FBI Oversight Hearing

Chuck Grassley (03:18):

… 13. Well, it's well-understood that your predecessor left you an FBI infected with politics. I'm going to provide examples of that today, including making public new whistleblower records. At your nomination hearing, I made public records that whistleblowers provide me about Arctic Frost. Arctic Frost was the FBI case opened and approved by anti-Trump FBI Agent Thibault. Arctic Frost then became Jack Smith's elector case against then-citizen Trump and now President Trump. These new records show that Arctic Frost was much broader than just a little electoral matter. The case was expanded to Republican organizations.

(04:43)
Some examples of the group that Wray FBI sought to place under political investigation included the Republican National Committee, Republican Attorney General's Association, and various Trump political groups. In total, 92 Republican targets, including Republican groups and Republican-linked individuals were placed under investigative scope of Arctic Frost. On that political list was one of Charlie Kirk's group's, Turning Point USA. In other words, Arctic Frost wasn't just a case to politically investigate Trump. It was the vehicle by which partisan FBI agents and Department of Justice prosecutors could achieve their partisan ends and improperly investigate the entire Republican political apparatus. So, today, Senator Johnson and I are making these records public for the entire country to see, and I hope a lot of people are interested in seeing what government can do when various agencies have a political agenda.

(06:14)
My investigative work has also exposed the political way in which Peter Navarro was investigated and prosecuted. When FBI Agent Thibault found out that Biden's DOJ would prosecute Navarro, he said, "Wow, great." That's a quote-unquote. Through whistleblowers, I've obtained a audio recording of Special Agent Gia Gardena and Special Agent Sebastian Gardner's delivery of a subpoena to Navarro. I'm making that audio public today. In a court document filed by the Department of Justice, Navarro's interaction with the FBI was unfairly described as, quote, unquote, the word combative. That intervention with Navarro was a justification to later aggressively arrest him.

(07:25)
Then, we get to the Clinton annex and the Durham annex. The Clinton annex showed that the Comey FBI had evidence necessary to complete the Clinton investigation, the one about her mishandling of emails and classified information, but the FBI never did its job because it never reviewed the evidence at that time. The Durham annex showed that the Clinton campaign had a plan to falsely tie Trump to Russia. Yet, the Comey FBI failed to investigate that information. Instead, the Comey FBI used the discredited Clinton campaign-funded Steele dossier to advance Crossfire Hurricane against Trump.

(08:21)
Director Patel, thanks in a large part to you, both annexes were finally declassified. That may be history, but it's history to make sure we don't repeat the history of the past. And the people ought to be concerned when the weaponization of government is used in this way, whether it's done by Republicans or Democrats.

(08:47)
Last Congress, I made public an FBI document called 1023 Form that alleged a bribery scheme with the Biden family. To date, the FBI has never answered Congress whether they investigated the text messages, the audio files, and the financial records referenced in that 1023. Whistleblowers have provided my office with two additional FBI 1023 documents. These documents memorialize statements from FBI sources. These two new 1023 documents are from separate FBI confidential human sources during different years. So, in total, we now have three different FBI confidential human sources providing information about the Biden family and potential criminal conduct. Today, Senator Johnson and I are releasing these records. Let me say this, for the partisan media, the people that are supposed to be policemen of our Republican form of government, we aren't saying the allegations are true. We want to know what the FBI did to fully investigate their veracity, or lack thereof, and what they concluded. Let's put this matter to rest one way or the other. Starting with my chairmanship, I've given one example after another of disgraceful partisan weaponization by federal law enforcement. Since the Trump administration took power, many FBI agents have been removed. The removal included agents and prosecutors who became partisan weapons that lost their way, and I've made records public to prove it, and many of my whistleblowers were aggressively retaliated against by some FBI agents who were subsequently fired. One FBI whistleblower publicly said of these terminations, "Ensuring that they no longer work at the FBI isn't retribution, it's responsible leadership." Which brings me to my final and favorite topic, whistleblowers. In August 10 of my FBI, whistleblowers secured compensation agreement because of your leadership, Director Patel. It included a mix of reinstatement to the FBI, reinstatement of security clearances and monetary compensation. At the beginning of this month, another of my FBI whistleblowers got their job back. All told across government agencies, almost 20 whistleblowers have received fixes to their retaliation.

(12:23)
Today, you'll get a lot of grief from some members of this committee, but in the short amount of time you've been director, you've corrected whistleblower retaliation, increased transparency more than any other FBI director I've seen, whether that FBI director was appointed by Republicans or Democrats. And I've been around here more than anybody else on this committee.

(12:52)
I yield to Senator Durbin.

Dick Durbin (12:56):

Thanks, Chairman Grassley, for holding this oversight hearing during a critical period in the history of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. During my four years as chair, I held four hearings within FBI Director Wray. As a reminder to Republicans who claim the Biden administration weaponized the FBI, President Biden retained Director Wray, a lifelong Republican, who was President Trump's nominee for the office. After his second election in an unprecedented move, President Trump forced out Director Wray and nominated Kash Patel, arguably the most partisan FBI director ever.

(13:39)
Director Patel came to the FBI with a political mission and he spelled it out in writing in detail. He wrote in Government Gangsters, "The rot at the core of the FBI is not just scandalous, it's an existential threat to our Republican form of government." And with the power of his office and the blessings of the president, he attacked the FBI with a vengeance. Mr. Patel had falsely claimed the FBI, "was planning January 6th for a year." He even went so far as to produce a song by the January 6th rioters who violently assaulted police officers in the Capitol. He compiled an enemies list of public servants he called government gangsters, like Former FBI Director Mueller, who Patel called "an utter swamp creature."

(14:39)
Former Trump officials who served with Mr. Patel warned us he would weaponize the FBI to protect the president's allies and target his critics. And indeed, Director Patel has already inflicted untold damage on the FBI, putting our national security and public safety at risk. Since January 20th, the Trump administration has engaged in an unprecedented purge of FBI officials. As we heard from highly-credible whistleblowers, Mr. Patel was involved in directing this purge even before he was confirmed, despite his sworn testimony to this committee.

(15:18)
It began with terminations and forced retirements of all six nonpartisan career officials who run all six branches of the FBI, the executive assistant directors. Since then, at least 18 of the 53 special agents in charge of FBI field offices have been removed, along with many other senior officials. Individual agents have been targeted for termination simply due to the work that they were assigned, such as January 6th investigation. In fact, according to Former Acting FBI Director Brian Driscoll in a lawsuit filed last week, Director Patel made this very plain, telling Driscoll personally, " That his own job depended on the removal of agents who worked on the cases against the president." And even though he knew, "The nature of summary findings were likely illegal."

(16:14)
At the same time Director Patel has installed MAGA-loyalists as political appointees in key career positions, including conspiracy theorist Dan Bongino as FBI deputy director. The first time in the history of the FBI, that this position has not been held by a career FBI agent. Director Patel has also reportedly initiated loyalty tests, loyalty tests, requiring dozens of officials to sit for polygraph exams and answer inappropriate questions about whether they've made negative comments about him personally. Of course, this is often the case in the Trump administration, the rules apply to thee, but not to me.

(16:57)
As we understand it from highly credible sources, key members of Director Patel's senior executive team and others on the seventh floor had disqualifying alerts on their initial polygraph exams. Well, how did they survive? They survived because of a personal waiver by either the director or the attorney general to remain employed by the bureau. Understand the context here. Political operatives in key positions, given the routine FBI polygram exam failed and had to receive waivers to continue their positions. They were lucky to keep their political appointments. They were, but the 5,000 career civil servants, the director has so far forced out of the bureau's ranks were not offered that same courtesy, 5,000. This mass exodus has created a disastrous brain drain, particularly in the fields of cybersecurity, counterterrorism and counterintelligence.

(17:54)
For example, my office has received information indicating that cuts to the bureau's cyber division will cut personnel by half, despite the ever-increasing threats posed by adverse foreign actors. The brain drain is exacerbated by Director Patel's misuse of remaining FBI personnel resources to focus on other priorities of this administration. According to reports, the 25 largest FBI field offices have been ordered to divert 45% of their agents from their primary missions to work on the mass deportation of immigrants.

(18:32)
Just as concerning as Director Patel's plan to hire fewer qualified agents by removing the college degree requirement and reducing new agent training at Quantico from 18 weeks to just 8. So, we have a brain drain and a significant watering down of training. Quite a record, Mr. Patel. As recently-fired special agents and others have warned, fast-tracking, inexperienced and improperly trained people into critical national security jeopardizes the bureau's ability to effectively protect America.

(19:08)
Director Patel himself had no training or life experience for this position, the result of that incompetence is staggering. For example, after Attorney General Bondi publicly stated in February that the Epstein client list was, "sitting on my desk right now to review," that's what she said on Fox, Director Patel diverted more than 1,000 FBI personnel from their critical missions to work on 24-hour shifts reviewing over 100,000 pages of Epstein-related records. These personnel were instructed to flag any records in which President Trump was named, but that review ended in an unsigned memorandum from DOJ and FBI stating simply, "There is no incriminating client list." Director Patel still has not responded to my letter from two months ago asking about his role in this cover up.

(20:06)
On the day of the horrific shooting of Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University, Director Patel again sparked mass confusion by incorrectly claiming on social media that the shooter was in custody, which he then had to walk back with another social media post. Mr. Patel was so anxious to take credit for finding Mr. Kirk's assassin that he violated one of the basics of effective law enforcement. At critical stages of an investigation, shut up and let the professionals do their job. Notably, Director Patel recently forced out special agent in charge of Salt Lake City, Mayam Saeed, a counter-terrorism expert with 20 years experience who would've led this high-profile investigation. The men and women who serve at the FBI and the American people deserve a director who has the ability and the character to restore the Bureau to its place as the preeminent law enforcement agency.

(21:03)
I want to close on a personal note. I came of age in the 1960s. We experienced a number of horrific assassinations, including President John Kennedy, Senator Robert Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King. We are going through a similar period of division and political violence. All of us in public life on both sides of the aisle have a responsibility to bring down the temperature and to work to unite the American people. Let's be clear, Republicans are not Nazis and Democrats are not evil, as Mr. Patel has claimed. Democrats are not responsible for the murder of Charlie Kirk and Republicans were not responsible for the murder of Melissa Hortman. Our political opponents are not our enemies. We are all Americans and we should be working together to keep the American people safe and protect their constitutional rights.

(21:56)
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chuck Grassley (21:58):

Would you please stand so I could swear you in? Do you affirm that the testimony you're about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you guide?

Kash Patel (22:12):

I do, sir.

Chuck Grassley (22:13):

Please be seated and you can give your statement now.

Kash Patel (22:19):

Thank you. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Durbin and members of the committee. It's an honor to be here with you today as the ninth director of the FBI. I want to provide by providing a briefing into the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk. It's important that this FBI is transparent as possible without jeopardizing investigations.

(22:39)
Charlie Kirk was shot at 12:23 PM on September 10th. I think this timeline is critically important. Less than a day later, the FBI at my direction released the first set of images of the suspect that we captured based on our analysis on the ground. Later that evening, while conducting extensive interviews and cell phone analysis and also flying out evidence response teams and hostage rescue teams and evidence tacticians, who were collecting evidence in live time and flying them back to Washington DC in our laboratories for immediate analysis, we were able to extract video from the campus feed. And at my direction at 8:00 PM, in partnership and promise to working with the public to bring this fugitive to justice, we released a newly never-before-seen video of the suspect. We also released new enhanced photos of the suspect.

(23:33)
A few hours later, that suspect was in custody, pursuant to the interrogation of the suspect's own father who stated, "When I saw that video that you released, I recognized it was my son and I confronted him and he was handed over to law enforcement authorities." That is the FBI working with the public, as I promised, being transparent and provided critical information along the way in the manhunt for the suspect and suspects involved in Charlie's assassination. We received over 11,000 tips in the first 24 hours alone. We received 16,000 submissions to our digital media enterprise and tip lines. That is a large number of material to go through.

(24:14)
I want to thank President Trump and the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, for their unwavering support and commitment resources to this and all investigations. I also want to specially thank our colleagues in Utah, the Governor's Office, DPS and the sheriffs out there. State and local law enforcement partnership has been a cornerstone since I took over at the FBI, and it was no different here. And our teams in Salt Lake City, our SACs out there across the country, our lab technicians in Quantico who raced to complete the evidence analysis, so the public could have the answers they need. These people worked through the night without sleep for days on end. They're to be commended, they're not to be attacked. And many, many, many more people I don't have time to thank here today.

(24:54)
But I do want to thank the American people especially. The mission of the FBI is for them and with them and by and through them, and it's that mission and that ethos that I brought to this investigation and so many others, and that's why that suspect is in custody. We cannot do our job without the American public and credible reporting in the media, and that's why Tyler Robinson is in custody today, about to face charges.

(25:18)
The last time I appeared before this committee was in January for my confirmation hearing. I told you then that if I were confirmed, I would provide and do everything I can to provide a safe and secure America. I promised to provide the courageous men and women of the FBI the tools and resources they need to crush violent crime and defend the homeland. I pledged myself to commit to full transparency, oversight and accountability, so we could restore the public's trust in the FBI and that's exactly what I've done.

(25:44)
Under this administration, the FBI has arrested more than 23,000 violent criminals. That's more than twice for the same time period from last year alone. 23,000, more than twice from the same time period last year. We've taken over 6,000 illegal firearms off the streets, that number is an exponential increase. We've identified and located more than 4,700 child victims. More than 4,700 child victims have been found by this FBI. That is a 35% increase from the same time period last year. 1,500 child predators have been arrested, that's a 5% increase from the same time last year. 300 human traffickers have been arrested. That's a 10% increase from the same time last year. Over 350 members of Tren de Aragua, a foreign terrorist organization, have been arrested and we have 42 ongoing cases, that is a 250% increase from the same time last year.

(26:45)
Those are just some of the things the FBI is doing differently and better because we are leading the mission to crush violent crime and defend the homeland. We have also arrested, captured four top-10 fugitives from the FBI's top 10 most wanted list. To put that in perspective, that's the same amount I've captured in seven months than my predecessor did during the entirety of the Biden administration. Those are real results and the credit is to the men and women at the FBI.

(27:15)
We've been able to achieve these results because the FBI recognizes violent crimes doesn't just happen in Washington DC. That's why one of my first decisions as a director was to get the people, the bureau's professional staff out to the field, and we've done that with great speed. And every single one of your districts and states has received a plus up of FBI personnel agents and special operators to the tune of almost 1,000. We did that because crime had unexpectedly and unacceptably exploded across the country. In fact, one of the stats that the American people should thank the FBI the most for is we are on track to have the lowest murder rate in modern American history, the lowest murder rate by double-digit percentages.

(28:04)
A major factor in the drop of this violent crime is the FBI's flagship Operation Summer Heat. We use this initiative at the direction of the president and the attorney general surging resources to our major and mid-major cities across America conducting intelligence-based operations to target the worst of the worst, to target the gangs, to target the transnational organizations, to target the TCOs and to target the drug trafficking cartels, and we have taken them out city by city. There's a lot of work left to be done, but we're off to a great start. Just ask the citizens of Seattle, Miami, Memphis, Charlotte, Chicago, and so many more places. Specifically in New Orleans and Nashville alone, there has been an increase in the number of violent crime arrests by an average of 250% for each of those cities. And there has been a drastic reduction in crime across the board in mid-major cities across this country, thanks to the men and women of the FBI.

(29:01)
How are we doing that? We are attacking the drug epidemic. We've seized nearly 1,000 kilograms of meth and cocaine off the streets of America. We've taken over 1,600 kilograms of fentanyl off the streets, maybe one of the greatest achievements we have this year. 1,600 kilograms of fentanyl, that's a 25% increase from the same time last year. To put things in perspective, that's enough fentanyl to kill a third of the American populace, 115 million Americans.

(29:32)
We're also going after the companies that manufacture these precursors overseas in places like mainland China and their cutting agents. In fact, this month in Cincinnati, we announced groundbreaking charges aimed at the individuals and businesses responsible for flooding these opioids and their precursors and cutting agents into the streets of America. And for the first time that I can remember, we are charging these businesses and enterprises, not just in America, but in mainland China and seizing their operational necessity to have money by seizing their cryptocurrency wallets.

(30:06)
Equally important to protecting the homeland, we know we have a no-fail mission. We're committed to keeping our nation safe from terrorism, cyber attacks and foreign adversaries. Whether stopping threats inspired by foreign terrorist organizations or lone wolf attackers who are sponsored by hostile nation states. This year, we've already made nearly 60 counterintelligence arrests. 60 counterintelligence arrests this year alone is a 30% increase from the same time period last year for the CI work at the FBI. I'm proud when we can share our successes such as when an espionage charge was brought against an active-duty US Navy sailor caught spying for the People's Republic of China.

(30:46)
But I want the American people to know the FBI is protecting the homeland from foreign adversaries in a way that will never make the news and a lot of the good work that they do will never be able to discussed in this setting. We're working on cyber threats. We're attacking malware infrastructure, going after ransomware attackers, delivering a new partnership with the private-public sector, engagements we've taken with the companies who are attacked by these foreign adversaries and nation state actors and individual enterprise rings from around the world.

(31:14)
We are combating Salt Typhoon, Vault Typhoon, Flax Typhoon, and so many other ransomware and cyber threats this nation faces. We're also arresting people, such as a Tajik national in Brooklyn, who is suspected of sending tens of thousands of dollars to support ISIS. We're going after the new form of what I refer to as modern-day terrorism in America. 764 crimes that involve harming our children by going after them online, causing self-mutilation, suicide, sexual abuse, and steering them in the wrong direction.

(31:49)
Currently, we have 3,500 international terrorism investigations. Specifically, we have, in this country, 1,700 domestic terrorism investigations, a large chunk of which are nihilistic violent extremism, NVE. Those who engage in violent acts, motivated by a deep hatred of society, whatever that justification they seem is. The FBI has seen a 300% increase in cases opened this year alone versus the same time last year. In the last couple of months, the FBI secured a guilty plea for a man in Tennessee who attacked an energy facility with drones and explosives.

(32:24)
We secured the indictment of violent Sinaloa Cartel faction leader in Chicago on narco-terrorism charges. Our folks in Sacramento collaborated with domestic and international partners to secure a guilty plea for leader of a transnational terrorist organization who solicited the murder of federal officials.

(32:40)
But the Bureau's job is not done. I'm committed to this transparency. Mr. Chairman, you alluded to our work with Congress. To date, in the seven months that I've been FBI director, we have produced 33,000 pages to the United States Congress, 33,000 pages. Just to put that in perspective, my predecessor in his seven-year term issued 13,000 pages to Congress and his predecessor in his four-year term issued 3,000 pages to Congress. I've issued 33,000 pages in seven months and we're going to keep going. I'm dedicated to restoring the trust that the public has it needs and the integrity at the FBI, and it's being done every day by the men and women of the FBI.

(33:17)
Now, I know that there's a lot of talk about Epstein, and I'm here to testify that the original sin in the Epstein case was the way it was initially brought by Mr. Acosta back in 2006. The original case involved a very limited search warrant or set of search warrants and didn't take as much investigatory material it should have seized. If I were the FBI director then, it wouldn't have happened. The search warrants were limited to small time periods to include 2002 to 2005 and 1997 to 2001. Mr. Acosta allowed Epstein to enter in 2008 to a plea and non-prosecution agreement, which then the courts issued mandates and protective orders, legally prohibiting anyone from ever seeing that material ever again without the permission of the court. The non-prosecution agreements also barred future prosecutions for those involved at that time of those individuals. Still, this administration, at the direction of President Trump, has done more to turn over all the credible information we are legally able to do so and we will continue to work with Congress to achieve that end.

(34:22)
Thank you for your support for our mission to working to jointly deliver transparency and congressional oversight to the United States. Lastly, I want to close with the president's initiative here in Washington DC as an example of what we're doing around the country, and I think our next city is Memphis. 21,000 arrests in DC with our federal partners, a huge decrease in violent crime, 60% decrease in gun crimes in Washington DC in the last month. 74% decrease in carjackings in Washington DC in the last month. 53% decrease in homicides in Washington DC

Kash Patel (35:00):

… in the last month. The drugs are disappearing, people are freely walking around the states, and we're restoring the nation's capital to its glory. That work is through the interagency process that the FBI is proud to be a part of, and the initiative spearheaded by President Trump and the attorney general. And perhaps most notably for investigations, in Washington itself, it was the intelligence that the FBI gathered through our source network here in D.C. that helped us identify the suspects in the horrific murder of the D.C. intern Eric Tarpinian. We're proud to be a part of that investigation, we're proud to put the resources to bear of the FBI.

(35:35)
And in closing, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee and Ranking Member Durbin, I'm honored to be the ninth director of the FBI. I'm not going anywhere. If you want to criticize my 16 years of service, please bring it on. Over to you.

Chuck Grassley (36:00):

I've observed when whether it's Republican or Democrats want a yes or no answer, that the witness and the senators talking over each other, so I thought what I'd do this time, rather than have that happen, if there's something you don't get a chance to answer because of the demeanor of a Republican or Democrat senator, when we get done with that question, I'd give you a chance to fill in if there's something you didn't get a chance to say.

(36:40)
Since 2019, I've sought greater transparency about Jeffrey Epstein and the government handling of the matter. I've continued to investigate during this Congress. Director Patel, was Jeffrey Epstein an intelligence asset for the United States government or the foreign government, and if so, which agencies or governments?

Kash Patel (37:07):

Mr. Chairman, I can only speak to the FBI as the director of the FBI, and Mr. Epstein was not a source for the FBI.

Chuck Grassley (37:12):

Okay. Would you commit to providing my office with all classified and unclassified records relating to the Epstein matter?

Kash Patel (37:22):

I will commit to providing all records I'm legally permitted to do so under the court orders.

Chuck Grassley (37:32):

It seems to me that… I accept your answer to my question, but the broader intelligence community ought to answer these questions as well. Victims deserve an answer.

(37:48)
Regarding the initial FBI 1023 document that I made public last Congress, that document mentioned one, text messages, two, audio recordings, and three, financial records that allegedly proved a bribery scheme with the Biden family and foreign interests. Regarding those records, did the Wray FBI make any effort to determine whether they existed? Did the Wray FBI make any effort to obtain those records?

Kash Patel (38:24):

Not to my knowledge, Mr. Chairman.

Chuck Grassley (38:26):

Since this matter hasn't been fully investigated, the FBI has an obligation to the public to do exactly that and figure out why it wasn't investigated.

(38:38)
Next question. I've done a lot of oversight relating to sexual misconduct by the FBI agents. In fact, I believe this is something I discussed with Wray, one of his appearances before this committee. According to the FBI Inspection Division, it opened nearly 300 investigations based on sexual misconduct referrals between 2017 and 2024. According to whistleblowers of Biden/Wray, FBI totally dropped the ball on this question. One credible accusation of sexual misconduct is too many, of course. Are you committed to reviewing the Bureau's policies to ensure responses to credible allegations of misconduct, that they are swift and adequately protect victims?

Kash Patel (39:33):

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Chuck Grassley (39:35):

Relating to a similar subject, during child crimes and sexual misconduct-related investigations, are any private sector companies less than cooperative with you? What improvements in information sharing need to be made to catch those criminals?

Kash Patel (39:55):

Mr. Chairman, we can always do better with our private sector companies. I've reached out to the leaders of most of them, asking them to provide more material so that we can be responsive and take legal action and protect the youth of this country. I'm happy to discuss possible legislation that we can do to allow for these companies to continue.

Chuck Grassley (40:14):

Say maybe one inch up on the microphone.

Kash Patel (40:18):

Sorry.

Chuck Grassley (40:19):

I think you're close enough, but I think it's just a little bit lower. When you raise your head, it's difficult to hear.

(40:26)
Director Patel, since 2021, I raised concerns about the Biden administration failure to properly vet Afghan evacuees. Director Gabbard informed my office that as of August 2022, approximately 1,600 evacuees located in the United States had ties to terrorism and other derogatory information. That's why I and many others have opposed bills giving blanket approval. Are you aware of what steps your predecessor took to investigate these evacuees, and what steps have you taken to investigate them, and what, if any, national security concerns still exist?

Kash Patel (41:13):

Mr. Chairman, I can't speak to the steps my predecessor took, but I will make sure we do a sweeping review and get back to you on that. As far as the Afghan refugees and evacuees during my tenure, we are going through the databases to make sure that no known or suspected terrorists enter this country to harm our nation. And also, as my resolve as FBI director, one of the first acts we undertook was a manhunt of one of the Abbey Gate bombers and leaders in that crime spree that killed 13 brave Americans, and within two weeks, within two weeks, we caught one of the leaders of the Abbey Gate bomber, and brought him to justice here, in two weeks, from Pakistan. And so my commitment to you on Afghanistan in all matters is complete and without border.

Chuck Grassley (41:59):

Yeah. Through my and other investigations, we found that the Biden administration lost thousands of undocumented children. We never heard a peep from senators wanting to help find them, even after I invited them to do so. In September 2025, the Trump Health & Human Services announced the creation of an interagency crime coordinator cell to find these and other missing children. That interagency group reportedly includes your agency. What resources and personnel have the FBI assigned to this new interagency effort, and what steps have the FBI taken to assist in locating missing children that the incompetent Biden administration lost?

Kash Patel (42:54):

Protecting our youth is maybe the top priority for the FBI. As it specifically relates to your question, Mr. Chairman, as I stated, we've surged resources not just to this cell but across the nation to our FBI's field office to locate children who have been trafficked, who have been victims of sexual abuse, and we have located 4,700 children in the seven months since I've been FBI director, and that is a 35% increase from the same time period last year, and we're not stopping, and we're committed to doing that work on our tribal lands as well, and we are finding victims of child trafficking and child abuse, every county, in every district, and we're not going to stop.

Chuck Grassley (43:33):

Okay. As I mentioned during my opening, I'm releasing documents with Senator Johnson about Arctic Frost. Specifically, the documents show its scope expanded to include 92 Republican organizations. From evidence that I've seen, it looks to me like another political hit job against Republicans. What steps has the FBI taken to make sure improperly predicated investigations and weaponizations like this don't happen again?

Kash Patel (44:04):

The simple answer, Mr. Chairman, is the FBI will only bring cases that are based in fact and law and have a legal basis to do so, and anyone that does otherwise will not be employed at the FBI. We are doing a prospective and retrospective analysis of individuals who may have weaponized the department and the agency, and as I've committed to you during my confirmation hearing and my conversations with you, this FBI will not be weaponized anymore in either side of the aisle.

Chuck Grassley (44:30):

In June of this year, I raised concerns about the FBI's use of Restricted Access and Prohibited Access systems. According to the FBI, quote, "When search teams that exist in a Prohibited-Access status cases are searched in Sentinel, the particular search will receive a false negative Sentinel search response." End quote. Clearly, this not only affects FBI agents, it impacts congressional requests and court cases, and the Biden administration used it to thwart oversight. How are you ensuring that Restricted Access and Prohibited Access files are produced to Congress during court cases? And have you identified any Biden family records in Restricted and Prohibited status?

Kash Patel (45:34):

As I've committed to you with my transparency initiative, whether it's Restrictive or Prohibited, every single thing we can legally provide to Congress, we will. We've also restructured how these Restrictive and Prohibited cases are labeled, and provided access to more people in the chain of command, so that more people have knowledge of what these Restricted and Prohibited cases are, including myself and the deputy.

Chuck Grassley (45:56):

Do you commit to providing any records that are available?

Kash Patel (46:01):

I do, sir.

Chuck Grassley (46:05):

You publicly said that your team, quote, "found a room that Comey and others hid from the world in the Hoover Building full of documents and computer hard drives no one had ever seen or heard of." That's a quote from you. I've received a whistleblower disclosure that the room contained some information kept outside the FBI record keeping. I also have been informed via a whistleblower disclosure that the room included materials related to Special Counsel Mueller, former Director James Comey, and other documents maintained outside of the FBI. Has the FBI now reviewed and analyzed those records? Has the FBI properly recorded the documents? And these records are clearly responsive to my as well as my colleagues' congressional requests. What steps have you taken to ensure all responsive records are produced to Congress? That has to be my last question.

Kash Patel (47:12):

What's supposed to happen is leadership at the FBI is supposed to, pursuant to the Records Act, correctly store these records at our Information Management Division, IMD. In this room, we found a plethora of hard drives, computers, hard documents, soft documents that were not so recorded, a voluminous amount of information. So, we are continuously processing that information, so A, we subscribe to the Records Act and commit that those records will be kept permanently at the FBI. Two, we are reviewing those materials. A lot of those materials are related to ongoing investigations. And three, we are, on a rolling basis, providing Congress the documents that we can and we will continue to do so.

Chuck Grassley (47:56):

Okay, thank you very much. Senator Durbin?

Dick Durbin (47:58):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Director Patel, in addition to the extensive purge of nonpartisan career FBI official reports, reports indicate that dozens of remaining officials have been subjected to polygraph exams to test their loyalty. My understanding is that approximately 40 officials have been asked to sit for a polygraph during your administration, and several have been asked whether they have ever made negative comments about you. Director Patel, FBI agents pledge their loyalty to the Constitution in the United States, not you personally. What is the basis for requiring polygraph exams of your workforce and asking them if they've made negative comments about you?

Kash Patel (48:43):

I don't know what reports… I don't know what reports you're referring to, Ranking Member, and I reject any reporting that has false information in it, so I'm not going to respond to that. As far as polygraphs go, generally they're always and always have been utilized at the FBI to track down those that leak sensitive information and have unauthorized disclosures to the media, and we will continue to use them to ensure the integrity of the FBI.

Dick Durbin (49:04):

Did any individual on your senior executive team, the director's advisory team, or who serve in the positions on the seventh floor receive disqualifying alerts on their polygraphs?

Kash Patel (49:16):

Senator, I'm not going to get into the personnel discussions that were had on a polygraph, those are private discussions, and many of them relate to ongoing investigations.

Dick Durbin (49:25):

Did you or Attorney General Bondi provide any individual with a waiver so they can remain employed after they received disqualifying alerts on their polygraphs?

Kash Patel (49:34):

I'll have to get back to you.

Dick Durbin (49:36):

You don't remember that?

Kash Patel (49:37):

No, sir. My priority is protecting the American public, not getting into the weeds of polygraphs.

Dick Durbin (49:42):

And to have a decent memory when you come before a committee.

Kash Patel (49:45):

I'm happy to talk about all the good work the men and women of the FBI are doing, including provided the lowest crime rate in American history. If you want to talk how to protect the citizens of Chicago, has seen a 30% reduction in its murder rate because of the men and women of the FBI-

Dick Durbin (49:55):

Do you take credit for that?

Kash Patel (49:56):

… I'll happily do that.

Dick Durbin (49:57):

Do you take credit-

Kash Patel (49:58):

The interagency partners and the men and women of the Chicago PD have never been more powerful.

Dick Durbin (50:02):

Include local law enforcement, please.

Kash Patel (50:04):

Have you ever seen my testimony across this country where I always lead with our interagency partnerships with state and local law enforcement? It is the pillar of what I'm doing. And on the seventh floor, for the first time in FBI history, I have installed police officers and sheriffs right on my seventh floor to report to us, every day, what's going around the country on the street level, because that is a priority of the FBI and is the only way we are going to work. I don't take credit for anything, but I will defend the men and women of the FBI and the cops that help us get it done.

Dick Durbin (50:33):

You should.

(50:34)
Director Patel, to your knowledge, did a whistleblower ever make a disclosure to Attorney General Bondi indicating that the New York field office was withholding Epstein-related records?

Kash Patel (50:45):

I'm not familiar with that whistleblower.

Dick Durbin (50:49):

You know that there was such a whistleblower?

Kash Patel (50:51):

I'm not familiar with that whistleblower.

Dick Durbin (50:53):

In response to the blowback she received, Attorney General Bondi also pushed the FBI to review approximately 100,000 Epstein-related records on an arbitrarily short deadline in March, and the FBI was directed to flag any documents that mentioned President Trump. Nothing came of that review until July, when DOJ and FBI released an unsigned memorandum stating there is no incriminating client list. Why was this July 7th memorandum unsigned?

Kash Patel (51:23):

Would you prefer I've used autopen?

Dick Durbin (51:27):

Why was it unsigned?

Kash Patel (51:27):

The memorandum had the insignia of the Department of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and in our effort to secure transparency for the American people, because the three prior administrations had not done so, we conducted an exhaustive search of everything related to the Epstein cases, and we produced what was legally and permissibly able to be produced to Congress and the American public-

Dick Durbin (51:46):

So, did you personally… Did you-

Kash Patel (51:46):

… and there's a congressional subpoena, and we're continuing to do so.

Dick Durbin (51:49):

Did you personally direct that investigation, so that you would sign such? Or-

Kash Patel (51:54):

Did I personally direct what investigation?

Dick Durbin (51:56):

Of the Epstein records for any reference to President Trump?

Kash Patel (52:01):

Again, you are citing reporting that I think is baseless. We conducted an investigation of the Epstein case files, pursuant to the direction of the president of the administration, to provide all credible information, and we are working with Congress, pursuant to a congressional subpoena, to turn over all the documents we can. All individuals-

Dick Durbin (52:18):

Who at DOJ and FBI was responsible for its drafting and conclusions?

Kash Patel (52:24):

Many individuals at the Department of Justice and the FBI are responsible.

Dick Durbin (52:26):

There was no lead person?

Kash Patel (52:29):

The attorney general leads the Department of Justice and I lead the FBI.

Dick Durbin (52:31):

So, the attorney general was responsible for that?

Kash Patel (52:35):

The attorney general leads the Department of Justice.

Dick Durbin (52:40):

Director Patel, much like you, Deputy Director Dan Bongino was a conspiracy theorist who built a lucrative career making inflammatory and unsubstantiated statements about the FBI that would be disqualifying in any administration that cared about nonpartisan law enforcement. For instance, Mr. Bongino called the placement of pipe bombs outside the DNC and RNC headquarters on January 6th, quote, an "inside job" and went on to say, "This was a setup. I have zero doubt. And whoever goes into the FBI, you better get an answer about why." Director Patel, you and Deputy Director Bongino are now leading the FBI. What is the evidence to suggest the pipe bombs placed outside of the DNC and RNC on January 6th were an inside job?

Kash Patel (53:27):

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss Director Bongino's and mine record. So many on this committee and the media jettison our 31 years of public service prior to taking-

Dick Durbin (53:36):

Can you answer the question, sir?

Kash Patel (53:37):

I'm answering the question. You're questioning the integrity of the deputy director of the FBI and mine.

Dick Durbin (53:42):

I'm asking if you found any evidence.

Kash Patel (53:42):

And I'm going to answer the question.

Dick Durbin (53:43):

I'm asking-

Kash Patel (53:44):

The pipe bomb investigation is ongoing and I'm not going to discuss the details-

Dick Durbin (53:47):

Ongoing?

Kash Patel (53:48):

… of the pipe bomb investigation.

(53:50)
Mr. Bongino was a Secret Service agent for 15 years, a police officer for five. I served this country in multiple administrations for 16 years. We were also private citizens, and we are now back in government service. And what we have the ability to do is set aside our personal beliefs to deliver the mission of justice for this country and we're doing it day in and day out. And I find it disgusting that everyone and anyone would jettison our 31 years of combined experience that is now at the helm of the FBI, delivering historic results at historic speeds for the American people.

Dick Durbin (54:21):

So, you have no evidence?

Kash Patel (54:23):

I got a lot of evidence and I'll give it to you when I can.

Dick Durbin (54:25):

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

(54:27)
There's a New York Times story this morning about Chris Meyer. As I understand it, he was your personal pilot at least for some period of time. Mr. Meyer has quite a record himself: flew over 350 hours as an Air Force pilot on three aircraft types in Afghanistan. Mr. Giardina, another former FBI agent, a 1999 graduate of U.S. Naval Academy, commanded 100 Marines in combat during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, participated in several firefights, followed up with 2011 deployment as a reservist to Afghanistan, where he interrogated senior Taliban officials. It appears that you terminated these two agents. Why?

Kash Patel (55:08):

I'm not going to get into personnel decisions that we made.

Dick Durbin (55:12):

So, you're not accountable for your decisions to take people who served our country so admirably and terminate them without any cause?

Kash Patel (55:20):

That's a one-sided story. Anyone that has been terminated from the FBI, generally speaking-

Dick Durbin (55:24):

Tell your side of the story.

Kash Patel (55:25):

… fail to meet the needs of the FBI and uphold their constitutional duties. And you providing a one-sided story from your perch is absolutely disgraceful, because the men and women of the FBI deserve better. And your attack on the current leadership of the men and women of the FBI is equally disgraceful, because now you're attacking the leaders that are our brave SACs and the few-

Dick Durbin (55:44):

Let me tell you what's disgraceful.

Kash Patel (55:45):

… who are doing the job that this country-

Dick Durbin (55:48):

Disgraceful.

Kash Patel (55:48):

… needs.

Dick Durbin (55:49):

It's disgraceful-

Kash Patel (55:49):

And we will continue to do it.

Dick Durbin (55:51):

Excuse me, it's disgraceful when Mr. Meyer and Mr. Giardina, who served our country so well, are terminated apparently because of the rants of a broadcaster.

Kash Patel (56:00):

That is your opinion. It is not a fact.

Dick Durbin (56:02):

Well, it's certainly my opinion I can back up with fact.

(56:05)
Let me ask you to explain the situation in Baltimore, if you will. Did you read the story about the termination of the project in Baltimore?

Kash Patel (56:15):

Which story?

Dick Durbin (56:15):

764 group.

Kash Patel (56:17):

Sorry? Which story?

Dick Durbin (56:19):

764 group the Baltimore agents were investigating. Are you familiar with that?

Kash Patel (56:25):

No, sir.

Dick Durbin (56:26):

Well, I'm not going to go into detail, it'll take too long to do it, but apparently that this group, 764, a nihilistic, violent extremist group, seeks to blackmail children to perform vile acts on a camera, under investigation by Baltimore, which was terminated by you. I'd like you to respond in writing, if you will, as to the circumstances of that termination.

Kash Patel (56:51):

Sure. Our operations against NVEs, as you're referring to, has been historically high, and we've taken down multiple NVE rings, including 764 rings, who are harming children, and causing them to be mutilated and to commit suicide.

Dick Durbin (57:03):

Last question, can you explain why you are eliminating the requirements for a college degree for your agents?

Kash Patel (57:11):

I appreciate the opportunity to address that. You said in your opening statement we are reducing the training requirements at Quantico. We are not, we are expanding them. You're referring to an 1811 crossover program, because I believe the men and women of places like the DEA, the ATF, and the Marshals Service and the Secret Service who want to work at the FBI should deserve that opportunity in a shortened, abridged program, which we provided. We are also keeping the 18 week BFTC as it's traditionally been held at the FBI. So, we're not reducing any requirements, we are increasing those that we bring into the FBI.

Dick Durbin (57:42):

Did you change any of the requirements on college degrees?

Kash Patel (57:45):

We are allowing police officers who have served for a number of years to come into the FBI who did not obtain the requisite college degree to apply to be federal agents, because we feel they have the street level experience we need to conduct this mission.

Dick Durbin (57:59):

I yield, Mr. Chairman.

Chuck Grassley (58:02):

I have to respond to this business about you not treating employees properly, because I served under the previous administration, when Democrats willingly turned a blind eye to Biden administration retaliation against my whistleblowers. They didn't get due process when their careers and lives were upended. I'm talking about people like Dena Perkins, Jeffrey Veltri, Timothy Dunham were removed from their position. Several whistleblowers reported that they targeted FBI employees for their political beliefs by suspending and revoking security clearances. One FBI whistleblower said that Perkins, Veltri, Dunham, and other FBI leaderships were, quote, "responsible for what happened to me and my family. Ensuring that they no longer work at the FBI isn't retribution, it's responsible leadership." Another whistleblower that is a registered Democrat said they spoke out against abuses and security clearances processes committed by FBI senior leaders, particularly Veltri and Perkins, then Perkins and Dunham suspended their security clearances and put them in unpaid leave. I'm going to put some more examples like this in the record so I don't take up a lot of time for my colleagues. Senator Graham.

Lindsey Graham (59:37):

Thanks, Senator Grassley. Welcome to the committee. The numbers sort of speak for themselves. You've done a lot in a small period of time. So, all those folks out there making this happen, thank them for me.

Kash Patel (59:48):

Yes, sir.

Lindsey Graham (59:49):

As to how to be an FBI agent, you've made a decision that local law enforcement folks, people who have served in law enforcement without a college degree, are able to apply now, is that correct?

Kash Patel (01:00:02):

Yes, sir.

Lindsey Graham (01:00:03):

Makes sense to me. So, experience out in the field might be as valuable as a college degree, believe it or not.

(01:00:13)
Venezuela. We're blowing boats out of the water in the Caribbean because they're connected to international narcoterrorist groups. Is that correct?

Kash Patel (01:00:26):

Yes. That mission is being led by the Department of Defense, sir.

Lindsey Graham (01:00:29):

Okay. What legal authority do we have to do that?

Kash Patel (01:00:33):

Sir, I would defer the questions on legal authority to the attorney general and the department.

Lindsey Graham (01:00:37):

Fair enough. Do you believe that Maduro runs a narcoterrorism state in Venezuela? Based on-

Kash Patel (01:00:46):

I believe, based on the intelligence and prosecutions and investigations we are currently running, a large portion of the cocaine that exits out of South America, its origination point is in Venezuela, and using transshipment points through Haiti, they're using the navigable waterways in the Caribbean to the end state delivery, which is the United States of America. And we will hunt down every single one of those narco traffickers with the authorities we have.

Lindsey Graham (01:01:10):

There's some actual indictments of Maduro as an individual for being involved in that. Is that correct?

Kash Patel (01:01:15):

Senator, I think you're referring to the DEA indictment on that one?

Lindsey Graham (01:01:18):

Yeah, right. So, I guess the point is, would it be fair to say that Venezuela is a good candidate to be labeled as a state sponsor of terrorism under U.S. law?

Kash Patel (01:01:29):

Senator, from my perch, we will provide the intelligence necessary for anyone who meets the threshold to be a state sponsor of terrorism this administration has expanded.

Lindsey Graham (01:01:37):

I think they are. So, we'll be going down that road.

(01:01:40)
China. On a scale of one to 10, one being nothing, 10 being great, how is China helping with a fentanyl problem here in the United States?

Kash Patel (01:01:51):

Under this administration, we have taken, as I highlighted, the Cincinnati case. The precursors are the problem. The fentanyl is the end state that kills American citizens.

Lindsey Graham (01:02:01):

Well, precursors are made in China.

Kash Patel (01:02:03):

They're made in China. And so for the first time in a decade, I had a call with my counterpart in the MPS, the Ministry of Public Services, to attack the precursor chemical companies and have those chemicals labeled.

Lindsey Graham (01:02:15):

Is it too early to rate the success?

Kash Patel (01:02:18):

We have indicted multiple businesses in China. We've also cut off the transshipment points of those precursors. They switched. Once we got on their track about their delivery routes to the Mexican drug cartels directly, they started going to India. We call the Indian authorities and they shut down those transshipment points. So, we're continuing to work with our partners overseas.

Lindsey Graham (01:02:36):

So, China's helping, would you say?

Kash Patel (01:02:38):

They are starting to help, and we are hoping, under this administration's leadership, we can get more help.

Lindsey Graham (01:02:44):

Well, let me know, in the coming months, if that continues, because if they are helping, that's a good thing.

Kash Patel (01:02:50):

Yes, sir.

Lindsey Graham (01:02:50):

I think we need to celebrate the breakthrough. If they're not, that would be a bad thing.

(01:02:55)
So, after the assassination of Charlie Kirk, there seems to be one refrain from everybody, and that's about the effect of social media. Do you believe that social media is one of the instruments radicalizing America and inciting violence?

Kash Patel (01:03:13):

Well, it's not… My belief is based on the data, and the data shows that social media is wildly out of control when it comes to radicalizing.

Lindsey Graham (01:03:22):

You're dead right. So, what did he just say? This guy's the FBI director. He says that "social media is wildly out of control". Now, free speech, we all agree with that, but you can't yell fire in the theater, right?

Kash Patel (01:03:33):

Yes, sir.

Lindsey Graham (01:03:34):

Free speech doesn't allow you to go online and groom a child for sexual-

Kash Patel (01:03:39):

No, it does not.

Lindsey Graham (01:03:40):

Okay. Free speech doesn't allow you to go on the internet and basically incite somebody to kill another person, right?

Kash Patel (01:03:47):

Absolutely not.

Lindsey Graham (01:03:48):

So, if it's illegal offline, it should be illegal online, agreed? Whatever the law is.

Kash Patel (01:03:55):

Yes, sir. Yeah.

Lindsey Graham (01:03:56):

Just because you're online, doesn't give you a get out of jail free card.

Kash Patel (01:03:59):

No, sir.

Lindsey Graham (01:03:59):

So, if a parent is worried about a child being bullied on a website, what rights do they have under US law?

Kash Patel (01:04:07):

We have to balance the rights, as you said, Senator, of free speech, versus those that encroach upon violence.

Lindsey Graham (01:04:12):

Is there any law that can shut down one of these sites for bullying children or allowing sexual predators on the site?

Kash Patel (01:04:19):

We are able to attack certain sites on the dark web. When it comes to the open internet infrastructure system, we have to reach a threshold to attack a company's position that only subscribes to violence.

Lindsey Graham (01:04:31):

Can the parents sue that company?

Kash Patel (01:04:34):

They can.

Lindsey Graham (01:04:35):

They can?

Kash Patel (01:04:36):

They can sue… Not the social media companies.

Lindsey Graham (01:04:38):

That's what I'm talking about.

Kash Patel (01:04:39):

They can sue the companies-

Lindsey Graham (01:04:41):

I'm talking about the social media company that gives lifes to this behavior.

Kash Patel (01:04:45):

No, you're referring to Section 230, sir.

Lindsey Graham (01:04:47):

Yeah. Would you advocate a sunsetting of Section 230 to bring more liability to the companies who send this stuff out?

Kash Patel (01:04:57):

I've advocated for that for years.

Lindsey Graham (01:04:59):

All right. We need to do this, folks. These companies are taking content that it makes you sick, that could get you killed, get you poisoned, and there's nothing we can do about it under our law… A person can do about it because Section 230. So, if your child is being sexually groomed online, or bullied online, and you go to the social media company and ask them to take it down, they refuse. You have zero rights. How many images of sexually exploited children are purveyed every year on social media sites?

Kash Patel (01:05:42):

The number is astronomical. And Senator, if I can just add one step to that analysis?

Lindsey Graham (01:05:47):

Please.

Kash Patel (01:05:47):

It's not just what's on social media that is, quote-unquote, "real". It's the introduction of artificial intelligence and generative AI that is creating even more child sexually abused material and even more sexually violent acts online and mimicking people.

Lindsey Graham (01:06:04):

Would you say that the way social media's structured today, really no accountability, 36 million images in 2023 of sexually exploited children, that this is a public health hazard?

Kash Patel (01:06:18):

It is.

Lindsey Graham (01:06:19):

Would you say that it's a mental health problem, particularly for younger people?

Kash Patel (01:06:23):

It absolutely is.

Lindsey Graham (01:06:25):

Do you agree that some of these sites are designed to be addictive?

Kash Patel (01:06:29):

I think not only are some of these sites designed to be addictive, unfortunately the reality is some of these sites are designed to generate income, and many people are generating income based on this illegal trade.

Lindsey Graham (01:06:41):

Do you think it's now time for America to deal with this problem?

Kash Patel (01:06:45):

I'm all in, I have been all in, and I'm happy to work with Congress to do so.

Lindsey Graham (01:06:48):

Well, I tell you what, having the FBI director all in is great news for me, and I hope the committee will respond, and that we'll be all in trying to fix a problem that I think is doing a lot of damage to our country.

(01:07:03)
When it comes to John Bolton, was there new evidence involved in the raid on his home?

Kash Patel (01:07:10):

Sir, that investigation is very much ongoing, as you know. There was a raid of his house pursuant to a legal search warrant.

Lindsey Graham (01:07:16):

Was there a warrant obtained to go in?

Kash Patel (01:07:18):

Absolutely, sir.

Lindsey Graham (01:07:18):

Okay. All right.

Kash Patel (01:07:20):

We're looking to have that search warrant unsealed at the appropriate time.

Lindsey Graham (01:07:24):

Yeah, I think that would be good, quite frankly.

(01:07:27)
In December 2023, Director Wray said he sees "blinking lights everywhere" regarding to foreign terrorist threats against our homeland. How would you characterize the state of threats to our homeland by foreign terrorist groups?

Kash Patel (01:07:44):

Foreign terrorist organizations have adapted and started utilizing online platforms, and so has the FBI. And so while they're adapting, expanding how they harm our country, we have as well. They have not stopped. There has been a resurgence in places like West Africa and elsewhere of foreign terrorist organizations, and also the newly emboldened drug trafficking organizations in Mexico. It's going to take a whole-of-government approach to get [inaudible 01:08:08].

Lindsey Graham (01:08:08):

Does Hezbollah fall within that group?

Kash Patel (01:08:10):

Yes, sir.

Lindsey Graham (01:08:11):

So, Hezbollah is involved in not only terrorism but narcoterrorism?

Kash Patel (01:08:15):

Yes, sir.

Lindsey Graham (01:08:16):

So, do you consider Hezbollah a threat to the United States?

Kash Patel (01:08:20):

Absolutely.

Lindsey Graham (01:08:22):

All right.

(01:08:22)
Finally, do you have enough people-

Kash Patel (01:08:28):

Sorry?

Lindsey Graham (01:08:28):

… to do all this? Do you need more people? You're involved in a lot of things and the numbers speak for themselves. You have FBI agents helping here in Washington, D.C. You have FBI agents helping in illegal immigration. That's good. You've got a chance here to tell us if you need more people. Seems to me that threat level of this country is pretty high right now. You've got thousands of domestic terrorism cases. How many are being investigated?

Kash Patel (01:08:59):

I think 3,500, off the top of my head.

Lindsey Graham (01:09:01):

3,500, okay. Anyway, seems your plate's pretty full. I would urge you to get with your people and if you think you need more people, now's the time to do it. It would be a shame to miss an opportunity to plus up the FBI if the threats justified it. Will you look?

Kash Patel (01:09:25):

I will look, sir.

Lindsey Graham (01:09:26):

Okay. But are you comfortable you have enough people right now?

Kash Patel (01:09:29):

Right now, I'm comfortable with the reallocation of agents and personnel outside of Washington, D.C. and plusing up states like South Carolina in double-digit numbers. And I'll get back with my team on this one.

Lindsey Graham (01:09:38):

Thank you for your service.

Chuck Grassley (01:09:39):

Senator Whitehouse?

Sheldon Whitehouse (01:09:43):

Boy, is my timing good.

Chuck Grassley (01:09:46):

It is very good.

Sheldon Whitehouse (01:09:48):

Director Patel, welcome.

Chuck Grassley (01:09:50):

Thank you, sir.

Sheldon Whitehouse (01:09:51):

When you were here for your confirmation, we talked about your so-called enemies list.

Mr. Whitehouse (01:10:00):

It appears to me that there have been adverse actions of various kinds taken against about 20 of the 60 people on your enemies list. You've been in office for seven months. At that rate, you've got 14 months until you've hit all 60. Can you explain that?

Kash Patel (01:10:24):

Again, that is an entirely inaccurate presupposition. I do not have an enemies list, you can continue to characterize it as you wish. The only actions we take, generally speaking, for personnel at the FBI are ones based on merit and qualification, and your ability to uphold your constitutional duty. You fall short, you don't work there anymore.

Mr. Whitehouse (01:10:43):

Well, there was a list. You don't like it to be called an enemies list, and it had about 60 names, and about 20 have had an adverse action. So those are, I think, pretty clear facts. Let me move on to your grand jury testimony, which we also talked about when you were here. I think you indicated that you understood that a witness in the grand jury is free to discuss afterwards whatever they told the grand jury. And you then went on to suggest, saying, "I can't go into court orders granted by the D.C. District Chief Judge, and you want me to violate a court order." In those remarks, you fairly plainly suggested there was a court order of some kind that somehow restricted, or limited your ability to discuss your own testimony to that grand jury.

(01:11:54)
Since then, that chief judge that you mentioned, Judge Boasberg, has written, and I'm quoting him here, "Federal Rule of Criminal procedure 6e allows witnesses like Patel to divulge the contents of their testimony, meaning that nothing was preventing him from doing so before the Committee." Can we confirm here today that there is no court order of any kind that limits your ability as a witness before the grand jury to discuss your own testimony to that grand jury?

Kash Patel (01:12:33):

We can confirm that pursuant to my action that that grand jury testimony has been released, the transcript.

Mr. Whitehouse (01:12:48):

In what forum was it released, may I ask?

Kash Patel (01:12:50):

Publicly.

Mr. Whitehouse (01:12:51):

Okay. We'll check on that. The FBI does background investigations. In the case of a U.S. attorney Jeanine Pirro, it has come to light that, in a civil proceeding, that Fox News executives prior to her confirmation called her, I'm quoting here, "A reckless maniac," who makes, "insane" comments, and said, "I don't trust her to be responsible," and noted her penchant for what they called random conspiracy theories on weird internet sites. My question to you is, did that turn up in her background investigation?

Kash Patel (01:13:58):

For any background investigation, Senator, we do not discuss those publicly. And for every background investigation when there's adjudication, it is not made by me, it is made by the career professionals who run the inspection division and background check system.

Mr. Whitehouse (01:14:12):

Do you know if that information was found? You see, we're an oversight body here, and there are really three possibilities here. One, is that the FBI background investigation didn't find that stuff, that's worth noting because these investigations, full-field background investigations, are supposed to find that stuff. That's possibility one, possibility two is that the FBI did in fact find that information, and then did not report it to the administration or to the Committee.

(01:14:47)
And the third is that you found it, you reported it to the administration, and they went ahead with her nomination knowing that she had been described as a reckless maniac who made insane comments, who wasn't trusted by colleagues to be responsible, and who had a for random conspiracy theories on weird internet sites. Are you saying that this Committee does not have any authority or reason to look into which of those things is true?

Kash Patel (01:15:17):

This Committee can look into anything it wishes. I'm telling you that the background investigations that are done by the HRD division are done by career individuals. They do not report the details of those to me, they adjudicate those independently and individually. That's how it's always been done.

Mr. Whitehouse (01:15:34):

What happened during the pause of FBI background investigations that was alleged in the complaint against you and the FBI by the FBI agents who were terminated? On February 12th, Amil Bovey directed the FBI, "To pause any FBI background investigations of Trump nominees until Patel was confirmed," which happened on February 20th is the general description of what they alleged. Why, do you know, were background investigations paused? Was it so material like this could be scrubbed out of them? And have they been resumed without that pause fully and normally after your arrival on February 20th?

Kash Patel (01:16:23):

I can speak to the time period since I got there, background investigations have been ongoing across the board at the FBI.

Mr. Whitehouse (01:16:31):

Why was the pause, do you know?

Kash Patel (01:16:34):

I was not there.

Mr. Whitehouse (01:16:36):

Wasn't explained to you when you got there, "Oh, by the way, boss, they've had multi an eight-day pause on background investigations." You think that would be something that would be explained to you at some point?

Kash Patel (01:16:47):

Again, I leave it to the men and women at HRD division to run background investigations, I do not interfere with them.

Mr. Whitehouse (01:16:52):

I get that, but what I don't get is whether you were told about that pause, and why would you not be told about that pause?

Kash Patel (01:17:00):

I don't recall that, sir.

Mr. Whitehouse (01:17:03):

All right. The allegation also relates that part of the employee review of senior staff was whether or not they voted for Kamala Harris in the 2024 election. Since when is who you voted for a proper question for agents to be asked?

Kash Patel (01:17:41):

I don't know what allegation you're referring to, Senator. If it's from an ongoing matter in litigation, I can't discuss that. But what I can discuss is I can only speak to the FBI's background investigations. There are other background investigations conducted across the government. I can only speak to mine.

Mr. Whitehouse (01:18:00):

So just to clarify, I'm not talking about the FBI full-field background investigations, I'm talking about internal employee reviews for promotion, for termination, for job actions of various kinds. And my question to you is, is it now the policy of the FBI to ask agents who they voted for? And since when is who agents voted for a proper question for the FBI to ask?

Kash Patel (01:18:35):

Taking those in reverse order, it's not a proper question, and it's improper to allege that I'm doing that. And also at the FBI specifically, under my leadership, we do not ask who you voted for. And just one correction for the record if I may, Senator. It's security division that runs background investigations, not HRD.

Mr. Whitehouse (01:18:53):

Okay. I'll that correction. And in the event that we cannot locate your grand jury transcript, just expect a question for the record that will give you the chance to either provide that transcript again if it had been previously provided, or to make the statement that grand jury Rule 6e allows you to the best of your recollection, truthfully about what it is that you told that grand jury. Do you understand that?

Kash Patel (01:19:24):

That's why I wanted the transcript released, and we'll get it to you, sir.

Mr. Whitehouse (01:19:27):

Thank you very much. Thank you Chairman.

Chuck Grassley (01:19:29):

I think I want to take an opportunity when we hear about your political weaponization to remind my Democratic colleagues that what's happened the last decade, federal law enforcement, intelligence community, even when Trump was president, has thrown everything at him. They've even gone after his associates and Republican Party organizations. One investigation after another, one prosecution after another. I use the examples you've heard me already say today, Crossfire Hurricane and Arctic Frost. These were all built on defective foundations of political bias. And then we released the Clinton Index and Durham Index too, and the FBI's failures to investigate. So I've been acquainted with this because I've been trying to get to the bottom of it, and we had to get a new FBI director to get all this information. Senator Cornyn.

Mr. Cornyn (01:20:34):

Director Patel, welcome. Thank you for your willingness to serve in this very challenging position. How many people worked for the FBI today?

Kash Patel (01:20:46):

Approximately 36,500 give or take.

Mr. Cornyn (01:20:50):

I've always wondered whether an organization that big and that diffused all across the nation was actually capable of being managed. Have you experienced any surprises as the director in terms of your management of the organization?

Kash Patel (01:21:12):

In my experience, Senator, the leaders in the field are supposed to lead. So we have empowered and we have changed the structural operation of the FBI to empower SAC's in the 56 field office, 55, 56 come 01 October to lead the mission. We've also empowered the respective assistant directors and operational directors to lead the mission. That is how you manage 36,537 people, no one or two people can do it. And that's been the transition, is the power structure is being pushed out to the field operations.

Mr. Cornyn (01:21:42):

It sounds like a very practical way to approach it. And how is morale?

Kash Patel (01:21:49):

Morale when I travel around the country, in my experience has never been higher. The FBI and the police officers that we worked hand in glove with across this country are excited to do the work. And the stats that I'm citing are no achievement of mine, the stats that I'm citing in the seven months that I've been there such as a 42% increase in cyber arrests alone this year, is because the men and women at the FBI have been empowered in the field, they want to do the work, they're getting the opportunity to do the work. And with our great partners in the respective states like Texas where we just returned a top 10 most wanted fugitive in Cindy Singh are getting the ability to make those prosecutions a reality.

Mr. Cornyn (01:22:31):

By the way, Senator Durbin was asking about polygraphs. Aren't polygraphs a standard test given to people with security clearances across the intelligence community?

Kash Patel (01:22:43):

They are.

Mr. Cornyn (01:22:44):

As a condition to maintaining or security clearance.

Kash Patel (01:22:48):

I believe they are.

Mr. Cornyn (01:22:50):

Speaking of intelligence. One of the things that I've wondered about over time is, the FBI is a premier law enforcement agency in the nation, but you also have other important responsibilities in counterintelligence. And there's been different debates, or people wondering including me, whether that's an appropriate role for the FBI to play. And I guess the most challenging part of that is if it's not at the FBI, where would it go?

(01:23:28)
But given your background, I know as working on the HIPC and your intelligence background, can you talk a little bit about what you think about the counterintelligence role of the FBI agents? And how that's working, whether you think it's performing the way it should, or whether there are other changes or reforms need to be made in order to improve its functioning. As you know, the threats from our adversary nations are just proliferating every day. So what do you think?

Kash Patel (01:24:04):

The espionage activities of our adversaries have never been so high, and I think the counterintelligence mission is properly housed within the FBI because we've been vested with those authorities for Congress and I believe that mission set is working. And if I can, sir, since January 20th of this year, the FBI has made 55 arrests on the counterintelligence mission alone. That's a 30% increase in CI arrests from the same time year to date last year. 33% increase in PRC counterintelligence arrests, an 83% increase in Russia counterintelligence arrests from the same time last yeah, then a 60% increase on Iran counterintelligence arrests from the same time period this year. So we are already on total exceeding the entirety of the number of arrests from the previous year on counterintelligence matters across the board. And in my opinion, the FBI is the only agency that can do it. Now, we work with the inter-agency to do it, and we need them, but we have the mission set.

Mr. Cornyn (01:25:00):

Thank you. Sometimes I wonder whether sort of repeat the way we do things because we've always done it that way. And I'm getting up to building up to this issue of the narco trafficking, and what President Trump has ordered the defense department to do in terms of to take out some of these transnational criminal organizations that are importing poison into the United States, and responsible for killing tens of thousands of Americans, maybe hundreds of thousands of Americans over time.

(01:25:36)
Do you think a law enforcement model for dealing with these narco traffickers is adequate to deal with the threat, or do you think we need to start thinking about this in maybe new and different ways? Obviously, we're not engaged in a war per se, although it is a war metaphorically. And the law enforcement model seems to be not working from the standpoint of dealing with the volume of the threat and the magnitude of the threat. Do you think we need to start thinking about how do we deal within constitutional legal parameters to deal with this problem in a different way, to be more effective in protecting the American people?

Kash Patel (01:26:22):

Absolutely. And the way to analogize this, and why have advocated for the designation, and I'm thankful that the Trump administration has designated these cartels and narco traffickers as foreign terrorist organizations is because we must treat them like the foreign terrorist organizations post-9/11. We must treat them like the Al Qaeda's of the world because that's how that's how they are operating. And just treating them with law enforcement capabilities alone was wholly insufficient to wipe out the targets in their entirety, they always had the next man up philosophy. If you take out the leader, they got 10 guys behind him.

(01:26:50)
But in order to eliminate, and that's the key, eliminate the drug trade and eliminate the pouring into this country of narcotics, we have to use authorities at the Department of War and the intelligence community to go after the threat like we did terrorists when we were man-hunting them. And now we have that ability, and we're seeing that in live time, whether it's on the strike on the boat, or going down into Mexico and working with our Mexican authorities with these intelligence assets to say, "We've located, not just the person in charge or the cadre in charge, but the entire network, and we are now able to dismantle that entire network." It's going to take time, the manhunt after 9/11 took some years, and this is going to be a years long mission.

Mr. Cornyn (01:27:28):

Well, I'm glad you mentioned the counterterrorism mission because we've had a lot of experience, the U.s. government writ large with dealing with terrorism in the Middle East and elsewhere. And obviously some of our friends and allies like Mexico, for example, are very sensitive about sovereignty and being able to control what happens on their territory. But yet we're beginning to see more and more cooperation as you point out in that regard. And so in your opinion, has the counterterrorism model, have the lessons learned by the U.S. government writ large, are they being aggressively applied? Are there other things we need to do to make sure that those skills, those lessons learned are applied more broadly to the threat of narco trafficking?

Kash Patel (01:28:24):

I can only speak to the FBI, we are applying all of them to the CT mission set to the CN mission set. And we're using the new authorities given to our intelligence community partners in the Department of War to combine these collective efforts, and in a new way meeting together and creating an inter-agency process that gets after the threat dynamic. And whether that's in a kill operation, a capture operation, a surrender operation, or a host nation take-down like we did with the counterterrorism mission sets in Afghanistan, in Iraq, and Pakistan, and elsewhere, we are applying that to the drug traffickers in Mexico and Venezuela and Colombia.

Mr. Cornyn (01:29:00):

Thank you very much.

Chuck Grassley (01:29:01):

Ms. Klobuchar.

Klobuchar (01:29:04):

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We have seen too much political violence in this country, we all know that. Just last week, Director, your friend Charlie Kirk was gunned down on a college campus. I'm sorry for your loss. In Minnesota only two months ago a madman took the life of my friends, Melissa and Mark Hortman, shot Senator John Hoffman and his wife of that Yvette, combined 17 times. And evidence indicates that he would've killed a lot more if law enforcement hadn't intervened.

(01:29:39)
Just last month in my state, we were again shook to the core when little kids were shot down through stained glass windows in Annunciation Catholic Church in Minneapolis. And while the victims weren't politicians, in this case, they were 6-year-olds and 8-year-olds. The manifesto that the shooter left behind was political, but in the words of your own federal law enforcement, this person was an all-purpose hater. Went after Blacks, Hispanics, the president, Muslims, Jews, nearly everyone. And this happened during the first mass of the year for these kids. They were excited to see their friends meet their new teachers. And two children, 8-year-old Fletcher Merkel, 10-year-old Harper Moyski were murdered, 21 other people injured, some of the kids, 18 kids severely.

(01:30:34)
Fletcher was just starting 3rd grade. He loved his family, his friends, he loved fishing and cooking, in his dad's words, "Any sport he was allowed to play." Harper, the other child, we celebrated her life this Sunday, thousands of people. Her parents described her as bright, joyful, and a deeply loved 10-year-old whose laughter, kindness, and spirit touched everyone that she knew. We've heard the words of young children who were saved because 12-year-olds laid on top of them, or a kid with disabilities who was paralyzed, whose teacher pulled him out of the wheelchair, threw him under the pew and laid on top of him.

(01:31:13)
We do thank the local FBI director and the local U.S. Attorney's Office for their work in both of these cases, the Hortman case and this. But I did want to focus on one local law enforcement moment that I'm not sure has made with all the news going on in Minnesota. When the first 911 call, and you've heard about other places where this waited and waited. The first 911 call was made at 8:27 AM. The first officer was on the scene just four minutes later, local Minneapolis police at 8:31 AM. The Chief, Chief O'Hara shared with me the actual numbers. Listen to this, over 20 people were in ambulances just 14 minutes, all of them after the police got on the scene. 14 minutes after the first call, tourniquet, stretchers, and they got them all to Hennepin County Medical Center or Minneapolis Children's Hospital.

(01:32:15)
And I think it is worth looking at what happened there because one of the dads whose daughter was severely injured, still in the hospital that I met on Sunday, told me that there is absolutely no way his beautiful daughter would have survived if police hadn't been there. So it is worth looking at for all of us. So my focus on behalf of these parents because I promised I would do this on Sunday, was just to figure out how we can do anything to stop this from happening again. So expanded background checks, ghost gun bans, every shooting is different. Raising the minimum age to purchase assault weapons, even if we're not going to ban them, I favor banning them. But that's one idea that's out there. When so many of these shootings are people are 18, 19, 20, 21, the one at Annunciation Church was 23. Both shooters in Uvalde and Buffalo had just turned 18 when they purchased the assault weapon, man.

(01:33:15)
I'm not saying any one of these things would prevent every single shooting, but I really ask everyone to look at these. We also need to tackle social media, and I really did appreciate Senator Graham's questions. I think we have to protect free speech, and not engage in censorship. But for years I have supported repealing section 230, which was made when these companies were little companies starting up in garages. And I think it is one way to get at making this better environment online, and preventing violence. So my first question is on the assault weapon ban. Do you think that would be helpful in reducing gun deaths, Director?

Kash Patel (01:34:01):

Senator, if I may, I want to answer the question, but thank you for your remarks, especially it relates to my friend Charlie. And I share and relay my remarks, my sentiments to you. Minnesota has suffered untold tragedy in these last few months. And whatever creativity we can use to eliminate even just one shooting, one horrific death, I am in favor of engaging with Congress fully to do. I don't have the answers, I don't know what will eliminate it in its entirety, but I'm willing to engage and explore new ways with you, Senator.

Klobuchar (01:34:36):

Okay, thank you. And so assault weapon ban, what do you think?

Kash Patel (01:34:42):

Senator, I think there are instances on this legislation that could prevent future attacks, but I'm not going to weigh into the creation of legislation.

Klobuchar (01:34:56):

Could you also look at, and I favor just assault weapon ban, not getting these guns in the hands of people that shouldn't have them. But could you look at the numbers on the ages-

Kash Patel (01:35:08):

Yes.

Klobuchar (01:35:08):

… because from 18, even going from 18 to 21, which wouldn't have prevented the shooter in Annunciation Church from purchasing that gun, he purchased several the same day over 100 rounds were fired from the assault weapon through the stained glass windows. So if you went up to 25, it would've stopped that immediate purchase, and probably saved the lives of these kids. But if you go to 21 that is the same age, that already applies to purchasing handguns from federally licensed dealers.

(01:35:40)
So I prefer another approach, but I was hoping that our Republican colleagues would at least look at that given Uvalde, Buffalo, and some of these other mass shootings. Trying to be practical hill, but thinking that it could make a major difference. Strengthening background checks, could you also look at that. And then banning ghost guns and bump stocks. What do you think of that?

Kash Patel (01:36:04):

So Senator, you're talking to my heart here on one of the core missions at the FBI, which is our CJIS facility in Winchester, Virginia, which is our hub for our NICS checks, our NCICs, our capabilities on when we have, I think it's 19,000 state and local community law enforcement come to us for these background checks. We're trying to make that processing as fast as we can so we can get them real-time information. I think we have a 93% clearance rate in 15 minutes as it relates to ghost guns, but we can do better.

Klobuchar (01:36:39):

All right, well, just if you could get back to me on all those-

Kash Patel (01:36:41):

I will.

Klobuchar (01:36:42):

… and talk to the White House. Threats against elected officials have increased exponentially. Members of Congress received more than 9,000 threats last year up from 1,600 in 2016. There's been a lot of talk about other rhetoric and the like. And if we want to move forward on things like section 230, or even look if we can do anything on guns, I do think we're going to have to be honest about this all-purpose hater issue. And it has bothered me this thing, we're going to go after this group, we're going to have to go after this group. I just want to, for the record, show that the murderer of Speaker Hortman and her husband, he was Democratic lawmakers on his list. He went to the ones whose addresses he had, by the way. Planned Parenthood was on the list as were businesses and law firms, doctors. I already mentioned the ones with the Catholic church shooting.

(01:37:48)
So it is not just as the radicals on the left, what's a quote from the president, or the problems, or destructive movement of left-wing extremism that Vice President Vance said. According to the Anti-Defamation League last year, all the murders were committed. And I'm not actually going to say this because I don't even want to go left-right with this, but you can imagine it wasn't from the left. Cato Institute conservative think tank published a study just last week that found from terrorists from the right, were responsible for six times more deaths than people from the left. I actually don't want to go tit for tat on this, but what I am asking for is that this rhetoric of blaming one side or the other stop, if you could convey that to the president. And that we actually work on things that are solutions. So could you commit to me, Mr. Patel, Director Patel, that you will do that?

Kash Patel (01:38:45):

Absolutely, Senator.

Klobuchar (01:38:47):

Okay. Thank you. Last, you were asked about social media, and I will put some more questions on the record about that. I think we could make major movement on that. The local FBI helped when the city of St. Paul was a victim of a cyber attack. And I'm concerned about some of the cyber attack cuts, I'll ask you that on the record. AI, I'm glad you raised that. I think we have to do more, but also including election interference because they're using AI videos. I just had one happen in this very Committee on me, and I just think they're going to start using it in democracy election. They could be foreign. Do you think some of this is foreign entities, Mr. Patel?

Kash Patel (01:39:31):

Generally speaking, we have traced a lot of this to loose groups overseas that don't have any sort of central cluster.

Klobuchar (01:39:38):

There's going to be a lot on you then. And then last, I'll put on record just my concern about protecting journalists. The new guidance that came out of the department, ave you deployed any FBI resources to investigate members of the media for activities related to news-gathering, reporting, or reporting on government whistleblowers, something near and dear to the chairman's heart?

Kash Patel (01:40:01):

The only time we would involve an investigation of a journalist if they've conducted or committed an allegation of separate criminal activity, most prominently leaks of classified information.

Klobuchar (01:40:13):

Thank you.

Chuck Grassley (01:40:13):

Senator Hawley.

Mr. Hawley (01:40:17):

Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. Director Patel, good to see you. Thank you for being here, you're leading the FBI at a very critical time for that agency, and also a critical time for our country. And I want to start by talking to you about the tide of violence that we have seen, ideological violence against people of faith, particularly Christians. You just think here, take a rough catalog, just in the last couple of years we've seen some [inaudible 01:40:42] at the Covenant School, Christian School in Nashville, we've seen school shooting at the Annunciation School, we've seen church shootings multiply, we've seen acts of crime and violence, vandalism, arson against churches and parishes all across the country. And then of course last week, Charlie Kirk who said, "I want to be remembered for my courage, for my faith," was shot on a college campus.

(01:41:04)
Let me just start with the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Is the FBI, and I appreciate the tremendous work the FBI has done in this investigation. Is the FBI investigating the Kirk assassination as part of this broader pattern of anti-religious, anti-Christian violence?

Kash Patel (01:41:19):

We are investigating Charlie's assassination fully and completely, and running out every lead related to any allegation of broader violence. And we're producing results on that that we'll disclose when appropriate.

Mr. Hawley (01:41:34):

Good, I'm glad to hear that. Let me just ask you a few questions about that if I could.

Kash Patel (01:41:38):

Sure.

Mr. Hawley (01:41:38):

Reports have suggested that the FBI is investigating a broader network of groups that may have had some knowledge of the shooter's plans. Can you give us any details on that? Following up what you've already said in public, how's the FBI working to find other potential accomplices, folks who may have known about the shooter's plans, folks who may have encouraged him? Any update on any of that?

Kash Patel (01:41:59):

So in terms of what we do for an interrogation perspective, we go and reach out to the family and community immediately, and we've conducted those investigations and interrogations with local law enforcement. And we're continuing to do that because those closest to the suspect are going to hopefully know the most about the suspect, and his beliefs and his ideology. On top of that, unfortunately, it has been leaked that there was a Discord chat, and for those unfamiliar with it, it's a gaming chat room online that the suspect participated in. So what we're doing, we've already done is legal process, not just on Discord so that the information we gathered is sustained and held in a evidentiary posture that we could use in prosecution should it be decided to do so. And we're also going to be investigating anyone and everyone involved in that Discord chat.

Mr. Hawley (01:42:51):

Okay, very good. I see the public reports that the Discord thread had as many as 20 additional users. It sounds like you're trying to run down all of that to see if that's accurate. Who else may have been on that thread, what they may have known? Is that fair to say?

Kash Patel (01:43:05):

It's a lot more than that, and we're running them all down.

Mr. Hawley (01:43:06):

It's a lot more than 20?

Kash Patel (01:43:08):

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hawley (01:43:09):

And you're running all of that to ground, you said?

Kash Patel (01:43:10):

Every single one.

Mr. Hawley (01:43:11):

Yeah. Fantastic. Let me just turn to the broader question here of anti-religious, anti-Christian violence. And let me just give you a few stats that I'm sure that you're all too familiar with, every person of faith in America certainly is. Major report this past year found that there have been over 400 instances of hostility against churches in the United States in the year 2024. Those included arsons, bomb threats, shootings, and firearm incidents. Another organizational report found that there were 500 attacks on Catholic parishes alone, so that number 415, that's all Christian churches in 2024. Another organization found 500 separate attacks on just Catholic Parishes since May of 2020. Of course, we have the Covenant School shooting, the Annunciation School shooting in Minnesota where two children were shot dead as they were praying in a pew. Here's my question. What is the FBI doing to take on this rising tide of violence that seems to be motivated by anti-religious hatred?

Kash Patel (01:44:15):

Specifically, sir, we have 60 anti-Catholic hate crime incidences reported to us that are being investigated. Publicly, I can tell you we have five hate crime investigations with anti-Catholic bias ongoing currently in the states, excuse me, in the cities of Kansas City, Louisville, Houston, Nashville, and Richmond. That's what I can say publicly. But any ideologically-based attack against any faith, as a man of faith myself will, not be tolerated. And the full resource of the FBI are committed to all of it.

Mr. Hawley (01:44:47):

Are you investigating any domestic cells that instigate, or encourage, or fund, or in any way support attacks on churches or other houses of worship?

Kash Patel (01:44:59):

Senator, you raise

Kash Patel (01:45:00):

An incredibly important point that most people don't look at. I've always said we follow the money and whether it's terrorism or attacks based on ideology or attacks on institutions of faith or people of faith, someone's paying for it and we are reverse tracing those steps. We are not stopping at the perpetrator themselves. We are reverse engineering to hold those accountable in our investigations to who funded them and knowingly funded them and we will bring the appropriate steps against them with our partners at DOJ.

Mr. Hawley (01:45:28):

Good, I'm glad to hear that. We look forward to hearing reports on that progress. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:45:32):

I'd like to, I had some [inaudible 01:45:35].

Kash Patel (01:45:37):

Sorry about that.

Mr. Hawley (01:45:42):

Let me just ask you this in the same vein, Director. Since the Dobbs decision, the FBI has advertised $25,000 rewards for information on attacks on abortion clinics. Will the FBI similarly offer rewards for information on attacks of houses of worship?

Kash Patel (01:45:59):

Yes. When it is appropriate, the rewards are, any reward, whether it's an attack on a house of faith or on a homicide or whatever is determined by a group within the FBI, but we will work with them to make sure that rewards of monetary value are put out for all ideologically based attacks.

Mr. Hawley (01:46:19):

Good. You just rattled off some statistics, which I was glad to hear about the number of investigations you have opened, the incidents you're tracking against Christians, against houses of worship. Let me just ask you if you consider designating a senior official as a liaison to houses of worship, to Christian, other religious organizations to publish metrics on investigations and arrests related to church attacks, church threats, vandalism, arson, etc. Will you set up a system for liaising and then reporting so that everybody can see, this committee and the public can see just how many attacks we're talking about, just with the level of threat and violence is and what the FBI is doing to combat it?

Kash Patel (01:46:59):

Senator, you're speaking my language. The private-public sector partnership on this specific issue, just like the other ones we've talked about, is as equally transformative to finding those involved in these criminal activities and with your assistance and I would ask you if you're able to identify someone who's an expert in that area, we will work with them. We will take their information because as great as the FBI is, we're only as good as the information we can get and we don't have the reach that the private sector does in some of these areas.

Mr. Hawley (01:47:23):

Very good. Happy to help on that. Let me ask you about something specific to the FBI because sadly, as you know, the FBI when it comes to anti-religious animus has been part of the problem before you got to this agency. And I know that you remember the infamous memo generated by the FBI that attempted to recruit informants in houses of worship in particular in Catholic parishes. Your predecessor testified when this information, I just want to reiterate, this memo became public because of a whistleblower. It was not turned over to this committee. It was not disclosed to this committee. In fact, we were told it didn't exist and then a whistleblower published it, showing that indeed the FBI had recruited informants, attempted to, into Catholic parishes. Your predecessor then testified sitting right where you are today. He testified that this, I'm going to quote, "Was a single product by a single field office."

(01:48:15)
That was a lie because we then had additional whistleblowers come forward and say, no, actually multiple field offices contributed to the drafting of the report and indeed there was a second anti-Catholic memo that the FBI generated and indeed those memos were distributed to over 1000 FBI agents across the country. You know all of this, you and I talked about it when you were here for your confirmation hearing back in January. I just want to follow up and see, have you been able to determine how this memo got written and distributed? How is it that the Federal Bureau of Investigation came to be recruiting informants in Christian churches in this country?

Kash Patel (01:48:56):

Senator, we did dig in and we are doing our investigation simultaneously with Congress and just to put it in perspective, we've provided 700 documents on the Richmond Catholic memo specifically to this committee. Whereas my predecessor provided 19 pages and not only that, but we looked into how the source recruitment structure at the FBI was conducted during this time and we made adjustments and permanent fixes to ensure that sources are not put into houses of worship unless there is an actual ongoing criminal or international terrorism threat. We will not use sources at this FBI to investigate and cull information just for the sake of culling information in houses of worship.

Mr. Hawley (01:49:37):

Has anybody been fired for this?

Kash Patel (01:49:40):

There have been terminations related to this and resignations.

Mr. Hawley (01:49:45):

Good. There need to be because if this is going to be standard at the FBI, nobody can trust the FBI. You want to talk about violating the First Amendment? This has got First Amendment violation written all over it. It's one of the most revolting chapters in the FBI's history and considering what we're seeing more broadly in terms of the acts of violence against people of faith, this has absolutely got to end and the FBI has to lead the way.

(01:50:08)
So I count on you to do that, Director. Let me just in the minute or so that I have remaining, let me just shift gears and ask you about something else you said earlier. You said, "That protecting our youth is maybe the FBI's top priority." It's great to hear. Let me ask you about the role of AI chatbots in that, which you've talked about a little bit already today. Are you investigating any cases of AI-generated child sex abuse material? You issued a PSA earlier this year warning that synthetic child sex abuse material, that's where the AI generates it using maybe a real kid's image but then generates sex material, sex abuse material. You warned that that was illegal under federal law. Is the FBI investigating any instances of this synthetic CSAM material generated by AI that you can speak to?

Kash Patel (01:50:53):

We are investigating dozens of those matters because let me just say this. As far as the FBI is concerned, generative AI that produces CSAM, child sexual abuse material under our investigative authorities is treated as equally as if it were actual child sexual abuse material. There's no difference for me and the FBI on this.

Mr. Hawley (01:51:12):

Let me just ask you one other thing in this vein. I'm sure you've seen the reporting, that Meta's AI rules, their own internal guidelines allowed their chatbots to have sensual, that's their word, sensual conversations with children. We've had instances, multiple instances of children, minors taking their own lives at the behest of chatbots that instructed them with specificity on how to do it. What's the FBI's role here in investigating what is going on with these chatbots, with these AI companies encouraging, I mean, listen, if an actual person did that, we would say that's grooming. We would say that's child abuse. These companies are doing it. Their own guidelines allow it. What can we do about that?

Kash Patel (01:51:56):

You're referring to NVE, nihilistic violent extremism and the 764. It has been made a priority to the FBI because they are targeting children and these chatbots and these generative AI are getting coupled with actual humans who are using them and releasing them because they can do the work faster and quicker than humans can and get into spaces like social media where humans have a difficulty in engaging and what we're doing is treating any extension of generative AI as the criminal themselves and we have I think, I've got to get the number back to you, but over 1000 investigations related to NVE. We've had numerous takedowns and arrests of 764 individuals and we are educating, this may be the most important part, I'm directly engaging with the social media and media companies, the internet service providers to find a way to shut down. There's nothing I can do at the FBI to force them to shut it down, but work with you and Congress to find a way to work with our partners to get that shut down permanently.

Mr. Hawley (01:52:51):

Thank you.

Chairman Grassley (01:52:51):

Senator Coons.

Senator Coons (01:52:53):

Thank you, Chairman Grassley. Thank you, Chairman for calling this hearing. I'm grateful we're continuing this committee's a long tradition of oversight and in particularly today oversight of the FBI. Director Patel, thank you for being here. There's a number of issues I hope that we can speak to. I want to start by reading something you said to me during your confirmation hearing under oath. "I have no interest, no desire and will not if confirmed go backwards. There will be no politicization at the FBI." Then you look me in the eyes and said, "There will be no retribution actions taken by the FBI should I be confirmed as director. I told you that in your office. I tell you that again today." I'm concerned that that's not what's happened, that since you took over as director, you've cleaned house or forced out senior leaders across the Bureau in particular targeting those that worked on investigations of President Trump. The former acting director has just sued you for firing him for political reasons.

(01:53:53)
So did a leader in the field office. And the well-respected leader of the Salt Lake City office was pushed out last month, leaving that office short-handed at a particularly difficult time. I'm worried that these actions compromise the Bureau's ability to keep Americans safe. Hundreds of agents have resigned. You are lowering application standards to fill vacancies. You've reassigned large numbers of agents to work on immigration and street crime, issues other law enforcement agencies can handle, perhaps more effectively with the FBI. But I'm concerned that this compromises the Bureau's ability to address national security risks, uniquely its capability. In fact, you've shut down the Office of Integrity and Compliance, which makes sure that agents act in a lawful and ethical way and reassign staff away from domestic terrorism investigations exactly at a moment, I think we are all concerned about it. I also have to ask you came before the Appropriations Committee in May and told us you wanted a half-a-billion-dollar budget cut for the FBI, literally an effort to defund the police.

(01:55:01)
I am grateful for the work of the men and women of the FBI. They've done great work this year in Delaware partnering with the Dover Police Department to support human trafficking victims, partnering with the Middletown Police Department on armed robbery and carjacking. And it's urgent. I think that we fix the direction and the prioritization within the FBI. And I wish we could focus on those efforts today, but I'm seeing an FBI leadership more focused on social media clout and on political revenge than on fighting crime. Director, have you ever ordered that an FBI employee be terminated because he or she worked on an investigation into President Trump?

Kash Patel (01:55:45):

Senator, thank you. One quick correction for the record. There's 280 NVE investigations. I gave the incorrect number to Senator Hawley. Thank you.

Senator Coons (01:55:52):

Understood.

Kash Patel (01:55:53):

As far as a lot of your statement, I disagree with it and I'm happy to address it, but the only way generally speaking, an individual is terminated at the FBI is if they have violated their oath of office, violated the law, or failed to uphold the standards that we need them to have at the FBI.

Senator Coons (01:56:10):

So those who say that they've been fired because of working on investigations into President Trump are lying or misrepresenting?

Kash Patel (01:56:20):

Well, those matters are alleged in litigation, which is ongoing, so I can't comment on those specifically.

Senator Coons (01:56:25):

Could you comment on why you fired former acting FBI Director Driscoll?

Kash Patel (01:56:29):

I can't because it's ongoing litigation.

Senator Coons (01:56:31):

Could you say now definitively under oath that the rank and file agents who were assigned to work January 6th cases will not be terminated because that's what they were assigned to do?

Kash Patel (01:56:42):

I've said it before and I've said again, your case assignment as I was given case assignments when I was a young prosecutor does not dictate your career or your termination.

Senator Coons (01:56:50):

Thank you. Then let me go to the appropriations question. In May, you testified before the subcommittee on which I serve defending the president's request that we slash the FBI's budget by about $500 million. The day before you testified the opposite in front of the House. Where are we in terms of the budget request? Senator Graham earlier said, "If you're requesting more funding for more agents, let us know." We're nearing the end of the fiscal year. In front of the committee on which I serve here in the Senate, your request was for a reduction of hundreds of millions of dollars. Where are we?

Kash Patel (01:57:23):

Where we are in the budget cycle is we at the FBI are in support of the president's budget and we are in support of eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse. We've already identified tens of millions of dollars of duplicative contracts that the FBI was spending on software and private sector engagements. We've also identified duplicative workloads, so we are transitioning those folks out of doing the same thing twice over and into the field and that's my focus right now and the move of the FBI headquarters is also going to save the FBI three and a half billion dollars and the American taxpayers. So we're focused on eliminating waste, fraud, abuse. And as I told Senator Graham, I'll go back and talk to my team and if we need more, we'll let you know.

Senator Coons (01:58:02):

Are you planning any additional reductions in force, Director?

Kash Patel (01:58:06):

No.

Senator Coons (01:58:08):

How many vacancies are you currently trying to fill within the agency?

Kash Patel (01:58:12):

In terms of the 1811 ranks, there's a few hundred open vacancies that we have funded, and so we're filling all of those with our hybrid 1811 program and our new recruitment program and I think a lesser amount of IAs and SOS.

Senator Coons (01:58:24):

So if hundreds of agents have retired or taken the fork in the road offer and you have vacancies but you're requesting 500 million less, how does having fewer FBI agents help you tackle violent crime and address our national security issues-

Kash Patel (01:58:41):

Just to put it in perspective, Senator.

Senator Coons (01:58:42):

Cybersecurity issues.

Kash Patel (01:58:43):

Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. If we had this 500 million, we've done the math, it would take us 14 years to onboard every vacancy that's on the books currently at the FBI because we can't hire these folks and train them overnight. It's a years long process, so we are currently focused on recruiting the best and filling the positions to the best of our needs and we, even if we had this extra money, wouldn't be able to hire them overnight. We're looking for where the need is greatest, where in the country we need to send them and how we can change the training requirements, which is why I'm thrilled to have police officers. They might not have a college degree, but they got the street smarts and the cop smarts to become FBI agents and that's what we want.

Senator Coons (01:59:21):

Let me turn to Section 702.

Kash Patel (01:59:22):

Yes, sir.

Senator Coons (01:59:23):

When you testified in front of the CJS subcommittee, we talked about this issue, you told me you were in favor of reauthorizing FISA section of 702 when it expires next year.

Kash Patel (01:59:33):

Right.

Senator Coons (01:59:33):

So long as the reforms implemented last year, reforms like better training for agents and real consequences for inappropriate searches of Americans communications were maintained. You also said that you had some ideas about how to make Section 702 better going forward. Can you give me an update on the FBI's implementation of these reforms and the direction you think it should go?

Kash Patel (01:59:57):

Absolutely. I think you're referring to the query process and if you're not, let me know, but any instance of abuse or mistakes that were made in the query process have now been changed. It used to be you can make multiple mistakes and continue to access the query database system. I've changed that. If you make a mistake, you're immediately sidelined. A review is conducted and if it was an actual mistake, i.e. there should have been S on the end of that name and there wasn't, then we put you back in. But we have to review those matters. So that's happening and if there was an intentional mistake, you have no more access to the 702 query system and its database. So we've also done an audit of the entire 702 system and the query databases, and now we are nearly 100% of the audit and I think we found one or two, I'll have to get back to you, quote-unquote mistakes within that system which are currently being reviewed.

Senator Coons (02:00:48):

Thank you. You had told me in May that you'd send me updated statistics about the Section 702 searches of American's data. I haven't received it. When will I get that?

Kash Patel (02:00:57):

I'll work with my team to get that to you, Senator.

Senator Coons (02:01:00):

And frankly in May when you were testifying that you were implementing these reforms, you were also closing down the Office of Internal Auditing at the FBI. Now that was the office created in the first Trump administration to improve the Bureau's compliance with Section 702. How is that working out? How can you continue to advocate for robust civil liberty protections but shut down the office that was created to enforce those safeguards? Help me understand this.

Kash Patel (02:01:30):

Absolutely, Senator. This is a great example of sort of duplicative work. Both, there was two divisions in the FBI working on this, and all we did was the inspection division, which is the leader in this query system and this audit system has now been given the single source mandate to conduct these. So the OIA, its elimination is just taking folks who were working there and were experts in it and folded in under the inspection division and then taking other folks that we didn't need because we had enough manpower and pushing them elsewhere in the FBI.

Senator Coons (02:01:59):

I'm concerned about the rise in threats against members of our judiciary. What are you doing with the US Marshal service to help protect our federal judges and with state and local judicial systems to help provide some of the expertise of the FBI in protecting them as well?

Kash Patel (02:02:13):

I share your concern, Senator. We have 35 open investigations, 17 against federal judges and the remainder against state court judges and threats that they have received. And as you know federally, there's a specific statute which prohibits that, so we are working up those cases and referring them to prosecution where we can meet the threshold for evidence.

Senator Coons (02:02:34):

In your written testimony, you referenced how Counter-UAS legislation expires and we need to resolve the conflict in jurisdiction and authority. I agree. This is an urgent concern. I have heard from state and local law enforcement about it from the folks responsible for major events, whether it's sports or concerts or public events. Given the tragic increase in political violence, I'm very concerned about the misuse of drones and the potential of there being a catastrophic event. What could we do to address this challenge?

Kash Patel (02:03:08):

Well, obviously reauthorizing the capabilities that we have under the Counter-UAS program, but just to highlight what the FBI is specifically doing, we've been given the mandate to work with DHS to secure not just the Club World Cup that we had by the way, which occurred in 32 matches across the country without any significant interest, excuse me, significant incident which we're proud of and we're taking that model for the next World Cup and also the Olympics. But the reason I bring that up is because we pushed out our Counter-UAS programs to address the security needs and that's where our focus is, on events like that.

Chairman Grassley (02:03:42):

Senator Kennedy.

Senator Coons (02:03:43):

Mr. Director, thank you for your testimony. I look forward to working on actually solving criminal problems and reducing the extent to which what we're going back and forth about as more political and partisan point-scoring and more actually solving crimes for the American people.

Kash Patel (02:03:58):

Yes, sir.

Chairman Grassley (02:03:58):

Senator Kennedy.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:04:04):

Mr. Director, you and the FBI working with state and local law enforcement officials in Utah have caught the assassin of Mr. Charlie Kirk, is that right?

Kash Patel (02:04:28):

We have a suspect, yes, sir.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:04:30):

And you did that within 48 hours. Did you not?

Kash Patel (02:04:33):

33 hours.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:04:33):

33 hours. Congratulations. We've had other political assassinations. Back in June an assassin assassinated Representative Melissa Hoffman, Mr. Hoffman, Senator John Hoffman and Mrs. Hoffman in Minnesota. You and the FBI and Minnesota state and local law enforcement officials caught the assassin within 48 hours. Did you not?

Kash Patel (02:05:12):

I believe that timeline's correct, Senator.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:05:14):

Congratulations. Sometimes we miss the forest for the trees. Good work. Did Mr. Kirk's assassin act alone?

Kash Patel (02:05:34):

As I've said since the beginning, Senator, it is very much an ongoing investigation and I can't speak to the state charges. That's for the state to address on their own, but we are providing them with the same investigatory findings reporting to the department, and as I noted to Senator, I believe it was Cornyn or Hawley, that there are a number of individuals that are currently being investigated and interrogated and a number yet to be investigated and interrogated specific to that chat room. So we are very much in our ongoing posture of investigation.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:06:05):

So others could have been involved?

Kash Patel (02:06:08):

Yes, sir.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:06:09):

Okay. I asked you this last time you were here. Kash, you remember Mr. Peter Strzok and Ms. Lisa Page?

Kash Patel (02:06:22):

Yes, sir.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:06:24):

They were, Mr. Strzok was an FBI agent, Ms. Page was an FBI lawyer. They were both very aggressive anti-Trump political activists who allowed their political opinions to affect their work at the FBI. Is that a fair statement?

Kash Patel (02:06:43):

I believe their text messages and their testimony that was secured by the OIG and DOJ speaks for themselves.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:06:48):

In fact, Mr. Strzok and Ms. Page were having an extramarital affair and at one point, Ms. Page texted Mr. Strzok, " Trump's not ever going to be president. Right, right." Mr. Struck replied, "No, no, he won't. We will stop it." Ms. Page resigned from the FBI, Mr. Strzok was fired. They promptly sued the federal government and the FBI and Justice Department for releasing their emails, which revealed all of this. The FBI settled that lawsuit for $1.2 million. Gave Mr. Strzok $1.2 million cash, gave Ms. Page who resigned, she wasn't fired. She resigned. She quit. Gave her $800,000. Who at the FBI made that decision to give them money?

Kash Patel (02:07:55):

That settlement was reached in the Biden administration when my predecessor was the director.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:08:00):

Who? Are you saying that Chris Wray did?

Kash Patel (02:08:04):

The only people that can decide that settlement are the Attorney General in conjunction with the director and the administration.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:08:11):

Okay. So you're telling me that Attorney General Garland and Director Wray decided to give them the money. Is that right?

Kash Patel (02:08:18):

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:08:20):

Okay. Now, when you took over the FBI, did you find instances of where under the Biden administration, the FBI had weaponized the agency to push the political beliefs of President Biden?

Kash Patel (02:08:46):

Sorry, the last part.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:08:47):

When you took over the FBI, did you find instances of where the Biden administration had politicized the FBI to prosecute his political agenda?

Kash Patel (02:09:01):

Well, I won't speak for other people. Having been a target of that weaponization, having been a staffer on the House Intelligence Committee, having had the Justice Department weaponized against me for making the findings and leading the investigation of Russiagate, I know what that feels like and that's why as the FBI director, I'm committing to not ever have that ever happen again, but I'm also committed to fully investigating what was done. And that matter is still ongoing.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:09:26):

So I assume, I take it your answer is yes.

Kash Patel (02:09:29):

Yes, sir.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:09:30):

And you're firing those people, is that right?

Kash Patel (02:09:32):

Anyone that politicizes their job at the FBI will not work at the FBI.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:09:38):

Okay. You've heard some of my colleagues, either implicitly or otherwise, suggest that you have politicized the FBI to prosecute the political beliefs of President Trump. Is that true?

Kash Patel (02:09:55):

I don't know how that can be true when the stats that I cited to include the 23,000 arrests, 6,000 weapons seized, 1600 gang and criminal enterprise organizations, 4,700 children found and rescued, more than enough fentanyl seized to kill a third of America. The men and women of the FBI are now in an apolitical mission, and this is why the numbers are historic in seven months.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:10:18):

Have you fired people because they voted for Vice President Harris?

Kash Patel (02:10:23):

I don't ask people who they vote for and neither does the FBI.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:10:26):

Okay. But you've given people polygraphs, have you not?

Kash Patel (02:10:29):

Many people in the FBI take polys.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:10:31):

The FBI does that all the time?

Kash Patel (02:10:33):

Yes, sir.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:10:33):

Does it not?

Kash Patel (02:10:34):

Yes, sir.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:10:34):

For a long time, is that correct?

Kash Patel (02:10:36):

Decades.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:10:37):

All right. I want to ask you about the Epstein files. Have you seen the Epstein files?

Kash Patel (02:10:46):

I have not reviewed the entirety of it myself, but a good amount.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:10:51):

Okay. Would it be fair to say that Mr. Epstein trafficked young women including in some instances minors for sex to himself?

Kash Patel (02:11:10):

That was specifically the allegations in the 2018 indictment in the Southern District of New York.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:11:16):

Okay. Who else did he traffic these young women to?

Kash Patel (02:11:21):

In terms of what the investigation, again, going back to 2008, Mr. Acosta who limited the investigation and limited the search warrants and limited the parameters of the investigation, the only thing we are able to speak to publicly because he was given a non-prosecution agreement by Mr. Acosta is that first time period from, I believe, don't quote me on this, 97 to 2001-ish. And then when the Trump administration courageously reopened it-

Mr. Whitehouse (02:11:48):

And excuse me for interrupting, but I'm going to run out of time. You've seen most of the files. Who, if anyone did Epstein traffic these young women to besides himself?

Kash Patel (02:12:02):

Himself. There is no credible information. None. If there were, I would bring the case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals and the information we have again is limited.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:12:13):

So the answer is no one?

Kash Patel (02:12:16):

For the information that we have-

Mr. Whitehouse (02:12:18):

In the files?

Kash Patel (02:12:19):

In the case file.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:12:20):

Okay. Now, President Trump has deferred to the FBI and the Department of Justice with respect to the Epstein records. He says it is your call about releasing them. And I understand that the department and the agency have decided to release them in cooperation with the House Committee. Is that correct?

Kash Patel (02:12:44):

Yes, sir.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:12:46):

So you're releasing them a little bit at a time, is that correct?

Kash Patel (02:12:50):

We're releasing as much as we can, but we are limited by three different court orders and the department went back to each of those judges to waive those court orders or have them lifted and each of those judges declined.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:13:04):

Will you release all of them or at least as many as you can?

Kash Patel (02:13:08):

We will release everything we are legally permitted to do so. We are continuing to work with the House on the subpoena request. We have substantially complied with it, but we will continue to release whatever we are legally permitted to do so.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:13:22):

Okay. I strongly encourage you to do that Kash. This issue's not going to go away, and I think that the essential question for the American people is this. They know that Epstein trafficked young women for sex to himself. They want to know who, if anyone else he trafficked these young women to, and that's a very fair question. I want to know that answer and I think you're going to have to do more to satisfy the American people's understandable curiosity in that regard.

Kash Patel (02:14:05):

Mr. Chairman, may I just respond to that? I agree, Senator. And what we have done, and just to remind folks, the Epstein case files existed in the two prior administrations, in the Obama administration and the Biden administration, and they didn't release anything. And there was President Trump in the first administration that renewed charges against Mr. Epstein. And I know it's a little complicated to understand, but what exists in the Epstein case files was a direct result of the limited search warrants from 2006 and seven, which hamstrung future investigations because of the non prosecution agreement and multiple administrations had the opportunity to look at the entirety of that case file and recommend prosecutions against anyone that was trafficked under Mr. Epstein, and anyone that participated in that trafficking. And the only person to bring charges was the prior administration against Mr. Epstein.

(02:15:04)
Now, I am not saying that others were not trafficked and others were not involved. What I am telling you is that based on the information we have, and we have continuously and publicly asked for the public to come forward with more information. If there is, we'll look at it. But based on credible information, we have released all credible information. And the information that the Department of Justice and the FBI never releases is information on investigations that are not credible. And we don't release the names of victims who weren't credible, but in the same time, we don't release the names of victims who were credible. And so that's by law.

(02:15:39)
And so the information we are releasing now is historic and it is also to the maximum capacity that the law allows. And I know that's not going to satisfy many, many, many people, but if they wanted it done right, then the investigation from its origination should have been done right, and he should not have been given a get out of jail free card to do jail on the weekends for 12 hours a day. And he should have been investigated fully for the entirety of his crime and criminal enterprise, not just from 1997 to 2001.

Chairman Grassley (02:16:09):

Senator Blumenthal.

Mr. Whitehouse (02:16:12):

Thank you, Mr. Patel.

Senator Blumenthal (02:16:14):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Director Patel, thank you for being here today. You'll recall well in January at your confirmation hearing before this committee, I raised the prospect of politically motivated retaliation, and you promised me, as you did other members of this committee, "Every FBI employee will be held to the absolute same standard and no one will be terminated for case assignments." You went on to tell me, "All FBI employees will be protected against political retribution." And you assured one of my colleagues that you would honor the internal review process of the FBI. I'm not going to mince words. You lied to us. In the short time that you've been FBI director, you've presided over a rash of retaliatory firing. Three FBI agents have recently sued you. They are FBI agents with 60 years between them of distinguished service rescuing hostages, saving kids from predators, dismantling drug cartels. And their allegations, their civil allegations are a searing indictment of your tenure as FBI director, but it's not just those three.

(02:17:45)
The FBI Agents Association has said that your actions, "Distract agents from their work, foster fear that their assignments could cost them their careers either now or under the next administration and increase the risk of criminal and national security threats by undermining unity and morale within the Bureau." This association, as you know, is voluntary. It represents 14,000 members, 90% of all the active agents. These are your employees saying that your performance has been unqualified and unfit. And there is mounting evidence that these retaliatory firings were the result of direction from the White House. There have been instances in the past here, history of the Bureau of political interference and political direction from the director's office, but not the kind of institutional interference that we're seeing from the White House right now. I'm going to ask you, has anyone from the White House contacted you about personnel decisions?

Kash Patel (02:19:12):

I completely disagree with your entire premise, that I have lied or are misleading the FBI. If I were, the results that I announced today by the men and women of the FBI and the historic records we are doing to keep this country safe would not be possible. The men and women of the FBI are responding to our leadership and this administration's priorities. The only way people get terminated at the FBI is if they fail to meet the muster of the job and their duties. And that is where I will leave it. And you accusing me of lying is something I don't take lightly, but I'm not going to get into a tit-for-tat with you.

Senator Blumenthal (02:19:43):

Well, let me just ask you to answer my question. Has anyone from the White House contacted you about personnel decisions?

Kash Patel (02:19:51):

Generally speaking, we always discuss with the White House OMB during the budget process, how many personnel we need, who we need where.

Senator Blumenthal (02:19:58):

Answer is yes.

Kash Patel (00:00):

Senator Blumenthal (02:20:00):

Yes, for budgetary purposes.

Kash Patel (02:20:02):

If you've been directed to fire people, agents, because they participated in investigations of the president.

(02:20:10)
I don't receive directions to do that.

Senator Blumenthal (02:20:11):

Has anyone suggested?

Kash Patel (02:20:11):

I make the decisions.

Senator Blumenthal (02:20:12):

Has anyone asked you to do it? The best information is yes, you've taken suggestions and directions from the White House in firing qualified agents.

Kash Patel (02:20:26):

Any termination at the FBI was a decision that I made based on the evidence that I have as the Director of the FBI and it's my job and I'm not going to shy away from it. And as you stated, those are allegations, and that is an ongoing litigation, so they'll have their day in court and so will we.

Senator Blumenthal (02:20:42):

The allegations are not just in that lawsuit, Director Patel, and I think your testimony confirms that in fact, you've taken direction from the White House-

Kash Patel (02:20:51):

I don't, it does not.

Senator Blumenthal (02:20:53):

… in those retaliatory firings.

Kash Patel (02:20:54):

It literally does not.

Senator Blumenthal (02:20:54):

Because you've acknowledged that in fact they have been in contact with you about personnel decisions.

Kash Patel (02:20:59):

The White House has been-

Senator Blumenthal (02:20:59):

Let me [inaudible 02:21:01]-

Kash Patel (02:21:01):

Do not put words in my mouth, we're on the record. The White House, like any administration, contacts its agencies on the budgeting process and where it needs personnel and where the mission priorities are, that always happens. If they didn't do that, they would be abdicating the responsibility to law enforcement. I will always work with my partners in the chain of command at the Department of Justice and the White House to ensure that this FBI is delivering. The results we are delivering to include the lowest murder rate in modern US history, to include the most fentanyl seizures in modern US history, to include the most live saved in the most children found in modern US history.

Senator Blumenthal (02:21:33):

Just ask you-

Kash Patel (02:21:34):

That is a working FBI, that is not a failing FBI.

Senator Blumenthal (02:21:37):

Let's move on to a related area in White House discussions. Have you been asked or directed by the White House or others to engage in a crackdown on political groups or organizations, non-profits, after the murder of Charlie Kirk?

Kash Patel (02:22:08):

To direct at political organizations? No. I've been asked by my chain of command to properly root out criminal activity wherever it is in whatever investigation we're conducting, and that's what we're doing.

Senator Blumenthal (02:22:23):

Have those distinctions about whom you're going to target been based on direction from the White House?

Kash Patel (02:22:29):

Nobody gives me a list on who to target. My targeting list is from the men and women at the FBI.

Senator Blumenthal (02:22:34):

Have you talked about investigating certain groups, non-profits, or foundations, or institutions?

Kash Patel (02:22:41):

Whatever those investigations are, they're ongoing, and I'm not going to get into those.

Senator Blumenthal (02:22:46):

Have you used polygraphs to determine loyalty of agents?

Kash Patel (02:22:52):

No.

Senator Blumenthal (02:22:53):

Have you committed that you will respect the First Amendment rights of agents?

Kash Patel (02:23:03):

I have wildly committed to respect the First Amendment rights of agents, but at the FBI you have to balance your First Amendment rights with your mission.

Senator Blumenthal (02:23:12):

Have you imposed any sort of loyalty test in the course of using polygraphs or in any of the other personnel decisions?

Kash Patel (02:23:21):

Polygraphs have been utilized at the FBI for decades, they will continue to be utilized in the fashion by the professionals that administer them.

Senator Blumenthal (02:23:29):

Have you asked under the polygraph test about individuals' loyalty or about the voting records or any kind of past statements?

Kash Patel (02:23:40):

Just to make it abundantly clear, I don't tell the professionals how to conduct polygraphs or what questions to ask. They make those decisions. And I, as the Director of the FBI, never ask anyone who they voted for.

Senator Blumenthal (02:23:54):

Have you investigated donors to a political party simply because they are donors?

Kash Patel (02:24:01):

Simply based on that fact alone? No.

Senator Blumenthal (02:24:03):

Have you investigated donors for another reason?

Kash Patel (02:24:07):

Many donors may be involved in criminal enterprises and criminal activities, and those individuals will be investigated.

Senator Blumenthal (02:24:15):

Can you commit to make public the Epstein files that so far have not been released, if this committee is able to review them on a classified basis?

Kash Patel (02:24:32):

I think this is an important distinction. The Epstein case file is not classified to my understanding. So, we are providing what we legally can and we are going to give Congress what we are legally permitted to do so to the maximum extent of the law.

Senator Blumenthal (02:24:49):

Will you enable the Chairman and the Ranking Member to review them on a classified basis?

Kash Patel (02:24:57):

That doesn't make any sense. If the material in the Epstein file is not classified, there is no basis for a classified review.

Senator Blumenthal (02:25:04):

But it would protect the confidentiality of them if they were able to review them on a classified basis.

Kash Patel (02:25:09):

If anyone in this room can get the multiple district court judges to lift their court protective orders and the ceilings, we will happily provide you with more information.

Senator Blumenthal (02:25:20):

Are you in favor of merging the DEA and the ATF?

Kash Patel (02:25:25):

That's not something for me to comment on.

Senator Blumenthal (02:25:28):

Well, those agencies work with you, don't they?

Kash Patel (02:25:30):

With me, not for me.

Senator Blumenthal (02:25:33):

Are you in favor of orienting the FBI toward a national police function, as opposed to the enforcement of federal law?

Kash Patel (02:25:44):

The FBI does enforce federal law across the country, that's what we do.

Senator Blumenthal (02:25:48):

But isn't it a fact that you have told the leadership of the FBI that you view it as moving toward a local and state police function?

Kash Patel (02:26:01):

No, we are prioritizing working with our local and state partners and they will tell you that that has never happened with this much engagement in the history that they have been serving as local law enforcement officers. I believe local cops are the best intelligence source and the best understanding of their communities, and I folded in my FBI agents under that direction to work with them to get the job done.

Senator Blumenthal (02:26:23):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chuck Grassley (02:26:24):

For the fourth time today, I want to remind people that my oversight has made clear that Director Ray's FBI was politicized. I've released a trove of records to prove it, not only today, but in past days. I've also said some FBI personnel who have been fired, retaliated against my whistleblowers, and I don't remember my Democratic colleagues defending my whistleblowers when their careers were ruined. Senator Schmidt.

Senator Eric Schmitt (02:27:05):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before I get into the thrust of my comments and questions, Director, I want to thank you. In our meetings prior to your confirmation, during your confirmation, we talked about your desire to get more agents out into the field out of Washington and take on violent crime, and you fulfilled that. St. Louis received the largest permanent per capita infusion of FBI agents anywhere in the country. And I know it's not only an isolated event, but we certainly appreciate your honoring your commitment to do that. And I know there's a lot of great opportunities ahead to take on violent crime, which you've highlighted many of the successes in your introductory comments.

(02:27:45)
It's obviously no secret that this hearing takes place in the wake of a horrific American tragedy, the assassination of Charlie Kirk. For those of us who knew him, I know you did too, is still difficult to put into words what a tragic loss that is not just for his family but for our country, for free speech, for a belief that we can have a free exchange of ideas, and he was quite literally shot in the throat in an attempt to silence him and take his life.

(02:28:18)
And so, you have this task now of this investigation, there's been an arrest, but I think that we face an even larger crisis that law enforcement alone can't tackle alone. It's a crisis that has culminated in the assassination of Charlie, but it doesn't end there and it's I think every bit present right now and the challenge is greater than quite frankly, I would've imagined. Seeing some of the comments that have taken place after the assassination and something that I think as a country we have to reckon with. And it's something deeper, much deeper than a rejection of law and order or the norms of civil society. We've entered a very dangerous time, I think, in our country, and that should be clear to everyone.

(02:29:12)
Political violence is a sign of a deep and corrosive sickness in any society, but in America today, the problem is just not political violence in the abstract, it is the specific kind of political violence which is overwhelmingly driven by a specific set of actors and groups. None of this emerged out of thin air. Over the past week, leaders from across the political spectrum have come out and forcefully condemned Charlie's murder and political violence more broadly. For that, we're all very grateful, we should be grateful. There have been calls to unite and come together in the wake of Charlie's murder, and I want to do that, I do. Someday, I pray that we can be united as a country again and go forward together as a one people and under one flag, but we are not united.

(02:30:11)
Upstream from the dehumanization and demonizing political violence and rhetoric tearing apart our country, is a divide on how we view America and Americans. Is America good? Is America evil? Is there something inherently special about Western civilization, or is this 2,000 year project rotten to the core? And if it is something worth fighting for, which I believe, how do we do it? With words and ideas like Charlie did, or with fire bombs and assassin's bullets? Political violence is always wrong, period, full stop. It doesn't matter which side in the name of any ideology or cause, it's wrong. But in America today, political violence is not a problem that falls equally upon both sides. We have to be honest about this. We must reject an attempt to paint it as some kind of random phenomenon with no particular creed or ideology, a kind of spontaneous insanity which takes place outside of any broader social context and has no pattern at all. That's wrong. So, free speech, yes. Political violence, no, but we have to be honest about what's happening.

(02:31:26)
Already, we're hearing people talk about Charlie's assassination in those terms. We're told that we can't possibly know what drove a killer to plan and carry out a murder the most prominent conservative activists in America, but that's a lie. We do know. The facts are plain and clear and we have to speak truth in this moment or there's no other side of the mountain. The vast majority of Americans are against political violence, but there is a vocal active minority that encourages and celebrates it and that minority is overwhelmingly on the left.

(02:32:03)
Just last week, a YouGov poll found that a quarter, a full 25% of those people who describe themselves as very liberal say it can be justified for citizens to use violence to achieve political goals. Less than 3% of very conservative Americans say the same. That's too many. That is 3% too many. But we are lying if we think that this is a both sides thing, it's not. We have to confront it and you're going to have an important job of rooting out these terrorists. This is an ideology that runs very deep. The numbers are virtually identical to the ones I just noted when it comes to whether or not it's okay to celebrate the deaths of people whom we disagree with. And while large majorities in both parties were opposed to celebrating political violence, Democrats overall were nearly twice as likely as Republicans to believe that it is usually or always acceptable to celebrate the death of a public figure they oppose. What in the hell is going on?

(02:33:14)
Earlier this year, a poll found that more than 55% of people on the left believed that it would be at least somewhat justified to murder Donald Trump. These are not just some abstractions on a page. These are our fellow citizens. How can we come together with people who believe these things?

(02:33:39)
We've all seen the flood of posts on social media over the past week, not just a fringe view, but thousands upon thousands of people gleefully celebrating a father of two young children getting gunned down in broad daylight. I wish I wouldn't have seen that video. I wish my kids would not have seen that video. Bluesky, the left wing alternative to X, was so overwhelmed with these posts that the platform was forced to issue a statement warning its users to stop glorifying the murder. And it wasn't just random social media trolls, it was journalists, elite college professors, and even politicians, all but saying Charlie's assassination was justified because of what he thought, because of what he said. We saw the flood of hit pieces, the most powerful media outlets in the nation, dishonestly attacking and villainizing Charlie for the most vicious possible terms. How can you ask us to unite under that? There can be no unity between good and evil. Somebody has to win this thing and as a country, we have to absolutely reject it, and don't tell me it's both sides. It didn't happen in a vacuum. Over the past decade, we've seen an explosion of political violence, not just one-off lone wolf attacks, but organized systemic political violence at a mass scale. It is not organic, it is the offspring of a dark and clandestine system funded in part with our own tax dollars, winning with a large network of foundations, NGOs, activist organizations, and front groups. This system lurks behind every radical leftist movement in our nation today. The George Soros empire has financed a vast ecosystem of radicals all working together, dropping off bricks at riots, to unleash a tidal wave of violently anarchists on our streets, and to prop it up, and an army of researchers and experts and journalists and propagandists who downplay the political violence.

Chuck Grassley (02:35:51):

What he's doing is serious.

Senator Eric Schmitt (02:35:53):

I'm going to ask you because I don't have a ton of time.

Chuck Grassley (02:35:55):

The opposite of what [inaudible 02:35:57].

Senator Eric Schmitt (02:36:01):

And I would point out, we've heard years, years of the left, their loudest voices calling anyone on the right extremists, extremist MAGA Republicans, fascists, Nazis, an existential threat to democracy. Check yourself and don't give me this both sides bullshit.

(02:36:20)
Mr. Director, I want to ask you. Tell me if each one of the following perpetrators or alleged perpetrators were acting from a left wing or right wing political violence. The man who tried to kill Republican Congressmen at the congressional baseball practice, nearly killing House Majority Leader Steve Scalise. Left wing or right wing violence?

Kash Patel (02:36:43):

Sir, I believe it was a left wing ideology.

Senator Eric Schmitt (02:36:46):

Okay. Burn down cities during the summer of love in the George Floyd riots. Left wing violence or right wing violence?

Kash Patel (02:36:52):

Sir, I'll rely on you on these. I don't have off the top of my head, I'm sorry.

Senator Eric Schmitt (02:36:56):

Okay, left wing. The Waukesha Christmas parade massacre, left wing or right wing violence? Left wing. The Lee Zeldin stabbing attempt, left wing or right wing? Left wing. The Covenant School shooting in Nashville, left wing or right wing? Left wing. The Butler, Pennsylvania assassination attempt on President Trump, left wing or right wing? Left wing. The Trump International West Palm Beach assassination attempt? Left wing. The Abundant Life Christian School shooting, left wing. The United Care CEO's murder, left wing. Teslas burned, keyed, damaged, firebombed. Left wing, left wing. The murders at the Israeli Embassy. Left wing. The ICE facilities firebombed, left wing. The Minnesota Catholic school shooting, left wing. The anti-white Charlotte, North Carolina stabbing, left wing. The attempted Utah news state firebombing, left wing. And now of course the culmination of this vile trend, a left wing assassination of Charlie Kirk. So don't give me this both sides. If we want to get to Unity, let's be honest, let's be honest. Free speech, yes. Political violence, no, but let's be honest.

Chuck Grassley (02:38:01):

Senator Hirono.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:38:03):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Director Patel, just like the rest of the federal government, there have been significant personnel changes at the FBI since President Trump took office. I want to better understand the scope of the turnover and the changes occurring at the FBI. Since January 20, 2025, how many FBI employees have retired, resigned, been fired, or otherwise separated from employment? I need a number.

Kash Patel (02:38:36):

We'll get you a number.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:38:37):

What is the number? You don't have it?

Kash Patel (02:38:39):

Not off the top of my head, and I want to get you the right number.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:38:42):

Would it surprise you to know that it's in probably in the thousands, like 5,000?

Kash Patel (02:38:46):

I don't think that number's accurate.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:38:48):

No, you don't know. Next question. How many special agents or analysts have left or been fired from the FBI since January 20, 2025?

Kash Patel (02:38:58):

Say, we will get you the numbers. And anyone that retires is of their own volition, and anyone that has terminated at the FBI, as I've said before, is done so because they have failed to meet the standards and uphold their loyalty and oath to the Constitution.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:39:09):

Oh, yeah, so you say. Next question. How many executive assistant directors, assistant directors, or special agents in charge have left or been fired from the FBI since January 20th, 2025?

Kash Patel (02:39:23):

Again, people leaving on their own accord or terminations were done by the standard set at the FBI that have been carried out consistently.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:39:30):

With this question, I'm getting to the leadership of the FBI and you don't have that answer. Next question. Which field office, division, or directorate has lost the most personnel since January 20th, 2025? And do you have the answer to that question?

Kash Patel (02:39:49):

Yeah. Actually, every single field office in the country, including Hawaii, has received a plus up of FBI agents because we're pushing them out to the field.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:40:00):

Okay, so you're telling me that no field office division or directorate has lost any personnel since January 20th, 2025? That's your answer?

Kash Patel (02:40:11):

In Hawaii, there's been a plus up. In every single state that I'm looking at, we have allocated a plus up for field offices across the country so that the FBI can continue in the historic achievements it's done in these last seven months. When you're talking about firings, you're looking for a media hit and a fundraising clip, and I'm not going to give it to you.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:40:33):

It doesn't matter under what basis they left. I just want to know how many have left and I think your testimony is, nobody has left. Next question.

Kash Patel (02:40:42):

Nope, that's not my testimony. You asked it one time, I answered it one time. You didn't get the answer you wanted for your clips.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:40:47):

Next question.

Kash Patel (02:40:48):

You keep asking it, and I told you I'd get you the numbers, but you can keep asking it.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:40:54):

Which field office, division, or directorate has gained the most personnel since January 20th, 2025? You noted that there have been plus ups, so which offices have received these plus ups?

Kash Patel (02:41:06):

The greatest allocation that I believe was given to California and then Florida.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:41:16):

Where were those offices?

Kash Patel (02:41:18):

California and Florida.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:41:20):

Thank you. Director Patel, you often refer to FBI agents as cops. All of us, Democrats and Republicans support the police officers who keep our communities safe. But while our states, cities, counties, and towns all employ police officers to protect our communities, Congress has empowered and equipped the FBI to take on missions that local police cannot, especially taking on terrorists, hackers, and spies. I'd like to assess how well the FBI is able to handle its specialized missions under your leadership. The FBI is the nation's lead federal law enforcement agency for investigating and preventing acts of domestic and international terrorism, and yet the executive assistant directors in charge of the FBI's National Security and Intelligence branches were both forced out at the beginning of the year. Who replaced them in those positions?

Kash Patel (02:42:22):

Excellent qualified personnel to lead the mission of arresting 23,000 violent criminals this year alone. That's twice as many as before.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:42:31):

Do you know the names of the people who took the places of the-

Kash Patel (02:42:33):

I'm not going to give you any names so you can attack them.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:42:35):

Why not?

Kash Patel (02:42:36):

So you can attack them, I'm not doing that.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:42:38):

You're not going to give me the names of-

Kash Patel (02:42:39):

The people sitting in those seats are extremely qualified to handle the job. We would not have the results-

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:42:45):

You're not going to give me the names of personnel who should be on your… all right, fine, moving on.

Kash Patel (02:42:46):

We would not have the reduction of violence in the state of Hawaii if we did not allocate the resources we did.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:42:52):

Earlier this year, FBI counter terrorist special agents and investigators were reassigned to assist with immigration enforcement. Reportedly, these counterterrorism experts were returned to the jobs they trained for in late January after Iran threatened to retaliate for our strikes on their nuclear facilities. Have those experts remained in the jobs they trained for since that time, yes or no?

Kash Patel (02:43:19):

FBI agents' primary responsibility is exactly what they're assigned to do. We always work with our inter-agency [inaudible 02:43:26]-

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:43:26):

So, since they returned to their positions, are they still in those positions?

Kash Patel (02:43:27):

If you're not going to let me answer, why don't you just do your soliloquy in the four and a half minutes you have left?

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:43:31):

I am not asking for a soliloquy, it's just a yes or no. Are those people who are returned to their jobs still on those jobs? Yes or no?

Kash Patel (02:43:39):

They never left.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:43:41):

What was that?

Kash Patel (02:43:43):

They never left their primary job. It is a surge of resources in law enforcement working with the inter-agency to combat violent crime and reduce violent crime in historic proportions.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:43:52):

Okay, they were never reassigned to do immigration. That's your testimony. Okay. Director Patel, the FBI is also the lead federal agency for investigating cyber attacks and cyber intrusions, both by foreign nation states and by non-state hacker groups. Since President Trump's inauguration, the executive assistant director in charge of the criminal and cyber branch and the head of the FBI's Cyber Division have both left the FBI. What are the names of the people who replace them in those positions?

Kash Patel (02:44:28):

The cyber branch is one of the most impressive at the FBI, 409 arrests this year, 169 convictions, that's a 42% increase from the same time last year.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:44:38):

It's that branch, [inaudible 02:44:40].

Kash Patel (02:44:39):

So, any suggestion that the FBI cyber division is not operating at full capacity and better than ever before, the leadership at the branch is implementing these changes necessary to attack the cyber and ransomware infrastructure operators from around China and Russia.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:44:52):

You know why they're important? I want to know who has those positions since they, people who originally were there are no longer there.

Kash Patel (02:44:58):

Supremely qualified individuals have those positions.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:45:02):

Are they?

Kash Patel (02:45:02):

Supremely qualified individuals.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:45:04):

Who are they? What are the names?

Kash Patel (02:45:05):

You're not getting them.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:45:06):

You don't know. Special agents who investigate cyber crime were also reassigned for immigration enforcement. Have those expert investigators returned to their duties? Yes or no?

Kash Patel (02:45:21):

All agents remained on their primary duties while surging to allocate resources for inter-agency operations to the Homeland Security task forces across this country.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:45:30):

So, are you-

Kash Patel (02:45:33):

Am I what?

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:45:34):

See, I'm not getting the yes or no answers. I get all this explanation, so there you go.

Kash Patel (02:45:38):

No, you get the work that the men and women of the FBI are doing. You don't want that.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:45:41):

Are you planning any additional personnel cuts to the cyber division in the future?

Kash Patel (02:45:48):

The only people that will be terminated at the FBI will be those that violate their oath of office, fail to meet the high standards that the FBI.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:45:57):

Director Patel, the FBI is meant to be the tip of the spear in combating terrorism against the United States from both foreign and domestic sources. It's also our lead agency in fighting the hackers who target our businesses in critical infrastructure. But instead of a specialized role fighting these kinds of terrorists, hackers, and spies, you have the FBI playing the role of local police and helping with immigration enforcement.

(02:46:25)
I'm going to move onto my… You've been asking some questions about the changes to your hiring standard, including college degrees and possibly the age. But one question I had is, that you are now requiring applicants to be able to do a certain kind of pull-ups, which a lot of women cannot because of physiological differences. Are you requiring these kinds of pull-ups?

Kash Patel (02:47:08):

We are requiring a physical program at BFTC at Quantico because FBI agents carrying guns in the field have to chase down bad guys and do really hard work. The physical fitness standards of those agents so are being appropriately assessed.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:47:21):

So, are you requiring these kinds of pull-ups?

Kash Patel (02:47:23):

We are requiring everybody to pass the 1811 standards at BFTC. If you want to chase down a bad guy-

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:47:30):

Excuse me, the reason I ask-

Kash Patel (02:47:31):

… and put him in handcuffs, you better be able to do a pull-up.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:47:34):

The reason I ask is that there are concerns about whether or not being able to do these kinds of harsh pull-ups is really required of FBI agents.

Kash Patel (02:47:44):

Doing one pull-up is not harsh and there are always medical exemptions to that.

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:47:48):

Anyway. Mr. Patel, I am greatly concerned. I'm greatly concerned by the state of the FBI under your control and in fact, you are willing to take a cut on your agency of almost half a billion dollars. So the FBI is losing dedicated employees, decades of expertise and specialization, leading to loss to early retirements, firings and reassignments to immigration enforcement or conducting local police work. Thousands have already left. For as long as you remain as the head of the FBI, I fear the number of departures and summary firings will continue to grow.

(02:48:23)
Mr. Patel, before the vote on your nomination of this committee, I noted that your most significant qualification, this is not just something that I noted, but others, your most significant-

Speaker 2 (02:48:36):

[inaudible 02:48:38].

Senator Mazie Hirono (02:48:38):

… qualification was your 100% loyalty to President Trump. And I fear that that continues to be the motivating factor in your position as FBI Director. Thank you, Mr. Chairman

Kash Patel (02:48:50):

May I, Mr. Chairman?

Chuck Grassley (02:48:51):

Director Patel, did you-

Kash Patel (02:48:52):

Yes.

Chuck Grassley (02:48:52):

Anything you wanted to say now?

Kash Patel (02:48:55):

That is an entire falsehood. You can delete my 16 years of government service to multiple administrations all you want. The fact is that I was a public defender. I was a national security prosecutor. I was a House intelligence staffer. I was the Deputy Director of Intelligence, I was a Chief of Staff to the Department of Defense and the Secretary of Defense. I led the counterterrorism missions for the White House. Those are just some of the jobs I held in my 16-year career. There was no loyalty then, there's no loyalty now to anything but the Constitution.

Chuck Grassley (02:49:22):

Senator Britt?

Senator Katie Britt (02:49:24):

Yes. Well, before I begin, I want to thank Senator Hirono for what she said, acknowledging that there are physical differences between men and women. Talking about that women wouldn't be able to do as many pull-ups, and I think that she was making a case here that there should be different standards. There's a thing called Title IX, and this is why we continue to say we should have biological men in men's sports and biological women in women's sports. And so, I look forward to utilizing that to talk to all of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle. Maybe they will stand with us in helping us protect women's sports. I think she made a great argument there for it. Moving on to today, Director Patel, thank you for being here. Thank you for your commitment to making sure that America is safe again. Thank you for doing that coast to coast and within our cities. I certainly look forward to talking about that and talking about your historic gains in these areas. But I would be remiss if I didn't begin my questioning with you about the horrific events that we have seen over the last week. Obviously, our heart breaks not only for Erika and Charlie's two children and for parents and families, but for America, and for those of us who knew him, you being chief among those. So, just my sincere condolences and thank you for the steps that you and the FBI have taken to make sure that we have someone within custody and we're going to be able to move forward with that.

(02:50:51)
But if you look over the last, since summer alone, we had two assassination attempts on the president. We've had an arson attack on the governor, Governor Shapiro there in Pennsylvania. You have the murder of the state representatives, Melissa Hortman and her husband in Minnesota, along with the shooting of state Senator John Hoffman and his wife. Several antisemitic attacks, several attacks on Christians that were noted by Senator Hawley. We had the killing of two Israeli embassy staffers here in DC, the June firebombing in Colorado. We could go on and on and we saw a culmination, as Senator Schmitt said, with the brutal assassination of Charlie Kirk last week. I appreciate you committing to both Senator Hawley and Senator Kennedy, talking about making sure that all that are involved are held accountable. I think that is critically important, and I think that America needs that transparency.

(02:51:45)
I want to read you some words of Vice President JD Vance. He said, "If we want to stop political violence, like what happened to Charlie Kirk, we have to be honest about the people who are celebrating it and the people who are financing it." My question to you is, in light of Charlie's murder and all of the things that we have just referenced and have been talking about today, what steps is the FBI taking to more aggressively crack down on those who promote, encourage, finance, fund, these types of engagements and this type of political violence?

Kash Patel (02:52:22):

Thank you, Senator, for your kind words. So, in terms of how we crack down on the root cause of this violence, for now putting aside the ideological motivations and how they got there. The monetary issue is a real issue and as I've said before, we follow the money. So we work with our partners at the Treasury Department to trace where the money came from, how these individuals paid for the training they received or the platforms they were using. And also, how these individuals collectively got together in whatever groups they were on, on whatever social media sites they were on, to utilize clickbait to make money-

Senator Katie Britt (02:52:59):

Bingo.

Kash Patel (02:52:59):

… for their ideology. And so to trace all of those, we are using, not just in Charlie's investigation, but others, lawful process and serving 2703-D orders on any entity that is related in any way financially to any of these criminal acts of violence. And we are going to hold them accountable with our partners at the Department of Justice.

Senator Katie Britt (02:53:19):

Excellent. I would love to stay abreast of that and just, we must get to the bottom of it, we must follow the money, someone is funding this discourse. Do you believe, obviously there are people here, unfortunately, American citizens that may be engaged in that, but do you also believe that some of this may be coming from overseas?

Kash Patel (02:53:36):

Yes.

Senator Katie Britt (02:53:37):

Okay. Let's get to the bottom of it and let's make it stop.

Kash Patel (02:53:41):

Yes, ma'am.

Senator Katie Britt (02:53:42):

I want to ask you about the Dobbs decision. So, we know that it was leaked in May of '22, and then we had the Marshals service say we found nothing in January of '23. I find that absolutely mind-boggling that we can't figure out who leaked that opinion. We know it was done in attempts to undermine the process, and then the intimidation of the justices occurred after that. Tell me what you can do as FBI Director to help us get to the bottom of what happened and actually hold someone accountable for their actions.

Kash Patel (02:54:16):

So, I can't speak to what the Marshals did and how they conducted their investigation. I can tell you, generally speaking, the FBI has taken over the investigation on the leak because it was such a detrimental leak.

Senator Katie Britt (02:54:28):

So, you commit to getting to the bottom of it?

Kash Patel (02:54:30):

We will. We are utilizing the full resource of the FBI as we usually do on leak investigations, and we will make sure our results are public at the appropriate time.

Senator Katie Britt (02:54:38):

We need answers. I want to talk about child sexual exploitation. Thank you, thank you, thank you for making protecting our youth your top priority. We know that that is the greatest gift that we have, that is our greatest treasure here in the United States, is the next generation. And finally, we have an FBI Director that is putting that

Senator Katie Britt (02:55:00):

… At the top of his list. Can you tell me the steps and the different initiatives? I've heard you talk about a couple of them. You've mentioned 764 amongst another other things. Tell me what you're doing and specifically I want to know about when it comes to sextortion. As a parent who is raising children right now, teenagers and you're looking at what's happening, whether people are snapping photos and then what's happening online, I have had a number of parents sit in front of me telling me terrible, heartbreaking stories about their children ultimately taking their own life because of being blackmailed. I want to know what steps are you taking to get to the bottom of that and to absolutely end this. If this were happening in a storefront Mr. Director, that store would be shut down no matter where it was coast to coast, and yet we continue to allow these things to happen and we've got to have a more target approach when we're looking at this. And so what are you doing to protect children and specifically Sextortion?

Kash Patel (02:55:59):

In our VCAC initiative, our Violent Crimes Against Children is our umbrella enterprise operations hub for things like Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Not Forgotten, and Operation Justice and in things like that those are producing the results that I told you about. 1,500 child predators arrested, 300 human traffickers arrested, 4,700 children identified and saved, a 35% increase from year to date last year alone. But specifically on your sextortion question, Senator, that is a problem that we are seeing explode on generative AI and private sector and social media companies. And what we're doing is engaging with NCMEC, the National Center for Missing and Exploiting Children because this one stat alone should probably cause great pause. They have seen a 1,325% increase in generative AI leading to sextortion and child sexual abuse. That cannot be countermanded by the FBI alone. We have embedded people at NCMEC have had great partnership with them, but what we need to do is what we did in the month of May and we're doing it over and over again. We arrested 400 individuals in one month and one month search.

Senator Katie Britt (02:57:03):

Wow. Thank you.

Kash Patel (02:57:03):

These individuals have prioritized the agents and intel analysts have never left that mission. They're doing multiple missions at the same time. That's what the FBI is called upon to do day in and day out and we won't stop doing two things at once, but we need help from social media companies. We need help from the private sector and the internet service providers that allow this generative AI to be hosted on their platforms. We have got to get a resolution on that with our partners in Congress and the private sector.

Senator Katie Britt (02:57:29):

Well, we are definitely committed to working on that. I know the people up here, so you let us know what tools you need and I know we've got several ideas that we look forward to pushing forward. In my remaining two minutes, I want to talk to you about your historic results when it comes to crime. In particular, we've seen here in DC just a total transformation. You mentioned earlier 60% down in gun crime, 70% down in car jackings, you said 50% down in homicides to name a few. We have a success story and we appreciate President Trump's leadership on all of this. We have a success story in Alabama where the Alabama Law Enforcement Agency, so ALEA, they just marked their one-year anniversary of the Metro Area Crime Suppression Unit. There in Montgomery it is a coordinated effort with ALEA, with our Attorney General, with Montgomery PD, and our Montgomery County Sheriffs. They've seen a 30% drop in violent crime and a 19% drop in overall crime.

(02:58:30)
It is actually producing results. It's this type of inter-agency connectivity that I think ultimately is going to lead us to safer cities and safer streets. I know that you are committed to that, committed to working with your partners. You said earlier you've elevated sheriffs and police officers there to the seventh floor. Thank you for doing that. I am grateful for the men and women of Alabama in uniform that have made this happen and want to know how is the FBI working to collaborate in these types of ways across our country to make sure that we have even greater success stories to tell?

Kash Patel (02:59:04):

Well, the collaboration's happening at our Redstone Arsenal in Alabama. We bring 4,000 students through our Redstone Arsenal for training every year. In terms of our future plans, in the next few years we will bring 13,000 students a year through Alabama's Redstone Arsenal. And by students I mean FBI employees, I mean sheriffs, I mean police chiefs, I mean cops, I mean intel analysts because that is their future gem of how we are going to train local law enforcement. And we're so thankful for the dedication of resources to that facility and I encourage everyone to go down there and take a look because if you want to see where the FBI's going and how we're going to train the future, it's happening at Quantico and Redstone.

Senator Katie Britt (02:59:45):

We are very proud of it. And thank you so much for your leadership.

Chuck Grassley (02:59:48):

Senator Booker.

Booker (02:59:50):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Patel, I want to start off where we left off last time. I asked you whether you had any knowledge or discussions about removing FBI officials and installing political personnel before you were confirmed to that position. And I wonder, did you then understand or have conversations with the White House about the intentions to do so?

Kash Patel (03:00:15):

Before I was confirmed?

Booker (03:00:17):

Yes, sir.

Kash Patel (03:00:18):

Did I have discussions with the White House to remove FBI personnel?

Booker (03:00:21):

Yes.

Kash Patel (03:00:24):

No.

Booker (03:00:25):

You're saying that you had no discussions with the White House before you were in the position about the removal of any personnel from the agency?

Kash Patel (03:00:34):

As I was preparing for my confirmation hearing, I had numerous discussions involving the type of people that would be employed and that those that were failing to meet the mark at the FBI would no longer be employed if I were confirmed-

Booker (03:00:45):

And I'm assuming that mark had to do with loyalty to the Trump administration.

Kash Patel (03:00:48):

No, you're wrong.

Booker (03:00:50):

Okay. I'd like to revisit another subject from that hearing. Did you testify, excuse me, you did testify before the grand jury that President Trump had declassified the documents at issue in the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case. Is that correct?

Kash Patel (03:01:06):

I don't have the grand jury transcript, that's why I released it. Whatever it says is the best evidence.

Booker (03:01:10):

That's what you said to Senator Whitehouse that your grand jury testimony was publicly released. It has not been. In fact, in July a court denied a news outlet's bid to get that transcript, but the court said quite clearly that you are free to discuss your grand jury testimony. I asked you again, did you testify before the grand jury that President Trump declassified the documents at issue in the Mar-a-Lago classified document case?

Kash Patel (03:01:41):

And that is why I took your invitation to work with the department and the court to have that transcript released and the transcript is the best evidence of what I said then.

Booker (03:01:50):

You're saying right now this committee can have access to what you said before the grand jury?

Kash Patel (03:01:56):

To whatever was released. Under my understanding Senator, that the Department of Justice-

Booker (03:02:00):

Hold on-

Kash Patel (03:02:00):

… Released-

Booker (03:02:01):

… Hold on. You and I both understand the law. Let me finish. I understand under Rule 6 of the Federal Rules of Procedure, a grand jury witness, in this case you, is not barred from sharing their grand jury testimony. This is an oversight hearing. This is germane to your integrity and credibility. You know right now whether or not you testified that President Trump declassified the documents at issue in the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case. Why are you refusing to answer that simple yes or no question right now?

Kash Patel (03:02:37):

Because the premise of your question is inaccurate and that is why-

Booker (03:02:41):

There's no premise to my question, but trying to get to an order of what is truth or not-

Kash Patel (03:02:48):

How do you know-

Booker (03:02:48):

… Did you or did you not-

Kash Patel (03:02:48):

… How do you know what was asked in the grand jury if you weren't there?

Booker (03:02:50):

Mr. Patel, this is a mockery you're making of this hearing and simple question-

Kash Patel (03:02:55):

It's a simple question-

Booker (03:02:56):

Let me move on. Mr. Patel-

Kash Patel (03:02:57):

… If you have a transcript, you can read the question but you don't have it-

Booker (03:03:00):

… During your nomination hearing you promised that "all FBI employees will be protected against political retribution." When I ask you are you aware of any plans or discussions to punish in any way, including termination, FBI agents or personnel associated with the Trump administration, you explicitly said under oath that you were not aware of any plans to punish FBI agents associated with criminal investigations of Donald Trump. I don't believe you were truthful. Firing FBI employees based solely on the cases that they are investigating their case assignments is illegal and you know that.

(03:03:34)
A new lawsuit that's been discussed numerous times filed by three FBI officials alleges that you carried out "Donald Trump's campaign of retribution" against FBI employees for "failure to demonstrate sufficient political loyalty." One of those plaintiffs has been discussed today, Brian Driscoll. Now we know 20 years of distinguished service to the FBI before you terminated him. Special agent in charge of FBI's Newark Field Office where he operated with distinction. Medal of Valor winner, Shield of Bravery Awards. He's a patriot. You terminated Driscoll via a letter dated October 8th, 2025 and in that letter you said that you were firing him pursuant to Article II of the Constitution. Well, you're not the president of the United States and so I'm wondering under what authority you were allowed to terminate him?

Kash Patel (03:04:27):

That matter is under litigation and I'm not able to discuss it.

Booker (03:04:29):

Okay, well discuss this. Did you have discussions with Stephen Miller about firing this particular person or about his continuance in the FBI?

Kash Patel (03:04:42):

Not that I recall.

Booker (03:04:43):

How often do you speak to Stephen Miller?

Kash Patel (03:04:47):

Frequently on our Homeland Security task forces.

Booker (03:04:49):

You frequently talk with Stephen Miller about subjects other than Homeland Security task force issues, correct?

Kash Patel (03:04:56):

I frequently talk to Mr. Miller about Homeland Security task forces.

Booker (03:05:02):

Has Stephen Miller ever given you his opinions on how to run your agency?

Kash Patel (03:05:08):

Miller's interagency operations are invaluable to sects of the FBI. That's what we talk about.

Booker (03:05:12):

You frequently discuss your job and your responsibilities with Stephen Miller and Pam Bondi I imagine as well?

Kash Patel (03:05:18):

Absolutely. She's the attorney general.

Booker (03:05:20):

Understood. Okay. Donald Trump promised to make us all safer. You have pushed out senior FBI agents with decades of knowledge and experience. In fact, this is the first time in FBI history that neither the director nor the deputy director have any experience with the FBI. You've shifted the agency's priorities primarily to pursuing Donald Trump's immigration enforcement agenda. According to ICE data, the Cato Institute, which is a conservative think-tank, found that 20% of all agents have been diverted from their work to assist ICE immigration enforcement, 20%. Part of this operation is the work of mass law enforcement who jump out of cars, snatch people off streets at churches, schools, and their jobs and hospitals. Have there been any FBI agents who investigate crimes against children that have been assigned to immigration enforcement, yes or no?

Kash Patel (03:06:19):

The premise of what you say is entirely false-

Booker (03:06:22):

Have there been any FBI agents-

Kash Patel (03:06:23):

No, no, no, no-

Booker (03:06:24):

… Who investigate foreign domestic terror-

Kash Patel (03:06:26):

… You don't get to say the America is not safer under this leadership-

Booker (03:06:28):

I am not saying that. You're making-

Kash Patel (03:06:29):

America safer because of the work of the FBI are doing-

Booker (03:06:31):

… Presumption. You're making presumption of premise-

Kash Patel (03:06:34):

… 4,700 children-

Booker (03:06:35):

Sir, you have-

Kash Patel (03:06:36):

… We have seized 6,000 weapons and 23,000 violent felons have been arrested-

Booker (03:06:40):

… You are not denying FBI agents who investigate human trafficking have been reassigned to immigration enforcement. You are not denying that FBI agents who are on the task force that fight against Russian oligarchs have not been reassigned, public Corrections squad reassigned, people who defend children reassigned. You're not denying that-

Kash Patel (03:06:59):

FBI agents don't get reassigned.

Booker (03:07:02):

I've seen you time and time again attack my colleagues premises of questions as a way to not answer the questions. Let me end with this. I believe you have made our country weaker and less safe. I believe that we are more vulnerable to a major event and I pray to God it doesn't happen. You've gutted the Bureau of Institutional Knowledge and Expertise. You fired or pushed out seasoned FBI officials, many with more than 20 years of experience and who were working on cases that were critical. You've been purging thousands of serious law enforcement officials who spent their careers keeping us safe only to lower hiring standards in order to find anyone to replace them. And shockingly, you admitted in this hearing to Senator Coons that it would take 14 years to fill the vacancies at your agency, many are the result of your purge.

(03:07:52)
20% of FBI agents are doing low-level immigration enforcement instead of their mission-critical work. You've disbanded entire task forces that stop election interference, foreign influence, public corruption, and who benefits from this? Well, corrupt people benefit from it. Criminals benefit from it. Vladimir Putin benefits from it. And it really makes me wonder who you're looking out for. It makes me think we can't trust you as a nation. You swear to release the Epstein files, but now you're withholding the Epstein files. You claim that you have a suspect in a serious assassination. Whoops, then you don't have a suspect. You know nothing about plans to remove FBI agents, yet you're directly involved in those plans. In the words of an ex-FBI official, you are overseeing and I quote "generational destruction of the nation's premier law enforcement agency."

(03:08:49)
Mr. Patel. In just eight months you have assaulted the institutional integrity of the FBI. But I know FBI field agents, I've worked with them in Newark. No matter how truly bad you are, you can't undermine the legacy of agents who fight every day to keep us safe, but you can tarnish the integrity of the agency and undermine the agency's capacity. I believe you're failing as a leader and that your failure does have serious implications for the safety and security of Americans in our families. We're more vulnerable to domestic and foreign attack because of your failures of leadership.

(03:09:24)
I don't think you're fit to in the Bureau, but here's the thing, Mr. Patel, I think you're not going to be around long. I think this might be your last oversight hearing because as much as you supplicate yourself to the will of Donald Trump and not the Constitution of the United States of America, Donald Trump has shown us in his first term and in this term he's not loyal to people like you. He will cut you loose. This may be the last time I have a hearing with you because I don't think you're long for your job, but I'm going to tell you this. I pray for you. I pray for you that you can step up and defend your oath, defend the constitution, and do a much better job of defending this country. Thank you. Mr. Chairman.

Chuck Grassley (03:10:07):

Do you want to say anything at this point?

Kash Patel (03:10:09):

Yes, sir. That rant of false information does not bring this country together. If you want to work on bringing this country… It's my time, not yours-

Booker (03:10:21):

My God. My God. You're going to lecture me-

Kash Patel (03:10:23):

If you want to talk about-

Booker (03:10:25):

… About dividing this country-

Kash Patel (03:10:25):

… It is my time.

Booker (03:10:26):

… I follow you on your social media posts that tear this country apart-

Kash Patel (03:10:30):

It is my time to address your falsehoods-

Booker (03:10:31):

[inaudible 03:10:32] be a unifying [inaudible 03:10:32]

Kash Patel (03:10:32):

… That are an embarrassment to-

Booker (03:10:33):

… You can try all you want-

Kash Patel (03:10:34):

… The division in this country-

Booker (03:10:35):

… To not take responsibility-

Chuck Grassley (03:10:36):

Senator-

Kash Patel (03:10:37):

It is my time. You had your time-

Booker (03:10:40):

… For what you have said. Sir, you are making a mockery of this committee-

Kash Patel (03:10:41):

… Your time is over.

Booker (03:10:41):

… Sir, you don't tell me my time is over. The people-

Kash Patel (03:10:43):

You know how [inaudible 03:10:44]

Booker (03:10:43):

… In New Jersey tell me what my time is-

Chuck Grassley (03:10:43):

Senator-

Booker (03:10:46):

… You can't lecture me-

Chuck Grassley (03:10:49):

… Senator-

Kash Patel (03:10:49):

You can tell me my time-

Booker (03:10:51):

… Sir, you maybe in charge of the FBI but-

Chuck Grassley (03:10:51):

Senator-

Booker (03:10:51):

… I am not afraid of you-

Kash Patel (03:10:51):

I'm not going anywhere.

Speaker 3 (03:10:52):

Mr. Chairman.

Booker (03:10:53):

I'm not afraid of you.

Speaker 3 (03:10:54):

Mr. Chairman, point of order.

Chuck Grassley (03:10:56):

Senator Booker, I announced at the beginning of this meeting that this back and forth talking over each other doesn't work. And I said if that happened, I asked Patel not to respond and I was going to give him some time after the Senator's time was up to respond and he has the privilege to do that uninterrupted.

Booker (03:11:18):

Mr. Chairman, one point of order-

Chuck Grassley (03:11:19):

Go ahead, Mr. Patel.

Booker (03:11:20):

… I've watched him talk over us and you've never once criticized him for us not even be able to get our questions out.

Chuck Grassley (03:11:25):

Well-

Booker (03:11:26):

He has been rude and disrespectful to senator after senator.

Chuck Grassley (03:11:30):

And when the Senators were not giving him a chance to answer, I didn't stop the senator either. Go ahead, Senator or-

Kash Patel (03:11:38):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. If the FBI under my seven-month leadership were failing this administration and this country, why do we have 23,000 violent felons arrested this year alone? 200, excuse me, a double increase from that time last year? Why is it that we have seized 6,000 weapons? Why have we found 1,500 child predators and arrest them? Why have we have 300 human traffickers in jail? Why have we found and identified 4,700 children? Why have we seized 1,600 kilograms of Fentanyl enough to kill a third of the American public, a 25% increase alone from last year? 88,000 kilograms of cocaine seized, 7,000 kilograms of meth seized. And that's just on our criminal operations in summer heat.

(03:12:21)
How is it possible that we are taking eight kilograms off the streets of the cities in New Jersey and preventing the deaths of 607,000 people this year alone a failure of the FBI and my leadership? How is it that we have counterintelligence arrests already this year exceeding the numbers from the entirety of last year? 33% increase in PRC, 83% in Russia, 60% in the CI space as it relates to Iran. And we haven't even talked about CT, the southern border or the northern border.

Chuck Grassley (03:12:48):

Before Senator Cruz, I kind of feel like a broken record today. All this interest in FBI termination, yet my colleagues showed no intent or interest in when my whistleblower suffered retaliation over the past years, particularly the past four years. Indeed, one whistleblower has alleged that Brian Driscoll's insubordination. Whether an agent is on a hot button case or not, they ought to be held accountable for misconduct and weaponization. Senator Cruz.

Mr. Hawley (03:13:26):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have to say, it used to be that to see theater, you had to go to the Kennedy Center. Now apparently you need only go to the Senate Judiciary Committee and see our Senate Democrats berating the director of the FBI, which okay, it's not, partisan politics is not new in the United States Congress. But what is remarkable is what Senator Booker was berating Director Patel about. He wasn't berating him for failing to do his job, but rather he was furious for Director Patel for successfully doing his job.

(03:14:07)
For four years, the Democrats under Joe Biden had an open border that undermined the safety of every single American. They allowed 12 million illegal aliens to come into this country, to invade this country and every single day, Americans were murdered, women were raped, children were assaulted by violent criminals that Democrats released. Now, Director Patel, I found Senator Booker's questioning really bizarre. He asked you, "Have you reassigned FBI agents from human trafficking to immigration issues?" Director Patel, are the Mexican cartels that are bringing people illegally into this country engaged in human trafficking?

Kash Patel (03:14:50):

Yes, sir.

Mr. Hawley (03:14:51):

What the hell does it mean to reassign someone from human trafficking to immigration? The greatest human trafficking in the world has been over the last four years on our southern border. It is modern-day slavery that the Democrats still defend. They still defend those open borders. Mr. Patel, he also said, "Did you reassign FBI agents from protecting children to immigration?" How many children have you found that were victimized by the open borders of the previous administration?

Kash Patel (03:15:28):

4,700.

Mr. Hawley (03:15:30):

4, 700. And yet, oddly, I don't hear a Democrat here saying, "Gosh, thanks for protecting those kids."

Kash Patel (03:15:37):

35% increase year-to-date last year.

Mr. Hawley (03:15:45):

All right, I want to shift topics and I want to shift topics to what happened last week. Charlie Kirk was assassinated. He was assassinated because of his political views. We're living in a time of enormous division and tragically hatred and hatred that manifested in evil that we saw last week. Now the FBI working in concert with state and local law enforcement apprehended what appears to be in all likelihood the murderer. And you did so in just 33 hours. I want to start by just congratulating you and the FBI agents and state and local law enforcement for successfully apprehending the murderer in less than a day and a half. In the wake of that assassination, we have seen far too many people on the left celebrating the assassination. We've seen Democrats, we've seen activists cheering it on. We've seen tragically teachers, teachers in high schools, teachers in elementary schools, university professors cheering on the murder of Charlie Kirk. You and I both knew Charlie well. He was a good friend. He was an extraordinary man. And I will say there's a great deal of discussion about what to do about it.

(03:17:26)
Under our Constitution, under the Bill of Rights, the First Amendment speech is protected. And that's true even for vile speech. Someone can stand up and say the most hateful thing and it's protected by the First Amendment. Nazis and Klansmen can march in the streets and even though their speech is bigoted and horrible and racist, the First Amendment protects it. Conduct, however, is not protected by the First Amendment. Particularly conduct that is violent. Violent conduct that is threatening others, that is harassing others, that is injuring or in this case, murdering others, is most assuredly not protected by the First Amendment. And so I would encourage you and the FBI to focus on conduct. Now, speech can guide you to those engaged in conduct.

(03:18:22)
And I will say one question that I have and many have, and I recognize this as an ongoing investigation, so I don't want you to say anything that would compromise the investigation, but what can you tell us at this point about what evidence there exists of other individuals who may have had prior knowledge of this assassin's plans to murder Charlie Kirk, September 10th?

Kash Patel (03:18:46):

Generally speaking, we've interviewed numerous people, family members and friends, including the partner, to provide us with a detailed history of the knowledge he may have had, the suspect may have had prior to. We are still mapping out who, if anyone was involved as an accomplice. As I said, the investigation is ongoing. We're also speaking to and going to interview numerous individuals online who were part of a chat group that was involved in this heinous assassination. And we're also going to work with our state and local partners out in Utah to find out what community organizations, if any, participated or had any foreknowledge of this information. But it's very much ongoing. I remind everybody that it's not even been a week since Charlie's tragic death.

Mr. Hawley (03:19:35):

Is it accurate, it's been widely reported that the assassin's roommate was a transgender man who was transitioning to be female and it's also been reported that they may have been romantic partners. Is that accurate?

Kash Patel (03:19:49):

Yes, Senator.

Mr. Hawley (03:19:53):

And I assume the FBI is investigating, it has also been reported that there were transgender chat rooms that may have had some awareness of the plan to commit this murder? Is that accurate as well?

Kash Patel (03:20:11):

I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?

Mr. Hawley (03:20:13):

It's been reported that there were chat rooms of transgender activists that indicated some degree of, potentially of foreknowledge of this murder.

Kash Patel (03:20:21):

We're still developing that.

Mr. Hawley (03:20:23):

Do you have any information the bullet casings had on them, both Antifa and LGBT wording on them? Do you have any indication of the source of those engravings and what inspired them?

Kash Patel (03:20:42):

As to the actual source, we're still developing that.

Mr. Hawley (03:20:48):

I want to encourage you in the course of this investigation, absolutely go after anyone who aided and abetted. But I want to more broadly encourage you follow the money. The violence we are seeing is not purely organic. There is, I believe, significant money that is spreading dissension, that is spreading violence. Antifa. Do you believe Antifa is a terrorist organization?

Kash Patel (03:21:21):

I believe Antifa is associated with a lot of violence in this country. As to its designation, I'll leave that to the appropriate authorities.

Mr. Hawley (03:21:28):

I would encourage the administration to designate Antifa as a terrorist organization to go systematically after Antifa. They've committed acts of violence all over the country and the shell casings have multiple references to slogans that Antifa has popularized. I believe there is considerable money funding it. I would note that I've introduced legislation called the Stop Funders Act. Stop Funders Act would add rioting to the list of predicate offenses under RICO. I believe the money should be tracked and prosecuted under RICO and both the Antifa and Black Lives Matter riots of a couple of years ago and the pro-open border riots in Los Angeles and other cities of this past year. I believe there was significant money behind those riots. I'm not the only person who noticed at the anti-Semitic protest and violent protests on college campuses that many of the tents all matched.

(03:22:29)
And so I would ask, would it aid your ability to prosecute these matters if Congress passed into law the Stop Funders Act, and if rioting was added to the list of predicate offenses for RICO?

Kash Patel (03:22:42):

Yes.

Mr. Hawley (03:22:46):

Talk to me about the efforts of the FBI to go after the funders of the anti-Semitic protests on college campuses, the pro-open border protests in cities, and potential LGBT violence. Talk to me about the efforts to go after the money of those who are funding and promoting violence.

Kash Patel (03:23:08):

As I've always said, Senator, money doesn't lie and we've been following the money. And so that's what we're doing. Issuing lawful process to organizations involved with criminal activity because the money's got to come from somewhere and it has to be funded somehow. We have extensive investigations ongoing into numerous organizations that are related to violent criminal activity.

Mr. Hawley (03:23:27):

Cutting off the money will make America much safer and that is the core job of the FBI and I thank you for doing your job.

Chuck Grassley (03:23:34):

Senator Padilla.

Padilla (03:23:36):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, glad to be on this committee and take our responsibility seriously to conduct oversight of the FBI. Obviously, one of the most critical law enforcement agencies in the country. As Senator Klobuchar and others on this committee have reminded us, the last several months have provided far too many reminders of the political violence crisis in America today and the gun violence crisis in America today, including the tragic killing just last week.

(03:24:16)
Director Patel, this committee takes seriously its not just oversight role, but recognizing the FBI's important role in protecting the public from gun violence while respecting constitutional rights. If you recall, this was a significant subject area of my questioning during your confirmation hearing. The Bureau plays a central role in enforcing federal firearm laws, ensuring the accuracy of background checks and monitoring trends like machine gun conversion devices and lost or stolen firearms. Now, during your confirmation hearing, you pledged that the FBI would enforce firearm laws fully and fairly consistent with the Second Amendment. Yet we continue to see a sharp rise in lost and stolen firearms reported by federal licensees. Can you point to any measurable enforcement results like arrests, not just arrests, but also prosecutions or task force expansions since you became director?

Kash Patel (03:25:18):

I'll get those to you, Senator.

Padilla (03:25:20):

Nothing you can share here today.

Kash Patel (03:25:22):

No, I'll get the full list to you.

Padilla (03:25:25):

You came unprepared today to respond to questions which you knew were important going back to your confirmation hearing. Now, the Bureau has warned about the public safety threat posed by machine gun conversion devices, which converts semi-automatic weapons to automatic ones. Can you at least reference what resources you're dedicating to this threat?

Kash Patel (03:25:48):

Absolutely, Senator. Part of tracking ghost guns, as you alluded to, is having a sustainable database, which is hubbed out of our CJIS division in West Virginia. And we've allocated more resources so that FFLs can track and trace firearms that are stolen and make sure they don't get into the population. That's one of my primary concerns, that we don't want stolen weapons anywhere near anything.

Padilla (03:26:09):

I think the numbers continue to go up as reported by federal licensees. Let me get to my next question on this topic. You previously stated that you hadn't reviewed Fix NICS, a federal law that improves reporting to the National Criminal Background Check System. Eight months into your job what concrete steps have you taken to ensure that NICS records are complete, accurate, and timely?

Kash Patel (03:26:30):

That's actually a great question that we have dedicated a lot of resources to. Again, at CJIS, the NICS system has been trying to get to 100% within 15 minutes. We are currently at 93% with 87% of those being responsive in less than 60 seconds. We got more work to do-

Padilla (03:26:47):

Do you think additional resources would be helpful in getting to 100% or do you still argue that less resources are necessary to get from 93 to 100%?

Kash Patel (03:26:55):

No, I just think we have to work on how fast our actual infrastructure processes these things.

Padilla (03:27:02):

Onto a question about resources, the FBI's core mission is to counter terrorism, espionage, and major criminal threats. Now, recent large-scale reassignments to immigration enforcement or politically motivated investigations caused me concerns that other critical missions are being neglected. One example, in March of this year you created a Tesla related task force and diverted personnel from the domestic terrorism operations section to work on that task force. What risk analysis justified that decision and do you still consider domestic violent terrorism to be a lower priority?

Kash Patel (03:27:42):

Any form of terrorism, domestic or international is the highest priority at the FBI and when you say-

Padilla (03:27:47):

But why convert resources away from those missions?

Kash Patel (03:27:49):

I don't believe that's accurate. We did not divert resources away. When cars were exploding and people were being set on fire, I directed resources to address it.

Padilla (03:27:57):

Well then I'll suggest in your follow-up and we can make this more explicit in our questions for the record that you provided the accurate information about the diversion of resources. Because again, when I understand that you authorize large-scale agent reassignments from counterintelligence and cybercrime to not just immigration cases but others, it has an impact on the other priorities like nation-state threats and ransomware investigations.

(03:28:26)
Moving on to a different subject area. Safeguarding our elections is a core FBI responsibility. The public needs confidence that election security work is driven by facts and free from political influence. Mr. Director, do you agree with Attorney General Bondi's decision to disband the FBI Foreign Influence task force?

Kash Patel (03:28:49):

The disbanding of that task force did not in any way reallocate or take away resources from that critical mission set.

Padilla (03:28:57):

Then how are you mitigating the risk of foreign actors interfering in U.S. elections heading in-

Kash Patel (03:29:01):

As I've highlighted… Through our cyber programs, which have seen a 40, 50, 60% increase in arrests for cyber threat actors looking to not just harm our critical infrastructure systems but also interfere in our elections. We've had multiple arrests this years of individuals who are interfering in that process.

Padilla (03:29:19):

Did the Department of Justice's Election Integrity task force seek statewide voter lists and driver's license data?

Kash Patel (03:29:26):

I can't speak for the Department of Justice.

Padilla (03:29:29):

You're a member of the Department of Justice.

Kash Patel (03:29:30):

I can speak for the-

Padilla (03:29:31):

Did the FBI play a role in those requests?

Kash Patel (03:29:33):

Whatever request that we had pursuant to the Department's direction were provided.

Padilla (03:29:39):

Then you can speak-

Kash Patel (03:29:43):

For the FBI.

Padilla (03:29:45):

… To those actions.

Kash Patel (03:29:46):

For the FBI.

Padilla (03:29:47):

You can speak to those actions?

Kash Patel (03:29:48):

For the FBI.

Padilla (03:29:48):

What role did you play in those requests?

Kash Patel (03:29:51):

Whatever requests we get from the Department, I don't have those details in front of me, we provide whatever requests they have.

Padilla (03:29:56):

You have not many details in front of you on a lot of the questions come from this

Padilla (03:30:00):

… side of the aisle. So I do hope that there are substantive and accurate responses to our questions in writing. In my time left, Mr. Chairman, I just want to call it a couple of observations. The director before us has tried to explain, I won't say, explain. Try to explain how he doesn't need another $500 million to do the job, and specifically that even if the FBI had an additional $500 million, it would take years. I think he referenced 14 years to fill the vacancies, but in the meantime, relying on partnership with local law enforcement to fulfill the mission of the Bureau. As we've discussed in other hearings and in other committees, by the way, given this immigration, mass deportation agenda of the administration, the FBI is not the only one leaning on local law enforcement to do the job.

(03:31:08)
ICE has made it clear that they're doing the same, other law enforcement agencies within DHS is doing the same. So much so that ICE's recruitment, because they're not only not advocating for cuts, they're actually requesting additional dollars and have issues about policy with them. But if ICE's plan to do the job is not just hiring up significantly, they don't seem to have that as a concern, but the FBI does. Both ICE and the FBI are citing partnerships with local law enforcement, which look, partnership and engagement is great. But having come from local law enforcement at the outset of my public service career, I also know that capacity and resources at the local level are strained, particularly in times like this.

(03:32:00)
And when ICE is going on a hiring spree and you have local law enforcement agencies worried about their ability to recruit and retain local law enforcement officers and not losing them to the federal government, then our reliance on those local law enforcement agencies is a perilous strategy to take and could undermine local law enforcement's ability to address crime at the local level, whether it's white collar crime, organized retail theft, violent crime, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And in my final minute, I will also suggest this Director Patel has referenced earlier in the hearing that one of the most significant value added to partnering with local law enforcement is that they are the best intelligent source. Is that correct?

Kash Patel (03:32:53):

From on the ground.

Padilla (03:32:55):

Yet when local law enforcement is put in a perilous position of being in a role with this mass deportation agenda, which is consistently overreached, has been found to violate the law and the Constitution, and has undermined public confidence and law enforcement, not just by immigrants by the way, but especially immigrants, when immigrants are victims of crime and are afraid to come forward because they don't know what law enforcement is going to do with their information or not. When immigrants, legal or undocumented are witnesses to crime and are afraid to come forward with that information because they don't know what's going to happen with their information or not, that undermines the credibility of law enforcement with community and undermines the intelligence Director Patel, that you say are the best source of intelligence when it comes to law enforcement. So it's shaky, it's worrisome, and in my opinion, overall, you are failing to live up to the role and responsibility that you have been confirmed to. And I associate with myself with everything Senator Booker said earlier. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chuck Grassley (03:34:16):

Okay, before we go to Senator Blackburn, without objection, I want to introduce you to the record, a recently declassified document thanks to Director Patel. The document is a Director Wray FBI analysis of Nellie Orr's false statement to the Congress. ORR never suffered consequences for advancing the phony Trump Russia narrative and attempting to cover up her involvement in the hoax with false statements. Yet time and again, the American justice system has been weaponized against President Trump and his associates such as Peter Navarro with Reckless Abandon. The DOJ's inaction on Nellie Orr's criminal referral, despite the obvious incriminating evidence provided in the FBI's own analysis, undermines public trust and the rule of law, thanks to Director Wray's utter failure. Senator Blackburn.

Speaker 4 (03:35:19):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. And Director Patel, thank you ever so much for being with us today. And I want to thank you for your commitment to fight violent crime in Memphis. And when you first came to meet with me before your hearing here, I gave you the stats on Memphis, Tennessee and their crime rates. And then you committed then and again at your confirmation to help us. You have been true to your word and we are very, very grateful. Operation Viper has been such a success. The 500 arrests are important. These are gang members and gang leaders out of Memphis, Tennessee. There are over a hundred gangs in Memphis. So the impact of these arrests, the impact of 100 indictments of these gang members, and now we have a U.S attorney's office that will actually prosecute violent crimes and actually take up and prosecute federal gun crimes.

(03:36:33)
This is helping to make Memphis safe again. And yesterday at the White House, to have the president announce the second phase of this, with bringing in the Guard, and we've got ATF and DEA and the U.S Marshals and Homeland Security and the work that you and General Bondi and the president have done is so appreciated by the people of Memphis, Shelby County, West Tennessee, and I am ever so grateful for the work you've done. One of the things as we talk about Memphis and what a vibrant and wonderful historic city it is, it's important to realize Memphis is one of the logistics hubs in our country. You have I-40, which goes East Coast to West Coast. You have the Port of Memphis, you have FedEx, you have all five class A railroads that are there, as well as so many companies that are important to Memphis.

(03:37:50)
And I have found it so interesting that some of my colleagues want to complain about agents being taken out of the D. C office and actually put to work in the field because they've been needed in the field. And you can look at the stats from Operation Viper and see the difference that they have made, and we so appreciate that. I do want to drill down just a little bit on the issue of cargo theft, which ties into the logistics hub in Memphis. We've got a lot of companies that go through there. IMC is a big logistics company. People in Memphis know what it takes to keep America moving. But what a lot of people may not realize is that many of these criminal gangs have been focused on cargo theft. This is how they pay for their activities. So in addition to the car jackings and the home robberies and the smash and grabs and some of the human and sex trafficking, they've gotten into cargo theft and cargo theft in Memphis has increased over 5,000%. 5,000%. That's what you saw with a Biden administration who wouldn't drill down on this. So having these agents out in the field, having an interagency approach is something that is going to help us with getting our hands around this cargo theft. So talk for just a minute about what your team has done there and the importance of having that interagency approach.

Kash Patel (03:39:56):

Absolutely, Senator. So Operation Viper nests under Operation Summer Heat and in multiple cities and mid-major cities across the country, we have surging resources based on crime. And Memphis, as you know, Senator had the highest per capita homicide in the rate in the country, and that was simply unacceptable. And so what we did was what we call phase zero one of operations at the president's direction. We went into some of these cities quietly to collect the intelligence that was necessary to start these operations to start seizing these firearms, which we seized, I think over 115 firearms off the streets to start taking narcotics off the streets and also to infiltrate the gang network, this criminal street gang network that is providing these guns and drugs to the public in these communities allowing for these shootings.

(03:40:40)
And so what the FBI is great at is partnering with our local authorities in places like Memphis and Miami and Chicago and so many other cities across the country to start the work because you can't do the work on a dartboard basis. You need ground level intelligence. And that's what we do working with our state and local law enforcement and the results, I think there's said over a hundred indictments federally just in this three, four months surge. And now we're going to go in there with more resources to finish it.

Speaker 4 (03:41:11):

And we are grateful for that. And I think it's so important for my colleagues, what we have seen in Memphis, you mentioned something very important, your agents go in and they go in quietly. There was no press conference, there was no fanfare. You went in there to work and very importantly, you gathered the intel. Who are these gang leaders? Where are they? Figuring out who was doing what and then setting up the process to apprehend these individuals. And it requires infiltrating those networks and having that data to work from so that you are working in partnership. And as I have talked with elected leaders in Shelby County and Memphis, as we have talked with those in law enforcement, they have been so grateful to have this support and this additional education that comes because local police are learning from your agents when they are learning how to track these gangs and infiltrate these networks.

(03:42:32)
We know that phase two of this operation is going to kick off. The Guard is going to be there to support the Memphis Police Department to help them catch up because they still have a lot of people on their board. They know who they are, where they are, what they're doing. They want to apprehend them and bring them forward. So talk a little bit about how phase two is going to continue to work to support the law enforcement efforts in Memphis.

Kash Patel (03:43:09):

Well, it's just like what happened here in Washington D.C. It takes a whole of government interagency approach where we're working with the Attorney General, the DEA, the ATF, the US Marshals, Department of Homeland Security, because each one of those agencies has specialized capabilities. And when we surge together to work off of the ground level intelligence was collected. You see what happened in Washington D.C here, and that's the next phase of it because you are able to utilize the National Guard to set up border perimeter operations. So when you go into an area, you have the secure workspace to get in there and stay in there. The key here, Senator, is sustained criminal investigations and sustained prosecutions that clear Memphis like we did Washington permanently and leave behind a blueprint for what local law enforcement can do with our federal partners to sustain that. We don't want to go backwards and that's critical, but we're in the next step. Sustaining it will be the last one.

Speaker 4 (03:44:04):

Well, and we certainly appreciate that. I do want to touch on Operation Restore Justice and Senator Britt mentioned some of this very briefly, and I know that you and AG Bondi have done a tremendous amount of work in protecting children. I appreciate that. And we passed my report ACT last year and President Biden signed it, and this does require social media to report to NCMEC so that we can have these perpetrators followed up with and apprehended. That's a good start. We're still trying to get the Kids Online Safety Act passed. That has been a bipartisan effort. We have looked with disdain at what has happened with Discord and Charlie Kirk's alleged killer. Talk for a moment about what else Congress ought to do in order to give you all the toolbox you need to apprehend these predators and pedophiles.

Kash Patel (03:45:12):

Well, I think we need to go after the monetary backbone of this infrastructure like we discussed earlier. I think we also need to make parents across the country aware of how invasive some of these social media sites are and how much criminal enterprise is going on and how easily these kids can be sucked into it. And also the only way, in my opinion, to do that as a Senator Klobuchar, and I believe Senator Graham had stated was, "We need to work on Section 230. It's been too long since we've addressed it. Nobody's being held accountable, they're making money, and our youth is dying, and that's just unacceptable.

Speaker 4 (03:45:51):

Well, we have that reform bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chuck Grassley (03:45:54):

Thank you. Senator Welch.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:45:57):

Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman. And just at the outset, I just want to say what I think all of us believe, and that is that the political violence that is so afflicting our country, it doesn't matter whether it's from the right or the left. I mean, all of us have an obligation to fiercely advocate for our point of view. All of us have an obligation to respect people with whom we disagree. The folks we disagree with are our opponents, but they're not our enemies. And I hope all of us keep that in mind and do the best we can to set that example. I want to congratulate the FBI. I want to congratulate the Utah state and local law enforcement for the very good work that it did in apprehending the violent assailant of Charlie Kirk. And that is a terrible, terrible tragedy. Director Patel, at one point, you made an announcement that the suspect was in custody. We got our man. It turned out that was not true. In fact, I think that was about 27 hours before the personnel in custody was apprehended. Why did you make that statement?

Kash Patel (03:47:14):

Thank you, Senator. Appreciate you letting me address this. What the FBI does is not just locate and find suspects, but we also participate in eliminating subjects. And what we had at the time was a subject in custody in relation to this investigation. So in my commitment to work with the public to help identify subjects and suspects, I put that information out and then when we interviewed him, I put out the results of that. And could I have been more careful in my verbiage and included a subject instead of subject? Sure. In the heat of the moment, but I was doing the best I could.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:47:48):

In all candor, I don't quite get that because if we have our man that would suggest to the public that everybody can rest and relax and not then continue to provide information to the local law enforcement and to you. So that was a mistake.

Kash Patel (03:48:02):

I don't see it as a mistake. I see it as something working with the public to identify that there was a subject in custody.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:48:08):

So if you put out a statement that says, we've got our man, and in fact it turns out that you didn't have your man, that's not a mistake?

Kash Patel (03:48:16):

But that's not what I said.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:48:21):

Well, I'll go on. That's my understanding. A second thing that is really important in the FBI, but it's important in every agency, is that the folks who are doing good work get supported for the work they're doing. And a number of highly successful FBI agents have been let go. And I want to just ask you a little bit about that. You know who Brian Driscoll is, right?

Kash Patel (03:48:49):

Yes.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:48:49):

Yeah. Okay. And my understanding is he served at the FBI for over 18 years. You agree?

Kash Patel (03:48:55):

I believe that's accurate.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:48:56):

Special agent in charge of the Newark office, he was commander of the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team. That's a very prestigious and responsible position. Correct?

Kash Patel (03:49:07):

It is.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:49:09):

Section Chief of the Critical Incident Response Groups Tactical Section. You've got to be pretty good to get that high responsibility. You agree with that?

Kash Patel (03:49:20):

Yes sir.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:49:21):

You oversaw 55 SWAT teams and they're like the elite of the elite, right? They go in to the dangerous situations, right? He got a Medal of Valor for his participation in a raid on Isis, terrorist Abu Sayyaf who had kidnapped American citizens, Kayla Mueller? Is that right?

Kash Patel (03:49:44):

Yeah. I know.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:49:47):

You're in agreement, right?

Kash Patel (03:49:49):

I know Kayla Mueller family. Yes, I know the situation.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:49:51):

Okay. And he got Kurt Meyers, somebody who had barricaded himself in a bar after he killed four people and wounded two. And Driscoll was part of the team that went in there and took that guy out, right?

Kash Patel (03:50:08):

I don't have all the details, but I'll take your word for it, Senator.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:50:12):

And he got into trouble when acting, when Emil Bove demanded a list of FBI agents who investigated January 6th and was apprehensive that what did happen ultimately would happen. And that is those folks would get fired. I mean, do you agree with me that a boss who stands up for his subordinates when they did the job that was asked of them is a stand-up person and somebody to be admired?

Kash Patel (03:50:48):

Generally speaking, yes, sir.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:50:49):

Pardon me?

Kash Patel (03:50:50):

Generally speaking, yes sir.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:50:52):

But Driscoll got fired, right?

Kash Patel (03:50:55):

Again, that matter is under litigation. And the matter you referenced occurred before I was director.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:50:59):

Let's just keep it fairly narrow here. He's fired, right?

Kash Patel (03:51:04):

Yes. He was terminated.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:51:07):

There's somebody communicates to him that he's terminated, correct?

Kash Patel (03:51:11):

That's my job.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:51:12):

That's your job. So you communicated to him that he was fired?

Kash Patel (03:51:15):

I did.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:51:18):

I have a hard time with this because that record suggests to me that this person is worthy of consideration for the Presidential Medal of Freedom and he got fired.

Kash Patel (03:51:28):

But there's also a record of other information that was available, and now that this matter is pending litigation, we will get that out in due course, but as you can agree-

Senator Thom Tillis (03:51:37):

So you've got other information that you see as a valid basis to fire somebody who, from what I can tell, had an absolutely outstanding record and who crossed the threshold of getting in trouble because he was standing up for agents serving under him who did work that was assigned to them, that happened to be related to the January 6th uprising.

Kash Patel (03:52:06):

Again, you are correlating based on your information, the reasons for his termination. And I'm telling you-

Senator Thom Tillis (03:52:11):

No, that's right. Let me ask you another question. When you were here, you were rightly critical, not here actually, I guess it was on Kash's Corner. You were rightly critical of the way that the previous FBI director used the FBI jet, and you said you wanted to ground Chris Wray's private jet travel that he pays for with taxpayer dollars to hop around the country. Let me ask you this. On the weekend, according to flight tracker data, on the weekend of March 7th, an FBI plane flew roundtrip from D.C to Las Vegas, and you attended a UFC flight with Mel Gibson. And I'll show you that. Is that you? And is that true?

Kash Patel (03:52:56):

Yeah. You want to do the difference? I live in Las Vegas, I'm allowed to go home. I didn't leave a congressional hearing early on an FBI jet to dodge questions.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:53:04):

All right. Then on April 5th, you attended a hockey game in New York City. You don't live there, right?

Kash Patel (03:53:09):

No, I don't.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:53:11):

By the way, everyday FBI agents who are signed in Washington don't get to fly home on a private jet.

Kash Patel (03:53:17):

Well, this is a great point. Do you know why I have to use a private jet? Because Congress made it mandatory.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:53:22):

Okay, in April 5th. Well, we didn't make it mandatory that you go to UFC games with Mel Gibson.

Kash Patel (03:53:29):

Are you telling me I can't go home?

Senator Thom Tillis (03:53:32):

You got to use some judgment here.

Kash Patel (03:53:34):

So when I'm at home, I can't do what I'm doing when I go home.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:53:37):

Let me-

Kash Patel (03:53:37):

Everybody else is allowed to go home, just not me.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:53:39):

… Let me keep going. No, I'm glad you go home. I love to go home, but I don't go home on a private jet. On April 5th, you-

Kash Patel (03:53:45):

You're not mandated to do so.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:53:47):

… you attended a hockey game in New York City with Wayne Gretzky and Flight Tracker says the FBI jet took you to and from New York City where you don't live, right?

Kash Patel (03:53:56):

That's correct.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:53:57):

And on April 12th, on the following weekend, you attended a UFC, a fight in Miami also on the FBI jet, right?

Kash Patel (03:54:07):

That's correct.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:54:09):

So what's the cost to the taxpayer for those three flights?

Kash Patel (03:54:15):

I pay the commercial equivalent per the little regs and the law. And so just so you know, when you are comparing me to prior directors-

Senator Thom Tillis (03:54:23):

I asked what the cost was, and you don't know, I take it.

Kash Patel (03:54:27):

Yeah. And what I've done with the use of the private jet is use Andrews Air Force base versus Reagan National as what the other directors have done-

Senator Thom Tillis (03:54:35):

Bottom line here-

Kash Patel (03:54:36):

… to save the taxpayer dollars.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:54:37):

… Bottom line here, you flew home to Las Vegas. There's nobody else in the FBI who gets… they have to pay their own way if they want go home, right? I mean, one of the… right?

Kash Patel (03:54:48):

Well, that's not accurate. Depending on where you're stationed, the FBI covers the bill to get home.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:54:54):

So are you telling me that FBI agents who are signed in Washington, but who may live in Charlotte, they get paid by the FBI to go home?

Kash Patel (03:55:02):

Sometimes they do, yes.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:55:03):

All right. Another thing I want to say is this. Our local law enforcement has been stiffed about $500 million in COP grants have been taken out of the budget. Those really help us in Burlington. They help us in Rutland. They really are important. And why in the world would we be cutting those COP grants when we need that local law enforcement in part to partner with you? Do you support that?

Kash Patel (03:55:34):

I think you're speaking to the Department of Justice grants, which I don't adjudicate, but also Vermont, just like every other state has received a plus up of FBI personnel.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:55:43):

Well, I'll tell you, that's not what we're seeing. The other thing, my understanding is that there's a requisition or an effort to get another plane for the FBI that would cost about $72 million. Is that right?

Kash Patel (03:55:58):

That's inaccurate. The FBI, because the jet, as you call it, is not my jet. We use it for operational needs. We use it for FTOCs, we use it for HRT-

Senator Thom Tillis (03:56:07):

That's the one you fly in, right?

Kash Patel (03:56:09):

… and we have multiple fixed-wing assets and one of them is on a wildly expensive lease that I deemed a waste of money and I'm looking for a replacement in which the government can procure assets permanently.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:56:22):

Well, I would welcome you submitting to this committee the cost information about the jets that are under consideration. And according to our research, the specifications that are included in this request would result in an expenditure of between $72 million and $80 million.

Kash Patel (03:56:44):

That's inaccurate, but I'll happily get you the right numbers.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:56:45):

I welcome getting the specific information.

Kash Patel (03:56:47):

Absolutely.

Senator Thom Tillis (03:56:48):

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Chuck Grassley (03:56:58):

[inaudible 03:56:52] Mr. Mike. It's on, but I can get closer. Comey became FBI director 2013. And then something like when I became ranking member in the middle of a Congress or I was ranking member, Comey needed an excuse to come to Des Moines, Iowa or someplace in Iowa for a family reunion. He wanted to meet with me in Waterloo, Iowa. I think nothing more than an excuse to say he did something official on that trip. Now, I can't accuse him of that because I don't know, but I can't recall that we discussed anything very serious that had to meet him in Waterloo or Cedar Rapids at the airport before he went to the union.

(03:57:54)
And then two or three years ago, Wray was sitting where you were and we had two Republicans, one to have second round of questioning and it would've taken about 10 minutes and he refused to because he got on this airplane that you're talking about going to the Adirondacks.

Kash Patel (03:58:13):

Thank you. Can I-

Chuck Grassley (03:58:14):

I find interesting that my Democratic colleagues seem to bring up about your use of the Justice Department planes. Yet my Democratic colleagues didn't seem too interested about my oversight of Wray's use of the plane. I didn't hear a peep. So my Democratic colleagues need to be consistent.

Kash Patel (03:58:34):

Can I just add Mr. Chairman, that when you compare the flight logs and the percentage of work travel to personal travel for the prior two FBI directors, over a third of their travel was personal. On those same jets that I'm properly utilizing, my mark is far less than that. Also, both of those directors use Reagan National Airport, which has landing fees of five to $10,000 because they didn't want to drive 25 minutes to Andrew's. We take off and land in Andrew's every single time because it's cheaper and we do so because it saves the taxpayer dollars. Those are the things we are doing to make sure that we are good stewards of taxpayer dollars. And also, any new acquisition of an airline or a fixed-wing asset for the FBI will specifically meet the needs of the demands of the foreign FTOC operations and hostage rescue operations in our critical infrastructure programs.

Chuck Grassley (03:59:23):

Senator Moody.

Senator Ashley Moody (03:59:26):

Thank you, Chairman. Appreciate it.

Chuck Grassley (03:59:28):

You're very patient.

Senator Ashley Moody (03:59:30):

I am very patient. You're very patient. I'm new here to the Senate and I watch what you have to go through as chairman. And we thank you. A lot of what we're talking about today and you've been questioned about was uncovered because of our chairman and his service to this committee. And I want to thank him because he's uncovered a lot, especially during the last administration where many of our federal agencies went far off their mission. And I believe we wouldn't have as much information as we do if it wasn't for our esteemed chairman. So I wanted to publicly thank him. And being the newest member of Judiciary, I am so grateful to be here because sometimes I'm wondering if some of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle don't know what they're talking about or if they're ill-intentioned and purposefully trying to gaslight not just the American public, but other people in law enforcement and agencies that you're working with.

(04:00:33)
So as a former attorney general, as a former federal prosecutor, as a former judge, as the wife of a law enforcement officer, both federal and state over the course of his career, I would like to clarify a few things and give you the opportunity to highlight some of the things that the FBI is doing. And two of the things I heard thrown out there, and by the way, it was when some of my colleagues would breeze in just in time to rail on you and spout out misinformation and narratives that have no grounding in reality to criminal justice and then breezed right out as soon as they were done. And I think that it does the American public more good when the oversight function of Congress allows for you to comment in a way that makes sense and is grounded in reality. So let's first talk about the reason why we are having to reassign not just in the FBI, but in other agencies, criminal justice agencies, federal agents, to accomplish different things as has been done historically throughout our country.

(04:01:44)
When we get into office, we have to examine and triage the threats facing this nation, threats facing Americans, and then reallocate resources accordingly. I guess you are to be judged negatively because you are trying to reallocate the resources of the FBI to fix what the Democratic administration prior to this under Biden broke. So let's talk about the reassignment of federal agents and why that has been necessary. Would you say that the majority of assignments has been made because we are facing unprecedented levels of violence, both because of the unvetted surge of anywhere from 11 million to 20 million people across our border in the last four years and because of the woke, weak, insane policies that have been pushed into states and cities around this nation by the left?

Kash Patel (04:02:50):

Absolutely.

Senator Ashley Moody (04:02:52):

And so I hear you being grilled because you have rightfully pushed resources where they needed to go to protect the American public. And I have heard you questioned that you are in some way, and I'm going to use their words, which I don't believe is grounded in reality, that you are going to lean on local and state agents to do the job of the FBI. Might it be re-characterized more accurately in that you are partnering with local and state agencies in these areas, especially where these policies that the Democrats support wholeheartedly, in fact, they frustrate our efforts to try and beef up our laws with good criminal justice policies at every turn, and then come in here and get on you for… By the way, you've been here seven months, so I know that in the seven months you didn't break it, they broke it over the last four years. But it isn't more accurate to say that you are using the federal government and its agents and its resources to supplement and amplify law enforcement efforts in these areas, cities and states where the Democrat policies broke them.

Kash Patel (04:04:15):

It's been an integral part of my tenure to use local and state partnerships. I say it everywhere I go. We cannot do the work without partnering with state and local authorities in every single state, in every single county in this country. And why we pushed out to the field is simple mathematics. While the FBI had a bloated bureaucracy in Washington, D.C, nearly one-third of the FBI's workforce lived and worked in the national capital region. One-third of the crime doesn't happen here. So I made the simple decision to move them out, to move them out where the crime was happening in the field ,to move out field agents, to move out intel analysts, to move out program managers. And by the way, that's what they all want to do. Go out in the field and do the work. And no one's going to be punished for going out in the field and doing the work and no one's going to be punished for wanting to stay at headquarters and help,

Kash Patel (04:05:00):

… but we needed a reallocation of assets and that's what we did.

Senator Ashley Moody (04:05:04):

And from your experience, both before and now in office, have you found that many of these nonprofits have done work to undermine the stability and security of cities?

Kash Patel (04:05:22):

Those matters are very much ongoing and hopefully we can report the results soon.

Senator Ashley Moody (04:05:26):

And I don't mean just those that may have aided and abetted or supported criminal acts, those absolutely should be investigated and pursued to the fullest extent of the law, and I hope that we follow the money trail, as some of my colleagues have suggested. I also want to get your opinion about the nonprofits that are working to push, get elected and then push criminal justice policies that have made our cities and states less safe. Specifically, I'm going to push out all of the things that they espouse make the city stronger. No cash bail, try not to charge crimes, don't call people offenders or felons or rapists or drug traffickers. I can go on and on and on.

(04:06:28)
But the gist is, don't charge, when you do charge, charge as minimally as you can. Don't put people on parole or probation following incarceration. Diversion should be the rule. I mean, I can go on and on. And we're seeing these play out in cities across our nation. I am one who believes it is always important to look at how we can do things better in our criminal justice system. But what has happened is some of these groups have hijacked that good intention by so many, and used it as a way to subvert the stability of this country.

(04:07:18)
And I firmly believe when that money is traced, you're going to find it's not only going not just to policies, but it's also going to pushing and promoting criminal acts, and I believe that money and support doesn't just come from infrastructure within the US because I believe undermining our cities and this nation is something our foreign adversaries will get behind and it will show that they are behind. Is the FBI trying in its reallocation of resources to make up and help in these areas where local law enforcement is trying its best, but it's fighting an uphill battle against mayors and city council and indeed governors that promote and support and pass laws and policies that follow these weak, insane policies?

Kash Patel (04:08:15):

We go into every community where the crime rates are high. And if you look across the board, the crime rates are coming down across the country because the FBI is going in there and doing good police work. And we're not going to be dictated to by mayors or governors. We have federal law enforcement capabilities and responsibilities to our citizenry and we're executing those on every single day including rural communities and tribal lands.

Senator Ashley Moody (04:08:37):

And you are, correct me if I'm wrong, welcome and supported and enthusiastically praised by the cops that are there because they want those communities safer?

Kash Patel (04:08:49):

Well, I think the police speak for themselves and we'll let them do that at their own leisure.

Senator Ashley Moody (04:08:54):

And one of the other gas lightings that I heard was that at a time when we are trying to help them because they're having vacancy rates and they can't retain police and you are causing that. Is it in fact that police across this country because they've been defunded, they're not supported, they have groups that are continuously combating when they're trying to make the community safer. I know this because when I was the attorney general, they all wanted to come to Florida and I welcomed them with open arms. In fact, we are in increasing our ranks in Florida sometimes to the detriment of other cities and states because they can't keep them. They tried to make it sound like it was your fault that we had vacancies in these police ranks around the nation when in fact, aren't you trying to help bolster their ranks and help them because they have mayors and prosecutors and city councils and governors that won't help them?

Kash Patel (04:09:54):

That's exactly what we did. We did it in DC, we're doing it in Memphis, we're going to Chicago, Miami, St. Louis, so many other cities across the country.

Senator Ashley Moody (04:10:02):

And I'm just grateful that you are doing this and I commend you for all the numbers that I'm seeing going after the violent crime, helping make sure we are getting the criminals that came here unvetted from other nations out of this country, that you are allocating resources to those efforts. It's all important to make this a stronger, safer nation and we appreciate you being here today and making sure we're talking truth and not misinformation to the American people. Thank you.

Kash Patel (04:10:31):

Thank you, Senator.

Chuck Grassley (04:10:31):

Before Senator Schiff, I want a UC to introduce into the record a declassified Clinton annex. The Clinton annex is a declassified appendix to the Justice Department Inspector General Report about the Clinton email investigation. The annex shows that the FBI had evidence necessary to conduct "Thorough and complete investigation." But the Comey FBI failed to review the evidence at the time. After nearly a decade in the shadows this information has now come to light thanks to Dr. Patel or Director Patel. Senator Schiff.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:11:15):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Patel, during your confirmation hearing, you made several important commitments. For instance, you told Senator Coons "There will be no politicization at the FBI, there'll be no retributive actions taken by any FBI should I be confirmed as FBI director." So let me ask you very specifically, did you ever take any action to terminate or discipline an FBI agent or employee in whole or in part as retribution for being part of an investigation of Donald Trump or January 6th?

Kash Patel (04:11:49):

No.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:11:51):

You also committed, you assured Senator Blumenthal, "All FBI employees will be protected against political retribution." So you're testifying today that you played no role in the firing of even a single FBI agent for political retribution.

Kash Patel (04:12:09):

None for political retribution.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:12:11):

And if any FBI agent said you did, they would be lying. Is that your testimony?

Kash Patel (04:12:15):

I'm only speaking to my actions. Everybody is allowed to make their allegations. I have not.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:12:19):

Oh, these are allegations against you.

Kash Patel (04:12:21):

And I'm-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:12:22):

So Mr. Patel, if FBI, senior FBI agents or employees said that you were firing them for political retribution reasons because of the cases they were assigned, you're saying they would be lying? Is that your testimony?

Kash Patel (04:12:34):

Anyone that was terminated at the FBI was done so for failing to meet the standards, uphold their constitutional oath and effectuate the mission.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:12:42):

Well, by meet the standards, are you talking about meet the standards of protecting the president under any circumstance?

Kash Patel (04:12:49):

No.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:12:50):

You also guaranteed Senator Blumenthal that every FBI employee will be held to the same absolute same standard. "No one will be terminated for case assignments." Are you testifying today that you never terminated anyone at the FBI in whole or in part because of a prior case assignment?

Kash Patel (04:13:10):

No one at the FBI is terminated for case assignments alone.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:13:13):

Well, I'm asking about you Mr. Patel. Did you in whole or in part terminate anyone at the FBI because they worked on the Trump investigation or because they worked on January 6th?

Kash Patel (04:13:27):

No one at the FBI has been terminated for case assignments alone.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:13:31):

Okay. You're saying alone. Does that mean they were terminated in part because they were assigned to a January 6th case or assigned to the Mar-a-Lago case? You're being very precise here. Mr. Patel, you're saying alone. That means they were fired in part because they were assigned those cases. Is that your testimony?

Kash Patel (04:13:52):

Absolutely not. But if you want to keep putting words in my mouth, go ahead.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:13:54):

Okay, well then me ask you, let's strip away the word alone. Did you terminate or participate in any discipline of any FBI employee in whole or in part because of their work on an investigation of Donald Trump or January 6th? Yes or no?

Kash Patel (04:14:12):

Any terminations at the FBI by employees at this time-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:14:16):

No. I'm asking you a very specific question.

Kash Patel (04:14:17):

And I'm going to answer the question but you don't like the answer because it's the truth and it guts you narrative.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:14:23):

No, I want to answer to my question I don't want to answer to someone else's question. So let me just be precise and I asked for a yes or no answer. Did you ever terminate or discipline an FBI employee in whole or in part because they had been assigned or worked on an investigation of Donald Trump or January 6th? Yes or no?

Kash Patel (04:14:40):

FBIE employees are only terminated-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:14:42):

Yes or no, Mr. Patel.

Kash Patel (04:14:42):

… if they fail to uphold their oaths of office and duty [inaudible 04:14:45]

Senator Adam Schiff (04:14:44):

You're not answering my question.

Kash Patel (04:14:47):

I don't have to answer your question yes or no because you're setting up a trap so you can have a media narrative-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:14:50):

Oh no, I'm not setting up a trap-

Kash Patel (04:14:50):

… and I'm not giving it to you.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:14:53):

… unless it's true that you fired people in whole or part because-

Kash Patel (04:14:54):

People have been terminated at the FBI who failed to uphold the-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:14:58):

… they're assigned to-

Kash Patel (04:15:00):

… standards that the FBI requires them to uphold.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:15:02):

Did you tell anyone at the FBI that all FBI employees who they identified who had worked on cases against President Trump would be removed from their jobs? Did you tell that to someone at the FBI

Kash Patel (04:15:17):

Say that I would remove people for case assignments?

Senator Adam Schiff (04:15:21):

That people that were identified as having worked on cases against President Trump would be removed from their jobs. Did you tell that to someone at the FBI?

Kash Patel (04:15:30):

People are not removed for case assignments.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:15:31):

Just answer my question. Just answer my question. Did you tell that to someone-

Kash Patel (04:15:34):

People are not removed for case assignments, and I would-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:15:36):

No, you're not answering my question-

Kash Patel (04:15:37):

… and I would never tell anyone-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:15:39):

Mr. Patel, did you tell someone at the FBI that FBI employees identified as having worked on cases against President Trump would be removed from their jobs? Yes or no, did you tell someone that?

Kash Patel (04:15:51):

I would never tell anyone at the FBI that they're being removed for basically their case assignments.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:15:57):

Okay. So anyone who had said that would be lying, is that your testimony?

Kash Patel (04:16:00):

Anyone can say whatever they want.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:16:02):

No, I know, but you're saying they were a liar?

Kash Patel (04:16:04):

I'm telling you what I said.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:16:05):

Because this is in the complaint against you, Mr. Patel. So you're saying Mr. Driscoll and others are liars?

Kash Patel (04:16:11):

I'm not going to address the complaint in the ongoing litigation.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:16:12):

Okay, then let me ask you, have you ever told anyone at the FBI that the FBI tried to put the president in jail and he hasn't forgotten it, and that your job depended on the removal of agents who worked on cases against the president?

Kash Patel (04:16:25):

No.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:16:26):

Did you ever tell anyone that?

Kash Patel (04:16:26):

No.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:16:27):

Okay. Did you ever tell anyone that you knew these summary firings you were undertaking were illegal, likely illegal and that you would be sued later deposed? Did you ever tell anyone that?

Kash Patel (04:16:38):

No firings at the FBI or terminations were done for anything other than justified cause.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:16:43):

Did you ever tell anyone that Mr. Patel? Why don't you answer my question.

Kash Patel (04:16:46):

No terminations that the FBI were ever done in my tenure for anything other than failing to uphold [inaudible 04:16:51]-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:16:50):

Did you ever tell anyone that Mr. Patel? Are you willing to answer the question

Kash Patel (04:16:51):

… The FBI. I have answered it.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:16:52):

I guess you're not willing answer the question. So let me move on. Let me move on to the Epstein files. You said you're the most transparent FBI director in history, so I'm going to put you to the test. In 2024, you were asked by Glenn Beck about Epstein's Black book and you said… He asked, "Who has Jeffrey Epstein's black book." And you said, "Black book, FBI." And he said, "But who? That is, I mean, there's…" And you said, "Oh, that's under the direct control of the director of the FBI." That's what you said. Was that true Mr. Patel?

Kash Patel (04:17:35):

I'll rely on you quoting it accurately. I did that a couple of years ago.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:17:39):

No, no was it true what you represented to Mr. Beck and the president's supporters out there or were you lying?

Kash Patel (04:17:45):

No.-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:17:45):

Was it true that the Black Book Epstein's black book was in the possession of the FBI director?

Kash Patel (04:17:51):

The black book wasn't the possession of the FBI.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:17:53):

So now that you're the FBI director, you have possession of the black book, right?

Kash Patel (04:17:57):

That index has been released.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:17:59):

So you have Jeffrey Epstein's black book?

Kash Patel (04:18:01):

What is known as Jeffrey Epstein's black book has been released by us.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:18:06):

And you released it. And let me follow up on Senator Kennedy's question because he asked you, and I'll be very precise here, "You've seen most of the files who, if anyone did Epstein traffic these young women to besides himself?" And you said "Himself. There's no credible information. None. If there were, I would bring the case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals." And Kennedy, the information we have again is limited and Senator Kennedy said, "The answer is no one? And you said, "For the information we have." So is it your testimony today that in all the Epstein files that Jeffrey Epstein trafficked no one to anyone but himself? Is that your testimony Mr. Patel?

Kash Patel (04:18:56):

I never said Jeffrey Epstein didn't traffic anyone else.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:19:00):

Did he traffic any young woman to someone other than himself? That was Mr. Kennedy's question, Senator Ken's question.

Kash Patel (04:19:06):

I said the information that three administrations have had access to have made determinations that there are no investigative leads that were credible to prosecute and investigate any others? I'm specifically stating-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:19:18):

Well, I'm asking whether its-

Kash Patel (04:19:19):

… we were working on-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:19:20):

Your testimony today that-

Kash Patel (04:19:21):

Well, you just read it and I said it 10 minutes ago, so I let the record reflect my testimony.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:19:26):

I just want to make sure there's no misunderstanding, because there are victims like Virginia Guiffre who have testified otherwise, who have said otherwise. And you're telling the American people today that the Epstein list is a single name and it's Jeffrey Epstein. That's what we're to believe?

Kash Patel (04:19:45):

That's not what I'm saying, that's what you are saying. And you can say whatever you want.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:19:49):

Let me ask you this. When Todd Blanche went to interview Ghislaine Maxwell, she said, "But did I like think these guys were coming for that? I really don't. If you met Epstein, there's no way that this cast of characters of which it's extraordinary and some are in your cabinet, who you value as your co-workers and you would be with him if he was a creep or because they wanted sexual favors. A man wants sexual favors, he will find that they didn't have to come to Epstein for that." And the next question, Todd Blanche, the president's former criminal defense lawyer asked is not who in the cabinet, who are you referring to? His question is, "So when's the last time you think you were with Mr. Epstein when he got a massage?" So let me ask you, who are those cabinet members that Ghislaine Maxwell was referring to that were part of this cast of characters associated with Mr. Epstein? Who are they?

Kash Patel (04:20:51):

The Deputy Attorney General took the aggressive step that no one else did and interviewed Ms. Maxwell for two days asking-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:20:58):

No, I'm asking you, who-

Kash Patel (04:20:58):

And we released the entirety of that transcript.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:21:01):

Who are the cabinet members?

Kash Patel (04:21:01):

I do not have that transcript in front of me. You are picking a piecemeal. The American public can read the entirety of that.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:21:06):

Let me ask you one last question because you clearly won't tell us the cabinet members associated with Mr. Epstein. Let me ask you one last question. And that is, right after she gives this testimony in front of an FBI agent among others, she's transferred to a minimum security prison not suitable for a sex offender like herself. Who made that decision and why?

Kash Patel (04:21:34):

The Bureau of Prisons.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:21:35):

The Bureau of Decisions made it-

Kash Patel (04:21:37):

Prisons.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:21:38):

The Bureau of Prisons decided on their own without any consultation with Blanche or anyone else that they were going to suddenly after this interview, completely unrelated to this interview, completely unrelated to anything she said, move her to a prison not suitable for a sex offender. You want the American people to believe that. Do you think they're stupid?

Kash Patel (04:22:02):

No. I think the American people believe the truth that I'm not in the weeds on the everyday movements of inmates.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:22:07):

Oh, you're not in the weeds-

Kash Patel (04:22:08):

What I am doing is protecting this country, providing historic reform and combating-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:22:14):

The most significant witness-

Kash Patel (04:22:14):

… the weaponization of intelligence by the likes of you.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:22:16):

… in the Epstein files cover up.

Kash Patel (04:22:16):

And we have countlessly proven you to be a liar in Russia Gate, in January 6.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:22:23):

[inaudible 04:22:23] and you call that being in the weeds?

Kash Patel (04:22:23):

You are the biggest fraud to ever sit in the United States Senate.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:22:26):

This stinks to high heaven.

Kash Patel (04:22:29):

You are a disgrace to this institution and an utter coward.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:22:31):

I'm not surprised.

Kash Patel (04:22:33):

I'm not surprised that you continue-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:22:34):

And I'm not surprised that the two of you have [inaudible 04:22:35].

Kash Patel (04:22:35):

… to lie from your perch and put on a show so you can go raise money for your charade.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:22:40):

… And for good reason.

Kash Patel (04:22:42):

You are a political buffoon at best.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:22:44):

Well, you can take an internet troll-

Kash Patel (04:22:46):

Take it to the bank that the FBI is protecting this country and-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:22:46):

You can make an internet troll the FBI-

Kash Patel (04:22:47):

… The state and citizens of the California.

Senator Adam Schiff (04:22:50):

… director, will always be nothing more-

Kash Patel (04:22:50):

We are bringing historic reform [inaudible 04:22:57]-

Senator Adam Schiff (04:22:50):

… than an internet troll.

Speaker 5 (04:22:50):

Point of order [inaudible 04:22:57]

Kash Patel (04:22:57):

But all you care about is a child sex predator that was prosecuted by a prior administration and the Obama Justice Department and the Biden Justice Department did squat. And what did President Trump do? Bring new charges courageously. And what have we done?

Speaker 5 (04:23:13):

Chairman take control of the situation.

Kash Patel (04:23:14):

You said I'm the most transparent FBI director in history, 33,000 pages of information to you. I challenge you to say anything credibly to the truth. Go ahead and run to the cameras where you want to go now.

Chuck Grassley (04:23:25):

Both of you be quiet. Before I go to Senator Tillis, Without objection, I want to introduce into the record the Durham annex? The Durham annex is a declassified appendix to John Durham's report about crossfire hurricane the Durham annex contains information exposing a reported Clinton campaign plan to falsely tie President Trump to Russia. For years I've fought to assemble and publicize all the facts, heretofore unknown surrounding Durham's investigation, crossfire, hurricane, and related matters. The Durham Annex was declassified large part because of Director Patel. Senator Tillis.

Senator Thom Tillis (04:24:24):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. And Director Patel. Thank you for being here. I've actually admired the way you've tried to keep your composure over the course of this, kind of reminds me of an old forest side comic that said the floggings will continue until morale improves. The last one I just coach you on, don't take the bait because they're going to use that discussion between you and Senator Schiff as you've suggested before to raise money. Just sit down in the quiet confidence that you're doing a good job. Real quick, in less than 30 seconds, give me your resume again on why you're qualified for this position?

Kash Patel (04:25:00):

Thank you, Senator. I served as a public defender and national security prosecutor. I tried over 60 criminal trials to verdict in state and federal court. I served as the lead investigator on the House Intelligence Committee and the counter-terrorism expert there unfolding the Russia Gate investigation. I served as the head of counter-terrorism for a presidential White House. I served as a deputy director of National Intelligence as the officer director of National Intelligence [inaudible 04:25:23] overseeing our 17 intelligence agencies. I served as a chief of staff to the Department of Defense and the Secretary of Defense overseeing a $2 trillion financial equity flow and also defending the homeland and providing for our no-fail mission.

Senator Thom Tillis (04:25:37):

We could drill down in details because I've studied that record and I think you should be very proud of it. I just did that for the benefit of the liberal media that just keep referring to as a podcaster, I think. And I appreciate you giving me that resume, is a good body of work, it's why I supported your nomination so strongly when you were before this committee. Really quickly too on the events of last week and the sad death and assassination of Mr. Kirk, I seem to recall that Mr. Zinn, I think was the first person of interest he was reported to be saying, "I shot him, now shoot me." Or something to that effect. Would that have more or… And your job is to calm the tensions. There were people running all over the building, people afraid over there. Could it be that because you were in possession of some of that information that maybe you did just characterize as getting our man that maybe that's what led up to it, if those facts are correct?

Kash Patel (04:26:39):

What led me to that is to the eliminate subjects. But also we were in a period with inside of 24 hours where we didn't know who the shooter was.

Senator Thom Tillis (04:26:47):

Well, that's why I asked. Because people are forgetting that this man was reported to have been saying, "I shot him, now shoot me." They're also forgetting that he brought in an attorney and said that he'd fabricated the claim to draw attention away from the actual shooter. And he went on to get multiple charges for possessing child pornography and sexual abuse material on his phone. So I'm just saying that it just seems to me that in the moment, maybe you should have used different words, but I can't imagine that the amount of time that we've spent on that subject in the hearing today, but I think it's because they're really worried that they're another punchline to an old joke. Your work, it's working in practice, but it's not working in their theory. They haven't heard you. So it's working in practice, but not in theory.

(04:27:45)
They haven't heard you say multiple times that you've plused up FBI resources in every state. They haven't heard you when you've talked about year-over-year comparisons for results. I don't care how many people you have at HQ, as long as you keep producing those results and they're good, they need to be sustained. Now, I am a little bit concerned about the deployment of National Guard troops to dangerous cities. But you keep on mentioning something I'm going to go back to in terms of joint task forces. You also did a great job of explaining why you think you should save money and go out and fly out on an airport versus an easy trip across the Potomac to national.

(04:28:34)
I love all those responses, I'm not going to repeat them here. But I am worried that if we move in too quickly, let's say to Memphis, I should back up and say I'm a Speaker of the House in North Carolina and I would consider it a personal failure on the part of state leadership if they have to call in federal resources to do their job beyond what they do every day, and that's promoting joint task forces. I've seen ATF, DEA, FBI, I've been in the briefing rooms at three o'clock in the morning about to go and do a 55 no-knock warrants on bad people. You all do that every day and thank God that you are, it looks like we should plus it up in a few cities.

(04:29:22)
I'd rather use the money to deploy National Guard to just continue to leverage what you're already doing well. And I compliment you because I've got to believe it's a lot of these joint task forces that have increased the apprehension and charging rates. So thank you for that. But do you agree that at the end of the day, if we're going to have a sustained impact on crime, whether it's Memphis or any other city, that we've really got to enable, empower and continue to support the men and women on the ground there every single day?

Kash Patel (04:29:53):

100%.

Senator Thom Tillis (04:29:54):

Thank you. I think that your cost-benefit mine needs to go into, if I'm about to deploy this many National Guardsmen to a city, what does that cost and what would that look like if we were plowing that cost of deployment into ongoing, I believe joint task force, which are working very well, they're working well in North Carolina. So I'd like you to look at it now. I'm going to move on. The Safer Communities Act. Can I get your commitment to get an update, maybe we could even take a trip out to West Virginia to see how we're doing an extraordinary job of NICS background checks? People are getting them and record time, but we are taking a few guns away from people that probably shouldn't be able to buy that day. Would you agree with that characterization?

Kash Patel (04:30:40):

I would love to have you out and anyone else in this day as to West Virginia to see that work.

Senator Thom Tillis (04:30:43):

I'd like to bring some of my colleagues to see it's working. We had people on my side of the aisle saying it was going to be awful, it was going to result in mass confiscation of guns. Not true. They were wrong. This bill's making a difference. I also want to talk about the behavioral health and other components in granting. I know in North Carolina things are going well. I want to make sure that that flow's going out there because the tragic events in North Carolina and Charlotte, the stabbing, I spoke with one of the family members yesterday, are I think that we have to recognize that we have magistrates that have a revolving door policy, no doubt about that. And they should be held accountable if they're releasing dangerous people. But I also think that some of the problem is that we simply don't have a place to send people, particularly with respect to behavioral health. We have got to continue to… Every law enforcement officer I've ever spoken with says, look, I've got law enforcement officers seconded to an emergency room because I've got somebody with no place to send them. I don't have a bed upstairs I can send them to, I don't have a behavioral health facility. We've got to provide more ways to detain people that are a risk to themselves and a risk for the community. And I really do believe Safer Communities Act is a good framework for doing that. That's only a comment. Section 702 is going to come up in April of next year for renewal. Do you believe it should be eliminated and not reauthorized?

Kash Patel (04:32:17):

No, sir. Needs to be reauthorized.

Senator Thom Tillis (04:32:18):

Can I also get your commitment maybe to come back over and review some of the controls that are in place and other things? So hopefully we won't have the drama leading up to April, we can actually come here and get consensus on why you've got the checks and balances in place and why we should do it. Just remove any chance that we're going to run into that Cliff narrative next year. Can I get your commitment on doing that Mr. Patel?

Kash Patel (04:32:41):

You have it, sir.

Senator Thom Tillis (04:32:42):

Thank you. I want to talk very briefly on, and the chairman's give me a gavel, but I promise not to go over more than two minutes, but that's why I chose to be last so I could have this discussion and actually get to some facts versus agendas and click-bait that we'll almost certainly see going forward. Tell me a little bit about the rationale behind the change in stance in recruiting? I also understand there may be a reduction in the academy timeline. Just give me some thinking about where you are on recruiting, retention, training, et cetera?

Kash Patel (04:33:17):

Simple. So recruitment is through the roof. We've doubled up month over month. Our applicants to be 1811s, our federal agents, Intel analysts. So the recruitment is going wonderful. What we have to do is figure out a way to get creative because the BFTC timeline is an 18 to 20 week program. And what we've done to address the openings we have for 1811 brick agents is we opened it up to the interagency and said, Hey, do you at Secret Service or DEA or ATF want to come over? You guys went through FLETC, you guys were cops or military officers, your law enforcement.

(04:33:48)
So we created a shortened bridge program of six weeks at Quantico that if you want to come over and be an FBI agent, you can do so. There's transfers all the time. We just made it easier. And we're also recruiting police officers who might not have a college degree, but in my opinion, that does not disqualify them from serving our community. So we're welcoming them. It's a rigorous application process. It's just one item, but we are changing the timelines based on the needs of the country, but not jeopardizing quality.

Senator Thom Tillis (04:34:15):

I'm glad you mentioned that. I heard someone almost a throwaway line that you were hiring people without a college degree. Most of them have had basic law enforcement training, all the kinds of certifications. You're talking to somebody who didn't achieve my four-year degree until I was 37. I'd like to think that I brought some things to the table. And I think that those people, the beer comment, I think it was inappropriate for somebody considering this to think that they're a lesser person because they don't have a piece of paper.

(04:34:51)
I wanted to get back to the last thing that I will talk about, I'll follow up with some questions for the record. Thank you incidentally for consistently being responsive to any inquiries I've made to you. But on the Kirk shooting, I do believe that that Senator Schmitt's numbers are right. There seems to be a disproportionate number of voices on the left that are celebrating the assassination of a CEO or celebrating the assassination of someone, in Mr. Kirk's case that I disagreed with probably about half of his positions, but I felt like it was a good voice in engaging young people. And that's a start, as long as we can do it civilly.

(04:35:44)
And then I also just went back online because I've hammered on this committee multiple times. I just went online and I found in Pinterest that even today you could order a t-shirt that says "ACAB 13.12." Which translates to all cops are bastards. Or if you don't like that shirt, you can go get an "F The Cop" shirt at the same website, A location on Pinterest. There is clearly a problem with some of the voices of the left that I'm not necessarily saying any members of Congress, that need to tamp it down. Having said that, within 24 hours of Mr. Kirk's shooting, we had the guy that does the podcast for the War Room and another guy who's denied the Sandy Hook shootings say, we're at war.

(04:36:34)
Now how on Earth, and I do believe it's a smaller number, but it's a number that has an influence. How on earth are we de-escalating the situation and with the tensions as highest they were last week with going out and saying, we're at war. I'm not asking you to respond to this question. I'm just saying that there are people out here on our side of the aisle that still need to look in the mirror, even if you agree that it's a lower number, bad is bad, no matter how many numbers they are. And that kind of rhetoric and that kind of mobilization makes your job more difficult and puts us in a position where we're not being as productive as you want the FBI and state and local law enforcement to be. I'm finished.

(04:37:19)
I just want to thank you for your service. I want to thank you for your concise answers, and I am thoroughly impressed with the fact that you have sat in that chair for over four hours without a break. So with that, on behalf of the chair, I want to thank you for being here today. And also, I assume, are we leaving the record open for any period of time? For one week? The record will be open, left open for one week so that you may have questions for the record. Mr. Patel, thank you for being here.

Kash Patel (04:37:52):

Thank you. Mr. Chairman.

Senator Thom Tillis (04:37:53):

Meetings adjourned.