Lesley Stahl: (00:00)
Are you ready for some tough questions?
Donald Trump: (00:02)
You’re going to be fair.
Lesley Stahl: (00:03)
Are you sure I’m going to be fair?
Donald Trump: (00:04)
Just be fair.
Lesley Stahl: (00:06)
But last time I remember you saying to me, “Bring it on. Bring it on here.”
Donald Trump: (00:13)
No, I’m not looking for that. I’m looking for fairness. That’s all.
Lesley Stahl: (00:13)
You’re going to get fairness.
Donald Trump: (00:13)
Yeah.
Lesley Stahl: (00:13)
But you’re okay with some [inaudible 00:00:16]?
Donald Trump: (00:13)
No, I’m not.
Lesley Stahl: (00:18)
You’re not okay with tough questions?
Donald Trump: (00:19)
Well, I’m going to be fair. You don’t ask Biden tough questions.
Lesley Stahl: (00:22)
Me? I don’t interview Biden.
Donald Trump: (00:22)
It’s terrible. It’s terrible.
Lesley Stahl: (00:24)
I only interview you.
Donald Trump: (00:28)
You know that. Okay. Are you ready?
Lesley Stahl: (00:29)
You ready? Everybody ready?
Speaker 1: (00:31)
We’re up.
Lesley Stahl: (00:32)
Okay. Can I start-
Speaker 2: (00:34)
Let’s do one second. Just close the door.
Speaker 1: (00:35)
[inaudible 00:00:37]. It should be fine.
Lesley Stahl: (00:35)
Am I okay?
Speaker 3: (00:35)
You’re good, you’re good.
Lesley Stahl: (00:35)
Okay. I’m ready. So we have the pandemic on your watch. We’ve had racial strife. We’ve had looting. Why do you want this job? Why do you want to be president again?
Donald Trump: (00:53)
Because we’ve done a great job and it’s not finished yet, and when I finish, this country will be in a position like it hasn’t been maybe ever. The economy is already roaring back and other people aren’t going to bring it back. Certainly the person that we’re dealing with is not going to bring it back. They’re going to raise taxes. They’re going to take away your second amendment. They’re going to do things that nobody would even believe. It’s radical. There’s never been anything like it. No, we are-
Lesley Stahl: (01:20)
Let me ask you-
Donald Trump: (01:21)
… positioned like never before. We’re going to have a fantastic year next year.
Lesley Stahl: (01:25)
Let me ask you what you think the biggest domestic priority is for you right now.
Donald Trump: (01:33)
Well, ultimately let me, and I’ll tell you, it was happening. We created the greatest economy in the history of our country and the other side was having-
Lesley Stahl: (01:41)
You know that’s not true.
Donald Trump: (01:42)
It is totally true.
Lesley Stahl: (01:43)
No.
Donald Trump: (01:44)
Best unemployment numbers, best employment numbers, 160 million people working, highest stock market price. You wouldn’t say that to Biden, what you just said to me. If he had it, you would never say that to Biden. We had the best stock market price ever, that we’re getting close to that price again. We had the best … Everything was the best. Our companies were doing better than they’ve ever done before. You cannot even think about talking about that.
Lesley Stahl: (02:09)
Well, I’m not going to fact check you.
Donald Trump: (02:13)
Well, you don’t have to fact check me.
Lesley Stahl: (02:13)
I’m not going to do that.
Donald Trump: (02:15)
I mean, excuse me. The stock market was at its highest, the unemployment numbers for African-Americans, for Asian Americans, for Hispanic Americans, for everybody were the best. Virtually every number was the best. We had the best economy ever. And what was happening is things were coming together-
Lesley Stahl: (02:32)
Well, I asked you what your single biggest priority was.
Donald Trump: (02:34)
Well, I’m going to say that. And the other side was starting to call, let’s get together. There was going to be unity. And then we got hit with the plague and we had to do it again. And we closed it up and I saved millions of lives. Millions of lives we saved. And now the economy’s growing again at record numbers. 11.4 million people employed in the last short period of time.
Lesley Stahl: (03:00)
But what’s the priority? I mean, those are all good things, but what do you want to solve?
Donald Trump: (03:04)
The priority now is to get back to normal, get back to where we were, to have the economy rage and be great with jobs and everybody be happy. And that’s where we’re going and that’s where we’re heading.
Lesley Stahl: (03:16)
And who is our biggest foreign adversary?
Donald Trump: (03:20)
I would say China. They’re an adversary. They’re a competitor. They’re a foe in many ways, but they’re an adversary. I think what happened was disgraceful. It should never have happened. They should never have allowed this plague to get out of China and go throughout the world. 188 countries. It should never have happened.
Lesley Stahl: (03:42)
So they’re-
Speaker 3: (03:42)
Lesley, one second, please.
Donald Trump: (03:47)
What’s wrong?
Speaker 3: (03:49)
The flag is wobbling I think because it’s under those vents, perhaps behind you, Tom?
Speaker 1: (03:53)
His hair’s coming down a little bit.
Donald Trump: (04:01)
It doesn’t look nice blowing in the wind?
Lesley Stahl: (04:01)
No, it’s distracting. I can see it.
Speaker 3: (04:02)
Yes, run the arrow. I think we’re better, guys.
Lesley Stahl: (04:04)
Okay, I’m going with or without you guys.
Speaker 3: (04:04)
It’s not moving.
Donald Trump: (04:04)
Let’s go.
Lesley Stahl: (04:11)
Okay. At this stage four years ago, you were behind in the polls and you went out and pulled it up, but this time you have kind of a double migraine. You have unemployment claims going up. You have COVID cases going up. I mean, it’s like the gods have suddenly decided to conspire against you.
Donald Trump: (04:31)
I don’t think so at all, no. I think we’ve done a great job with COVID, and we’ve hired-
Lesley Stahl: (04:35)
Yeah, but the numbers are going up though.
Donald Trump: (04:39)
Excuse me. 11.4 million people. Why? Because the last report was just a little bit off?
Lesley Stahl: (04:40)
No.
Donald Trump: (04:41)
And this is without-
Lesley Stahl: (04:42)
No. Sir, excuse me. Cases are up in about 40 states.
Donald Trump: (04:42)
Okay. You know why cases are up also? Because we do more testing. If we didn’t do testing, cases would be way down.
Lesley Stahl: (04:52)
Yeah. But why are you saying they’re not up? You’re saying things that people can see-
Donald Trump: (04:57)
No, what I’m saying to you, Lesley, is the following. We do more testing than any country in the world by far. Second is India with 1.5 billion people. We do more testing. If we did half the testing, we’d have half the cases. If we did no testing, like many countries, we would have very few cases. Because we do so much testing, the fake news media loves to say cases are up. The fact is we’ve done a very, very good job.
Lesley Stahl: (05:23)
Cases are up.
Donald Trump: (05:23)
We have done … That’s right because we’re doing so much testing.
Lesley Stahl: (05:27)
Will you at least say cases are up?
Donald Trump: (05:30)
Yes, cases are up because we are doing tremendous testing and we’re finding where there’s a problem. Testing is a good thing, but it’s also very misleading.
Lesley Stahl: (05:40)
When you’re out there saying we’ve turned the corner, this thing is disappearing and people can see-
Donald Trump: (05:43)
That’s right. We have turned the corner now. We have turned the corner.
Lesley Stahl: (05:46)
… people can see cases going up all over, in the Midwest, in the mountain west, record numbers of cases in some states.
Donald Trump: (05:53)
We have turned the corner. We understand the disease. We understand the elderly and we’re taking care of them at a level like nobody’s ever taken care of the elderly, especially the elderly with diabetes problems, heart problems. We are taking care of them like nobody’s ever taken care of them. We also understand youth, 99.9%. As an example, Barron had it and it was gone in no time. It was just like he had it, it was gone, hardly knew he even had it. So we are taking care of our people, but we’ve done a great job with the ventilators, with the equipment, with stocking governors that were not stocked. We made a lot of governors look very good that shouldn’t look good, and that’s okay with me.
Lesley Stahl: (06:35)
Okay. Let me ask you something about suburban women.
Donald Trump: (06:42)
Yeah.
Lesley Stahl: (06:42)
You said the other day to suburban woman, “Will you please like me, please, please.”
Donald Trump: (06:44)
Oh, I didn’t say that. You know, that’s so misleading, the way … I say jokingly suburban women, you should love me because I’m giving you security and I got rid of the worst regulation. See, the way you said that is why people think of you and everyone else as fake news. I said kiddingly, suburban women, you should love me. I got rid of a regulation that would bring low income housing into suburbia that would destroy suburbia. And I said that in a joking way. The way you have it, it’s like I’m begging. I’m kidding. Play it. And I’m kidding. That is such a misleading question, Lesley.
Lesley Stahl: (07:24)
But you’re behind with suburban women in the polls.
Donald Trump: (07:29)
I doubt it. I doubt it. I really doubt it.
Lesley Stahl: (07:30)
One of the things-
Donald Trump: (07:31)
I’m saving suburbia. He’s going to destroy suburbia. He’s got a regulation, which I terminated, that he would put back and even worse that will destroy, that will bring low income housing projects into suburbia. And women understand that. And they’ve really learned about it over the last two, three weeks. I terminated the worst regulation you could possibly have. It’s gone, and suburban women appreciate it. They want security. They want safety. Look, I’ve been endorsed by almost every police department, almost every law enforcement group in the country. He’s been endorsed by almost nobody. Suburban women want security.
Lesley Stahl: (08:13)
The polls show that you’re behind with them, and one of the reasons, let me say it’s-
Donald Trump: (08:17)
You’re not looking at recent polls.
Lesley Stahl: (08:19)
One of the reasons is that they don’t feel you’re being upfront about the pandemic. And when you say we’re rounding the corner and you tell Bob Woodward that-
Donald Trump: (08:35)
We are rounding the corner. We are rounding the corner.
Lesley Stahl: (08:35)
… you deliberately like to downplay this-
Donald Trump: (08:35)
We are rounding the corner.
Lesley Stahl: (08:35)
… and deliberately downplay it-
Donald Trump: (08:35)
We’re rounding the corner. We’re doing well. We’re doing well. We understand the disease. I saved millions of people. 2.2 million people were supposed to die. You go back and you look at your models, 2.2 million people. We saved tremendous numbers of people. Plus I closed it very early from China, heavily infected, and even from Europe heavily infected, we’ve done a good job. We’ve done maybe a great job. What we haven’t done a good job on is convincing people like you because you’re really quite impossible to convince, but that’s okay. And the economy now is coming back and it’s coming back very strongly. And people see that, Lesley.
Lesley Stahl: (09:16)
They are more unemployment claims, and the economy has kind of stalled over-
Donald Trump: (09:22)
Lesley, we just picked up 11.4 million jobs. It’s the largest number in the history of our country in a short period of time.
Lesley Stahl: (09:29)
But what about these unemployment claims going up? I mean, how can you ignore that?
Donald Trump: (09:32)
Lesley, you didn’t hear me. We just picked up 11.4 million jobs in a short period of time. It’s the largest number in the history of our country.
Lesley Stahl: (09:41)
Are you denying that the unemployment claims have gone up? Is that not what happened?
Donald Trump: (09:45)
What I’m saying is we got hit by something, not my fault, not your fault. We got hit from something that came out of China. I got stuck with it. And let me tell you, before it happened, we were doing so good and now we’re going to be doing, and we are, we are doing good.
Donald Trump: (10:03)
And that we’re going to be doing, and we are, we are doing good. But look at, as an example, last week, a few days ago, Gallup did a poll. 56% of the people said that they’d better off now during a pandemic, then they were doing Obama and Biden, 56%. It was a record number, right?
Lesley Stahl: (10:24)
Yes, but I want to know if you’re, what, ignoring the fact that there are unemployment claims-
Donald Trump: (10:30)
No, I don’t ignore it.
Lesley Stahl: (10:33)
Okay, what are you saying about that?
Donald Trump: (10:33)
What I’m saying is that we got hit with somebody, it’s not our fault. We got hit-
Lesley Stahl: (10:38)
I know what are you-
Donald Trump: (10:38)
… and we’ve done a good job, not a good job. We’ve done a great job. Remember that number, a very important number, 56% say they’re happier now than they were four years ago under Biden and Obama, right? I’ll put his name first, Biden and Obama. And they didn’t have a pandemic. Although, Biden did have a big problem with H1N1, which he says in reverse, with the H1N1, swine flu and it was a disaster. And his own chief of staff said it was a total disaster. They didn’t know what they were doing.
Lesley Stahl: (11:16)
But can we go back for one second to the pandemic? Because you called Dr. Fauci and other health officials, idiots-
Donald Trump: (11:26)
Dr. Fauci, when did I call him an idiot?
Lesley Stahl: (11:29)
And I’m wondering if think-
Donald Trump: (11:33)
When did I call him an idiot?
Lesley Stahl: (11:34)
You called him an idiot. I wonder if-
Donald Trump: (11:35)
Well, he’s been wrong a lot. I like him, but he’s been wrong.
Lesley Stahl: (11:37)
I wonder if you think that masks don’t work?
Donald Trump: (11:44)
Well, Dr. Fauci originally said, it’s a very complex subject.
Lesley Stahl: (11:46)
What do you say, do you say-
Donald Trump: (11:49)
Let me just tell you, you mentioned … Dr. Fauci said, “Don’t wear masks.” Then he said, wear them.
Lesley Stahl: (11:54)
What do you say?
Donald Trump: (11:54)
I say that … I feel masks possibly work, but certainly you want to stay away a certain distance, socially distance, et cetera. But I would say a mask works and I have nothing against masks. And I tell people to wear masks. I have no problem.
Lesley Stahl: (12:12)
Tell me then about these rallies you’ve been having.
Donald Trump: (12:14)
A lot of people are wearing masks and they’re outside.
Lesley Stahl: (12:17)
A lot of people aren’t, I’m watching all these people jammed in together and I’m seeing most of them without masks. And I’m wondering the message that you’re sending with these pictures coming [crosstalk 00:02:28]-
Donald Trump: (12:28)
Take a look. Yesterday, we were in Arizona, record setting rallies, numbers of people like nobody’s seen before. Many, many masks, I watched.
Lesley Stahl: (12:36)
[inaudible 00:02:40].
Donald Trump: (12:36)
What, what?
Lesley Stahl: (12:38)
You used to have bigger rallies.
Donald Trump: (12:41)
No, these are much bigger than I ever had.
Lesley Stahl: (12:42)
I don’t want to [inaudible 00:12:43]. Tell me about the masks-
Donald Trump: (12:43)
You’re so negative, you’re so negative. These are the biggest rallies we’ve ever had. You just come in here with a negative attitude. These are the biggest rallies we’ve ever had. We’re having numbers like we’ve never had.
Lesley Stahl: (12:55)
Tell me about the masks.
Donald Trump: (12:56)
There is a more … excuse me, no, but you made a statement. There’s more enthusiasm right now for us than we ever had before, ever. And you will see that in a short period of time.
Lesley Stahl: (13:10)
Well, what about the masks?
Donald Trump: (13:10)
A lot of people are wearing masks. I mean, I looked yesterday, a lot of people were and it’s outdoor. They want it outdoor and we’re doing it outdoors.
Lesley Stahl: (13:18)
I can’t believe after what happened in the Rose Garden here at the announcement and all the people getting sick, that you are not being more strongly encouraging about wearing masks on the grounds.
Donald Trump: (13:30)
I tell people to wear masks.
Lesley Stahl: (13:31)
But you don’t.
Donald Trump: (13:32)
Lesley, we hand out thousands of masks.
Lesley Stahl: (13:35)
But you look out and they’re not wearing them. And you don’t say, please, wear a mask.
Donald Trump: (13:41)
Well, have you been looking yesterday, take a look yesterday in Arizona, everybody behind me had a mask on.
Lesley Stahl: (13:44)
But I’m looking at other places. I’m looking at Wisconsin, which is a hotspot right now.
Donald Trump: (13:50)
Right, right. A lot of people had masks and it was outside.
Lesley Stahl: (13:53)
A lot people without masks. And you don’t get up there and say, look, come on [crosstalk 00:13:56].
Donald Trump: (13:57)
Okay. What’s your next question, Lesley? We’re outside. The rallies are bigger than they’ve ever been. There’s more enthusiasm than we’ve ever had. There has never been anything like what you’re witnessing now and you’ll see that soon.
Lesley Stahl: (14:10)
Okay, but I’m asking you about masks not about the size of your rallies. I’m asking [crosstalk 00:14:17].
Donald Trump: (14:17)
You commented on the size of the rallies.
Lesley Stahl: (14:18)
I know but I’m asking [crosstalk 00:04:19].
Donald Trump: (14:18)
You said they’re not as big as they used to be, and I’m telling you they’re much bigger.
Lesley Stahl: (14:22)
Okay, but I’m asking you now about the masks. Why aren’t you getting up there and saying, “I have it, I don’t want you to get it, so please put your mask on.”
Donald Trump: (14:31)
Lesley, we handed out masks to everybody that comes to the rally. We tell them to wear the masks.
Lesley Stahl: (14:36)
But you don’t and they love you-
Donald Trump: (14:38)
Oh, I don’t know, Lesley.
Lesley Stahl: (14:38)
If they heard you say it-
Donald Trump: (14:41)
I have no problem, no problem.
Lesley Stahl: (14:44)
They love you, they would pay attention-
Donald Trump: (14:44)
Next question, go ahead.
Lesley Stahl: (14:44)
.,. to anything you say.
Donald Trump: (14:48)
I hope you’re right. Go ahead.
Lesley Stahl: (14:51)
Okay, this is important. Okay, I’ll ask you another health question, okay?
Donald Trump: (14:58)
Go ahead.
Lesley Stahl: (15:01)
You promised that there was going to be a new health package, healthcare plan.
Donald Trump: (15:06)
Yeah.
Lesley Stahl: (15:08)
You said that it was going to be great. You said that it’s ready.
Donald Trump: (15:12)
It will be.
Lesley Stahl: (15:12)
It’s going to be ready, it’s all ready. It’ll be here in two weeks. It’s going to be like nothing you’ve ever seen before. And of course, we hadn’t seen it. So why didn’t you develop the health plan?
Donald Trump: (15:23)
It is developed. It is fully developed. It’s going to be announced very soon.
Lesley Stahl: (15:27)
When [crosstalk 00:15:28].
Donald Trump: (15:28)
When we see what happens with Obamacare, which is not good. And when we see what happens with Obamacare.
Lesley Stahl: (15:34)
But if the Supreme Court-
Donald Trump: (15:36)
And it will be much less expensive than Obamacare, which is a disaster, and it will take care of people with pre-existing conditions.
Lesley Stahl: (15:45)
But your plan was to repeal and replace. And if the Supreme Court finishes Obamacare, there will be all these people stranded because there’s no replacement.
Donald Trump: (15:54)
No, they’re won’t. We will make a deal and we will have a great healthcare plan-
Lesley Stahl: (15:59)
But you keep saying that.
Donald Trump: (15:59)
… with less expensive, less expensive, and a much better plan.
Lesley Stahl: (16:04)
Why haven’t we seen it?
Donald Trump: (16:06)
You have seen it. I’ve been putting out pieces all over the place and we actually have plans. And we have 180 million people right now have a plan. And you haven’t been watching, you haven’t been watching.
Lesley Stahl: (16:22)
But what about the people with pre-existing conditions? If the Supreme Court-
Donald Trump: (16:27)
Are protected, will be totally protected.
Lesley Stahl: (16:29)
How?
Donald Trump: (16:30)
They’ll be protected, Lesley.
Lesley Stahl: (16:32)
How?
Donald Trump: (16:32)
I mean, the people with pre-existing conditions are going to be protected-
Lesley Stahl: (16:35)
How?
Donald Trump: (16:36)
… as they are now.
Lesley Stahl: (16:37)
How?
Donald Trump: (16:38)
In any plan we do, they will be protected [crosstalk 00:16:42]. Lesley, people with pre-existing conditions would be always protected, always.
Lesley Stahl: (16:49)
But if the Supreme Court ends this with Obamacare-
Donald Trump: (16:55)
We’re going to have to see what happens, it’s got a ways to go. I mean, we’ll see what happens. I think it’ll end … I hope that they end it. It’ll be so good if they end it.
Lesley Stahl: (17:04)
If they end it-
Donald Trump: (17:05)
Because we will come up with a plan, which will be-
Lesley Stahl: (17:08)
Will?
Donald Trump: (17:08)
Yeah, we will.
Lesley Stahl: (17:09)
But you said it was all ready.
Donald Trump: (17:11)
We have large sections of it already done. And we’ve already come up with plans, take a look at your various secretaries, various plans that we’ve already come up with. And also, a large part of this country has private health insurance, 180 million people. And under that, Biden, he doesn’t have any clue, but under that 180 million people will lose their health care. And they’ll go to socialized medicine, and that’s not going to be acceptable. 180 million people Lesley, will go to socialized medicine. It won’t be … it will not acceptable.
Lesley Stahl: (17:50)
And if the Affordable Care Act is determined to be unconstitutional-
Donald Trump: (17:53)
Then we’re going to have a new, and we’re going to have new and it’s going to be very good. And it’s going to-
Lesley Stahl: (17:59)
Yeah but you keep saying that and don’t show it to us. And so people with pre-existing conditions-
Donald Trump: (18:01)
We’ve come with many plans, Lesley, and they’re already in existence. I’ll tell you what, after this interview, I will show you short-term, longer term. I’ll show you different plans. We’ve come up with many plans. And we got the individual mandate out. The individual mandate is gone. That was the worst part of Obamacare, that’s gone.
Lesley Stahl: (18:23)
Okay. All of that, I grant you all of that. But if there’s no plan, a replacement plan-
Donald Trump: (18:33)
Right.
Lesley Stahl: (18:34)
… and the Supreme Court says that Obamacare goes away, people with pre-existing conditions will be stranded and that’s just a fact.
Donald Trump: (18:41)
No, no. It’s wrong.
Lesley Stahl: (18:43)
No.
Donald Trump: (18:44)
It’s wrong. A new plan will happen-
Lesley Stahl: (18:46)
But will-
Donald Trump: (18:46)
And we won’t do anything … will and is. We won’t do anything and no plan, unless we have pre-existing conditions covered. And the individual mandate, which you don’t want to mention was terminated. It was terminated. Individual mandate was terminated. That is the biggest thing that’s happened. And that actually makes Obamacare not Obamacare. Because under that, you would pay a fortune for the privilege of not having to pay for bad health insurance. We got it terminated, terminated through the legislature, signed, done. That means Obamacare is no longer Obamacare. We got rid of the most important element of Obamacare. And it was the worst element of Obamacare that nobody wanted, nobody liked. So Obamacare essentially was terminated as we know it. Now we have the carcass of Obamacare-
Lesley Stahl: (19:36)
Well, part of the carcass was pre-existing-
Donald Trump: (19:38)
We managed it well. Lesley, we’ve managed it well. I had a choice to make, when we got rid of the individual mandate, nobody believed we could do that and I did it. I had a choice to make. Do I manage the remainder of whatever’s left of this whole thing called Obamacare, which is no good, do I manage it well or manage it badly? If I manage it well, politically, maybe that’s not good [crosstalk 00:20:03]. I decide-
Donald Trump: (20:03)
Politically, maybe that’s not good. I decided to manage it well.
Lesley Stahl: (20:05)
You want to leave it.
Donald Trump: (20:07)
No, I don’t want to leave it, I want to see what happens. Here’s what happens. We may be stuck with it if we lose in the Supreme Court, in which case, we’re wasting a lot of words. If we win, we will come up with a much… And we will do that. Come up with a much better healthcare for much less money, always protecting people with pre-existing conditions.
Lesley Stahl: (20:32)
Are you going to say that you didn’t say this? Because I saw you say this.
Donald Trump: (20:35)
No, you’re only trying to… I wish you would interview Joe Biden like you interview me. It would be so good. You know what?
Lesley Stahl: (20:42)
You need this, I thought.
Donald Trump: (20:44)
I don’t mind it, I don’t mind it. But when I watch him walk out of his store, he’s in the midst of a scandal, his family is corrupt, okay? He’s corrupt. He’s a corrupt politician. And he’s walking with ice cream. And the question the media asks him, what kind of ice cream? What flavor ice cream do you have? And he’s in the midst of a scandal.
Lesley Stahl: (21:04)
He’s not. He’s not.
Donald Trump: (21:06)
Of course he is, Lesley.
Lesley Stahl: (21:08)
Come on.
Donald Trump: (21:08)
Of course he is. See that?
Lesley Stahl: (21:10)
Let the Senate Committee-
Donald Trump: (21:12)
You’re like big tech, you protecting him. And everyone is, except for a few people.
Lesley Stahl: (21:19)
You’re taking something that was investigated-
Donald Trump: (21:22)
Lesley, let me ask you. You think it’s okay for the Mayor of Moscow’s wife to give him millions and millions of dollars, three and a half million dollars, to give his family three and a half? Do you think it’s okay for Hunter Biden to say that we’re giving the big guy 10% of this massive amount of money they’re taking? Do you think it’s okay for all of these horrible things that you’ve seen, where they’re getting hundreds of thousands, and millions of dollars, where China gives them a billion and a half dollars to manage, the family, a billion and a half dollars, and then he’s supposed to negotiate? Let me tell you, it’s the second biggest scandal. The biggest scandal was when they spied on my campaign. They spied on my campaign.
Lesley Stahl: (22:06)
There’s no real evidence of that.
Donald Trump: (22:07)
Of course there is. Is it’s all over the place. Lesley, they spied on my campaign and they got caught.
Lesley Stahl: (22:14)
Can I say something? This is 60 Minutes and we can’t put on things we can’t verify.
Donald Trump: (22:21)
You won’t put it up because it’s bad for Biden.
Lesley Stahl: (22:22)
We can’t put on things we can’t verify.
Donald Trump: (22:24)
Lesley, they spied on my campaign.
Lesley Stahl: (22:27)
Well, we can’t verify that.
Donald Trump: (22:27)
It’s been totally verified. Just go down and get the papers. They spied of my campaign, they got caught.
Lesley Stahl: (22:34)
No.
Donald Trump: (22:35)
And then they went much further than that, and they got caught. And you will see that, Lesley. And you know that, but you just don’t want to put it on the air.
Lesley Stahl: (22:42)
As a matter of fact, I don’t know that.
Donald Trump: (22:44)
Okay.
Lesley Stahl: (22:45)
And you’re out there-
Donald Trump: (22:45)
So why don’t you get back to your interview and let’s go.
Lesley Stahl: (22:49)
All right. So you said in the briefing room, “Nobody likes me. It can only be my personality.”
Donald Trump: (22:59)
I said that jokingly, that is sarcastic. Nobody likes me, it must be my personality. I say it all the time. Nobody likes me, it must be my personality. I say it all the time, Lesley.
Lesley Stahl: (23:10)
Do you think that your tweets and your name calling are turning people off?
Donald Trump: (23:18)
No, I think I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t have social media, because the media is corrupt. In my opinion, the media is corrupt. But the media is fake, and frankly, if I didn’t have social media, I’d have no way of getting out my voice.
Lesley Stahl: (23:35)
You know what you told me a long time ago when I asked why you keep saying fake, with the media?
Donald Trump: (23:39)
Yeah.
Lesley Stahl: (23:39)
You said to me, “I say that because I need to discredit you, so that when you say negative things about me, no one will believe you.”
Donald Trump: (23:48)
I don’t have to discredit you.
Lesley Stahl: (23:48)
But that’s what you told me.
Donald Trump: (23:51)
You’ve discredited yourself.
Lesley Stahl: (23:52)
You told me that.
Donald Trump: (23:53)
Lesley, you’ve discredited yourself. When you say that you’re not going to cover Biden, you’re going to ask him what flavor ice cream he has, okay.
Lesley Stahl: (24:02)
That’s not me.
Donald Trump: (24:03)
Instead of, “Why did Hunter get three and a half million dollars from Moscow?” Instead of, “Why is an energy company paying your son $183,000 a month, or whatever they’re paying him?” And he has no experience in energy. You discredit yourself. I don’t have to discredit you.
Lesley Stahl: (24:21)
So this story about Hunter and his laptop, some repair shop found it, the source is Steve Bannon and Rudy Giuliani.
Donald Trump: (24:33)
I don’t know anything about that. I just know it’s a laptop and they haven’t-
Lesley Stahl: (24:35)
And you’re making this one of the hottest, most important issues [inaudible 00:24:40]
Donald Trump: (24:43)
I don’t know about the two gentleman you mentioned.
Lesley Stahl: (24:43)
It’s an important issue-
Donald Trump: (24:47)
It’s a very important issue to find out whether or not a man is corrupt, who’s running for president. Who’s accepted money from China, and from Ukraine, and from Russia. Yeah, I think that’s an important issue.
Lesley Stahl: (24:56)
All these things have been investigated and discredited.
Donald Trump: (24:58)
It’s incredible the way you can try and say this and sit there and look me in the eye and say it. He accepted money, his family, from Russia, from Ukraine, from China and from other places. His brother who didn’t have experience became a big builder in Iraq, without experience. Take a look at what’s going on, Lesley. And then you say that shouldn’t be discussed? It’s the biggest scandal out there, Lesley.
Lesley Stahl: (25:26)
And you think it’s the biggest issue to campaign on?
Donald Trump: (25:30)
I think it’s one of the biggest scandals I’ve ever seen, and you don’t cover it. You want to talk about-
Lesley Stahl: (25:36)
Well, because it can’t be verified.
Donald Trump: (25:37)
You want to talk about insignificant things.
Lesley Stahl: (25:40)
I’m telling you.
Donald Trump: (25:41)
Of course it can be verified. Excuse me, they found a laptop. Lesley, listen.
Lesley Stahl: (25:45)
It can’t be verified.
Donald Trump: (25:47)
What can’t be verified?
Lesley Stahl: (25:47)
The laptop.
Donald Trump: (25:48)
Why do you say that? Even the family hasn’t… The family on the laptop… He’s gone into hiding for five days, he’s gone into hiding.
Lesley Stahl: (25:59)
He’s preparing for your debate.
Donald Trump: (26:01)
Oh, it’s taking him five days to prepare? I doubt it, I doubt it. Okay, go ahead.
Lesley Stahl: (26:04)
All right. So let’s get back to the name calling, okay? And whether you think it’s turning people off.
Donald Trump: (26:10)
No, I think it is what it is.
Lesley Stahl: (26:13)
You call Biden stupid.
Donald Trump: (26:13)
Where are we sitting down? Where are we sitting?
Lesley Stahl: (26:15)
In the Rose Room.
Donald Trump: (26:15)
Of what?
Lesley Stahl: (26:15)
Of the White House.
Donald Trump: (26:18)
That’s right. How did I get here? How did I get here? We’re in the White House.
Lesley Stahl: (26:24)
What are you saying? Oh, by name calling?
Donald Trump: (26:25)
No, not the name calling. Doing the right thing, and we have a great record. I mean, we got hit by a pandemic, wasn’t my fault. But it was China’s fault. But Lesley, we’re in the White House. The press is very biased, very, very biased. And I’m not talking about [crosstalk 00:26:47] I’m talking about… No.
Lesley Stahl: (26:49)
Yes.
Donald Trump: (26:49)
No, I’m not. You’re discrediting yourself, Lesley.
Lesley Stahl: (26:51)
No, you are.
Donald Trump: (26:52)
Lesley, you’re discrediting yourself. When you don’t go after Biden with the corruption in the Biden family.
Lesley Stahl: (26:58)
[crosstalk 00:26:58] going after Biden? You’ve asked me five-
Donald Trump: (27:00)
When you don’t go after what happened in the Russia witch hunt, which turned out to be a total phony with no collusion, no collusion whatsoever. When you don’t do that, you discredit yourself. The press is highly discredited right now, you do know that? So you discredit yourself.
Lesley Stahl: (27:22)
Half the country loves you, but the other half doesn’t. And I’m wondering why-
Donald Trump: (27:30)
They were starting to, Lesley. When the economy was, just prior to the plague, they were starting to really like… We were all starting to like each other. It was coming together. There was going to be a lot of unification.
Lesley Stahl: (27:48)
I’ve heard you say that before. And I don’t think that we’re coming together.
Donald Trump: (27:51)
I’m just telling you-
Lesley Stahl: (27:52)
I think we’ve had disunity.
Donald Trump: (27:53)
People were calling me-
Lesley Stahl: (27:55)
Unfortunately.
Donald Trump: (27:56)
People were calling me about coming together, and then we got hit by the plague. And now we’re rebuilding it again. And it’s going well.
Lesley Stahl: (28:03)
And do you think that you do anything to unify the country?
Donald Trump: (28:08)
I do. I think I do unify the country, I think I will unify the country. It’s called success. When our country becomes, again-
Lesley Stahl: (28:14)
What about the rabid partisanship in the country? Do you take any responsibility for the country being divided against itself? Can you feel that?
Donald Trump: (28:26)
I’d like not to, but perhaps everybody has to take a little responsibility for it. But when people put out phony witch hunts, when they spy on your campaign, you have to fight back. And if you don’t fight back, you’re not sitting here very long. You go back home. You go back home to mommy.
Lesley Stahl: (28:52)
I’ve been listening to you, I don’t know how long we’ve been here, and it’s just attack, attack, attack, attack, attack.
Donald Trump: (28:55)
I don’t think so. It’s not attack.
Lesley Stahl: (28:56)
It is.
Donald Trump: (28:57)
It’s defense, it’s defense against attacks.
Lesley Stahl: (29:06)
No, you’ve been attacking.
Donald Trump: (29:06)
It’s defense against attacks.
Lesley Stahl: (29:06)
You are very oppressive.
Donald Trump: (29:06)
I don’t think so. I mean, I don’t view it that way. I’m defending myself and I’m defending the institution of the Presidency. Very important.
Lesley Stahl: (29:16)
Can you-
Donald Trump: (29:16)
Hi Mike, are you having a good time, Mike, watching? You know Mike, right? Our great Vice President.
Lesley Stahl: (29:23)
I do.
Donald Trump: (29:24)
You think she would ask questions like this of-
Lesley Stahl: (29:31)
Wow.
Donald Trump: (29:31)
No? I don’t think so, either. You think she would ask questions like this of Joe? I don’t think so.
Lesley Stahl: (29:32)
Can you characterize your supporters? Can you-
Donald Trump: (29:41)
Yeah, I think I can. People that love our country. And people that don’t want to see the stores get looted and burned down, and people that don’t want to see riots, and they don’t want to see anarchists. Yeah, I think I can. These are people that love our country, and they don’t like to see-
Lesley Stahl: (29:57)
But you don’t see-
Donald Trump: (29:58)
They don’t like to see policemen get shot and not be able to defend themselves.
Donald Trump: (30:03)
… didn’t get shot and not be able to defend themselves. They don’t like to see rioting in the middle of 5th Avenue or the middle of other streets in Portland or other places.
Donald Trump: (30:14)
And they like it when their President gets the endorsement of virtually every police group, and frankly, almost everybody having to do with law and order. Positive law and order. But you know what they are? They’re people that love our country more than anything else, and they’d like to see our country thrive.
Lesley Stahl: (30:35)
But do you think that when you hold rallies and encourage people to say lock her up-
Donald Trump: (30:41)
I don’t encourage them. They say it.
Lesley Stahl: (30:43)
And you [crosstalk 00:30:45].
Donald Trump: (30:47)
Hillary Clinton deleted, she deleted 33,000 emails after she got a subpoena from the United States Congress.
Lesley Stahl: (30:54)
Why does that-
Donald Trump: (30:54)
No, no. That’s illegal.
Lesley Stahl: (30:56)
I know, but [crosstalk 00:31:00].
Donald Trump: (30:56)
Why somebody doesn’t do something about it-
Lesley Stahl: (30:57)
But why is this still an issue?
Donald Trump: (31:00)
I think it’s an issue.
Lesley Stahl: (31:03)
[crosstalk 00:31:03] they’re not going to vote [inaudible 00:01:04]. She ran last time.
Donald Trump: (31:04)
To me it’s an issue. Excuse me, when they say lock her up, it’s not me. They say it. It starts, it ends up being-
Lesley Stahl: (31:08)
You encourage it.
Donald Trump: (31:10)
I don’t encourage it.
Lesley Stahl: (31:10)
Yes, you do.
Donald Trump: (31:11)
No. If I mention her name about something, they go crazy.
Lesley Stahl: (31:15)
Well, what about the Governor of Michigan who had this plot that people were going to, people I think-
Donald Trump: (31:22)
I don’t know anything about the plot but I can-
Lesley Stahl: (31:22)
I’m telling you about the plot.
Donald Trump: (31:23)
But I can tell you this, it was our justice department that is the one that’s helping her. My justice department, if you call it that,
Lesley Stahl: (31:32)
Yeah.
Donald Trump: (31:32)
It was our justice department that’s helping her. And people aren’t so… They’re not liking her so much because she’s got everybody locked down.
Donald Trump: (31:42)
Now we just won a Supreme Court where it’s unconstitutional. The only one she doesn’t have locked down is her husband who went sailing and did things that he wasn’t supposed to be doing.
Lesley Stahl: (31:51)
You are very powerful. And the people who love you, love you with passion. And if you go after somebody the way you’ve been going after her-
Donald Trump: (32:01)
I haven’t gone after her.
Lesley Stahl: (32:06)
Do you take it to heart and then plots and threats and the same with Dr.-
Donald Trump: (32:09)
I haven’t gone after her-
Lesley Stahl: (32:09)
You did. You did go after her.
Donald Trump: (32:10)
I’ve helped her.
Lesley Stahl: (32:11)
You did go after her.
Donald Trump: (32:11)
It was our justice department that’s helping her.
Lesley Stahl: (32:15)
You did go after her. You criticized her.
Donald Trump: (32:15)
Oh, I do criticize her, yeah.
Lesley Stahl: (32:16)
Well, that’s going after her.
Donald Trump: (32:17)
I think the way she locked down Michigan is a disgrace.
Lesley Stahl: (32:20)
But-
Donald Trump: (32:20)
The way she closed churches in Michigan is a disgrace. Yeah, I think it’s disgraceful what she’s done. I do.
Lesley Stahl: (32:27)
You [crosstalk 00:32:30]?
Donald Trump: (32:28)
By the way that’s other… Of course not. That’s other governors also. They happen to be Democrats and they’ve closed up their states and they’re causing a lot of problems with these lockdowns. Suicide, drugs, alcohol, a lot of bad things are happening and they should open up their states. Carefully, but they should open up their states.
Lesley Stahl: (32:51)
Well, when you say open up, you don’t say carefully. You say open up. You don’t have-
Donald Trump: (32:56)
Oh, I say carefully.
Lesley Stahl: (32:59)
… an aggressive program to say, open up with masks, open up with social distancing.
Donald Trump: (33:04)
The governors run their states.
Lesley Stahl: (33:06)
But the message comes from you.
Donald Trump: (33:06)
We help them a lot, but the governors run their states.
Lesley Stahl: (33:09)
You are-
Donald Trump: (33:10)
And the governors have to do what they have to do. But when they locked down Michigan, she’s doing a tremendous disservice.
Lesley Stahl: (33:16)
Well, what about you saying-
Donald Trump: (33:17)
Same thing with Pennsylvania. Same thing with North Carolina.
Lesley Stahl: (33:22)
What about you saying-
Donald Trump: (33:22)
These are Democrat governors and they’re doing a great disservice.
Lesley Stahl: (33:25)
What about you saying, let’s open up, but let’s wear masks. Let’s open up-
Donald Trump: (33:30)
I say-
Lesley Stahl: (33:30)
You don’t. You don’t.
Donald Trump: (33:32)
I say, I’m not against masks at all-
Lesley Stahl: (33:34)
But you’re not for them.
Donald Trump: (33:35)
Sure I am. Wear them. Wear them. But I also say socially distance. I say all the things, but you know what? Well, look, with you, nothing I said would be any good, Lesley.
Lesley Stahl: (33:47)
That’s not true, Mr. President.
Donald Trump: (33:48)
That’s okay.
Lesley Stahl: (33:48)
That’s not true.
Donald Trump: (33:50)
But in the meantime, we’re having a record comeback because if you look, we’re the fastest growing nation in the world after this pandemic by far. And we sunk less than any other nation, relatively speaking, and we’re coming back very strong. Very, very strong.
Lesley Stahl: (34:09)
So you don’t want to lock up Governor Whitmer but you want to lock up-
Donald Trump: (34:19)
When did I lock her up? I never said that.
Lesley Stahl: (34:20)
… the Bidens, you want to lock up Obama.
Donald Trump: (34:21)
When did I say lock up the Governor? I didn’t say, “Lock up the Governor.”
Lesley Stahl: (34:23)
All right, but you-
Donald Trump: (34:23)
Why would I lock her up? No, but why didn’t you say, “You don’t want to lock up the Governor?” Of course I don’t want to lock her up. Why would I lock her up?
Lesley Stahl: (34:30)
Because you were in front of a rally of people saying it, encouraging it.
Donald Trump: (34:34)
I never said it, Lesley. I never said, “Lock up the Governor.”
Lesley Stahl: (34:39)
So you don’t want to lock her up?
Donald Trump: (34:39)
Lesley, it’s such a vicious that you just said. I never said, “Lock up the Governor of Michigan.” I would never say that.
Lesley Stahl: (34:45)
Well, if you-
Donald Trump: (34:45)
Why would I say that?
Lesley Stahl: (34:46)
Well, what about the Bidens?
Donald Trump: (34:47)
She’s doing lockdowns.
Lesley Stahl: (34:49)
You want to lock up the Bidens?
Donald Trump: (34:50)
No, I don’t want to lock them up, but they certainly should be looked at.
Lesley Stahl: (34:53)
Obama? You want to lock up Obama?
Donald Trump: (34:55)
No, I don’t want to lock him up, but he spied on my campaign.
Lesley Stahl: (34:58)
Do you want to lock up-
Donald Trump: (34:58)
Obama and Biden spied on my campaign. Do you know what that is? You know what they did? Do you know how horrible it is, what they did?
Lesley Stahl: (35:05)
That’s never been verified.
Donald Trump: (35:08)
It’s been totally verified, Lesley.
Lesley Stahl: (35:09)
No. I’m sorry.
Donald Trump: (35:10)
You’ll find out, but it’s been totally verified.
Lesley Stahl: (35:14)
You’ve all but said that Attorney General Barr should go after President Obama. If you lose, you will be here, okay? If you lose. How would you feel if then President Biden went after you?
Donald Trump: (35:29)
Oh, he probably will because I think he’s a very dishonest guy and he probably will look for something. Probably will. We’ll see. But you know what? Attorney General Barr has been very nice. That’s all I can tell you. He’s been very nice. He’s been very respectful.
Lesley Stahl: (35:45)
[crosstalk 00:35:45] criticized him.
Donald Trump: (35:46)
No I didn’t criticize him, it’s just a different personality. They’re very lucky. They’re very lucky because the evidence is overwhelming and Attorney General Barr is a great gentleman. He’s a great gentleman. They are very lucky.
Donald Trump: (36:01)
No, I can’t tell you what’s going to happen. I don’t know-
Lesley Stahl: (36:04)
I know-
Donald Trump: (36:04)
Because I purposely like to stay out of it. You know what? I don’t like to get invol… I can if I want, but I don’t like to get involved.
Donald Trump: (36:11)
But I think they’ve been very, very lucky. Attorney General Barr is a gentleman.
Lesley Stahl: (36:16)
You know, I didn’t want to have this kind of interview.
Donald Trump: (36:16)
Of course you did.
Lesley Stahl: (36:18)
No, I didn’t.
Donald Trump: (36:18)
Of course you did.
Lesley Stahl: (36:18)
No, I didn’t.
Donald Trump: (36:23)
Well, then you brought up a lot of subjects-
Lesley Stahl: (36:25)
Well, I said-
Donald Trump: (36:25)
… that were inappropriately brought up.
Lesley Stahl: (36:25)
… I’m going to ask you tough questions.
Donald Trump: (36:27)
They were inappropriately brought up, right from the beginning. Your first question was, “This is going to be tough questions.”
Lesley Stahl: (36:34)
It is.
Donald Trump: (36:34)
Well, you set up the interview. It was your first statement was-
Lesley Stahl: (36:37)
You’re the President. Don’t you think you should be accountable to the American people?
Donald Trump: (36:41)
Excuse me, no, no. Listen, your first statement to me, “This is going to be tough questions.” Well, I don’t mind that. When you set up the interview, you didn’t say that. You said, oh, let’s have a lovely interview. And here’s what I do say.
Lesley Stahl: (36:53)
So why-
Donald Trump: (36:53)
You don’t ask Joe Biden. I saw your interview with Joe. The interview with Joe. It was a joke. The interview, 60 Minutes. I see Joe Biden giving softball after softball. I’ve seen all of his interviews. He’s never been asked a question that’s hard-
Lesley Stahl: (37:11)
Okay, but, forget him for a minute.
Donald Trump: (37:13)
No, but you-
Lesley Stahl: (37:13)
You’re President. You’re president-
Donald Trump: (37:13)
… start with me. Excuse me, Lesley. You started with me. Your first statement was, “Are you ready for tough questions?”
Lesley Stahl: (37:21)
I did.
Donald Trump: (37:22)
That’s no way to talk. That’s no way to talk.
Speaker 3: (37:25)
Lesley, one second. This is the first warning. I think we have five minutes until we have the Vice President step in, is that about right?
Donald Trump: (37:34)
Well, I think we have enough. Really, we have enough.
Speaker 4: (37:38)
I think we’re waiting for the Vice President now.
Donald Trump: (37:40)
I think we have enough of an interview here, okay? That’s enough. Let’s go. Let’s go. Let’s go meet for two seconds, okay? Thanks. I’ll see you later. Thanks.