IAEA Chief Says Nuclear Accident ‘Entirely Possible’ at Ukraine Plant Occupied by Russia Transcript

The Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant remains caught on the frontline of the war in Ukraine. This week, the Director General of the UN’s Nuclear Agency visited the plant in Ukraine’s south to assess its stability and the damage caused by Russia’s occupation. Nick Schifrin spoke to Rafael Grossi about why he’s no longer calling for a denuclearized zone around the plant and how conditions could become dangerous.

Across the front line, escorted by Russian military police, the world’s top nuclear watchdog arrived at Europe’s largest nuclear plant to try and prevent nuclear disaster. The Russians occupying the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant gave IAEA Director General Rafael Grossi, a tour, and in a statement aired by Russian tv, Grossi thanked them.

I think it’s important that we continue our dialogue.

But earlier this month, Grossi was alarmed.

This cannot go on. I am astonished by the complacency. Yes, the complacency. What are we doing to prevent this from happening?

This is the threat of meltdown. Russian forces seized the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant more than a year ago. Ever since it’s been in the crossfire, buildings have been damaged. The electricity lines that keep the nuclear reactors cool have been cut six times forcing the use of emergency generators, and today there’s only one remaining power line.

How are you?

After meeting Grossi earlier this week, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy called Russia’s occupation of Zaporizhzhya radiation blackmail.

Holding a nuclear power plant hostage for more than a year is the worst thing that could happen in the history of the European and global nuclear energy sector.

The possibility or the probability, should I say, of an accident or action that could impact the plant has increased.

I spoke to Grossi yesterday as he left Ukraine on a train.

On both sides of the front, there is a bigger, much larger number of troops and heavy military equipment. There are constant detonations and explosions near in the facility. I had to cross minefield myself to get there, which was not the case before. At this point in time, anything is possible. Attacks from outside, sabotage from inside.

What can the IAEA do if, for example, Russia were to leave the plant quickly during any kind of Ukrainian counteroffensive or if Russia were to use the plant somehow as leverage during a Ukrainian counter offensive?

This goes to the heart of what I’m trying to do. Initially, we were working towards the establishment of some sort of zone to protect the plant. With this increased level of combat and military activity, you will not find any military commander or officer that is going to tell you, “I’m not going there, or I am going here or there.” So what I’m focusing is on the things that shouldn’t be done. For example, don’t shoot at the plant. This is achievable or another very important commitment, don’t use the plant as a military base. What I want is everybody to agree with me, agreeing with each other at this point is impossible.

Aren’t the Russians already using the plant as a military base?

Well, I am talking to them and I am sure that if we get to some form of agreement between them and me and on the other side with Ukraine and myself, we’re going to be able to avoid this.

The Russians have troops inside the plant of Zaporizhzhya, is that correct?

There are security forces, and if we get to an agreement, this will also be addressed. So I’m trying to be very prudent here because I don’t want to put anybody in a difficulty or to point fingers. My goal here is to protect the plant. That is my goal, to prevent a nuclear accident with catastrophic radiological consequences, which at this moment is entirely possible.

Ukrainian officials are disappointed the IAEA has failed to evict Russian troops or prevented Russians from abusing the Ukrainian workers. Have the Russians killed anyone at the plant? Have they tortured anyone? Have they threatened anyone? Last September, we spoke to one of the 4,600 Ukrainian workers that continue to operate the plant down from 11,000. He agreed to speak to us if we kept him anonymous.

Yes, there is official information about injured employees, about the victims. Some served in the armed forces of Ukraine before. Some openly demonstrated their pro Ukrainian position. This was enough for the Russians to trap those people in the basement and torture them over several weeks.

One of the pillars of nuclear safety is that the staff should be able to work without pressure, without necessary stress.

And are they today able to work without pressure, without stress?

No. There is a lot of pressure. There is a lot of pressure. And I wouldn’t say even without them being subject to a specific act of pressure, the whole situation is not sustainable.

Rafael Grossi, Director General of the IAEA. Thank you very much.

I thank you very much.