lale (02:48:29):
And that's all the involvement you had in this case, right?
Tyler Brown (02:48:30):
Yes, sir.
Raymond Lale (02:48:30):
Thank you, sir. That's all I have.
Judge (02:48:31):
Any redirect?
Speaker 12 (02:48:34):
No redirect.
Judge (02:48:35):
All right. I ask that you be excused.
Speaker 14 (02:48:37):
All right. You can be excused. Thank you very much.
Tyler Brown (02:49:21):
Thank you.
Speaker 13 (02:49:29):
I call Detective Nicholas Hardy.
Judge (02:49:29):
Hey, good morning, sir.
Speaker 11 (02:49:29):
Good morning, sir.
Speaker 14 (02:49:29):
[inaudible 02:49:29]. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Speaker 11 (02:49:33):
I do.
Speaker 13 (02:49:33):
May I approach the witness, Your Honor? [inaudible 02:49:36] Mr. Hardy, can you tell the jury your name, please?
Nicholas Hardy (02:49:39):
Yes, it's Nicholas Hardy.
Speaker 13 (02:49:42):
How are you employed?
Nicholas Hardy (02:49:43):
I am a detective corporal in the city of Acworth.
Speaker 13 (02:49:49):
How did you start your law enforcement career, sir?
Nicholas Hardy (02:49:50):
In 2000, I started with the City of Powder Springs. I worked patrol, worked undercover narcotics, ended up a lieutenant. Lieutenant in our internal affairs division. And then I came to Paulding County in 2018 where I worked homicide, crimes against persons from 2018 to 2023 when I went to Acworth.
Speaker 13 (02:50:16):
Excuse me. Did you have any prior law enforcement experience before that job in Power Springs?
Nicholas Hardy (02:50:21):
No.
Speaker 13 (02:50:23):
Did you become involved in an investigation into the defendant Lacy Boles around December or January, early 2020 in Paulding County?
Nicholas Hardy (02:50:32):
I did.
Speaker 13 (02:50:35):
Were you a detective by that point?
Nicholas Hardy (02:50:38):
Yes. I was a detective in the criminal investigations' division at Paulding County Sheriff's Office.
Speaker 13 (02:50:41):
When did you take the role of detective or criminal investigations' division detective or investigator in Paulding County?
Nicholas Hardy (02:50:48):
I can't remember the exact date, but it was in 2018. I believe it was in November, October of 2019.
Speaker 13 (02:50:59):
Okay. So had you been involved in homicide cases both on the road as a patrol officer, investigator, and as a detective prior to this Boles investigation?
Nicholas Hardy (02:51:09):
Yes. I have worked multiple homicides and more in crimes against persons in my career.
Speaker 13 (02:51:14):
Multiple prior to this case?
Nicholas Hardy (02:51:16):
Yes.
Speaker 13 (02:51:17):
And then after this case, after your transition over to Acworth Police Department, you continued in detective role in criminal investigations?
Nicholas Hardy (02:51:25):
Yes. I work on major cases at Acworth, including crimes against children, our internet crimes against children, and I work our homicides there.
Speaker 13 (02:51:33):
All right, sir. Do you know somebody named Detective Thomas Ogden?
Nicholas Hardy (02:51:39):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 13 (02:51:40):
Were you aware that he worked this case, this Boles case prior to your involvement?
Nicholas Hardy (02:51:44):
Yes.
Speaker 13 (02:51:45):
So how is it, sir, that Detective Ogden, his involvement stops and your involvement starts? Can you tell the jury that?
Nicholas Hardy (02:51:51):
He was being transferred out of criminal investigations and then I believe it was February 19th, I was reassigned the case.
Speaker 13 (02:51:59):
So you come in February of 2019. Do you know anything about the... I'm sorry, go ahead.
Nicholas Hardy (02:52:04):
February of 2020.
Speaker 13 (02:52:05):
2020, I'm sorry. And then do you know anything about the case at that time?
Nicholas Hardy (02:52:08):
Just basic information being talked about around the office. Nothing particular.
Speaker 13 (02:52:13):
All right. So is it fair to say then, sir, you kind of just started from square one when you came in February 2020?
Nicholas Hardy (02:52:19):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 13 (02:52:20):
I can imagine, would you agree with me, it seems like it'd be kind of a challenge to pick up a case from some other detective and just start running with it?
Nicholas Hardy (02:52:28):
It is.
Speaker 13 (02:52:29):
Yeah. You'd rather, I guess, work the case from the night of the incident on.
Nicholas Hardy (02:52:33):
Absolutely.
Speaker 13 (02:52:34):
But if this guy's transferred out to another division, somebody's got to pick up the case, I guess, until it's closed. Is that right?
Nicholas Hardy (02:52:41):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 13 (02:52:42):
And is that how you then became involved?
Nicholas Hardy (02:52:43):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 13 (02:52:44):
Would you classify yourself as a lead detective in the case at that point?
Nicholas Hardy (02:52:47):
Yes, I was assigned as lead detective.
Speaker 13 (02:52:50):
Was there another lead detective working with you, you had a partner with this case or anything like that?
Nicholas Hardy (02:52:55):
I had various detectives that were in the division that helped out, like Detective Ray Bond and Detective Dixon. They would help out with some tasks that I needed.
Speaker 13 (02:53:04):
But as far as a supervisory role, the direction of the investigation, is it fair to say that was you?
Nicholas Hardy (02:53:09):
Yes.
Speaker 13 (02:53:12):
All right, sir. So if you can just tell the jury, I know it's got to be daunting when you pick up a file, someone else has worked it, you don't know anything about it. How do you become involved in the case file, familiarize yourself with the events that have happened up to that point? What do you do?
Nicholas Hardy (02:53:29):
So the first thing I did was obviously I read the original report and then I started looking at all the interviews that had been done, any statements. I looked at all the crime scene photos. I went through the 911 call. I started basically from scratch, just sat at my desk and read everything and reviewed all the videos up to this point.
Speaker 13 (02:53:50):
And that took, I guess, some period of time?
Nicholas Hardy (02:53:52):
Yes. It took me a few days, a couple weeks.
Speaker 13 (02:53:54):
All right, sir. So the jury's been familiarized with just an incredible wealth of scene photos, crime scene photos, incident scene photos. Did you review all of those?
Nicholas Hardy (02:54:06):
I did.
Speaker 13 (02:54:07):
And then there was one live interview that took place, recorded interview with the defendant, with Detective Ogden. Did you look over that?
Nicholas Hardy (02:54:15):
Yes, I've reviewed that several times.
Speaker 13 (02:54:17):
And then there was a written statement that this defendant gave to law enforcement. I'm sure you've read that.
Nicholas Hardy (02:54:23):
Yes, I have.
Speaker 13 (02:54:26):
Did you review the physical evidence as best you could? I know some was probably at other places, GBI, other places, but the physical evidence, did you review at least an inventory of it, a log of it?
Nicholas Hardy (02:54:36):
Yes. I reviewed all the evidence, including the firearm and I did review the clothing of Mr. Akers when it was brought back from the GBI.
Speaker 13 (02:54:44):
Okay. Did you go out and look at the scene yourself at that point at all?
Nicholas Hardy (02:54:50):
Well, at that point I did not until I reviewed everything.
Speaker 13 (02:54:56):
I mean, I'm not saying you knock on the door and go in, but did you drive by or familiarize yourself with that area?
Nicholas Hardy (02:55:01):
Oh yes, I did. I do a drive by and-
Speaker 15 (02:55:00):
... familiarize yourself with that area?
Detective Hardy (02:55:01):
Oh yes, I did. I do a drive-by and look at the residence, yeah.
Speaker 15 (02:55:06):
All right, sir. Is it fair to say, sir, that when you're going through this file and you're looking, do you look at everything that's been done up to that point by every officer?
Detective Hardy (02:55:15):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (02:55:15):
Do you try to get a comprehensive viewpoint of what's been done?
Detective Hardy (02:55:19):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (02:55:21):
Is it fair to say, sir, there were things that were not done that you wish there were done?
Detective Hardy (02:55:25):
Absolutely.
Speaker 15 (02:55:26):
Okay. Is there other things out there that you would've done that other people may not have done?
Detective Hardy (02:55:32):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (02:55:33):
All right. Perfect world, Monday morning quarterback, you would've done something different?
Detective Hardy (02:55:40):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (02:55:40):
All right. Did you have an opportunity to, at any point early in your investigation, review contents of this defendant's phone?
Detective Hardy (02:55:55):
I did.
Speaker 15 (02:55:56):
Can you tell the jury why that can be important in your type of work to look at a criminal defendant's phone, the data contained on the phone?
Detective Hardy (02:56:03):
It gives you almost like a picture of what was happening prior to the death, like reviewing text messages, locations kind of gives you an idea of what happened right before the death.
Speaker 15 (02:56:16):
Did you do a full review of comprehensive examination of the data that was given to you by the tech people from the phone?
Detective Hardy (02:56:23):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (02:56:23):
Did you find it helpful?
Detective Hardy (02:56:28):
I'm sorry, sir?
Speaker 15 (02:56:28):
Did you find that information helpful to your investigation?
Detective Hardy (02:56:31):
Yes. There were several text messages between Ms. Boles and Mr. Akers the day of the incident that indicated that they were in an argument over money and different things.
Speaker 15 (02:56:47):
Is it helpful sometimes if you don't have somebody that's involved in the case... if they're deceased, is it important to look at phones to see what exactly may have been going on at that time?
Detective Hardy (02:56:57):
Yes. You get a picture of what they were going through in their head, or I'm sorry, going through with the text messages, the conversations.
Speaker 15 (02:57:20):
Please approach opposing counsel and show what I'll mark for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 185, 185.
Speaker 16 (02:57:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 15 (02:58:00):
May I approach the witness, please?
Speaker 16 (02:58:01):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (02:58:02):
Sir, let me show you what I'll mark for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 185. And I'll just ask you to look through briefly all the pages in that packet. A collective group of pages, but collectively 185.
Detective Hardy (02:58:19):
Yes, sir. These are the text messages between Mr. Akers and Ms. Boles.
Speaker 15 (02:58:25):
How do you recognize that package of information, sir?
Detective Hardy (02:58:30):
Actually, I believe I printed off the Cellebrite report or a copy of it.
Speaker 15 (02:58:34):
Does it look fair and accurate as a depiction of what you found on this defendant's phone?
Detective Hardy (02:58:40):
It does.
Speaker 15 (02:58:41):
Look through carefully, just take your time. Do there appear to be any changes, alterations, material, misrepresentations, deletions that make it not accurate as to the data points you discovered from this defendant's phone?
Detective Hardy (02:58:59):
No, it's accurate.
Speaker 15 (02:59:05):
Respectfully, move [inaudible 02:59:03] to admit into evidence what's been previously marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 185.
Speaker 17 (02:59:09):
No opposition other than previous hearing.
Speaker 16 (02:59:14):
Move admitted.
Speaker 15 (02:59:15):
And you're using a term, sir, that I know what it is, but other people may not. What are you saying when you say Cellebrite or Cellebrite?
Detective Hardy (02:59:25):
It is the program that does the extraction from the phone and allows us to go through and view the phone. In fact, on this, it says Cellebrite, so I knew it's the report that I printed off.
Speaker 15 (02:59:41):
[inaudible 02:59:40]. State's 185.
Speaker 16 (02:59:42):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (02:59:43):
Thank you. Let me go through some of these text messages. First of all, do you have a date range on these messages? Are there dates and times on the incident report?
Detective Hardy (02:59:54):
So I focused on just the day of the incident. I did go back eventually and look at other text messages, but I wanted to know specifically on this. And this report is just that day range, which was... Sorry, I'm losing my dates here. The 21st of 2019.
Speaker 15 (03:00:17):
So is it important in your type of work to look at the 24 hours immediately leading up to a death in this type of case?
Detective Hardy (03:00:24):
Yes. I try to look at the initial first few hours, the 24 hours.
Speaker 15 (03:00:28):
So this is just that 24 hour or so snapshot, but did you in fact look at all the data on the entire phone at some point?
Detective Hardy (03:00:40):
I did.
Speaker 15 (03:00:40):
All right. How do you know that this phone message is from this defendant's phone? How do you know that?
Detective Hardy (03:00:43):
It's actually labeled "my wife" and then there's the phone numbers that correlate to the defendant and Mr. Akers.
Speaker 15 (03:00:59):
All right. Let me show you the first page of the extraction report. Talk to the jury please about all this data that you see on the first page or the cover page of the report. What does all this mean? For some of it. You don't have to line by line it. What is this?
Detective Hardy (03:02:06):
It just tells us the dates, when it was extracted. I'm sorry, my end is very blurry. It has the case type, just your identifiers.
Speaker 15 (03:02:22):
Were you ever able to review text information from the decedent's phone at some point in the investigation?
Detective Hardy (03:02:30):
From the decedent's phone? Yes. I was supplied with that later on after the phone had finally been unlocked.
Speaker 15 (03:02:39):
Phone's finally broken and were you able to review all that information?
Detective Hardy (03:02:43):
Yes. You provided that with me.
Speaker 15 (03:02:44):
Did it match the text data information you found on the victim's phone?
Detective Hardy (03:02:48):
Yes, it did.
Speaker 15 (03:02:48):
Did it line up?
Detective Hardy (03:02:50):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:02:50):
My wife, Daniel, husband. Did it line up like that?
Detective Hardy (03:02:53):
Yes, it did.
Speaker 15 (03:02:54):
Date and time?
Detective Hardy (03:02:55):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:02:55):
Parties? Did it line up with the parties?
Detective Hardy (03:02:57):
It did.
Speaker 15 (03:02:58):
Did it line up with the phone numbers?
Detective Hardy (03:02:58):
It did.
Speaker 15 (03:03:01):
All right, sir. Take a look at this page. Can you do me a favor? Do you mind just announcing which page? Yes, sir. Thank you. So if I show you page two on state's exhibit 185 at the top, can you orient the jury for the time and date of that message?
Detective Hardy (03:03:30):
Yes. The timestamp is 20:19, 12:21 and the time is 2:26. That's UTC time.
Speaker 15 (03:03:37):
What is UTC time?
Detective Hardy (03:03:39):
It's the generic time. You got to go back five hours or subtract five. I think it's five hours.
Speaker 15 (03:03:47):
All right. So 2:26 PM UTC, that's UTC minus five. So is that 2:26 PM Eastern time?
Detective Hardy (03:03:55):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:03:55):
Eastern time will be UTC minus five, is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:03:56):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:03:56):
All right. So the date on that is 12/21/19 at 2:26 PM. Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:04:10):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:04:10):
Can you read it please?
Detective Hardy (03:04:13):
"Who recorded that video? Sounds like your sister. LOL."
Speaker 15 (03:04:18):
And that was sent from a phone number ending in what? 462?
Detective Hardy (03:04:20):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:04:24):
Did you verify that that was the decedent, Daniel Akers' phone number?
Detective Hardy (03:04:29):
It is.
Speaker 15 (03:04:30):
Okay. So we have Daniel Akers ending in 462 and then two. Who does it say to?
Detective Hardy (03:04:37):
"My wife," and the last four is 1698.
Speaker 15 (03:04:41):
Did you verify that 1698 is this defendant's or was at the time this defendant's cell phone?
Detective Hardy (03:04:46):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:04:46):
All right, sir. You can move on to the next message. Next message we have looks to be very shortly after 2:28. Would you agree with that?
Detective Hardy (03:04:56):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:04:57):
From Daniel Akers to " my wife." What does it say there?
Detective Hardy (03:05:06):
"Bread, Oreos, cracker, soup, boxes. Do they have your hair color at Family Dollar or do you want burgundy again?"
Speaker 15 (03:05:17):
Okay. Next.
Detective Hardy (03:05:19):
"Yes, they do. And yes, that's fine."
Speaker 15 (03:05:22):
I'm sorry, Detective Hardy.
Detective Hardy (03:05:23):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 15 (03:05:23):
I was talking to the investigator. If we can just move it up a little bit before you-
Detective Hardy (03:05:26):
Oh, sorry.
Speaker 15 (03:05:27):
I apologize.
Detective Hardy (03:05:27):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:05:28):
So Investigator Burke, you can move it up as far as you can, and we'll get over to this message here a little bit further if you can. So we have just a moment later at 2:39, right?
Detective Hardy (03:05:40):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:05:42):
Now this is from the defendant to the decedent. What does that say?
Detective Hardy (03:05:44):
It says, "Yes, they do. And yes, that's fine."
Speaker 15 (03:05:46):
And is this, to your knowledge, 12/21/2019?
Detective Hardy (03:05:47):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:05:51):
Is that the afternoon before this decedent's ultimate demise?
Detective Hardy (03:05:58):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:05:58):
The afternoon PM hours, and then are you aware what time he was killed?
Detective Hardy (03:06:03):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:06:04):
12:23, 12:25 AM the next day?
Detective Hardy (03:06:09):
The next day.
Speaker 15 (03:06:12):
Excuse me, would this be Saturday afternoon?
Detective Hardy (03:06:14):
Yes, this is Saturday afternoon.
Speaker 15 (03:06:15):
12/21/19.
Detective Hardy (03:06:18):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:06:19):
All right. Can we show the page now three, Investigator Burke? I'll show it to you. Page three on State's Exhibit 185, please, starting at the top. This next one to... Let's see. It doesn't look to be... It says milk, so it's not a lot here, correct?
Detective Hardy (03:06:40):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:06:40):
Let's move up to the next one. So this one is from who?
Detective Hardy (03:06:48):
It's from Ms. Boles.
Speaker 15 (03:06:49):
To?
Detective Hardy (03:06:50):
To Mr. Akers.
Speaker 15 (03:06:51):
And what does it say? So from defendant to Daniel, what does it say?
Detective Hardy (03:06:56):
"I just talked to Wes and he said yes. Don't tell him. It's too free, please."
Speaker 15 (03:07:10):
Okay. All right. The next one, Investigator Burke. So now, 2:53 PM in the afternoon, Saturday afternoon, from who?
Detective Hardy (03:07:16):
It's from Mr. Akers to his wife.
Speaker 15 (03:07:18):
And what does it say?
Detective Hardy (03:07:20):
"Hi, I've got to buy the thing food."
Speaker 15 (03:07:23):
"I've got to buy the thing food." Is that what you see?
Detective Hardy (03:07:26):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:07:27):
Are you aware, did you become aware as part of your investigation in this death that there was some discussion about buying a pet pig?
Detective Hardy (03:07:35):
Yes, Mr. Akers was at Tractor Supply and I believe he was buying a pet pig for one of their children.
Speaker 15 (03:07:42):
Pig or food or something?
Detective Hardy (03:07:44):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:07:45):
Did you see pictures, in fact, on a phone of a bunch of pigs? Do you remember?
Detective Hardy (03:07:50):
Yes, I do recall that.
Speaker 15 (03:07:50):
Okay. Pet pigs, not agricultural.
Detective Hardy (03:07:54):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:07:54):
Pet pigs. All right. You remember that?
Detective Hardy (03:07:56):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:07:58):
And go up, please, Investigator Burke, to message number seven. Are these chronological then, 6-7 as it goes down? 6-7?
Detective Hardy (03:08:06):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:08:07):
All right. And then this says from this defendant to Mr. Akers, right?
Detective Hardy (03:08:15):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:08:16):
And what does it say there?
Detective Hardy (03:08:18):
"Where are we going to keep it for now? I told Wes he had to pick it up on their way back from aunt's house."
Speaker 15 (03:08:24):
"Where are we going to keep it for now?" "I told Wes he had to pick it up." And this is from this defendant to Dan, is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:08:31):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:08:32):
Does it appear to be to you possibly about the same pet [inaudible 03:08:36]?
Detective Hardy (03:08:36):
Yes, they're talking about the pig.
Speaker 15 (03:08:39):
Based on your knowledge and experience with the investigation, was the pig... You know it was around Christmas time, right?
Detective Hardy (03:08:45):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:08:46):
Did you understand it to be that this pig was going to be some kind of gift for one of the gifts?
Detective Hardy (03:08:51):
Yes, it was going to be one of the presents for one of their children.
Speaker 15 (03:08:53):
Thank you. Going on to page four of State's Exhibit 185. Thank you, sir. So now message eight specifically, we have Daniel Akers to his spouse, this defendant. What is that? Like some kind of a JPEG picture or something?
Detective Hardy (03:09:15):
Yes, sir. I can't recall what that picture is and it's not clear enough for me to...
Speaker 15 (03:09:20):
It might have been like a GIF or something, a picture?
Detective Hardy (03:09:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 15 (03:09:25):
All right. The next one, Investigator Burke, please. Message number nine, we have from Mr. Akers to his wife, okay? From Mr. Akers, Daniel, to this defendant, right?
Detective Hardy (03:09:37):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:09:39):
Read that, please. And that's 12/21/19, 3:09 PM. So first, let me stop you. Does this appear to all be a continuous text chain to you?
Detective Hardy (03:09:49):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:09:49):
Is there any huge gaps that would indicate this is somehow fragmented or broken, like this is later on, or is this all part of the same flowing conversation?
Detective Hardy (03:09:57):
It appears to be all the same conversation.
Speaker 15 (03:10:00):
All right. So now we have this, Daniel Akers to this defendant. What does it say here?
Detective Hardy (03:10:08):
"In order to help us out, I think a smart idea would be make this thing either a Christmas present or a birthday present, an Amazon card, one or the other. I'm not going to do more for her than the other kids."
Speaker 15 (03:10:19):
"I'm not going to do more for her than the other kids," and that's from Daniel. Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:10:26):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:10:26):
And go on to the next one, Mr. Burke. This is message 10, page three, 185. I'm sorry, page four, 185. So now we have this defendant back to Daniel and it says what?
Detective Hardy (03:10:38):
"You gave everyone else $100 for their birthdays."
Speaker 15 (03:10:41):
This is defendant to Daniel, is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:10:43):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:10:44):
And go on to page five of State's Exhibit 185, please, Investigator Burke. Thank you. At the top, we're now on message 11 or so, again, 3:00, 3:30, Saturday afternoon before Mr. Akers would die on Sunday morning, 12:30-ish. Message 11, this is from Dan Akers to the defendant, is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:11:10):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:11:11):
And read that, please.
Detective Hardy (03:11:12):
"Look, I know your heart is in the right place. We just don't have it like that, and we are not at all prepared for furlough. Nobody knows how much this pig costs, plus food, and I'm not trying to make the baby suffer because we want to fake have money."
Speaker 15 (03:11:30):
All right. Let me make sure I understand it. Is that from the decedent, Daniel, to this defendant?
Detective Hardy (03:11:37):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:11:43):
Investigator Burke, can we go to message 12? So at 3:24, if I can orient you to that, timestamp 3:24, "This is now..." Tell the jury who the parties are and which way the conversation is now going on message 12.
Detective Hardy (03:12:00):
It's from Mr. Akers to Ms. Boles, and he's asking, "Do you want burgundy hair color or black?"
Speaker 15 (03:12:06):
All right. And now message 13, we see that looks like the same direction, right?
Detective Hardy (03:12:14):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:12:14):
Decedent to defendant." Read that.
Detective Hardy (03:12:17):
It's from Mr. Akers to Ms. Boles. "Look, there's no argument to it. That's what it is."
Speaker 15 (03:12:26):
And next, please, in message 14, page five, State's 185.
Detective Hardy (03:12:32):
Now this one is-
Speaker 15 (03:12:32):
It's now 3:29 PM. Which way is this conversation flowing, sir?
Detective Hardy (03:12:38):
This one is now from Ms. Boles to Mr. Akers, and it states, "Then you shouldn't have accused me of stealing and returning Lindsay's first game we bought her for $60, then turn around and buying her another one for 60. That 120, then I have her $30 cash. Ava got her camera plus her package that went with her camera, her party, et cetera. Phoenix got 100 cash. Who's not being real?"
Speaker 15 (03:13:13):
All right, sir. If I can show page six of State's 185, please, the next message. Let me say what time this one is. This is just shortly after that, it looks like 3:29. Would you agree with that?
Detective Hardy (03:13:27):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:13:28):
And which way is this flowing?
Detective Hardy (03:13:30):
This is from Ms. Boles to Mr. Akers.
Speaker 15 (03:13:33):
Saying?
Detective Hardy (03:13:35):
"Argument to what exactly? You keep treating me this way, you won't have anyone to argue with, and that's a promise."
Speaker 15 (03:13:45):
"You keep treating me this way, you won't have anybody to argue with. And that's a promise." And that was from defendant to decedent. Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:13:51):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:13:52):
All right. Next message, 16, please. This is from who to who?
Detective Hardy (03:13:56):
This is from Ms. Boles to Mr. Akers. " You make me feel so shitty for not having money, and I promise you I have spent my fair share and invested my fair amount. Gives you no right to continuously treat me like shit. What's your ulterior motives here? Someone else or something else you're hiding? Either way, cut the shit." And in capital letters, which is known for being in text messages, you're yelling.
Speaker 15 (03:14:27):
That's fine. Don't give us that. Just read it.
Detective Hardy (03:14:29):
Yes, sir. "I'm over it and have been very aware I'm just a mistake to you."
Speaker 15 (03:14:35):
This was this defendant to this decedent. Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:14:37):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:14:44):
Hold on. At 3:33, Saturday afternoon.
Detective Hardy (03:14:45):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:14:47):
Message 17, please.
Detective Hardy (03:14:49):
Again, from Ms. Boles to Mr. Akers, "I hope you feel better about yourself though, and especially when you look in the mirror and reflect on all this. Hell, you're putting me through and treating me like a damn piece of trash."
Speaker 15 (03:15:03):
That's 3:36 on Saturday. Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:15:07):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:15:07):
PM?
Detective Hardy (03:15:08):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:15:09):
May I show, please, page seven now of State's 185, message number 18, please, top. And this is... Let me get the time here. It looks to be around the same time. Would you agree? What time is that?
Detective Hardy (03:15:30):
It's 3:36 and like 46 seconds.
Speaker 15 (03:15:32):
And the direction of this conversation?
Detective Hardy (03:15:35):
This is from Ms. Boles again to Mr. Akers. "I hope it helps you sleep well at night. Maybe that's why your back hurts and you can't sleep."
Speaker 15 (03:15:43):
Three minutes later, message 19. Can you read that and tell the direction of travel of that message, please?
Detective Hardy (03:15:51):
Yes. This is from Mr. Akers to Ms. Boles, 3:39 and like two seconds. "Lacey, I'm not saying that you don't put in your fair share. What I'm saying is that I am by myself right now. I am no one looking out to keep a roof over your head and over our baby's head. Everyone else has another roof to be under and you have someone else feeding them. So this has nothing to do with you or your money or your money to come. This is about being smarter, stronger, and taking the best care of you and the ones that actually have to live and survive with us."
Speaker 15 (03:16:32):
Is that Dan to this defendant?
Detective Hardy (03:16:34):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:16:35):
Can you go to message 20, please, sir? And this would be, looks like 3:46. And who is this? Is this again Daniel to this defendant?
Detective Hardy (03:16:44):
Yes. This is Mr. Akers to Ms. Boles at 3:46 and like 19 seconds. "That is my job and yours too. Either you mature to that, knock the games off so we can be happy and possibly have something one day. There is a way more to than just running the house. We are going to work every day. I should not have to explain this to you. I'm sorry if you don't agree, but you are not the one that gets looked at if we don't have money to pay bills. If we don't have the money to feed our kids, if we don't have the money to keep a roof over their head. I wish I did have the money. I wish I could do everything and anything for all the kids, but what you're asking is to take food out of the baby's mouth and give it to one of their siblings as a present. I'm desperately trying to get caught up and ahead. We are 36 years old and should not have to ask for help from anyone."
Speaker 15 (03:17:46):
And that's message 20 from Daniel to the decedent?
Detective Hardy (03:17:51):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:17:52):
May I please have published, Your Honor, page eight of State's 185 at the top, message number 21. And that's starting off at 3:46. Would you agree that this is now served from this defendant back to Daniel?
Detective Hardy (03:18:09):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:18:10):
Read it, please.
Detective Hardy (03:18:12):
Again, the message comes from Ms. Boles to Mr. Akers at about 3:46 and 37 seconds. "I've invested plenty before my money comes. Don't dare just stop or just keep getting high and lying about it. Shove it."
Speaker 15 (03:18:31):
Message 22, please, Investigator Burke. Thank you. And this is from who to who now?
Detective Hardy (03:18:37):
This is now from Mr. Akers to Mrs. Boles at 3:47 and 25 seconds.
Speaker 15 (03:18:42):
Just a little bit moments later.
Detective Hardy (03:18:44):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:18:45):
Can you read that?
Detective Hardy (03:18:46):
"You're such a fucking liar. I don't have to prove shit. To you. I'm not a boy. I am now clean, 100% legal. Tell your fake to someone else."
Speaker 15 (03:18:59):
That's 3:47, you said?
Detective Hardy (03:19:02):
Yes, sir. And like 25 seconds.
Speaker 15 (03:19:03):
On Saturday the 21st.
Detective Hardy (03:19:06):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:19:08):
Message 23, please, looks to be from this defendant back to Mr. Akers. Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:19:13):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:19:14):
At 3:47, so seconds later.
Detective Hardy (03:19:17):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:19:18):
What does that say?
Detective Hardy (03:19:19):
"Rome wasn't built in a day, genius. Lie to the next one."
Speaker 15 (03:19:22):
"Lie to the next one," coming from this defendant to Daniel. Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:19:26):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:19:29):
Go to message 24, please. The final message on page number eight right here. So this is from who?
Detective Hardy (03:19:36):
This is from Ms. Boles to Mr. Akers at 3-
Speaker 15 (03:19:39):
Says what?
Detective Hardy (03:19:42):
"Or then it's someone else. I'm sick F tired of being treated like and talked to like and out down and dogged out. Get over yourself."
Speaker 15 (03:19:55):
That's from this defendant to Daniel?
Detective Hardy (03:19:58):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:19:59):
Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:20:00):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:20:01):
Page number nine, please, starting with message number 25. You can go forward and continue this text chain, please. So let me say this is, looks like 3:52. Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:20:17):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:20:18):
And this is message 25. And this looks like this is coming from the defendant to Daniel. Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:20:21):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:20:21):
Please read it.
Detective Hardy (03:20:24):
"You want better from me? This isn't the way you get it. You're not simple. Either so you already know treating..." I can't read that. I don't know what she was meaning or what that word is.
Speaker 15 (03:20:37):
Looks to be spelled M-O-T-J-U-A-T. Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:20:40):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:20:41):
Maybe spell check or something. Who knows?
Detective Hardy (03:20:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 15 (03:20:44):
And then after it, just keep going from treating. Skip that one.
Detective Hardy (03:20:46):
"... anyone but your wife that like shit isn't the damn way to go."
Speaker 15 (03:20:52):
Damn way to get it. See it? Right?
Detective Hardy (03:20:55):
Damn way to get it, yep.
Speaker 15 (03:20:56):
I know your version's kind of blurry, but you'll go to message 26. Who is this? This is from this defendant to her then-husband, correct?
Detective Hardy (03:21:05):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:21:06):
What time?
Detective Hardy (03:21:08):
At 3:52 and 15 seconds from Ms. Boles to Mr. Akers. "Not just anyone." And it's got some little arrow.
Speaker 15 (03:21:20):
Okay. Next message, 27, a little bit later, 4:11. Read that.
Detective Hardy (03:21:21):
Again, from Ms. Boles to Mr. Akers. "And you've been gone for two hours. Facts."
Speaker 15 (03:21:29):
"You've been gone for two hours!" Exclamation point, "Facts!" Exclamation point. Is that what you see?
Detective Hardy (03:21:35):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:21:36):
Page number 10, please. This will start with message number 28. Now we're at around 4:23 PM, 4:23 Saturday afternoon. You see that?
Detective Hardy (03:21:51):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:21:51):
And who's this from and who's it to?
Detective Hardy (03:21:54):
It's from Mr. Akers to Ms. Boles, and it's some type of picture message.
Speaker 15 (03:21:59):
Another GIF picture?
Detective Hardy (03:22:00):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:22:01):
Can't really see what it is. Go on up to 29. And this is who?
Detective Hardy (03:22:06):
This is from Ms. Boles to Mr. Akers, and it's another type of gift, I guess, is what you call them.
Speaker 15 (03:22:13):
This is from this defendant to Daniel with another. So are these kind of trading pictures back?
Detective Hardy (03:22:18):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:22:19):
One comes in from Daniel, one goes out from this defendant. Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:22:23):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:22:24):
And the next one, message 30. Now, there is some time difference here. So I'm sorry, Investigator Burke. Can we go to 29 again? So this is [inaudible 03:22:38] PM. Would you agree?
Detective Hardy (03:22:41):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:22:41):
Is that Saturday afternoon?
Detective Hardy (03:22:47):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:22:47):
Now we're going into [inaudible 03:22:48]. Do you agree with that?
Detective Hardy (03:22:48):
Yes, sir. Now we're going into the evening time.
Speaker 15 (03:22:49):
So this is message 30, page number 10 of State's 185. Would you agree we're now in the nighttime of Saturday?
Detective Hardy (03:22:58):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:22:59):
Who is this message from and who is it to?
Detective Hardy (03:23:02):
This is from Ms. Boles to Mr. Akers.
Speaker 15 (03:23:05):
What does it say, sir? At 9:28 PM Saturday that night, what does it say?
Detective Hardy (03:23:11):
It says, "Run, run as fast as you can. Too bad, foe, you're not the gingerbread man."
Speaker 15 (03:23:19):
"Run, run as fast as you can. Too bad, foe you, you're not the gingerbread man." Is that what you see?
Detective Hardy (03:23:27):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:23:28):
And may I please publish this, page number 11 on State's 185, taking us to message 31 for the record. So we're now on message 31. We're still in that nighttime area. Would you agree, 9:32?
Detective Hardy (03:23:42):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:23:43):
It's from who to who?
Detective Hardy (03:23:45):
This is from Mr. Akers to Ms. Boles.
Speaker 15 (03:23:49):
And it says what, sir?
Detective Hardy (03:23:50):
"Lie to everyone and fool them, but you cannot lie to me. I know you."
Speaker 15 (03:23:55):
This is from Daniel to this defendant?
Detective Hardy (03:23:58):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:24:00):
" At 9:32." Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:24:03):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:24:04):
Message 32, it looks like 9:56. Do you see that?
Detective Hardy (03:24:08):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:24:09):
So now 9:56 Saturday night is from who? This defendant to Daniel?
Detective Hardy (03:24:18):
Yes, sir. And there is no message in this one.
Speaker 15 (03:24:19):
Okay. Just a blank.
Detective Hardy (03:24:19):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:24:19):
And then message 33, this is at 10:11 PM, so 10:00 at night Saturday from who to who?
Detective Hardy (03:24:27):
This is from Mr. Akers to Ms. Boles.
Speaker 15 (03:24:30):
And what does it say, please?
Detective Hardy (03:24:31):
"You never met anyone 50/50, halfway. Oh, that's right. You go find you someone else. You put your mind to it. All you do is use me and I'm sick of it. Find that someone to pay your rent, bills, and your groceries, et cetera. I just stayed because you said your dad was coming. I don't run from no one, so you should know I'm not running from you. Or your stupidity you have going on there. I'm trying to leave you behind. My sentence has been served and you don't want to get right. So fuck it all." And there's some type of, I guess, emojis. "You better learn fast or God bless you. I'm just a kid, right? Well, this kid ain't going for your fuckery anymore.
Speaker 15 (03:25:31):
Fakery.
Detective Hardy (03:25:31):
Fakery. I'm sorry. It's so blurry, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:25:34):
That's okay.
Detective Hardy (03:25:34):
"... fakery anymore. I'm doing me."
Speaker 15 (03:25:36):
We need to make sure I understand which way this is going. Tell me again which way this is going.
Detective Hardy (03:25:41):
This is going from Mr. Akers to Ms. Boles.
Speaker 15 (03:25:45):
This is from Daniel to this defendant?
Detective Hardy (03:25:48):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:25:48):
10:11 PM, does it say, "I'm trying to leave you behind." Do you see that?
Detective Hardy (03:25:59):
Yes, sir. I do.
Speaker 15 (03:26:00):
" My sentence has been served." Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:26:02):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:26:03):
From Daniel to this defendant?
Detective Hardy (03:26:05):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:26:07):
Page 12, message number 35, please. State's 185. Message 35, 10:18 PM. Is that still the same direction, from this decedent, Daniel Akers, to this defendant?
Detective Hardy (03:26:26):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:26:26):
Can you read it?
Detective Hardy (03:26:27):
"Good. I'm glad you understand."
Speaker 15 (03:26:31):
And now it looks like we reverse direction at 10:19 a moment later, and this is from this defendant to the decedent. Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:26:38):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:26:41):
Can you read it?
Detective Hardy (03:26:42):
I'm sorry. It's from Ms. Boles to Mr. Akers. "You do you and find you in loyalty and respect and honesty. Sounds like Kevin. I'm dead."
Speaker 15 (03:26:58):
Message 37, please. Let me see. Is there any message content there?
Detective Hardy (03:27:02):
No, there is not.
Speaker 15 (03:27:03):
A blank message from...
Detective Hardy (03:27:05):
From Ms. Akers-
Speaker 15 (03:27:06):
[Inaudible 03:27:07] blank from this defendant to Daniel.
Detective Hardy (03:27:08):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:27:13):
Message 38, it's from who?
Detective Hardy (03:27:14):
It's from Mr. Akers to Ms. Boles.
Speaker 15 (03:27:17):
And just a minute later, seconds later, correct?
Detective Hardy (03:27:20):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:27:20):
And what does it say?
Detective Hardy (03:27:22):
It says, "Bahahaha, that dope head loser, that's rich."
Speaker 15 (03:27:27):
Okay. Message number 39 on page 13 of state's exhibit 185, please. If we can see the top message there, which would be the next one. So for 39 now, this is from who?
Detective Hardy (03:27:42):
This is from Mr. Akers to Ms. Boles.
Speaker 15 (03:27:44):
At 10:21?
Detective Hardy (03:27:47):
Yes, sir. "I guess I'd rather sound like him than look like him, like you do, walking geek face."
Speaker 15 (03:27:57):
That's from the decedent to the defendant.
(03:28:00)
Yes, sir. And number 40?
Detective Hardy (03:28:03):
This one's from Ms. Boles to Mr. Akers.
Speaker 15 (03:28:05):
At 10:21?
Detective Hardy (03:28:08):
Yes, sir. At 10:21 and 40 seconds. "You pay either way, hater. Keep making me greater. Blocked, bitch. Talk to my lawyer. Mistake after 2018. Not a grower or a show." And then errr or some... E-R-R-R.
Speaker 15 (03:28:25):
"Not a grower or a shower." You see that?
Detective Hardy (03:28:29):
Yes. There's some dots and then it's E-R-R-R.
Speaker 15 (03:28:31):
That's from this defendant to Daniel, is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:28:31):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:28:31):
At 10:21?
Detective Hardy (03:28:31):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:28:33):
And then we go to 41, please. And this is what direction?
Detective Hardy (03:28:43):
This is from Mr. Akers to Ms. Boles.
Speaker 15 (03:28:46):
All right. And it's 10:24. Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:28:49):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:28:49):
Saturday night, 10/21/19. Is that right?
Detective Hardy (03:28:52):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:28:53):
What's it say?
Detective Hardy (03:28:54):
It says, "Hater, keep me greater. Hahaha. How fucking old are you? Sounds like a punk 16-year-old that's thugging."
Speaker 15 (03:29:06):
Is that from Daniel to this defendant?
Detective Hardy (03:29:08):
Yes.
Speaker 15 (03:29:09):
Now page number 14 of State's 185, beginning with message 42, please. This is message 42. Would you agree, sir, it looks like 10:25?
Detective Hardy (03:29:27):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:29:29):
What does it say here from who to who?
Detective Hardy (03:29:31):
This is from Mr. Akers to Ms. Boles at 10:25 and 33 seconds and it just says, "Shh."
Speaker 15 (03:29:37):
Is it an emoji?
Detective Hardy (03:29:39):
Yes. I'm sorry. There's an emoji with a face and it says "Shh" on it.
Speaker 15 (03:29:47):
Emoji, is it from Daniel to this defendant?
Detective Hardy (03:29:47):
It is.
Speaker 15 (03:29:50):
And the next one, 43, please. And this is 10:26?
Detective Hardy (03:29:54):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 15 (03:29:54):
And this is who? From who to who?
Detective Hardy (03:29:57):
This is from Mr. Akers to Ms. Boles at 10:26 and like nine seconds. "Sounds stupid-"
Speaker 18 (03:30:01):
... nine seconds. Sound stupid. You're too pretty to sound so stupid.
Witness (03:30:08):
Next one, message 44. Or actually it's a little bit... Can we go back to 43? I'm sorry. So this is 10:26. You see that?
Speaker 18 (03:30:18):
Yes, sir.
Witness (03:30:18):
And a little time passes, would you agree with a little time passage here to message 44?
Speaker 18 (03:30:23):
Yes, sir.
Witness (03:30:24):
Looks like about maybe 45 minutes passes. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 18 (03:30:28):
Yes, sir.
Witness (03:30:28):
And this is message 44 from who to who?
Speaker 18 (03:30:31):
This is from Mr. Akers to Ms. Bowles at 11:16: 34. "You it away with the way you act. Don't want to be your man. You can't handle being real. So F-U-K off, F-U-K yourself or whatever you do. And since I pay for it, I'll sleep there or not. I don't care dummy. You made me not give a F-U-K. You're bad."
Witness (03:31:06):
The last page of the message is page number [inaudible 03:31:08], beginning with message 45, please. So let me get the time orientation here. What time is this next one sent?
Speaker 18 (03:31:21):
This one's at 11:42 and 25 seconds.
Witness (03:31:23):
So 11:42 on what day? Saturday night?
Speaker 18 (03:31:27):
Yes.
Witness (03:31:28):
So this is now coming in within less than one hour that he has to lift. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 18 (03:31:34):
Yes.
Witness (03:31:34):
And who is this to and who is it from?
Speaker 18 (03:31:37):
This is from Ms. Bowles to Mr. Akers.
Witness (03:31:40):
It says what?
Speaker 18 (03:31:42):
"I'm about to have your job, your paycheck and your babies. Bitch." And I would prefer not to say that.
Witness (03:31:50):
N-word, right?
Speaker 18 (03:31:50):
Yes. "Bitch, done. Fucked up. Call to Steve Langley already arranged. Pronto in the AM. Damn, Dan. You're fucking done, son."
Witness (03:32:03):
You fucking done, son. And that was from this defendant?
Speaker 18 (03:32:07):
Yes.
Witness (03:32:08):
Did you know Steve Langley was Daniel Akers' boss?
Speaker 18 (03:32:12):
Yes, I learned that in my investigation.
Witness (03:32:14):
So you see here this defendant saying she's going to call his boss in the morning. Is that what you take? How do you take it?
Speaker 18 (03:32:20):
That's what I take from that message.
Witness (03:32:25):
All right. The message number 46, please. This is message 46 at 11:43 PM Saturday night. From who to who?
Speaker 18 (03:32:35):
This is from Ms. Bowles to Mr. Akers at 11:43 and six seconds. And it says, "Fuck with the next one, whore, blocked and out."
Witness (03:32:47):
And who said that?
Speaker 18 (03:32:48):
Ms. Bowles.
Witness (03:32:50):
And the next message, 47, please. This is Daniel to this defendant?
Speaker 18 (03:32:55):
This is Mr. Akers to Ms. Bowles at 12: 11:26. "Okay, kiddo."
Witness (03:33:04):
And then the last message, 48, is this last message that you know was ever received or sent by this man?
Speaker 18 (03:33:16):
This is his last message.
Witness (03:33:18):
And it says, sir?
Speaker 18 (03:33:20):
"I told you to stop your shit."
Witness (03:33:22):
That's from him to her. Is that right?
Speaker 18 (03:33:24):
Yes.
Witness (03:33:27):
And that's 12:11 AM on Sunday morning. Is that right?
Speaker 18 (03:33:31):
Yes, sir.
Witness (03:33:32):
What did you estimate time of death to be?
Speaker 18 (03:33:36):
I didn't estimate a time of death, but it happened shortly after that.
Witness (03:33:39):
Shortly after that?
Speaker 18 (03:33:40):
Yes, sir.
Witness (03:33:46):
You saw the time of the 911 call, right?
Speaker 18 (03:33:48):
Yes, sir.
Witness (03:33:48):
That's logged in.
Speaker 18 (03:33:49):
Yes, sir.
Witness (03:33:50):
Do you know then that this was minutes before the 911 call?
Speaker 18 (03:33:55):
Yes, this was his last message minutes before.
Witness (03:33:59):
All right. Your Honor, it's 12:20. I'm ready to take a break if you are, but I'll keep going if you direct me to do so. But there's quite a lot more for this witness.
Judge (03:34:09):
Okay. I don't mind. I don't mind breaking at this point and we've kind of established a tradition here, hour and 15 minutes, so that gets us to 1: 35. See you by 1:35.
Speaker 19 (04:05:00):
(silence)
Speaker 20 (04:55:59):
... transcripts. Both my issues are going to be regarding these transcripts. State moved vigorously to keep transcripts out. The court overruled that motion allowing the transcripts.
(04:56:10)
The first issue I have is now it's come to my attention that the jury has had the transcripts of the December interview of the defendant back in the jury room for some period of time and free to look at that evidence at their leisure. I don't even think that evidence would go out with the jury at all, even if they were in deliberations. Now they've had the chance to go and review these transcripts back there in the jury room. I don't know how that happened or why, but that's a real problem.
(04:56:36)
And second of all, transition, Your Honor, respectfully to my second argument, I am respectfully imploring upon this court not to allow transcripts for the interview that I'm about play. The third interview of the defendant, March 5th, 2020.
(04:56:53)
And we kind of argue this stuff pretrial and the abstract and we say, "Well, this could happen or that could happen." But now we have history on our side to tell us what will happen and what is happening, what has happened.
(04:57:06)
When that December video was played, the December 30th interview of this defendant, when that video was played, Your Honor, every single person with the single exception of a lady that sits up here on the top right in the second row, every single person read that transcript and did not watch the video evidence at all. It wasn't even close. Nobody was watching the video. And I respectfully posit to this court that video evidence is important. The body language is important. The observation of this defendant under examination or interrogation is important.
(04:57:42)
And while I respect incredibly well, incredibly well this defendant's due process rights, I also posit to the court that the state has a right to have its evidence presented and observed and shown to the jury members. And they're not watching the evidence. They're merely reading a transcript. And what has been intended to be an aid has become substitute. And that's a real problem. Nobody's watching the video.
(04:58:11)
And I'd ask the court, based on now what we have seen, what we know is happening, where no one is watching, the only thing they're doing is reading. We know it's happening. I don't think Your Honor had a transcript. Your Honor said, "I have one. I don't really need one." And I saw Your Honor watching the video. Your Honor wasn't sitting there reading, so I don't know if Your Honor had an opportunity to look over it. The jurors didn't observe what I observed, but I didn't have a transcript at all. So I was free to watch the video and concentrate on what the jury was doing almost without fail, not a single person's watching.
(04:58:45)
And that's a real problem. And I'd ask the court to consider based on that, not allowing the transcript. This isn't a case where the defendant speaks another language. She's a thick accent. It's very easy to understand what she's saying. It is clear. The volume works really well. You can understand her. And why is there a need for a transcript?
(04:59:05)
Of course, I understand the defense's need for a transcript. They don't want the jurors to see body language reactions, visual reactions to certain questions. So the transcript's incredibly helpful to the defendant, but what's happening is we're being denied an opportunity to have the jury see this evidence. And then of course, we've got the issue now with these transcripts floating back to the jury room. Huge problem. So that's my motion. Thank you.
Speaker 21 (04:59:31):
All right. Care to respond?
Brian Steel (04:59:36):
I can't agree. I cannot agree that jurors are ignoring the court's instruction that the evidence is the recording or that the jurors were ignoring the December 30th, 2019 interview. I don't have one way or another to agree or disagree. Transcripts are in aid. The court instructed that. Jurors are deemed to follow the court's instructions. It's total discretionary call where the transcripts are used. There's no right answer. There's no reversal on this. You can do whatever you believe is appropriate. I just wish it was said, if I would've noticed that, knowing me, I would've said at the beginning of the transcript of December 30th, 2019 being played, I would've asked, "Your Honor, can we just approach for a minute and stop it," and ask this honor the court to say, possibly some of you are looking down and reading, the evidence is the video. It almost is like a waiver. I mean, I don't know why the state, if that accurately happened in their purview, why didn't they just say something at that time?
(05:00:52)
So I'd like to continue going like we are. I know the law. So whatever you decide, you are very highly qualified to make the decisions on how to try this case. So we'll just, whatever you say, we understand.
Speaker 21 (05:01:09):
Well, if you're telling me you really don't care and the state really does, then I'm going to go with the state because ...
Brian Steel (05:01:18):
I care. Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 21 (05:01:22):
No, you understand what I'm saying?
Brian Steel (05:01:23):
Yeah. I obviously care, but I didn't see people ignoring the transcript. I mean ignoring the video. I would've said something. And to say the defense doesn't want the jurors to watch the video is a total mistake. I mean, I've never said that to anyone. I've never wanted that. I'm not trying to hide anything. We come in here totally clean hands. We're just trying the case. So that part I would assume is just the prosecutor just trying to put ideas into other people's minds, but there's no basis of that.
(05:02:03)
Would I like the transcript used? Yes. I'd like to also move the trial. I'm just telling you the law. I mean, what else am I going to say? Yes, I'd like to have them, but I'm just telling you the law. The way I understand the law is you can make the call.
Speaker 21 (05:02:19):
All right. And so the remaining interview that's going to be played is which one?
Speaker 20 (05:02:25):
It's an interview from March 5th, 2020, and that's the final interview. It's a live interview about an hour long, and it's quite extensive between Detective Hardy and this defendant. It's heavily redacted. Transcripts were heavily redacted, but I think accurate to the redactions ordered by the court.
Speaker 21 (05:02:48):
All right. And as to the first issue, this is news to me that the transcripts are in the jury room. I will collect them. I'll ask, I didn't know that. Diane, did you know?
Diane (05:03:00):
Well, I wasn't here that day, but it was for the first because they have the ones that I passed out.
Speaker 21 (05:03:07):
All right. Well, we need to collect them and make sure no transcripts go back. Is there any kind of curative measure you want or you just want me to make sure they're out of there?
Speaker 20 (05:03:17):
Unfortunately, I have to wonder and ask the court, do we think these jurors had the opportunity to take these transcripts home? Because they just appeared in the jury room. I don't know if they took them home with them and looked at them. I don't know.
Speaker 21 (05:03:31):
Well, let me ask the bailiff if we have any idea whether ...
Diane (05:03:36):
If memory serves, it looked like they were all laying on the table when we left that afternoon.
Speaker 21 (05:03:45):
Okay.
Diane (05:03:45):
So they were there when we come in the first morning, the next morning.
Speaker 20 (05:03:45):
Maybe just secure-
Diane (05:03:48):
So they didn't go out. I feel sure of that.
Speaker 20 (05:03:52):
I'm sorry to interrupt you, ma'am. Maybe just a curative that you're not going to, you will receive all the evidence and exhibits that you're allowed to receive once the trial concludes. And until that point, you shouldn't be looking at anything. Even something like transcript is not evidence and won't be entered in evidence. You shouldn't be considering tangible things or discussing the case at all until deliberations start. That's the only, and the first and only time you can start doing that amongst yourself. Maybe something like that.
Speaker 21 (05:04:21):
Any objection to that, Mr. Steel?
Brian Steel (05:04:24):
Yeah. So there's no evidence that anyone read anything. Your instructions are don't discuss the case with each other. Don't do any research on the case. All the information comes from this courtroom and wait till you hear all the evidence and my instructions. So there's no evidence anyone read it.
Speaker 21 (05:04:42):
Okay.
Brian Steel (05:04:43):
If the court wants to ask that question, if there was a transcript in the jury room, did anyone discuss it or read it? That's fine. But this whole thing is, I think, nothing. Potentially nothing.
Speaker 21 (05:04:58):
All right. I'll just have you collect them if they're still back there, Diane, and let's just not even leave them by the jury box. Let's get them and you can give them to me and I will disallow the further use of transcripts. You want to bring them back?
Diane (05:05:19):
And I know there were three, right? There should have been three?
Speaker 20 (05:05:23):
Yes, sir. Yes.
Diane (05:05:24):
Okay. This was evidently the first one, right?
Speaker 20 (05:05:28):
There was a 911 transcript. I don't know if you have that one or not. That's from 12/22/19.
Diane (05:05:34):
This is-
Speaker 20 (05:05:34):
That's this one. 911 is this one.
Diane (05:05:35):
Okay.
Speaker 20 (05:05:35):
And then there was a-
Diane (05:05:35):
That's the ones that were back.
(05:05:35)
Okay.
Speaker 20 (05:05:41):
So the 911, for the record, the 911 transcripts were back there, not the December 30th.
Diane (05:05:47):
Is this the December?
Speaker 20 (05:05:49):
Yes, ma'am.
Diane (05:05:54):
Okay.
Speaker 20 (05:05:54):
And-
Diane (05:05:54):
That was, they've been here.
Speaker 20 (05:05:54):
Right. There's just [inaudible 05:05:55] the 911 one was back there. I don't see how there's any ...
Speaker 21 (05:06:02):
Anything back there needs to be collected?
Diane (05:06:04):
No, everything's out here.
Speaker 21 (05:06:06):
Everything's out here now?
Diane (05:06:06):
Yes.
Speaker 21 (05:06:06):
Okay.
Diane (05:06:07):
Yes.
Speaker 20 (05:06:07):
Well, I don't think we need these at all anymore. Can I just move them and put them over behind the near bar?
Speaker 21 (05:06:12):
Why don't you hand them to me?
Speaker 20 (05:06:13):
Yes, sir. May I approach?
Speaker 21 (05:06:15):
Yes, sir. Okay. We need the jury.
Speaker 20 (05:06:17):
No objection. Thank you.
Speaker 21 (05:07:20):
All right. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. We're going to need a witness.
Speaker 20 (05:07:24):
Yes, Your Honor. He's on the way.
Speaker 21 (05:07:45):
Okay. Welcome back, sir. You're still under oath, okay?
Speaker 22 (05:07:50):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 20 (05:07:50):
May it please the court, Your Honor?
Speaker 21 (05:07:50):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 20 (05:07:50):
Thank you. You can have a seat, sir. Do you remember before the lunch break, sir, that I was kind of here in this area?
Speaker 22 (05:07:59):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 20 (05:08:00):
Yeah. Can you see me as well here?
Speaker 22 (05:08:01):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 20 (05:08:02):
And I was showing you some text messages between the decedent and this defendant. Remember that?
Speaker 22 (05:08:07):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 20 (05:08:09):
Did you have an opportunity from where you're at? I know your monitor's there and the edge of the judge's bar bench is right there, but did you see when the defendant was laughing during the presentation of those text messages?
Speaker 22 (05:08:21):
I saw her place her head down. I did not see her laugh.
Speaker 20 (05:08:24):
Did you, from where you were, did you hear Mr. [inaudible 05:08:27] say, "Shh, shh, shh," to her to stop her from laughing during the presentation of the text messages?
Speaker 22 (05:08:32):
There was some discussion between them, but I couldn't make out what was being said.
Speaker 20 (05:08:36):
All right. Show opposing counsel what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 186, please. May I approach the witness, please?
Speaker 21 (05:09:16):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 20 (05:09:18):
Thank you. Sir, let me approach you, sir, please, and show you what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 186 and ask you if you recognize that.
Speaker 22 (05:09:26):
I do.
Speaker 20 (05:09:27):
Can you tell not to describe it or anything, but just briefly, what is that?
Speaker 22 (05:09:30):
It's a diagram of the downstairs basement room.
Speaker 20 (05:09:35):
All right. How do you recognize it, sir?
Speaker 22 (05:09:37):
I requested it from our crime scene when we went back and did a search warrant in March.
Speaker 20 (05:09:42):
Okay. And does it fairly and accurately depict the diagram you've seen used in this case up to this point?
Speaker 22 (05:09:48):
Yes.
Speaker 20 (05:09:49):
Other than possibly it being a photocopy, have there been any changes, alterations, material deletions that have been made to that State's 186 that make it different than your diagram you used?
Speaker 22 (05:09:59):
No.
Speaker 20 (05:10:02):
Respectfully, move the court to admit into evidence what's been previously marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 186.
Speaker 21 (05:10:08):
Any objection?
Brian Steel (05:10:09):
No, Your Honor.
Speaker 20 (05:10:10):
Submitted.
Speaker 21 (05:10:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 20 (05:10:11):
Permission to publish, Your Honor.
Speaker 21 (05:10:11):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 20 (05:10:13):
So when you came on the investigation as the lead detective, were you working off any kind of measured out diagram or any kind of overview or picture of the layout of the room at all? Was there such a thing?
Speaker 22 (05:10:30):
No. All I had were the crime scene photos that were taken the original night.
Speaker 20 (05:10:34):
Did you ever at any point ask that a diagram indicating where things were, kind of like an architectural rendering or a layout of the area be made?
Speaker 22 (05:10:44):
I did.
Speaker 20 (05:10:45):
And why has that helped you, sir?
Speaker 22 (05:10:47):
It gave me a perspective of what I was looking at in some of the pictures.
Speaker 20 (05:10:53):
Okay. Let me show you State's 186, please. And just a moment, Your Honor. I lost my tech assistant. May I publish to the jury now?
Speaker 21 (05:11:28):
You may.
Speaker 20 (05:11:28):
My tech man has left me high and dry, so let me ask you just some questions after I publish to the jury. This is an accurate layout of 83 Braemill Court, the house?
Speaker 22 (05:12:00):
Yes.
Speaker 20 (05:12:02):
Okay. Do you see where it says, "Hallway," right here?
Speaker 22 (05:12:12):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 20 (05:12:13):
So would that have been the main entrance way to the playroom?
Speaker 22 (05:12:17):
Yes.
Speaker 20 (05:12:18):
Okay. And then if you'll hold up the drawing, sir, and show the jury where the decedent was upon in relation to that hallway.
Speaker 22 (05:12:25):
He was just inside the doorway right here.
Speaker 20 (05:12:28):
Okay. All right, sir. Did you have an opportunity, sir, to execute a search warrant at the location 83 Braemill Court at all at any time regarding your investigation in this case?
Speaker 22 (05:12:52):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 20 (05:12:53):
Do you remember the date?
Speaker 22 (05:12:54):
I don't remember the exact date, but it was in the first couple weeks of March.
Speaker 20 (05:12:58):
Do you remember it being possibly March 5th?
Speaker 22 (05:12:59):
Yes.
Speaker 20 (05:13:00):
Okay. Tell the jury why you sought a search warrant to search the home at that point in March so many days, a hundred days after the death of Mr. Akers.
Speaker 22 (05:13:14):
In the statement that Ms. Boles wrote, she indicated a camo holster and that her hands were bloody and she touched that holster and put it back in the safe. My search warrant was to go back into the residence and collect that camo case or holster and to collect the safe and to also photograph and diagram the residence as it stood at that point.
Speaker 20 (05:13:42):
Okay. Did you go out to try to execute the search warrant then on about March 5th?
Speaker 22 (05:13:52):
I did.
Speaker 20 (05:13:53):
Who went with you, sir?
Speaker 22 (05:13:55):
Several of our other detectives, including Detective Dixon, some warrant uniform division guys for a uniform presence and Detective, I believe she went by [inaudible 05:14:08] at that point, but now is Detective Wix.
Speaker 20 (05:14:13):
So if you walk the jury through your process of when you get to the scene and first of all, what time was it?
Speaker 22 (05:14:22):
I don't remember-
Speaker 20 (05:14:22):
Maybe about an hour. It's not-
Speaker 22 (05:14:22):
It was daylight. It was in the morning time. I don't remember the exact time, but it was, I would say between 9:00 and 10:00 in the morning, just giving a rough estimate. Myself and a couple uniform deputies, and then Detective Dixon went to the front door and I knocked on the front door and made contact with Ms. Boles. I explained to her that I had a search warrant for the residence.
Speaker 20 (05:14:43):
All right, sir. And did you commence the search then?
Speaker 22 (05:14:51):
Yes.
Speaker 20 (05:14:52):
Did you concentrate your search on any specific part of the home?
Speaker 22 (05:14:55):
So I actually, we wanted to bring Ms. Boles or I wanted to bring Ms. Boles back for an interview because I wanted to go over her statement.
Nicholas Hardy (05:15:00):
I wanted to bring Ms. Boles back for an interview because I wanted to go over her statement. So I requested that Ms. Boles ride back to the sheriff's office with me and Detective Wiecks and that we would conduct an interview. Ms. Boles agreed to leave and then I turned the search warrant over to Detective Dixon.
(05:15:17)
Again, the primary focus of the search warrant was the diagram photograph and look for any receipts from Mr. Akers also and to collect the safe and the holster.
Mr. Treadaway (05:15:43):
May I approach opposing counsel and show what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 187, 188? Thank you. May I approach the witness please?
(05:16:10)
Sir, let me show you what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 187, 188, have you look at that.
Nicholas Hardy (05:16:15):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:16:16):
You recognize what's in 187 and 188?
Nicholas Hardy (05:16:19):
Yes, sir. 187 is the safe with a set of keys that have unlocked the safe. And then 188 is the safe unlocked. And if you look at the very bottom of it-
Mr. Treadaway (05:16:34):
Don't give too much detail. Just how do you recognize it?
Nicholas Hardy (05:16:37):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:16:37):
How do you recognize this?
Nicholas Hardy (05:16:38):
I recognize those pictures.
Mr. Treadaway (05:16:39):
Okay.
Nicholas Hardy (05:16:39):
How? They were the ones taken and provided to me by other detectives.
Mr. Treadaway (05:16:44):
Okay. Did you ever see the actual safe itself, the physical safe?
Nicholas Hardy (05:16:47):
I did.
Mr. Treadaway (05:16:48):
Does that... Do those pictures, 187, 188, fairly and accurately depict what was provided to you as collected during the search warrant execution?
Nicholas Hardy (05:16:57):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:16:58):
Any changes or alterations that are made to the pictures of the safe that make them not representative of the safe, an actual physical safe as you've seen it?
Nicholas Hardy (05:17:05):
No. No, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:17:07):
Respectfully move the court to admit into evidence what's been previously marked for identification purposes only as State's 187 and 188.
The Court (05:17:14):
Any objection?
Mr. Steel (05:17:15):
No. No, Your Honor.
Mr. Treadaway (05:17:19):
Permission to publish?
The Court (05:17:20):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:17:20):
Thank you. Published. May I approach the jury rail?
The Court (05:17:25):
You may.
Mr. Treadaway (05:17:26):
Publishing to the jury 187. And I'll just publish it 188. Do you know where the safe was located or found and discovered?
Nicholas Hardy (05:17:53):
Yes. Ms. Boles actually took me and showed me where the safe was. It was in their bedroom, in their closet.
Mr. Treadaway (05:17:59):
Their being?
Nicholas Hardy (05:18:01):
Mr. Akers' and her bedroom.
Mr. Treadaway (05:18:03):
All right, sir. May I have just a moment please?
The Court (05:18:09):
Of course.
Mr. Treadaway (05:18:09):
To your knowledge, during the execution of the search warrant, was there anything located inside the safe, sir?
Nicholas Hardy (05:18:27):
Yes. The camo gun case and a white press-on finger fake nail.
Mr. Treadaway (05:18:34):
May I please approach opposing counsel and show what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's 189 and 190, please?
Mr. Steel (05:19:19):
Can I ask you a question?
Mr. Treadaway (05:19:20):
Yes, sir. Thank you. May I approach the witness, Your Honor?
The Court (05:19:36):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:19:36):
Thank you. Sir, let me show you what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 189 and 190. Just briefly look at those and just tell me what they are as generally as you can, sir.
Nicholas Hardy (05:19:49):
They're just pictures of the inside of the safe that contain the content... This holster and I guess a glass jar.
Mr. Treadaway (05:19:57):
Are those fair and accurate depictions of what was contained inside the safe, sir, as far as you know it to be?
Nicholas Hardy (05:20:02):
They are.
Mr. Treadaway (05:20:05):
Appear to be any changes or misrepresentations. Have you had opportunity to look at the items recovered from the safe after it was recovered, after those items were removed from the safe?
Nicholas Hardy (05:20:12):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:20:13):
Do those photos, State's 189 and 190, do they accurately and fairly depict those items?
Nicholas Hardy (05:20:18):
They do.
Mr. Treadaway (05:20:19):
Any changes that have been made to the items inside the safe that make 189 or 190 not representative of the items recovered?
Nicholas Hardy (05:20:27):
No, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:20:28):
Respectfully, move the court to admit into evidence what have been previously marked as State's Exhibit 189 and 190?
Mr. Steel (05:20:35):
No opposition, Your Honor.
The Court (05:20:36):
Those are admitted.
Mr. Treadaway (05:20:37):
Permission published by the jury-
The Court (05:20:39):
Sure.
Mr. Treadaway (05:20:39):
Thank you. 189 and 190. You say these are the contents of the safe?
Nicholas Hardy (05:20:39):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:21:01):
The gun holster found in the safe, was it consistent with what this defendant described in her statement?
Nicholas Hardy (05:21:07):
Yes. She described it as a camo in color case or gun holster.
Mr. Treadaway (05:21:31):
Did you have an opportunity to observe the holster once it was removed from the safe, sir?
Nicholas Hardy (05:21:37):
At a different time, yes, I did.
Mr. Treadaway (05:21:39):
Okay. Can you describe it for the jury?
Nicholas Hardy (05:21:41):
It's just a nylon holster. It's a very, I think like an Uncle Mike's, if I remember the name brand.
Mr. Treadaway (05:21:50):
Okay. Did it have a belt loop on the holster?
Nicholas Hardy (05:21:54):
I can't recall. I'm sure... I can't recall for sure, but normally it would.
Mr. Treadaway (05:21:58):
Okay. You can't recall?
Nicholas Hardy (05:22:00):
Yes, I can't recall.
Mr. Treadaway (05:22:05):
You said you were also searching for some receipts. Do you remember saying that?
Nicholas Hardy (05:22:10):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:22:12):
Did you find any receipts?
Nicholas Hardy (05:22:14):
There were several receipts photographed.
Mr. Treadaway (05:22:20):
And when I say you, I mean you and your team.
Nicholas Hardy (05:22:21):
Yes, the team, yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:22:22):
The team gone back to the station, but I'm assuming that the people that are on scene find receipts or find a holster or find the safe, do they then forward that information on you?
Nicholas Hardy (05:22:31):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:22:32):
And then did you have an opportunity to physically examine and observe those items that they found?
Nicholas Hardy (05:22:36):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:22:36):
Why was a receipt or receipts important for you to try to look for?
Nicholas Hardy (05:22:40):
I was looking for a McDonald's receipt.
Mr. Treadaway (05:22:43):
Okay. Why?
Nicholas Hardy (05:22:45):
Based on the fact that Mr. Akers, it was believed that he had just purchased some McDonald's prior to coming home.
Mr. Treadaway (05:22:52):
Okay. Do you know if anybody went back yourself or anybody connected with the investigation went back to that McDonald's or any McDonald's in the area and tried to find evidence of Mr. Akers having having that he was there?
Nicholas Hardy (05:23:08):
Yes, sir. Detective Dixon and Detective Raybon actually assisted with that. I believe Detective Dixon is the one that went-
Mr. Steel (05:23:15):
Excuse me. Excuse me. Sorry. Confrontation clause. Objection.
Mr. Treadaway (05:23:21):
I guess that's a hearsay objection? I asked him does he have knowledge that anybody went to that location and tried to find those items of proof that that man had been there. That doesn't even elicit a statement. So with such a general objection, confrontation clause, I don't exactly know what he's speaking of. I'm guessing it's hearsay.
Mr. Steel (05:23:44):
Confrontation clause. He learned it from somebody else during the course of an investigation to use in a criminal case for litigation. That's my objection. I can't confront that witness.
The Court (05:23:52):
All right. Can you repeat the question?
Mr. Treadaway (05:23:55):
Did you or anybody connect with the investigation go to McDonald's in the surrounding area near 83 Braemill Court to determine if this gentleman had been there and when?
Nicholas Hardy (05:24:04):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:24:04):
Hold on a second. Don't answer.
Nicholas Hardy (05:24:06):
Okay.
The Court (05:24:07):
Well, I think what's important here, I don't want to get too involved with this, but answer from your own personal knowledge.
Nicholas Hardy (05:24:15):
It is my personal knowledge.
Mr. Treadaway (05:24:16):
Okay.
Nicholas Hardy (05:24:18):
Yes. I sent a detective there.
Mr. Treadaway (05:24:20):
Okay. Was that receipt ever located or any evidence that Mr. Akers had been at any location there?
Nicholas Hardy (05:24:27):
No.
Mr. Treadaway (05:24:29):
Okay. Were you able to... Was your team able to find receipts at the scene, 83 Braemill Court, during the March 5th execution of the search warrant?
Nicholas Hardy (05:24:37):
They found several receipts, but not one from McDonald's.
Mr. Treadaway (05:24:39):
Were those receipts brought back to you at your office or a precinct or station for you to review as part of your continued investigation?
Nicholas Hardy (05:24:47):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:24:49):
Did you have an opportunity to physically review them?
Nicholas Hardy (05:24:51):
I did.
Mr. Treadaway (05:25:02):
Show opposing counsel please what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 191, 192, 193. May I approach the witness, please?
The Court (05:25:29):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:25:33):
Sir, let me show you what's been marked for identification purposes on State's Exhibit 191, 92, 93, have you look at those briefly. Have you had a chance to look at those?
Nicholas Hardy (05:25:58):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:25:58):
Do you recognize the objects depicted in State's 191, 92, 93?
Nicholas Hardy (05:26:02):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:26:03):
Do you know what they are generally?
Nicholas Hardy (05:26:05):
They are the receipts.
Mr. Treadaway (05:26:07):
Okay. Do they fairly... State's 191, 92, 93, do they fairly depict receipts that you later saw them to be as having been recovered during the March 5th search warrant execution?
Nicholas Hardy (05:26:17):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:26:17):
If you'll look at the individual receipts depicted in the State's Exhibits, have they been changed, altered, or in any way deformed to not represent accurately receipts or covered?
Nicholas Hardy (05:26:29):
No.
Mr. Treadaway (05:26:30):
Respectfully move the court to admit into evidence what's been marked previously for identification purposes only as state's 191, 92, 93?
Mr. Steel (05:26:38):
No opposition, Your Honor.
Mr. Treadaway (05:26:39):
Then permission to publish?
The Court (05:26:57):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:27:03):
If you can show the jury, please, or tell the jury what's contained or depicted in State's Exhibit 192. May I approach the jury box?
The Court (05:27:33):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:27:36):
So let me draw your attention to 192. Do you recognize that?
Nicholas Hardy (05:27:41):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:27:41):
What's depicted in 192?
Nicholas Hardy (05:27:43):
It's a bag that has... You can see some receipts in the top of the bag and it's... The bag's in a box. It's like an overview.
Mr. Treadaway (05:27:51):
Sorry?
Nicholas Hardy (05:27:52):
It's like an overview picture.
Mr. Treadaway (05:27:53):
Permission to approach the jury, Your Honor, for identification? Do you know where this bag was found?
Nicholas Hardy (05:27:59):
I don't recall, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:28:00):
Okay. At home?
Nicholas Hardy (05:28:02):
It's at the home. Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:28:04):
This is a back full of receipts?
Nicholas Hardy (05:28:05):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:28:08):
Did you have an opportunity to review the receipts that were found in there?
Nicholas Hardy (05:28:10):
I did.
Mr. Treadaway (05:28:11):
But no McDonald's receipt?
Nicholas Hardy (05:28:12):
No.
Mr. Treadaway (05:28:14):
Okay. Do you know what kind of receipts were in there?
Nicholas Hardy (05:28:16):
There was a Home Depot receipt, a Tractor Supply receipt, I want to say a racetrack receipt, and then some ATM withdrawals.
Mr. Treadaway (05:28:28):
ATM withdrawal slips, like ATM slips?
Nicholas Hardy (05:28:30):
Yes sir. I'm sorry. ATM slips.
Mr. Treadaway (05:28:35):
Do you remember at all the Home Depot receipt showing purchase of a house key?
Nicholas Hardy (05:28:41):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:28:44):
Do you remember at all the Tractor Supply receipt?
Nicholas Hardy (05:28:49):
I don't recall what was on that receipt, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:28:51):
Okay. But do you remember that receipt?
Nicholas Hardy (05:28:53):
I do remember, yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:28:54):
Just don't know what was on it?
Nicholas Hardy (05:28:55):
No, sir. I can't recall.
Mr. Treadaway (05:28:57):
All right. Let me show you what's been marked for identification purposes only State's Exhibit 190... I'm sorry, let me please show opposing counsel what's been marked for identification purposes only State's 194, please? Thank you.
(05:29:32)
May I approach the witness, please? Sir, let me show you what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 194. See if you recognize that.
Nicholas Hardy (05:29:41):
Yes, that's the Tractor Supply receipt.
Mr. Treadaway (05:29:43):
How do you recognize it?
Nicholas Hardy (05:29:44):
It was the one recovered. It says Tractor Supply on it and it's more of a zoomed in shot from the other... Or zoomed in photograph from the other ones.
Mr. Treadaway (05:29:53):
Does it... Is that a receipt, sir, that you... The Tractor Supply receipt, is that a receipt you were able to actually physically look at and examine as part of the investigation after the search warrant execution was completed?
Nicholas Hardy (05:30:03):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:30:04):
And looking at State's 194, does it accurately and fairly depict the actual receipt that you looked at as part of your investigation of the case?
Nicholas Hardy (05:30:13):
It does.
Mr. Treadaway (05:30:14):
Anything about 194 that has been materially altered, somehow changed or misrepresents what you saw in physical person of the receipt?
Nicholas Hardy (05:30:20):
No.
Mr. Treadaway (05:30:20):
Do you think it accurately and fairly depicts the receipt as you saw it?
Nicholas Hardy (05:30:24):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:30:25):
Respectfully move the court to admit into evidence what's been marked for identification purposes only State's Exhibit 194.
The Court (05:30:30):
Objection?
Mr. Steel (05:30:35):
No opposition, Your Honor.
The Court (05:30:37):
Admitted.
Mr. Treadaway (05:30:39):
Permission to publish?
The Court (05:30:40):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:30:41):
Thank you. Now we're back. So let me show you this, Detective Hardy. And remember you said that you didn't remember what was [inaudible 05:31:37]. Should settle in here.
(05:31:36)
You say you didn't remember what the Tractor Supply receipt was. Let me see if it refreshes your recollection just to look and see what was on the receipt.
Nicholas Hardy (05:31:43):
Yes, I do.
Mr. Treadaway (05:31:43):
You saw it?
Nicholas Hardy (05:31:44):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:31:44):
What was it for?
Nicholas Hardy (05:31:45):
It's for the purchase of the pig.
Mr. Treadaway (05:31:46):
And it's got pig or it says 25 pounds?
Nicholas Hardy (05:31:49):
Yeah, I believe that's going to be the pig food or [inaudible 05:31:53] pig.
Mr. Treadaway (05:31:53):
And then does this show where... You see on the... You see on the bottom of State's Exhibit 194 where it says somebody got a refund for the pig food?
Nicholas Hardy (05:32:06):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:32:07):
Okay. Thank you. Let me approach opposing counsel to show what has been marked for identification purposes only State's Exhibit 195.
Mr. Steel (05:32:59):
Thank you.
Mr. Treadaway (05:32:59):
You're welcome.
Mr. Steel (05:32:59):
Thank you.
Mr. Treadaway (05:32:59):
May I approach the witness, please?
The Court (05:33:00):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:33:01):
Thank you. Let me show you, sir, what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's 195 and see if you recognize that.
Nicholas Hardy (05:33:09):
I do, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:33:10):
What is that?
Nicholas Hardy (05:33:11):
It's a... The main focus of the picture is a transaction record. It looks like from a ATM.
Mr. Treadaway (05:33:18):
Don't describe it too much.
Nicholas Hardy (05:33:18):
I'm sorry.
Mr. Treadaway (05:33:20):
More receipts and paper?
Nicholas Hardy (05:33:21):
More receipts and paper.
Mr. Treadaway (05:33:22):
Is that... In State's 195, have you had an opportunity to review the actual physical papers after the execution of the search warrant?
Nicholas Hardy (05:33:31):
I did.
Mr. Treadaway (05:33:31):
Does 195 accurately and fairly depict those items in real life as you saw them in the video?
Nicholas Hardy (05:33:35):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:33:36):
Excuse me. Any changes or material alterations been made to 195 that make those little papers somehow not representative of what you saw immediately after the search warrant execution?
Nicholas Hardy (05:33:53):
No.
Mr. Treadaway (05:37:21):
Respectfully move the court to admit into evidence what's been previously marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 195.
Mr. Steel (05:37:27):
No objection, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:37:27):
Okay. Permission to publish, Your Honor?
The Court (05:37:30):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:37:30):
I want to show you specifically, sir, a picture here, something here. Get it out of this glare a little bit. Do you see a receipt here?
Nicholas Hardy (05:37:30):
Yes, sir. It looks like a paper receipt.
Mr. Treadaway (05:37:31):
A little blurry. It's a little out of focus. Okay. There you go. Can you see that?
Nicholas Hardy (05:37:37):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:37:37):
Whose name is on it?
Nicholas Hardy (05:37:37):
It says Daniel Akers.
Mr. Treadaway (05:37:37):
When it says received from, whose name is on it?
Nicholas Hardy (05:37:37):
Daniel Akers.
Mr. Treadaway (05:37:37):
And how much is the receipt amount for?
Nicholas Hardy (05:37:37):
$20.
Mr. Treadaway (05:37:42):
And you see what the date is on this receipt?
Nicholas Hardy (05:37:42):
12/20/2019.
Mr. Treadaway (05:37:42):
So in that general pile of receipts, is that where this was found?
Nicholas Hardy (05:38:00):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:38:00):
Does this look to you possibly like Mr. Akers paid someone $20?
Nicholas Hardy (05:38:02):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:38:02):
And this is a receipt. Is that what it looks like?
Nicholas Hardy (05:38:02):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:38:02):
On really the day before he died, I know he was in the early morning hours of 12/22, but this is from 12/20. Is that what you see?
Nicholas Hardy (05:38:21):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:38:25):
Let me show you... Please may I approach opposing counsel and show what's been marked for identification purposes only State's 196? May I approach the witness? Thank you. Let me show you, sir, what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's 196 and see if you remember that.
Nicholas Hardy (05:46:36):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:46:37):
What is that just briefly, sir?
Nicholas Hardy (05:46:40):
It's a TitleMax promise to pay agreement. It's for Daniel Akers.
Mr. Treadaway (05:46:42):
Okay. How do you recognize that?
Nicholas Hardy (05:46:48):
It was, I believe, found in that paperwork.
Mr. Treadaway (05:46:53):
Those receipts?
Nicholas Hardy (05:46:53):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:46:54):
Did you have an opportunity to review that also in real life physically after the execution of the search warrant?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:02):
I did.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:04):
Does State's Exhibit 196 fairly and accurately depict the item that you reviewed in person?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:07):
It does.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:15):
Does it fairly and accurately depicted to the point where no alterations or deletions have been made making it not accurate?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:17):
It does.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:26):
Respectfully, move the court to admit into evidence what's been previously marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 196?
Mr. Steel (05:47:31):
Your Honor, no opposition.
The Court (05:47:31):
All right. Thank you. Admitted.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:31):
May I publish that?
The Court (05:47:31):
You may.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:31):
Thank you. So this is some kind of a... What is this?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:31):
It's a TitleMax, a payment agreement.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:31):
May I approach the jury rail?
The Court (05:47:31):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:31):
Thank you. Some kind of TitleMax receipt was in that bag?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:31):
I believe it was in the bag. I'm not 100% sure.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:31):
Was it in the house?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:31):
It was in the house.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:31):
It's got a name on it?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:31):
It's got Mr. Akers' name on it.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:32):
Do you know the date on it? I'll show it to you.
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yeah, I can't remember.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
No problem. Does it look like somebody did a title on it, or something on their car?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Let me show you on your screen or the big screen, if you see the date on it. See that?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
What's the date on it?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
The date typed is 11/13, but it looks like it was signed by the manager at 11... On 11/7/2019.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Okay. Does it look like to you, sir, that... Did you find anything out about a TitleMax transaction as part of your investigation other than this?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Other than that, no.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Does it look like Mr. Akers agreed to get a title bond?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
That's what I believe.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Did you have an opportunity to interview this defendant? You said during the execution of the search warrant, you had asked this defendant to come back to the station to see if she would give you another interview, or an interview, is that right?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Did she do that?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yes. She agreed to come back to the office with me.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Who took her? How'd she get there?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
She originally was going to try and drive herself, but I asked that she would just ride with us and she agreed to that. She started to gather her things, including her car keys. I explained to her that she could just leave that stuff there and that we would bring her back to the office, and she agreed.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
When you were at the home, did you... You obviously encountered this defendant. Did you ask anything about the keys to a safe?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
I did. I asked her... When she took me to the safe, I asked her if the safe was locked and she made the statement that the safe was locked and she did not have a key to it.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Okay. If I can please approach opposing counsel and show what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 197? May I approach the witness, please?
The Court (05:47:33):
You may.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Let me show you, sir, what's been marked for identification purposes only. I keep it down here because the jury can't see it too much till it's in evidence if it does become in evidence. Do you recognize 197?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
I do, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
What is that?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
That is the safe.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
How do you recognize it?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
I remember it from the... When she took me to the residence, or when she took me to it in the bedroom.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Do you think that's actually the safe? Has anything been changed or made different about it? It's been painted or dented or anything?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
May I approach and see the evidence marker?
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Yes. If he may, Your Honor?
The Court (05:47:33):
Sure. Of course.
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Is that the actual safe that was collected from 83 Braemill Court on March 5th?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yes, it is.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Any reason to believe it's been changed, damaged, painted, anything to change it?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
No.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Respectfully, move the court to admit into evidence what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 197?
The Court (05:47:33):
Any objection?
Mr. Steel (05:47:33):
Can I just ask the prosecutor a question?
The Court (05:47:33):
Sure.
Mr. Steel (05:47:33):
No objection to the safe, Your Honor.
The Court (05:47:33):
Admitted.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Thank you. Permission to publish to the jury rail?
The Court (05:47:33):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
So is this the safe you found?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
And you came up and you looked at something on the safe. You said, "I want to see the evidence marker or tag." Is that what you said?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Why is that important?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Just to keep the chain of custody, knowing that it was the one, the same safe that was taken.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
And how do you know that?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Based on the... If I may stand.
The Court (05:47:33):
Sure.
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Based on the case number, the date, the time, and the evidence marker number.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Okay. Are those things all consistent with the safe that you processed?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
So this safe was where?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
That was in their... Or Mr. Akers' and Ms. Boles' bedroom in the closet.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
I'm sorry, sir.
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
In the closet.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
It has a little key tape to it. You see that?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
I do.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Okay. Does that key fit this safe?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
I believe so. Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Okay. Do you know where this key came from?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
It came from her keyring.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Whose?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Ms. Boles.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
All right. So you just mentioned that you asked Ms. Boles, just... You asked her if it was locked?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
I asked her if it was locked and if she had a key to the safe.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
And she said?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
She said she's never had access to the safe and she didn't have a key.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
But then you just said that that key on State's Exhibit 197 came from her keychain?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Did you find it there?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
I did not. Detective Dixon found it and I was notified of that.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Okay. Is this some old keychain that had been in the closet or...
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
It's the same keychain that she tried to place in her purse and take with her to the sheriff's office with me.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
She had that keychain in her hand or on her person-
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
She had it on her person-
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Hold on, let me just ask the question real quick.
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Sorry.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Ms. Goodrich has to write it down. So is this the same keychain that she had on her person anywhere when you asked her where's the key?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
She kept grabbing her keys and placing them in her purse. And I explained to her that she didn't need her purse, she didn't need anything. We would bring her back.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Well, let's just cut it right down to it. It looked like she's trying to hide the keys?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
It did.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
But was the safe ultimately open with that key on her keychain?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
It was.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
And then was the holster located therein?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
It was.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Did you have an opportunity, I think I may have asked you already, did you have an opportunity to review the holster, examine it, observe it after they wrapped up the search warrant at 83 Braemill Court on March 5th?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
I did, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
If I may show opposing counsel what I've marked for identification purposes only as State's 198, please? May I approach the witness please?
The Court (05:47:33):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
So let me show you what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's 198, I'll just have you look at that. Just look at the outside of it.
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Do you recognize that, State's 198?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
How do you recognize that?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
It's the bag, evidence bag. It's got the Paulding County Sheriff's case number on it and the item number. And it's also got a description of a nylon camo gun holster.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Did you have an opportunity to look at the camo gun holster both before and after it was ultimately placed in an evidence bag?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
I did.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Does it look like that evidence bag fairly and accurately depicts the vessel that ended up holding the gun case?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
The same gun case that we've seen that was located in the closet?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Any reason that you have, sir, to believe that this is not the gun case that was found in the closet?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
No.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Does it have your case number on it?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:33):
It does.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:33):
Respectfully, move the court to admit into evidence what's been previously marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 198?
Mr. Steel (05:47:33):
No opposition, Your Honor.
The Court (05:47:34):
Admitted.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:38):
So permission to publish to the jury rail?
The Court (05:47:41):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:43):
So sir, this is just the packaging for the case, is that correct?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:48):
Yes, sir. That's just the evidence bag.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:49):
Do you see a lot of other types of tape and color tapes, evidence tapes on the bag?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:55):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:47:57):
And why is that?
Nicholas Hardy (05:47:57):
It was opened, I believe by defense at one point.
Mr. Treadaway (05:48:04):
It could have been opened by many different people?
Nicholas Hardy (05:48:06):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:48:06):
Okay. If you'll take your gloves, sir, there before you. And if you'll open State's 198 [inaudible 05:48:17] exhibition, please, sir. I know it's extra small. Okay. If you'll remove the contents of 198. You recognize that?
Nicholas Hardy (05:49:01):
Yes, sir. This is the holster. It's the Uncle Mike's holster.
Mr. Treadaway (05:49:05):
Your Honor, if I may, unless the defense has an objection, mark the interior of 198 with a separate sticker 198A and move to tender that in contents of 198?
The Court (05:49:17):
Any objection?
Mr. Steel (05:49:18):
No, Your Honor.
The Court (05:49:18):
All right. It's admitted.
Mr. Treadaway (05:49:24):
Okay. So is this the safe that was found inside the holster of State's 197?
Nicholas Hardy (05:49:29):
Yes, that's the case.
Mr. Treadaway (05:49:30):
Permission to publish to the jury at the rail?
The Court (05:49:32):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:49:33):
Thank you.
Mr. Treadaway (05:50:14):
Let me show you 198 under the overhead projector, sir. You see underneath the exhibit sticker where there's a belt loop?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:50:23):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:50:25):
Or belt?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:50:26):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:50:26):
A loop on the holster, a loop on the holster for a belt. Do you see that?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:50:31):
I do, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:50:31):
See where the tip of my index finger and the blue is poking through that?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:50:36):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:50:37):
So in your experience, sir, do you have any experience with holsters like this before?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:50:42):
Yeah, I'm a firearms instructor, so I have a lot of experience with firearms and holsters.
Mr. Treadaway (05:50:49):
Tell the jury please, is this something that would be consistent, this little loop here with fitting this to a person's hip using perhaps a belt?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:50:57):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:51:00):
Do you remember looking at the crime scene photos in this case?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:51:03):
I do.
Mr. Treadaway (05:51:03):
Do you see Mr. Akers wearing a belt that would be consistent with carrying this on a step or anything like that?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:51:11):
No, he was wearing sweatpants.
Mr. Treadaway (05:51:48):
So you have seen the safe, the safe was open after you left, but you're now on the way to where to do this interview?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:51:59):
We went to the old Paulding County Sheriff's Office.
Mr. Treadaway (05:52:25):
May I please approach opposing counsel and show what's been marked for identification purposes on the State's Exhibit 140, I'm sorry, 199.
(05:52:29)
May I approach the witness?
The Court (05:53:14):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:53:15):
Let me show you this, sir. It's been marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 199. See if you recognize that.
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:53:22):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Treadaway (05:53:24):
What is that?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:53:24):
It's a flash drive or thumb drive.
Mr. Treadaway (05:53:30):
How do you recognize this, sir?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:53:33):
It's marked Investigator Hardy and it's got the March 5th date on it for an interview.
Mr. Treadaway (05:53:42):
Shortly before your testimony today, did we have an opportunity and yourself, Investigator Burke, have an opportunity, did you have an opportunity to go through what's marked as State's 199 and verify the accuracy of the material on it?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:53:54):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:53:56):
Did it appear to be accurate as to an interview that you may have conducted with this defendant on March 5th, 2020?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:54:02):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:54:03):
Watching the video, other than maybe court ordered redactions, things like that, but watching the video as a whole in general, does this appear to be accurate to the best of your ability from the totality of the March 5th interview?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:54:15):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:54:16):
Any changes, deletions, misrepresentations or anything made that make this video contained on State's 199 somehow not accurate?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:54:24):
No.
Mr. Treadaway (05:54:28):
Permission to respectfully move the Court to admit into evidence what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's 199.
Mr. Steel (05:56:10):
Same objection.
The Court (05:56:10):
Same objection. Okay, it's admitted over objection. Did you tell me this tape is about an hour long?
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:10):
I have one more exhibit. If I can just hand you this paper real quick. It kind of goes with it, but this will be about 55 minutes or so.
The Court (05:56:10):
Okay.
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:10):
Yes, sir. But if the Court's inclined to take a quick break.
The Court (05:56:10):
I actually was just going to check in with the jury. I think we've only been going about an hour. I'm told that this video will take 50 something minutes. Does anyone want a break before it's played? Yes, we'll take-
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:10):
Can I just get this quick?
The Court (05:56:10):
Yes, you can.
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:10):
Try to see-
The Court (05:56:10):
We'll be taking a break in just a few minutes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:10):
Hang on just a minute. So can I approach opposing counsel and show what's been marked for identification purposes only State's 201, because we already have 200, Your Honor. May I approach the witness?
The Court (05:56:10):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:10):
Sir, let me show you, I think that's been admitted 199. Let me show you 200. Do you recognize that?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:56:10):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:10):
What is that?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:56:10):
It's the Paulding County Sheriff's Office rights and waiver or Miranda form.
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:10):
How do you recognize that?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:56:10):
It has my signature and my name on it, my handwriting, and it has Ms. Lacy Boles' signature and her name on it.
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:10):
Does it appear to fairly and accurately depict the rights form, waiver form, that you presented to this defendant on March 5th?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:56:10):
It does.
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:10):
Anything changed or altered or changed or added to that State's Exhibit 201 that make it not representative accurately of what you provided to the defendant on March 5th, 2020 prior to that interview?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:56:10):
No.
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:10):
Respectfully, move the Court to admit into evidence what's been previously marked for identification purposes only State's 201.
Mr. Steel (05:56:13):
Same objections.
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:14):
All right. It'll be admitted. All right. If you'll just give the jury an idea basically real quick about what is on State's 201 and why you did that.
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:56:24):
It's our standard Miranda rights form, reading her Miranda before I questioned her.
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:28):
And this jury might... I mean, everybody kind of knows Miranda, but is that a case that just says the defendant has these rights on this paper?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:56:37):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:39):
And it's called a Miranda form because that's where it comes from, 1969 decision. But did you advise Ms. Boles of all her rights regarding her right to remain silent, her right to have a lawyer, her right to stop questioning, everything like that?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:56:52):
I did.
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:52):
And after you did advise her of those rights, did she freely agree to give you an interview, sir?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:56:56):
Yes, and then she signed the form.
Mr. Treadaway (05:56:58):
Okay, sir. Did you promise her anything at all to get her to talk to you, sir?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:57:01):
No.
Mr. Treadaway (05:57:02):
Did you threaten her or coerce her in any way? Threaten her with violence or anything like that?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:57:08):
No.
Mr. Treadaway (05:57:08):
Okay. If she needed to use the restroom or step out, did you allow her to do that at any time?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:57:17):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (05:57:19):
If she needed a bottle of water or snack crackers, did you provide it to her?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (05:57:23):
Provided her coffee and water.
Mr. Treadaway (05:57:25):
Okay, sir. All right, Your Honor, at this time State move to publish State's 199. It's possibly a good time for a break. Thank you.
The Court (06:10:54):
All right. We'll take 10 minutes, okay?
(06:10:54)
Try to get Sean down here? All right. Want to try to put a hold on the... If you see them coming, we'll tell them to stop.
Speaker 24 (06:11:04):
All right.
The Court (06:11:04):
People's got...
Speaker 24 (06:11:05):
Got it. Thank you, sir. Excellent.
The Court (06:11:18):
We're back. We're back. Okay, juror.
(06:11:19)
Yep, hopefully that does fail us. Okay.
(06:11:23)
Okay, let's proceed.
Mr. Treadaway (06:12:39):
Your Honor, can we show State's Exhibit 199?
The Court (06:12:39):
Yes.
Mr. Treadaway (06:12:39):
[inaudible 06:13:22]?
The Court (06:13:23):
Sure.
Mr. Treadaway (06:13:32):
Just give the jury an idea of where this is, or this is a standard interview room at the old sheriff's office?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (06:13:37):
Yes. This is at the old sheriff's office. I believe this is interview room number one.
Mr. Treadaway (06:13:43):
Who's going to be present, if anybody's with you during the interview?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (06:13:47):
Detective Wittenhower, or Wix.
Mr. Treadaway (06:13:49):
Inside the room?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (06:13:50):
Inside the room.
Mr. Treadaway (06:13:51):
Is anybody watching from your investigatory team outside of the closed circuit monitor or anything?
Detective Nicholas Hardy (06:13:56):
Yes, they are.
Mr. Treadaway (06:13:57):
They are? Okay, thank you. If we can play it, thank you.
Video: Speaker 9 (06:14:00):
Hey, can I get you a bottle of water or anything while you wait? He said he'd be in with you in just a minute.
Video: Speaker 10 (06:14:00):
Here you go.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:14:00):
Thank you.
Video: Speaker 10 (06:14:00):
See if that's okay.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:14:00):
[inaudible 06:18:48].
Video: Speaker 11 (06:14:00):
Oh, I smell coffee.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:14:00):
I just [inaudible 06:19:38].
Video: Speaker 11 (06:14:00):
Did you?
Video: Lacy Boles (06:14:00):
Sorry.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:14:00):
You want some water now?
Video: Lacy Boles (06:14:00):
No.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:14:00):
It smells like some French vanilla in here.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:14:00):
[inaudible 06:19:47].
Video: Speaker 11 (06:14:00):
Lacy?
Video: Lacy Boles (06:14:00):
Yes.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:19:57):
First off, I know we've caught [inaudible 06:20:01] and we talked out there too, you kind of asked how I do things.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:20:08):
Yes.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:20:08):
I do things a certain way.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:20:08):
Okay.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:20:09):
Okay? Here's the training, here's an experience, using whatever you want to call it.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:20:17):
Okay.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:20:17):
And part of that is why you're in here.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:20:17):
Okay.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:20:17):
You wrote a statement, you've already kind of talked to Detective Ogden, and I understand that. And I truly appreciate you coming out here and you coming with us and talking and trying to get to the bottom of all this.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:20:27):
Right.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:20:30):
But again, I do things a certain way.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:20:32):
Okay.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:20:32):
You know what I mean?
Video: Lacy Boles (06:20:33):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:20:34):
And with that, I do want to go over some things with you.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:20:37):
Okay.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:20:38):
All right? And again, it's just my standard practice of whenever I talk to anybody, whenever I do anything, I always want to go over certain things before we start talking. Okay? It doesn't necessarily mean that things are going to go a certain way or they're going to go this way or that way. You understand.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:20:59):
Mm-hmm.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:20:59):
Okay.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:20:59):
I do.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:21:00):
You did graduate from South Cobb.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:21:04):
Yes.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:21:04):
Even though I graduated from Keacher.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:21:04):
Yeah.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:21:06):
But I know you and then you also went to college.
Video: Lacy Boles (06:21:08):
Yes.
Video: Speaker 11 (06:21:08):
And so you kind of understand what's going on a little bit, correct?
Video: Lacy Boles (06:21:11):
Yeah. I think.
Speaker 23 (06:21:11):
One second. It's delayed. I think it's the last one to stop is the sound.
(06:21:11)
Yeah, we might need IT. It's definitely the sound.
Mr. Treadaway (06:23:17):
So, Your Honor, if we could just put on the record just for the purposes of the record and clarify we played the video for about three or four minutes and it's now stopped and the volume. So we can possibly take a break and get the IT people down here. I think it's something we can do with the player and interference from the media.
The Court (06:23:35):
All right. We'll get somebody down here and we'll take [inaudible 06:23:57].
(06:23:56)
All right. I'm sure it'll take at least 10 minutes. If anybody needs to step out, we'll do recess.
Mr. Treadaway (06:24:33):
Thank you, Your Honor.
Judge (06:37:40):
We're going to try it again and we have Sean from our IT department with us in case we have another problem.
Mr. Treadway (06:37:45):
Looking at the record [inaudible 06:37:53] one.
Speaker 27 (06:37:45):
Yes sir.
Mr. Treadway (06:37:58):
... on State's exhibit 199. Thank you.
Speaker 27 (06:37:58):
Okay.
Speaker 25 (06:38:01):
I do things a certain way. You know what I mean?
Lacy Boles (06:38:05):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 25 (06:38:06):
And with that, I do want to go over some things with you.
Lacy Boles (06:38:08):
Okay.
Speaker 25 (06:38:08):
All right. And again, it's just my standard practice of whenever I talk to anybody, whenever I do anything, I always want to go over certain things before we start talking.
Lacy Boles (06:38:21):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 25 (06:38:21):
Okay? It doesn't necessarily mean that things are going to go a certain way or they're going to go this way or that way. You understand?
Lacy Boles (06:38:29):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 25 (06:38:29):
Okay.
Lacy Boles (06:38:29):
I do.
Speaker 25 (06:38:30):
You did graduate from South Cobb.
Lacy Boles (06:38:32):
Yes.
Speaker 25 (06:38:32):
Even though I graduated from McEachern.
Lacy Boles (06:38:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 25 (06:38:32):
But I know you, and then you also went to college.
Lacy Boles (06:38:38):
Yes.
Speaker 25 (06:38:39):
And so you kind of understand what's going on a little bit, correct?
Lacy Boles (06:38:42):
Yeah. I think.
Speaker 25 (06:38:45):
But I do want to ask you some questions.
Lacy Boles (06:38:45):
Okay.
Speaker 25 (06:38:48):
But before I get into all that questioning and talking to you and asking you specific questions, I do want to go over your rights. Okay?
Lacy Boles (06:38:55):
Okay.
Speaker 25 (06:38:56):
And that's standard from me.
Lacy Boles (06:38:56):
Okay.
Speaker 25 (06:38:59):
You do have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to talk to a lawyer and have a lawyer present with you while you're being questioned. If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, one will be appointed to represent you before any questioning, if you wish. You can decide at any time to exercise these rights and not answer any questions or make any statements. Do you understand each of these rights as I've explained them to you?
Lacy Boles (06:39:25):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 25 (06:39:27):
Having these rights in mind, do you wish to talk to us?
Lacy Boles (06:39:29):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 25 (06:39:33):
Okay. I appreciate that, Lacy. I'm just going to kind of fill some things out and I'm just going to get you to sign, okay? And it's L-A-C-Y, right?
Lacy Boles (06:39:40):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 25 (06:39:41):
And then B-O-
Lacy Boles (06:39:42):
L-E-S.
Speaker 25 (06:39:42):
... L-E-S.
Lacy Boles (06:39:43):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 25 (06:39:44):
What's your maiden name?
Lacy Boles (06:39:46):
Lee.
Speaker 25 (06:39:48):
Lee?
Lacy Boles (06:39:48):
Mm-hmm. Lacy Lee.
Speaker 25 (06:39:48):
Lacy Lee.
Lacy Boles (06:39:49):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 25 (06:39:51):
And...
Lacy Boles (06:39:53):
I'm so sorry. Can I turn that down.
Speaker 25 (06:39:53):
Yeah, if you want to turn that off, that's fine.
Lacy Boles (06:39:53):
Okay. Because my mom's probably calling.
Speaker 25 (06:39:53):
That's fine. She's a mother.
Lacy Boles (06:39:53):
She's a [inaudible 06:39:59]-
Speaker 25 (06:39:53):
I can understand.
Lacy Boles (06:39:59):
I'm sorry. At the moment she thinks that I'm going to fall off any minute, at any time.
Speaker 25 (06:40:21):
I completely understand. And it is 12:10, and we're in CID room number one. All right, Lacy, if you'll sign right there for me. Thank you. God, that coffee smells good.
(06:40:34)
It's warm in here. Is that where you keep all the good coffee.
Lacy Boles (06:40:35):
[inaudible 06:40:39].
Speaker 25 (06:40:40):
Mm. I love French vanilla.
Lacy Boles (06:40:41):
That's hazelnut.
Speaker 25 (06:40:42):
Oh, it's hazelnut? It smells like French vanilla to me.
Lacy Boles (06:40:44):
Yeah. Either one of those.
Speaker 25 (06:40:48):
All right, Lacy. We're kind of going to get into this and I know you've got things to do today. I want to get you out of here and go from here. I wasn't there. I didn't respond to the scene. So I've got to watch the interview that you have, and I got some things. I got some questions that I need to go over.
Lacy Boles (06:41:12):
Okay.
Speaker 25 (06:41:17):
And I know it's going to be hard, and I know you've already walked it through a couple times.
Lacy Boles (06:41:19):
Yes.
Speaker 25 (06:41:20):
Can you kind of walk me through that day?
Lacy Boles (06:41:21):
The whole day?
Speaker 25 (06:41:22):
As best you can.
Lacy Boles (06:41:23):
Okay. So it started off... Do you want me to just walk through the day?
Speaker 25 (06:41:28):
Yeah, that's fine.
Lacy Boles (06:41:28):
Can I start back?
Speaker 25 (06:41:28):
Let's go through the day.
Lacy Boles (06:41:32):
Okay, just the day.
Speaker 25 (06:41:33):
Yeah.
Lacy Boles (06:41:33):
So that morning he needed to leave, and he was going to go get tampons and toilet paper and paper towels, and I think [inaudible 06:41:43] about a box of Ritz crackers and stuff, and get a key made. Well, he left and took Gage with him. And when-
Speaker 25 (06:41:50):
Okay. And I'm going to pause you because I want some little bit of clarification.
Lacy Boles (06:41:54):
Okay.
Speaker 25 (06:41:54):
So Gage is who?
Lacy Boles (06:41:56):
My six-year-old son.
Speaker 25 (06:41:57):
Your six-year-old?
Lacy Boles (06:41:57):
Yes. And Dan had been acting a little off earlier that day and before.
Speaker 25 (06:42:05):
Now, when you describe off...
Lacy Boles (06:42:08):
Okay. So I didn't ever fully go into this because I'm only [inaudible 06:42:13]. So Dan had problems with drugs, and when he would get on drugs, he would think that people were video recording him or that I was doing something behind his back. He thought I had a reality TV show that I was getting gratuities from, if that makes sense. So the day before, he accused me of talking into a microphone on the back porch to my daughter, who's Skylar Boles, my oldest, she's 20, and her boyfriend. And I'm like, "Oh no."
Mr. Treadway (06:45:57):
Your Honor, if I can please just perfect the record that the video stopped at 11 minutes and 53 seconds on the timer with more audio issues. Thank you.
Judge (06:46:18):
Okay. We have IT rebooting the system.
Lacy Boles (06:46:18):
[inaudible 06:47:12].
Speaker 27 (06:46:18):
Can you take that [inaudible 06:47:16]?
Mr. Treadway (06:46:18):
Yeah, it was 11 minutes and 50 seconds.
Speaker 27 (06:46:18):
Okay. So 11:40 [inaudible 06:47:23].
Mr. Treadway (06:46:18):
11:40? Okay. Go back to 11:40.
Lacy Boles (06:47:31):
And I'm like, "Oh no, this can't be it." So that Friday, I had texted him and told him I'm going to stay at my mom's. I can't deal with this craziness again. I didn't want to go back to that perpetual cycle. But Saturday morning, he seemed a little better and... mom's. I can't deal with this craziness... He thought I had reality TV-
Speaker 27 (06:47:47):
[inaudible 06:47:55]
Judge (06:47:47):
Let's try again.
Mr. Treadway (06:47:47):
Started back at 11 minutes, 25 seconds.
Judge (06:48:03):
Where did you say we stopped, Mr. Treadway?
Mr. Treadway (06:48:06):
I may have been wrong. I think the survey will have more accurate input. If we can just resume it at 11 minutes and 25 seconds.
Judge (06:48:11):
Everybody's good with that?
Speaker 27 (06:48:12):
Yes, sir.
Judge (06:48:13):
All right. Thank you.
Lacy Boles (06:48:14):
...showed I was getting gratuities from, if that makes sense. So the day before, he accused me of talking into a microphone on the back porch to my daughter, who's Skylar Boles, my oldest, she's 20, and her boyfriend. And I'm like, " Oh no, this can't be it." So that Friday I had texted him and told him, "I'm going to stay at my mom's. I can't deal with this craziness again. I didn't want to go back to that perpetual cycle." But Saturday morning, he seemed a little better and he was going to do normal stuff. He was going to go get a key made and go get the tampons and toilet paper and paper towels and Ritz crackers, and I can't remember what else. But he took Gage with him. Well, then he texts me and he's at Tractor Supply, which does not make a key.
Speaker 25 (06:48:56):
So I'm going to stop you here for a second.
Lacy Boles (06:48:57):
Okay.
Speaker 25 (06:48:58):
When you say this perpetual thing, just the paranoia?
Lacy Boles (06:49:03):
Yes.
Speaker 25 (06:49:03):
Okay.
Lacy Boles (06:49:04):
Yes.
Speaker 25 (06:49:05):
Were you guys ever fighting or anything about this?
Lacy Boles (06:49:09):
About him being paranoid?
Speaker 25 (06:49:10):
Or just anything?
Lacy Boles (06:49:11):
Yes.
Speaker 25 (06:49:12):
Did you guys have-
Lacy Boles (06:49:12):
Oh, yeah. I was... Well, okay. So things were great even up until the weekend before really. So when I started hearing the microphones and that stuff again, I'm like, "Oh no, no, no, no, no. This Titanic has been turned on. I'm not going back there. That's crazy. I'm leaving you. I'm going to go stay at my mom's. I can't do this. No, I'm not going to go to your mom's. I'm not going to go anywhere."
Speaker 25 (06:49:38):
Have you left him before and gone and stayed at your mom's?
Lacy Boles (06:49:40):
Yes. Yes. Several times.
Speaker 25 (06:49:42):
Has it always just been verbal?
Lacy Boles (06:49:45):
Yes. As far as like-
Speaker 25 (06:49:47):
Arguments?
Lacy Boles (06:49:49):
Yes. Yes. He's never gotten physical with me.
Speaker 25 (06:49:50):
So he's never gotten physical?
Lacy Boles (06:49:52):
No. No.
Speaker 25 (06:49:52):
Never hurt you?
Lacy Boles (06:49:53):
No. I mean, like verbally.
Speaker 25 (06:49:54):
Verbally.
Lacy Boles (06:49:55):
If I said to you, let's just say if you're him, I'm like, "Hey, you know what? You're high. I'm not doing it." He'd be like, "No, you're high. You need to get clean. You need to get your life together." And then it would turn into, the whole house would be chaos, because the babies would see us fighting, everything that we built would come crashing down, and that's just what it was. I didn't want to go back there.
Speaker 25 (06:50:19):
So he would use meth?
Lacy Boles (06:50:21):
Yes. I've ever seen, experienced in my life is the devil himself. It would make him think crazy...
Speaker 25 (06:50:28):
Really?
Lacy Boles (06:50:28):
Crazy.
Speaker 25 (06:50:28):
Relax. Relax, okay. But during even these times when he would use meth-
Lacy Boles (06:50:35):
I would leave.
Speaker 25 (06:50:35):
You would leave?
Lacy Boles (06:50:36):
I would leave with the babies.
Speaker 25 (06:50:37):
But he would never hit you?
Lacy Boles (06:50:40):
No.
Speaker 25 (06:50:40):
He was never violent with you?
Lacy Boles (06:50:41):
Never.
Speaker 25 (06:50:42):
Okay.
Lacy Boles (06:50:42):
Never.
Speaker 25 (06:50:43):
All right. So let's kind of go back to... We kind of went off on a little side road right there.
Lacy Boles (06:50:48):
Where the pig, right, where the Tractor Supply-
Speaker 25 (06:50:50):
So you went to Tractor Supply?
Lacy Boles (06:50:51):
No, he did.
Speaker 25 (06:50:51):
Oh, he did?
Lacy Boles (06:50:52):
He did. He's at Tractor Supply with Gage that morning.
Speaker 25 (06:50:54):
What timeframe is this about?
Lacy Boles (06:50:57):
Oh gosh. It was like, anywhere between 11:00 and 1:00 maybe, maybe more towards 12:00.
Speaker 25 (06:51:04):
I know it's been some time.
Lacy Boles (06:51:08):
Yeah. 12:00-ish to 1:00. I mean, but then he was gone for three hours during that.
Speaker 25 (06:51:13):
So during that whole time, he was gone for a while.
Lacy Boles (06:51:15):
To get a key made and to get tampons and toilet paper and paper towels and some Ritz crackers. So I'm like-
Speaker 25 (06:51:23):
Was there anything else he was going to get for you?
Lacy Boles (06:51:26):
I think maybe hair color.
Speaker 25 (06:51:26):
Okay.
Lacy Boles (06:51:27):
I think hair color. That was it. But now he called me from Tractor Supply. Why he was at Tractor Supply, I have no idea. And you can't get a key made there and you can't buy anything else there. Then he starts telling me about a pig that he's getting. Well, in my mind, I'm like, "Okay, we're really off at this point. We don't have money. We didn't have money for Christmas, and you're talking about getting a pig." I'm like, "Okay, get the pig." But then we start arguing about the pig. But then he's like... I can't remember if he got the pig or didn't get the pig. It was kind of like, "Are you getting the key made, and when are you coming home?" Well, after about two hours had passed, I'm like, "Two hours have gone by. Where are you and what are you doing? What is going on here? I'm having my son with you. It's time to come back."
(06:52:13)
So he did finally come back, I think it was around 3:00-ish. I'm going to say 3:00, 3:30. And Gage went straight up to his room, got on the top bunk. I was like, "Gage, is everything okay? Is everything, you know, whatever?" And then Dan was outside, or he brought the stuff in that he had gotten to get a key made, and he was out at his trunk.
Speaker 25 (06:52:34):
Did he use the hair dye?
Lacy Boles (06:52:35):
He did.
Speaker 25 (06:52:35):
Okay.
Lacy Boles (06:52:36):
He didn't need hair color.
Speaker 25 (06:52:38):
After everything else, the tampons, the Ritz, and all that?
Lacy Boles (06:52:41):
Yes. Well, that was another reason. I'm not trying to be like... But I'm like, "It's been three hours. I need a tampon." Just to be quite honest. We don't have money and I couldn't leave with the other two. If you're going to go and spend the money, where are my tampons at? Kind of thing.
Speaker 25 (06:52:55):
So you're getting angry because he's taking forever to get stuff to you.
Lacy Boles (06:52:58):
Well, he did for three hours and I'm like, "What is going on?" So then he's outside his car and his trunk and I'm like, "Dan, what is going on?" Trying to just kind of get something out of him. And he came in and that's when he choked me out and literally had me so hard across my chest. I thought he was going to kill me. And my head hit the cabinet, and he's wanting to take my cell phone. I'm like, at this point, thinking either I'm about to pass out, he's going to kill me, or when he let go, I was like, "Just take my cell phone." And he's saying, "Who are you talking to? Why are you lying to me? Why are you recording me?" And I'm like, "Take my phone. Just take it." He leaves. Gage still is on the top bunk. I loaded the babies up and went straight to my dad's car lot.
Speaker 25 (06:53:46):
Where's that at? The one in Austell?
Lacy Boles (06:53:47):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 25 (06:53:47):
Okay.
Lacy Boles (06:53:49):
I went down there because my father comes over every Saturday night. I don't have a cell phone. At this point, it's probably like...
Speaker 25 (06:53:54):
Does your father have a cell phone?
Lacy Boles (06:53:56):
No, he does not. He is so old school, he doesn't have a computer, he doesn't have anything. No. Yeah, I know. So when I get there, I'm shook up. I did not mention anything about Dan getting physical with me, but just was like, "Dad, here's what Dan would do. If Dan was high, he would call my dad or call my mom and say," I got some bad news. "Well, after about the 50th time of both of them being like, "This is nuts, we're not getting-
Speaker 25 (06:54:26):
So let me go back. So you're saying Dan, when he got ahold of your phone, he was calling your family?
Lacy Boles (06:54:31):
Okay. Not this time.
Speaker 25 (06:54:32):
Not this time.
Lacy Boles (06:54:33):
No, not this time. This is in previous times, not necessarily that he would take my cell phone, but he would leave and the next phone call I get is from my mom or my dad saying, "Are you okay?" Until it got to the point... And when I say this, this is years ago. So we were passed-
Speaker 25 (06:54:50):
So everything was going great?
Lacy Boles (06:54:52):
Yes, past all this, but I was going to my dad's car lot to say, "Dad, I don't know if he's going to call you and give you one of those random phone calls again, but I want you to know that something is wrong with Dan. I'm okay. I have the babies. Are you coming over? I don't have... You can't get in touch with me." So he went and got me gas and I think I got an energy drink. And then he said, "Okay, go back to the house. I'm going to come by. I'll bring the kids McDonald's or bring y'all McDonald's. Drinks, fries, burger, whatever." So I go back to the house. My cell phone's there. Dan's not there.
Speaker 25 (06:55:27):
So his car's not there?
Lacy Boles (06:55:28):
No.
Speaker 25 (06:55:28):
And he was driving the white Cadillac, correct?
Lacy Boles (06:55:32):
Yes. Just my cell phone. So I'm like, "Okay." It just got weirder and weirder for me. So my dad actually called my cell phone during that time. And I was like, "Well, hey, Dad. Just letting you know, Dan's not here, but I have my cell phone back."
Speaker 25 (06:55:48):
Let me reframe. What was the time again?
Lacy Boles (06:55:52):
Oh gosh. At this point in time, I want to say 6:30, 7:00.
Speaker 25 (06:55:54):
Okay. So we're in the evening time now.
Lacy Boles (06:56:01):
Oh, yeah. We're definitely in the evening time. Then I walked back to the bedroom. My dad's like, "Okay, well I'm just letting you know. I'm heading out to go get the McDonald's. I'll be there in a little bit." I guess he was just calling my cell phone to see if I had it back or if Dan was home or if I made it home safe. To get in touch with me before he left.
Speaker 25 (06:56:18):
Sure.
Lacy Boles (06:56:19):
I walked back in the bedroom to change the baby's diapers and get them situated and everything. And when I walked back through, Dan was in the kitchen. I didn't hear him come in. I didn't hear anything. I was like, ugh. I went like that and he was like, "What's wrong with you, weirdo?" And I'm like, "I didn't know you were home. You didn't come and tell me you were home. You didn't say anything." And he goes and sits in the living room. Well, at this point in time, Emerson and Daniel had come out of the bedroom and they're like, "Oh daddy, you know, whatever." And he looks at my daughter and he's like, "Guess what? Papa Terry's bringing us to McDonald's, and we've been in Papa Terry's car lot." And he said, "Stop lying for your mom. You're nothing but a liar. You don't have to lie for her anymore. Your Papa Terry ain't coming. That's not where y'all have been."
(06:57:02)
Sorry. So he says that to Emerson, and I'm like, "Dan, that is your daughter. Do not talk to her like that. Are you kidding me? My dad's going to be knocking on the door any minute." I literally said, "Get your shit together. You cannot be, in my opinion, wilding out like this. What is going on with you?" Next thing you know, my dad. So I go and I answer the door, and I'm like, "Dad, he's here. Don't even mention that I was down there. Don't say nothing." My dad comes in, he's like, "Oh, hey, Emerson. Hey, Daniel. Hey, Lacy. Hey, Dan, how are you?" He's like, "I'm fine. Why did you bring food? We're not a charity case. We have food in the refrigerator and freezer." And I was like, hmm. He never talks to my dad like that ever. My dad's been coming over and just rooting for our family in general. Dan was not up and up. He was doing so well.
Mr. Treadway (06:57:56):
We can have a record reflect please that the video was stopped at 21:09 and [inaudible 06:58:14] stop at this point.
Speaker 27 (06:57:56):
2105 over Zoom?
Speaker 26 (06:57:56):
Yes.
Speaker 31 (07:00:02):
Yes.
Speaker 29 (07:00:12):
I thought he was doing so well, so I'm like, "Okay, well, here we go." But my dad was like, "Well, Dan, I want to go with my cigarettes anyways. I can't [inaudible 07:00:16]." And he handled it to a T. I don't know if Dan grabbed McDonald's. I'm not sure what he grabbed, to be honest. And my dad was going upstairs. He was just, I guess, over it. So then me and my dad finished up upstairs and I was like, "Well, you want to go downstairs to smoke a cigarette, Dad?" So we went in the garage, but by the time we got done in the garage, Dan was in his car. So I'm like, "What the heck is he doing in his car, Dad? What's he doing?" He's like, "I don't know. Let's just smoke a cigarette." Daniel ran into the garage door and got in the car with him. And I guess we're just talking to whatever."
Speaker 28 (07:00:47):
So I'm going to stop you right there because I want to go back and clarify just a few things real quick.
Speaker 29 (07:00:48):
Okay, sure.
Speaker 28 (07:00:55):
The McDonald's...
Speaker 29 (07:00:56):
Yes.
Speaker 28 (07:00:57):
What did your dad bring you home?
Speaker 29 (07:00:59):
Cheeseburgers, french fries, Chicken McNuggets.
Speaker 28 (07:01:01):
So did he bring you... What did he bring for just you?
Speaker 29 (07:01:12):
Just for me?
Speaker 28 (07:01:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 29 (07:01:12):
Chicken nuggets.
Speaker 28 (07:01:13):
Chicken nuggets. What did he bring for the kids?
Speaker 29 (07:01:13):
Chicken nuggets.
Speaker 28 (07:01:13):
Chicken nuggets?
Speaker 29 (07:01:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 28 (07:01:13):
Did he bring something for Dan?
Speaker 29 (07:01:13):
Hamburgers. He brought hamburgers and fries for all of us. For whoever.
Speaker 28 (07:01:17):
What kind of hamburgers?
Speaker 29 (07:01:18):
Like a double cheeseburger. I honestly have no idea. I don't remember.
Speaker 28 (07:01:22):
You don't remember?
Speaker 29 (07:01:23):
No, not exactly what kind of cheeseburger.
Speaker 28 (07:01:24):
How many burgers was it?
Speaker 29 (07:01:26):
I'm going to say... I have no idea. One or two maybe.
Speaker 28 (07:01:38):
One or two. So did your father eat?
Speaker 29 (07:01:39):
Yes, he ate a cheeseburger.
Speaker 28 (07:01:39):
He ate a [inaudible 07:01:39]? What did you eat?
Speaker 29 (07:01:39):
I ate chicken nuggets.
Speaker 28 (07:01:39):
Chicken nuggets.
Speaker 29 (07:01:39):
I ate... Yeah, and some fries.
Speaker 28 (07:01:39):
The kid had chicken nuggets?
Speaker 29 (07:01:40):
Yes. And then I believe there was one burger left is what I'm assuming. I don't know if he took it downstairs with him or not, but I don't remember seeing it, if that makes sense. I don't know if he ate it or not. He wasn't eating very much, so I don't know.
Speaker 28 (07:01:57):
So you say he disappeared. Where did he go? Did he grab a McDonald's bag and disappear?
Speaker 29 (07:02:04):
Yeah, he grabbed a McDonald's bag and a drink. I don't know what... That's what I'm saying. I don't know what exactly was in that bag. I mean, when we finished up, he just went downstairs and he went downstairs and he went out to his car. So he could have taken it to his car with him. I mean, it might have been in his car for all I know, and the a drank.
Speaker 28 (07:02:19):
So how many drinks were brought?
Speaker 29 (07:02:24):
Three. Three large drinks.
Speaker 28 (07:02:25):
Three large drinks?
Speaker 29 (07:02:27):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 28 (07:02:27):
And this was about seven o'clock?
Speaker 29 (07:02:34):
Yeah, maybe a little later. I'm going to say at this point it's probably 8:30, 9:00.
Speaker 28 (07:02:36):
When he disappears with the drink and the...
Speaker 29 (07:02:41):
Yeah, it was probably about 9:00. 8:45, 9:00, I'm thinking when he disappeared with the drinks. And then by the time we got down there, he was outside in his car.
Speaker 28 (07:03:05):
Okay. So then what happens?
Speaker 29 (07:03:05):
They were thinking I've got in the car. They get out, headlights go on, car cranks. And me and my dad were like... My dad said "Hey Steve, something's not right." Dan has never left at 9:30 and normally he's the one who's saying, "We're going to get in bed and I'm going to let you and your dad have your time together and get the kids in bed and I'll be done."
Speaker 28 (07:03:27):
So who stays in that room downstairs?
Speaker 29 (07:03:27):
Nobody was staying in it.
Speaker 28 (07:03:34):
Nobody?
Speaker 29 (07:03:35):
No. Not at the time. It was a playground for babies. We had literally just made it into that, if that makes sense. My daughter used to stay, the 20-year-old, was staying down there, but she's moved out with her boyfriend that was months ago, months and months ago.
Speaker 28 (07:03:48):
So you remember we did do a search warrant on your phone, correct?
Speaker 29 (07:03:54):
Yes.
Speaker 28 (07:03:54):
Did you send anything to Dan at that point?
Speaker 29 (07:04:06):
About what?
Speaker 28 (07:04:06):
About him leaving?
Speaker 29 (07:04:07):
Yes. I said something like, "Why don't run as fast as you can?" Something about ginger babies, it was like Christmastime. And what I meant by that was you're high and I know it, so I don't know what you're running from. And I think he said back like, "Hey, I wasn't running. You want to fight in front of your dad," is what he said. But in my mind he's like, "No, you're running because you don't want..." He wasn't my father in the eyes. Well, that's something my dad's really big on. If you're going to talk, you're going to look me in the eyes so I can see who you are. If that makes sense, he wouldn't look at his eyes.
Speaker 28 (07:04:33):
So Dan leaves.
Speaker 29 (07:04:40):
Dan leaves. Me and my dad talk for a little bit longer and I'm like, "All right, well it's 9:45 at this point. I'm going upstairs. I'm getting the kids ready for bed." My dad leaves. I shut him off the garage. I put something on the door because again, he startled the crap out of me. And honestly, I didn't think he was coming back home, to be quite honest. I did not have any inkling that he would be coming back home. Go upstairs, my father calls me. It's probably about 11:00 at this point and says, "Hey, just want to make sure everything's okay." A little later. I'm not sure. And I said, "Yeah, everything's good. I'm going to bed." And then I went to go lay down. I did end up blocking Dan on my Facebook Messenger and my phone, which I did end up unblocking him on messaging.
(07:05:20)
I don't know if I ever unblocked him on the messenger. And I can't remember, it was probably a little bit past 12:00 when I [inaudible 07:05:21] back at the door. And I looked over the band's chair and just saw him go straight. As soon as I walked in the door, he already had a gun like this, and I started screaming. And I don't know what he was saying, something along the lines of, "I can't save me," or, "You can't save me," or something to me. I ran at him to grab his arm. I grabbed his arm and he pulled the trigger and I fell on top. I went immediately down to literally just look at his hand [inaudible 07:06:17] his mouth and his nose.
(07:06:19)
I was trying to give him CPR [inaudible 07:06:20] the blood from stopping. I hit the back of his head because I didn't know that the bullet went through the back of his head. And when I tried to pump CPR, I ran straight to the back. I was like, "Call 911."
Speaker 28 (07:06:20):
Then what happened?
Speaker 29 (07:06:41):
Then I went calling the 911 and I'm trying to explain to her what happened. I run back downstairs and she asked me if I could get the gun. I think I picked the gun up and I was like, "I don't want the gun." I threw the gun down and tried to resuscitate him one more time. He couldn't be resuscitated. And at this point I'm all over the place. I see a gun camo, like a gun slank that I didn't recognize. And so I'm on the phone operator and I'm like, "I'm picking this up." I don't know. I guess in my mind I'm thinking it has blood or has... I didn't know what it meant. So I cannot remember if the safe was locked or not. I put it in the safe and left it there and that's where it still is in the safe. And then she said... Well, when I was on the phone with her, she said, "This is beyond our help." I said, "I believe so." And that's when [inaudible 07:07:33] right there until the sheriff's office got there.
Speaker 28 (07:07:35):
So what is this camo thing you said? Is it like a gun case?
Speaker 29 (07:07:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 28 (07:07:42):
A holster?
Speaker 29 (07:07:43):
Holster. There you go.
Speaker 28 (07:07:44):
So it was a holster?
Speaker 29 (07:07:44):
Yes.
Speaker 28 (07:07:44):
You picked the holster up and put it up?
Speaker 29 (07:07:55):
Yes, I picked it up. I don't know why I picked it up to be honest. I mean, I didn't know. I didn't recognize it, so that's why I picked it up and put it in the safe.
Speaker 28 (07:08:02):
Let's go back to... I know it's difficult, but let's go back to how he was holding the gun. I think... Can you tell me what hand it was in? In his left hand. It was in his left hand. How was he holding it? Like this?
Speaker 29 (07:08:02):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 28 (07:08:02):
Further away from him?
Speaker 29 (07:08:34):
Like this, coming towards that, saying whatever he was saying. And then I went to go grab his arms up on that.
Speaker 28 (07:08:36):
Kind of like this? A little bit closer?
Speaker 29 (07:08:36):
A little bit like that. No, no, no, no. Okay. So moving closer as I'm screaming though, it that makes sense.
Speaker 28 (07:08:36):
Was falling forward? Was he falling back?
Speaker 29 (07:08:36):
He fell straight back.
Speaker 28 (07:08:36):
He fell straight. Did he have anything else in his hands?
Speaker 29 (07:08:36):
I have no idea. I don't [inaudible 07:08:38].
Speaker 28 (07:08:37):
Where did this happen?
Speaker 29 (07:08:37):
In the downstairs.
Speaker 28 (07:08:37):
In the downstairs?
Speaker 29 (07:08:37):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 28 (07:08:37):
Just inside, just in the doorway?
Speaker 29 (07:08:37):
So yeah, here's the doorway. I'm walking in and he's already standing right there and I'm like, "What is going on?" And then that's when he fell straight back. He didn't even hit his head on the bed and I fell on top of him. I almost hit the bed, if that makes sense.
Speaker 28 (07:09:40):
He fell back towards the bed?
Speaker 29 (07:09:47):
Yes. I don't know if his intention was to fall on the bed or what, but that's exactly where he fell on his back towards the bed.
Speaker 28 (07:09:52):
Was he wearing anything? What was he wearing?
Speaker 29 (07:09:52):
I really don't... Pants and a hoodie, I want to say.
Speaker 28 (07:09:52):
Did he have a hat on?
Speaker 29 (07:09:52):
I don't think he had a hat on. I don't know, because when I went to go look the glove and lift his head, I don't remember there being a hat in the way, if that makes sense.
Speaker 28 (07:09:52):
Okay. I've got some concerns with your statement on that.
Speaker 29 (07:09:52):
Okay.
Speaker 28 (07:09:52):
Because Dan, is he right-handed or left-handed?
Speaker 29 (07:09:52):
[inaudible 07:10:32] uses both hands. Yes, he does.
Speaker 28 (07:09:52):
I'm a little confused on the camera.
Speaker 29 (07:09:52):
Okay.
Speaker 28 (07:09:52):
I'm also a little confused on the gun. So you picked up the gun and you dropped it?
Speaker 29 (07:11:01):
I just put it... Yes. I mean, I don't know why they asked me. I just dropped it, yes. I was told, "Can you get the gun?" So that's all I did.
Speaker 28 (07:11:01):
You were asked where the gun was, and you stated it was, to the 911 dispatcher, that it was downstairs and you were upstairs.
Speaker 29 (07:11:16):
Yes. And then she said, "Can you get the gun?" And I said, "Yes." Or, "Are you able to obtain a gun or something like that?"
Speaker 28 (07:11:20):
She said, "Are you safe?" And you said you were upstairs.
Speaker 29 (07:11:26):
Right. But she also stated, "Can I get the gun?" I mean, I would've never put the gun had I not been told to pick the gun or could I get the gun or was I...
Speaker 28 (07:11:35):
Maybe you didn't understand what she was saying. The dispatcher [inaudible 07:11:41] listened to numerous times.
Speaker 29 (07:11:37):
Yes.
Speaker 28 (07:11:37):
She never asked you to pick up the gun.
Speaker 29 (07:11:37):
Oh, okay. Okay.
Speaker 28 (07:11:37):
She never asked you to do that.
Speaker 29 (07:11:49):
Well, I don't know if I was just doing it out of sheer panic, or if I misunderstood her, but I thought she said... Maybe it was because she said, "Are you safe?" Or, "Can you get the gun?" And I was just thinking... [inaudible 07:12:00].
Speaker 28 (07:11:59):
The other thing on that is you were asked several times where you were at and you said every time I'm upstairs. So the 911 call was a total of eight minutes.
Speaker 29 (07:12:06):
Yes. No, she asked me could-
Speaker 28 (07:12:06):
She asked you if he was [inaudible 07:12:23] and you said he was.
Speaker 29 (07:12:22):
Yes. And that's the last time I went downstairs.
Speaker 28 (07:12:23):
And she asked if you could do CPR and you said no.
Speaker 29 (07:12:27):
But I had already tried to do CPR. Yes. But I was downstairs.
Speaker 28 (07:12:28):
Before you called?
Speaker 29 (07:12:28):
Yes. I just told you that. I did try to do CPR. I tried to push the blood back just so I could push on his chest and do the CPR.
Speaker 28 (07:12:40):
You went back upstairs to get your phone. Did you wash your hands at all?
Speaker 29 (07:12:43):
No, sir.
Speaker 28 (07:12:43):
When did you wash your hands?
Speaker 29 (07:12:43):
I didn't wash my hands at all.
Speaker 28 (07:12:43):
[inaudible 07:12:56]. Why was there blood in the sink?
Speaker 29 (07:12:43):
I didn't have any blood in the sink.
Speaker 28 (07:12:43):
[inaudible 07:13:04].
Speaker 29 (07:13:05):
Upstairs? I have no idea. I mean, unless I grabbed the sink, but I never washed my hands. Not one time.
Speaker 28 (07:13:09):
There's indications that you washed your hands.
Speaker 29 (07:13:14):
No, sir. I did not. I did not. There was indication that there should have been blood everywhere, but I did not wash my hands. Not one time. I swear before God, I did not. I literally... I may have grabbed the sink or whatever, but I did not wash my hands. Never one time.
Speaker 28 (07:13:26):
You didn't wash your hands?
Speaker 29 (07:13:28):
No, sir.
Speaker 28 (07:13:29):
Not with [inaudible 07:13:33]?
Speaker 29 (07:13:33):
Unless I grabbed it, I don't know. But I never ever washed my hands. I never pulled the water up and washed my hands unless I [inaudible 07:13:39] or something like that.
Speaker 28 (07:13:40):
It's worse than [inaudible 07:13:41] wash your hands.
Speaker 29 (07:13:43):
I did not wash my hands, sir. I did not. I did not wash my hands. No, sir.
Speaker 28 (07:13:48):
[inaudible 07:13:54].
Speaker 29 (07:13:56):
I understand that, but I did not... I'm telling you the truth.
Speaker 28 (07:14:04):
So if you still have blood on your hands when you touched that case, you have blood on that case?
Speaker 29 (07:14:04):
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Speaker 28 (07:14:04):
[inaudible 07:14:12].
Speaker 29 (07:14:04):
I believe so. Yes, sir.
Speaker 28 (07:14:04):
And you showed me that safe?
Speaker 29 (07:14:04):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 28 (07:14:04):
There's no blood on the safe.
Speaker 29 (07:14:04):
Okay.
Speaker 28 (07:14:04):
And there's no blood on that case.
Speaker 29 (07:14:04):
But that safe has been... It's been moved since then.
Speaker 28 (07:14:04):
So you cleaned the safe?
Speaker 29 (07:14:30):
There's no blood on the case. I grabbed the...
Speaker 28 (07:14:32):
There's no blood on the safe.
Speaker 29 (07:14:37):
Okay. Well, I don't know. I mean, unless it's... I opened it with my bloody hands, I'm telling you.
Speaker 28 (07:14:38):
There's no blood on the safe.
Speaker 29 (07:14:38):
Okay. I don't know how there's not any blood on the safe.
Speaker 28 (07:14:38):
And part of the chemicals that they test for can pull anything if it's been cleaned, and there's no blood.
Speaker 29 (07:14:38):
Okay. Well, my hands were bloody when I opened it. I had blood on my hands when I put that gun in there.
Speaker 28 (07:14:38):
There's no blood on the side. There's no blood in the side.
Speaker 29 (07:14:38):
Okay, then I don't know.
Speaker 28 (07:15:07):
Just got that message.
Speaker 29 (07:15:12):
Okay. I'm not sure. I can tell you with all certainty and 100% honesty, I did not wash my hands. And when I put it up, I have blood on my hands, so I'm not sure what to tell you.
Speaker 28 (07:15:13):
[inaudible 07:15:23].
Speaker 29 (07:15:13):
I understand that. But I'm telling you the truth. I have nothing but the truth to tell you.
Speaker 28 (07:15:13):
I want you to tell me the truth.
Speaker 29 (07:15:13):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 28 (07:15:13):
Okay. I'm honest. I've been honest with you the whole time.
Speaker 29 (07:15:13):
Yes.
Speaker 28 (07:15:13):
And I'm really, really trying to help you here.
Speaker 29 (07:15:13):
Okay.
Speaker 28 (07:15:13):
Okay. [inaudible 07:15:44].
Speaker 29 (07:15:13):
Yes.
Speaker 28 (07:15:13):
Let's talk about this.
Speaker 29 (07:15:13):
Okay.
Speaker 28 (07:15:13):
[inaudible 07:15:56].
Speaker 29 (07:16:32):
I don't... Listen, the only thing I can tell you is that when I went to go, I had the guns and I was trying to open my safe. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. I mean, there's no [inaudible 07:16:17]. I did not wash my hands. There was blood in the sink [inaudible 07:16:19] said that. But he said there was no blood in the sink, so I did not wash my hands. I understand, sir. I understand that. I do understand that. And I told you again, you're right. But he chose this. I didn't choose this. He killed himself. I didn't do anything to try to stop him. This is the worst thing I've ever seen here that I've ever experienced, my worst. Besides if something ever happened to my kids.
Speaker 28 (07:16:45):
[inaudible 07:16:59].
Speaker 29 (07:16:45):
Okay.
Speaker 28 (07:16:45):
Okay? There was McDonald's in that room.
Speaker 29 (07:16:45):
Okay.
Speaker 28 (07:16:45):
Right?
Speaker 29 (07:16:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 28 (07:16:45):
There was also a cup.
Speaker 29 (07:16:45):
Okay.
Speaker 28 (07:16:45):
And sounds as if [inaudible 07:17:24] came into that room with that McDonald's.
Speaker 29 (07:16:45):
I didn't see what he meant. [inaudible 07:17:35]. That's it.
Speaker 28 (07:16:45):
Did you at any point when you got up Sunday seeing McDonald's bag?
Speaker 29 (07:16:45):
No, sir. I did not.
Speaker 28 (07:16:45):
[inaudible 07:17:49].
Speaker 29 (07:16:45):
Okay. I did not want him to do this to me and my family.
Speaker 28 (07:16:45):
[inaudible 07:18:06] that you made the comment in your text messages that you were going to leave him, right?
Speaker 29 (07:16:45):
Yes.
Speaker 28 (07:16:45):
And you were going to take everything he had?
Speaker 29 (07:16:45):
Yes. Yes.
Speaker 28 (07:16:45):
And what did he respond back to you about? [inaudible 07:18:33] to stop all this.
Speaker 29 (07:18:37):
Well, he said, "Stop your shit." I wasn't doing anything. Stop [inaudible 07:18:44]. That's what I'm saying. I don't know what he was telling me to stop. I was going to divorce him because I thought he was on drugs. That's it. Stop my shit. I wasn't doing anything besides basically saying I'm leaving you, like I've said many times before, and I meant it this time because I did not want to put our family through this chaos and it's craziness again. I did not.
Speaker 28 (07:19:03):
Craziness [inaudible 07:19:07]?
Speaker 29 (07:19:07):
With the drugs, I'm paranoia with that. Oh, here's mommy daddy fighting me in front of the babies again and babies are going to be chaotic and the whole house is going to fall apart again. And it tore us apart. It was like a hailstorm that came through like no other and I couldn't fix it or do it this time. So I was going to leave and divorce him.
Speaker 28 (07:20:55):
So let's talk about that, because Dan was doing real good at his job.
Speaker 29 (07:20:56):
He was. He was doing great.
Speaker 28 (07:20:56):
He was drug tested [inaudible 07:19:41].
Speaker 29 (07:20:56):
No.
Speaker 28 (07:20:56):
Dan was.
Speaker 29 (07:20:56):
At his job? Well-
Speaker 28 (07:20:56):
He worked for the Union.
Speaker 29 (07:20:56):
Yes. And he was kicked out of union twice for drugs.
Speaker 28 (07:20:56):
Yes.
Speaker 29 (07:20:56):
And that's why I-
Speaker 28 (07:20:56):
How many years ago?
Speaker 29 (07:20:56):
I stated to him-
Speaker 28 (07:20:56):
How many years ago? A couple of years ago.
Speaker 29 (07:20:56):
Yes. Okay.
Speaker 28 (07:20:56):
He got his child back.
Speaker 29 (07:20:56):
Yes.
Speaker 28 (07:20:56):
Things were going really good for him.
Speaker 29 (07:20:56):
Yes, they were. They were. That's why I feel like he was a professional cycle of... I don't know what he got into and that's why I said to him in my text that he shouldn't read. My next phone call's going to be to Steve. [inaudible 07:20:56].
Speaker 28 (07:20:56):
[inaudible 07:20:56]. [inaudible 07:20:56].
Speaker 29 (07:20:56):
When?
Speaker 28 (07:20:56):
[inaudible 07:20:56].
Speaker 29 (07:20:56):
No, he had not been drug tested [inaudible 07:20:56]. He had fake key in his car.
Speaker 28 (07:20:56):
Where's that fake unit now?
Speaker 29 (07:20:56):
My daughter has it. I do believe because she's going to clean out his car with the [inaudible 07:20:56]. The $40 we're still trying to get the money out the... That's why it made me think too. And I never questioned him about that $30, ever.
Speaker 28 (07:20:56):
Let's talk about that, because I saw those text messages where you guys were talking about the money. There was text message, too, that said, "I took one and I left you 13 [inaudible 07:21:07]." What was that about?
Speaker 29 (07:20:56):
[inaudible 07:21:12].
Speaker 28 (07:21:22):
He sent you a message and said, "I took one and I left you 13 or 12."
Speaker 29 (07:21:23):
Money maybe?
Speaker 28 (07:21:23):
What would that be?
Speaker 29 (07:21:23):
I'm assuming it's money.
Speaker 28 (07:21:23):
You knew what it was, because you responded to him.
Speaker 29 (07:21:33):
Yes. He probably left me $12 for gas or whatever.
Speaker 28 (07:21:33):
He took $1?
Speaker 29 (07:21:34):
Yes. [inaudible 07:21:35] to get gas or whatever. But that's what I'm saying when he starts talking about the pay and everything else. We didn't have money for Christmas. So when I saw him cash himself on the Vero account for $30, I didn't understand that. I never questioned him about it, but again in my mind, that's the only thing I think is why else. So why are we struggling so bad talking about money and making Cash App and yourself $30? And there was receipts found in your car that you're still trying to get another $40 out and get denied because you took the last $30 out of our bank account. You cashed that to yourself. When he cashes out to himself, I can't [inaudible 07:22:08]. I can't see what he spends on. I don't have access to Cash App account, period. [inaudible 07:22:27] withdraw if he wants to, but I do know that there are still more receipts of him still trying to get more money out.
Speaker 28 (07:22:30):
[inaudible 07:22:39].
Speaker 29 (07:22:30):
[inaudible 07:22:53] fall on top of him. That's all I know.
Speaker 28 (07:22:30):
[inaudible 07:22:56]. Did you grab his arm?
Speaker 29 (07:22:58):
No, I grabbed his arm as he was pulling the trigger. So wherever...
Speaker 28 (07:22:59):
[inaudible 07:23:05].
Speaker 29 (07:22:59):
Yes. And I'm trying to stop him.
Speaker 28 (07:22:59):
How tall was Daniel?
Speaker 29 (07:22:59):
Six foot.
Speaker 28 (07:22:59):
Six foot. How tall are you?
Speaker 29 (07:22:59):
Five foot.
Speaker 28 (07:22:59):
Five foot?
Speaker 29 (07:22:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 28 (07:22:59):
About six foot. So about six foot, right? I'm holding the gun like this?
Speaker 29 (07:22:59):
Yes.
Speaker 28 (07:22:59):
And you grabbed it like that?
Speaker 29 (07:22:59):
Yes. I was literally trying to put whatever I could in front, but it was not...
Speaker 28 (07:22:59):
So it was in his left hand just like this?
Speaker 29 (07:22:59):
Yes. Yes. All I know is that there was someone plugging from here. I know exactly where he had the gun pointed and I tried to stop him and then I [inaudible 07:23:50].
Speaker 28 (07:22:59):
[inaudible 07:23:54].
Speaker 29 (07:22:59):
I would have never done anything to hurt him. I didn't do anything, but try to stop him. He did this. He made this choice, not me.
Speaker 28 (07:22:59):
[inaudible 07:24:03].
Speaker 29 (07:24:02):
I don't know when he pulled trigger where anything entered or what entered. I just know that I was trying to stop the bleeding to give him CPR and that was it.
Speaker 28 (07:24:11):
And that's after the gun went off?
Speaker 29 (07:24:11):
That what?
Speaker 28 (07:24:11):
That you grabbed his arm?
Speaker 29 (07:24:21):
No, I crashed his arm target. I ran towards him, grabbing his arm, trying to stop him saying, "No, no, no." I couldn't hold his arm with the gun off.
Speaker 28 (07:24:28):
[inaudible 07:24:37].
Speaker 29 (07:24:28):
[inaudible 07:24:43] social security card for the new airport job that he was possibly going to get borrowed from.
Speaker 28 (07:24:28):
[inaudible 07:24:56] and he carried a gun.
Speaker 29 (07:24:58):
He did carry a gun. I know he had a [inaudible 07:25:00] that he sold probably less than a year ago.
Speaker 28 (07:25:10):
He hasn't carried a gun. His friends say he doesn't.
Speaker 29 (07:25:10):
Okay. But he has carried a gun. Just because his friend said he hasn't, he has carried a gun. There was a gun in that safe.
Speaker 28 (07:25:15):
[inaudible 07:25:20].
Speaker 29 (07:25:29):
It's the only thing in my head I can possibly come think about.
Speaker 28 (07:25:29):
[inaudible 07:25:38].
Speaker 29 (07:25:29):
Who?
Speaker 28 (07:25:29):
You.
Speaker 29 (07:25:29):
I didn't ever have the gun.
Speaker 28 (07:25:29):
You did.
Speaker 29 (07:25:40):
I did not. No, sir. I did not have the gun.
Speaker 28 (07:25:44):
[inaudible 07:25:48].
Speaker 29 (07:25:44):
I did not.
Speaker 28 (07:25:44):
[inaudible 07:25:53].
Speaker 29 (07:25:56):
No, sir. I never had the gun. Never. I'm telling the truth. I am telling you the truth. I never had a gun. He had a gun in his hand when I looked down there to try to stop him. I'm telling you the truth. I am.
Speaker 28 (07:26:07):
[inaudible 07:26:12] downstairs.
Speaker 29 (07:26:36):
No, sir. No, sir. I didn't do anything. He pulled the trigger and he killed himself. I never had a gun, ever. No, sir. I watched my husband kill himself right in front of my face and I tried to stop him and I couldn't. There was nothing that I felt like in this world that could have stopped him, not his kids, not anything.
Speaker 28 (07:26:53):
He loved his kid.
Speaker 29 (07:26:53):
He loved his kids.
Speaker 28 (07:26:53):
And he loves you.
Speaker 29 (07:26:53):
He did love me, and I loved him.
Speaker 28 (07:26:53):
I don't think it was an accident.
Speaker 29 (07:26:53):
That he killed himself? Because that's the only accident I can think of. I don't think it was an accident because I saw him do it. I don't see how that can not be an accident. If you have the gun already pointing towards your mouth and I'm trying to stop you, you still pull the trigger. I don't think he was in his right mind. That's what I think. I just don't think he was thinking clearly. He couldn't have been. [inaudible 07:27:19] he loves me, if he loves his kid, he loves his son with baseball. No. I saw nothing in his eyes. Nothing. I see light in your eyes. When I tried to stop him, I saw nothing. My heart hurts. He made that choice. I didn't make that choice.
Speaker 28 (07:27:48):
[inaudible 07:27:55].
Speaker 29 (07:27:58):
Are you kidding me? [inaudible 07:28:12].
Speaker 28 (07:28:12):
[inaudible 07:28:12].
Speaker 29 (07:28:12):
[inaudible 07:28:12] stay with him. Well, besides drugs and besides me thinking he was on drugs and becoming dead serious saying, "I'm getting a lawyer. I'm divorcing you." Now, he probably knew I was leaving him and I was, sir. I was going to leave. Whether it was permanent or temporary, just going to get his head on straight, I was going to leave him. You right, I was. But why would he not even forgive me? I did nothing wrong. Nothing. Nothing. I was taking care of business and taking care of the babies and everything else I was supposed to do to be a good wife, [inaudible 07:28:58]. [inaudible 07:28:58], I would've still loved him through it and would've been permanent. But I was able to leave that you saw my text messages on Friday. I was leaving him.
Speaker 28 (07:28:58):
[inaudible 07:29:07].
Speaker 29 (07:28:58):
I was angry. I was hurt.
Speaker 28 (07:28:58):
[inaudible 07:29:14]. You didn't want to hear from anyone at that time?
Speaker 29 (07:29:26):
I didn't care. You've seen the text messages all the time to ask him where he went, because I didn't care where he went. If he's high, I didn't care where he went. Go stay there and be hiding. That's it. I didn't care, because I would've asked over and over, " Where did you go? Where did you go? You guys know where he went?" I wasn't worried about it. I didn't care where he went because in my mind I was already leaving. I'm not doing this to my entire family. It's not fair to me or these banks to be put through this meeting.
Speaker 28 (07:29:47):
[inaudible 07:29:53].
Speaker 29 (07:30:05):
Yes. I couldn't do that. Why would we have a titanic turned around for you to crash it? No, I'll take these babies and leave and you can have everything in the house before I put these babies through that again. [inaudible 07:30:21]. Because he's looking for a recording device or a TV show thing that he may be on that he doesn't know about that I'm receiving [inaudible 07:30:42] for. [inaudible 07:30:45]. I was not going to do that to her. She deserves better.
Speaker 28 (07:30:30):
[inaudible 07:30:57].
Speaker 30 (07:30:30):
Do you want a water?
Speaker 29 (07:30:30):
No.
Speaker 28 (07:30:30):
Can you give me your phone with that bank card stuff real quick?
Speaker 29 (07:30:30):
I don't know what you want.
Speaker 32 (07:32:27):
How's the jury doing? Good. Very good. All right. Detective Hardy.
Speaker 31 (07:32:29):
I'm sorry, Your Honor.
Speaker 32 (07:32:29):
You can continue.
Speaker 31 (07:32:33):
Thank you. Detective Hardy, did you see toward the end of the video there during the interview where this defendant said, "I didn't care where he went." Did you see that?
Detective Hardy (07:32:37):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 31 (07:32:37):
Is it fair to say she said it multiple times?
Detective Hardy (07:32:46):
Yes.
Speaker 31 (07:32:47):
She told you, "I didn't care where he went. I didn't ask him where he was."
Detective Hardy (07:32:49):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 31 (07:32:51):
And that's consistent with the text, is it not?
Detective Hardy (07:32:52):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 31 (07:32:54):
Did you see anything where she was asking where he was?
Detective Hardy (07:32:57):
No.
Speaker 31 (07:32:58):
She said to you, "I didn't care where he was."
Detective Hardy (07:33:01):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 31 (07:33:02):
Did you watch Detective Oggins' interview?
Detective Hardy (07:33:04):
I have.
Speaker 31 (07:33:06):
Did you watch all of it?
Detective Hardy (07:33:08):
Yes.
Speaker 31 (07:33:08):
Did you see the part where this defendant says she went down to confront Dan to find out where he had been?
Detective Hardy (07:33:16):
Yes.
Speaker 31 (07:33:17):
Did you watch that?
Detective Hardy (07:33:18):
I did.
Speaker 31 (07:33:19):
And put this booby trap up, this [inaudible 07:33:22] to knock over so she would know when he got in. Did you see that?
Detective Hardy (07:34:01):
I did.
Speaker 31 (07:34:01):
Counsel please and show what's been marked for identification purposes on the State's Exhibit 202. Yes, sir. May I approach the witness please?
Speaker 32 (07:34:16):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 31 (07:34:17):
Sir, let me show you what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 202. You can take it. I don't think it has any hazards on it.
Speaker 32 (07:34:25):
No.
Speaker 31 (07:34:26):
State's Exhibit 202 and ask you if you recognize that.
Detective Hardy (07:34:28):
I do.
Speaker 31 (07:34:30):
Just briefly, what is that?
Detective Hardy (07:34:31):
It's the plastic bag that contains the receipts, some black scarfs and an air freshener.
Speaker 31 (07:34:37):
Okay. And you've seen the actual physical receipts prior to them being backed up?
Detective Hardy (07:34:43):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 31 (07:34:44):
Is there evidence tape on there?
Detective Hardy (07:34:47):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 31 (07:34:50):
Okay. Do you think those receipts are fair and accurate pictures of the actual receipts you saw after the execution of the search warrant?
Detective Hardy (07:34:56):
Yes.
Speaker 31 (07:34:58):
Any reason to believe the receipts have been added or taken away or changed or there is receipts not represented?
Mr. Drude (07:35:00):
... player change and those receipts not representative of what you actually saw collected from the March 5th search warrant?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:35:07):
No.
Mr. Drude (07:35:08):
Respectfully move the court to admit into evidence what's been previously marked for identification purposes only State's Exhibit 202.
Brian Steel (07:35:14):
No opposition, Your Honor.
Judge (07:35:16):
All right. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Drude (07:35:19):
Thank you. If you'll just open it and we don't have to go through all of them or anything, but if you would just open it, break the evidence seal and show the jury some of the contents please.
Detective Nick Hardy (07:35:44):
The plastic bag. And then these are the receipts, racetrack receipt.
Mr. Drude (07:35:55):
Is this the group of receipts that you saw a photograph of?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:35:59):
Yes. And then-
Mr. Drude (07:35:59):
For example, State's Exhibit 190, right?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:36:05):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Drude (07:36:05):
Okay. All right. You can bag it back up and give them back to me.
Detective Nick Hardy (07:36:08):
Thanks.
Mr. Drude (07:36:08):
I want to talk just a minute about the safe. You said that something about a fingernail in the safe. Can you repeat what you said about that?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:36:41):
Yes. There was a white press-on fingernail in the safe.
Mr. Drude (07:37:09):
Approach opposing counsel please and show what's been marked for identification purposes only State's Exhibit 203, 204, 205, 206. Thank you. May I approach the witness please?
Judge (07:37:38):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Drude (07:37:40):
Sir, let me show you what's been marked for identification purposes only State's Exhibit 203, 204, 205, 206. If you can look at that, just tell what it is without much detail or description.
Detective Nick Hardy (07:37:52):
It's a picture of the inside of the safe.
Mr. Drude (07:37:56):
All right. And the next one?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:37:58):
A more zoomed in picture with the fingernail.
Mr. Drude (07:38:02):
Are they all interior of the safe?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:38:04):
Yes, they're all interior of the safe.
Mr. Drude (07:38:05):
All right, sir. And you saw those contents of the safe. Did you see the contents of the safe after the execution of the search warrant wrapped up?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:38:14):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Drude (07:38:15):
That what's depicted as the contents of the safe on 203, 204, 205, 206. Is that accurate as to what you saw recovered from 83 Gray Mill Court on March 5th?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:38:24):
Yes.
Mr. Drude (07:38:25):
Look like anything's been changed or altered as to what was in the safe specifically regarding what's depicted in those photographs 203, 204, 205, 206 that make them not representative of what you saw collected?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:38:37):
No, sir.
Mr. Drude (07:38:38):
Respectfully move the court to admit into evidence what's been previously marked for identification purposes of State's Exhibit 203, 204, 205 and 206.
Judge (07:38:47):
Any objection? No.
Brian Steel (07:38:50):
No opposition, Your Honor.
Judge (07:38:52):
All right. Admitted.
Mr. Drude (07:38:55):
Permission to publish, Your Honor?
Judge (07:38:56):
Yes.
Detective Nick Hardy (07:38:57):
Thank you.
Mr. Drude (07:39:02):
So when you opened the safe, or when Palace or Parker opened the safe, was there the gun holster?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:39:10):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Drude (07:39:10):
Some other items, right? And what was this?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:39:13):
That's going to be-
Mr. Drude (07:39:15):
For the record, that's State's Exhibit 205.
Detective Nick Hardy (07:39:20):
That will be the white fingernail, press-on nail.
Mr. Drude (07:39:24):
State's Exhibit 206. What's that?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:39:28):
That's the white press-on nail. I believe it's been removed from the safe so you can get a closer picture.
Mr. Drude (07:39:35):
And was this lady's fingernail inside the safe after it had been unlocked and opened?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:39:42):
Yes.
Mr. Drude (07:39:54):
I want to take you back to Detective Ogden's video again, just briefly. Was it important for you to watch that video, to observe it, and video that Detective Ogden had done before you came on board?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:40:10):
Yes.
Mr. Drude (07:40:11):
Why?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:40:12):
I needed to see everything, all the evidence, everything that had been done prior to me taking over.
Mr. Drude (07:40:17):
Had you had an opportunity prior to your watching that video to watch other suspect videos?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:40:23):
Yes.
Mr. Drude (07:40:24):
Dozens of times, hundreds of times?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:40:26):
Yes.
Mr. Drude (07:40:29):
Okay. Which one? 50 times, estimate.
Detective Nick Hardy (07:40:30):
I would say probably over 100 times.
Mr. Drude (07:40:31):
100 times you've watched or conducted-
Detective Nick Hardy (07:40:34):
Suspect interviews, yes.
Mr. Drude (07:40:35):
And you received training on how to do that?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:40:38):
Yes. I've actually attended GBI training through or training through the GBI on interviews and interrogations. And I've actually taught it in mandate classes.
Mr. Drude (07:40:47):
Is body language something you look at when you're conducting a suspect interview?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:40:54):
Yes.
Mr. Drude (07:40:56):
Why?
Detective Nick Hardy (07:40:57):
Gives us clues and depicts on types of things that maybe somebody's being nervous about, things that are, maybe they're not telling the truth in certain aspects.
Brian Steel (07:41:10):
Your Honor, I have a motion.
Judge (07:41:13):
All right. Stand please.
(07:41:13)
All right. Whenever you're ready, Mr. Stiff.
Brian Steel (07:42:01):
I have three issues. First of all, can the detective be excused?
Judge (07:42:06):
That'd be fine. [inaudible 07:42:09]
Detective Nick Hardy (07:42:10):
Yes, sir.
Brian Steel (07:42:29):
Your Honor, I will be moving for a mistrial. The detective just tells the jury that based upon viewing other people's movements, he can tell whether they're telling the truth. There's no way anybody should be able to do that in a jury trial. That's for the jurors. They are the sole entity to be trier of fact and credibility of witnesses. He has no right to say that he could tell when someone's lying.
(07:43:01)
Number two, that's number one, that's a mistrial. It was intentional. It was elicited by the prosecution with a professional witness. This is not just a witness blurting out. Number two, we are in a world of Daubert. That's how this trial is. I put everyone on notice of experts coming. I received zero notice that this person will be in any way qualified as an expert in somehow reading somebody's body movements. Otherwise, I would've had experts to say that what he's saying is impossible to do.
(07:43:39)
Now I can't do that. We're in the midst of trial, excuse me, and it would be prejudicial under 403. It's inadmissible to talk about intention of somebody, that they're being untruthful or lying. Lying's an intentional act of knowingly not telling the truth. Under 704, you can't talk about state of mind of somebody else, even an expert. So I ask the court for that reason as well.
(07:44:07)
Third, I'm supposed to get some sort of writing if there's something that he's going to elicit, he being the witness going to elicit, that he relies upon for expert testimony and his background and resources, because I would've checked them all out. I received nothing of a CV from this person at all. So with all that being said, for any one of those reasons or all of them, I ask the court to strike his last answer, one.
(07:44:40)
Two, consider mistrial. I don't want a mistrial, by the way. I am not up here saying this would be a great time for mistrial, and I don't want to mislead the court. If you grant the mistrial, I will be filing a motion for a plea in bar in double jeopardy. I just want everybody to be aware. I'm not trying to do this twice. And I think the trial may be, maybe not, going well for Ms. Boles. I don't want to lose this jury. But how do you come back from...
(07:45:10)
As I sit here, I mean, the court is wise. I sit here and I hear this person is going to tell everybody on this jury that he can tell when someone's lying? I mean, this is beyond, beyond something that is within the realm of a fair trial. I can't believe that I'm standing here before you with that type of testimony. So for all those reasons or separately, I ask the court to, I don't want it, but grant a mistrial, which I really don't want, but I'm being straight with you. I'll be filing a plea in bar, it's directly appealable. And I'm raising that this was intentional conduct goaded by the prosecution to have Ms. Boles abort this trial.
(07:45:58)
Number two, strike this from the jury. Ask them to ignore, remove from their notes. They're ordered not to listen to and it's stricken forever. They cannot deliberate on it, cannot think about it. The last question and answer by this detective and tell the detective to not answer questions in that manner whatsoever. He's not to be reading people's body movement to tell when they are telling the truth or not for any and all those reasons, and we don't get the proper expert notice under Daubert. I ask the court to... And I would've challenged him under Daubert, by the way. I had no notice.
Judge (07:46:39):
All right. Thank you, Mr. Steel. Mr. Drude, what do you want to respond?
Mr. Drude (07:46:42):
Yes, sir. I can appreciate Mr. Steel's hyperbole here, but I didn't ask this witness if he was an expert. I didn't tender him as any kind of expert. And most importantly, he never passed judgment on the truthfulness of this defendant ever, not once. I asked him, "Why is body language important to you during the suspect interview process? Not this suspect's interview process, but just generally, how can that aid you and how can that assist you?" And then he says what he said, he testified as he did.
(07:47:13)
But let's not lose sight of what Mr. Steel elicited from his witness earlier during Detective Ogden. When he asked Detective Ogden specifically to pass on the veracity of this defendant's story. He said, "Did you press him on that? Did you press her on that? Did you tell her that can't be true?" So see, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. He boldly kicks down the door to that. And then I asked Detective Hardy vague generalities about how body language can be important in an interview, and now there's a mistrial motion. So see, it can't work both ways that way.
(07:47:54)
He wasn't tendered as an expert. He wasn't offered as an expert. That's why no pretrial notice of his expert qualifications or lack thereof was served upon the defense because he's not an expert, but he can testify to generalities about what he looks for during an interview. Body language can tell a lot of things, nervousness, could tell trepidation, could tell deceit if that's what he believes, but he's not giving that information as an expert. And again, it was asked generally how that can be helpful to him.
(07:48:22)
And there's no writing or study that's going to be forthcoming from after I finished this line of testing. That wasn't my purpose to it. It wasn't my purpose for asking that. But he can talk about generalities, what he looks for in an interview process. There's no mistrial material there, period. He didn't pass upon the credibility of this defendant at all. He didn't even approach it. He said, "In general it can be important." That's it.
(07:48:52)
I didn't ask him, nor did I intend to, "Well, what about her body language in this case? Well, what does that tell you? Let's talk about this or let's talk about this, what she did." I didn't ask, nor was I going to. So it's not mistrial material at all. It's not even close. I ask that you deny the motion. Thank you.
Judge (07:49:10):
All right. This will be the last break of the afternoon. And during the break I'm going to get with the court reporter and I think I heard and understand what was asked, but I'll just verify that I'll give you a ruling. Anything else for us see in 10 minutes?
(07:49:25)
I understand the concern, but I don't see the witness commenting on Ms. Boles' body language or giving any type of interpretation. And I think if we stop right there and he doesn't go any further, then I really don't see a problem. So I deny the motion for a mistrial. One juror cannot go past 5:00, so we've got about 15 minutes.
Mr. Drude (08:02:10):
Oh, gosh. I'm going to be wrapped up on this direct by about that time.
Judge (08:02:16):
All right.
Brian Steel (08:02:17):
Can I just add, I understand we're getting out of here in a couple minutes. Can I just add one quick thing while the juror's coming in? Even over the weekend, if you don't mind. If the court reporter would go back just a little further, the sequencing is, I'm not quoting, "Was it important to you, Mr. Witness, Detective Hardy, to review the prior statements that Detective Ogden did?" "Yes." And then this came. So I heard what you said. I respect it. I'm continuing to ask for the mistrial, and I understand that, Your Honor, but I'm just saying in sequencing what you're saying, it really didn't apply to Ms. Boles. I think it does apply to Ms. Boles because that's how it started and then those questions.
(08:03:06)
With that being said, I understand the time and I know you're not rushing me. No one's rushing, but I understand where we are and before the next question's asked, if I could just renew my motion for a mistrial, understanding that you've denied it and that we're moving on to another topic is what the court ordered, I believe.
Judge (08:03:26):
Well, I understand what you're saying and I deny your motion for a mistrial and I don't know where you were going, but I can understand if Mr. Steel felt like, "Where's this going?" But you're shaking your head where you're not going any further than that.
Mr. Drude (08:03:45):
I've got just a few more pictures to enter and that'll be end of the direct examination.
Judge (08:03:49):
Why don't we bring them out, finish your direct and direct to the weekend?
Speaker 33 (08:03:54):
Judge, if I may address the court on another matter, we had a witness flying up that's from Florida and it's the crime scene, the search warrant. I think if we could stipulate to most things like they said we could do, we might could do an abbreviated version so he can get out of here. So that's what I would anticipate trying to do in a very quick manner to put some evidence into him.
Judge (08:04:24):
That'd be real quick. Well, we would want to-
Speaker 33 (08:04:27):
He's got cross-examination, that's right.
Judge (08:04:29):
He's going to have to cross this witness.
Brian Steel (08:04:32):
Well, in good faith, we'll talk with Prosecutor Cole. If he has the time this weekend, we will try to stipulate to anything he wants out of this witness. If it's just really pictures. And then if he needs some background on the man or something, I'm sure we can work out a stipulation, if that helps you.
Speaker 33 (08:04:54):
Maybe we can meet with the witness-
Brian Steel (08:04:56):
After the jury.
Speaker 33 (08:04:56):
... during the recess and I'll show you what I want to put into it.
Brian Steel (08:04:59):
We will try to do that.
Judge (08:05:00):
Okay.
Speaker 33 (08:05:01):
Did you get those photos [inaudible 08:05:03]?
Judge (08:05:02):
All right. Well, I really appreciate you all working out stuff like that. It makes it easier on everybody. So let's have the jury come out and you can have a few more questions and then a break.
Jury (08:05:05):
[inaudible 08:05:38]
Judge (08:06:10):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. I've been told by Diane that, well, one of y'all can't go past 5:00 today, which is completely fine. And I believe that we're just going to go maybe another 10 minutes and then we'll call it weekend. Okay? So we'll get the witness back.
Mr. Drude (08:06:24):
He's on the way in. Thank you.
Judge (08:06:24):
All right. Welcome back. Still under oath.
Detective Nick Hardy (08:06:24):
Yes.
Judge (08:06:24):
Okay?
Detective Nick Hardy (08:06:24):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Drude (08:06:44):
Your Honor, if I may show to the counsel what I'll mark for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 207, 208, 209, please. May I approach the witness please?
Judge (08:07:02):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Drude (08:07:06):
All right. Officer in the middle of going there. Sorry. Sir, if you'll take a look at what's been previously marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 207, 208, 209. State, do you recognize those exhibits?
Detective Nick Hardy (08:07:22):
I do, sir.
Mr. Drude (08:07:23):
Just generally without going into detail, what are they?
Detective Nick Hardy (08:07:26):
They're pictures or still shots of Ms. Boles during my interview.
Mr. Drude (08:07:30):
Which one?
Detective Nick Hardy (08:07:31):
The interview on March 6th or 5th.
Mr. Drude (08:07:34):
Do they-
Detective Nick Hardy (08:07:35):
5th. 5th. Sorry.
Mr. Drude (08:07:36):
Do they appear to be still shots that are accurate and representative of this defendant in the interview, March 5th interview?
Detective Nick Hardy (08:07:46):
They do.
Mr. Drude (08:07:47):
Anything changed or different with their clothing or their surrounding color of the walls, et cetera, that make that different or make you think that's not from the March 5th interview we just watched?
Detective Nick Hardy (08:07:56):
No.
Mr. Drude (08:07:59):
Okay. Move the court to respectfully to admit into evidence what's been previously marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 206, 207, 208.
Brian Steel (08:08:17):
No opposition, Your Honor.
Judge (08:08:17):
Admit.
Mr. Drude (08:08:18):
I'm sorry. Let me make sure I got these numbers right. 207, 208, 209. Move the court to admit those. 207, 208, 209.
Judge (08:08:19):
No opposition?
Brian Steel (08:08:23):
Same answer.
Judge (08:08:23):
Okay. Admit.
Mr. Drude (08:08:28):
Did you have an opportunity to see at any point Ms. Boles looked like she was putting on lipstick during your interview with her on March 5th?
Detective Nick Hardy (08:08:38):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Drude (08:08:40):
Inside the interview room?
Detective Nick Hardy (08:08:41):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Drude (08:08:44):
Permission to publish State's Exhibit 209.
Judge (08:08:46):
Granted.
Mr. Drude (08:08:46):
Was this when you were in the middle of questioning?
Detective Nick Hardy (08:08:57):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Drude (08:08:59):
All right. Finally, I want to go back to the execution of the search warrant on that same date, sir, March 5th, 2020. Did you have an opportunity to go through the home prior to the execution of the search warrant?
Detective Nick Hardy (08:09:16):
No.
Mr. Drude (08:09:16):
You did not go through the home at all?
Detective Nick Hardy (08:09:18):
I did go through the home during the execution of the search warrant.
Mr. Drude (08:09:21):
Yeah, sorry. I may have said, "Prior to," but-
Detective Nick Hardy (08:09:23):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Drude (08:09:24):
... during the execution of the search warrant, did you have an opportunity to go through the home?
Detective Nick Hardy (08:09:27):
Yes, I walked the home.
Mr. Drude (08:09:28):
And did you walk most of the area?
Detective Nick Hardy (08:09:31):
Yes. I went down to the downstairs. I wanted to see the scene. And then Ms. Boles took me to her bedroom and showed me the safe.
Mr. Drude (08:10:03):
I can show-
State's Attorney (08:10:03):
I can show opposing counsel what I've previously marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 290 and 291. You would anticipate filling that gap, but I'll mark these as 290 and 291. Please, if I may approach opposing counsel. May I approach the witness, please?
Judge (08:10:30):
Yes, sir.
State's Attorney (08:10:31):
Sir, let me show you what's been marked for identification purposes only as State's Exhibit 290 and 291. Ask you if you'll just look at those two. Do you recognize those photos?
Detective Hardy (08:10:45):
I do, sir.
State's Attorney (08:10:47):
Just briefly, what are they? Photographs of?
Detective Hardy (08:10:49):
They're interior shots, photographs of the home.
State's Attorney (08:10:53):
The home at 83 Braymill Court?
Detective Hardy (08:10:55):
Excuse me. Yes, sir. One is looking up and I think one is looking at the other angle.
State's Attorney (08:11:02):
Do they look like State's 290 and 291? Do those photographs look like they fairly and accurately depict the home, the Boles home at 83 Braymill Court as you saw and encountered it on March 5, 2020?
Detective Hardy (08:11:15):
They do.
State's Attorney (08:11:15):
Take a look carefully. Is there anything that's changed or altered in those photographs that make that scene different from the scene you encountered? I know it's been a while, but from the scene you encountered on that date, March 5, 2020?
Detective Hardy (08:11:28):
No.
State's Attorney (08:11:28):
Respectfully, move the court to admit into evidence what's been previously marked for identification purposes only State's Exhibit 290 to 291.
Defense Attorney (08:11:36):
Your Honor, may I just take one more look at that before I answer?
Judge (08:11:40):
Sure.
Defense Attorney (08:11:41):
Thank you. I apologize.
State's Attorney (08:11:43):
May I approach opposing counsel, please?
Judge (08:11:45):
Sure.
State's Attorney (08:11:46):
Thank you.
Defense Attorney (08:11:47):
Sorry. Okay. Got it? No opposition, Your Honor.
Judge (08:12:00):
Those are admitted.
State's Attorney (08:12:04):
So speaking... Permission to publish, Your Honor?
Judge (08:12:06):
Yes, sir.
State's Attorney (08:12:06):
So speaking of 290 first, just generally tell the jury what that is.
Detective Hardy (08:12:14):
That's a photograph of the entranceway if you were looking up, coming in through the front door.
State's Attorney (08:12:22):
And 291, same question, sir. Just generally show what that is.
Detective Hardy (08:12:31):
So that's a photograph from inside the split level, I guess the living room area, and it's looking back towards the kitchen and the hallway, which would go back to the bedrooms.
State's Attorney (08:12:41):
All right. And did you say you had an opportunity to kind of walk through and take a look at all the floors?
Detective Hardy (08:12:51):
Yes, sir.
State's Attorney (08:12:53):
Take a look at what's on 290. If you can zoom in on that pegboard, just not totally. See where it says making memories by the minute?
Detective Hardy (08:13:02):
Yes, sir.
State's Attorney (08:13:09):
Okay. Do you have confidence that that was there when you conducted your walkthrough for the search warrant execution?
Detective Hardy (08:13:14):
It was.
State's Attorney (08:13:17):
I'd like you to do something for me. I want you to tell the jury, please, you walk through the home, you're doing your search warrant execution, or you're walking through before you get down and looking for stuff that you're looking and hoping to find. Tell the jury how many pictures of Dan Akers you saw in that house on March 20, 2020, 100 days after he was killed.
Speaker 34 (08:13:38):
March 5th.
State's Attorney (08:13:39):
March 5, 2020, 100 days after he was killed.
Detective Hardy (08:13:42):
I didn't see any.
State's Attorney (08:13:46):
No further questions.
Judge (08:13:48):
Okay. This is a great stopping point for the weekend. Y'all have a wonderful weekend. [inaudible 08:13:53] give you instruction before the weekend, and this is the same thing you've already heard from me, but since we're going to be apart for a couple of days, I think it's prudent to do this.
(08:14:08)
Do not conduct any research about this case or about any people or places mentioned during the trial. Do not visit any locations you've heard mentioned. Do not refer to any books or documents that were not admitted during the trial. Do not use dictionaries or other reference materials to research anything related to this case. Do not search the internet, websites, blogs, or use any other media to get information about this case. Do not research legal terms or the law.
(08:14:39)
You must avoid any and all accounts of this trial that might appear in the news media, whether online, in print, or on the radio. Remember that you are the ones that have been qualified as fair and impartial jurors in this case. No outside influence can affect your decision. For that reason, you may not discuss this case with anyone, including friends or family, or let anybody discuss the case with you or around you. This includes discussing or sharing information by email, texting, blogging, or any form of social media until actual deliberations begin. You must not discuss the case even amongst yourselves in the jury room during breaks or anywhere else.
(08:15:21)
We're grateful for all the attention and time you've given us. We'll start again Monday morning at nine o'clock. Have a safe weekend everyone.
Defense Attorney (08:16:09):
... things.
Judge (08:16:09):
Sure.
Defense Attorney (08:16:10):
I asked this honorable court, but I don't know if you ever ruled if I could, before the next question's asked, if I could renew my motion for mistrial. I didn't do it in front before the next question's asked. I asked you, but you didn't rule on it. So I hope that it's preserved, but if it's not...
Judge (08:16:29):
Well, yeah. I mean, you can make your record and you can make your motion and your objection.
Defense Attorney (08:16:34):
But was it okay that I said, rather than do it in front of the jury -
Judge (08:16:40):
Yes.
Defense Attorney (08:16:40):
... I said that I was going to make the objection from the motion for mistrial again, but I did it outside the presence of the jury and outside the presence of the witness. But I hope the court, if it's true, would take that as I preserved my motion for mistrial.
Judge (08:16:56):
That's how I did.
Defense Attorney (08:16:57):
Okay. And I thank you. The second thing is you also denied... I don't know if you said it, but you said basically the State should move on. You denied striking it, giving instructions to the jury. So I just want to... If that's true, that you denied that request.
Judge (08:17:13):
You made the request and I refused it. Yes.
Defense Attorney (08:17:16):
All right. And the last thing, Your Honor, can I give the court three cases?
Judge (08:17:23):
Yes.
Defense Attorney (08:17:23):
These are great cases. Perry, P-E-R-R-Y, versus Leeke, L-E-E-K-E, 488 US 272, 1989. Again, it was G-E-D-E-R-S versus United States. It's 425 US 80 at 88. That's 1976. And Villarreal, V-I-L-L-A-R-R-E-A-L versus Texas three... Excuse me, that's wrong. Versus Texas 607 US 465, 2026. And what it says is that in a position that we're in, when a witness is on the witness stand and there's a break, we have a long break now, we have a weekend break, no one can talk to this witness about his or her testimony, anybody, that includes the parties. And I'd like the court to order that.
(08:18:29)
In fact, in the Perry case versus Leeke, it was his own lawyer. It was the client. The accused couldn't even talk to his own lawyer. And the Supreme Court said, and they correct it later in the other two cases, but they say that's a little wrong. The accused has a right to speak with his counsel, but it was a short break, so it's not error. But there was a 17- hour break and the accused can talk to his counsel, but the detective's not an accused and no one should be speaking with him about his testimony. That's my request.
Judge (08:19:07):
Any opposition to that?
State's Attorney (08:19:08):
I don't plan to... I don't even know Detective Hardy. I don't plan to call him or talk to him at all either. I'll make sure [inaudible 08:19:17]
Judge (08:19:19):
All right, Detective Hardy, you understand?
Detective Hardy (08:19:19):
Yes, sir.
Judge (08:19:19):
And I agree with the request. So you're in the middle of your testimony.
Detective Hardy (08:19:20):
Yes, sir.
Judge (08:19:25):
And you'll be done Monday, but until that time, do not discuss the case with anybody or your testimony with anybody.
Detective Hardy (08:19:32):
Yes, sir. Absolutely.
Judge (08:19:33):
Thank you. Anything else before we break the weekend?
Defense Attorney (08:19:38):
Not on behalf of Ms. Bole.
State's Attorney (08:19:39):
I want to bring up one quick matter. I don't know who the defense called, plans to call, if anybody. It's not obviously required that they call any witness, but we were served with a witness list that had witness Terry Lee on the witness list and the court invoked the rule of sequestration and we did see Mr. Lee yesterday in the hall on the bench appear to be listening to Court TV broadcast of this trial on his phone. I don't know if he's going to testify or not, but if he does, that would've been a violation of the rule of sequestration. Thank you.
Judge (08:20:17):
Okay.
Defense Attorney (08:20:19):
And I told the State who we plan on calling right now, and if that changes, I'll update the list, but I already told them it's the... I've told them who the people are. It was not Mr. Lee. And if the state's not calling Mr. Lee, then... Ms. Boles is Mr. Lee's daughter, so I don't know what he was doing on his phone, if anything. But if the State's not calling, we don't intend to call him, then I would like to [inaudible 08:20:50]
State's Attorney (08:20:49):
It's not an issue then.
Judge (08:20:50):
All right.
Defense Attorney (08:20:51):
Thank you.
Judge (08:20:51):
We're up to court's Exhibit 4, is that right? Or five?
Speaker 35 (08:20:53):
Four.
Judge (08:20:59):
Four. All right. So I was just handed this note. "I have a funeral to attend with my wife. Her grandfather passed away. The funeral is in St. Louis on November 20. We would have to leave November 19." And then the juror gives his name. That's Thursday.
State's Attorney (08:21:33):
Judge couldn't leave after five o'clock because you're not going to be here Friday.
Judge (08:21:40):
We'll find out what time he has to leave on Thursday. Did he tell you?
Speaker 36 (08:21:45):
Yes, but let me reiterate.
Judge (08:21:47):
Okay.
Speaker 36 (08:21:51):
Yes, he said you would be gone.
State's Attorney (08:21:56):
Is there any reason Detective Hardy can't be about his business?
Speaker 34 (08:22:02):
I want to address one thing before he leaves, right? In light of the ruling by the court, we usually have a victim witness coordinator, Stephanie, who is here to alert him when to come. But as I understand, I want to make sure he knows he has to be here at nine o'clock Monday morning because nobody from the DA's office is going to call him over the weekend to remind him.
Detective Hardy (08:22:25):
I'm clear. Yes, sir. Thank you.
Speaker 34 (08:22:28):
Thank you, Your Honor.
Speaker 36 (08:22:43):
First thing in the morning being soon as he dropped the kids off at school, he and his wife were leaving to drive up.
Judge (08:22:52):
Okay. We'll just have to deal with this next week.
Defense Attorney (08:23:00):
Did you tell us an initial or who... Did you give us direction or could you or after?
Judge (08:23:08):
Why don't you come look at the note and that way it's still being broadcast using anybody's name.
Defense Attorney (08:23:13):
Understood.
Speaker 36 (08:25:36):
Is there any reason for me to hold bail?
Judge (08:25:36):
No.
Speaker 37 (08:25:36):
Are they also here?
State's Attorney (08:28:00):
Well, the jury is also here. She's about to let them go.
Speaker 37 (08:28:00):
You said something about starting from here at 8:30. What about starting at 8:30? (silence)
