Mr Smith (00:00):
And I'm going to show you picture number 31. Are these the Christmas lights that you observed on the 13th?
Detective Wells (00:08):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (00:08):
And is this the location that you observed them as evidenced by your photograph?
Detective Wells (00:12):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (00:12):
All right. Did you seize them on the 13th?
Detective Wells (00:15):
No, sir. Not on the 13th.
Mr Smith (00:18):
All right. And why is that?
Detective Wells (00:21):
They appeared to be affixed to the bedpost. They weren't laying out like they had been messed with. They looked like that's where they had been for a while.
Mr Smith (00:30):
Right. And did you go back on another day and seize those Christmas lights?
Detective Wells (00:35):
Yes, sir. We performed another search warrant on the 17th, and on that day we took them on the side of the caution.
Mr Smith (00:41):
All right. And where were they located on the 17th?
Detective Wells (00:45):
In the same place.
Mr Smith (00:50):
So on the 13th, we went over this very late yesterday, you seized 10 items, correct, that we went over yesterday?
Detective Wells (00:57):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (00:59):
Then you go back the 17th and seize additional items?
Detective Wells (01:06):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (01:07):
Christmas lights being one of them, hot glue gun, and some other items that we'll go over in a few minutes, correct?
Detective Wells (01:13):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (01:14):
All right. Now, I'm going to take you to the 13th. After you seized items and processed the house. What did you do on that day, if anything, in regards to this case?
Detective Wells (01:36):
After we completed the search warrant, I transported all the items that we collected back to the sheriff's office. We started documenting what we were doing, typing, "This is what we did, what we did." I know we had several discussions that afternoon amongst ourselves, the other detectives, and I believe it was the next day before we actually collected any more items.
Mr Smith (02:05):
Okay.
Detective Wells (02:06):
Yes.
Mr Smith (02:06):
Now when you were collecting items on the 13th and going into a house, generally do you wear anything special when you go in and serve a search warrant on a house to collect items?
Detective Wells (02:22):
It depends on what you're looking for. Generally, no. Sometimes you wear booties that go over your shoes. Sometimes you don't. So if you have to have them-
Mr Smith (02:36):
Do you remember if you wore booties on the 13th?
Detective Wells (02:38):
No, sir. I didn't that day.
Mr Smith (02:39):
Okay.
Judge (02:40):
Sir, if you can speak louder, please.
Detective Wells (02:43):
Okay.
Judge (02:43):
I think the voice is getting a little low. Thank you.
Mr Smith (02:47):
Did you wear booties on the 13th?
Detective Wells (02:49):
No, sir.
Mr Smith (02:51):
All right. How about gloves? Do you normally wear gloves when you go to a location during a search warrant and collect items?
Detective Wells (03:04):
Generally, yes. If you're doing the pictures, whichever one of us is taking pictures, we may not have gloves on initially because you're manipulating the camera, but if you stop taking pictures and start trying to collect stuff, you're going to automatically put gloves on.
Mr Smith (03:17):
Did you put on gloves on this day to collect the items that we've already gone through?
Detective Wells (03:21):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (03:23):
And then explain to the jury, when you collect items, what do you package them in? In particular, what did you package the items that you collected on the 13th? How did you package them?
Detective Wells (03:40):
Different agencies have different practices. We use mainly manila envelopes, plastic bags, different size paper bags like they used to use at the grocery stores. Depending on what item that you're collecting, you have to decide if you're going to attempt to have any type of lab examination. Now, you might need to put it in a different type of container because you want to minimize the amount of handling that you do with whatever it is you're seizing. All the stuff here in this day were manila envelopes, paper bags.
Mr Smith (04:13):
And why do you do manila envelopes and paper bags?
Detective Wells (04:16):
One, they're easy to write on, and two, you can get airflow through the paper so it breathes.
Mr Smith (04:27):
What if an article is placed in something that can't breathe? What are the risks at that point in time?
Detective Wells (04:33):
Primarily you're worried about anything that has moisture on it, because if you seal it up in a plastic bag and it gets airtight, it would mold or mildew inside the bag and it's detrimental to whatever you're trying to find.
Mr Smith (04:44):
So as to State's Exhibit 43, 44, 45, 46 and 47, those are the earbuds, phone chargers, and the vacuum cleaner, you processed those with gloves, correct?
Detective Wells (04:59):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (05:01):
And you packaged them in what containers?
Detective Wells (05:04):
Those were paper bags.
Mr Smith (05:11):
Okay. All right. So you mentioned then you do not believe you collected any other items on the 13th.
Detective Wells (05:15):
I'm sorry, I was wrong on that point. Detective Leatherwood did bring the sex assault kit and a hair envelope from the hospital on the 13th.
Mr Smith (05:29):
All right. Then on the 14th, did you collect a second sample cheek swab from David Prevatte on the 14th?
Detective Wells (05:43):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (05:45):
And did you collect a left and right-hand nail scrapings on November 14th?
Detective Wells (05:51):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (05:52):
The next day? May I approach the witness, Judge?
Judge (05:54):
You may.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
[inaudible 00:06:19]
Mr Smith (05:54):
[inaudible 00:06:25]
Speaker 1 (05:54):
[inaudible 00:06:39]
Mr Smith (06:44):
I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibits 49 and 50 and ask, do you recognize State's Exhibits 49 and 50?
Detective Wells (06:56):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (06:57):
And let's start with 49. What is 49?
Detective Wells (07:00):
49 is a manila envelope labeled with our OCA number or case number listed as a sample cheek swab from Prevatte, assigned our item number 13.
Mr Smith (07:12):
And what was done with this cheek swab?
Detective Wells (07:15):
It was submitted to the lab.
Mr Smith (07:16):
All right. Move to introduce State's Exhibit 49.
Judge (07:19):
Any objection?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
No, sir.
Judge (07:20):
State's Exhibit 49 will be admitted into evidence.
Mr Smith (07:23):
State's Exhibit 50. What is State's Exhibit 50?
Detective Wells (07:27):
Item 50 is also marked with our case number, nail scrapings from Prevatte, our item number 14. And it was also submitted to the state lab.
Mr Smith (07:37):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 50.
Judge (07:39):
Any objection?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
No, sir.
Judge (07:41):
State's Exhibit 50 will be admitted into evidence.
Mr Smith (08:05):
[inaudible 00:08:01] with the investigation of this case, was it limited to crime scene investigations and collection of evidence?
Detective Wells (08:12):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (08:14):
So you weren't involved in questioning witnesses, anything like that?
Detective Wells (08:20):
No, sir. I wasn't.
Mr Smith (08:21):
So I'm going to take you to then on November 15th, 2017. On November 15th, as part of your duties as crime scene investigations and collection of evidence, were you provided some items from Detective Leatherwood, mainly nail clippings from Paitin Fields and a blanket?
Detective Wells (08:54):
Yes, sir. I was.
Mr Smith (08:55):
All right. And as to the blanket, what did you have this listed as?
Detective Wells (09:06):
We listed it as a blanket. Detective Leatherwood had reported that it had been given to him by Ms. Lisa Hunt.
Mr Smith (09:15):
All right. And on your property sheet, what did you list it as?
Detective Wells (09:19):
Item number 17.
Mr Smith (09:22):
All right. Is there a narrative next to item number 17 on your property sheet?
Detective Wells (09:28):
The only narrative on that property sheet was received from Colleen Mistovich, the SANE nurse at New Hanover Regional Medical Center.
Mr Smith (09:33):
May I approach the witness, Judge?
Judge (09:35):
You may.
Mr Smith (09:35):
I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 51. Ask that you look at 51. Do you recognize 51?
Detective Wells (10:01):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (10:01):
And what is 51?
Detective Wells (10:02):
It's a copy of the property sheet with item 16 and 17 listed on it.
Mr Smith (10:07):
And ask that you review this to see if it refreshes your recollection as to what's on that property sheet. Does it refresh your recollection?
Detective Wells (10:20):
Yes, it does.
Mr Smith (10:21):
All right. As to item 17, your item 17, what is item 17?
Detective Wells (10:27):
It's listed as a blanket from the couch per Lisa Hunt.
Mr Smith (10:30):
All right. Thank you. Gotcha. I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 52 for identification purposes. Do you recognize State's Exhibit 52?
Detective Wells (11:01):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (11:01):
What is State's Exhibit 52?
Detective Wells (11:05):
52 is the large paper bag marked with our OCA number, item number 17, listed as a pink blanket.
Mr Smith (11:10):
And is that the pink blanket listed on your property sheet received from Lisa Hunt saying that that pink blanket was from the couch?
Detective Wells (11:19):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (11:21):
All right. What was done with this pink blanket?
Detective Wells (11:23):
It was later sent to the crime lab.
Mr Smith (11:25):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 52.
Judge (11:27):
Any objection?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
No, sir.
Judge (11:28):
State's Exhibit 52 will be admitted into evidence.
Mr Smith (11:36):
Now, you've testified previously on November 17th, you went back out to 104 Blackwater Drive. Is that correct?
Detective Wells (11:49):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (11:50):
And you did a second search?
Detective Wells (11:53):
Yes, sir. We did.
Mr Smith (11:54):
All right. Do you remember who was with you on that day?
Detective Wells (11:55):
I believe it was Detective Leatherwood. I believe Detective Kleiner was there that day, and I believe Brandenburg also came back that day.
Mr Smith (12:12):
Who did?
Detective Wells (12:13):
Brandenburg, I believe.
Mr Smith (12:14):
All right. And when you get back out to 104 Blackwater Drive on November 17th, what do you observe when you arrive?
Detective Wells (12:25):
Basically the same residence. We went back in. Some of the items throughout the house, you can tell somebody had been inside the house and had moved some things around. It was not in the exact same situation it was when we left on the 13th.
Mr Smith (12:42):
Okay. And what was the purpose of going back on the 17th?
Detective Wells (12:45):
To look for additional items that could be used as evidence.
Mr Smith (12:49):
All right. And was there also a vehicle there at some point while you were searching 104 Blackwater Drive?
Detective Wells (13:02):
Yes, sir. The red sedan.
Mr Smith (13:05):
Okay. Did you end up searching that red sedan too?
Detective Wells (13:07):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (13:08):
All right. And may I approach the witness, Judge?
Judge (13:12):
You may.
Mr Smith (13:29):
[inaudible 00:13:29]
(13:29)
I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 53 for identification purposes and ask, do you recognize State's Exhibit 53?
Detective Wells (13:40):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (13:40):
What is 53?
Detective Wells (13:42):
It's a CD disc with some photos on it.
Mr Smith (13:45):
And the photos are of... Excuse me. The photos are what?
Detective Wells (13:50):
Should be of the vehicle that was at the residence on the 17th.
Mr Smith (13:53):
And will those pictures help illustrate your testimony today?
Detective Wells (13:57):
Yes, sir. They will.
Mr Smith (13:57):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 53.
Judge (13:57):
Any objection?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
No sir.
Mr Smith (13:57):
Permission to publish?
Judge (13:57):
State's Exhibit 53 will be admitted into evidence and published.
Mr Smith (15:10):
Detective Wells, can you see the screen?
Detective Wells (15:12):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (15:13):
All right. I'm showing you State's Exhibit 53, picture 1 on that disc. What are we looking at here?
Detective Wells (15:25):
It's a shot of the rear of that red sedan that was at the residence that day on the 17th.
Mr Smith (15:37):
State's Exhibit... Or strike that. Picture 2?
Detective Wells (15:41):
Same vehicle just taken from the right side.
Mr Smith (15:47):
State's Exhibit... Or strike that. Picture 3?
Detective Wells (15:51):
It was a clothes' basket with the clothes in it that come out of the vehicle.
Mr Smith (15:57):
Picture 4?
Detective Wells (15:59):
It's the same vehicle just with the trunk lid open showing the contents of the trunk.
Mr Smith (16:06):
Page 5 or picture 5?
Detective Wells (16:09):
It's the same vehicle with the front passenger door open, looking down into the front passenger floorboard.
Mr Smith (16:15):
All right. And did you seize any items of interest from this area?
Detective Wells (16:21):
Yes, sir. That pair of red underwear laying on the floorboard, they were seized.
Mr Smith (16:26):
May I approach the witness?
Judge (16:44):
You may.
Mr Smith (16:44):
I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 54 for identification purposes. Do you recognize State's Exhibit 54?
Detective Wells (16:53):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (16:54):
And what is State's Exhibit 54?
Detective Wells (16:55):
It's a large paper bag with our HC case number, item number 18, being the red underwear you see in that photograph.
Mr Smith (17:06):
What was done with State's Exhibit 54?
Detective Wells (17:08):
They were later submitted to the crime lab.
Mr Smith (17:09):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 54.
Judge (17:11):
Any objection?
Speaker 2 (17:12):
No, sir.
Judge (17:13):
State's Exhibit 54 will be admitted into evidence.
Mr Smith (17:16):
Did you seize anything else out of this vehicle?
Detective Wells (17:20):
No, sir.
Mr Smith (17:45):
Permission to republish State's Exhibit 35, Judge.
Judge (17:49):
You may.
Mr Smith (18:52):
All right. So you process the car, you get one pair of underwear out of the car, and do you proceed to go inside 104 Blackwater Drive?
Detective Wells (19:02):
Yes, sir. We did.
Mr Smith (19:03):
You testified just a few minutes ago that items were not necessarily in the same place as when you seized... Or strike that. When you searched the house back on the 13th, is that correct?
Detective Wells (19:16):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (19:17):
All right. And I'm showing you from State's Exhibit 35, picture number 26. This is from the 13th. What items then did you go back and seize on the 17th from this house?
Detective Wells (19:34):
Let's see. The other items we seized other than the underwear was a small child's book. It was handed over to us by Ms. Hunt while we were outside before we actually entered the house. There was two gray and white sheets that were taken off of the couch there in the living room, the strand of Christmas lights from the headboard in that northeast bedroom. There was a dark blue home derby child's top from that bedroom, a blue pony shirt from the northeast bedroom, a purple colored child's top from the northeast corner bedroom, the hot glue gun, two firearms, excuse me, three firearms. Correction, two firearms and some ammunition. There was a nylon camouflage colored rope bracelet that was located lying in the yard and the tan pillowcase with pillow from the couch.
Mr Smith (20:38):
May I approach the witness?
Judge (20:38):
You may.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
[inaudible 00:21:20]
Mr Smith (21:48):
[inaudible 00:21:33]
(21:48)
I'm going to show you State's Exhibits first 55. Do you recognize 55?
Detective Wells (21:57):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (21:57):
What is 55?
Detective Wells (22:00):
55 is a large paper bag marked with case number, our item number 20.
Mr Smith (22:06):
And has this item number 20 been repackaged as evidence by wording on the front of this?
Detective Wells (22:11):
Yes, sir. It was taken out of the original bag it was in because it tore the bag so bad it was put in another bag at a later date.
Mr Smith (22:19):
All right. And item number 20 is what? Or strike that. State's Exhibit 55 is what?
Detective Wells (22:26):
It's one of the gray and white sheets from the couch.
Mr Smith (22:30):
All right. And what did you do with this State's Exhibit 55?
Detective Wells (22:36):
It was sent to crime lab as well.
Mr Smith (22:36):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 55.
Judge (22:36):
Any objection?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
No, sir.
Judge (22:44):
State's Exhibit 55 will be admitted into evidence.
Mr Smith (22:45):
I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 56. Do you recognize 56?
Detective Wells (22:54):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (22:55):
What is 56?
Detective Wells (22:57):
56 is marked, or excuse me, a large paper bag marked with our case number, item number 21. It's one of the second gray and white sheet from the couch, and it was also later sent to the state crime lab.
Mr Smith (23:11):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 56.
Judge (23:14):
Any objection?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
No, sir.
Judge (23:16):
State's Exhibit 56 will be admitted into evidence.
Mr Smith (23:32):
You said you also seized the Christmas lights?
Detective Wells (23:37):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (23:37):
And again, those were the Christmas lights from the northeast bedroom?
Detective Wells (23:41):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (23:41):
As pictured in photograph number 31 on the screen?
Detective Wells (23:46):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (23:46):
[inaudible 00:23:46]
Speaker 2 (23:46):
[inaudible 00:23:46]
Mr Smith (23:46):
I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 57. Do you recognize State's Exhibit 57?
Detective Wells (24:14):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (24:15):
Okay. What is 57?
Detective Wells (24:17):
57 is a paper bag marked with our case number item number 22 is marked as the Christmas lights from the headboard, and it too was sent to the state crime lab.
Mr Smith (24:26):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 57.
Judge (24:28):
Any objection?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
No, sir.
Judge (24:28):
State's Exhibit 57 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
[inaudible 00:24:46]
Mr Smith (25:37):
[inaudible 00:24:51]
(25:37)
I'm going to show you State's Exhibits 58, 59, and 60 for identification purposes. Let's start with 58. Do you recognize 58?
Detective Wells (25:46):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (25:49):
What is 58?
Detective Wells (25:49):
58's a paper bag marked with our case number, our item number 23 is the blue home derby top.
Judge (25:58):
It's the what? I'm sorry?
Detective Wells (26:00):
Blue home derby is the name that's printed on this top little shirt.
Judge (26:04):
Oh, a shirt. Okay.
Detective Wells (26:05):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (26:07):
And what did you do with State's Exhibit 58?
Detective Wells (26:10):
It was submitted to the crime lab.
Mr Smith (26:11):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 58.
Judge (26:13):
Any objection?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
No, sir.
Judge (26:15):
State's Exhibit 58 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
State's Exhibit 59, Lieutenant Wells?
Detective Wells (26:21):
59 is another one of our item number 24 with our case number on it. It's the blue pony shirt. That too was submitted due to crime lab.
Mr Smith (26:31):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 59.
Judge (26:35):
Any-
Speaker 2 (26:35):
[inaudible 00:26:36]
Judge (26:36):
State's Exhibit 59 will be admitted into evidence.
Mr Smith (26:38):
And then State's Exhibit 60.
Detective Wells (26:44):
Item number 60 is a paper bag marked with our case number, item number 25. It's marked as the purple top, and it too was submitted to the crime lab.
Mr Smith (26:52):
When you say top, do you mean shirt?
Detective Wells (26:54):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (26:55):
All right. Move to introduce State's Exhibit 60.
Judge (26:58):
Any objection?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
No, sir.
Judge (27:00):
State's Exhibit 60 will be admitted into evidence.
Mr Smith (27:36):
You said also that you seized a camo nylon rope bracelet found on the ground next to what?
Detective Wells (27:47):
There was a S10 Blazer SUV parked in the yard on the west side of the house.
Mr Smith (27:54):
Okay. And what item number was that, the camo nylon rope bracelet?
Detective Wells (28:02):
It was our item number 30.
Mr Smith (28:03):
[inaudible 00:28:04] 60.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
60 [inaudible 00:28:33].
Mr Smith (28:33):
I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 61. Do you recognize 61?
Detective Wells (28:38):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (28:38):
What is 61?
Detective Wells (28:40):
61 is a manila envelope marked with our case number, marked as item number 30, listed as camo bracelet from the yard, and it was submitted to the crime lab.
Mr Smith (28:49):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 61.
Judge (28:51):
Any objection?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
No, sir.
Judge (28:53):
State's Exhibit 61 will be admitted into evidence.
Mr Smith (28:56):
And I'm going to ask you, do you have your gloves? Permission to publish 61 by having him just hold it up for the jury, Judge?
Judge (29:04):
You may.
Mr Smith (29:40):
All right, sir. I'm going to have you step down and go in front of the jury, hold it up for the jury members, walk across so everybody can see it.
Detective Wells (29:48):
Yes, sir.
Judge (29:48):
All right, Mr. Smith.
Mr Smith (32:03):
Just a minute. You said also that you seized a tan pillows from a couch. Is that correct?
Detective Wells (32:10):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (32:44):
What item number was that?
Detective Wells (32:44):
31.
Mr Smith (32:44):
[inaudible 00:32:45]
(32:44)
I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 62. Do you recognize State's Exhibit 62?
Detective Wells (32:45):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (32:45):
What is State's Exhibit 62?
Detective Wells (32:49):
62 is a large paper bag marked with our agency case number, marked item number 31, the tan pillow from the couch.
Mr Smith (32:55):
What was done with this pillow?
Detective Wells (33:02):
The pillow itself, nothing further was done with the actual pillow. The pillow case was separated from the pillow and that item was submitted to the lab.
Mr Smith (33:05):
All right. Move to introduce State's Exhibit 31.
Judge (33:05):
Any objection?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
No, sir.
Judge (33:13):
I think you said State's Exhibit 31. That'd be 62.
Mr Smith (33:18):
62, yes, Judge.
Judge (33:20):
Right. State's Exhibit 62 will be admitted into evidence.
Mr Smith (33:23):
And you said the pillowcase was taken off of that pillow and separated, is that correct?
Detective Wells (33:28):
Yes, sir. It was.
Mr Smith (33:29):
And what item number was the pillow case?
Detective Wells (33:32):
Item 31A.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
63.
Mr Smith (33:36):
I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 63. Do you recognize State's Exhibit 63?
Detective Wells (33:45):
Yes, sir.
Mr Smith (33:46):
And what is state's exhibit 63?
Detective Wells (33:49):
It is the paper bag marked with our case number, our item number 31A, being the pillow case, and it too was sent to the crime lab.
Mr Smith (33:58):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 63.
Judge (34:00):
Any objection?
Speaker 2 (34:01):
No, sir.
Judge (34:01):
State's exhibit 63 will be admitted into...
Judge (34:00):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (34:01):
No, sir.
Judge (34:01):
State's Exhibit 63 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
So Detective Wells, when you went back into the house on the 17th, you seized the items that we just went over, is that correct?
Lieutenant Wells (34:35):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
Did you see any other, outside of the lights, did you find any other possible ligatures that you collected?
Lieutenant Wells (34:46):
Other than the hot glue gun, no, sir.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
All right. And you said the hot glue gun you seized from the living room, is that correct?
Lieutenant Wells (34:57):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
I'm showing you picture 25 from State's Exhibit 34. This is the picture from November 13th, your first search of 104 Blackwater Drive. Do you see in this picture the area where you seized the hot glue gun?
Lieutenant Wells (36:32):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Where?
Lieutenant Wells (36:35):
To the left of that first white door on the left, the northeast bedroom. Right there on the left, as you go into that room, there's a table there with that blue covering over it, the hot glue gun was right down, and there's a box laying in top of that.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I'm going to zoom in on a white box below that table. Is this the white box that you found the hot glue gun?
Lieutenant Wells (37:02):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Was this where the hot glue gun was on the 17th?
Lieutenant Wells (37:07):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Was it in a similar condition or a similar location as to the 13th?
Lieutenant Wells (37:22):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
So, did you find any more or seize any more ligatures or possible ligatures in the house on the 17th?
Lieutenant Wells (37:36):
No, sir. We didn't.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
And why is that?
Lieutenant Wells (37:40):
We didn't see anything that appeared could have been used as a ligature.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Did you see any other drop cables or, excuse me, drop cords, or extension cords and such on the 13th and the 17th?
Lieutenant Wells (37:56):
Yes, sir. There were some cords still in the house. The other items were plugged in in the residence, but they weren't in a position that they looked like they had been moved or messed with. They were just there. We didn't believe they were involved or could have been involved in what we were trying to investigate.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
So, are you telling this jury that you seized ligatures on the 13th and the 17th that you felt possibly could be used in this crime?
Lieutenant Wells (38:23):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
And why those items and not others?
Lieutenant Wells (38:28):
Because basically their location, they looked like they were either thrown down or laying down immediately where somebody would have ready access to them. If we had found anything secreted or hid for some kind of reason, we would probably have seized that. We didn't find that. And the other cords and stuff that we saw in the residence appeared to be just where they ordinarily are.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
And again, on the 13th or the 17th, did you find any dog collars, leashes or anything else?
Lieutenant Wells (38:58):
No, sir.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
I'm going to take you to later after the 17th. At some point, did you take buccal swabs, or were buccal swabs taken of Jamie Sites?
Lieutenant Wells (39:26):
Yes, sir. Let's see. They were collected by Sergeant Leatherwood on the 21st and turned over to me.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
And what item number was that?
Lieutenant Wells (39:47):
33.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Were buccal swabs taken from a Haley Faucette?
Lieutenant Wells (39:53):
Yes, sir. They were.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Who were they taken by?
Lieutenant Wells (39:56):
Also by Sergeant Leatherwood.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
And handed over to you?
Lieutenant Wells (40:01):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
And what item number was that?
Lieutenant Wells (40:04):
34.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
34 or 35?
Lieutenant Wells (40:10):
34 is what I have indicated.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
May I approach the witness?
Judge (40:13):
You may.
Lieutenant Wells (40:20):
Oh, I'm sorry. 34 is the belt from Ms. Faucette. 35 were the cheek swabs, excuse me.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Okay. All right. So, you collected cheek swabs from Jamie Sites, item number 33, cheek swabs from Haley Faucette, item number 35?
Lieutenant Wells (40:41):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Did you also collect cheek swabs from a Melissa Brown?
Lieutenant Wells (40:49):
Yes, sir. Detective Kleiner collected those and turned them over to me.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
What item number?
Lieutenant Wells (40:53):
37.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Did you also collect cheek swabs from Michael Hall?
Lieutenant Wells (40:59):
Yes, sir. Sergeant Leatherwood collected those and turned them over to me.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
What item numbers were those?
Lieutenant Wells (41:04):
38.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
All right. I'm going to show you what's marked as State's Exhibit 64. Do you recognize 64?
Lieutenant Wells (41:57):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
What is 64?
Lieutenant Wells (42:00):
64 is a manila envelope marked with our case number. It's marked item numbers 33, 35, 37, and 38.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
And that's what you previously testified to were the item numbers for Jamie Sites, Haley Faucette, Melissa Brown, and Michael Hall. Is that correct?
Lieutenant Wells (42:15):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
And those are the buccal swabs for them?
Lieutenant Wells (42:16):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
And are those buccal swabs contained individually inside that envelope?
Lieutenant Wells (42:25):
Yes, sir. There should be an envelope for each set of swabs inside this container envelope.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 64 at this time, and I will introduce each one separately.
Judge (42:38):
And so that was Jamie Sites, Haley Faucette?
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Melissa Brown, Michael Hall.
Judge (42:56):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (42:57):
No, sir.
Judge (42:58):
State's Exhibit 64 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Can you open that State's Exhibit 64, the big manila envelope, please? All right. Inside that manila envelope, State's Exhibit 64, there were 4 envelopes, is that correct?
Lieutenant Wells (44:48):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
I'm going to show you 64A, B, C, and D, and ask do you recognize each of those items?
Lieutenant Wells (45:06):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
All right. Let's start with 64A. What is 64A?
Lieutenant Wells (45:11):
64A is the manila envelope marked with our case number, item number 33, as the known standard swabs from Jamie Sites.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
And what were done with those swabs?
Lieutenant Wells (45:21):
They were submitted to the lab.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Move to introduce 64A.
Judge (45:24):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (45:25):
No, sir.
Judge (45:25):
64A will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
64B?
Lieutenant Wells (45:29):
64B is marked with our case number, item number 35, marked as the two swabs from Haley Faucette. They were also submitted to the state crime lab.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
Move to introduce 64B.
Judge (45:41):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (45:42):
No, sir.
Judge (45:44):
64B will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
64C?
Lieutenant Wells (45:48):
64C is another manila envelope marked with our case number, item number 37, indicates the swabs from Melissa Brown. They were also entered and was correctly submitted to the crime lab.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Move to introduce 64C.
Judge (46:02):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (46:03):
No, sir.
Judge (46:04):
64C will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
Then finally, 64D?
Lieutenant Wells (46:08):
64D is another manila envelope marked with our case number, item number 38, indicating the cheek swabs from Michael Hall. They were also submitted through the crime lab.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Move to introduce 64D.
Judge (46:21):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (46:21):
No, sir.
Judge (46:21):
64D will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Okay. I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 65 for identification purposes. Do you recognize State's Exhibit 65?
Lieutenant Wells (47:04):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
What is State's Exhibit 65?
Lieutenant Wells (47:07):
65 is a paper bag marked with our case number, our item number 34. It's listed as the, "Tan canvas belt."
Speaker 3 (47:16):
Okay. And where was this tan canvas belt seized from?
Lieutenant Wells (47:19):
Sergeant Leatherwood collected that from Haley Faucette.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
And do you know what date?
Lieutenant Wells (47:25):
November 21st.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
All right. And I'm going to ask that you open this item up, and without publishing it.
(47:34)
Does that appear to be the tan belt that Leatherwood seized and gave to you?
Lieutenant Wells (48:01):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Substantially the same condition as when you received it?
Lieutenant Wells (48:04):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
All right. Move to introduce State's Exhibit 65.
Judge (48:07):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (48:10):
No, sir.
Judge (48:10):
State's Exhibit 65 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
All right. Lieutenant Wells, I'm going to ask that you put your gloves on, please. Permission to publish [inaudible 00:48:33].
Judge (48:35):
[inaudible 00:48:36] letting the detective show it to everybody?
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Yes, sir.
Judge (48:38):
Okay. [inaudible 00:48:42]. You can go ahead and step down and show the jury.
Speaker 3 (51:30):
Were standards taken, buccal standards taken from Lisa Hunt?
Lieutenant Wells (51:34):
I believe so. Yes, sir. [inaudible 00:51:44]. Yes, sir, they were.
Speaker 3 (51:58):
What Pender County Sheriff's Office number?
Lieutenant Wells (52:02):
41.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
Were standards taken from Savannah Fields?
Lieutenant Wells (52:13):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
What item number?
Lieutenant Wells (52:16):
46.
Speaker 3 (52:17):
And how about Robert Fields?
Lieutenant Wells (52:25):
Yes, sir. I believe that's item number 50. Yes, sir. Item number 50.
Speaker 3 (52:26):
All right. I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 66, 67, and 68. For identification purposes, do you recognize 66?
Lieutenant Wells (52:36):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
What is 66?
Lieutenant Wells (52:39):
66, a manila envelope marked with our case number, item number 41.
Speaker 3 (52:45):
And whose standard is this?
Lieutenant Wells (52:47):
That is Ms. Lisa Hunt's.
Speaker 3 (52:49):
And what was done with the standard?
Lieutenant Wells (52:52):
They were submitted to the crime lab.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
Move to introduce 66.
Judge (52:55):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (52:56):
No, sir.
Judge (52:57):
The State's Exhibit 66 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
67?
Lieutenant Wells (53:02):
67 is another manila envelope marked with our case number, item number 46.
Speaker 3 (53:07):
And what item are these?
Lieutenant Wells (53:13):
46 is the known standards from Savannah Fields.
Speaker 3 (53:17):
And what were done with these?
Lieutenant Wells (53:17):
They were submitted through the crime lab.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
Move to introduce 67.
Judge (53:20):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (53:21):
No, sir.
Judge (53:22):
State's Exhibit 67 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 3 (53:24):
Then 68?
Lieutenant Wells (53:26):
68 is another manila envelope marked with our case number, item number 50. That's the known standard swabs from Mr. Robert Fields, and they too were submitted through the crime lab.
Speaker 3 (53:35):
And move to introduce 68.
Judge (53:35):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (53:35):
No, sir.
Judge (53:35):
State's Exhibit 68 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 3 (55:08):
Lieutenant Wells, I'm going to take you to the belt, State's Exhibit 65, your item number 34. And was an MVAC done on this belt, that you know of?
Lieutenant Wells (55:22):
Yes, sir. It was.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
And what is an MVAC?
Lieutenant Wells (55:31):
An MVAC is basically a fancy little vacuum cleaner that uses the replaceable sample filters. The technician would take it and basically vacuums articles, trying to collect epithelial seals that are embedded then in that little filter, and then they remove the filter, and you submit the filters through the lab for testing.
Speaker 3 (55:53):
And do you know if an MVAC was done on State's Exhibit 65?
Lieutenant Wells (55:59):
Yes, sir. It was.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
And who was that done by?
Lieutenant Wells (56:03):
The Wellington Police Department.
Speaker 3 (56:04):
Okay. And who took it down there? Do you remember? Was it Detective Short?
Lieutenant Wells (56:12):
I believe Detective Short. I know he brought it back.
Speaker 3 (56:15):
Okay. And what item number was the MVAC?
Lieutenant Wells (56:17):
The MVAC filter itself, would've been the item number, it's number 34A.
Speaker 3 (56:23):
I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 69. For identification purposes, do you recognize State's Exhibit 69?
Lieutenant Wells (56:33):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (56:33):
And what is 69?
Lieutenant Wells (56:35):
It's the paper bag marked with the agency information for both Wellington PD and ours, marked as item 34-A.
Speaker 3 (56:46):
And what was done with this MVAC?
Lieutenant Wells (56:48):
It was submitted through the state crime lab.
Speaker 3 (56:50):
Move to introduce 69.
Judge (56:51):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (56:53):
No, sir.
Judge (56:53):
State's Exhibit 69 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 3 (57:42):
Lieutenant Wells, did you go out to 104 Blackwater Drive for a third time at all?
Lieutenant Wells (57:53):
No, sir.
Speaker 3 (57:54):
Okay. So you went out there on the 13th, seized items of interest, then the 17th seized items of interest, correct?
Lieutenant Wells (58:02):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (58:02):
Did you do any other processing of any scenes dealing with this case at that time?
Lieutenant Wells (58:09):
No, sir.
Speaker 3 (58:09):
Or after that? I don't have any further questions at this time, Judge.
Judge (58:19):
Cross-examination?
Mr. Britt (58:22):
Yes, sir.
(58:22)
Mr. Wells, how long have you served as the primary crime scene investigator for the Pender County Sheriff's Department?
Lieutenant Wells (58:50):
I wouldn't say the primary, sir, but I've been one since 1999.
Mr. Britt (58:55):
You've been to various trainings?
Lieutenant Wells (58:57):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (58:59):
As new techniques are created, you've had training on those? For example, with the influx of DNA, do you have a separate training on how to go about collecting possible samples of DNA, how you preserve it, how you package it to the lab?
Lieutenant Wells (59:24):
Yes, sir. That, and you use the standard manual printed by the lab itself.
Mr. Britt (59:31):
And so when you went to the Blackwater Drive residence on the 13th, had you already spoken with Detective Leatherwood?
Lieutenant Wells (59:46):
Yes, sir. I spoke with him on the phone.
Mr. Britt (59:48):
And Detective Leatherwood told you that this was a possible strangulation and a possible sexual assault?
Lieutenant Wells (59:55):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (59:58):
At that point, Paitin had not been declared dead, is that correct?
Lieutenant Wells (01:00:01):
That's correct.
Mr. Britt (01:00:03):
So really, it didn't start off as a murder investigation?
Lieutenant Wells (01:00:06):
No, sir. It didn't.
Mr. Britt (01:00:08):
Did Detective Leatherwood share with you his opinion of the ligature?
Lieutenant Wells (01:00:16):
No, sir. Not initially.
Mr. Britt (01:00:18):
He didn't tell you that he believed that it was a rope?
Lieutenant Wells (01:00:24):
No, sir. I remember him saying he believed the child had been strangled.
Mr. Britt (01:00:28):
Did he tell you that the dimensions were consistent with being a quarter of an inch wide?
Lieutenant Wells (01:00:38):
I don't remember him telling me that, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:00:41):
If he had told you that he suspected the ligature to be a rope, would you have collected anything resembling a rope?
Lieutenant Wells (01:00:54):
If we had found rope, yes, sir, we would have.
Mr. Britt (01:00:58):
And if he had told you that the ligature mark was approximately a quarter of an inch wide, would you have looked for items similar in size to that?
Lieutenant Wells (01:01:14):
Well, yes, sir, you would. You would've also probably looked for something that could have been smaller.
Mr. Britt (01:01:23):
In your opinion, was it important to have known that information when you were conducting your search on the 13th?
Lieutenant Wells (01:01:30):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:01:34):
When you went back on the 17th, had Detective Leatherwood provided you with any of that type of information?
Lieutenant Wells (01:01:46):
Yes, sir. I'm sure we did speak about it after that because we had more information at that time from the examination.
Mr. Britt (01:01:54):
That required you to apply for a new search warrant?
Lieutenant Wells (01:01:59):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:02:14):
You described this house yesterday as being messy?
Lieutenant Wells (01:02:20):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:02:22):
Would cluttered be a good description?
Lieutenant Wells (01:02:26):
That would be one description, yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:02:30):
You also said it was dirty?
Lieutenant Wells (01:02:32):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:02:36):
And that was in all the rooms throughout the house?
Lieutenant Wells (01:02:41):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:02:42):
Kitchen, living room, bedrooms, master bedroom, bathrooms?
Lieutenant Wells (01:02:49):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:02:49):
Laundry room consistently is cluttered and messy?
Lieutenant Wells (01:02:54):
It did to me, yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:02:55):
Did that make it a more difficult scene to search?
Lieutenant Wells (01:03:02):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:03:03):
Was that because there was just so much stuff in the house?
Lieutenant Wells (01:03:11):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:03:18):
And you primarily focused on the living room, the bedroom that was identified as being the room where David slept, the northeast bedroom?
Lieutenant Wells (01:03:30):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:03:31):
How about the master bedroom?
Lieutenant Wells (01:03:35):
We did look in there, yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:03:36):
Did you concentrate a search there?
Lieutenant Wells (01:03:38):
No, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:03:41):
What about the third bedroom? Did you concentrate a search there?
Lieutenant Wells (01:03:47):
I would say not as much as the other bedroom, the northeast bedroom or the living room, no.
Mr. Britt (01:03:54):
The bathroom, not the master bath, but the secondary bath, was it actually in working condition?
Lieutenant Wells (01:04:03):
It did not appear to be. No, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:04:11):
And when you say it did not appear to be, was there water in the toilet?
Lieutenant Wells (01:04:14):
I don't remember if there was water in there or not, Mr. Britt.
Mr. Britt (01:04:23):
Okay. Did you turn on the faucets to see if there was water running there?
Lieutenant Wells (01:04:26):
No, sir. I didn't.
Mr. Britt (01:04:29):
Okay. In your observation, there wasn't any indication that someone had gone in there and possibly washed their hands or washed something off?
Lieutenant Wells (01:04:36):
No, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:04:36):
There wasn't droplets of water still in the sink?
Lieutenant Wells (01:04:41):
No, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:04:52):
The various cheek swabs that you collected, the first set came from David Prevatte?
Lieutenant Wells (01:05:02):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:05:03):
Second set came from Dale Hunt?
Lieutenant Wells (01:05:05):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:05:05):
And were they done at the hospital?
Lieutenant Wells (01:05:09):
No, sir. They were done when they arrived on scene that morning, November the 13th.
Mr. Britt (01:05:14):
And you did those?
Lieutenant Wells (01:05:16):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:05:25):
And then later, you got another set of cheek swabs from David?
Lieutenant Wells (01:05:30):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:05:30):
And that was on the 14th?
Lieutenant Wells (01:05:32):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:05:33):
Why did you believe it was necessary to get a second set of swabs from David?
Lieutenant Wells (01:05:39):
He had come in agreeing to be talked to Detective Leatherwood, and he agreed to allow us to collect those items.
Mr. Britt (01:05:47):
Was there anything wrong with the first set, to your knowledge?
Lieutenant Wells (01:05:51):
No, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:05:54):
You also collected nail clippings and scrapes from underneath the nails? Did you do that or did Detective Leatherwood do that?
Lieutenant Wells (01:06:05):
No, sir. I did the scrapings from him.
Mr. Britt (01:06:08):
And can you explain to the jury the purpose in clipping the nails, and then you clip before or after you scraped?
Lieutenant Wells (01:06:18):
Ordinarily, you would scrape first and then you'll clip nails. When Mr. Prevatte showed up on the next day, the 14th, his nails actually looked like they had already been cut, so I was only able to do the scrapings from them, not actually the clippings.
Mr. Britt (01:06:43):
And those were placed in envelopes, sealed, maintained in the chain of custody. Were they eventually sent to the lab?
Lieutenant Wells (01:06:52):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:07:04):
And what is the purpose in collecting the nails, collecting the scrapings? Are you looking for evidence underneath the nail?
Lieutenant Wells (01:07:13):
Yes, sir. The idea is if two people have been in contact or had any kind of physical altercation, the parties that have nails that are long enough, you may end up scratching the skin of the other person, or getting a fluid or something embedded under them. And if you can locate that, that can actually show that they were in actual physical contact.
Mr. Britt (01:07:41):
Okay. And then on the 15th of November, you received certain items from Detective Leatherwood, that being Paitin's nail clippings?
Lieutenant Wells (01:07:54):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (01:07:55):
Were there scrapings as well?
Lieutenant Wells (01:07:55):
Just a second.
Mr. Wells (01:08:10):
... it indicates on here, Mr. Britt, it just says nail clippings from the child, both of her hands.
Attorney Britt (01:08:16):
Okay. And ...
Mr. Wells (01:08:18):
And a blanket.
Attorney Britt (01:08:19):
Was that Detective Leatherwood who collected those?
Mr. Wells (01:08:22):
Yes, sir. From the hospital.
Attorney Britt (01:08:26):
And then you also received the pink blanket from Lisa Martin?
Mr. Wells (01:08:31):
Yes, sir. Detective Leatherwood received it from her and told me that's where it came from.
Attorney Britt (01:08:36):
Was it already in a paper bag?
Mr. Wells (01:08:40):
He had it in a paper bag when he handed it to me.
Attorney Britt (01:08:42):
Was it sealed?
Mr. Wells (01:08:47):
I'm not sure if it was sealed at that point. It was sealed when I got it.
Attorney Britt (01:08:51):
Did you pull the blanket out of the bag to examine it?
Mr. Wells (01:08:54):
No, sir. I didn't.
Attorney Britt (01:09:01):
So as whether there was any type of evidence on the blanket, you didn't look at it when you initially received it, but you sent that to the lab as well?
Mr. Wells (01:09:13):
Yes. It was later sent to the lab.
Attorney Britt (01:09:22):
And you applied for a second search warrant on November the 17th?
Mr. Wells (01:09:27):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:09:29):
You said some items had been moved around. Do you recall specifically what you thought had been moved?
Mr. Wells (01:09:38):
I remember that the ketchup bottle that was on top of the mattress in that southeast corner bedroom, it wasn't there. And that's the only thing that sticks out in my mind because it stood out when we were there to start with.
Attorney Britt (01:10:02):
And that's when you searched the red Kia sedan?
Mr. Wells (01:10:05):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:10:07):
And what were you looking for in that search?
Mr. Wells (01:10:14):
To see if there were any signs of anything in the car that may have been related, because we believe that was the vehicle that they had brought the child initially to the hospital with.
Attorney Britt (01:10:24):
And you said that you seized a pair of red as men's underwear?
Mr. Wells (01:10:31):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:10:32):
And that was on the floorboard of the front passenger side of the car?
Mr. Wells (01:10:37):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:10:39):
That's the only item you seized from the car?
Mr. Wells (01:10:41):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:10:43):
And you submitted it to the lab?
Mr. Wells (01:10:46):
Yes, sir. I believe so.
Attorney Britt (01:10:47):
Did you attempt to identify who it belonged to?
Mr. Wells (01:10:53):
I did not. I believe it was later determined that Mr. Hunt advised they were his, but I don't know whose they were.
Attorney Britt (01:11:01):
All right.
(01:11:04)
And on the 17th, you collected two sheets from the couch?
Mr. Wells (01:11:09):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:11:10):
Were they individually packaged or packaged together?
Mr. Wells (01:11:15):
They were individually.
Attorney Britt (01:11:18):
And you described those as being gray, white or ...
Mr. Wells (01:11:22):
Both of them, I described them as just gray and white. Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:11:25):
Was one like a top sheet and the other a fitted sheet?
Mr. Wells (01:11:31):
I don't recall, Mr. Britt.
Judge (01:11:34):
Sir, if I can get you to speak louder into the microphone.
Mr. Wells (01:11:39):
Yes, sir.
Judge (01:11:40):
Thank you.
Attorney Britt (01:11:41):
Did you examine those before sending them to the lab?
Mr. Wells (01:11:44):
No, sir. I didn't.
Attorney Britt (01:11:54):
And was it on the 17th that you seized the Christmas lights?
Mr. Wells (01:11:59):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:12:00):
And they were on the headboard in the northeast bedroom?
Mr. Wells (01:12:02):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:12:04):
I believe you testified, excuse me. Did you testify that they appeared to be attached to the headboard?
Mr. Wells (01:12:13):
They looked like they were wrapped around the headboard, like they had been put there for decoration or something at some point in time.
Attorney Britt (01:12:23):
Okay. Like on each side of the headboard?
Mr. Wells (01:12:26):
No, sir. They were hanging from one post.
Attorney Britt (01:12:27):
From one post.
Mr. Wells (01:12:28):
I don't know if they were initially strung between the headboards or not.
Attorney Britt (01:12:32):
And they were submitted to the lab?
Mr. Wells (01:12:34):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:12:35):
Do you see is three articles of clothing on the 17th, the hung derby top, the blue pony top, and a purple top?
Mr. Wells (01:12:53):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:12:56):
And were they in that northeast bedroom?
Mr. Wells (01:12:57):
Yes, sir. They were.
Attorney Britt (01:12:59):
So there were both children's clothes in there and clothes that belonged to David and perhaps Mr. Hunt?
Mr. Wells (01:13:09):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:13:15):
The item number 61, the nylon bracelet, you said it was found inside of a vehicle in the yard?
Mr. Wells (01:13:26):
Yes, sir. Ms. Hunt actually is the one that pointed it out. She saw it and pointed it out to us. It seemed unusual, so we collected it.
Attorney Britt (01:13:34):
Where was that vehicle? Was it in the backyard, side yard, front yard?
Mr. Wells (01:13:39):
If you're looking at the house, it was on the right side and the yard on the west end of the house.
Attorney Britt (01:13:56):
You also see the pillow from the couch, item 31?
Mr. Wells (01:14:02):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:14:04):
Was that submitted to the lab?
Mr. Wells (01:14:07):
The cushion section was not, but the pillowcase was separated from it and that was it submitted to the lab.
Attorney Britt (01:14:13):
And that's item 63, oh, excuse me, your item 31A?
Mr. Wells (01:14:19):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:14:20):
Were they initially packaged together?
Mr. Wells (01:14:23):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:14:25):
So they were separated where? By you, back in the department or at the lab?
Mr. Wells (01:14:30):
They were separated by me at the department.
Attorney Britt (01:14:42):
So when you initially seized them, you put them both into one paper bag?
Mr. Wells (01:14:47):
Yes, sir. It was picked up like they were together, like you'd ordinarily see them and placed in the bag.
Attorney Britt (01:15:01):
You had seen the hot glue gun on the 13th, but did not seize it?
Mr. Wells (01:15:10):
I don't specifically remember seeing it there on the 13th, Mr., but when we went back on 17th, we noticed it then and that's when it was collected.
Attorney Britt (01:15:18):
And at that point, that time on 17th, you seized it?
Mr. Wells (01:15:21):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:15:26):
After you seized the glue gun, you didn't take any other suspected ligatures from inside the residence?
Mr. Wells (01:15:41):
No, sir. That day was just the glue gun and the set of Christmas lights.
Attorney Britt (01:15:46):
And is there only one belt or is there two? Are there two belts?
Mr. Wells (01:15:53):
Just wearing one belt.
Attorney Britt (01:15:54):
One belt. You received that from Haley Fawcett?
Mr. Wells (01:15:59):
Yes, sir. Detective Leatherwood did and I got it from him.
Attorney Britt (01:16:05):
And was that treated as if it was a potential ligature?
Mr. Wells (01:16:12):
I don't know what test the lab performed on it. It was packaged as if it could be any case. Either case, it would've been the same.
Attorney Britt (01:16:23):
Okay. But it was submitted to the lab?
Mr. Wells (01:16:24):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:16:30):
I believe Mr. Hunt had told or he testified that there were other drop cords and extension cords throughout the house.
Mr. Wells (01:16:41):
I wasn't present for Mr. Hunt, but there were some other cords and stuff in the house, yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:16:46):
Let's talk about the inside of this house. You came in the front door?
Mr. Wells (01:16:51):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:16:52):
There were no back steps?
Mr. Wells (01:16:54):
No, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:16:54):
So really the only way to in and out of the house was through the front door, unless you opened the back door and jumped?
Mr. Wells (01:17:01):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:17:02):
And that was at a height almost as tall as you are?
Mr. Wells (01:17:06):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:17:11):
Do you recall if that back door was locked or unlocked?
Mr. Wells (01:17:15):
When we checked that on the 13th, it was locked.
Attorney Britt (01:17:19):
Okay. So you walk into the home and you walk into a little area that, I don't want to call it a ... It's not a hallway, but is there an area just inside the door and then to the right is the kitchen?
Mr. Wells (01:17:44):
I reckon you could describe it as a foyer.
Attorney Britt (01:17:45):
Okay.
Mr. Wells (01:17:46):
It was not designed architecturally as a foyer. It's because of the items that were packed up or stacked besides you on the left, it kind of creates that little area. But when you step in, maybe one step and you're looking straight to the right into the kitchen.
Attorney Britt (01:18:01):
And the kitchen, is it open to the living room?
Mr. Wells (01:18:08):
Yes, sir. There's no door. There's just a doorway.
Attorney Britt (01:18:12):
There's a door. There's a doorway closer to the front door.
Mr. Wells (01:18:18):
There's only one doorway and it's immediately to the right of the front door as you come in, and that's the only separation between the kitchen and the living room.
Attorney Britt (01:18:29):
Okay. Is there a wall?
Mr. Wells (01:18:32):
On the other side of the doorway, yes, sir. That's what the TV was making up against.
Attorney Britt (01:18:36):
So there's a wall as you walk into the living room. Is it to your right?
Mr. Wells (01:18:44):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:18:45):
And does that wall then join a second wall?
Mr. Wells (01:18:52):
At the corner of the kitchen, it would join the back wall of the kitchen.
Attorney Britt (01:18:57):
Where was the television located?
Mr. Wells (01:19:00):
In the living room, backed up against that wall that divides the living room from the kitchen.
Attorney Britt (01:19:07):
Was the TV going when you got there?
Mr. Wells (01:19:10):
I believe so. Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:19:12):
Were there any other lights on inside the living room other than the TV, possibly?
Mr. Wells (01:19:23):
I believe there was a ceiling fan, but I don't believe the light was on.
Attorney Britt (01:19:31):
And then from the living room area, you make your way to the location of the bedrooms, the bathtub. There are two bedrooms that are ... Are they to your right when you walk into the living room?
Mr. Wells (01:19:50):
Yes, sir. If you come in the front door, if you go straight ahead past the television, to the right in there is the master bedroom and the master bath. If you turn left before you get there, you go across the living room and the other end of the house are the other two bedrooms and the rear hallway where the laundry and that other bathroom are at, leading to the back door.
Attorney Britt (01:20:11):
Okay.
(01:20:15)
And there was a lot of stuff to kind of just take in when you went in there. I mean, there's stuff everywhere.
Mr. Wells (01:20:23):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:20:25):
Clothes, toys, the shop vac, that was actually in the bedroom, wasn't it?
Mr. Wells (01:20:33):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:20:36):
And did you start combing through all of the items or were you looking for ones that might contain evidentiary value?
Mr. Wells (01:20:48):
Initially, Mr. Britt, we went in trying to determine if there was any indication of where the act may have taken place at. We did not turn over every single piece of clothing. If the articles were stacked together and they looked like they were where they were supposed to be and had not been recently moved or messed with, we tried to note it, took photographs and stuff of it, but we didn't search under every single little piece of everything there.
Attorney Britt (01:21:14):
Was the information shared with you as to who slept where?
Mr. Wells (01:21:21):
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:21:24):
So in the northeast bedroom, did you learn that was David's room?
Mr. Wells (01:21:32):
Yes. We were told that's where he was staying and the two children were sleeping on the couch.
Attorney Britt (01:21:40):
Okay. And did anyone ever tell you the position of the children when they slept there?
Mr. Wells (01:21:48):
Not directly to me. I learned through conversation with Detective Leatherwood and Detective Kleiner that they indicated, I believe, Paitin would've slept on the east wall side and Savannah would've been on the north wall side on the couch ordinarily.
Attorney Britt (01:22:08):
Did you seize either of those sections of the south?
Mr. Wells (01:22:15):
No, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:22:26):
And where Savannah, the side where Savannah indicated was ... Not Savannah, excuse me, where Paitin, it was indicated she slept, was that where the bookcase backed up to that section?
Mr. Wells (01:22:40):
No, sir. That's the bookcase area that separated the front door from the north side edge of the couch. They both backed up on the north wall.
Attorney Britt (01:22:50):
May I approach?
Judge (01:22:50):
You may.
Attorney Britt (01:24:36):
Are they in the back? Oh, here they are.
(01:24:36)
Mr. Wells, let me show what's been marked as State's Exhibit 24. Do you recognize that photograph?
Mr. Wells (01:24:46):
Yes, sir. I do.
Attorney Britt (01:24:47):
What do you recognize that photograph to be of?
Mr. Wells (01:24:50):
It's the living room there at 104 Blackwater Drive.
Attorney Britt (01:24:54):
And were you present yesterday when Savannah Fields testified?
Mr. Wells (01:24:58):
No, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:24:58):
Okay. There's some letters that are written on that. That's not part of the original photograph, is it?
Mr. Wells (01:25:05):
No, sir. It's not.
Attorney Britt (01:25:26):
Are you able to see that?
Mr. Wells (01:25:27):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:25:29):
In the photograph marked State's Exhibit 24, there are three items that appear ... They're black in color. Can you tell us what they are?
Mr. Wells (01:25:43):
Are you referring to the couch sections?
Attorney Britt (01:25:46):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Wells (01:25:49):
Appears to be two couch sections and the ...
Attorney Britt (01:25:55):
Is it an Ottoman?
Mr. Wells (01:25:57):
Yeah, that's probably the best description of that piece sitting in front of them. Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:26:01):
Okay.
(01:26:01)
And you see in this photograph that there's a gray pillow and a white pillow on where I'm pointing towards?
Mr. Wells (01:26:17):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:26:20):
There's an F and there's an S that's been written there and there's like an X mark?
Mr. Wells (01:26:25):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:26:28):
Then on the other side, there is a white pillow that has a P, and that may be an F, I'm not sure, but then there's what appears to be a white article that's draped off of the sofa?
Mr. Wells (01:26:46):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:26:47):
Is that one of the sheets? Do you know?
Mr. Wells (01:26:52):
It could be. I don't know for sure based on the picture, but yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:26:56):
Okay. And then there's a P and an F and an X mark there.
Mr. Wells (01:26:59):
Right.
Attorney Britt (01:27:03):
Those, I will tell you, were made by Savannah Fields when she testified yesterday.
Mr. Wells (01:27:09):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:27:10):
As to the section she was on and the section that Paitin was on.
Mr. Wells (01:27:14):
Okay.
Attorney Britt (01:27:17):
All right. This light brown item that's next to the section where Paitin has been identified, that's where she was asleep. What is that?
Mr. Wells (01:27:29):
That's a wall. No, that's what I would call or described as the bookcase area next to the front door.
Attorney Britt (01:27:38):
Okay. So this, the way this lines up, the living room is actually on the front of the house?
Mr. Wells (01:27:47):
Yes, sir.
Attorney Britt (01:27:48):
And so when you walk in from the front door, you have to pass by this bookshelf area?
Mr. Wells (01:27:55):
Yes, sir.
Judge (01:28:17):
All right. Let's go ahead and put a pause.
Attorney Britt (01:28:19):
All right. Thank you.
Judge (01:28:22):
Mr. Britt.
(01:28:22)
All right members of the jury, we're going to go ahead and take our mid-morning break. Close up your notebooks. Members of the jury, please do not discuss this case amongst yourselves. Do not discuss this case with anybody else. Do not have any contact with any of the parties, attorneys, or witnesses. Do not conduct any independent investigation or inquiry, and do not post online on any social media sites. So we'll go ahead and excuse you for about 15 minutes. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:28:52):
Thank you, Your Honor. Make sure you move towards the close. You'll leave those in the chair and ready to front row and back this way, please.
(01:28:54)
Jurors left the courtroom.
Judge (01:29:35):
Thank you, sir. Let the record reflect that the jury has exited the courtroom.
(01:29:39)
Mr. Britt, for the purposes of the record, exhibit 24, those marks were made by Lisa Hunt. Exhibit 34, and the marks on 34, were made by Savannah. I think when the jury comes back, I may just give a quick correction to the jury so they understand.
Attorney Britt (01:30:02):
I apologize.
Judge (01:30:03):
Okay. Anything we need to discuss, Mr. Britt, before we break?
Attorney Britt (01:30:06):
No, sir.
Judge (01:30:07):
Mr. Smith?
Mr. Smith (01:30:08):
No, Your Honor.
Judge (01:30:09):
All right, sir, you may step down. We'll be at ease for the next 15 minutes.
Judge (01:45:58):
If you can go ahead and scoot up as close as you can to that microphone so that it'll pick you up.
(01:46:06)
You ready to proceed, Mr. Britt?
Luther Britt (01:46:07):
[inaudible 01:46:08].
Judge (01:48:38):
Okay.
(01:48:38)
You ready now, Mr. Britt?
Luther Britt (01:48:39):
Yes, sir.
Judge (01:48:41):
Anything we need to discuss, Mr. Britt?
Luther Britt (01:48:43):
No, sir.
Judge (01:48:43):
[inaudible 01:48:44]?
Speaker 5 (01:48:43):
No.
Judge (01:48:45):
All right. Let's bring the jury back in.
Speaker 6 (01:48:47):
Bringing the jury. Jury's seated, Your Honor.
Judge (01:49:32):
Thank you, sir. Let the record reflect that the jury has reentered the courtroom. Members of the jury, just by way of clarification, Exhibit 24 that was just shown by Mr. Britt. The marks on exhibit 24 were made by Lisa Hunt and not Savannah Fields. Mr. Britt, you may continue.
Luther Britt (01:49:50):
Thank you, Your Honor.
(01:49:50)
Mr. Wells, I'm going to show you again State's Exhibit 24, and I'm going to show you also State's Exhibit 34. Those are very similar photographs, aren't they?
Daniel Wells (01:50:04):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (01:50:06):
Is 34 the same photograph as 24?
Daniel Wells (01:50:10):
It looks to be a copy of the same photograph.
Luther Britt (01:50:12):
The lettering that was noted on 24 has also been made on 34?
Daniel Wells (01:50:20):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (01:50:37):
Okay.
(01:50:37)
Mr. Wells, I placed State's Exhibit 34 on the projector. 34 is a photograph of the living room?
Daniel Wells (01:50:47):
Yes, sir. It is.
Luther Britt (01:50:49):
It may in fact be a identical copy to 24.
Daniel Wells (01:50:54):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (01:50:55):
It likewise has letters that appear to have been made on the photograph, but not on the original.
Daniel Wells (01:51:03):
Correct.
Luther Britt (01:51:06):
And again, in 34, you have beginning in the corner of the room, you have what appears to be an S on the white pillow. And then on the white pillow closest to what I'm going to call the bookshelf in the air conditioner, there's a P that's written on there.
Daniel Wells (01:51:33):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (01:54:03):
Mr. Wells, when you first arrived on the 13th, you learned that there were dogs in the house?
Daniel Wells (01:54:10):
Yes, sir. You could hear one of them barking.
Luther Britt (01:54:13):
And rather than call, I guess animal control, you wanted to wait until someone from the house, the resident of the house got back to possibly remove those animals?
Daniel Wells (01:54:28):
Yes. We knew they were waiting for the key as well, and we figured there was no need to call animal control if the folks could control the dog themselves.
Luther Britt (01:54:39):
Okay. And so there were three dogs, correct?
Daniel Wells (01:54:44):
I don't recall how many dogs, but I know there was more than one, but I don't remember how many.
Luther Britt (01:54:48):
And during your search of the house, specifically the living room, you didn't find any dog collar dog leashes?
Daniel Wells (01:55:07):
No, sir. I don't remember seeing any of those.
Luther Britt (01:55:16):
What about in either of the bedrooms?
Daniel Wells (01:55:16):
I don't remember seeing any, sir. No, sir.
Luther Britt (01:55:46):
And in the northeast bedroom, you actually seized a number of items?
Daniel Wells (01:55:54):
Yes, sir. We did.
Luther Britt (01:55:57):
You seized the red earbuds that have been marked as... A photograph of the red earbuds has been marked as an item of evidence, is that correct?
Daniel Wells (01:56:42):
I believe so. Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (01:56:43):
And that same photograph contains other telephone charging cords?
Daniel Wells (01:56:48):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (01:56:49):
It depicts the Dirt Devil Miniature Vacuum Cleaner?
Daniel Wells (01:57:07):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (01:57:08):
And it also had a cord that was attached to it?
Daniel Wells (01:57:11):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (01:57:13):
That wasn't a cord that you could pull out of the base of it without making it useless?
Daniel Wells (01:57:19):
No, sir. It was permanently attached due to the appliance.
Luther Britt (01:57:24):
And these items were all found either on the floor in the northeast bedroom or they were on the nightstand beside the bed?
Daniel Wells (01:57:37):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (01:57:39):
And the red earbuds that were positioned, that were you located on the nightstand, they were balled up to a certain extent?
Daniel Wells (01:57:57):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (01:57:58):
Was there another cord lying on top of it?
Daniel Wells (01:58:00):
I would honestly have to look at that photograph, Mr. Britt, to tell you for sure. They were laying some right there with it, but I don't think there was one or not.
Luther Britt (01:58:12):
May I approach?
Judge (01:58:13):
You may.
Luther Britt (01:58:13):
May I refer to my notes?
Judge (01:58:13):
You may.
Luther Britt (01:59:42):
Mr. Wells, I'm going to ask you to step down and approach the screen, please.
Daniel Wells (01:59:56):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (01:59:57):
I'm going to hand you this pointer. If you'll stand to the right of the screen. This is a photograph from the northeast bedroom?
Daniel Wells (02:00:08):
Yes, sir. It is.
Luther Britt (02:00:09):
It shows, among other things, it shows the various charging cords that you collected?
Daniel Wells (02:00:16):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:00:17):
And on what appears to be camouflaged on top of the nightstand, you see the red earbuds?
Daniel Wells (02:00:29):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:00:30):
And is there another item that was also located right there?
Daniel Wells (02:00:34):
Yes, sir. It's the end of the... I believe it's that TR10 charging cord going in here and circles around and is laying across the head zone.
Luther Britt (02:00:46):
Okay. But the red earbuds appear to be bunched up, balled up?
Daniel Wells (02:00:49):
Yes, sir. They do.
Luther Britt (02:00:51):
And what is the white item immediately to the left?
Daniel Wells (02:00:59):
Here?
Luther Britt (02:01:00):
Yes.
Daniel Wells (02:01:01):
It appears to be a shirt.
Luther Britt (02:01:04):
And on top of it, is that a pillow?
Daniel Wells (02:01:06):
Up here, I believe it was a bag, a paper bag.
Luther Britt (02:01:14):
Okay. But from there, you seized only the charging cord, the can with the red earbuds, and the ones that were on the floor?
Daniel Wells (02:01:23):
Yes, sir. Those cords.
Luther Britt (02:01:24):
And the vacuum cleaner, a portion of it is sticking out from underneath the bedside panel?
Daniel Wells (02:01:31):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:01:32):
And that's basically almost in the center of the picture?
Daniel Wells (02:01:35):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:01:35):
Okay. Were there any other cords other than the lights that you talked about, the Christmas lights that you can see partially in this photograph, were there any other cords that you seized from this area?
Daniel Wells (02:01:48):
No, sir.
Luther Britt (02:01:49):
Any other cords that you seized from in the living room?
Daniel Wells (02:01:52):
The living room was just the hot glue gun with that attached cord.
Luther Britt (02:01:58):
And it was in a box toward the end?
Daniel Wells (02:02:01):
Yes, sir. If you step right around that corner through this doorway, it would've been actually through the wall on the backside of that wall.
Luther Britt (02:02:08):
How about the master bedroom?
Daniel Wells (02:02:10):
No, sir. We didn't seize anything there.
Luther Britt (02:02:12):
Either the bath?
Daniel Wells (02:02:14):
No, sir.
Luther Britt (02:02:14):
The laundry room?
Daniel Wells (02:02:16):
No, sir.
Luther Britt (02:02:16):
Thank you. You may return. On the 13th of November, Mr. Wells, do you know exactly or approximately how long you were at this house for purposes of conducting this search?
Daniel Wells (02:03:06):
Probably about two hours. I don't remember exactly how long.
Luther Britt (02:03:11):
And on the 17th when you returned with the second search warrant, approximately how long were you there?
Daniel Wells (02:03:23):
I don't know the exact times, but it probably would've been around an hour, two hours. We weren't looking as for as many items then as we were the first time, sir.
Luther Britt (02:03:33):
And on the 17th, the items that you collected were a blanket, the pink blanket?
Daniel Wells (02:03:43):
On the 17th?
Luther Britt (02:03:49):
Wasn't there a pink blanket that was recovered?
Daniel Wells (02:03:52):
The pink blanket, I believe, is the one that Ms. Hunt give Detective Leatherwood and he brought to me, but that was not at the search warrant.
Luther Britt (02:04:01):
That was not pursuant to that search?
Daniel Wells (02:04:03):
No, sir.
Luther Britt (02:04:17):
Okay.
(02:04:18)
On the 15th of November when you went back, or actually 15th, you received Paitin's nail clippings?
Daniel Wells (02:04:27):
Yes, but that's when Detective Leatherwood brought me those and that blanket.
Luther Britt (02:04:30):
And the blanket, okay. On the 17th, you searched the car?
Daniel Wells (02:04:36):
Yes, sir. That was that Kia sedan in the front yard.
Luther Britt (02:04:40):
The only thing seized from inside the car was a pair of red men's underwear?
Daniel Wells (02:04:44):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:04:47):
And then from inside the residence, you seized two sheets from the couch?
Daniel Wells (02:04:56):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:04:56):
Were they located at the same spot on the couch or was one on one side where Paitin was and one on the other where Savannah was?
Daniel Wells (02:05:08):
They weren't laying on top of each other. They were pretty close to each other. I don't remember exactly where on the couch.
Luther Britt (02:05:13):
And then that's when you seized the Christmas lights, is that correct?
Daniel Wells (02:05:20):
Yes, sir. It is.
Luther Britt (02:05:22):
The home derby top, the blue pony top, and the purple top?
Daniel Wells (02:05:28):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:05:30):
Were they in the living room or were they in the northeast bedroom?
Daniel Wells (02:05:35):
All three of the children's shirts were in that northeast bedroom.
Luther Britt (02:05:44):
Were they in a pile of clothes on the floor? Were they in a laundry basket? Were they on the bed? Were they on a chair?
Daniel Wells (02:05:55):
Mr. Britt, without referring again to a photograph when we went in, honestly, if I remember right, they were right around the bed or might have been on the edge of the floor next to the bed. They weren't in the dresser or away from the bed area.
Luther Britt (02:06:12):
Okay. And then you also, on the 17th, received various swabs from individuals?
Daniel Wells (02:06:35):
17th. Let's see. I'm sorry, excuse me just a moment.
Luther Britt (02:06:35):
It would be, what is your item? 33, 35, 37, and 38.
Daniel Wells (02:06:44):
Those were received later. Just a second. I'll take one. 33, Mr. Sykes's swabs were collected by Sergeant Leatherwood on the 21st. 34, the belt was from Sergeant Leatherwood on the 21st.
Luther Britt (02:07:08):
34, was that the belt?
Daniel Wells (02:07:13):
Yes, sir. The other swabs... Just a second to get to that page. The swabs from Ms. Haley Fawcett were collected on the 27th by Sergeant Leatherwood and turned into me. The swabs from Mr. Larry Huggins were collected by Sergeant Kleinert on the 28th and turned into me. Was there another set of swabs you were inquiring about, sir?
Luther Britt (02:07:50):
Let me just ask, the various individuals from whom these swabs were taken, for example, who is Jamie Sykes, if you know?
Daniel Wells (02:08:01):
He was an acquaintance of the defendant.
Luther Britt (02:08:04):
Haley Fawcett, was that David's girlfriend?
Daniel Wells (02:08:08):
I believe so.
Luther Britt (02:08:10):
Melissa Brown?
Daniel Wells (02:08:13):
I am not sure what her relationship is.
Luther Britt (02:08:15):
Michael Hall?
Daniel Wells (02:08:17):
Or his.
Luther Britt (02:08:17):
And these swabs, they were submitted to the lab?
Daniel Wells (02:08:33):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:08:34):
Now, did you submit those or... Tell me the policy at the Pender County Sheriff's Office. Do you, as the evidence custodian and crime scene investigator, do you make the request of what kind of tests you want done on evidence, what evidence goes there, or is that done by the lead investigator?
Daniel Wells (02:08:56):
The lead investigator has the final say of what they want tested, at least in order, but I generally assist them. We're talking about it, okay, can we do this with the lab, or can the lab do this, that, or whichever they can do first, but the lead investigator does have the final say.
Luther Britt (02:09:15):
And do you transport the evidence from here in Burgaw to the state crime lab in Raleigh?
Daniel Wells (02:09:23):
Either I do or one of the other crime scene techs do. Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:09:26):
Do you recall whether you transported these items of evidence and submitted them to the lab in Raleigh?
Daniel Wells (02:09:35):
I can look each one of them up and tell you if you want me to exactly...
Luther Britt (02:09:41):
Yes, sir, please.
Daniel Wells (02:09:49):
33, Mr. Sykes's normal standards, they were taken to the lab by myself in March of 2018. The number 35, the standards from Ms. Fawcett, they were also taken to the lab by me on that same day. The 36, the ones from Mr. Huggins, they were taken by me to the lab on March 2021. 37, the ones from Ms. Brown, I took them to the lab on March of 2018. 38, the ones from Mr. Hall, I also took them in March of 2018. The ones from... 38B, Mr. Swenson. 41, Ms. Hunt. 42, Mr. White, which was a misprint. The ones from Ms. Fields, item 46, I took all those to the lab. And the ones from Mr. Fields, I also took to the lab. That was in March of 2022.
Luther Britt (02:11:15):
With respect to articles of clothing, you seized a pair of Dickies style work pants from the northeast bedroom?
Daniel Wells (02:11:26):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:11:27):
And you seized what appeared to be blue boxer shorts?
Daniel Wells (02:11:34):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:11:34):
In fact, the boxer shorts were lying on top of the work pants?
Daniel Wells (02:11:40):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:11:41):
And when you initially seized them, you seized them as one item?
Daniel Wells (02:11:46):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:11:46):
That means you put both of them in the same paper bag, sealed them, and then at some point they were separated?
Daniel Wells (02:11:55):
Yes, sir. They were.
Luther Britt (02:11:57):
Did you separate them or did the lab?
Daniel Wells (02:11:59):
I did.
Luther Britt (02:12:00):
Do you know what cross-contamination is?
Daniel Wells (02:12:04):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:12:05):
Can you explain cross-contamination to the jury?
Daniel Wells (02:12:08):
Cross-contamination is if you have any physical people, persons, or objects that may have a substance or DNA, skin cells or anything like that on them. If this article has it on it and this article has it on it, if you rub them together enough, you can get transfer. That can cross-contaminate articles.
Luther Britt (02:12:39):
And the purpose of sealing them individually is to maintain the quality, potentially the quantity of any evidence that may be found on this clothes?
Daniel Wells (02:12:52):
Yes, sir.
Luther Britt (02:12:52):
The risk of packaging together is you can get cross- contamination, correct?
Daniel Wells (02:13:03):
Yes, sir. If you found articles that were separate from each other initially, you don't want to put them together and then re-separate them.
Luther Britt (02:13:10):
The two bed sheets that you seized from the couch in the home, were they packaged as one or were they packaged as separate?
Daniel Wells (02:13:27):
They were packaged separately.
Luther Britt (02:13:39):
Were the cords, the charging cords, the earbuds, were they all submitted in one package?
Daniel Wells (02:13:53):
The ones that we showed here, the ones that have already been entered, they were packaged separately in the individual envelopes, but the individual envelopes would've been packaged together in one larger envelope.
Luther Britt (02:14:06):
So when you packaged them separately, was that at the scene or was that back at the sheriff's office?
Daniel Wells (02:14:11):
No, sir. That was at the scene.
Luther Britt (02:14:26):
The Dirt Devil Vacuum Cleaner, the little handheld vacuum cleaner, you did what is called an MVAC, or you had it done, an MVAC filter?
Daniel Wells (02:14:44):
The only thing that the MVAC analysis was done on was the belt that they got from Ms. Fawcett.
Luther Britt (02:14:50):
So you did not do one on the actual vacuum cleaner?
Daniel Wells (02:14:56):
No, sir.
Luther Britt (02:15:00):
To your knowledge, were the contents of that dumped and examined?
Daniel Wells (02:15:05):
The vacuum cleaner?
Luther Britt (02:15:06):
Yes.
Daniel Wells (02:15:06):
No, sir.
Luther Britt (02:15:08):
So the belt that you received from Ms. Fawcett, which is State's Exhibit 69, that's what the MVAC examination was?
Daniel Wells (02:15:23):
Yes, sir. That was the only item that an MVAC was performed on.
Luther Britt (02:15:25):
And that requires basically the filter... Back up. The MVAC is done by a separate machine?
Daniel Wells (02:15:47):
Yes, sir. It's its own piece of equipment.
Luther Britt (02:15:50):
Okay. And then there's a filter that's in that or is the filter placed on the item that's going to be searched?
Daniel Wells (02:16:00):
There's two or three different models, depending on what company manufactures that-
Lieutenant Wells (02:16:00):
There's like two or three different models, depending on what company manufactures that thing. The ones that I'm familiar with have a self-contained filter. You change it between articles so there is no cross-contamination, there's no possibility that it was designed that way. And for each individual article that you're going to do that, performing a test on, they are supposed to swap out the filters and mark down exactly where they come from.
Mr. Britt (02:16:25):
Okay. So does it act somewhat like a separate vacuum cleaner? How does it draw the material through the filter?
Lieutenant Wells (02:16:38):
As far as I know, it is basically a vacuum cleaner. That's what it is. I've never actually run one of them. I've seen them, but I've never run one myself.
Mr. Britt (02:16:46):
And so you remove that filter after the test is run on one item, replace it with the new filter, second item, the third item. What do these filters actually look like? Are they paper like a coffee filter might be or is it cloth?
Lieutenant Wells (02:17:09):
The one I've seen through the packaging appears to be some form of membrane. I don't know if it's synthetic or cotton material or whatever it is. We'd have to look that up. If you've got one of those type of vacuum cleaners at home, the big ones with the little canisters, if you take it off and you dump it in the trash can when you full, it looks a lot like that except these are just a lot smaller.
Mr. Britt (02:17:31):
Okay. And that was done at the Wilmington Police Department?
Lieutenant Wells (02:17:35):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:17:36):
Did you make that request or did someone else make that request?
Lieutenant Wells (02:17:40):
Detective Short is the one that made that request.
Mr. Britt (02:17:42):
So when was that done that Detective Short made the request?
Lieutenant Wells (02:17:47):
It was taken to Wilmington PD in March of 2021.
Mr. Britt (02:18:00):
And do you know when it was returned to your possession?
Lieutenant Wells (02:18:08):
The next day.
Mr. Britt (02:18:09):
So it's a one-day operation?
Lieutenant Wells (02:18:11):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:18:29):
You also had to submit items to... You were requested to submit items to a private lab?
Lieutenant Wells (02:18:39):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:18:40):
When was that?
Lieutenant Wells (02:20:11):
Just a second. That was on June the 19th, 2021, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:20:18):
And you submitted items to the private lab. And was that the Bode, B-O-D-E?
Lieutenant Wells (02:20:28):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:20:30):
And when you submitted items to Bode for testing, the materials, some of these items were the same or were they all the same that had been sent to the state crime lab?
Lieutenant Wells (02:20:43):
Some of them were the same.
Mr. Britt (02:20:47):
So did everything go to the state crime lab first and then certain things went to Bode that had been tested by the state crime lab and was there also new material?
Lieutenant Wells (02:21:02):
The items from the MVAC were submitted and some of the other items were stuff that had already been through the lab.
Mr. Britt (02:21:18):
So was part of the purpose of submitting it to Bode, was that to retest?
Lieutenant Wells (02:21:27):
No, sir. I believe Bode does a different type of test.
Mr. Britt (02:22:10):
And when did you receive those items back from Bode? Give it a second, sir.
Lieutenant Wells (02:23:11):
Mr. Britt, I don't have that date in my notes, what date I got it back.
Mr. Britt (02:23:14):
The belt that you received from Haley Fawcett or that Detective Leatherwood gave you that he had received from Haley Fawcett, do you know whether that's a man's belt or a woman's belt?
Lieutenant Wells (02:23:51):
I don't know what it was. I reckon anybody could wear it.
Mr. Britt (02:24:30):
And the items that were submitted to the state crime lab for testing, was that for DNA testing only?
Lieutenant Wells (02:24:46):
The items that I know that we sent, yes. I knew that was the primary thing they were looking for.
Mr. Britt (02:24:51):
And was there a sexual assault kit that had been completed at the hospital for Paitin that was submitted?
Lieutenant Wells (02:25:01):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:25:03):
Was there a suspect kit that was submitted?
Lieutenant Wells (02:25:09):
There were some samples from Mr. Prevatte that were taken, but it was not a standard kit.
Mr. Britt (02:25:14):
So there wasn't a full blown sexual assault search of Mr. Prevatte?
Lieutenant Wells (02:25:22):
No, sir. There were no-
Mr. Britt (02:25:22):
To your knowledge?
Lieutenant Wells (02:25:24):
No, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:25:25):
There was no head hair, no pubic hair. Was there a blood sample?
Lieutenant Wells (02:25:33):
No, sir. There was the known standard cheek swabs. There was the scrapings from his nails and a swabbing from his penis.
Mr. Britt (02:25:52):
You said there was a swabbing of his penis?
Lieutenant Wells (02:25:52):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:25:52):
When was that done?
Lieutenant Wells (02:25:52):
On the 14th.
Mr. Britt (02:25:52):
The next day?
Lieutenant Wells (02:25:58):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:26:15):
Was that done at the sheriff's office? Was it done like at the hospital?
Lieutenant Wells (02:26:22):
It was done at the sheriff's office.
Mr. Britt (02:26:33):
And were you the person responsible for doing that?
Lieutenant Wells (02:26:37):
I was there. Detective Brandenburg and I were both there when that was collected.
Mr. Britt (02:26:42):
And had either you or Detective Brandenburg... Let me ask you this. Did you ask David if he'd showered since the early morning hours of the 13th?
Lieutenant Wells (02:26:55):
I did not.
Mr. Britt (02:27:30):
Did you not think it was important to ask him in terms of by showering he could wash away evidence?
Lieutenant Wells (02:27:40):
At that time, Mr. Britt, whether he said yes or no, it wouldn't have made any difference. We would still have tried to collect the sample because he could have lied to us. So as long as he was willing to give a sample, we were going to collect it anyway.
Judge Jensen (02:27:53):
Could you put it on mute?
Mr. Smith (02:28:21):
Yes, Judge.
Judge Jensen (02:28:22):
Thank you.
Mr. Britt (02:28:24):
But the purpose of swabbing his penis, you were looking to see if there was any transfer. Well, the issue was, was it going to be a transfer of Paitin's DNA to David's skin, correct?
Lieutenant Wells (02:28:42):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:28:43):
And if he had showered, then any transfer of Paitin's DNA could have been, and probably had been washed away?
Lieutenant Wells (02:28:55):
It could have been, yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:28:58):
Did you ever collect Paitin's underwear from the hospital?
Lieutenant Wells (02:29:03):
I did not. No, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:29:04):
To your knowledge, did anyone?
Lieutenant Wells (02:29:08):
I don't believe so. I know they didn't because we did go back trying to get them and the hospital staff had already disposed of them before we were able to pick them up.
Mr. Britt (02:29:16):
So the hospital staff threw them away?
Lieutenant Wells (02:29:19):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:29:31):
And Paitin's underwear would've been an item that you would've wanted to take into your custody and had it examined for any type of transfer of bodily fluids?
Lieutenant Wells (02:29:44):
Yes, sir. It would.
Mr. Britt (02:29:47):
And because the hospital had disposed of them, they were never collected?
Judge Jensen (02:29:53):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:29:56):
And in terms of bodily fluids that could have been transferred, would've been blood?
Lieutenant Wells (02:30:04):
Possibly, yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:30:04):
Potentially semen?
Lieutenant Wells (02:30:06):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:30:10):
Potentially skin cells, touch DNA, that may not have been exact area that you'd want to touch for touch DNA, but that would include saliva?
Lieutenant Wells (02:30:23):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:30:34):
And so all of that potential evidence was lost?
Judge Jensen (02:30:38):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:30:39):
In fact, the underwear was the only article of clothing that she had on when she entered the emergency room here at Pender Memorial?
Lieutenant Wells (02:31:00):
I'm not sure. I don't know.
Mr. Britt (02:31:02):
That wasn't shared with you?
Lieutenant Wells (02:31:04):
No, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:31:32):
May I have just a moment?
Judge Jensen (02:31:33):
You may.
Mr. Britt (02:31:58):
Thank you. I don't have any other questions.
Judge Jensen (02:32:00):
Redirect?
Mr. Smith (02:32:01):
Just a few, Judge. Lieutenant Wells, I believe on cross-examination, he asked about ropes. Did you find any rope?
Lieutenant Wells (02:32:14):
No, sir.
Mr. Smith (02:32:14):
Did you see any rope?
Lieutenant Wells (02:32:14):
Sorry?
Mr. Smith (02:32:15):
Did you see any rope?
Lieutenant Wells (02:32:17):
I don't remember seeing any ropes.
Mr. Smith (02:32:20):
The pillow case, State's Exhibit 62, the tan pillow, and 63, the tan pillow case, when it was brought to you, who was it brought to you by?
Lieutenant Wells (02:32:37):
Sergeant Leatherwood.
Mr. Smith (02:32:37):
And was the pillowcase on the pillow?
Lieutenant Wells (02:32:45):
Yes, sir. It was.
Mr. Smith (02:32:47):
So it was already on there and then you just separated the two?
Lieutenant Wells (02:32:49):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Smith (02:32:52):
The boxers and the Dickie pants, as seen in the photograph, they were already touching each other, one inside the other, is that correct?
Lieutenant Wells (02:33:01):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Smith (02:33:03):
Is that why you bagged them up together, is because they were already together?
Lieutenant Wells (02:33:07):
Yes, sir. We just picked them directly up off the floor and set them right down into a bag.
Mr. Smith (02:33:14):
You allude in your direct and cross-examination that you focused on the northeast bedroom when you were looking for items. Based upon your training and experience, are sexual assaults and strangulations done out in front of people generally?
Lieutenant Wells (02:33:35):
No.
Mr. Smith (02:33:38):
So why didn't you focus on the master bedroom?
Lieutenant Wells (02:33:43):
Because both Mr. Hunt and Ms. Hunt had indicated that they were together, and if either one or the other, unless both of them had been acting in concert, we didn't feel like at that point in time that they represented the most likely theory of what happened.
Mr. Smith (02:33:58):
All right. Why didn't you focus on the sofa area?
Lieutenant Wells (02:34:02):
Because Ms. Hunt and told us that the other child was out there sleeping on the sofa beside Paitin.
Mr. Smith (02:34:06):
All right. And why did you focus on the northeast bedroom?
Lieutenant Wells (02:34:11):
Because it held what we believe could have been used as ligatures, and it also had a door that you could shut and obtain privacy.
Mr. Smith (02:34:21):
And David was staying in that room, is that correct?
Lieutenant Wells (02:34:27):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Smith (02:34:29):
You alluded to the fact, both on direct and cross, that from the 13th to the 17th... Well, when you were there on the 13th, you made your observations. We went through your pictures. On the 17th, you alluded to the fact that you believe some items were not in the same place as on the 13th, is that correct?
Lieutenant Wells (02:34:51):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Smith (02:34:51):
All right. I'm going to take you to two photographs. I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 70 and 71. Do you recognize State's Exhibit 70?
Lieutenant Wells (02:35:22):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Smith (02:35:22):
What is 70?
Lieutenant Wells (02:35:24):
70 is a photograph of the living room. It's taken right as you step inside the front door and turn immediately to your left facing east.
Mr. Smith (02:35:35):
And when was this photograph taken?
Lieutenant Wells (02:35:44):
I believe this was on the 17th, I believe.
Mr. Smith (02:35:48):
All right. And does it fairly and accurately depict what you observed on the 17th in the living room?
Lieutenant Wells (02:35:54):
Yes, sir. It does.
Mr. Smith (02:35:55):
Will it assist you in your testimony today?
Lieutenant Wells (02:35:58):
Yes, sir. It would.
Mr. Smith (02:35:59):
All right. And 71?
Lieutenant Wells (02:36:03):
71 is a photograph of the eastern side of the living room. It starts or cuts off there at the bottom of the ottoman facing toward the couch.
Mr. Smith (02:36:15):
And when does it appear to be taken?
Lieutenant Wells (02:36:19):
On the same time, contiguous with this other picture.
Mr. Smith (02:36:24):
On the 17th?
Lieutenant Wells (02:36:25):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Smith (02:36:26):
All right. Fairly and accurately depict what you observed on that day?
Lieutenant Wells (02:36:30):
Yes, sir. It does.
Mr. Smith (02:36:31):
And will it assist you in your testimony today?
Lieutenant Wells (02:36:33):
Yes, sir. It would.
Mr. Smith (02:36:34):
Move to introduce 70 and 71.
Judge Jensen (02:36:36):
Any objection?
Mr. Britt (02:36:37):
No, sir.
Mr. Smith (02:36:37):
Permission-
Judge Jensen (02:36:38):
State's Exhibits 70 and 71 will be admitted into evidence.
Mr. Smith (02:36:41):
Permission to publish.
Judge Jensen (02:36:42):
You may.
Mr. Smith (02:36:45):
Lieutenant Wells, this is 70. Is this how the couch area or the living room area appeared on the 17th?
Lieutenant Wells (02:36:55):
Yes, sir. It is.
Mr. Smith (02:36:56):
And it was different than the pictures we saw on the 13th?
Lieutenant Wells (02:36:59):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Smith (02:37:01):
Let's show you 71. Again, is this how the couch appeared when you searched the residence on 11/17?
Lieutenant Wells (02:37:13):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Smith (02:37:13):
Again, it appears different than the photographs that Mr. Britt showed you on cross-examination on the 13th, is that correct?
Lieutenant Wells (02:37:23):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Smith (02:37:23):
All right. These two sheets, are these the sheets that you recovered in State's Exhibit 55 and 56?
Lieutenant Wells (02:37:36):
Yes, sir. They are.
Mr. Smith (02:37:38):
All right. And again, these photographs appear different than when you went in there on the 13th, correct?
Lieutenant Wells (02:37:44):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Smith (02:37:54):
No further questions, Judge.
Judge Jensen (02:37:55):
Recross?
Mr. Britt (02:37:56):
May I approach exhibit?
Judge Jensen (02:37:58):
You may.
Mr. Britt (02:37:58):
May I have just a moment?
Judge Jensen (02:37:58):
You may.
Mr. Britt (02:37:58):
May I approach the witness?
Judge Jensen (02:37:58):
You may.
Mr. Britt (02:39:44):
Mr. Wells, let me show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 70. This is a photograph in the living room. This is the bookshelf area, is that correct?
Lieutenant Wells (02:39:55):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:39:56):
Located in the left bottom corner. Do you note at the bottom of the photograph, there appears to be an item that is black in color that extends up onto the bookshelf?
Lieutenant Wells (02:40:20):
Mr. Britt, there's something there that's black. I'm not sure what it is, but yes sir, there is.
Mr. Britt (02:40:32):
Mr. Wells, thank you. This is being displayed on the Elmo projector?
Lieutenant Wells (02:40:42):
Yes, sir.
Mr. Britt (02:40:43):
On the bottom shelf of the open portion of the bookshelf, there appears to be a black item that runs along the edge of what it appears to be a gray pillow. Is that what that was? Do you know what that is?
Lieutenant Wells (02:41:10):
I don't know exactly what that is, Mr. Britt, but I see what you're talking about.
Mr. Britt (02:41:15):
Are these a pair of blue jeans?
Lieutenant Wells (02:41:18):
They could be.
Mr. Britt (02:41:21):
And you did not seize this item?
Lieutenant Wells (02:41:28):
No, sir. I don't recall actually seeing it until you pointed it out on this particular photograph.
Mr. Britt (02:41:33):
Does it resemble a dog leash?
Lieutenant Wells (02:41:40):
I can't tell, Mr. Britt. I mean, it may be. I can't tell from here.
Mr. Britt (02:41:46):
Or perhaps even a belt.
Lieutenant Wells (02:41:52):
I don't know what that is, Mr. Britt.
Mr. Britt (02:41:54):
All right. Thank you. I don't have any other questions.
Judge Jensen (02:41:56):
All right. Is this witness subject to recall?
Mr. Smith (02:41:58):
Yes, Judge.
Judge Jensen (02:41:59):
All right, sir, you're still subject to the obligations of your subpoena. At this time, you may step down. You're free to go.
Lieutenant Wells (02:42:04):
Yes, sir.
Judge Jensen (02:42:19):
All right, members of the jury, we're going to go ahead and break for lunch. Close up your notebooks. As you break for lunch, remember not to have any conversation amongst yourselves regarding this case. Do not allow anyone else to discuss this case in your presence. Do not have any contact with any of the parties, attorneys, or witnesses. Do not conduct any independent investigation or inquiry, and do not post online on any social media sites regarding your experience or any of the evidence you've seen or heard. We'll go ahead and excuse you. We'll reconvene again at 10 to two, that's 1:50. Thank you.
Bailiff (02:43:00):
Thank you, Your Honor. Make sure your notebooks are closed you'll leave those in your chairs. When you're ready, front row then back [inaudible 02:43:06] yourself, please.
(02:43:04)
Jury's left the courtroom.
Judge Jensen (02:43:40):
Thank you, sir. Let the record reflect that the jury has exited the courtroom. Mr. Prevatte.
Mr. Prevatte (02:43:44):
I'm sorry, Your Honor.
Judge Jensen (02:43:46):
All right. It was uncalled for. You can't do that. He is a witness testifying, all right? That means you remain silent regardless of who's up here. All right. Anything we need to discuss before a break, Mr. Smith?
Mr. Smith (02:44:00):
No, Your Honor.
Judge Jensen (02:44:00):
Mr. Britt?
Mr. Britt (02:44:01):
No, sir.
Judge Jensen (02:44:02):
All right. We'll be in recess till 1:50.
Bailiff (02:44:05):
Court will be in recess till 1:50. 1:50.
Speaker 7 (02:50:00):
(silence)
Speaker 8 (03:24:00):
(silence)
Bailiff (03:24:00):
Thank you. State can proceed.
Prosecutor (04:14:09):
Can you state your name and spell it for Madam Court Reporter?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:14:11):
Yes. Good afternoon everyone. I'm Detective Roy Brandenburg, B-R-A-N-D-E-N-B-U-R-G.
Prosecutor (04:14:18):
And Detective Brandenburg, where do you work?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:14:20):
Pender County Sheriff's Office, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:14:22):
How long have you worked there?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:14:23):
Since 2013.
Prosecutor (04:14:26):
What is your current role at the Pender County Sheriff's Office?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:14:30):
I'm currently assigned as a crime scene investigator. However, I don't do crime scenes anymore. I run the digital forensics lab.
Prosecutor (04:14:41):
What other roles have you had in your career at the Pender County Sheriff's Office?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:14:45):
I started off as a bailiff, did that for a few months, and then moved to uniformed patrol. Within the uniformed patrol, I moved to the traffic before I became crime scene investigator in 2017.
Prosecutor (04:14:59):
Do you have other law enforcement experience outside of the Pender County Sheriff's Office?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:15:03):
No, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:15:07):
Were you employed, sworn in, on duty on November 13th of 2017 with the Pender County Sheriff's Office?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:15:14):
Yes, ma'am. I was.
Prosecutor (04:15:15):
What was your role with the Sheriff's Office in November of 2017?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:15:20):
As a trainee and as a crime scene investigator.
Prosecutor (04:15:24):
And who were you training with?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:15:25):
Lieutenant Wells.
Prosecutor (04:15:27):
Did you get called to process a crime scene on November 13th of 2017?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:15:33):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:15:34):
Where was that?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:15:37):
At 104 Blackwater Drive.
Prosecutor (04:15:39):
Did you process it with anyone?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:15:42):
With Lieutenant Wells, Sergeant Kleiner was out there, Sergeant Leatherwood. There was quite a few people out there.
Prosecutor (04:15:51):
And were you and Lieutenant Wells primarily processing the crime scene?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:15:57):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:15:58):
Was Lieutenant Wells the lead if you were still in training, or how did that work?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:16:03):
Yes, ma'am. He was the lead and I was the secondary in learning from him.
Prosecutor (04:16:13):
And so you assisted Lieutenant Wells in taking photographs?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:16:16):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:16:17):
And walking around 104 Blackwater Drive?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:16:19):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:16:23):
On the next day, on November 14th of 2017, did you come into contact with the defendant, David Prevatte?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:16:31):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:16:31):
Do you see him in the courtroom here today?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:16:33):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:16:34):
Can you identify him by where he's sitting or an article of clothing?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:16:37):
He's sitting there at the defendant's table wearing a yellow shirt.
Prosecutor (04:16:42):
Thank you. And on November 14th of 2017, did David Prevatte consent for you to take a penis swab?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:16:56):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:16:57):
Can you explain to the jury how that process works?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:17:00):
So Mr. Prevatte and I were sitting in the patrol room. He had just finished up an interview. I was sitting with him, just watching him, and Lieutenant Wells came in with two sterile buccal swabs. I believe Lieutenant Wells had described buccal swabs to y'all. We blocked the camera that showed the room. Mr. Prevatte dropped his pants and underwear, I took the sterile swab, put the clear sterile saline solution on there, and Mr. Prevatte held his penis while I took two swabs and swabbed.
Prosecutor (04:17:47):
What area of his penis did you swab?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:17:49):
The head of his penis as well as the shaft.
Prosecutor (04:17:57):
When you collected it, did you notice anything unusual?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:18:00):
Yes. The white Q-tip swab that turned a little pinkish, had some pink, indicated like blood.
Prosecutor (04:18:11):
Did you ask him about it?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:18:14):
Yes. Yes, I did.
Prosecutor (04:18:15):
What did he say?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:18:16):
He said that he had sex with his girlfriend and she was menstruating at that time.
Prosecutor (04:18:30):
May I approach?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (04:18:30):
You may.
Prosecutor (04:18:40):
Detective Brandenburg, I'm showing you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 72. Do you recognize that envelope?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:18:47):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:18:48):
And what is it?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:18:49):
It's an envelope with our case number on there, item 15. It's a sample penal swab from Mr. Prevatte.
Prosecutor (04:18:56):
Okay. And this is the sample you collected on November 14th?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:19:02):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:19:03):
Appear to be in a substantially similar condition as when you collected it besides going to the lab for testing?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:19:10):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:19:12):
Judge, state would move to enter State 72 into evidence.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (04:19:15):
Any objection?
Defense (04:19:17):
No, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (04:19:18):
State's Exhibit 72 will be admitted into evidence.
Prosecutor (04:19:26):
You mentioned that you didn't record actually swabbing his penis, right?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:19:32):
Correct.
Prosecutor (04:19:33):
But did you record your interaction with David Prevatte and what he was telling you at that time?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:19:40):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:19:52):
May I approach?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (04:19:53):
You may.
Prosecutor (04:19:59):
Detective Brandenburg, I'm showing you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 73. Do you recognize that disc?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:20:05):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:20:05):
What is it?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:20:06):
It's a disc of the recordings that I recorded with my department issued cell phone.
Prosecutor (04:20:12):
And did you review this prior to testifying here today?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:20:17):
Yes.
Prosecutor (04:20:17):
And you initialed it?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:20:18):
Yes.
Prosecutor (04:20:19):
And these are your recordings of your interaction with David Prevatte, is that right?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:20:24):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:20:25):
Any alterations, modifications, deletions, changes?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:20:28):
None.
Prosecutor (04:20:29):
Judge, the state would move to enter State's Exhibit 73 into evidence.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (04:20:33):
Any objection?
Defense (04:20:34):
No, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (04:20:35):
State's Exhibit 73 will be admitted into evidence.
Prosecutor (04:20:39):
And may I publish to the jury?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (04:20:39):
You may.
Prosecutor (04:21:12):
For the record, I'll publish both video clips on this disc.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (04:21:15):
Okay.
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:21:16):
In front of you...
Prosecutor (04:21:32):
And Detective Brandenburg, where is this located?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:21:35):
It's in the patrol room at the sheriff's office. It's where... It's also got a fingerprint machine right there. It's in the background.
Prosecutor (04:21:44):
Was this the... Or let me put it this way. Do you remember what time of day on November 14th this was?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:21:51):
I believe it was in the afternoon. It was after he had an interview.
David Prevatte (04:21:57):
In front of you like that going 15 miles an hour. I didn't complain but...
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:21:58):
Right.
David Prevatte (04:21:58):
Man, it was messed up pretty bad. I got to redo... You see [inaudible 04:21:59]? Yeah, I got to redo them too. I don't know what happened there. It's a long story. I've been working on that [inaudible 04:22:19] for a while. I just been fiddling around with it, odds and ends.
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:22:27):
You ready to take, was it Hailey, you said, your girlfriend? Taking a ride in that? Is it rideable yet? Drivable?
David Prevatte (04:22:29):
Mama won't let me get it till I get tires on her. She wants me to be easier with her.
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:22:35):
When was the last time you were with her? Last time you were with...
David Prevatte (04:22:37):
Last night? Oh, Hailey? Yeah, I slept with her last night.
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:22:38):
So you did hook up?
David Prevatte (04:22:45):
And then this morning.
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:22:48):
So basically we'll find Hailey, and that was you?
David Prevatte (04:22:52):
That's where all that blood came from. I was like, "Damn, this bitch is on her period." I knew it was too wet.
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:22:52):
All right.
David Prevatte (04:22:52):
Oh, she [inaudible 04:23:11] right now. When I get home and I get that phone, call her, I'll be like, "So, you on the rag, ain't you?"
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:23:32):
Who?
David Prevatte (04:23:35):
My nieces. That's why I'm on here because my niece at the hospitals.
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:23:35):
Okay. And what's her name?
David Prevatte (04:23:36):
Paitin.
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:23:37):
What's the other one?
David Prevatte (04:23:37):
Savannah.
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:23:38):
Okay.
David Prevatte (04:23:39):
Savannah is seven and she got fetal alcohol syndrome. And Paitin, she's normal, like... Well, she was normal. I pray and I hope for the best, man. I really do. You have no idea, man.
(04:24:07)
Am I good to go?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:24:08):
You're good to go.
David Prevatte (04:24:17):
Yes, sir. Thank you.
Prosecutor (04:24:26):
Detective Brandenburg, you had processed the scene on November 13th of 2017. When you processed that scene, did you know anything about the case or...
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:24:41):
Just that Paitin Fields was injured and in the hospital. I didn't get a full briefing until as the search was going on.
Prosecutor (04:24:53):
Were y'all looking for anything in particular when you were searching the residence on November 13th?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:24:59):
From what Lieutenant Wells told me, just things, items that would cause Lich curve marks.
Prosecutor (04:25:05):
And did you ever see, on November 13th, when you went through that house, a dog collar or a dog leash that you recall?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:25:12):
Not that I recall.
Prosecutor (04:25:16):
And you also went through... Did you also assist Lieutenant Wells in searching 104 Blackwater Drive on November 17th of 2017?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:25:29):
Yes, I believe I went back out there.
Prosecutor (04:25:34):
And again, you were just assisting him and in training?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:25:37):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:25:37):
And you took photographs on that day as well?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:25:40):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:25:53):
May I approach?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (04:25:53):
You may.
Prosecutor (04:26:01):
Detective Brandenburg, I'm showing you what I've marked as State's Exhibit 74, which is a disc. Do you recognize that?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:26:08):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:26:09):
And what's on this disc?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:26:11):
Photos that were taken on November 17th out at 104 Blackwater.
Prosecutor (04:26:14):
And are they a fair and accurate representation of what you observed that day?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:26:19):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:26:20):
Will they help illustrate your testimony?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:26:22):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:26:22):
And you reviewed this prior to testifying today?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:26:24):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:26:25):
Judge, the State would move to enter State's Exhibit 74 for illustrative purposes.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (04:26:29):
Any objection?
Defense (04:26:31):
No, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (04:26:32):
State's Exhibit 74 will be admitted into evidence.
Prosecutor (04:26:36):
May I publish?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (04:26:37):
You may.
Prosecutor (04:26:38):
And for the record, I'm going to publish three photos that are on this disc, 16, 18, and 19. Detective Brandenburg, what is that a photograph of?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:27:47):
That's a photograph of the living room area of 104 Blackwater Drive.
Prosecutor (04:27:55):
Where would the person taking this photograph be standing?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:27:58):
Just at the entrance. So right immediately to the left would be the main entrance to the residence.
Prosecutor (04:28:11):
Looking at photograph 18, what is that a photograph of?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:28:20):
The L-shaped couch and you got the bookcase to the left of the couch and then that's a little alcove there. So you got a bookcase on the other side that's not being seen and then the main entrance.
Prosecutor (04:28:37):
Detective Brandenburg, are you able to see from there this area right here?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:28:45):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:28:46):
And what is this?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:28:49):
My recollection, that is like a bag, a book bag or a gym bag or something.
Prosecutor (04:28:57):
Not a dog leash or collar?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:28:59):
No, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:29:00):
And I'm going back to 16. What I just pointed to, is that in this area right here?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:29:08):
It would be on the other side of the jeans.
Prosecutor (04:29:15):
And looking at 19, is that a wider photograph of that area?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:29:23):
Yes, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:29:25):
And if I zoom in here, can you see any dog leash or dog collars?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:29:33):
No, ma'am.
Prosecutor (04:30:06):
And Detective Brandenburg, looking back at photo 16, if I zoom in on this area down here, is that the area where that bag is behind here?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:30:18):
Yes, ma'am. That's where it would be.
Prosecutor (04:30:30):
Detective Brandenburg, when you searched the home on November 17th of 2017, do you recall seeing any dog collars or leashes?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:30:41):
No, I did not.
Prosecutor (04:30:45):
I want to go forward a little bit to January 27th of 2020. Did you seize items from the home of Lisa and Dale Hunt?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:30:59):
Yes.
Prosecutor (04:30:59):
Was that at Blackwater Drive?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:31:01):
Yes, it was.
Prosecutor (04:31:26):
Detective Brandenburg, why did you go out to that address?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:31:35):
Sergeant Leatherwood asked me to go out there because the family wanted to show some things, and so we went back out there to see what they had to show us.
Prosecutor (04:31:45):
May I approach, Judge?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (04:31:46):
You may.
Prosecutor (04:31:57):
Detective Brandenburg, I'm showing you what I've marked as State's Exhibit 75. Do you recognize that item?
Det. Roy Brandenburg (04:32:01):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 9 (04:32:00):
75. Do you recognize that item?
Detective Brandenburg (04:32:03):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 9 (04:32:04):
And what is that?
Detective Brandenburg (04:32:05):
It's paper that's wrapped over, has our case number on it, of our item 45. It's actually a set of blinds on the windows at 104 Blackwater Drive in the living room.
Speaker 9 (04:32:17):
And did the family... Or let me put it this way. Who provided this to you?
Detective Brandenburg (04:32:22):
The family. I believe it came originally from Lisa Hunt. She had mentioned something about the blinds.
Speaker 9 (04:32:29):
So you collected this from the home?
Detective Brandenburg (04:32:31):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 9 (04:32:32):
Appear in a similar condition as when you collected it besides going to the crime lab?
Detective Brandenburg (04:32:37):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 9 (04:32:38):
Judge, state would move to enter State's 75.
Judge (04:32:43):
Any objection?
Speaker 10 (04:32:44):
No, sir.
Judge (04:32:44):
State's exhibit 75 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 9 (04:32:47):
Detective Brandenburg, why were they asking you to come and collect the blinds?
Detective Brandenburg (04:32:56):
They had an alternative theory on what had happened to Paitin, possibly that she wrapped herself around the cord of the blinds or maybe even Savannah would've done it or something like that. So again, just to either confirm or not confirm the alternate theory.
Speaker 9 (04:33:23):
But they didn't bring this to your attention until January 2020, is that correct?
Detective Brandenburg (04:33:26):
Correct.
Speaker 9 (04:33:46):
And they asked you to... Well, let me ask this, Detective Brandenburg, did they bring your attention to any other areas of the home?
Detective Brandenburg (04:33:55):
Yes. I believe it was like a stain on a wall and then a stain on the couch.
Speaker 9 (04:34:04):
And why did they bring your attention to that?
Detective Brandenburg (04:34:06):
That they believed that Paitin had thrown up and left marks or bodily fluids on those places.
Speaker 9 (04:34:18):
And why did they want you to swab those areas?
Detective Brandenburg (04:34:21):
They believe that said something that Paitin might've died from being sick instead of strangulation.
Speaker 9 (04:34:28):
May I approach?
Judge (04:34:39):
You may.
(04:34:39)
[inaudible 04:34:35]. That's the couch.
Speaker 9 (04:34:39):
Mm-hmm. So, it's the-
Judge (04:34:39):
Gotcha.
Speaker 9 (04:34:44):
Detective Brandenburg, did you swab those areas at their request?
Detective Brandenburg (04:34:47):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 9 (04:34:48):
I'm showing you what I've marked as State's Exhibit 76. Can you identify that?
Detective Brandenburg (04:34:54):
Yes. It's an envelope with our case number and item 43, swab from the couch.
Speaker 9 (04:35:00):
And do you recognize State's 77?
Detective Brandenburg (04:35:05):
Yes. It's an envelope with our case number and item, 44 swab from the wall hand print.
Speaker 9 (04:35:13):
And do these appear to be in a substantially similar condition as when you collected them besides going to the lab?
Detective Brandenburg (04:35:18):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 9 (04:35:20):
Judge, the state would move to enter State's 76 and 77 into evidence.
Judge (04:35:24):
Any objection?
Speaker 10 (04:35:25):
No, sir.
Judge (04:35:26):
State's Exhibits 76 and 77 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 9 (04:35:36):
I got, Your Honor.
Judge (04:35:37):
Here.
Speaker 9 (04:35:47):
Nothing. Nothing further, Judge.
Judge (04:35:51):
Cross examination?
Speaker 10 (04:35:54):
Yes, Sir. Mr. Brandenburg, excuse me, you went to the 104 Blackwater Drive how many times total?
Detective Brandenburg (04:36:11):
Three.
Speaker 10 (04:36:12):
One on the 13th?
Detective Brandenburg (04:36:14):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 10 (04:36:16):
One on the 17th?
Detective Brandenburg (04:36:21):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 10 (04:36:22):
And then one on January the 27th?
Detective Brandenburg (04:36:24):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 10 (04:36:27):
27th, 26th, 2020?
Detective Brandenburg (04:36:31):
27th, 2020.
Speaker 10 (04:36:34):
2020. Now, when the Sheriff's Department first executed the search warrant at that address on the 13th, was there crime scene tape put up?
Detective Brandenburg (04:36:46):
No, sir.
Speaker 10 (04:36:47):
Was the area secure?
Detective Brandenburg (04:36:53):
There were enough officers out there that I would say the area was secure.
Speaker 10 (04:36:56):
And you assisted Mr. Wells in collecting evidence, photographing the items in the house?
Detective Brandenburg (04:37:07):
Correct.
Speaker 10 (04:37:09):
When that search was complete, was the house secured? By that I mean, was it locked? Was there tape put up on the door so no one entered it?
Detective Brandenburg (04:37:23):
No, sir, because the family was still living there.
Speaker 10 (04:37:25):
Okay. So the-
Detective Brandenburg (04:37:26):
They were still there.
Speaker 10 (04:37:27):
It was turned back over to them?
Detective Brandenburg (04:37:29):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 10 (04:37:30):
Then on the 17th, you and Mr. Hamilton went back again to conduct another search?
Detective Brandenburg (04:37:40):
Along with others, yes.
Speaker 10 (04:37:42):
Who was present then?
Detective Brandenburg (04:37:44):
The only ones I can remember is Lieutenant Wells, Sergeant Leatherwood, maybe Sergeant Kleinert.
Speaker 10 (04:37:52):
You didn't have the same number of officers the second time as you did the first?
Detective Brandenburg (04:37:56):
No, sir.
Speaker 10 (04:37:58):
And once you completed that search, was the house again turned back over to the family?
Detective Brandenburg (04:38:04):
Yes.
Speaker 10 (04:38:04):
No restrictions were placed on them about what they could and could not do in their house?
Detective Brandenburg (04:38:10):
Not that I know of.
Speaker 10 (04:38:11):
So when you went back in January of 2020, January 27th, 2020. The Hunts had called and asked y'all to come?
Detective Brandenburg (04:38:29):
I believe so. I believe they contacted Sergeant Leatherwood and that's how I ended up being out there.
Speaker 10 (04:38:36):
There was not another search warrant?
Detective Brandenburg (04:38:38):
Not that I... I don't believe it was.
Speaker 10 (04:38:40):
So that was a consent search?
Detective Brandenburg (04:38:42):
Yes, sir. I believe so.
Speaker 10 (04:38:44):
And on the 27th is when you collected the stain from the wall?
Detective Brandenburg (04:38:52):
Yes. Swab of the stain. Yes, sir.
Speaker 10 (04:38:53):
And the stain from the couch?
Detective Brandenburg (04:38:56):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 10 (04:38:57):
Do you remember which portion of the couch you collected the stain from?
Detective Brandenburg (04:39:02):
I believe it was in the... Where Savannah... Excuse me, Paitin's feet would've been and Savannah's head would've been in that particular area.
Speaker 10 (04:39:13):
So it was at the-
Detective Brandenburg (04:39:16):
Almost in the corner of the aisle.
Speaker 10 (04:39:16):
So it was at that point at Paitin's feet?
Detective Brandenburg (04:39:26):
I believe that's because the way the one photograph with her head would being up towards the main entrance and where Savannah's head was down at the corner of the couch.
Speaker 10 (04:39:33):
Okay. And so how many things did you cut out of the couch?
Detective Brandenburg (04:39:41):
I just didn't cut the couch. I did a swab of the couch.
Speaker 10 (04:39:43):
You swabbed it?
Detective Brandenburg (04:39:44):
Yes.
Speaker 10 (04:39:46):
And likewise, the wall was swabbed?
Detective Brandenburg (04:39:48):
Yes.
Speaker 10 (04:39:50):
And it was reported to you by either Mr. or Mrs. Hunt that Paitin had been sick and maybe threw up there?
Detective Brandenburg (04:40:02):
That's what I was getting from them.
Speaker 10 (04:40:08):
Is it the same scenario as with on the couch thrown up on the wall and the couch?
Detective Brandenburg (04:40:13):
I believe it was both at the same time, yes.
Speaker 10 (04:40:18):
But that evidence wasn't obtained until January 27th, 2020?
Detective Brandenburg (04:40:25):
Correct.
Speaker 10 (04:40:26):
Almost over two years since the alleged date of the incident?
Detective Brandenburg (04:40:31):
Correct.
Speaker 10 (04:40:33):
When you were there on the 14th and inside the house, did you notice any stains on the wall or on the sofa?
Detective Brandenburg (04:40:41):
I personally did not.
Speaker 10 (04:40:43):
What about when you went back on November 17th, 2017, did you notice the stains in?
Detective Brandenburg (04:41:08):
I don't recall seeing them.
Speaker 10 (04:41:10):
Did you notice any debris on the couch or on the wall that resembled vomit?
Detective Brandenburg (04:41:15):
No, sir. I don't recall seeing any.
Speaker 10 (04:41:17):
I don't have any other questions.
Judge (04:41:18):
Redirect?
Speaker 9 (04:41:19):
Just briefly, Judge. Detective Brandenburg, can you describe for the jury what kind of area this home was in? I mean, was it rural? Can you describe it?
Detective Brandenburg (04:41:32):
104 Blackwater Drive is in North 117 in a fairly rural area. I believe the road does dead end. It's a gravel road.
Speaker 9 (04:41:42):
When you were processing the crime scene, was there anyone else around besides who we've already talked about?
Detective Brandenburg (04:41:48):
No, ma'am. And in any traffic that came down the road, you got to go slow, so they just drove straight by, and I don't remember seeing too many vehicles going by.
Speaker 9 (04:41:59):
When you processed the house on November 13th of 2017 and you processed that living room area, were the blinds... Or excuse me, the curtains closed on that wall by the couch?
Detective Brandenburg (04:42:11):
Yes, ma'am. I believe they were.
Speaker 9 (04:42:13):
Did you ever notice any kind of the blinds even being exposed?
Detective Brandenburg (04:42:19):
I don't recall seeing any part of the blinds exposed.
Speaker 9 (04:42:23):
Nothing further, Judge.
Judge (04:42:24):
Any recross?
Speaker 10 (04:42:25):
No, sir.
Judge (04:42:26):
Is this witness subject to recall?
Speaker 9 (04:42:29):
Yes, Judge.
Judge (04:42:30):
All right, sir, you're still subject to the obligations of your subpoena at this time. You may step down.
Detective Brandenburg (04:42:34):
Thank you, sir.
Judge (04:42:48):
State, you may call your next witness.
Speaker 11 (04:42:49):
The state would call Dr. Karen Kelly to the stand.
Judge (04:43:00):
All right, ma'am, if you can make your way around here to the witness stand, please.
(04:43:12)
Before you have a seat.
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:43:13):
I'll affirm.
Judge (04:43:14):
Okay. If you can go ahead and raise your right hand, ma'am.
Speaker 9 (04:43:18):
Do you affirm that the testimony you give in court today will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, and that's your solemn affirmation?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:43:24):
It is.
Speaker 9 (04:43:24):
Thank you. You may be seated.
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:43:24):
Thank you.
Judge (04:43:32):
Ma'am, as you give your testimony here today, please make sure to speak loudly and clearly into the microphone. Please make sure all of your answers are out loud, yeses and nos. Please make sure you wait for the attorney to be done asking you a question before you give a response. Can you do that?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:43:45):
Yes.
Judge (04:43:46):
Thank you. State, you may proceed.
Speaker 11 (04:43:47):
Thank you, Your Honor. Dr. Kelly, can you introduce yourself to the jury, please?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:43:51):
Certainly. My name is Karen L. Kelly, K-E-L-L-Y.
Speaker 11 (04:43:56):
And what is your occupation?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:43:59):
I am a forensic and cardiovascular pathologist.
Speaker 11 (04:44:00):
What is a forensic pathologist?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:44:07):
So pathology is actually the study of human disease in the body, and we study pathology as a medical physician to determine how disease affects people. There's two different types of pathology. There's anatomic and there's clinical pathology. Anatomic pathology is a study of tissues that... There's surgical pathology in anatomic pathology. Surgical pathologists actually receive specimens from the emergency room... I'm sorry, from the surgical sites, and they determine whether a tissue is benign or malignant if it comes from the operating room. Under anatomic pathology, also autopsy pathology, where we actually perform autopsies and determine how the disease process may have affected specific organs. We can actually do autopsies on people who have received certain therapeutic, such as chemotherapy, and whether the chemotherapy has helped the tumors. And we do autopsies for various other reasons. Now, clinical pathology are the physicians who actually run labs in the hospital, such as the toxicology lab, the blood bank, those sorts of things. And I was trained in both anatomic and clinical pathology at Hennepin County Medical Center in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
(04:45:45)
Now, a subspecialty of anatomic pathology is forensic pathology. Forensic pathology requires an additional year of training as a forensic fellow is what we're called, and we learn how different reactions of the body to trauma. So typically, we are doing autopsies on people who die of non-natural causes, and there's some sort of trauma, maybe a gunshot wound, stabbing, that sort of thing, and we're trained how to interpret occurrences of trauma to the body. I did train an additional year in forensic pathology at the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office, again in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Speaker 11 (04:46:33):
So let's start then with your education. I assume you received your bachelor's degree, and where did you receive that from?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:46:42):
Oh, that was many years ago. I received my bachelor's degree in the University of Minnesota in Duluth, Minnesota.
Speaker 11 (04:46:49):
And did you then go to medical school at some point?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:46:52):
I did go to medical school. It was quite a few years later. I went to medical school at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis and received my medical degree in 1987.
Speaker 11 (04:47:04):
And what kind of specialties, again, have you been certified or qualified in?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:47:11):
I did one year. After medical school, you do a year of what's called an internship, and you're now a new doctor. I did one year of general surgery prior to going into pathology. I then transferred into my anatomic and clinical pathology residency, then did my fellowship in forensics. I was board certified in anatomic and clinical pathology in 1993, so board examination requires you to take... It's usually a three-day test to make sure that you're qualified and that you know enough material to actually not harm patients or to miss diagnoses. I passed my boards on the first try in 1993, and then I did a forensic board certification in 1994 and passed on my first time.
Speaker 11 (04:48:03):
So since 1993 or '94, have you been doing autopsies and working in the forensic pathology field?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:48:12):
Intermittently, yes. I also did 10 years of cardiovascular or heart pathology in St. Paul, Minnesota prior to going back to doing full-time forensics.
Speaker 11 (04:48:22):
And where have you done autopsies at? Where have you performed states and institutions?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:48:32):
So once I left Minnesota, I practiced in Houston, Texas for one year. I then went to Northwest Florida. I've also been in Alabama. And then I ended up coming up to East Carolina University in 2009. I practiced full-time as a forensic pathologist and a tenured associate professor at East Carolina University at the medical school for 16 years.
Speaker 11 (04:49:00):
And where are you currently employed?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:49:02):
I am currently retired from full-time practice, but I'm employed by a group called Forensic Pathology Services that offers forensic pathologists to go out to offices across the country. There's a shortage of forensic pathologists, and so there are many offices, if someone's on vacation or someone is sick, that there's no one to do their autopsy. So I actually travel to different offices and provide autopsy services.
Speaker 11 (04:49:30):
And how long have you done that for?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:49:31):
Since my retirement, right before my retirement. It's been almost two years.
Speaker 11 (04:49:35):
All right. And approximately how many autopsies have you performed in your career?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:49:41):
That's a difficult number to recall. It's between probably six and 7,000.
Speaker 11 (04:49:46):
All right. Have you been published as a doctor or a pathologist?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:49:51):
I have.
Speaker 11 (04:49:53):
May I approach the witness, Judge?
Judge (04:49:54):
You may.
Speaker 11 (04:50:01):
Okay. I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 78 for identification purposes. Do you recognize 78?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:50:11):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 11 (04:50:11):
And what is 78?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:50:13):
State's Exhibit 78 is actually a copy of what we call a curriculum vitae, which is basically a resume. We call it a curriculum vitae in academic centers.
Speaker 11 (04:50:25):
And that shows your education, some of your experience, some of your publications and trainings, is that correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:50:32):
That's correct.
Speaker 11 (04:50:32):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 78, Judge.
Speaker 10 (04:50:35):
No objection.
Judge (04:50:36):
State's Exhibit 78 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 11 (04:51:15):
Dr. Kelly... Well, strike that. At this time, I would ask that Dr. Kelly be qualified as an expert in forensic pathology.
Judge (04:51:24):
Any objection?
Speaker 10 (04:51:25):
No, Sir.
Judge (04:51:25):
The witness will be qualified as an expert in the field of forensic pathology.
Speaker 11 (04:51:30):
Dr. Kelly, in November of 2017, where were you employed?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:51:36):
I was employed at East Carolina University and we were actually the autopsy center for the eastern part of the state.
Speaker 11 (04:51:46):
So counties like Pender County, New Hanover County, so that east of 95, if they needed autopsies performed, they were sending them to ECU at that time?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:51:56):
That's correct.
Speaker 11 (04:51:57):
And did you happen to do a autopsy on Paitin Fields?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:52:04):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 11 (04:52:04):
And can you tell the jury when that occurred?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:52:08):
I would need a copy of my report. I don't recall.
Speaker 11 (04:52:11):
Well, let me walk you down. In November of... Around November 14, 15 of 2017, were you contacted by medical professionals in New Hanover County regarding a young lady or a child that was going to have an organ donation, but still needed to have an autopsy?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:52:35):
Most likely the office was contacted. What happens typically is a local medical examiner or a physician from the hospital will call the Greenville office. They'll discuss what they have, and if they think that they need an autopsy, they will contact us. I was later notified because we have, as a medical examiner, prior to autopsy, we have to give permission for donation of organs in case that organ donation might in some way interfere with getting results from the autopsy. So we were contacted about donation from Paitin and we allowed that as long as I was allowed to go down to the hospital and take part in the donation.
Speaker 11 (04:53:21):
Did you in fact do that?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:53:23):
I certainly did.
Speaker 11 (04:53:24):
All right. And after the donation, at some point you performed an autopsy on Paitin Fields, is that correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:53:31):
That's correct.
Speaker 11 (04:53:32):
And during the course of your autopsy and you performed it after your autopsy, do you prepare a report showing your findings from your autopsy?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:53:42):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 11 (04:53:43):
And did you do it in this case?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:53:44):
Yes.
Speaker 11 (04:53:45):
All right. May I approach the witness, Judge?
Judge (04:53:45):
You may.
Speaker 11 (04:53:52):
Let me show you State's Exhibit 79. Do you recognize 79?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:53:59):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 11 (04:53:59):
What is 79?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:54:00):
State's Exhibit 79 is a copy of the autopsy report on Paitin Fields.
Speaker 11 (04:54:06):
Does it provide your complete report?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:54:09):
Yes, I believe so.
Speaker 11 (04:54:10):
At some point, you did a supplemental to that report, is that correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:54:14):
That's correct.
Speaker 11 (04:54:15):
All right. But that report in 79, it contains your original report, is that correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:54:20):
Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 11 (04:54:23):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 79 at this time, Judge.
Judge (04:54:25):
Any objection?
Speaker 10 (04:54:25):
No, sir.
Judge (04:54:27):
State's Exhibit 79 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 11 (04:54:31):
So I'm going to go back to the original question. At some point, did you perform an autopsy on Paitin Fields?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:54:39):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 11 (04:54:40):
And when did you perform that?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:54:41):
That was on November 17th, 2017.
Speaker 11 (04:54:45):
And do you remember the date that you went down to New Hanover for the organ donation?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:54:54):
I'll see if it's in my report. I don't recall the exact date. It would've been either the day before, most likely the 16th.
Speaker 11 (04:55:08):
Okay. And could it have been the 15th?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:55:13):
Yes, it could have been. It was in the middle of the night, so I don't recall.
Speaker 11 (04:55:17):
When you were there during the course of the organ donation, what are you looking for as now the pathologist that's going to perform an autopsy later on?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:55:27):
My concern especially with Paitin's death is that the clinicians who had taken care of her had noticed that there was fluid inside her abdomen and that they saw that on various studies that they had done. And so I was concerned that there might have been blood in her abdomen, and my concern was if I was not there to determine where... If it was blood, where the blood would've come from. Often, or in some cases, children suffer injuries to their abdomen that can cause them to bleed internally, and I wanted to determine if that was the case.
Speaker 11 (04:56:10):
And what did you determine?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:56:11):
I determined that it was just serous fluid, it was not blood, and it was just fluid most likely from resuscitation and a lot of fluids given to her body.
Speaker 11 (04:56:22):
So did you approve the organ donation at that time?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:56:25):
I had approved it earlier as long as I was there, yes. So they did recover her organs.
Speaker 11 (04:56:30):
All right. And then she was transferred to or transported or transferred to ECU so you could perform your autopsy?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:56:37):
That's correct.
Speaker 11 (04:56:38):
Would you talk about and educate the jury on what an autopsy is and how do you perform one?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:56:46):
Certainly. So an autopsy is an examination obviously of the body. When we receive a decedent, first thing that we do is assign a case number to them. Each case has a specific identification number that goes with that person, with all the evidence, with all the photographs that we take so that we can keep all those things together. Paitin's number was B2017, so that's the year that we did her autopsy. And her number was 3680. So when we receive the body, we take photographs of the outside of the bag and determine if the bag was sealed or not. When a case comes from a scene rather than a hospital, we require that the bags are sealed so that none of the evidence is tampered with. From a hospital, it's quite different, so the bag may not be sealed because there would not be as high of a likelihood of someone tampering with any evidence.
(04:57:50)
We then open the bag and we start taking pictures of the person as we receive them. We take pictures from head to toe with them with clothing, if they have clothing, with their personal effects, their jewelry or anything like that so we can document what we received. Once we do that, then we remove the decedent from the bag and then we put them onto an autopsy table. And then we, again, take additional pictures, especially if we see something that is not normal, not natural, any trauma that we see to the body, we take extensive photographs. That's called the external examination. So we're looking at the outside or the external surfaces of the body. Once we do that, then we start the internal examination and we start with what we call a Y incision where we take an incision from each clavicle down to the sternum and then we make an incision down to the pubic bone.
(04:58:45)
In Paitin's case, she already had incisions that had been sewn, so we basically just opened up those sutures that were closing her body.
Speaker 11 (04:58:55):
Let me stop you there.
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:58:56):
Certainly.
Speaker 11 (04:58:59):
Those incisions were made for the organ donation, is that correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (04:59:00):
Well, there was a vertical line, correct, starting about here at what we call the sternal notch that went down to her pubic bone, and then there was one that went across her abdomen horizontally. So what we did was we started at the clavicles and then we just opened the sutures all the way down into her abdomen. Then we go on and we look at organs and see if the organs that are remaining, since she was a donor, if they're normal, if they're in normal positions, and if they grossly, by our eye, look normal. We then remove each organ individually, we examine it, we weigh it to see if it's normal weights, and then we actually cut sections through it to see if there's anything abnormal. We also, at that time, collect tissue specimens so that we can look at them under the microscope. During this, we also take toxicology specimens, we take blood, we take fluid from the eye, and if there's urine, we take that as well.
(04:59:59)
We then go on and we do what we call the brain examination. So we make an incision in the back of the scalp, as I'm showing you here, and we reflect the scalp forward. We then look for any trauma or any abnormalities. We then remove the calvarium, which is the top of the skull, and we look at the brain, we remove the brain. And then we go on and we do the neck, and we look for any evidence of hemorrhage, any trauma to the neck organs that might have been present. We then return all the organs to the body, and then once we're done, we collect all the evidence together so that we can transfer it to law enforcement.
Speaker 11 (05:00:40):
You've done six to seven thousands of these types of examinations?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:00:45):
Yes.
Speaker 11 (05:00:46):
All right. When Paitin comes to you, you said that she's identified by a document identifier. In this particular case with Paitin, did you take pictures?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:01:00):
Yes.
Speaker 11 (05:01:02):
May I approach the witness, Judge?
Judge (05:01:03):
You may.
Speaker 11 (05:01:05):
And are you doing that as you're performing the...
(05:01:18)
When you take pictures, are you taking pictures as you're performing the autopsy?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:01:22):
That's correct.
Speaker 11 (05:01:24):
I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 80 or 80. Do you recognize this disc?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:01:30):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 11 (05:01:31):
What is this disc?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:01:32):
State's Exhibit 80 is actually copies of photographs that were taken from Paitin's autopsy.
Speaker 11 (05:01:40):
Were they fairly and accurately... Well, do they fairly and accurately depict parts of your autopsy?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:01:46):
That's correct.
Speaker 11 (05:01:46):
Will they assist you in your testimony today?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:01:48):
Yes, they would.
Speaker 11 (05:01:49):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 80.
Judge (05:01:51):
Any objection?
Speaker 10 (05:01:52):
No, Sir.
Judge (05:01:52):
State's Exhibit 80 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 11 (05:01:55):
Before we get to your pictures, Dr. Kelly, I'd like you to Talk about, as you see Paitin for the first time on the table, what observations, if any, do you make about Paitin?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:02:08):
Well, first of all, she appeared to be a healthy child. She was 27 pounds, which is greater than the 99th percentile. And her body length was 42 inches, which is about average for her age. What was striking was that there were multiple ruptured blood vessels, we call those petechial hemorrhages, over her face, her scalp, in her eyes, and then along the tissues of the mucus membranes of her mouth. And they were all distributed above a horizontal line above the middle of the neck, basically. So from here up, there were multiple ruptured blood vessels in her skin.
Speaker 11 (05:03:00):
Being a forensic pathologist, had you seen these types of injuries before in cases?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:03:05):
Yes.
Speaker 11 (05:03:05):
In what types of cases?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:03:07):
Typically, we see it in ligature strangulations.
Speaker 11 (05:03:10):
Okay. And when you saw her for the first time before you even make incisions and you see these injuries, what are you thinking to yourself?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:03:16):
I'm thinking that she had been strangled with a ligature.
Speaker 11 (05:03:19):
All right. And what is a ligature?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:03:22):
A ligature is anything that would go around your neck. It can be a rope. I mean, we see frequent hangings for suicides and people use a lot of different things. They use dog leashes, they use ropes, they use electrical cords. So any of those can be ligatures.
Speaker 11 (05:03:39):
All right. So you're thinking we've got a strangulation by a ligature?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:03:43):
Correct.
Speaker 11 (05:03:44):
And what other observations did you make, if anything?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:03:48):
That there were hemorrhages in her vaginal mucosa and there were some hemorrhages in the tissue around her anus. There were small hemorrhages of her mid-back as well.
Speaker 11 (05:04:03):
Okay. Did you see anything on her hands?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:04:06):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 11 (05:04:08):
Describe what you saw.
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:04:09):
So on her, I believe, let me just double check. I think it was her right hand. Yep. It was her right palm on the palm side of her right hand. There were three little blisters on the palm of her hand, which concerned me. I wasn't sure what they were, so I actually had a dermatology person, dermatopathologist look at those with me.
Speaker 11 (05:04:36):
Okay. And we'll get to those findings in a little bit. Any other injuries that concerned you before you make incisions?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:04:45):
I think that's most of it.
Speaker 11 (05:04:47):
Okay. All right. So then after you make your observations, what do you do?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:04:53):
As I said, we then go on, once we take pictures of everything and have it all documented, then we go on and actually do the internal exam.
Speaker 11 (05:05:00):
All right. And during the internal exam, do you make any observations? Do you have any observations?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:05:06):
Yes, I did. So she also had small ruptured blood vessels in the organ called the thymus. It's an organ that sits kind of in the upper part of the neck structure, and it's very prominent in children. As we age, it goes away. We believe the organ is used, it produces lymphocytes, which are part of our immune system. And so the thymus is though to produce the lymphocytes that go throughout our life. And so as we age, the thymus gets smaller and smaller till it's basically not there anymore. So she had some ruptured blood vessels in her thymus, which also to me indicates lack of oxygen to the body or asphyxia.
(05:05:55)
Let's see what else. Oh, she had some hemorrhage in the neck muscles higher up above the hyoid bones.
Karen Kelly (05:06:00):
... muscles higher up above the hyoid bone. So there's a bone in our neck way up under our jaw. It's shaped like a horseshoe and it sits way up in the neck and it's called the hyoid bone. It's part of the respiratory system. And there was hemorrhage in the muscles in that area, way up in her neck. I believe that was what I found internally.
Jason William Smith (05:06:34):
And in the hyoid bone, is there a difference between a child's hyoid bone and an adult's hyoid bone?
Karen Kelly (05:06:37):
Usually children's bones are much more flexible, so they're less likely to break during an episode of strangulation. A lot of times in women, or if we see a strangulation, either manual by your hands or by ligature, in an older person, it may be fractured.
Jason William Smith (05:06:56):
All right. Any other observations before you do your internal? Or strike that. You've already done your internal. Any other observations about the internal?
Karen Kelly (05:07:06):
So when we reflected her scalp, what was quite impressive was the number of ruptured blood vessels beneath her scalp as well. They're florid. There are small blood vessel ruptures all over. The tissue that holds the scalp to the skull is called the galea, and that tissue was full of small petechial hemorrhages.
Jason William Smith (05:07:28):
What did that mean to you as a forensic pathologist?
Karen Kelly (05:07:32):
It meant to me... I mean, it meant that this was a significant process that in other cases of strangulation, I don't recall that I've ever seen subgaleal hemorrhages such as that.
Jason William Smith (05:07:50):
How many strangulations can you estimate that you've seen in your career?
Karen Kelly (05:07:54):
Oh, I really don't know. I don't know.
Jason William Smith (05:07:58):
Okay.
Karen Kelly (05:07:59):
But a lot.
Jason William Smith (05:08:00):
All right. And this is the first time you see these petechiae in the scalp area, is that what you're saying?
Karen Kelly (05:08:08):
This florid, correct. What
Jason William Smith (05:08:10):
Do you mean by florid?
Karen Kelly (05:08:11):
Just massive, just numerous. They're all over.
Jason William Smith (05:08:16):
And when you say significant process, what do you mean by that?
Karen Kelly (05:08:25):
That Paitin underwent strangulation that was significant in that my concern is that it possibly was repetitive, that there was maybe a release and then re-engaging of the ligature because there's so many of those hemorrhages. Now, when someone either hangs or is strangled by either a ligature or by the hands, what happens is that they're not compressing the trachea or the airway because it takes about 30 pounds of pressure to collapse the airway, and that's a lot of pressure. But there's other organs in the neck. There's the arteries, which are called the carotid arteries. Those require about 10 to 20 pounds to close off. What's really easy to close are the veins that are on the outside.
(05:09:23)
So we have the jugular veins that sit on the outside of the neck. When one gets those compressed, what happens is the blood continues to flow to the head from the arteries. The arteries carry the oxygenated blood to the brain, but the blood is no longer able to escape the brain because the veins which carry the blood back to the heart are obstructed. So what happens is the blood continues to go into the brain and then causes all these little blood vessels to rupture from the pressure. The other thing that happens is the brain starts to die because it's no longer getting oxygen and all the metabolic waste material that should be exiting through the venous system stays in the brain. So the brain actually starts to die. But what we're seeing is all those little blood vessels are ruptured because of the pressure from the ingoing blood without its ability to drain.
Jason William Smith (05:10:21):
You said it takes about 30 pounds to collapse the trachea to cut off your airway. How much for the arteries does it take?
Karen Kelly (05:10:30):
The arteries are about 10 pounds.
Jason William Smith (05:10:32):
What about your veins?
Karen Kelly (05:10:33):
The veins are like between one and three.
Jason William Smith (05:10:35):
All right. What other observations, if any, did you make after completing your external and internal examination of Paitin? Did you make any further?
Karen Kelly (05:10:55):
Well, afterwards I did histology, which is actually looking at the organs under the microscope. And she did have a pneumonia, but she was hospitalized for four days prior to her death. So that would be consistent with being possibly aspirating or swallowing or actually getting some things into her airway and then into her lungs to cause a pneumonia. So that's present.
Jason William Smith (05:11:27):
Did pneumonia cause the petechiae that you're seeing in this?
Karen Kelly (05:11:32):
Absolutely not. No.
Jason William Smith (05:11:33):
All right. Continue.
Karen Kelly (05:11:37):
The brain again had been without oxygen. And so for several days while she was on the ventilator, it continued to die. Her brain showed changes of what we call anoxic encephalopathy, which means damage to the brain from lack of oxygen and the brain starts to swell and it can no longer recover. I believe that was the majority of it.
Jason William Smith (05:12:06):
Were you able to determine by your examination of her body, the histology, were you able to determine cause of death?
Karen Kelly (05:12:15):
Yes, I was.
Jason William Smith (05:12:16):
And what was your expert opinion?
Karen Kelly (05:12:18):
My cause of death was diffuse acute cerebral hypoxic ischemia, meaning lack of brain oxygenation due to ligature strangulation.
Jason William Smith (05:12:31):
Now you said that you reduced your... Well, you took pictures, correct?
Karen Kelly (05:12:36):
Yes, that's correct.
Jason William Smith (05:12:38):
Permission to publish 80, Your Honor.
Ricardo Jensen (05:12:41):
Do these need to be restricted from the broadcast?
Jason William Smith (05:12:43):
Yes, they do, Judge.
Ricardo Jensen (05:12:44):
All right. You may publish State's Exhibit 80 and they should be restricted from the broadcast.
Jason William Smith (05:13:37):
Dr. Kelly, can you see the screen?
Karen Kelly (05:13:39):
Yes, I can. All right.
Jason William Smith (05:13:42):
And what are we looking at here?
Karen Kelly (05:13:44):
This is one of the initial photographs as Paitin's body was received from the hospital after we've opened the body bag. She still has medical intervention equipment. She's got an endotracheal tube that's covered by a cloth. You can see our case number is B173680 and the blue material is actually from donation recovery and then she has a stuffed animal with her.
Jason William Smith (05:14:13):
Is it normal for a patient that has left the hospital that has a trach tube or a breathing tube to arrive at your location with the breathing tube?
Karen Kelly (05:14:23):
Yes, actually we require it because we want to make sure that if there is some medical intervention that has occurred, that we don't mistake it for some sort of injury. We want to make sure that we know where the medical intervention material was and that it was caused by the hospital.
Jason William Smith (05:14:45):
All right. So that is picture 6596. I'm going to show you now picture 6600. What are we looking at here?
Karen Kelly (05:14:58):
We have now removed her personal effects. Again, it's just another photograph of Paitin's body. Again, the medical intervention materials are there and you can see the incisions that have occurred from the organ donation.
Jason William Smith (05:15:15):
There's a number of medical intervention equipment there, correct?
Karen Kelly (05:15:19):
Yes.
Jason William Smith (05:15:20):
You've got her breathing tube, the tape, there's something on her left shoulder. What is that left?
Karen Kelly (05:15:27):
That's called a... It's a large-bore catheter that goes into the vein called the subclavian vein that actually allows access to get medications into your system quickly.
Jason William Smith (05:15:42):
And then on her right arm, there appears to be some sort of green and white cuff. What is that?
Karen Kelly (05:15:48):
There's a blood pressure cuff. There is an identification bracelet around her wrist, and then the white wire that you see there is an oxygen saturation monitor that's on her finger. And
Jason William Smith (05:16:01):
It's normal then for all of this equipment to come to you from the hospital if they're at a hospital?
Karen Kelly (05:16:08):
That's correct. But you can also see how flushed her face is, how red her face appears compared to the rest of her body.
Jason William Smith (05:16:16):
So you're seeing this live, you're taking a picture, and when you talk about the petechiae, you just noticed to the jury her red face. What is that red? What is causing that red face?
Karen Kelly (05:16:31):
Those are the petechial hemorrhages as well as how suffused it is from the blood that, again, was up in her head and could not drain.
Jason William Smith (05:16:43):
Picture 6603, what are we looking at here?
Karen Kelly (05:16:49):
Now we're looking at a picture. This is an identification photograph. We usually take an ID photo of each person that we do an autopsy on or an external as well so that we can A, recall the person, and then if we have to identify them by a picture, we can actually show a family a picture to identify someone if we have to.
Jason William Smith (05:17:12):
It's not as revealing of injuries if they've had massive injuries below the head, is that [inaudible 05:17:18]?
Karen Kelly (05:17:18):
That's correct. So we clean them up and we take a nice picture.
Jason William Smith (05:17:21):
And this is... Do you have any observations about this picture specifically in her face?
Karen Kelly (05:17:27):
Just that it looks like there's something going on with her skin of her face. It's hard to see in this photo.
Jason William Smith (05:17:35):
6605?
Karen Kelly (05:17:44):
This is what we call a one, two, three. We start with the top of the head and do a third of the body all the way down. Again, just taking pictures so we have everything documented.
Jason William Smith (05:17:57):
Now we see some bruising on her right arm. You've taken out the cord in her left shoulder area. Were you concerned about the bruising on her right arm?
Karen Kelly (05:18:09):
No, I believe there was an IV catheter there.
Jason William Smith (05:18:20):
6606?
Karen Kelly (05:18:21):
Again, just a lower portion of her body. There was also a line in her left groin where you see the small bruise on the left.
Jason William Smith (05:18:30):
So we have that right arm in the fold of her right arm. You believe that the bruising is caused for medical intervention at the hospital, correct?
Karen Kelly (05:18:40):
That's correct.
Jason William Smith (05:18:41):
A little bit of bruising on her left arm and the fold of her left arm. Did you make any observation about that?
Karen Kelly (05:18:49):
It's most likely from an IV.
Jason William Smith (05:18:54):
Okay. And then you said, you already pointed it out to the jury. Is this the area that you were talking about? There's another line there.
Karen Kelly (05:19:00):
Yeah, that's correct. There was a large caliber, large bore, as we call it, line in the groin.
Jason William Smith (05:19:08):
Okay. And is that normal medical intervention?
Karen Kelly (05:19:11):
Yes, it is.
Jason William Smith (05:19:19):
6607?
Karen Kelly (05:19:20):
Again, just the lower part of her body, which shows a toe tag on the left from the hospital, and then another ID or some sort of alert band on her ankle.
Jason William Smith (05:19:33):
Okay. We see something on her right leg. You weren't here for Dr. Stoiko or Dr. McGrath. Do you know if there was medical intervention at some point that caused that spot on her right leg?
Karen Kelly (05:19:49):
Yes, it would be my opinion that it's from an intraosseous line.
Jason William Smith (05:20:03):
I'm going to take you to 6609. Now we've gone from the third, the third, a third, or the one, two, three as you call it. Now, what are you trying to document now?
Karen Kelly (05:20:16):
Well, now we move to more specific areas where we see changes. And so now what we're looking at, anytime that we are concerned about strangulation, we look in the eyes. A lot of times with strangulations, you will get little small hemorrhages in the eyes, in the lids or on the sclera, which is the white part. This is her right eye and her nose is more down towards the right corner of the photo. You can see her right eye and we're pulling it down with a forcep, and you can see that there are petechial hemorrhages in the lower eyelid on the right.
Jason William Smith (05:20:58):
And is this significant for you as a forensic pathologist?
Karen Kelly (05:21:02):
Absolutely.
Jason William Smith (05:21:12):
6611?
Karen Kelly (05:21:14):
This is the upper lid of her right eye, and I believe there's some discoloration on the inner edge and on the lateral outer edge as well. So there may be some areas of hemorrhage there.
Jason William Smith (05:21:34):
6613.
Karen Kelly (05:21:35):
Now what we've done here is we've actually lifted up her upper lip. So we're looking at the upper teeth, you can see that are there. Now that little line in the middle, it's called the frenulum, and we look for any injury there. Sometimes when people are strangled or suffocated, they can actually have trauma to the frenulum, but that's not present, but you can see little red dots on the inner surface of the upper lip. Again, those are petechial hemorrhages.
Jason William Smith (05:22:05):
And was this significant for you?
Karen Kelly (05:22:10):
Absolutely.
Jason William Smith (05:22:19):
6615?
Karen Kelly (05:22:21):
6615 shows this is... We've taken the lower lip and pulled it down so that we can see the inner surface of that as well. The frenulum is intact, so that's fine. But again, there's multiple petechial hemorrhages over the inner lining of the lower lip.
Jason William Smith (05:22:39):
And out of the, excuse me, many, many strangulations that you've seen, is it often that you see petechiae in the gums?
Karen Kelly (05:22:49):
Not often, no.
Jason William Smith (05:22:50):
What does that signify to you though?
Karen Kelly (05:22:52):
Again, just that there are so many that it was a significant strangulation is all I can say.
Jason William Smith (05:23:01):
Is it significant by time? Was it significant by force? What was it?
Karen Kelly (05:23:12):
Probably both. Probably both. And again, it concerns me that there may have been repetitive strangulation, so release and then tightening again. I can't say that for sure, but that's my concern because there's so many hemorrhages.
Jason William Smith (05:23:37):
6616?
Karen Kelly (05:23:40):
On this photograph, you're beginning to see the number of petechial hemorrhages in her face on her left cheek. We've now also pulled up the left upper eyelid and there's petechial hemorrhages there as well. And all the redness that you're seeing on her face, those are little tiny blood vessels that are ruptured.
Jason William Smith (05:24:01):
That is because there's blood above her neckline that cannot retrieve from the brain area, is that correct?
Karen Kelly (05:24:08):
That's correct, yes.
Jason William Smith (05:24:17):
6617?
Karen Kelly (05:24:19):
This is just a closeup of the left upper eyelid, and you can actually see that there is hemorrhage on the inner surface of the left upper eyelid towards the nose, and then you can again see the numerous petechial hemorrhages over her face.
Jason William Smith (05:24:39):
6619?
Karen Kelly (05:24:41):
This, again, shows the lower left eyelid, and again, you can see the number of vessels that have ruptured in that eyelid.
Jason William Smith (05:24:49):
6622?
Karen Kelly (05:24:55):
This is actually a picture of the outside of her vagina.
Jason William Smith (05:25:00):
Did you make any findings from this picture?
Karen Kelly (05:25:03):
From this picture, I don't think so.
Jason William Smith (05:25:13):
6623.
Karen Kelly (05:25:18):
I believe this is... There is up where the glove is towards the top. Can I come down?
Jason William Smith (05:25:29):
Judge, may I have the doctor step down, please?
Ricardo Jensen (05:25:32):
You may step down.
Karen Kelly (05:25:33):
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Jason William Smith (05:25:42):
Dr. Kelly, I'm going to give you a pointer and sort of have you describe what we're seeing in this photograph, 6623.
Karen Kelly (05:25:51):
Thank you. So what we're looking at here are her labia, which are right here. And because she's a child, they're not well-formed, but you can see here's the clitoris right up here, and in this area right here, there is an area of hemorrhage right adjacent to or next to and slightly below the clitoris.
Jason William Smith (05:26:16):
Would that be her clitoral hood?
Karen Kelly (05:26:19):
Yes.
Jason William Smith (05:26:20):
Just stay there, Dr. Kelly.
Karen Kelly (05:26:21):
Thank you.
Jason William Smith (05:26:32):
So we're looking at 6624. Can you describe what we're seeing here?
Karen Kelly (05:26:38):
Certainly. So what we're seeing is her kind of upside down. You can see this is her head. Here's her ears. We're looking... Here's her number. We always orient the number towards the head, so we know where we are. What you're seeing here, see all the numerous blood vessels in her face that are ruptured. What we're looking at here is a line across her neck here and here, indicating that there was a ligature across her neck that went horizontally. And what happens when you put pressure on any tissue with something like a ligature, what the ligature does is it pushes on the tissues and pushes the blood out from underneath a bit so that the blood actually pools on either side of the central part of the ligature. That's why it looks like it's clear where the ligature is, but it actually pushes the blood outside of where the ligature is. So this looks more intact, but we know that these... So this is where about the edges of the ligature would've been. And then we have some other little areas of abrasion over here where the ligature possibly separated to compress or abrade the skin. So an abrasion is what we call blunt trauma. Like if you fall and skin your knee, that's an abrasion. So there's abraded areas over here on her left side.
Jason William Smith (05:28:12):
So let me clarify. If we're looking at 6624, we see a red line here and we see a red line here, what you're saying is that is not where the ligature is. The ligature is causing the red line because it's pushing the blood out, correct?
Karen Kelly (05:28:32):
That's correct. So the ligature would be in between those two lines.
Jason William Smith (05:28:35):
All right. Do you see any other, in this photograph, anything else that sort of dissects that area where the ligature is or was?
Karen Kelly (05:28:48):
Well, there is kind of a little mark here that maybe caused another compression, kind of a maybe horseshoe or J-shaped lesion there.
Jason William Smith (05:29:00):
All right. I'm going to sort of zoom in on this area. Can you see that better?
Karen Kelly (05:29:12):
Yes.
Jason William Smith (05:29:13):
All right. Now, again, describe what we're seeing here.
Karen Kelly (05:29:22):
Again, this is just a closeup of what we were looking at just a second ago, and you can see there's kind of a line here that goes like this, indicating there may have been something else there in addition or in association with the ligature is all I can say.
Jason William Smith (05:29:40):
And you said also, let me point to you, you said this area right here looks like it's, as you said, abrased.
Karen Kelly (05:29:46):
Abraded.
Jason William Smith (05:29:48):
Abraded.
Karen Kelly (05:29:49):
Yes.
Jason William Smith (05:29:49):
What do you mean by that?
Karen Kelly (05:29:51):
Again, the skin surface has been rubbed off, basically. The other thing is that there's kind of a separation here. There's almost like a V, so there may have been a split of whatever the ligature was to allow the skin to be between us.
Jason William Smith (05:30:19):
6625, what are we looking at here?
Karen Kelly (05:30:23):
It's kind of out of focus, but it's the same, basically the same thing. You can see that these lines are horizontal. They go all the way across. Typically, when we're looking at a ligature strangulation, we're looking to see if it has any upward movement or if it's horizontal. And in this case, you can see that the whole ligature in the front of the neck is horizontal, which we usually see with a ligature strangulation performed by... That someone else has done. With hanging, it goes upward in the back because usually the knot's in the back of the head, but with a ligature strangulation, usually the lines are horizontal.
Jason William Smith (05:31:05):
In this photograph, the 6625, let me zoom in a little bit. Do we see that area, that horseshoe area that you were talking about?
Karen Kelly (05:31:15):
We do right there.
Jason William Smith (05:31:16):
All right.
Karen Kelly (05:31:17):
And you can see, again, the petechial hemorrhages are really prominent.
Jason William Smith (05:31:23):
Do we also see that abrasion area?
Karen Kelly (05:31:26):
Yes. Down here.
Jason William Smith (05:31:27):
All right.
Karen Kelly (05:31:27):
Right here. Yep.
Jason William Smith (05:31:37):
Dr. Kelly, I'm going to go back to 6624. In your report, you made some findings about width and measurements of this wound. Do you remember right offhand or do you need your report?
Karen Kelly (05:31:55):
No, I remember. So when we look at a ligature mark, we're approximating the width of it because what we're measuring is between the two lines that the blood has formed, the upper and lower edges. So what we're measuring is in this intact area, which is about a quarter inch in this case.
Jason William Smith (05:32:17):
In Paitin's case is about a quarter inch?
Karen Kelly (05:32:21):
That's correct.
Jason William Smith (05:32:22):
And again, for a ligature to cause a quarter inch area of...
Karen Kelly (05:32:33):
Clearing?
Jason William Smith (05:32:33):
Clear, yes. How big does the ligature need to be?
Karen Kelly (05:32:38):
Well, it would be on, you know, approximately a quarter inch, three sixteenths, which is slightly less than a quarter inch. It cannot be... Obviously, it can't be half an inch. It can't be more than a quarter inch.
Jason William Smith (05:32:51):
Because a half an inch is more than a quarter inch.
Karen Kelly (05:32:53):
That's right.
Jason William Smith (05:32:54):
So it's got to be somewhat smaller than a quarter inch?
Karen Kelly (05:32:57):
Correct.
Jason William Smith (05:32:58):
Now, you said here that we have some separation on the left-hand side of this photograph, that V area. Can I go back to your pointer?
Karen Kelly (05:33:08):
Sure.
Jason William Smith (05:33:08):
And you said in this area where it could have separated. When you're talking about measurements and size of ligature, what does that tell you?
Karen Kelly (05:33:19):
That it may have been more than one component, that there's two components to it that were separated so that the skin got caught between them. So if we have a ligature like a belt, we often can see either a buckle mark or some of the round holes. Those can actually show up in the neck. If we have a rope, typically with a rope, we will see... Most ropes are twisted. We will see the actual twisting pattern on the edges of the margin. We actually see the pattern. And so to me, this indicates that there was something that was separated so that the skin got caught in between them.
Jason William Smith (05:34:01):
Could it be two strands of something?
Karen Kelly (05:34:03):
Could be, yes.
Jason William Smith (05:34:04):
Do you see... Well, we'll get to it. You said rope. Do we see any sign of rope?
Karen Kelly (05:34:09):
Absolutely not.
Jason William Smith (05:34:10):
All right. Any sign of a belt in this?
Karen Kelly (05:34:12):
No.
Jason William Smith (05:34:22):
Now, I'm going to the 6625, because you said that you measured and approximated a quarter inch between the marks where the ligature would be. Was that consistent all the way around? How hard is it to measure when you have skin and wounds like this?
Karen Kelly (05:34:43):
Well, first of all, you have elasticity in the skin, so the skin will actually change the measurements as it's compressed. The other thing is that with Paitin, she was in the hospital for four days, and so there is some element of healing going on as well, which can also change what we see as well as the dimensions. But this is very... I feel very strongly that this is around a quarter of an inch, which we haven't seen the back of her neck yet, but those I measured at 3/16ths. So again, they're very close to a quarter inch.
Jason William Smith (05:35:21):
Right. 3/16ths for the non-math people.
Karen Kelly (05:35:26):
Is one 16th less than a quarter inch. So four-sixteenths is a quarter inch.
Jason William Smith (05:35:32):
Thank you.
Karen Kelly (05:35:33):
Yes.
Jason William Smith (05:35:42):
6626.
Karen Kelly (05:35:44):
So 6626, what we're looking at here, this is her left ear, and you can see on the left side of her body, this actually looks different. This looks like an abrasion. So like I said, if you skin your knee, And the skin comes off, that's an abrasion. And it looks like it's healing to me because she survived for four days. So she's going to be healing this area. But again, what's important is there are some hemorrhages along this side of the neck as well, and this is all horizontal. So it would be my opinion that the ligature went all the way around her neck. There may have been some abrasion of the skin if she was fighting or if she was trying to get away from what was happening, that the ligature could have abraded her skin in some areas.
Jason William Smith (05:36:50):
6627?
Karen Kelly (05:36:52):
Again, this is just a closeup of what we were just looking at. Again, you can see there's some hemorrhages here and then this horizontal line, which again is a continuation of what was over the front of her neck. This is the left side of her neck. And again, I believe I measured that at 3/16 inch.
Jason William Smith (05:37:18):
6631?
Karen Kelly (05:37:20):
This is actually, it's hard to tell, but this is her right shoulder and this is her right... Her ear is up here. So this is the back of her scalp. So this is the right side of her neck. And there's still some petechial hemorrhages and some changes that look like the ligature went across the right side of her neck as well.
Jason William Smith (05:37:54):
Let me go back... I'm sorry. Let me go back to that photograph. There's one place on her area right here that looks different than the other parts of her face. Could you opine on, is that a bruise? Could it have been a bruise?
Karen Kelly (05:38:08):
It could be. Yeah, it could be. It looks different than the petechial hemorrhages. I don't know why it's there.
Jason William Smith (05:38:18):
6632.
Karen Kelly (05:38:20):
6632, this is the back of her neck. We've now put her on her stomach. So you can see her right ear is here. Again, we have this line that continues even though there's an eruption here, but there is a horizontal abrasion that goes across her neck and then onto the right side of her neck. Why there's an area that's without that abrasion, I'm not sure, but it continues onto the right side.
Jason William Smith (05:38:56):
6633?
Karen Kelly (05:38:58):
Close up of the prior one we were seeing. And you can see again, this all looks like healing abrasion to me all the way across. And again, horizontal.
Jason William Smith (05:39:07):
And it goes down into her neck also.
Karen Kelly (05:39:13):
Onto her posterior neck.
Jason William Smith (05:39:14):
6636?
Karen Kelly (05:39:23):
6636, this is a palm of her right hand and it has those blisters right here that we were talking about. Now this most likely is from, there's something going on here. She might have had an arterial line in that wrist, but you can see the blisters are here that we were talking about earlier.
Jason William Smith (05:39:42):
And you said that when you were testifying earlier that you consulted a dermatologist or a-
Karen Kelly (05:39:49):
Dermatopathologist, correct.
Jason William Smith (05:39:52):
What were any findings from this?
Karen Kelly (05:39:56):
So it was what we call a crusted lesion. It had a crust over it of acute-
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:40:00):
... lesion. It had a crust over it of acute inflammation. We were never able to identify... To me, it looks viral, and I'm not sure what it is, but none of the stains were positive for any of the viruses that would usually cause something like this. A pediatrician, I believe, called this impetigo, but I don't know that it usually rises on the hands. But it is a lesion that was there that shouldn't be.
Attorney Smitt (05:40:43):
All right. 6639, what are we looking at?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:40:46):
This is... Now we've put her face down again. This is the anus.
Attorney Smitt (05:40:51):
And what findings did you make regarding her anus?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:40:55):
I don't... So there is an area here that was possibly a laceration, but it's not shown very well.
Attorney Smitt (05:41:06):
Were you able to see it grossly or with your eyes?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:41:09):
Yes. Yes. I'm not seeing it very well here.
Attorney Smitt (05:41:15):
Would you have documented that in your report?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:41:15):
Yes.
Attorney Smitt (05:41:15):
I'm going to hand you State's Exhibit 79.
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:41:16):
Thank you.
(05:41:16)
In my report, I only mentioned the vaginal hemorrhage, but I did see some... So I took sections, histology sections of the entire anus around, and I don't recall that I saw much.
Attorney Smitt (05:42:10):
Okay. Now, you got her some days after she was admitted to the hospital. Correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:42:16):
That's correct. Now, the other thing with postmortem anus is they can dilate. They become what they call patulous. They dilate, and they can often look abnormal, but may not be. So the actual examination by the people when she was alive is much more accurate than looking at the anus postmortem.
Attorney Smitt (05:42:49):
6640?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:42:51):
Again, just a little bit different. There may be some hemorrhage right along here, which I would call the 3:00 margin, because this is 6:00, that's 12:00. So I would say 3:00. It's a little red there.
Attorney Smitt (05:43:06):
But you said just previously that the people that saw her when she was alive when she entered the hospital would be able to see better than you could postmortem. Is that correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:43:19):
Absolutely. Correct.
Attorney Smitt (05:43:29):
6646?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:43:31):
This is a picture of her back. Again, you can see the linear horizontal line, the abrasion in her blisters on her right hand.
Attorney Smitt (05:43:43):
Did you make any notations or any observations? Was there any trauma to her back that you remember?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:43:49):
I do. There was a small bruise. Let me just see where that was. There was a small bruise on her mid-back, I believe, but it's hard to see. I don't see it here.
Attorney Smitt (05:44:07):
When you do an autopsy, especially in a child, are there times that you go into more detail when you're cutting open and looking underneath the skin for trauma?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:44:22):
Yes. Unfortunately, in cases that are child abuse or some sort of a homicide case in a baby, we do a much more extensive examination than you do in a normal child, let's say, that was co-sleeping or might have pneumonia. In this instance, we actually take the eyes, we take the spinal cord, we take the brain, and we send that to a specialist. We actually do what we call a cutdown, which is basically cutting from the tissues on the upper back, make an incision, and then we reflect all the skin so that we can actually see the muscle tissues as well. Sometimes, especially in dark-skinned people, we may not see bruises on the surface of the skin. So when we actually do the reflection of the skin, we can sometimes see hemorrhage or bruises in the muscles that we couldn't see from the surface.
Attorney Smitt (05:45:21):
Is that what happened in this case that you believe?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:45:23):
Yes.
Attorney Smitt (05:45:37):
6647?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:45:39):
This is just the buttocks region.
Attorney Smitt (05:45:46):
6648?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:45:47):
Again, just the lower one-third of her body.
Attorney Smitt (05:45:50):
Kind of a one, two, three, but now on the back?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:45:53):
Correct.
Attorney Smitt (05:45:58):
6654?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:45:59):
Now, this is the vagina again, so we're going back down. Again, here's her clitoral hood right here. The clitoris is underneath there. Now we've actually spread open the vaginal walls, and you can see there's hemorrhage here. I would call this 12:00. So this is 11:00, there's hemorrhage here. There's hemorrhage here along the 2:00 to 3:00. And then this hemorrhage is quite obvious, and that's from 3: 00 to 6:00.
Attorney Smitt (05:46:44):
6655?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:46:45):
Same photo, a little less obvious, but again, here's the 3:00 to 6:00 hemorrhage and then here's the 11:00 ish hemorrhage. The other one is a little harder to see in this picture.
Attorney Smitt (05:46:57):
And you've made some findings regarding vaginal injuries, correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:47:01):
Correct.
Attorney Smitt (05:47:02):
And is this indicative of some sort of penetrating vaginal trauma?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:47:10):
It's my opinion it is, yes.
Attorney Smitt (05:47:18):
6656?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:47:20):
Same picture, just a little further back. Again, we can see hemorrhage here, here, and over here.
Attorney Smitt (05:47:26):
Now, you don't have the clitoral hood open that you could see that previous. Is that correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:47:31):
That's correct.
Attorney Smitt (05:47:31):
But there is another hemorrhage?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:47:34):
Yes, that was above up here where the clitoris was.
Attorney Smitt (05:47:44):
All right. So, disturbing photograph, but necessary for medical diagnosis, is that correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:47:52):
Absolutely.
Attorney Smitt (05:47:53):
What are we looking at?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:47:54):
So what we've done is, as I said earlier, we've taken and made an incision in the back of her scalp here, and we've reflected the scalp forward. So the scalp is basically covering her face. So Paitin's face is under here. This is the top of her skull or the calvarium. This tissue, the white tissue that you're seeing, is actually called the galea, which attaches the scalp to the skull so that it doesn't come off easily. And you can see again the number of broken blood vessels and petechial hemorrhages in that tissue between the scalp and the skull.
Attorney Smitt (05:48:34):
Can this petechiae and what you're seeing in this photograph be caused by illness?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:48:39):
No, absolutely not.
Attorney Smitt (05:48:41):
And in your medical opinion, your forensic pathological or forensic pathology opinion, what caused this type of injury?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:48:50):
These small blood vessels are ruptured due to the ligature strangulation. Now, if there was an illness, typically we would see changes all over the body, not just in a localized fashion above a specific line. And when we looked at the brain, there was no disease processes seen other than the lack of oxygen.
Attorney Smitt (05:49:15):
Thank you, Dr. Kelly. Dr. Kelly, we've gone over it in detail with pictures in your testimony. Did you see any other petechiae, meaning bursting of blood vessels, anywhere below the ligature mark on Paitin's neck?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:49:53):
We saw them in the thymus, but that's as a reaction to lack of oxygen, and we saw hemorrhage in the upper part of her neck, again, due to the strangulation, but I did not see them anywhere else that wasn't associated with the ligature.
Attorney Smitt (05:50:08):
All right. Now you've opined, you weren't there, correct, when Paitin was assaulted?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:50:15):
Obviously, no.
Attorney Smitt (05:50:16):
And you said that you don't believe it was caused by a rope because you didn't find evidence of rope pattern. Is that correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:50:27):
That's correct.
Attorney Smitt (05:50:29):
You don't believe it was caused by a belt, but at least... Well, you don't believe it was caused by a belt because you didn't see holes or buckle, and it would have to be a pretty small belt. Is that right?
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:50:41):
It would have to be a quarter of an inch or less, correct.
Attorney Smitt (05:50:45):
All right. Judge, at this time, it's about 3:30. We're at a good segue with this witness. Thank you.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (05:50:56):
Members of the jury, we're going to go ahead and take our mid-afternoon break. Close up your notebooks. Remember, it's very important that you not discuss this case amongst yourselves while you are away from the courtroom. Do not have any contact with any of the parties, attorneys, or witnesses. Do not discuss this case with anybody else. Do not conduct your own independent investigation. Do not post online on any social media sites. We'll go ahead and excuse you for about 15 minutes. Thank you.
Speaker 12 (05:51:26):
Thank you, Your Honor. You will leave the closed notebooks in your chair. When you're ready, front row and back, this way, please.
(05:51:32)
Jurors left the courtroom.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (05:52:07):
Thank you, sir. Let the record reflect that the jury has exited the courtroom. Dr. Kelly, at this time, you can step down.
Dr. Karen Kelly (05:52:12):
Thank you, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (05:52:14):
Is there anything that we need to discuss on behalf of the State?
Attorney Smitt (05:52:16):
No, Your Honor.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (05:52:17):
On behalf of the Defense?
Attorney Britt (05:52:18):
No, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (05:52:18):
We'll be at ease for the next 15 minutes.
(05:52:20)
Jury back in.
Speaker 12 (05:52:20):
Bringing the jury.
(05:52:20)
Jury seated, Your Honor.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:08:13):
Thank you, sir. Let the record reflect that the jury has reentered the courtroom.
(06:08:24)
Mr. Smith, you may continue.
Attorney Smitt (06:08:25):
Thank you, Your Honor.
(06:08:27)
Dr. Kelly, is it common for pathologists or medical examiners to conference with law enforcement officials?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:08:36):
Oh, very commonly, yes.
Attorney Smitt (06:08:38):
And why is that?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:08:41):
Typically, when law enforcement comes to an autopsy, they've already generated a theory of the crime, and my job is to determine if that theory fits with what they think happened. Sometimes their theories don't work, and I can tell them that, and they need to go back and figure something else out, but sometimes they do have the right idea. And sometimes it's later when more information comes forward that we are recontacted by law enforcement about a case if something has come to light that they feel we should know, and they may ask us if it is consistent what we saw at the autopsy.
Attorney Smitt (06:09:30):
And in this case, Detective Leatherwood attended the autopsy, correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:09:35):
Yes, that's correct.
Attorney Smitt (06:09:36):
And then at some point, were you contacted by Detective Eric Short regarding this case?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:09:43):
Yes, I was. I believe it was years later.
Attorney Smitt (06:09:46):
Okay. When you were talking to Eric Short, was it about possible ligatures?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:09:52):
Yes, that's correct.
Attorney Smitt (06:09:55):
Did he talk to you about a pair of earbuds?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:09:59):
Yes, he did.
Attorney Smitt (06:10:00):
Can you talk to the jury about that discussion with Detective Eric Short?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:10:09):
Basically, Detective Short asked me if these could be-
Attorney Britt (06:10:12):
Objection.
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:10:14):
Sorry?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:10:14):
Sustained.
Attorney Smitt (06:10:23):
At some point, he sent you pictures, correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:10:28):
Yes, that's correct.
Attorney Smitt (06:10:28):
Of a pair of earbuds?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:10:29):
Yes.
Attorney Smitt (06:10:31):
And were those red in color?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:10:32):
Yes, they were.
Attorney Smitt (06:10:35):
Based upon those pictures of the earbuds and what you knew about this case from, excuse me, examining Paitin and specifically the size of the ligature mark, did you believe those earbuds were consistent with what caused strangulation to change?
Attorney Britt (06:10:54):
Objection.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:10:55):
Overruled.
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:10:56):
That was my opinion that they were consistent with the ligature, yes.
Attorney Smitt (06:11:00):
May I approach the witness, Judge?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:11:01):
You may.
Attorney Smitt (06:11:04):
And you were sent with pictures, you weren't sent the earbuds at that time, correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:11:07):
That's correct.
Attorney Smitt (06:11:19):
For Paitin's injuries, as you documented and discussed with the jury, you found a couple of data points regarding that, correct? The data point being the size of the possible ligature, you said, a quarter of an inch or smaller?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:11:42):
Yes, correct.
Attorney Smitt (06:11:43):
Based upon what you're seeing. And then you saw something that showed a U or a horseshoe-type formation. Is that correct?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:11:50):
Yes, that's correct.
Attorney Smitt (06:11:52):
So I'm going to show you what's been admitted as State's Exhibit 47. State's Exhibit 47 appears to be a Dirt Devil vacuum cleaner with a cord attached. Do you think it's possible that the ligature mark on Paitin's neck could be caused by this particular... You need gloves?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:12:24):
Yeah, I think I want to see it closer if I can. Because it looks like there's almost a pattern in it. I can't tell really. So this has horizontal lines all the way along the length of it. So I would say this is not consistent because we would see those horizontal lines in her skin.
Attorney Smitt (06:12:56):
I'll show you State's Exhibit 46. So what's already previously been admitted to State's Exhibit 46. Is this consistent with the injuries caused by... Or is it consistent with something that caused the injuries to Paitin's neck?
Dr. Karen Kelly (06:13:42):
I'd have to measure it, but I think it could be other than I don't see anything that has the horseshoe shape associated with it.
Attorney Smitt (06:13:55):
I'll show you State's Exhibit 45.
Speaker 13 (06:14:00):
45.
Dr. Kelly (06:14:07):
Again, that's a possibility, but there's no horseshoe shaped element.
Speaker 13 (06:14:20):
I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 44.
Dr. Kelly (06:14:32):
Again, I'd have to measure it, but I think there's nothing associated that could make a horseshoe shaped pattern.
Speaker 13 (06:14:50):
I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 43. And I believe that you've seen, at least in picture, State's Exhibit 43.
Dr. Kelly (06:15:00):
That's correct. This could be consistent with the horseshoe pattern that we see.
Speaker 13 (06:15:12):
And this appears to be smaller than a quarter inch?
Dr. Kelly (06:15:15):
It does.
Speaker 13 (06:15:16):
And you said before that there was a pattern on Peyton's neck where you believe that the ligature could have separated and abrased-
Dr. Kelly (06:15:26):
Abraded.
Speaker 13 (06:15:28):
Abraded the skin.
Dr. Kelly (06:15:30):
Correct.
Speaker 13 (06:15:31):
If you fold this in half or fold it any other way or double it or triple it up, could it be consistent with the injuries that caused on Peyton's neck?
Dr. Kelly (06:15:42):
It's consistent with, yes.
Speaker 13 (06:15:45):
And does this have a U-shape or a horse shape?
Dr. Kelly (06:15:49):
It does, yes.
Speaker 13 (06:15:50):
Consistent with?
Dr. Kelly (06:15:52):
The pattern injury that we see, correct.
Speaker 13 (06:16:16):
Thank you Dr. Kelly.
Dr. Kelly (06:16:16):
Thank you.
Speaker 13 (06:16:23):
Dr. Kelly, did you go back at some point after your autopsy and over the years and go back and re-look at some of your histology slides?
Dr. Kelly (06:16:34):
Yes, I did.
Speaker 13 (06:16:34):
And what was the purpose of that?
Dr. Kelly (06:16:36):
So when we take histology, we're only... The tissue sections that they create are very, very thin. They're microns thin so that we can actually stain the slides and then look at them under a microscope so the light will project through them and we can see the tissue. When I did my initial autopsy, I did not see any hemorrhage, which would be indicative of trauma in the anal or the vaginal sections. Which did not mean it wasn't there because we obviously saw it on the photographs. But in my slides, I did not see it on the initial examination.
(06:17:19)
I went back to the lab and I asked them to cut deeper sections into the tissue, stain those so I could see if there was any hemorrhage. Again, anytime you have injury to a tissue, you're going to have breaking of blood vessels. And you're going to have blood that goes out into the surrounding tissues. So I was looking for that specifically. And I was able to identify hemorrhage in the vaginal sections, in the deeper tissue sections.
Speaker 13 (06:17:49):
So the pictures we saw, and you pointed out to the jury that you saw these hemorrhages at, I believe you said 11 o'clock, you saw it in the three o'clock, somewhere between the-
Dr. Kelly (06:17:58):
3:00 and 6:00.
Speaker 13 (06:18:00):
... five and the six o'clock or four and the six o'clock, you could see those with your eyes?
Dr. Kelly (06:18:05):
That's correct.
Speaker 13 (06:18:05):
And we call that-
Dr. Kelly (06:18:07):
Gross examination, correct.
Speaker 13 (06:18:08):
Gross examination. Then you take slides, or excuse me, cuttings, and then you're looking at then under the microscope to see, do those microscopic examinations line up with what you're seeing? Is that correct?
Dr. Kelly (06:18:24):
That's correct.
Speaker 13 (06:18:25):
And at first you didn't see in the microscopic slides hemorrhaging. But you went back and looked and then found microscopic hemorrhages in the slides?
Dr. Kelly (06:18:37):
That's correct. For the vagina in the deeper tissues, that's correct.
Speaker 13 (06:18:41):
And what about the anus?
Dr. Kelly (06:18:43):
I don't recall seeing hemorrhage there, to my recollection.
Speaker 13 (06:18:49):
All right. Again, you previously testified that the anus postmortem is difficult to examine?
Dr. Kelly (06:18:58):
Yes, correct.
Speaker 13 (06:18:59):
And I believe in your report on one of the pages you said something about a possible... Do you have your report in front of you?
Dr. Kelly (06:19:11):
I do.
Speaker 13 (06:19:33):
Just a minute. You said in your report that temperature probe inserted into the anus cannot be ruled out as the cause of a perirectal hemorrhage. Is that correct?
Dr. Kelly (06:19:51):
Yes.
Speaker 13 (06:19:52):
You say in your report too, a focal perirectal hemorrhage was seen closely and microscopically.
Dr. Kelly (06:19:58):
Correct. And perirectal means on outside or surrounding the rectum.
Speaker 13 (06:20:02):
All right. May I approach the witness, Judge?
Judge (06:20:02):
You may.
Speaker 13 (06:21:06):
I'm going to show you State's Exhibit 81. Do you recognize State's Exhibit 81?
Dr. Kelly (06:21:11):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 13 (06:21:12):
And what is 81?
Dr. Kelly (06:21:13):
State's Exhibit 81 is a letter that I wrote to DA Smith after I had reviewed the deeper tissue section slide saying that there was hemorrhage after reviewing the deeper tissue.
Speaker 13 (06:21:33):
All right. Move to introduce State's Exhibit 81, Judge.
Judge (06:21:36):
Any objection?
Speaker 14 (06:21:37):
No, sir.
Judge (06:21:38):
State's Exhibit 81 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 13 (06:21:41):
All right. And again, your expert medical opinion based upon your training and experience as a forensic pathologist is what's the cause of death of Peyton Fields?
Dr. Kelly (06:21:55):
Again, her cause of death was diffuse acute cerebral hypoxic ischemia. Again, lack of oxygen to the brain due to ligature strangulation.
Speaker 13 (06:22:08):
And did she have any other trauma to her body?
Dr. Kelly (06:22:13):
Yes, there was vaginal hemorrhage.
Speaker 13 (06:22:15):
And is that consistent with some sort of penetrating trauma to her vagina?
Dr. Kelly (06:22:19):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 13 (06:22:20):
And as to the anus, what is your opinion regarding the anus?
Dr. Kelly (06:22:25):
It would be my opinion that the sexual assault nurses and physicians would have a better opinion than postmortem.
Speaker 13 (06:22:34):
All right. No further questions for this [inaudible 06:22:47] Judge.
Judge (06:22:49):
Cross examination?
Speaker 14 (06:22:50):
Yes, sir. Good afternoon, Dr. Kelly.
Dr. Kelly (06:22:52):
Good afternoon.
Speaker 14 (06:23:00):
I want to ask you some questions about the back of Peyton's neck.
Dr. Kelly (06:23:05):
Yes.
Speaker 14 (06:23:06):
You said there was an abrasion?
Dr. Kelly (06:23:07):
Yes.
Speaker 14 (06:23:09):
Can you define abrasion for the jury, please?
Dr. Kelly (06:23:12):
As I said earlier, it's basically some surface that disrupts the epithelial surface of the skin. So the outer surface is taken off by an object.
Speaker 14 (06:23:27):
And was that abrasion area along the back of her neck similar to the marks that you noted on the front of her neck?
Dr. Kelly (06:23:37):
It was similar in width. It was similar as far as its width, but it looked more abraded in the back than in the front.
Speaker 14 (06:24:11):
The marks around her neck, were they all consistent in terms of donor breaks in the mark or in size?
Dr. Kelly (06:24:23):
There was a break in the mid-back, which I think I mentioned on the pictures. And I do not know why it was broken in that area.
Speaker 14 (06:24:51):
And the abrasion mark you looked at the front, that's the area above what I'm going to call the clear line between the two lines?
Dr. Kelly (06:25:02):
The clear area between the two lines is not an abrasion. That's just an area that where the blood was compressed out by the ligature.
Speaker 14 (06:25:10):
Would that have been where the ligature was placed?
Dr. Kelly (06:25:11):
Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 14 (06:25:29):
When the autopsy was completed or even maybe before, sorry, did you talk with those individuals present as to the circumstances of finding this young lady?
Dr. Kelly (06:25:46):
I don't recall, I think that... Let me look at my summary. I believe that I had been told the family said she had an upper respiratory infection, and that she was just found seizing and brought to the hospital. I don't believe I had any further information at that point.
Speaker 14 (06:26:13):
You noted in your exam that she had a form of pneumonia?
Dr. Kelly (06:26:18):
Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 14 (06:26:20):
Was that as a result of her vomiting and swallowing?
Dr. Kelly (06:26:26):
Most likely, correct. Aspiration is what we call that. Aspiration Pneumonia, and it's common in people that have been resuscitated and then are on a ventilator for several days.
Speaker 14 (06:26:39):
And with the pneumonia being present, her airway was partially obstructed?
Dr. Kelly (06:26:48):
No, her airway was not obstructed.
Speaker 14 (06:26:50):
It was not obstructed by pneumonia?
Dr. Kelly (06:26:53):
Well, no. So the pneumonia is in the lung tissue itself. It's not in the airway specifically.
Speaker 14 (06:27:19):
In this area on the back of her neck where there was the break, was that visible in the photographs that we saw?
Dr. Kelly (06:27:28):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 14 (06:27:33):
Did either Detective Leatherman or did... Not either. Did Detective Leatherman, that he suspected that this was a ligature strangulation by use of a rope?
Dr. Kelly (06:27:55):
I don't recall that, no.
Speaker 14 (06:27:57):
In the aftermath of the autopsy, in talking about the theory of the homicide, that wasn't mentioned to you?
Dr. Kelly (06:28:06):
I don't recall. It's been quite a few years. But I would tell them it wasn't consistent with a rope.
Speaker 14 (06:28:17):
Are you saying that the ligature mark on her neck is consistent with multiple strands of something being wrapped around her?
Dr. Kelly (06:28:24):
It certainly could be.
Judge (06:28:24):
Dr. Kelly, may I ask that you wait for him to be done with his question?
Dr. Kelly (06:28:30):
Sorry. Thank you.
Speaker 14 (06:28:49):
And it's your opinion that the cord on the miniature vacuum cleaner is too large?
Dr. Kelly (06:28:58):
Again, I'd have to measure it, but it does have a pattern on it, which I do not see on her neck.
Speaker 14 (06:29:03):
And the charging cords, the black charging cords that you were presenting, you don't believe that any of them were the ligature?
Dr. Kelly (06:29:13):
Well, I said they could be consistent with it, but I don't see any element on it that could give us that horseshoe shape that we see on the left side.
Speaker 14 (06:29:20):
Now, when you first did this autopsy, did you notice that horseshoe shape?
Dr. Kelly (06:29:31):
I may have. I don't recall.
Speaker 14 (06:29:33):
Would you have noted that in your original autopsy report?
Dr. Kelly (06:29:41):
Most likely, yes.
Speaker 14 (06:29:45):
Would that have been in the section under injuries?
Dr. Kelly (06:29:48):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 14 (06:29:48):
Do you have a copy of your autopsy report?
Dr. Kelly (06:30:08):
I do.
Speaker 14 (06:30:09):
Will you look at page... I believe it's page three. Yes, page three of the 11, under the heading injuries. Traumatic head and neck injuries.
Dr. Kelly (06:30:26):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 14 (06:30:27):
Will you read that for the jury, please?
Dr. Kelly (06:30:30):
The whole thing?
Speaker 14 (06:30:31):
Yes, ma'am. Just that one paragraph. Well, paragraph Roman numeral one paragraph.
Dr. Kelly (06:30:38):
The two paragraphs?
Speaker 14 (06:30:39):
Yes.
Dr. Kelly (06:30:39):
Okay. Mark numbers of petechial hemorrhages, again, this is going to be in medical language, are diffusely present over the neck and face. The hemorrhages stop abruptly at a horizontal line along the anterior neck. Hemorrhages are seen over the right lower sclera. The conjunctiva of both eyes show scattered prominent petechial hemorrhages. Prominent numerous petechial hemorrhages are diffusely over the epithelial surfaces of both upper and lower gums.
(06:31:11)
A horizontal interrupted healing abrasion is over the anterior neck and extends over the thyroid cartilage. A one quarter inch interrupted healing abrasion is over the left neck extends posteriorly. Two parallel horizontal healing abrasions over the posterior left neck are separated by three-sixteenths of intact skin. Two diagonal parallel healing abrasions over the posterior right neck are separated by three-sixteenths inch.
(06:31:42)
Acute hemorrhages present in the left, right, and anterior neck muscles above the hyoid bone. After reflection of the scalp, massive numbers of prominent petechial hemorrhages are seen diffusely in the subgaleal tissues over all surfaces of the skull.
Speaker 14 (06:31:58):
You did not note in either of those paragraphs this horseshoe shaped?
Dr. Kelly (06:32:03):
I did not. That's correct.
Speaker 14 (06:32:06):
The anterior neck is the front part of the neck?
Dr. Kelly (06:32:09):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 14 (06:32:10):
Posterior is the back?
Dr. Kelly (06:32:11):
Yes.
Speaker 14 (06:32:13):
And in describing the posterior neck, you wrote, "Two parallel horizontal healing abrasions over the posterior left neck are separated by three-sixteenth inch of intact skin." When you use the word healing to describe abrasions, what do you mean by that?
Dr. Kelly (06:32:38):
Just that the body is beginning to heal them. She had survived for four days, and so that she was actually healing the injuries on her neck.
Speaker 14 (06:32:48):
And you also used that same terminology, healing abrasions, regarding two diagonal parallel healing abrasions over the posterior right neck were separated by three quarters of an inch?
Dr. Kelly (06:33:00):
Correct. Three-sixteenths.
Speaker 14 (06:33:01):
I'm sorry, three-sixteenths.
Dr. Kelly (06:33:02):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 14 (06:33:16):
Could either of those injuries that you described there have occurred prior to the early morning hours of November the 13th, 2017?
Dr. Kelly (06:33:31):
The abrasions?
Speaker 14 (06:33:32):
Yes.
Dr. Kelly (06:33:33):
No. In my opinion, no. They were all part of the same event.
Speaker 14 (06:33:39):
Can you explain? But you can't explain the break that you see-
Dr. Kelly (06:33:43):
That's correct.
Speaker 14 (06:33:44):
... in that posterior neck?
Dr. Kelly (06:33:45):
That's correct.
Speaker 14 (06:34:20):
And it's your opinion that the doctor or nurses in the hospital are in a better position to opine about any injuries to the anus than you are?
Dr. Kelly (06:34:38):
That's correct.
Speaker 14 (06:34:41):
And what puts them in a better position to make such opinion, if you cannot?
Dr. Kelly (06:34:51):
Well, first of all, they have... Well, she's still alive. There's still blood flowing into those tissues. They also have special stains that they use that can see a surface abrasion that I may not be able to see, because I don't have that same access to those stains. And because she's alive, it makes quite a bit of difference as far as the evaluation.
Speaker 14 (06:35:25):
But based upon your study of the later slides that were developed from the tissue of the vagina, you're satisfied that there was additional hemorrhage there?
Dr. Kelly (06:35:37):
That's correct.
Speaker 14 (06:35:37):
May I approach?
Judge (06:35:37):
You may.
Speaker 14 (06:36:48):
Okay. Dr. Kelly, I'm going to hold this up, but this is the red earbuds that were removed from the envelope marked as State's Exhibit 43. Do you notice that these are tangled or almost tied in a knot?
Dr. Kelly (06:37:36):
I see that, yes.
Speaker 14 (06:37:42):
And further down, they are again almost tied into a complete knot?
Dr. Kelly (06:37:48):
Correct.
Speaker 14 (06:37:53):
And same thing at this end?
Dr. Kelly (06:37:55):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 14 (06:37:59):
In between the two knots, there appears to be a rectangular shaped object?
Dr. Kelly (06:38:09):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 14 (06:38:12):
If this in fact had been the ligature, would any of these individual, the knots, this rectangular shape in the middle of the cord, would they have been seen or imprinted on Peyton's neck?
Dr. Kelly (06:38:33):
It would be my opinion that that rectangular part right there could certainly be where there was a lack of the presence of... Where that space was?
Speaker 14 (06:38:46):
The break [inaudible 06:38:46].
Dr. Kelly (06:38:46):
Yes, correct. If there were the knots, I believe we would see impressions of those.
Speaker 14 (06:38:54):
And if they were pulled tight, then this wouldn't necessarily be an open knot, would it?
Dr. Kelly (06:39:02):
No.
Speaker 14 (06:39:04):
And these earbuds, the portion that fits over the ear, they're just rubber?
Dr. Kelly (06:39:20):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 14 (06:39:21):
Fairly flexible?
Dr. Kelly (06:39:22):
Yes.
Speaker 14 (06:41:10):
Can you explain to the jury what the word hypoxic means?
Dr. Kelly (06:41:13):
Hypoxic?
Speaker 14 (06:41:13):
Yes.
Dr. Kelly (06:41:15):
Yes. Hypoxic is any time that an organ or tissue is not adequately oxygenated, so it doesn't get oxygen. So the tissue starts to collect all the products that toxic products and byproducts of breakdown in the cells is not exchanged with oxygenated blood, and so therefore the tissue starts to die. Hypoxia just means lack of oxygen.
Speaker 14 (06:41:45):
And what does ischemia mean?
Dr. Kelly (06:41:48):
Ischemia means death of the tissue, basically.
Speaker 14 (06:41:55):
So Peyton's death was the result of acute cerebral hypoxic ischemic injury due to strangulation?
Dr. Kelly (06:42:09):
Ligature strangulation, correct.
Speaker 14 (06:42:11):
And is that because the blood flow was cut off, or because there was no blood returning to her lungs to be oxygenated?
Dr. Kelly (06:42:21):
The blood was continuing to go to her brain, but that blood was then... The oxygen was taken out of the blood by the brain, but then typically what happens is the deoxygenated or the blood that no longer has oxygen escapes through the veins into the heart where it goes to the lungs to get re-oxygenated. So the blood that went up there, all the oxygen was extracted. But it couldn't then recirculate to get more oxygen because of the venous obstruction or the vein obstruction.
Speaker 14 (06:42:56):
Was that because of the blockage along the carotid arteries or blockage from the veins coming back or both?
Dr. Kelly (06:43:15):
It's due to the blockage of the veins.
Speaker 14 (06:43:17):
Of the vein?
Dr. Kelly (06:43:18):
Correct.
Speaker 14 (06:43:19):
So the blood that's returning to the heart and lungs was cut off?
Dr. Kelly (06:43:24):
Correct.
Speaker 14 (06:43:24):
May I have just a moment?
Judge (06:43:24):
You may.
Speaker 14 (06:43:24):
Dr. Kelly, have you ever heard the term Mongolian spot?
Dr. Kelly (06:43:24):
Yes, sir.
Speaker 14 (06:43:24):
Can you explain what that is?
Dr. Kelly (06:45:00):
Certainly. We no longer use that terminology because it's somewhat racist. It is actually a discoloration. It's like a mole on the back of dark skin people oftentimes. And it's just a pigmentation, a hyperpigmentation area, usually on the low back or the buttocks of darkly skinned people.
Speaker 14 (06:45:24):
What's the proper term now?
Dr. Kelly (06:45:25):
I'd have to look it up now. I don't recall. But we don't use that terminology anymore. I just call it a hyperpigmentation.
Speaker 14 (06:45:33):
Did you see any evidence of that hyperpigmentation on Peyton Fields?
Dr. Kelly (06:45:38):
I don't... Let me just look. I do not recall that I did. Usually I will put it on my diagram and I did not on this case.
Speaker 14 (06:45:52):
But if there was any such pigmentation, that would be the lower back, the buttocks and around could go as far as the vaginal area?
Dr. Kelly (06:46:04):
Not typically, no. Usually it's on the low back or the buttocks. And sometimes they're mistaken for bruises if people don't know what they're looking at.
Speaker 14 (06:46:15):
Okay. Thank you. I don't have any other questions.
Dr. Kelly (06:46:17):
Thank you.
Judge (06:46:17):
Redirect?
Speaker 13 (06:46:18):
Just quickly. Those injuries to Peyton's vagina, was that hyper... What did you call that? Hyper-
Dr. Kelly (06:46:26):
Pigmentation.
Speaker 13 (06:46:27):
Yeah. Is that hyperpigmentation?
Dr. Kelly (06:46:27):
No, that was blood. That was hemorrhage.
Speaker 13 (06:46:29):
Thank you. No further questions, Your Honor.
Judge (06:46:30):
Recross?
Speaker 14 (06:46:31):
No, sir.
Judge (06:46:32):
Is this witness subject to recall?
Speaker 13 (06:46:34):
No, Judge. I'd ask that she be released from her subpoena.
Judge (06:46:37):
On behalf of the defense?
Speaker 14 (06:46:39):
No, sir. [inaudible 06:46:40].
Judge (06:46:40):
All right, ma'am.
Dr. Kelly (06:46:41):
Thank you so much.
Judge (06:46:41):
You're released of your obligations in this subpoena. You can sit down.
Speaker 15 (06:46:43):
[inaudible 06:46:46].
Dr. Kelly (06:46:51):
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 15 (06:46:51):
[inaudible 06:47:03].
Judge (06:47:07):
State, you may call your next witness.
Speaker 13 (06:47:08):
State would call Julie Osier.
Judge (06:47:15):
All right, ma'am, if you can make your way around here to the witness stand please.
Julie Osier (06:47:24):
Yes.
Judge (06:47:24):
Please put your left hand on the Bible. Raise your right hand. The clerk will swear you in.
Court Clerk (06:47:27):
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give in court today will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Julie Osier (06:47:32):
I do.
Court Clerk (06:47:32):
Thank you.
Judge (06:47:40):
Ma'am, as you testify here today, please make sure to speak loudly and clearly into the microphone so everybody here can hear you. Please make sure all of your answers are out loud. No head shakes or nods or mm-hmms. Everything has to be a yes or a no. Please wait for the attorneys to be done asking their question before you give a response. Can you do that?
Julie Osier (06:47:56):
Yes, sir.
Judge (06:47:58):
All right. Thank you. State, you may proceed.
Speaker 13 (06:47:59):
Ms. Osier, can you state your name and occupation for the jury please?
Dr. Kelly (06:48:02):
Julie Osier.
Speaker 16 (06:48:00):
... Ozier, can you state your name and occupation for the jury please?
Julie Ozier (06:48:02):
Julie Ozier. I'm a licensed clinical social worker.
Speaker 16 (06:48:05):
Can you spell your name for the court reporter please?
Julie Ozier (06:48:07):
It's Julie, J-U-L-I-E, Ozier, O-Z-I-E-R.
Speaker 16 (06:48:12):
And your current occupation is what?
Julie Ozier (06:48:14):
I have a private practice providing therapy to individuals and I also do consultation training and training in RADAR and clinical supervision for licensees.
Speaker 16 (06:48:29):
And what has been... Well, let me ask you this. What do you train? You said you provide therapy or counseling. In what areas? What is your background?
Julie Ozier (06:48:42):
My specialties have been child abuse, childhood trauma, sexual assault. I also sometimes see adults too that have experienced trauma.
Speaker 16 (06:48:51):
And walk the jury through sort of your educational training to be able to do this professionally.
Julie Ozier (06:48:58):
I obtained a bachelor's degree. I graduated from Greensboro College in 1994. I obtained a master's degree in social work in 2002 from Virginia Commonwealth University. In order to do this kind of work, you have to be licensed. And so after you obtain your master's degree, you have to practice clinical work for at least 3,000 hours under the supervision of a more experienced clinician for a period of... It takes about two to three years. You have to sit for an exam and then you have to maintain continuing education requirements and to be licensed in the state that you work. So I'm licensed by the state of North Carolina.
Speaker 16 (06:49:41):
So you have a master's in social work?
Julie Ozier (06:49:43):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:49:44):
Are you a licensed clinical social worker?
Julie Ozier (06:49:46):
Correct.
Speaker 16 (06:49:47):
And then do you have another initial behind your name, VSP?
Julie Ozier (06:49:52):
I'm also a victim services practitioner. And I've done a lot of work over the years in victim advocacy and so that denotes experience in providing advocacy for victims.
Speaker 16 (06:50:09):
So what does a licensed clinical social worker do?
Julie Ozier (06:50:12):
A licensed clinical social worker treats mental health concerns in children and adults. They can diagnose mental health conditions, provide interventions to individuals related to their mental health. Clinical social workers work in a lot of settings though, not always just one-on-one individual therapy.
Speaker 16 (06:50:32):
And how long have you been a licensed clinical social worker?
Julie Ozier (06:50:34):
I've been a licensed clinical social worker since I obtained my associate license in 2007 and my full license in 2009.
Speaker 16 (06:50:46):
Right now, you're in private practice, have you worked in other places?
Julie Ozier (06:50:50):
Yes. So right now, I'm in private practice. I also teach at the University of North Carolina in Wilmington and do consultation. Previous to that, my private practice, I worked for 10 years at the Carousel Center. Prior to that, I was a clinical director at a day treatment program for children. Prior to that, I worked at Rape Crisis, and prior to that, about 10 years doing Child Protective Services investigations and child welfare work.
Speaker 16 (06:51:17):
So you worked for DSS?
Julie Ozier (06:51:18):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:51:19):
And do you train people now?
Julie Ozier (06:51:23):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:51:23):
In what way?
Julie Ozier (06:51:26):
I teach RADAR child forensic interviewing to professionals across North Carolina and the country. I speak at conferences and provide training to professionals around topics such as child sexual abuse, trauma, treating trauma, the ethics of trauma treatment. I train on sexual behaviors in children. I train on... I think that was it.
Speaker 16 (06:51:52):
And in the course of being a licensed clinical social worker, both at the Carousel Center, maybe CPS, but in private practice, do you come in contact with... Let's really focus it to kids. Do you come into contact with kids who have been sexually abused?
Julie Ozier (06:52:15):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:52:17):
Physically abused?
Julie Ozier (06:52:18):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:52:20):
Witnessed abuse?
Julie Ozier (06:52:22):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:52:23):
Kids that have experienced traumatic events?
Julie Ozier (06:52:26):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:52:26):
And it may not be sexual in nature. It may not be physical in nature, but tragic and traumatic events.
Julie Ozier (06:52:32):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 16 (06:52:33):
And do you provide therapy to those individuals?
Julie Ozier (06:52:37):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:52:38):
Approximately how many kids have you worked with when you're talking about therapy and trauma?
Julie Ozier (06:52:46):
Hundreds.
Speaker 16 (06:52:49):
And I'm going to take you back to 2017.
Julie Ozier (06:52:54):
Okay.
Speaker 16 (06:52:56):
Where were you working?
Julie Ozier (06:52:57):
I was working at the Carousel Center Child Advocacy Center.
Speaker 16 (06:52:59):
And what is the Carousel Center?
Julie Ozier (06:53:02):
The Carousel Center is the nationally-accredited child advocacy center serving Pender, New Hanover, and Brunswick Counties.
Speaker 16 (06:53:12):
And what does the Child Advocacy Center do?
Julie Ozier (06:53:12):
The Child Advocacy Center is kind of a multidisciplinary one hub place to respond to children when there are concerns for abuse or maltreatment. And the purpose is to provide exams, evaluations of those children, and then also provide trauma therapy or make recommendations for services.
Speaker 16 (06:53:34):
So what were your duties and responsibilities at the Carousel Center?
Julie Ozier (06:53:37):
I was a forensic interviewer and trauma therapist and also a supervisor of those programs.
Speaker 16 (06:53:44):
And when you say trauma therapist, did you again treat children who had experienced sexual trauma?
Julie Ozier (06:53:52):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:53:52):
Physical trauma?
Julie Ozier (06:53:53):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:53:54):
Witnessed any traumatic event that caused them trauma?
Julie Ozier (06:53:58):
Yes. Traumatic grief.
Speaker 16 (06:54:00):
Say that again?
Julie Ozier (06:54:01):
Traumatic grief.
Speaker 16 (06:54:06):
Okay. And I guess what does a therapist do when working with a kid for therapeutic purposes that have experienced trauma?
Julie Ozier (06:54:15):
So after a clinical assessment, getting information about their history, their symptoms, things that have happened to them. Most of the work that I've done in treating childhood trauma is called trauma-focused cognitive behavioral therapy. It's one of the gold-standard treatment methods for children that have experienced trauma, and that process involves teaching them skills to regulate emotions, express their feelings. It teaches them... It involves gradual exposure. Children that have experienced trauma and adults have experienced trauma often avoid thinking about it or talking about it or remembering it. And so through a kind of gradual exposure process, encouraging them to talk about it bit by bit, you reprocess cognitive distortions related to that. And then we talk about future safety and future healthy development.
Speaker 16 (06:55:10):
Thank you. May I approach the witness, Judge?
Julie Ozier (06:55:12):
You may.
Speaker 16 (06:55:17):
I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 82 for identification purposes. Do you recognize State's Exhibit 82?
Julie Ozier (06:55:23):
Yes, I do.
Speaker 16 (06:55:24):
And what is 82?
Julie Ozier (06:55:26):
It's my CV, which is like a resume, curriculum vitae.
Speaker 16 (06:55:29):
And does it describe your education?
Julie Ozier (06:55:33):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:55:33):
Does it describe the trainings that you've attended?
Julie Ozier (06:55:36):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:55:36):
Does it describe the different work experiences you had?
Julie Ozier (06:55:43):
It does.
Speaker 16 (06:55:43):
And does it also discuss maybe some of the trainings that you've performed?
Julie Ozier (06:55:46):
Yes. It also includes my licenses and certifications and then also trainings I've provided.
Speaker 16 (06:55:51):
All right. Move to introduce State's Exhibit 82, Judge.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:55:54):
Any objection?
Luther Britt III (06:55:54):
No objection.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:55:55):
State's Exhibit 82 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 16 (06:55:56):
Ms. Ozier, when it comes to physical abuse or child physical abuse, child sexual abuse, and child traumatic or child trauma, what kind of specific training have you had for those areas?
Julie Ozier (06:56:20):
So we've been talking some about the therapy side, the trauma-focused cognitive behavioral therapy. So I am trained in that model. I'm also nationally certified in that model and state rostered in North Carolina. I'm also a consultant and train other clinicians in that treatment model. I also do conduct child forensic interviews, and so I've had extensive training in child forensic interviewing. I've attended numerous conferences around topics of child abuse, child maltreatment, just childhood trauma.
Speaker 16 (06:56:55):
Have you ever been recognized as an expert in child sexual abuse, child maltreatment, child physical abuse, forensic interviewing, or trauma?
Julie Ozier (06:57:06):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:57:07):
Have you ever testified in court before?
Julie Ozier (06:57:09):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:57:09):
Approximately how many times?
Julie Ozier (06:57:11):
At least a dozen.
Speaker 16 (06:57:12):
Here in North Carolina?
Julie Ozier (06:57:14):
Yes, North Carolina.
Speaker 16 (06:57:15):
How about outside of North Carolina?
Julie Ozier (06:57:16):
I have not testified outside of... Well, I have testified in Virginia. I don't remember if I was an expert, but yes, I've testified in multiple jurisdictions in the state of North Carolina.
Speaker 16 (06:57:25):
Judge, at this time, I would tender Ms. Ozier as an expert in child sexual abuse, child physical abuse, and child trauma.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:57:46):
Any objection?
Luther Britt III (06:57:49):
Could you run down the list again?
Speaker 16 (06:57:51):
Child sexual abuse, child physical abuse, child trauma.
Luther Britt III (06:57:56):
No, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (06:57:58):
Witness will be qualified as an expert in the field of child sexual abuse, child physical abuse, and child trauma. Thank you.
Speaker 16 (06:58:06):
All right. Ms. Ozier, in 2017, you worked at the Carousel Center?
Julie Ozier (06:58:12):
Correct.
Speaker 16 (06:58:16):
And you provided therapeutic services to children there?
Julie Ozier (06:58:18):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (06:58:19):
You also alluded to the fact that you performed forensic interviews.
Julie Ozier (06:58:24):
Correct.
Speaker 16 (06:58:24):
What is a forensic interview?
Julie Ozier (06:58:26):
A forensic interview is a conversation by a specially trained neutral professional with a child related to concerns of child maltreatment. It's designed to elicit the most accurate information possible from a child about their experiences.
Speaker 16 (06:58:46):
How do you conduct a forensic interview?
Julie Ozier (06:58:46):
The model that I use is called RADAR, and that process involves an engagement rapport phase, so getting to know the child, learning about their speech and language, just kind of getting to know them, letting them get to know me. Then we go into an orientation phase where we instruct the child about rules for the interviews, such as not guessing if they don't know the answer, telling me if they don't understand the question, correcting the interviewer if the interviewer makes a mistake, and then also asking them to promise to tell only true things. After the orientation phase, there's also a narrative practice where we have the child tell us about a neutral event or teach us about something, and then we go into the topic of concern or screening and then eliciting accounts, so gathering more information about whatever they report and that closure section.
Speaker 16 (06:59:44):
Is this RADAR method generally accepted in the field of forensic interviewing?
Julie Ozier (06:59:49):
Yes. It's used across the country and it's recognized by the National Children's Alliance, which accredits child advocacy centers around the country, and it's based on the National Institute for Child Health and Development model.
Speaker 16 (07:00:04):
Do you perform forensic interviews with children who are victims of crime?
Julie Ozier (07:00:10):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (07:00:10):
Or victims of abuse? Excuse me.
Julie Ozier (07:00:12):
Yes. When there are concerns that they have been a victim of abuse, that they may have experienced maltreatment, serious maltreatment, that they may have been a victim of a crime or that they may have witnessed something.
Speaker 16 (07:00:24):
And I was going to go down with you. There's also forensic interviews for... Are there forensic interviews conducted for children who experience traumatic events?
Julie Ozier (07:00:34):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (07:00:35):
Maybe not the victim of a traumatic event, but experienced?
Julie Ozier (07:00:39):
Yes. So witnesses or in the same household as another child who may have experienced something traumatic.
Speaker 16 (07:00:48):
Now, there was a time before child advocacy centers where law enforcement would interview children, is that correct?
Julie Ozier (07:00:57):
Correct.
Speaker 16 (07:00:58):
And has that practice continued or is it generally accepted where law enforcement conducts interviews of children?
Julie Ozier (07:01:11):
Most communities have access to a child advocacy center and the best practices model is to have a trained child forensic interviewer conduct that interview at the child advocacy center. Sometimes law enforcement interviews a first responder to get a basic facts, and in some jurisdictions, they actually have law enforcements that are forensic interviewers, but in our community, it's trained forensic interviewers that are clinical social workers.
Speaker 16 (07:01:41):
In our community, when you say our community, Brunswick, Pender, New Hanover, and the surrounding southeastern counties-
Julie Ozier (07:01:47):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (07:01:48):
... it's generally, the general practice is law enforcement do not interview or conduct forensic interviews of children. They are sent to Child Advocacy?
Julie Ozier (07:01:57):
Correct. Correct.
Speaker 16 (07:01:58):
And in November of 2017 and beyond, you said that you were conducting forensic interviews, correct?
Julie Ozier (07:02:07):
Correct. My entire tenure at Carousel Center, I conducted child forensic interviews.
Speaker 16 (07:02:11):
And are these interviews recorded or videotaped?
Julie Ozier (07:02:16):
They are audio video recorded.
Speaker 16 (07:02:18):
Is that normal practice?
Julie Ozier (07:02:20):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (07:02:21):
Can you explain when a child comes into the Carousel Center, how does one then... How are they interviewed? Type of room? How is the camera system set up?
Julie Ozier (07:02:34):
Yeah, yeah. So when a child is referred to the Carousel Center for a child medical exam, that also includes the forensic interview. The child and their, a non-offending caregiver, so an adult caregiver is with them, but it's not someone that there are concerns about. They come to the center, they're greeted by our family advocate. The interviewer and the team, the medical provider and the assigned investigators will meet briefly with the caregiver. I'm sorry. We will meet briefly first to just get a basic history. Then the forensic interviewer gives the child a tour of the facility. So we just show them around, let them know what's there, what to expect, and then we'll talk briefly with the caregiver that brought them if they have any questions.
(07:03:22)
And then the forensic interviewer takes the child into the forensic interview room. And at Carousel Center in our New Hanover office, which is where typically Pender residents come, we have two child forensic interview rooms. One of them is for younger children with smaller furniture and the other one is for older children with bigger furniture. They both are equipped with audio video, so there's a camera and a microphone and a live feed into an observation room, and then they are recorded.
Speaker 16 (07:03:56):
What is a child medical examination? Or evaluate, I'm sorry. Child medical evaluation.
Julie Ozier (07:04:02):
Yeah. So the child medical evaluation is kind of the name of the form, the process that is conducted across the state when there are concerns for child maltreatment. The child medical evaluation includes a child forensic interview and a child medical exam, both conducted by specially-trained providers.
Speaker 16 (07:04:23):
Do you provide the child medical examination?
Julie Ozier (07:04:23):
I do not. So we have medical providers at the Carousel Center that are specially trained that provide the medical piece, and that happens immediately after the forensic interview as part of that kind of overall process.
Speaker 16 (07:04:36):
I'm going to take you to November 15th of 2017, then January of '18, and then finally to February of 2022. Did you have... Well, did you conduct a forensic interview of Savannah Fields?
Julie Ozier (07:04:51):
I did.
Speaker 16 (07:04:53):
What days did you conduct those forensic interviews?
Julie Ozier (07:04:58):
I think it's November 15th of 2017. There was another one in January of 2018, I think the 22nd or 24th. I'd have to see my paperwork. And then a third interview was conducted in 2022.
Speaker 16 (07:05:14):
All right.
Julie Ozier (07:05:15):
February.
Speaker 16 (07:05:16):
November 15th, 2017?
Julie Ozier (07:05:18):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (07:05:19):
January 24th of 2018 sound right?
Julie Ozier (07:05:21):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (07:05:22):
February 18th of 2022?
Julie Ozier (07:05:22):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (07:05:26):
And were all three of these forensic interviews audio and video recording?
Julie Ozier (07:05:31):
They were.
Speaker 16 (07:05:31):
May I approach the witness, Judge?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:05:31):
You may.
Luther Britt III (07:05:31):
This is the 2nd of January.
Speaker 16 (07:07:18):
I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 83, 84, and 85. And excuse me, ask you to look at 83. And what does 83 appear to be?
Julie Ozier (07:07:31):
83 is the child evaluation summary and the child medical evaluation report that was conducted with Savannah Fields on November 15th, 2017.
Speaker 16 (07:07:44):
And as to the child evaluation summary, is that an accurate depiction of the summary?
Julie Ozier (07:07:51):
Yes.
Speaker 16 (07:07:51):
And move to introduce State's Exhibit 83, Judge.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:07:54):
Any objection?
Luther Britt III (07:07:55):
No, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:07:55):
State's Exhibit 83 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 16 (07:07:58):
As to State's Exhibit 84, what is 84?
Julie Ozier (07:08:03):
84 is the child evaluation summary for Savannah Fields for January 24th, 2018, and also attached to it is the 2017 summary.
Speaker 16 (07:08:22):
And that is the summary for this second interview, is that correct?
Julie Ozier (07:08:25):
Yes, correct.
Speaker 16 (07:08:26):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 84.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:08:28):
Any objection?
Luther Britt III (07:08:28):
No, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:08:29):
State's Exhibit 84 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 16 (07:08:31):
And then State's Exhibit 85?
Julie Ozier (07:08:35):
State's Exhibit 85 is the child evaluation summary and photos that were introduced and used in the interviews on February 18th, 2022.
Speaker 16 (07:08:49):
All right. And on the child evaluation summary there, it's typed in February of 2021, is that correct?
Julie Ozier (07:08:59):
That's correct.
Speaker 16 (07:09:00):
But that's an error?
Julie Ozier (07:09:02):
That is an error. Yeah. They put stickers on there and the admin that made the stickers put the wrong date, but I see my signature date as 2/18/22.
Speaker 16 (07:09:13):
So the third interview was on February 18th of 2022?
Julie Ozier (07:09:14):
Correct.
Speaker 16 (07:09:15):
All right. Move to introduce State's Exhibit 85.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:09:23):
Any objection?
Luther Britt III (07:09:24):
No, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:09:24):
State's Exhibit 85 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 16 (07:09:27):
I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 86. Do you recognize State's Exhibit 86?
Julie Ozier (07:10:05):
I do.
Speaker 16 (07:10:06):
And what is 86?
Julie Ozier (07:10:07):
It is a copy of the forensic interviews I conducted with Savannah Fields at the Carousel Center on November 15th, 2017, January 24th of 2018, and February 18th of 2022.
Speaker 16 (07:10:21):
And have you watched these interviews?
Julie Ozier (07:10:24):
I have.
Speaker 16 (07:10:25):
And do they contain the full interviews of Savannah Fields on those three separate occasions?
Julie Ozier (07:10:31):
They do.
Speaker 16 (07:10:31):
And have they been edited in any way?
Julie Ozier (07:10:34):
No, they have not.
Speaker 16 (07:10:34):
Move to introduce State's Exhibit 86, Judge.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:10:37):
Any objection?
Luther Britt III (07:10:37):
No, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:10:38):
State's Exhibit 86 will be admitted into evidence.
Speaker 16 (07:10:41):
Judge, I think at this time, I don't believe that we have enough time today to play the videos. I'm going to ask that we recess for the night and then we can pick up in the morning with this.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:10:50):
All right. As far as your direct examination, the next step that you wish to take would be playing those [inaudible 07:10:55]?
Speaker 16 (07:10:55):
Yes. Yes, sir.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:10:57):
All right, members of the jury, we're going to go ahead and break for the day. Go ahead and close up your notebooks. Take off your red badges and clip them to your notebooks. As you go home, remember, do not have any conversations with anyone within this jury about this case. Do not discuss this case with any friends, family members, or coworkers. Do not conduct any independent investigation or inquiry. If by chance you happen to have to drive by any of the locations that are mentioned, you may drive by, but you're not allowed to stop and conduct any independent investigation. You're not allowed any contact with any of the parties, attorneys, or witnesses, and you are not allowed to post online on any social media sites regarding your experience as a juror or regarding any of the evidence that you've seen or heard. We will go ahead and reconvene tomorrow morning at 9:30. You're excused.
Bailiff (07:11:52):
Thank you, Your Honor. Make sure your red juror badges are in your clothes and notebooks, those in your chairs. When ready, front row, then back this way. The jury has left the courtroom.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:12:35):
Thank you, sir. Let the record reflect that the jury has exited the courtroom. Ma'am, at this time, you may step down.
Julie Ozier (07:12:47):
Thank you, Your Honor.
Speaker 17 (07:12:47):
Judge, may I return exhibits?
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:12:55):
You may. Is there anything that we need to discuss on behalf of the defense?
Luther Britt III (07:12:59):
No, sir. I got a question I want to ask the State [inaudible 07:13:03] on the record.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:13:03):
All right. Anything on behalf of the State?
Speaker 17 (07:13:05):
No, Judge.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:13:06):
We will be in recess until tomorrow morning at 9:30.
Bailiff (07:13:09):
Court will be in recess till tomorrow morning at 9:30. 9:30.
Judge Ricardo Jensen (07:13:14):
Mr. Bailiff?
